| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"MikeH" |
| Date: |
10 Feb 2004 05:21:25 PM |
| Object: |
Easter - Is it Christian? |
The name Easter, used in many lands, is not found in the Bible. The
book Medieval Holidays and Festivals tells us that "the holiday is
named after the pagan Goddess of the Dawn and of Spring, Eostre." And
who was this goddess? "Eostre it was who, according to the legend,
opened the portals of Valhalla to receive Baldur, called the White
God, because of his purity and also the Sun God, because his brow
supplied light to mankind," answers The American Book of Days. It
adds: "There is no doubt that the Church in its early days adopted the
old pagan customs and gave a Christian meaning to them. As the
festival of Eostre was in celebration of the renewal of life in the
spring it was easy to make it a celebration of the resurrection from
the dead of Jesus, whose gospel they preached."
This adoption explains how in certain lands the Easter customs, such
as Easter eggs, the Easter rabbit, and hot cross buns, came about.
Concerning the custom of making hot cross buns, "with their shiny
brown tops marked by a . . . cross," the book Easter and Its Customs
states: "The cross was a pagan symbol long before it acquired
everlasting significance from the events of the first Good Friday, and
bread and cakes were sometimes marked with it in pre-Christian times."
Nowhere in Scripture do we find mention of these things, nor is there
any evidence that the early disciples of Jesus gave them any credence.
In fact, the apostle Peter tells us to "form a longing for the
unadulterated milk belonging to the word, that through it [we] may
grow to salvation." (1 Peter 2:2) So why did the churches of
Christendom adopt such obviously pagan symbols into their beliefs and
practices?
The book Curiosities of Popular Customs answers: "It was the
invariable policy of the early Church to give a Christian significance
to such of the extant pagan ceremonies as could not be rooted out. In
the case of Easter the conversion was peculiarly easy. Joy at the
rising of the natural sun, and at the awakening of nature from the
death of winter, became joy at the rising of the Sun of righteousness,
at the resurrection of Christ from the grave. Some of the pagan
observances which took place about the 1st of May were also shifted to
correspond with the celebration of Easter." Rather than steer clear of
popular pagan customs and magical rites, the religious leaders
condoned them and gave them "Christian significance."
'But is there any harm in that?' you may wonder. Some think not. "When
a religion such as Christianity comes to a people from outside, it
adopts and 'baptizes' some of the folk customs which derive from older
religions," said Alan W. Watts, an Episcopal chaplain, in his book
Easter-Its Story and Meaning. "It selects and weaves into the liturgy
folk observances which seem to signify the same eternal principles
taught by the Church." To many, the fact that their church sanctioned
these observances and treated them as holy is reason enough to accept
them. But important questions are being overlooked. How does God feel
about these customs? Has he given us any guidelines to follow in the
matter?
Getting God's Viewpoint
"Easter Day, the Feast of the Resurrection of Our Lord, is the
greatest of all the festivals of the Christian Church," said Christina
Hole in her book Easter and Its Customs. Other writers concur. "No
holy day or festival in the Christian year can compare in importance
with Easter Sunday," notes Robert J. Myers in the book Celebrations.
That, however, raises some questions. If celebrating Easter is so
important, why is there no specific command in the Bible to do so? Is
there any record of Jesus' early disciples observing Easter Sunday?
It is not that the Bible fails to give guidelines as to what should or
should not be celebrated. God was very specific in this to the ancient
nation of Israel, and as noted earlier, explicit instructions were
given for Christians to continue observing the Memorial of Christ's
death. (1 Corinthians 11:23-26; Colossians 2:16, 17) An early edition
of The Encyclopædia Britannica tells us: "There is no indication of
the observance of the Easter festival in the New Testament, or in the
writings of the apostolic Fathers. The sanctity of special times was
an idea absent from the minds of the first Christians. . . . Neither
the Lord nor his apostles enjoined the keeping of this or any other
festival."
Some feel that the joyousness of such festivals and the happiness they
bring are sufficient justification for their observance. We can learn,
however, from the occasion when the Israelites adopted an Egyptian
religious practice and renamed it "a festival to Jehovah." They too
"sat down to eat and drink" and "got up to have a good time." But
their actions greatly angered Jehovah God, and he severely punished
them.-Exodus 32:1-10, 25-28, 35.
God's Word is very clear. There can be no sharing between the "light"
of true beliefs and the "darkness" of Satan's world; there can be no
"harmony" between Christ and pagan worship. We are told: "'Therefore
get out from among them, and separate yourselves,' says Jehovah, 'and
quit touching the unclean thing'; 'and I will take you in.'"-2
Corinthians 6:14-18.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
11 Feb 2004 07:47:23 AM |
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:21:25 GMT,
(MikeH) spake thusly:
The name Easter, used in many lands, is not found in the Bible.
It is found in the Bible (Acts 12:4). It's just not
found as something Christians should celebrate. It's a
pagan holiday, as you went on to say.
book Medieval Holidays and Festivals tells us that "the holiday is
named after the pagan Goddess of the Dawn and of Spring, Eostre.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"One cannot be exposed to the law and order of the
universe without concluding that there must be design
and purpose behind it all... The better we understand
the intracacies of the universe and all it harbors,
the more reason we have found to marvel at the inherent
design upon which it is based... To be forced to
believe only one conclusion --- that everything in the
universe happened by chance --- would violate the very
objectivity of science itself... What random process
could produce the brains of man or the system of the
human eye? They (evolutionists) challenge science to
prove the existence of God. But must we really light
a candle to see the Sun? ... They say they cannot
visualize a designer. Well, can a physicist visualize
an electron? ...What strange rationale makes some
physicists accept the inconceivable electron as real
while refusing to accept the reality of a Designer on
the ground that they cannot conceive Him?"
- Dennis R. Petersen, Unlocking the Mysteries
of Creation, Vol 1
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
11 Feb 2004 07:15:57 PM |
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Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:6hck20htnqqh43fvl9gfopt8hhrupdl8c4@4ax.com:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:21:25 GMT,
(MikeH) spake thusly:
The name Easter, used in many lands, is not found in the Bible.
It is found in the Bible (Acts 12:4). It's just not
found as something Christians should celebrate. It's a
pagan holiday, as you went on to say.
On the other hand, Passover, or Pascha, as it's called in the Eastern
Orthodox rites IS mentioned in the Bible and the Church traditionally
celebrates the Lord's resurrection on the Sunday after Good Friday, the
date of which is calculated from the same formula that the Jewish faith
uses for Passover (but with different results these days due to the
change from Julian to Gregorian calendar in the west).
book Medieval Holidays and Festivals tells us that "the holiday is
named after the pagan Goddess of the Dawn and of Spring, Eostre.
Then why is it still called "Pascha" in the Greek Church from which we
actually inherit the custom?
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
.
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| User: "MikeH" |
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| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
13 Feb 2004 05:10:06 PM |
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Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:6hck20htnqqh43fvl9gfopt8hhrupdl8c4@4ax.com:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:21:25 GMT,
(MikeH) spake thusly:
The name Easter, used in many lands, is not found in the Bible.
It is found in the Bible (Acts 12:4). It's just not
found as something Christians should celebrate. It's a
pagan holiday, as you went on to say.
On the other hand, Passover, or Pascha, as it's called in the Eastern
Orthodox rites IS mentioned in the Bible and the Church traditionally
celebrates the Lord's resurrection on the Sunday after Good Friday, the
date of which is calculated from the same formula that the Jewish faith
uses for Passover (but with different results these days due to the
change from Julian to Gregorian calendar in the west).
book Medieval Holidays and Festivals tells us that "the holiday is
named after the pagan Goddess of the Dawn and of Spring, Eostre.
Then why is it still called "Pascha" in the Greek Church from which we
actually inherit the custom?
As you say, the word "Easter" appears in the Bible at Acts 12:4. Why
is it there if it is a pagan celebration? The word is used in the
Authorized Version of the Bible, but it is the result of poor
translating from the Greek language in which the book of Acts was
originally written. Other translations properly render the Greek word
pascha as passover, not Easter.
Note what The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible has to say about
this on page 145: "Easter. Originally the spring festival in honor of
the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as
Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the
Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the
resurrection of Christ. In A.V. [Authorized Version] it occurs once
(Acts 12:4), but is a mistranslation."
.
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
14 Feb 2004 10:59:05 PM |
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The NIV and the KJV both say passover.
"MikeH" <> wrote in message
news:402d5845.5185763@news.plus.net...
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:6hck20htnqqh43fvl9gfopt8hhrupdl8c4@4ax.com:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:21:25 GMT,
(MikeH) spake thusly:
The name Easter, used in many lands, is not found in the Bible.
It is found in the Bible (Acts 12:4). It's just not
found as something Christians should celebrate. It's a
pagan holiday, as you went on to say.
On the other hand, Passover, or Pascha, as it's called in the Eastern
Orthodox rites IS mentioned in the Bible and the Church traditionally
celebrates the Lord's resurrection on the Sunday after Good Friday, the
date of which is calculated from the same formula that the Jewish faith
uses for Passover (but with different results these days due to the
change from Julian to Gregorian calendar in the west).
book Medieval Holidays and Festivals tells us that "the holiday is
named after the pagan Goddess of the Dawn and of Spring, Eostre.
Then why is it still called "Pascha" in the Greek Church from which we
actually inherit the custom?
As you say, the word "Easter" appears in the Bible at Acts 12:4. Why
is it there if it is a pagan celebration? The word is used in the
Authorized Version of the Bible, but it is the result of poor
translating from the Greek language in which the book of Acts was
originally written. Other translations properly render the Greek word
pascha as passover, not Easter.
Note what The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible has to say about
this on page 145: "Easter. Originally the spring festival in honor of
the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as
Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the
Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the
resurrection of Christ. In A.V. [Authorized Version] it occurs once
(Acts 12:4), but is a mistranslation."
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
15 Feb 2004 07:34:04 AM |
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"MikeH" <> wrote in message
news:402d5845.5185763@news.plus.net...
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:6hck20htnqqh43fvl9gfopt8hhrupdl8c4@4ax.com:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:21:25 GMT,
(MikeH) spake thusly:
The name Easter, used in many lands, is not found in the Bible.
It is found in the Bible (Acts 12:4). It's just not
found as something Christians should celebrate. It's a
pagan holiday, as you went on to say.
On the other hand, Passover, or Pascha, as it's called in the Eastern
Orthodox rites IS mentioned in the Bible and the Church traditionally
celebrates the Lord's resurrection on the Sunday after Good Friday, the
date of which is calculated from the same formula that the Jewish faith
uses for Passover (but with different results these days due to the
change from Julian to Gregorian calendar in the west).
book Medieval Holidays and Festivals tells us that "the holiday is
named after the pagan Goddess of the Dawn and of Spring, Eostre.
Then why is it still called "Pascha" in the Greek Church from which we
actually inherit the custom?
As you say, the word "Easter" appears in the Bible at Acts 12:4. Why
is it there if it is a pagan celebration? The word is used in the
Authorized Version of the Bible, but it is the result of poor
translating from the Greek language in which the book of Acts was
originally written. Other translations properly render the Greek word
pascha as passover, not Easter.
Note what The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible has to say about
this on page 145: "Easter. Originally the spring festival in honor of
the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as
Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the
Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the
resurrection of Christ. In A.V. [Authorized Version] it occurs once
(Acts 12:4), but is a mistranslation."
This information is wrong. The man who invented the
English word, "Passover", was, I believe, William
Tyndale. He chose Easter, when he translated his
Bible. Wouldn't the man who invented the word, know?
The fact is, that Passover already went by. The
Passover is one evening meal, followed by the week of
Unleavened Bread. Knowing this, ask yourself why Herod
would wait for what had already taken place. Verse 3
tells us that it is already into the week of Unleavened
Bread.
Acts 12:3-4
3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded
further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of
unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him
in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of
soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring
him forth to the people.
Read the following carefully...
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
When Christianity becomes religion,
it leaves the heart hungry.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
15 Feb 2004 02:38:34 PM |
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Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:qqsu20h153d6ra3imkpev3cvk3l1631epo@4ax.com:
"MikeH" < > wrote in message
news:402d5845.5185763@news.plus.net...
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:6hck20htnqqh43fvl9gfopt8hhrupdl8c4@4ax.com:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:21:25 GMT,
(MikeH) spake thusly:
The name Easter, used in many lands, is not found in the Bible.
It is found in the Bible (Acts 12:4). It's just not
found as something Christians should celebrate. It's a
pagan holiday, as you went on to say.
On the other hand, Passover, or Pascha, as it's called in the Eastern
Orthodox rites IS mentioned in the Bible and the Church traditionally
celebrates the Lord's resurrection on the Sunday after Good Friday,
the
date of which is calculated from the same formula that the Jewish
faith
uses for Passover (but with different results these days due to the
change from Julian to Gregorian calendar in the west).
book Medieval Holidays and Festivals tells us that "the holiday is
named after the pagan Goddess of the Dawn and of Spring, Eostre.
Then why is it still called "Pascha" in the Greek Church from which
we
actually inherit the custom?
As you say, the word "Easter" appears in the Bible at Acts 12:4. Why
is it there if it is a pagan celebration? The word is used in the
Authorized Version of the Bible, but it is the result of poor
translating from the Greek language in which the book of Acts was
originally written. Other translations properly render the Greek word
pascha as passover, not Easter.
Note what The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible has to say about
this on page 145: "Easter. Originally the spring festival in honor of
the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as
Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the
Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the
resurrection of Christ. In A.V. [Authorized Version] it occurs once
(Acts 12:4), but is a mistranslation."
This information is wrong. The man who invented the
English word, "Passover", was, I believe, William
Tyndale. He chose Easter, when he translated his
Bible. Wouldn't the man who invented the word, know?
Invented, schminvented. The point is the name of the holy day, given to
it by the Hellenistic Jews of the eastern Mediterranean well before the
time of Christ is PASCHA. It was so common by the end of the 4th century
that Jerome doesn't even bother to translate the word, it having been
adopted directly into Latin from Koine. You'r blowing smoke again,
Pastor.
The fact is, that Passover already went by. The
Passover is one evening meal, followed by the week of
Unleavened Bread. Knowing this, ask yourself why Herod
would wait for what had already taken place. Verse 3
tells us that it is already into the week of Unleavened
Bread.
This is YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION (in order to squeeze same pejorative
remarks about paganism out of the verse and protect your false KJV-is-
perfect doctrine).
Acts 12:3-4
3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded
further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of
unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him
in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of
soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring
him forth to the people.
Read the following carefully...
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
Read it. Not the least bit impressed by it or by the author's claim to
be any kind of biblical scholar. For one thing it's NOT alleged to be an
error, so much as a different choice of words (considering that by 1611,
Easter was well-established as the same CHRISTIAN holy day that is now
connoted by PASCHA in the Greek (and Latin) Church.
(The Douay-Rheims actually uses the Hebrew "Pasach" here to translate
it).
Granted, I'd rather use Passover, since it is understood in this context
that it's a Jewish set of holidays that is being observed.
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
15 Feb 2004 07:25:45 AM |
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 04:59:05 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The NIV and the KJV both say passover.
No, they don't. The KJV says, "Easter".
"MikeH" < > wrote in message
news:402d5845.5185763@news.plus.net...
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:6hck20htnqqh43fvl9gfopt8hhrupdl8c4@4ax.com:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:21:25 GMT,
(MikeH) spake thusly:
The name Easter, used in many lands, is not found in the Bible.
It is found in the Bible (Acts 12:4). It's just not
found as something Christians should celebrate. It's a
pagan holiday, as you went on to say.
On the other hand, Passover, or Pascha, as it's called in the Eastern
Orthodox rites IS mentioned in the Bible and the Church traditionally
celebrates the Lord's resurrection on the Sunday after Good Friday, the
date of which is calculated from the same formula that the Jewish faith
uses for Passover (but with different results these days due to the
change from Julian to Gregorian calendar in the west).
book Medieval Holidays and Festivals tells us that "the holiday is
named after the pagan Goddess of the Dawn and of Spring, Eostre.
Then why is it still called "Pascha" in the Greek Church from which we
actually inherit the custom?
As you say, the word "Easter" appears in the Bible at Acts 12:4. Why
is it there if it is a pagan celebration? The word is used in the
Authorized Version of the Bible, but it is the result of poor
translating from the Greek language in which the book of Acts was
originally written. Other translations properly render the Greek word
pascha as passover, not Easter.
Note what The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible has to say about
this on page 145: "Easter. Originally the spring festival in honor of
the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as
Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the
Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the
resurrection of Christ. In A.V. [Authorized Version] it occurs once
(Acts 12:4), but is a mistranslation."
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
www.icr.org
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
11 Feb 2004 09:05:39 AM |
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The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is because it is the
Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that passover occurs at exactly the
same time that the pagan fertility celebrations do.
"Pastor Dave" <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in message
news:6hck20htnqqh43fvl9gfopt8hhrupdl8c4@4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:21:25 GMT,
(MikeH) spake thusly:
The name Easter, used in many lands, is not found in the Bible.
It is found in the Bible (Acts 12:4). It's just not
found as something Christians should celebrate. It's a
pagan holiday, as you went on to say.
book Medieval Holidays and Festivals tells us that "the holiday is
named after the pagan Goddess of the Dawn and of Spring, Eostre.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"One cannot be exposed to the law and order of the
universe without concluding that there must be design
and purpose behind it all... The better we understand
the intracacies of the universe and all it harbors,
the more reason we have found to marvel at the inherent
design upon which it is based... To be forced to
believe only one conclusion --- that everything in the
universe happened by chance --- would violate the very
objectivity of science itself... What random process
could produce the brains of man or the system of the
human eye? They (evolutionists) challenge science to
prove the existence of God. But must we really light
a candle to see the Sun? ... They say they cannot
visualize a designer. Well, can a physicist visualize
an electron? ...What strange rationale makes some
physicists accept the inconceivable electron as real
while refusing to accept the reality of a Designer on
the ground that they cannot conceive Him?"
- Dennis R. Petersen, Unlocking the Mysteries
of Creation, Vol 1
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
11 Feb 2004 09:48:16 AM |
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:05:39 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is because it is the
Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that passover occurs at exactly the
same time that the pagan fertility celebrations do.
No, that's not true. Acts 12:4 is not discussing the
Passover. That is an error that is perpetrated by
translators who don't study and perpetuated by bad
translations.
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
http://www.delusionresistance.org/creation/christ_scientific_creation.html
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
11 Feb 2004 07:52:04 PM |
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Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:jgjk20d7988u7uif0s8hs4cti46j2mm2g2@4ax.com:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:05:39 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is because it is
the Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that passover occurs at
exactly the same time that the pagan fertility celebrations do.
No, that's not true. Acts 12:4 is not discussing the
Passover. That is an error that is perpetrated by
translators who don't study and perpetuated by bad
translations.
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
So how ARE we to translate "pascha?" Which is translated everywhere ELSE
in the KJV with "passover." And which word is used in every Greek text
of Acts 12:4 that *I* could find (which is quite a number of them
actually. dating from the 4th century onward).
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
14 Feb 2004 09:35:51 AM |
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:52:04 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:jgjk20d7988u7uif0s8hs4cti46j2mm2g2@4ax.com:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:05:39 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is because it is
the Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that passover occurs at
exactly the same time that the pagan fertility celebrations do.
No, that's not true. Acts 12:4 is not discussing the
Passover. That is an error that is perpetrated by
translators who don't study and perpetuated by bad
translations.
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
So how ARE we to translate "pascha?" Which is translated everywhere ELSE
in the KJV with "passover." And which word is used in every Greek text
of Acts 12:4 that *I* could find (which is quite a number of them
actually. dating from the 4th century onward).
The man who invented the English word, "Passover", was,
I believe, William Tyndale. He chose Easter, when he
translated his Bible. Wouldn't the man who invented
the word, know?
The fact is, that Passover already went by. The
Passover is one evening meal, followed by the week of
Unleavened Bread. Knowing this, ask yourself why Herod
would wait for what had already taken place. Verse 3
tells us that it is already into the week of Unleavened
Bread.
Acts 12:3-4
3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded
further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of
unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him
in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of
soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring
him forth to the people.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"Paleontologists are traditionally famous (or infamous)
for reconstructing whole animals from the debris of
death. Mostly they cheat. ...If any event in life's
history resembles man's creation myths, it is this
sudden diversification of marine life when
multicellular organisms took over as the dominant
actors in ecology and evolution. Baffling (and
embarrassing) to Darwin, this event still dazzles us
and stands as a major biological revolution on a par
with the invention of self-replication
and the origin of the eukaryotic cell." (Bengtson,
Stefan, "The Solution to a Jigsaw Puzzle," Nature, vol.
345 (June 28, 1990), pp. 765-766)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
|
| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
14 Feb 2004 12:36:14 PM |
|
|
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:3ffs20dio54bvtrqvm9oel1bq3o0evc5nv@4ax.com:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:52:04 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:jgjk20d7988u7uif0s8hs4cti46j2mm2g2@4ax.com:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:05:39 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is because it
is the Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that passover occurs
at exactly the same time that the pagan fertility celebrations do.
No, that's not true. Acts 12:4 is not discussing the
Passover. That is an error that is perpetrated by
translators who don't study and perpetuated by bad
translations.
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
So how ARE we to translate "pascha?" Which is translated everywhere
ELSE in the KJV with "passover." And which word is used in every
Greek text of Acts 12:4 that *I* could find (which is quite a number
of them actually. dating from the 4th century onward).
The man who invented the English word, "Passover", was,
I believe, William Tyndale. He chose Easter, when he
translated his Bible. Wouldn't the man who invented
the word, know?
Not necessarily.
The fact is, that Passover already went by. The
Passover is one evening meal, followed by the week of
Unleavened Bread. Knowing this, ask yourself why Herod
would wait for what had already taken place. Verse 3
tells us that it is already into the week of Unleavened
Bread.
Whatever. The WORD USED is tranlated “passover” in the entire rest of
the KJV!
Acts 12:3-4
3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded
further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of
unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him
in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of
soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring
him forth to the people.
So?
You’re trying to make ancient Greek scripture invoke a holiday that was
of pagan Anglo-Saxon origin and probably wasn’t even celebrated by THEM
until some hundreds of years later.
Typical bibliolatrous trashy scholarship, IMO.
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
15 Feb 2004 07:24:25 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:36:14 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:3ffs20dio54bvtrqvm9oel1bq3o0evc5nv@4ax.com:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:52:04 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:jgjk20d7988u7uif0s8hs4cti46j2mm2g2@4ax.com:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:05:39 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is because it
is the Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that passover occurs
at exactly the same time that the pagan fertility celebrations do.
No, that's not true. Acts 12:4 is not discussing the
Passover. That is an error that is perpetrated by
translators who don't study and perpetuated by bad
translations.
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
So how ARE we to translate "pascha?" Which is translated everywhere
ELSE in the KJV with "passover." And which word is used in every
Greek text of Acts 12:4 that *I* could find (which is quite a number
of them actually. dating from the 4th century onward).
The man who invented the English word, "Passover", was,
I believe, William Tyndale. He chose Easter, when he
translated his Bible. Wouldn't the man who invented
the word, know?
Not necessarily.
The fact is, that Passover already went by. The
Passover is one evening meal, followed by the week of
Unleavened Bread. Knowing this, ask yourself why Herod
would wait for what had already taken place. Verse 3
tells us that it is already into the week of Unleavened
Bread.
Whatever. The WORD USED is tranlated “passover” in the entire rest of
the KJV!
That doesn't matter. There are many words in the
original languages that are translated as different
English words, depending on the context. You are not
bothering to read what I wrote carefully. I will say
it again...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
Acts 12:3-4
3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded
further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of
unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him
in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of
soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring
him forth to the people.
So?
You’re trying to make ancient Greek scripture invoke a holiday that was
of pagan Anglo-Saxon origin and probably wasn’t even celebrated by THEM
until some hundreds of years later.
In other words, you don't know when it was that they
started celebrating it. You don't have the facts, but
you will tell me I'm wrong and then claim that I am
using, "trashy scholarship"?
Typical bibliolatrous trashy scholarship, IMO.
See above.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"If something in science suddenly becomes
so sacrosanct that you can't question it,
then it ceases to be science," he said.
"And I really think that's what's become
of Darwinism." - Roger DeHart
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
|
| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
15 Feb 2004 02:26:25 PM |
|
|
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:8ksu209lire1jkptdcm8hgm69eqi24ujah@4ax.com:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:36:14 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:3ffs20dio54bvtrqvm9oel1bq3o0evc5nv@4ax.com:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:52:04 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:jgjk20d7988u7uif0s8hs4cti46j2mm2g2@4ax.com:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:05:39 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is because it
is the Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that passover occurs
at exactly the same time that the pagan fertility celebrations do.
No, that's not true. Acts 12:4 is not discussing the
Passover. That is an error that is perpetrated by
translators who don't study and perpetuated by bad
translations.
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
So how ARE we to translate "pascha?" Which is translated everywhere
ELSE in the KJV with "passover." And which word is used in every
Greek text of Acts 12:4 that *I* could find (which is quite a number
of them actually. dating from the 4th century onward).
The man who invented the English word, "Passover", was,
I believe, William Tyndale. He chose Easter, when he
translated his Bible. Wouldn't the man who invented
the word, know?
Not necessarily.
The fact is, that Passover already went by. The
Passover is one evening meal, followed by the week of
Unleavened Bread. Knowing this, ask yourself why Herod
would wait for what had already taken place. Verse 3
tells us that it is already into the week of Unleavened
Bread.
Whatever. The WORD USED is tranlated “passover” in the entire rest of
the KJV!
That doesn't matter. There are many words in the
original languages that are translated as different
English words, depending on the context. You are not
bothering to read what I wrote carefully. I will say
it again...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
Acts 12:3-4
3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded
further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of
unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him
in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of
soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring
him forth to the people.
So?
You’re trying to make ancient Greek scripture invoke a holiday that was
of pagan Anglo-Saxon origin and probably wasn’t even celebrated by THEM
until some hundreds of years later.
In other words, you don't know when it was that they
started celebrating it. You don't have the facts, but
you will tell me I'm wrong and then claim that I am
using, "trashy scholarship"?
Typical bibliolatrous trashy scholarship, IMO.
See above.
Whatever.....you're just using this as an excuse to invoke your prejudice
against the use of the word "Easter" as a Christian holiday. But the
fact is it's become one by coincidence. Nobody is out there on Easter
Sunday extolling the virtues of some pagan deity. The worst that happens
is that non-Christians go egg-hunting instead of to church.
And the fact also is that the word is the identical word used for
passover throughout the Greek scriptures. Maybe the author was being
more general than you literalists like to permit biblical authors to be.
But, again, that's YOUR problem, not his.
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
16 Feb 2004 06:16:49 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:26:25 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:8ksu209lire1jkptdcm8hgm69eqi24ujah@4ax.com:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:36:14 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:3ffs20dio54bvtrqvm9oel1bq3o0evc5nv@4ax.com:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:52:04 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:jgjk20d7988u7uif0s8hs4cti46j2mm2g2@4ax.com:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:05:39 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is because it
is the Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that passover occurs
at exactly the same time that the pagan fertility celebrations do.
No, that's not true. Acts 12:4 is not discussing the
Passover. That is an error that is perpetrated by
translators who don't study and perpetuated by bad
translations.
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
So how ARE we to translate "pascha?" Which is translated everywhere
ELSE in the KJV with "passover." And which word is used in every
Greek text of Acts 12:4 that *I* could find (which is quite a number
of them actually. dating from the 4th century onward).
The man who invented the English word, "Passover", was,
I believe, William Tyndale. He chose Easter, when he
translated his Bible. Wouldn't the man who invented
the word, know?
Not necessarily.
The fact is, that Passover already went by. The
Passover is one evening meal, followed by the week of
Unleavened Bread. Knowing this, ask yourself why Herod
would wait for what had already taken place. Verse 3
tells us that it is already into the week of Unleavened
Bread.
Whatever. The WORD USED is tranlated “passover” in the entire rest of
the KJV!
That doesn't matter. There are many words in the
original languages that are translated as different
English words, depending on the context. You are not
bothering to read what I wrote carefully. I will say
it again...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
Acts 12:3-4
3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded
further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of
unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him
in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of
soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring
him forth to the people.
So?
You’re trying to make ancient Greek scripture invoke a holiday that was
of pagan Anglo-Saxon origin and probably wasn’t even celebrated by THEM
until some hundreds of years later.
In other words, you don't know when it was that they
started celebrating it. You don't have the facts, but
you will tell me I'm wrong and then claim that I am
using, "trashy scholarship"?
Typical bibliolatrous trashy scholarship, IMO.
See above.
Whatever.....you're just using this as an excuse to invoke your prejudice
against the use of the word "Easter" as a Christian holiday. But the
fact is it's become one by coincidence. Nobody is out there on Easter
Sunday extolling the virtues of some pagan deity. The worst that happens
is that non-Christians go egg-hunting instead of to church.
Yes and we all know that's what Jesus did, right?
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"Paleontologists are traditionally famous (or infamous)
for reconstructing whole animals from the debris of
death. Mostly they cheat. ...If any event in life's
history resembles man's creation myths, it is this
sudden diversification of marine life when
multicellular organisms took over as the dominant
actors in ecology and evolution. Baffling (and
embarrassing) to Darwin, this event still dazzles us
and stands as a major biological revolution on a par
with the invention of self-replication
and the origin of the eukaryotic cell." (Bengtson,
Stefan, "The Solution to a Jigsaw Puzzle," Nature, vol.
345 (June 28, 1990), pp. 765-766)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
|
| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
16 Feb 2004 10:17:30 AM |
|
|
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:mlc1305vieptlqg5r30clh5ncm1pugr0i6@4ax.com:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:26:25 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:8ksu209lire1jkptdcm8hgm69eqi24ujah@4ax.com:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:36:14 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:3ffs20dio54bvtrqvm9oel1bq3o0evc5nv@4ax.com:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:52:04 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:jgjk20d7988u7uif0s8hs4cti46j2mm2g2@4ax.com:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:05:39 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is because
it is the Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that passover
occurs at exactly the same time that the pagan fertility
celebrations do.
No, that's not true. Acts 12:4 is not discussing the
Passover. That is an error that is perpetrated by
translators who don't study and perpetuated by bad
translations.
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
So how ARE we to translate "pascha?" Which is translated
everywhere ELSE in the KJV with "passover." And which word is
used in every Greek text of Acts 12:4 that *I* could find (which
is quite a number of them actually. dating from the 4th century
onward).
The man who invented the English word, "Passover", was,
I believe, William Tyndale. He chose Easter, when he
translated his Bible. Wouldn't the man who invented
the word, know?
Not necessarily.
The fact is, that Passover already went by. The
Passover is one evening meal, followed by the week of
Unleavened Bread. Knowing this, ask yourself why Herod
would wait for what had already taken place. Verse 3
tells us that it is already into the week of Unleavened
Bread.
Whatever. The WORD USED is tranlated “passover” in the entire rest
of the KJV!
That doesn't matter. There are many words in the
original languages that are translated as different
English words, depending on the context. You are not
bothering to read what I wrote carefully. I will say
it again...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
Acts 12:3-4
3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded
further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of
unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him
in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of
soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring
him forth to the people.
So?
You’re trying to make ancient Greek scripture invoke a holiday that
was of pagan Anglo-Saxon origin and probably wasn’t even celebrated
by THEM until some hundreds of years later.
In other words, you don't know when it was that they
started celebrating it. You don't have the facts, but
you will tell me I'm wrong and then claim that I am
using, "trashy scholarship"?
Typical bibliolatrous trashy scholarship, IMO.
See above.
Whatever.....you're just using this as an excuse to invoke your
prejudice against the use of the word "Easter" as a Christian holiday.
But the fact is it's become one by coincidence. Nobody is out there
on Easter Sunday extolling the virtues of some pagan deity. The worst
that happens is that non-Christians go egg-hunting instead of to
church.
Yes and we all know that's what Jesus did, right?
Nope....being a good Jew, he celebrated Passover with his friends.
I have no idea what the Romans and Greeks did, though, but I'm sure it
wasn't related to any Anglo-Saxon goddess from several hundred years
later.
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
16 Feb 2004 12:27:04 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:17:30 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:mlc1305vieptlqg5r30clh5ncm1pugr0i6@4ax.com:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:26:25 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:8ksu209lire1jkptdcm8hgm69eqi24ujah@4ax.com:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:36:14 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:3ffs20dio54bvtrqvm9oel1bq3o0evc5nv@4ax.com:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:52:04 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:jgjk20d7988u7uif0s8hs4cti46j2mm2g2@4ax.com:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:05:39 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is because
it is the Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that passover
occurs at exactly the same time that the pagan fertility
celebrations do.
No, that's not true. Acts 12:4 is not discussing the
Passover. That is an error that is perpetrated by
translators who don't study and perpetuated by bad
translations.
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
So how ARE we to translate "pascha?" Which is translated
everywhere ELSE in the KJV with "passover." And which word is
used in every Greek text of Acts 12:4 that *I* could find (which
is quite a number of them actually. dating from the 4th century
onward).
The man who invented the English word, "Passover", was,
I believe, William Tyndale. He chose Easter, when he
translated his Bible. Wouldn't the man who invented
the word, know?
Not necessarily.
The fact is, that Passover already went by. The
Passover is one evening meal, followed by the week of
Unleavened Bread. Knowing this, ask yourself why Herod
would wait for what had already taken place. Verse 3
tells us that it is already into the week of Unleavened
Bread.
Whatever. The WORD USED is tranlated “passover” in the entire rest
of the KJV!
That doesn't matter. There are many words in the
original languages that are translated as different
English words, depending on the context. You are not
bothering to read what I wrote carefully. I will say
it again...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
Acts 12:3-4
3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded
further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of
unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him
in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of
soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring
him forth to the people.
So?
You’re trying to make ancient Greek scripture invoke a holiday that
was of pagan Anglo-Saxon origin and probably wasn’t even celebrated
by THEM until some hundreds of years later.
In other words, you don't know when it was that they
started celebrating it. You don't have the facts, but
you will tell me I'm wrong and then claim that I am
using, "trashy scholarship"?
Typical bibliolatrous trashy scholarship, IMO.
See above.
Whatever.....you're just using this as an excuse to invoke your
prejudice against the use of the word "Easter" as a Christian holiday.
But the fact is it's become one by coincidence. Nobody is out there
on Easter Sunday extolling the virtues of some pagan deity. The worst
that happens is that non-Christians go egg-hunting instead of to
church.
Yes and we all know that's what Jesus did, right?
Nope....being a good Jew, he celebrated Passover with his friends.
Which in this case, had already passed.
You still have not answered my question...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
I have no idea what the Romans and Greeks did, though, but I'm sure it
wasn't related to any Anglo-Saxon goddess from several hundred years
later.
Are you now?
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"You can safely assume that you've created God in your
own image when it turns out that God hates all the same
people you do. - Anne Lamott
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
|
| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
16 Feb 2004 10:47:44 PM |
|
|
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:up2230l505k6o4iktghg5dh9blg5nluvp7@4ax.com:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:17:30 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:mlc1305vieptlqg5r30clh5ncm1pugr0i6@4ax.com:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:26:25 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:8ksu209lire1jkptdcm8hgm69eqi24ujah@4ax.com:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:36:14 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:3ffs20dio54bvtrqvm9oel1bq3o0evc5nv@4ax.com:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:52:04 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:jgjk20d7988u7uif0s8hs4cti46j2mm2g2@4ax.com:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:05:39 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is
because
it is the Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that passover
occurs at exactly the same time that the pagan fertility
celebrations do.
No, that's not true. Acts 12:4 is not discussing the
Passover. That is an error that is perpetrated by
translators who don't study and perpetuated by bad
translations.
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
So how ARE we to translate "pascha?" Which is translated
everywhere ELSE in the KJV with "passover." And which word is
used in every Greek text of Acts 12:4 that *I* could find (which
is quite a number of them actually. dating from the 4th century
onward).
The man who invented the English word, "Passover", was,
I believe, William Tyndale. He chose Easter, when he
translated his Bible. Wouldn't the man who invented
the word, know?
Not necessarily.
The fact is, that Passover already went by. The
Passover is one evening meal, followed by the week of
Unleavened Bread. Knowing this, ask yourself why Herod
would wait for what had already taken place. Verse 3
tells us that it is already into the week of Unleavened
Bread.
Whatever. The WORD USED is tranlated “passover” in the entire rest
of the KJV!
That doesn't matter. There are many words in the
original languages that are translated as different
English words, depending on the context. You are not
bothering to read what I wrote carefully. I will say
it again...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
Acts 12:3-4
3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded
further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of
unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him
in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of
soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring
him forth to the people.
So?
You’re trying to make ancient Greek scripture invoke a holiday that
was of pagan Anglo-Saxon origin and probably wasn’t even celebrated
by THEM until some hundreds of years later.
In other words, you don't know when it was that they
started celebrating it. You don't have the facts, but
you will tell me I'm wrong and then claim that I am
using, "trashy scholarship"?
Typical bibliolatrous trashy scholarship, IMO.
See above.
Whatever.....you're just using this as an excuse to invoke your
prejudice against the use of the word "Easter" as a Christian
holiday.
But the fact is it's become one by coincidence. Nobody is out there
on Easter Sunday extolling the virtues of some pagan deity. The
worst
that happens is that non-Christians go egg-hunting instead of to
church.
Yes and we all know that's what Jesus did, right?
Nope....being a good Jew, he celebrated Passover with his friends.
Which in this case, had already passed.
You still have not answered my question...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
Maybe he was waiting until the unleavened bread thing is over. It's all
part of the Passover season.
I have no idea what the Romans and Greeks did, though, but I'm sure it
wasn't related to any Anglo-Saxon goddess from several hundred years
later.
Are you now?
Yes, I am. This is definitely one of those tempest-in-a-teapot things.
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
17 Feb 2004 06:26:34 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:47:44 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:up2230l505k6o4iktghg5dh9blg5nluvp7@4ax.com:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:17:30 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:mlc1305vieptlqg5r30clh5ncm1pugr0i6@4ax.com:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:26:25 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:8ksu209lire1jkptdcm8hgm69eqi24ujah@4ax.com:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:36:14 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:3ffs20dio54bvtrqvm9oel1bq3o0evc5nv@4ax.com:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:52:04 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:jgjk20d7988u7uif0s8hs4cti46j2mm2g2@4ax.com:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:05:39 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is
because
it is the Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that passover
occurs at exactly the same time that the pagan fertility
celebrations do.
No, that's not true. Acts 12:4 is not discussing the
Passover. That is an error that is perpetrated by
translators who don't study and perpetuated by bad
translations.
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
So how ARE we to translate "pascha?" Which is translated
everywhere ELSE in the KJV with "passover." And which word is
used in every Greek text of Acts 12:4 that *I* could find (which
is quite a number of them actually. dating from the 4th century
onward).
The man who invented the English word, "Passover", was,
I believe, William Tyndale. He chose Easter, when he
translated his Bible. Wouldn't the man who invented
the word, know?
Not necessarily.
The fact is, that Passover already went by. The
Passover is one evening meal, followed by the week of
Unleavened Bread. Knowing this, ask yourself why Herod
would wait for what had already taken place. Verse 3
tells us that it is already into the week of Unleavened
Bread.
Whatever. The WORD USED is tranlated “passover” in the entire rest
of the KJV!
That doesn't matter. There are many words in the
original languages that are translated as different
English words, depending on the context. You are not
bothering to read what I wrote carefully. I will say
it again...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
Acts 12:3-4
3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded
further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of
unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him
in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of
soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring
him forth to the people.
So?
You’re trying to make ancient Greek scripture invoke a holiday that
was of pagan Anglo-Saxon origin and probably wasn’t even celebrated
by THEM until some hundreds of years later.
In other words, you don't know when it was that they
started celebrating it. You don't have the facts, but
you will tell me I'm wrong and then claim that I am
using, "trashy scholarship"?
Typical bibliolatrous trashy scholarship, IMO.
See above.
Whatever.....you're just using this as an excuse to invoke your
prejudice against the use of the word "Easter" as a Christian
holiday.
But the fact is it's become one by coincidence. Nobody is out there
on Easter Sunday extolling the virtues of some pagan deity. The
worst
that happens is that non-Christians go egg-hunting instead of to
church.
Yes and we all know that's what Jesus did, right?
Nope....being a good Jew, he celebrated Passover with his friends.
Which in this case, had already passed.
You still have not answered my question...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
Maybe he was waiting until the unleavened bread thing is over. It's all
part of the Passover season.
"Maybe"? You stress how I am wrong, period and your
response to a request to refute my position, is
"maybe"? "Maybe he was waiting until the unleavened
bread THING is over"? You're not even sure what it is
and you tell me I am wrong, period? I don't say this
to attempt to humiliate you, but rather, to bounce your
own words back at you, in the hope that you will open
your heart to the idea that maybe you shouldn't condemn
a statement without researching the issue carefully
first. You based your whole argument on the fact that
the same word is used for Passover in the Bible. That
is true, but then, there are a number of Hebrew and
Greek words that are translated into different English
words, depending on the context. In this context,
"Passover" is not an appropriate translation, because
it had already gone by. William Tyndale, who coined
the word, "Passover", did not use it in his
translation, but rather, chose "Easter", recognizing
this. So no, the KJV is not alone in the use of the
word "Easter" here.
Please read the following web page CAREFULLY and take
your time. It will explain it in detail, but concisely
at the same time. Normally, that's an oxymoron. :)
However, in this case, it is done quite well.
I have no idea what the Romans and Greeks did, though, but I'm sure it
wasn't related to any Anglo-Saxon goddess from several hundred years
later.
Are you now?
Yes, I am. This is definitely one of those tempest-in-a-teapot things.
Actually, the Romans and Greeks borrowed a number of
pagan gods and rituals and put their own twist on them,
which is why you see more than one name for the goddess
that was worshipped at Easter (which of course, had a
close, but different name, when transliterated from
other tongues).
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"Cause when you're with me, I'm free, I'm careless,
I believe. Above any others, we'll fly. This brings
tears, to my eyes." - Creed: My Sacrifice
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
|
| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
17 Feb 2004 09:35:16 AM |
|
|
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:1h1430tat0ss4lndcel4vr3olfo71rhkk0@4ax.com:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:47:44 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:up2230l505k6o4iktghg5dh9blg5nluvp7@4ax.com:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:17:30 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:mlc1305vieptlqg5r30clh5ncm1pugr0i6@4ax.com:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:26:25 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:8ksu209lire1jkptdcm8hgm69eqi24ujah@4ax.com:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:36:14 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:3ffs20dio54bvtrqvm9oel1bq3o0evc5nv@4ax.com:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:52:04 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:jgjk20d7988u7uif0s8hs4cti46j2mm2g2@4ax.com:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:05:39 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is
because
it is the Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that
passover
occurs at exactly the same time that the pagan fertility
celebrations do.
No, that's not true. Acts 12:4 is not discussing the
Passover. That is an error that is perpetrated by
translators who don't study and perpetuated by bad
translations.
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
So how ARE we to translate "pascha?" Which is translated
everywhere ELSE in the KJV with "passover." And which word is
used in every Greek text of Acts 12:4 that *I* could find
(which
is quite a number of them actually. dating from the 4th century
onward).
The man who invented the English word, "Passover", was,
I believe, William Tyndale. He chose Easter, when he
translated his Bible. Wouldn't the man who invented
the word, know?
Not necessarily.
The fact is, that Passover already went by. The
Passover is one evening meal, followed by the week of
Unleavened Bread. Knowing this, ask yourself why Herod
would wait for what had already taken place. Verse 3
tells us that it is already into the week of Unleavened
Bread.
Whatever. The WORD USED is tranlated “passover” in the entire
rest
of the KJV!
That doesn't matter. There are many words in the
original languages that are translated as different
English words, depending on the context. You are not
bothering to read what I wrote carefully. I will say
it again...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
Acts 12:3-4
3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded
further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of
unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him
in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of
soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring
him forth to the people.
So?
You’re trying to make ancient Greek scripture invoke a holiday
that
was of pagan Anglo-Saxon origin and probably wasn’t even
celebrated
by THEM until some hundreds of years later.
In other words, you don't know when it was that they
started celebrating it. You don't have the facts, but
you will tell me I'm wrong and then claim that I am
using, "trashy scholarship"?
Typical bibliolatrous trashy scholarship, IMO.
See above.
Whatever.....you're just using this as an excuse to invoke your
prejudice against the use of the word "Easter" as a Christian
holiday.
But the fact is it's become one by coincidence. Nobody is out
there
on Easter Sunday extolling the virtues of some pagan deity. The
worst
that happens is that non-Christians go egg-hunting instead of to
church.
Yes and we all know that's what Jesus did, right?
Nope....being a good Jew, he celebrated Passover with his friends.
Which in this case, had already passed.
You still have not answered my question...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
Maybe he was waiting until the unleavened bread thing is over. It's
all
part of the Passover season.
"Maybe"? You stress how I am wrong, period and your
response to a request to refute my position, is
"maybe"? "Maybe he was waiting until the unleavened
bread THING is over"? You're not even sure what it is
and you tell me I am wrong, period? I don't say this
I tell you that you are wrong because you are insisting that somehow,
this particular Hebrew-derived Greek word that is used here is different
in this context from every other time it is used in scripture.
And the only reason that you insist is that you have this idolatrous
doctrine about the KJV.
to attempt to humiliate you, but rather, to bounce your
own words back at you, in the hope that you will open
your heart to the idea that maybe you shouldn't condemn
a statement without researching the issue carefully
first. You based your whole argument on the fact that
Don't bother your head about me, Pastor. There is absolutely NO POINT in
you trying to infect me with your heresies.
the same word is used for Passover in the Bible. That
is true, but then, there are a number of Hebrew and
Greek words that are translated into different English
words, depending on the context. In this context,
Except THIS particular Greek word is derived from the Hebrew and
specifically refers to the holiday we call, in English, Passover.
You can twist it and jump all over it any way you want. But all you'll be
doing is proving for me, and everyone else concerned, that you worship,
not God, not Jesus Christ, but a book, and not even the book as it is,
but the book as you imagine it to be.
"Passover" is not an appropriate translation, because
it had already gone by. William Tyndale, who coined
the word, "Passover", did not use it in his
translation, but rather, chose "Easter", recognizing
this. So no, the KJV is not alone in the use of the
word "Easter" here.
Whatever. Tyndale was wrong. The KJV committee was wrong and YOU are
wrong. But then you don't worship God, you worship your antique English
Bibles. And you will insist that everyone else must be equally
idolatrous or you will condemn them to hell.
Please read the following web page CAREFULLY and take
your time. It will explain it in detail, but concisely
at the same time. Normally, that's an oxymoron. :)
However, in this case, it is done quite well.
All just rationalizations.
I have no idea what the Romans and Greeks did, though, but I'm sure
it
wasn't related to any Anglo-Saxon goddess from several hundred years
later.
Are you now?
Yes, I am. This is definitely one of those tempest-in-a-teapot things.
Actually, the Romans and Greeks borrowed a number of
pagan gods and rituals and put their own twist on them,
which is why you see more than one name for the goddess
that was worshipped at Easter (which of course, had a
close, but different name, when transliterated from
other tongues).
Well, there's no question that the Roman and Greek pagans had spring
solstice rites that were about the same time as Passover (Good Friday is
the first Friday after the first full moon after the spring equinox, more
or less, in the Hebrew Lunar-Solar calendar). But I doubt the Romans had
any time machines handy in order to borrow pagan deities from the future.
For example, the closest they came to YOUR kind of idolatry was in the
4th century when Augustine suggested sola scriptura. But that was after
most of the empire was converted to Christianity. Oh, there were pagans
around for another 150 years, into the 6th century, but by then there
were so few, the Church was able to take possession of the Pantheon,
exorcise it and reconsecrate it as a church.
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Easter - Is it Christian? |
17 Feb 2004 05:48:58 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:35:16 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:1h1430tat0ss4lndcel4vr3olfo71rhkk0@4ax.com:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:47:44 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:up2230l505k6o4iktghg5dh9blg5nluvp7@4ax.com:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:17:30 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:mlc1305vieptlqg5r30clh5ncm1pugr0i6@4ax.com:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:26:25 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:8ksu209lire1jkptdcm8hgm69eqi24ujah@4ax.com:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:36:14 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:3ffs20dio54bvtrqvm9oel1bq3o0evc5nv@4ax.com:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:52:04 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:jgjk20d7988u7uif0s8hs4cti46j2mm2g2@4ax.com:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:05:39 GMT, "Rick"
<hoganrj@bigpond.com> spake thusly:
The reason Easter is not given that name in the bible is
because
it is the Jewish Passover holiday. The irony is that
passover
occurs at exactly the same time that the pagan fertility
celebrations do.
No, that's not true. Acts 12:4 is not discussing the
Passover. That is an error that is perpetrated by
translators who don't study and perpetuated by bad
translations.
http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjveaster.html
So how ARE we to translate "pascha?" Which is translated
everywhere ELSE in the KJV with "passover." And which word is
used in every Greek text of Acts 12:4 that *I* could find
(which
is quite a number of them actually. dating from the 4th century
onward).
The man who invented the English word, "Passover", was,
I believe, William Tyndale. He chose Easter, when he
translated his Bible. Wouldn't the man who invented
the word, know?
Not necessarily.
The fact is, that Passover already went by. The
Passover is one evening meal, followed by the week of
Unleavened Bread. Knowing this, ask yourself why Herod
would wait for what had already taken place. Verse 3
tells us that it is already into the week of Unleavened
Bread.
Whatever. The WORD USED is tranlated “passover” in the entire
rest
of the KJV!
That doesn't matter. There are many words in the
original languages that are translated as different
English words, depending on the context. You are not
bothering to read what I wrote carefully. I will say
it again...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
Acts 12:3-4
3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded
further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of
unleavened bread.)
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him
in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of
soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring
him forth to the people.
So?
You’re trying to make ancient Greek scripture invoke a holiday
that
was of pagan Anglo-Saxon origin and probably wasn’t even
celebrated
by THEM until some hundreds of years later.
In other words, you don't know when it was that they
started celebrating it. You don't have the facts, but
you will tell me I'm wrong and then claim that I am
using, "trashy scholarship"?
Typical bibliolatrous trashy scholarship, IMO.
See above.
Whatever.....you're just using this as an excuse to invoke your
prejudice against the use of the word "Easter" as a Christian
holiday.
But the fact is it's become one by coincidence. Nobody is out
there
on Easter Sunday extolling the virtues of some pagan deity. The
worst
that happens is that non-Christians go egg-hunting instead of to
church.
Yes and we all know that's what Jesus did, right?
Nope....being a good Jew, he celebrated Passover with his friends.
Which in this case, had already passed.
You still have not answered my question...
Ask yourself why Herod would wait for what had already
taken place?
Maybe he was waiting until the unleavened bread thing is over. It's
all
part of the Passover season.
"Maybe"? You stress how I am wrong, period and your
response to a request to refute my position, is
"maybe"? "Maybe he was waiting until the unleavened
bread THING is over"? You're not even sure what it is
and you tell me I am wrong, period? I don't say this
I tell you that you are wrong because you are insisting that somehow,
this particular Hebrew-derived Greek word that is used here is different
in this context from every other time it is used in scripture.
And the only reason that you insist is that you have this idolatrous
doctrine about the KJV.
to attempt to humiliate you, but rather, to bounce your
own words back at you, in the hope that you will open
your heart to the idea that maybe you shouldn't condemn
a statement without researching the issue carefully
first. You based your whole argument on the fact that
Don't bother your head about me, Pastor. There is absolutely NO POINT in
you trying to infect me with your heresies.
the same word is used for Passover in the Bible. That
is true, but then, there are a number of Hebrew and
Greek words that are translated into different English
words, depending on the context. In this context,
Except THIS particular Greek word is derived from the Hebrew and
specifically refers to the holiday we call, in English, Passover.
You can twist it and jump all over it any way you want. But all you'll be
doing is proving for me, and everyone else concerned, that you worship,
not God, not Jesus Christ, but a book, and not even the book as it is,
but the book as you imagine it to be.
"Passover" is not an appropriate translation, because
it had already gone by. William Tyndale, who coined
the word, "Passover", did not use it in his
translation, but rather, chose "Easter", recognizing
this. So no, the KJV is not alone in the use of the
word "Easter" here.
Whatever. Tyndale was wrong. The KJV committee was wrong and YOU are
wrong. But then you don't worship God, you worship your antique English
Bibles. And you will insist that everyone else must be equally
idolatrous or you wil | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
