| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Ahn Fyuh Wi Dizayah" |
| Date: |
17 Jan 2004 04:42:30 PM |
| Object: |
Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3384067.stm
Doom warnings sound more loudly
By Alex Kirby
Our environment correspondent considers why warnings about the state of the
planet are becoming more insistent
The strains are showing
For the doom merchants amongst us, 2004 showed its fearsome teeth in a
cracking start before it was even 10 days old.
On 7 January a report in the journal Nature said climate change could speed
a million land-based species towards extinction within the next 50 years.
The next day the Worldwatch Institute declared modern lifestyles were bad
for us and unsustainable for the planet.
The UK Government's chief scientist now says climate change is a far worse
danger than international terrorism.
A triple onslaught like that defies anyone to head into the new year feeling
even slightly positive about the human condition.
Yet life goes on, and most of us worry more about paying the Christmas bills
than about a world bereft of a quarter of its animals and plants.
Devout sceptics
We believe the scientists: we simply do not connect their findings to our
lives, our families, ourselves even.
Many species' prospects are dim
Some of us just refuse to react, blaming the messengers for their message
and accusing the scientists of scaremongering.
But (at the risk of tempting fate) my inbox has been blessedly much freer
recently of flat-earthers and foam-flecked contrarians.
Most of us are convinced by the message - yet still we go on as if we had
not a care in the world.
But whether because of climate change or not, we are already losing species
so fast that biologists talk of the Earth undergoing its sixth great
extinction since the Big Bang. We are losing species we do not know exist,
which could be vital to our survival.
A few years ago, when the world's gross national product was worth about $18
trillion, the value of Nature's goods and services to us was estimated at
$33 trillion.
Similarly, the evidence that human activities are intensifying natural
climate change is impressive, and hardening. The world really is changing,
almost imperceptibly, but in line with what science says will happen.
Slow to show
I know there are sincere people who regard both the global extinction rate
and the changing climate as entirely natural developments which need not
concern us.
But I met a man recently who told me how he could see the effects of the
warmer climate in his local park in Birkenhead, in the north of England.
Icecores hold many secrets
I talked to another whose research has convinced him there may be only
20,000 lions left in the whole of Africa.
The trouble with imperceptible change is that for a long time it has
virtually no impact, certainly not on the political timescale of four or
five years. And politicians respond (often) to what they think matters to
voters.
Yet the record preserved in cores drilled out of the Greenland icecap shows
climate change can be very rapid indeed, flipping from one stable state to
another in a few decades.
It is not fanciful to envisage our children living in a Britain where the
Gulf Stream has ceased to flow, and where climate change means winters as
cold as northern Canada's.
Unstoppable force
Perhaps it will take some sudden, savage reversal of Nature to make us sit
up and take notice.
But we can change just as unpredictably as Nature can. Who predicted the
peaceful end of apartheid South Africa, the melting of the Soviet Union?
When enough of us have changed imperceptibly enough to start acting on the
warnings we are hearing, the resulting critical mass will cause some very
rapid change of its own.
--
Pro-War religious fanatics in government:
Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Lieberman, Ridge, Cheney and
Bush
http://www.geocities.com/g848138/
.
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| User: "militiaguy" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
17 Jan 2004 05:05:16 PM |
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"Ahn Fyuh Wi Dizayah" <ahn-fyuh-wi-dizayah@thegreatslashtubitch.org> wrote
in message news:qTiOb.2963$GV.797@fe2.texas.rr.com...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
----
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3384067.stm
Doom warnings sound more loudly
By Alex Kirby
Our environment correspondent considers why warnings about the state of
the
planet are becoming more insistent
The strains are showing
For the doom merchants amongst us, 2004 showed its fearsome teeth in a
cracking start before it was even 10 days old.
On 7 January a report in the journal Nature said climate change could
speed
a million land-based species towards extinction <snip>
.
So I should believe the climate is changing and should trust science to
prove it when they can't accurately predict the weather for even a week ?
Who is to blame for the last few climate changes?
"Climate is what you expect...weather is what you get"
.
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| User: "Roger Coppock" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
18 Jan 2004 11:42:22 AM |
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militiaguy wrote:
So I should believe the climate is changing and should trust science to
prove it when they can't accurately predict the weather for even a week ?
Your statement shows that you don't understand the difference between
weather and climate, Militiaguy. Weather is the local state of the
atmosphere at a given time. Climate is the global tendency of
atmosphere over a long period of time. I can predict with very good
accuracy that pennies when fairly flipped will fall heads up about
half of the time. That is analogous to climate. I can't predict what
a penny on a toss will show with any accuracy. That's like weather.
Climate models have correctly predicted global warming for the last
two decades now. All published climate models, about 100 of them,
predict warming with rising greenhouse gas concentrations.
--
"One who joyfully guards his mind
And fears his own confusion
Can not fall.
He has found his way to peace."
-- Buddha, in the "Pali Dhammapada,"
~5th century BCE
-.-. --.- Roger Coppock (rcoppock@adnc.com)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "militiaguy" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
18 Jan 2004 02:41:50 PM |
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"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote in message
news:400AC577.45BCC1A3@adnc.com...
militiaguy wrote:
So I should believe the climate is changing and should trust science to
prove it when they can't accurately predict the weather for even a week
?
Your statement shows that you don't understand the difference between
weather and climate, Militiaguy. Weather is the local state of the
atmosphere at a given time. Climate is the global tendency of
atmosphere over a long period of time. I can predict with very good
accuracy that pennies when fairly flipped will fall heads up about
half of the time. That is analogous to climate. I can't predict what
a penny on a toss will show with any accuracy. That's like weather.
Climate models have correctly predicted global warming for the last
two decades now. All published climate models, about 100 of them,
predict warming with rising greenhouse gas concentrations.
All of them? No debate or disagreement?
My statement was about the flaw of scientific prediction and how is changes
depending on who is doing the prediction.
Consider this one...
http://muller.lbl.gov/TRessays/23-MedievalGlobalWarming.html
.
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| User: "Roger Coppock" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
18 Jan 2004 08:37:41 PM |
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militiaguy wrote:
"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote in message
news:400AC577.45BCC1A3@adnc.com...
militiaguy wrote:
So I should believe the climate is changing and should trust science to
prove it when they can't accurately predict the weather for even a week
?
Your statement shows that you don't understand the difference between
weather and climate, Militiaguy. Weather is the local state of the
atmosphere at a given time. Climate is the global tendency of
atmosphere over a long period of time. I can predict with very good
accuracy that pennies when fairly flipped will fall heads up about
half of the time. That is analogous to climate. I can't predict what
a penny on a toss will show with any accuracy. That's like weather.
Climate models have correctly predicted global warming for the last
two decades now. All published climate models, about 100 of them,
predict warming with rising greenhouse gas concentrations.
All of them? No debate or disagreement?
Yes, ALL of them. ALL published climate models, from the simplest
1 dimensional box model to the most advanced coupled model, predict
warming with rising greenhouse gas concentrations. The "radiative
forcing" theory behind Global Warming is quite accepted 100+ year
old science, something you will find in textbooks. Please read
this chapter from an atmospheric chemistry textbook:
http://www.acd.ucar.edu/education/textbook/ch15/index.html
My statement was about the flaw of scientific prediction and how is changes
depending on who is doing the prediction.
Consider this one...
http://muller.lbl.gov/TRessays/23-MedievalGlobalWarming.html
McIntyre and McKitrick have been totally debunked. Mann's reconstruction
of the climate of the recent past, and the about a dozen confirming papers,
all stand. Please see:
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/EandEPaperProblem.pdf
Over on the alt.global-warming newsgroup, we've picked apart
both papers, and found M&M's mistakes. The scientific literature
publishes about 300 papers on global warming a year, now. They
are running better than 99% pro anthropogenic greenhouse gas
global warming. You might as well try to claim that things fall
up than argue that the warming of the last three decades was not
caused by man's greenhouse gas emissions, CO2 mostly, CH4, N20,
O3, and CFCs too. Together they currently trap 2.7 +- .5 W/m*m,
or about 1200 megatons of energy every hour 24/7/52/365. What
is most alarming is that increasing greenhouse gas concentrations
are increasing the heat trapping by about .3 W/m*m per decade, an
extra 130 megatons per hour every ten years. Please see:
http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/pns/current_ghg.html
--
"One who joyfully guards his mind
And fears his own confusion
Can not fall.
He has found his way to peace."
-- Buddha, in the "Pali Dhammapada,"
~5th century BCE
-.-. --.- Roger Coppock (rcoppock@adnc.com)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "militiaguy" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
18 Jan 2004 09:05:31 PM |
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"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote in message
news:400B4298.CDF68DB9@adnc.com...
militiaguy wrote:
"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote in message
news:400AC577.45BCC1A3@adnc.com...
militiaguy wrote:
So I should believe the climate is changing and should trust science
to
prove it when they can't accurately predict the weather for even a
week
?<snip>
. You might as well try to claim that things fall
up than argue that the warming of the last three decades was not
caused by man's greenhouse gas emissions,
<snip>
Very well may be some warming, but I am still not convinced that it is
soley due to man.
What caused the previous warmings and coolings? You know....the ones
before man?
www.geocities.com/beaver_militia/
.
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| User: "militiaguy" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
18 Jan 2004 09:19:32 PM |
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"militiaguy" <beaver_militia@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pMHOb.5375$5M.134324@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote in message
news:400B4298.CDF68DB9@adnc.com...
militiaguy wrote:
"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote in message
news:400AC577.45BCC1A3@adnc.com...
militiaguy wrote:
Durn....heres another disagreement.....
http://www.aim.org/publications/media_monitor/2004/01/12.html
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| User: "militiaguy" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
18 Jan 2004 09:29:07 PM |
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"militiaguy" <beaver_militia@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yZHOb.5376$5M.134266@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
"militiaguy" <beaver_militia@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pMHOb.5375$5M.134324@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote in message
news:400B4298.CDF68DB9@adnc.com...
militiaguy wrote:
"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote in message
news:400AC577.45BCC1A3@adnc.com...
militiaguy wrote:
Durn....heres another disagreement.....
http://www.aim.org/publications/media_monitor/2004/01/12.html
And now this....
Global warming theory suggests that the troposphere will warm first and
faster than the surface of the earth. Yet, according to the Nature magazine,
highly accurate satellite temperatures of the troposphere indicate no
warming since before 1980. Furthermore, scientists performed a 40 year
comprehensive analysis of artic temperatures where once again global warming
theory predicts Polar Regions to heat up more rapidly. The scientists
actually detected cooling trends over the entire Artic Ocean. Similarly, a
study performed by the California Institute of Technology's Jet Propulsion
Laboratory found that the ice sheets of Antarctica, far from melting, are
actually expanding by billions of tons of ice each year. Ironically, the
same environmentalist groups that advocate the danger of global warming now
were up in arms 15 years ago proclaiming the danger of global freezing as
suggested in the book, "The Cooling." Now that the past had debunked the
myth of global warming, do the catastrophic computer predictions of future
climate change still hold any credibility? With today's technology, not a
chance. Computer models leave out various major climate mechanisms,
including clouds. Especially, there appears to be a natural heat vent
phenomenon above the South Pacific which self regulates the earth's
temperature that was conveniently left of the computer equations. The fact
is that the global warming scare has not been proved by historical trends
and the scientific computer models are not advanced enough to be even
remotely accurate. Even if global warming were to happen, it is no reason
for alarm. The earth's temperature fluctuates naturally as the climate rises
and lowers. This cycle has been continuing since the beginning of time.
Those doomsday scenarios of killer heat waves, devastating hurricanes, and
global flooding are scary like the boogieman but no more real.
I know its irritating but ya have to look at all the stuff, not just what ya
like...
.
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| User: "Mark Fox" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
19 Jan 2004 07:12:37 AM |
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"militiaguy" <beaver_militia@yahoo.com> wrote
"militiaguy" <beaver_militia@yahoo.com> wrote
"militiaguy" <beaver_militia@yahoo.com> wrote
"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote
militiaguy wrote:
"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote
militiaguy wrote:
Durn....here's another disagreement.....
http://www.aim.org/publications/media_monitor/2004/01/12.html
And now this....
Global warming theory suggests that the troposphere will warm first and
faster than the surface of the earth. Yet, according to the Nature magazine,
highly accurate satellite temperatures of the troposphere indicate no
warming since before 1980. Furthermore, scientists performed a 40 year
comprehensive analysis of artic temperatures where once again global warming
theory predicts Polar Regions to heat up more rapidly. The scientists
actually detected cooling trends over the entire Artic Ocean. Similarly, a
study performed by the California Institute of Technology's Jet Propulsion
Laboratory found that the ice sheets of Antarctica, far from melting, are
actually expanding by billions of tons of ice each year. Ironically, the
same environmentalist groups that advocate the danger of global warming now
were up in arms 15 years ago proclaiming the danger of global freezing as
suggested in the book, "The Cooling." Now that the past had debunked the
myth of global warming, do the catastrophic computer predictions of future
climate change still hold any credibility? With today's technology, not a
chance. Computer models leave out various major climate mechanisms,
including clouds. Especially, there appears to be a natural heat vent
phenomenon above the South Pacific which self regulates the earth's
temperature that was conveniently left of the computer equations. The fact
is that the global warming scare has not been proved by historical trends
and the scientific computer models are not advanced enough to be even
remotely accurate. Even if global warming were to happen, it is no reason
for alarm. The earth's temperature fluctuates naturally as the climate rises
and lowers. This cycle has been continuing since the beginning of time.
Those doomsday scenarios of killer heat waves, devastating hurricanes, and
global flooding are scary like the boogieman but no more real.
I know its irritating but ya have to look at all the stuff, not just what ya
like...
Yea but you have to admit that if the "fringe science loonies" looked
at ALL THE FACTS they might not get as big an increase in their
research grants next year. Nothing pumps up a budget as fast as
fear! Follow the money trail!!
Now that we have had our fun, it must be said that all reasonable
people of science agree that the possibility of man made pollution
causing global warming is a valid concern and the phenomenon should be
further monitored, studied and understood.
.
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| User: "militiaguy" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
19 Jan 2004 04:31:13 PM |
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"Mark Fox" <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a258afb5.0401190512.701d8cc6@posting.google.com...
"militiaguy" <beaver_militia@yahoo.com> wrote
"militiaguy" <beaver_militia@yahoo.com> wrote
"militiaguy" <beaver_militia@yahoo.com> wrote
"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote
militiaguy wrote:
"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote
militiaguy wrote:
Durn....here's another disagreement.....
<snip>
Now that we have had our fun, it must be said that all reasonable
people of science agree that the possibility of man made pollution
causing global warming is a valid concern and the phenomenon should be
further monitored, studied and understood.
You know if ya keep up this logic you will be targeted and probably barred
from this newsgroup;)
On the serious side, as for global warming, I agree it needs further
monitoring. I'm just not ready to join the "blame man first" crowd.
"What kind of country has this become when a fella can't drink a few beers
and go for a ride in the country and shoot a few road signs?"
(Mr Peachy 1991, upon gittin caught by the cops after havin a few beers,
goin for a drive and shootin at road signs )
.
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| User: "Roger Coppock" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
19 Jan 2004 02:39:08 PM |
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militiaguy wrote:
Very well may be some warming, but I am still not convinced that it is
soley due to man.
To see how the various forcings have changed over time please see
this graph from NASA: http://www.giss.nasa.gov/data/si2000/
Can you see how the line marked GHGs has outgrown all others?
Can you also see that it is growing at a much faster rate?
Note that anthropogenic greenhouse forcing easily dominates all
other potential causes of the observed warming now. Please see:
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-3.htm
and
ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/gcmoutput/crowley2000/forc-total-4_12_01.txt
--
"One who joyfully guards his mind
And fears his own confusion
Can not fall.
He has found his way to peace."
-- Buddha, in the "Pali Dhammapada,"
~5th century BCE
-.-. --.- Roger Coppock (rcoppock@adnc.com)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "W" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
19 Jan 2004 08:27:44 AM |
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Roger Coppock <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote in message news:<400AC577.45BCC1A3@adnc.com>...
militiaguy wrote:
So I should believe the climate is changing and should trust science to
prove it when they can't accurately predict the weather for even a week ?
Your statement shows that you don't understand the difference between
weather and climate, Militiaguy. Weather is the local state of the
atmosphere at a given time. Climate is the global tendency of
atmosphere over a long period of time. I can predict with very good
accuracy that pennies when fairly flipped will fall heads up about
half of the time. That is analogous to climate. I can't predict what
a penny on a toss will show with any accuracy. That's like weather.
Climate models have correctly predicted global warming for the last
two decades now. All published climate models, about 100 of them,
predict warming with rising greenhouse gas concentrations.
I'd rather we all took seriously the threat of man made global warming
( green house effect, ozone depletion & the less talked about global
dimming ) & be proved wrong in a few decades than smugly sit back &
say it's all lies & be proved wrong in a few decades when it's
irrevesible.
W
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| User: "Captain Compassion" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
19 Jan 2004 07:01:34 PM |
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On 19 Jan 2004 06:27:44 -0800, (W) wrote:
Roger Coppock <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote in message news:<400AC577.45BCC1A3@adnc.com>...
militiaguy wrote:
So I should believe the climate is changing and should trust science to
prove it when they can't accurately predict the weather for even a week ?
Your statement shows that you don't understand the difference between
weather and climate, Militiaguy. Weather is the local state of the
atmosphere at a given time. Climate is the global tendency of
atmosphere over a long period of time. I can predict with very good
accuracy that pennies when fairly flipped will fall heads up about
half of the time. That is analogous to climate. I can't predict what
a penny on a toss will show with any accuracy. That's like weather.
Climate models have correctly predicted global warming for the last
two decades now. All published climate models, about 100 of them,
predict warming with rising greenhouse gas concentrations.
I'd rather we all took seriously the threat of man made global warming
( green house effect, ozone depletion & the less talked about global
dimming ) & be proved wrong in a few decades than smugly sit back &
say it's all lies & be proved wrong in a few decades when it's
irrevesible.
According to their own science global warming is not reversable it can
only be slowed down a little.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I suspect that the problem is not with those that believe that there is a
heaven above but with those that believe that there can be a heaven here
on earth." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
"Madmen reason rightly from the wrong premisis" -- Locke
"There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other
is wrong, but the middle is always evil." -- Ayn Rand
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate -- William of Occam
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
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| User: "Roger Coppock" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
20 Jan 2004 02:17:47 AM |
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Captain Compassion wrote:
According to their own science global warming is not reversable it can
only be slowed down a little.
Half a century ago, people said the same thing about Fascism.
Fortunately, the world's free people controlled the defeatists
among them. In many cases that control was achieved by
locking-up the nay sayers for the duration. Could you imagine
what would happen to someone who on December 8, 1941 said that
halting trade with Japan will hurt the economy and destroy jobs?
There is nothing in the any scientific literature that I have
read which says that global warming is inevitable.
--
"One who joyfully guards his mind
And fears his own confusion
Can not fall.
He has found his way to peace."
-- Buddha, in the "Pali Dhammapada,"
~5th century BCE
-.-. --.- Roger Coppock (rcoppock@adnc.com)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "Captain Compassion" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
20 Jan 2004 10:15:51 AM |
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 00:17:47 -0800, Roger Coppock <rcoppock@adnc.com>
wrote:
Captain Compassion wrote:
According to their own science global warming is not reversable it can
only be slowed down a little.
Half a century ago, people said the same thing about Fascism.
Fortunately, the world's free people controlled the defeatists
among them. In many cases that control was achieved by
locking-up the nay sayers for the duration. Could you imagine
what would happen to someone who on December 8, 1941 said that
halting trade with Japan will hurt the economy and destroy jobs?
There is nothing in the any scientific literature that I have
read which says that global warming is inevitable.
There is nothing the climatological history of the world that would
lead anyone to believe that the climate will remain constant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I suspect that the problem is not with those that believe that there is a
heaven above but with those that believe that there can be a heaven here
on earth." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
"Madmen reason rightly from the wrong premisis" -- Locke
"There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other
is wrong, but the middle is always evil." -- Ayn Rand
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate -- William of Occam
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
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| User: "W" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
21 Jan 2004 05:35:32 PM |
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(Captain Compassion) wrote in message
There is nothing in the any scientific literature that I have
read which says that global warming is inevitable.
There is nothing the climatological history of the world that would
lead anyone to believe that the climate will remain constant.
LIKE I SAID, wouldn't you rather do something NOW & be proved wrong
than do nothing, continue on our merry poluting way & be shown in 30
years that this could have been stopped 10 or 20 years before?!
Actually all the literature to date says global warming can be slowed
down & stopped, no literature I've seen ( only maybe the 'literature'
at right wing sites! ) says its irreversible. It will be in a few
decades though, what system we have left will just crumble under the
weight of what we're producing now.
W
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| User: "Captain Compassion" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
21 Jan 2004 08:27:16 PM |
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On 21 Jan 2004 15:35:32 -0800, (W) wrote:
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net (Captain Compassion) wrote in message
There is nothing in the any scientific literature that I have
read which says that global warming is inevitable.
There is nothing the climatological history of the world that would
lead anyone to believe that the climate will remain constant.
LIKE I SAID, wouldn't you rather do something NOW & be proved wrong
than do nothing, continue on our merry poluting way & be shown in 30
years that this could have been stopped 10 or 20 years before?!
The Koyto folks aren't asking me personally to volintarily do
something. They are demanding that governments and their people do
something.
Actually all the literature to date says global warming can be slowed
down & stopped, no literature I've seen ( only maybe the 'literature'
at right wing sites! ) says its irreversible. It will be in a few
decades though, what system we have left will just crumble under the
weight of what we're producing now.
Here's the theory in a nutshell:
From all sources approximately 800 billion tons C02 are produced
annually. Of those 6 billion tons are from human sources. This is .7%
of the total. CO2 concentrations have increased from 270 ppm to 350
ppm in the last century.
Global warming theory holds that the earth has the ability to handle
the 794 billion tons of CO2 annually from natural sources but all 6
billion tons from man made (anthropocentric) sources are in excess of
the the earths natural capicity and lead to CO2 buildup and an
associated increase in global temperature and climatic catastrophe.
1. If there is a 10% decrease in antthropocentric then that only slows
the increase and puts off the end of the world.
2. If the antropocentric CO2 is reduced to zero (extinction of man)
then the concentration of CO2 does not increase but the additional CO2
in the atmosphere persists causing global warming at current levels.
(sic)
So according to Global warming theory we are all ready screwed. Even
the most draconian cuts in CO2 emissions can mearly put off doom to
some uncertain future date.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I suspect that the problem is not with those that believe that there is a
heaven above but with those that believe that there can be a heaven here
on earth." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
"Madmen reason rightly from the wrong premisis" -- Locke
"There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other
is wrong, but the middle is always evil." -- Ayn Rand
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate -- William of Occam
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
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| User: "W" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
24 Jan 2004 12:34:03 AM |
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(Captain Compassion) wrote in message news:<400f28ec.1783264@news.verizon.net>...
On 21 Jan 2004 15:35:32 -0800, (W) wrote:
(Captain Compassion) wrote in message
There is nothing in the any scientific literature that I have
read which says that global warming is inevitable.
There is nothing the climatological history of the world that would
lead anyone to believe that the climate will remain constant.
LIKE I SAID, wouldn't you rather do something NOW & be proved wrong
than do nothing, continue on our merry poluting way & be shown in 30
years that this could have been stopped 10 or 20 years before?!
The Koyto folks aren't asking me personally to volintarily do
something. They are demanding that governments and their people do
something.
Actually all the literature to date says global warming can be slowed
down & stopped, no literature I've seen ( only maybe the 'literature'
at right wing sites! ) says its irreversible. It will be in a few
decades though, what system we have left will just crumble under the
weight of what we're producing now.
Here's the theory in a nutshell:
From all sources approximately 800 billion tons C02 are produced
annually. Of those 6 billion tons are from human sources. This is .7%
of the total. CO2 concentrations have increased from 270 ppm to 350
ppm in the last century.
Global warming theory holds that the earth has the ability to handle
the 794 billion tons of CO2 annually from natural sources but all 6
billion tons from man made (anthropocentric) sources are in excess of
the the earths natural capicity and lead to CO2 buildup and an
associated increase in global temperature and climatic catastrophe.
1. If there is a 10% decrease in antthropocentric then that only slows
the increase and puts off the end of the world.
2. If the antropocentric CO2 is reduced to zero (extinction of man)
then the concentration of CO2 does not increase but the additional CO2
in the atmosphere persists causing global warming at current levels.
(sic)
So according to Global warming theory we are all ready screwed. Even
the most draconian cuts in CO2 emissions can mearly put off doom to
some uncertain future date.
I kind of like the idea of a stay of execution though!
W
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| User: "Roger Coppock" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
21 Jan 2004 10:14:36 PM |
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Captain Compassion wrote:
Here's the theory in a nutshell:
From all sources approximately 800 billion tons C02 are produced
annually. Of those 6 billion tons are from human sources. This is .7%
of the total. CO2 concentrations have increased from 270 ppm to 350
280 370
ppm in the last century.
Global warming theory holds that the earth has the ability to handle
the 794 billion tons of CO2 annually from natural sources but all 6
billion tons from man made (anthropocentric) sources are in excess of
anthropoGENIC
the the earths natural capicity and lead to CO2 buildup and an
There are other anthropoGENIC greenhouse gasses: CH4, N2O, O3,
and CFCs
associated increase in global temperature and climatic catastrophe.
1. If there is a 10% decrease in antthropocentric then that only slows
the increase and puts off the end of the world.
Mainstream science does not predict the end of the world by greenhouse gasses.
2. If the antropocentric CO2 is reduced to zero (extinction of man)
then the concentration of CO2 does not increase but the additional CO2
in the atmosphere persists causing global warming at current levels.
for a century or two.
(sic)
So according to Global warming theory we are all ready screwed. Even
the most draconian cuts in CO2 emissions can mearly put off doom to
some uncertain future date.
NOPE! Although the exact amount is debated, cuts in anthropogenic
greenhouse gases emissions or increases in natural sequestration of
40% to 70% will stabilize the global warming. Cuts above that will
reverse it.
If you want better information on the global warming issue,
I would start here:
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/010.htm
--
"One who joyfully guards his mind
And fears his own confusion
Can not fall.
He has found his way to peace."
-- Buddha, in the "Pali Dhammapada,"
~5th century BCE
-.-. --.- Roger Coppock (rcoppock@adnc.com)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "Captain Compassion" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
21 Jan 2004 11:03:38 PM |
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:14:36 -0800, Roger Coppock <rcoppock@adnc.com>
wrote:
Captain Compassion wrote:
Here's the theory in a nutshell:
From all sources approximately 800 billion tons C02 are produced
annually. Of those 6 billion tons are from human sources. This is .7%
of the total. CO2 concentrations have increased from 270 ppm to 350
280 370
ppm in the last century.
Global warming theory holds that the earth has the ability to handle
the 794 billion tons of CO2 annually from natural sources but all 6
billion tons from man made (anthropocentric) sources are in excess of
anthropoGENIC
the the earths natural capicity and lead to CO2 buildup and an
There are other anthropoGENIC greenhouse gasses: CH4, N2O, O3,
and CFCs
associated increase in global temperature and climatic catastrophe.
1. If there is a 10% decrease in antthropocentric then that only slows
the increase and puts off the end of the world.
Mainstream science does not predict the end of the world by greenhouse gasses.
2. If the antropocentric CO2 is reduced to zero (extinction of man)
then the concentration of CO2 does not increase but the additional CO2
in the atmosphere persists causing global warming at current levels.
for a century or two.
(sic)
So according to Global warming theory we are all ready screwed. Even
the most draconian cuts in CO2 emissions can mearly put off doom to
some uncertain future date.
NOPE! Although the exact amount is debated, cuts in anthropogenic
greenhouse gases emissions or increases in natural sequestration of
40% to 70% will stabilize the global warming. Cuts above that will
reverse it.
Most of the CO2 is sequestered in the ocean and biosphere how would
you increase this?
If you want better information on the global warming issue,
I would start here:
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/010.htm
Thank you but no. I do have a problem with two of the basic premisises
of Global warming theory.
1. That there is a measurable positive relationship between CO2 and
global warming.
2. That the current warming trend can be attributed to something other
then natural climatic cycles.
--
"One who joyfully guards his mind
And fears his own confusion
Can not fall.
He has found his way to peace."
-- Buddha, in the "Pali Dhammapada,"
~5th century BCE
-.-. --.- Roger Coppock (rcoppock@adnc.com)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I suspect that the problem is not with those that believe that there is a
heaven above but with those that believe that there can be a heaven here
on earth." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
"Madmen reason rightly from the wrong premisis" -- Locke
"There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other
is wrong, but the middle is always evil." -- Ayn Rand
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate -- William of Occam
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
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| User: "Mark Fox" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
19 Jan 2004 07:06:17 AM |
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Roger Coppock <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote...
militiaguy wrote:
So I should believe the climate is changing and should trust science to
prove it when they can't accurately predict the weather for even a week ?
Your statement shows that you don't understand the difference between
weather and climate, Militiaguy. Weather is the local state of the
atmosphere at a given time. Climate is the global tendency of
atmosphere over a long period of time. I can predict with very good
accuracy that pennies when fairly flipped will fall heads up about
half of the time. That is analogous to climate. I can't predict what
a penny on a toss will show with any accuracy. That's like weather.
Climate models have correctly predicted global warming for the last
two decades now. All published climate models, about 100 of them,
predict warming with rising greenhouse gas concentrations.
Climate models, about 100 of them, have also predicted warming for the
last 8,000 years as we come out of the last ice age. Try to pay
attention to ALL THE FACTS, would ya?
.
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| User: "Captain Compassion" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
17 Jan 2004 10:45:07 PM |
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On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:42:30 GMT, "Ahn Fyuh Wi Dizayah"
<ahn-fyuh-wi-dizayah@thegreatslashtubitch.org> wrote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3384067.stm
Doom warnings sound more loudly
By Alex Kirby
Our environment correspondent considers why warnings about the state of the
planet are becoming more insistent
The strains are showing
For the doom merchants amongst us, 2004 showed its fearsome teeth in a
cracking start before it was even 10 days old.
On 7 January a report in the journal Nature said climate change could speed
a million land-based species towards extinction within the next 50 years.
The next day the Worldwatch Institute declared modern lifestyles were bad
for us and unsustainable for the planet.
The UK Government's chief scientist now says climate change is a far worse
danger than international terrorism.
A triple onslaught like that defies anyone to head into the new year feeling
even slightly positive about the human condition.
Yet life goes on, and most of us worry more about paying the Christmas bills
than about a world bereft of a quarter of its animals and plants.
Devout sceptics
We believe the scientists: we simply do not connect their findings to our
lives, our families, ourselves even.
Many species' prospects are dim
Some of us just refuse to react, blaming the messengers for their message
and accusing the scientists of scaremongering.
But (at the risk of tempting fate) my inbox has been blessedly much freer
recently of flat-earthers and foam-flecked contrarians.
Most of us are convinced by the message - yet still we go on as if we had
not a care in the world.
But whether because of climate change or not, we are already losing species
so fast that biologists talk of the Earth undergoing its sixth great
extinction since the Big Bang. We are losing species we do not know exist,
which could be vital to our survival.
A few years ago, when the world's gross national product was worth about $18
trillion, the value of Nature's goods and services to us was estimated at
$33 trillion.
Similarly, the evidence that human activities are intensifying natural
climate change is impressive, and hardening. The world really is changing,
almost imperceptibly, but in line with what science says will happen.
Slow to show
I know there are sincere people who regard both the global extinction rate
and the changing climate as entirely natural developments which need not
concern us.
But I met a man recently who told me how he could see the effects of the
warmer climate in his local park in Birkenhead, in the north of England.
Icecores hold many secrets
I talked to another whose research has convinced him there may be only
20,000 lions left in the whole of Africa.
The trouble with imperceptible change is that for a long time it has
virtually no impact, certainly not on the political timescale of four or
five years. And politicians respond (often) to what they think matters to
voters.
Yet the record preserved in cores drilled out of the Greenland icecap shows
climate change can be very rapid indeed, flipping from one stable state to
another in a few decades.
It is not fanciful to envisage our children living in a Britain where the
Gulf Stream has ceased to flow, and where climate change means winters as
cold as northern Canada's.
Unstoppable force
Perhaps it will take some sudden, savage reversal of Nature to make us sit
up and take notice.
But we can change just as unpredictably as Nature can. Who predicted the
peaceful end of apartheid South Africa, the melting of the Soviet Union?
When enough of us have changed imperceptibly enough to start acting on the
warnings we are hearing, the resulting critical mass will cause some very
rapid change of its own.
--
Pro-War religious fanatics in government:
Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Lieberman, Ridge, Cheney and
Bush
http://www.geocities.com/g848138/
Mr. Kirby needs a long robe, some sandals and a sign. We have lots of
these folks marching around in LA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I suspect that the problem is not with those that believe that there is a
heaven above but with those that believe that there can be a heaven here
on earth." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
"Madmen reason rightly from the wrong premisis" -- Locke
"There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other
is wrong, but the middle is always evil." -- Ayn Rand
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate -- William of Occam
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Doom warnings sound more loudly. |
17 Jan 2004 05:55:13 PM |
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how the topic of global warming is shaping-up in the newsgroups [updated January 16]
__________________________________________________________________________
[1] sci.environment
[2] alt.politics.greens
[3] alt.global-warming
[4] alt.politics.bush
__________________________________________________________________________
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