| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Kawosa" |
| Date: |
03 Nov 2005 09:05:09 PM |
| Object: |
Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? |
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,
Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou
forsaken me?
How is the above statement that Jesus made on the cross, explained?
Or at least, what are the best guesses you have heard?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? |
04 Nov 2005 12:10:21 AM |
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#Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying,
#Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast
thou
#forsaken me?
#How is the above statement that Jesus made on the cross, explained?
Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament Psalms (Ps 22:1).
#Or at least, what are the best guesses you have heard?
The best explaination is Isaiah 53.
Chuch Smith is a great Bible expositor, and has a study on
Mt 27-28
http://twft.com/c2000_nav.html
The grace of God be with you.
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| User: "stone" |
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| Title: Re: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? |
20 Nov 2005 01:12:53 AM |
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Kawosa wrote in message ...
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,
Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou
forsaken me?
How is the above statement that Jesus made on the cross, explained?
Or at least, what are the best guesses you have heard?
On the cross Jesus was dying to pay for the sins of the world. God forsakes
people that deliberately go into a life of sin, and they become spiritually
dead. Jesus did not commit any sins, but on the cross, He took on Himself
the punishment for the sins of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;
that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one
to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to
grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his]
seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall
prosper in his hand.
Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be
satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he
shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and
he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his
soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the
sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
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| User: "Jim Ledford" |
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| Title: Re: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? |
20 Nov 2005 10:56:48 AM |
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stone wrote:
Kawosa wrote in message ...
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,
Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou
forsaken me?
How is the above statement that Jesus made on the cross, explained?
Or at least, what are the best guesses you have heard?
On the cross Jesus was dying to pay for the sins of the world. God forsakes
people that deliberately go into a life of sin, and they become spiritually
dead. Jesus did not commit any sins, but on the cross, He took on Himself
the punishment for the sins of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;
that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one
to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to
grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his]
seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall
prosper in his hand.
Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be
satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he
shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and
he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his
soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the
sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
first we need to accept how the Word of The Lord God Almighty
is perfectly complete in His KJ Bible and completely prefect.
having done that by faith and faith alone we then must turn to
the [Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost, the Comforter] for interpretation
and understanding.
John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father
will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and
bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have
said unto you.
the following verse [Heb 13:5] causes confusion for those
who don't realize God is talking to us His children. God
is not talking to Himself and thus His Word on the matter
is completely the truth.
Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness;
and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath
said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
further more, the wording "without covetousness" is an
explication of exactly how it is that God Himself is
talking to ALL of His children. the message is meant
for us all. each and everyone of us. God loves us all
with equal equality an therefore we need not covet a
brother's blessings or fellowship with God for the truth
is, God is right there beside you now.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if
any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come
in to him, and will sup with him and he with me.
what is death? let us look at what and how God defined
the matter. and with the Comforter to guide our hearts
towards the truth we each ask Lord teach us to know your
Word and your will. A-Men.
we believe death to be a place without God's presence.
God's choice, God's deciding and God's power created
this place where God is not and will not be.
if we humans choose a life without God then we are
choosing death, eternal death is simply a place where
God is not.
through [God in the flesh] - Jesus, we can receive
eternal life and that is choosing an eternity with
God. God is a living God filled with Love and all
the goodness we humans see, feel and know in this
physical portion of our eternal existence.
our souls are eternal. by our choice to receive
Jesus we receive eternal life with God. those who
reject the salvation given by [God in the flesh] -
Jesus, are choosing an eternity without God.
in order for God's Word to remain true and correct
then a part of what [God in the flesh] - Jesus had
to experience was ([death] i.e. - a place where God is not.)
Jesus is the ONLY one to conquer death! why? first
because Jesus is [God in the flesh], Almighty, All
knowing and ALL loving. second, Jesus experienced
death for us so we don't have to. Jesus paid all for us.
all debt to God is going to be paid in full in accordance
with God's Word.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God
is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
when Jesus took on ALL of the sins of the world i.e. mankind,
Jesus did so in order to pay the debt mankind owes God for
sin. [Rom 6:23] this is why I know [God in the flesh]- Jesus
experienced an amount of time out of the presence of God the Father.
the debt is paid in full and in accordance / conformity with God's
Word. [Rom 6:23]
it is very difficult for 'us' to understand the Trinity.
Trinity - : the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as
three persons in one Godhead.
if you'd asked me about the Trinity 10 years ago, I'd replied
"the three are separate yet but one." that is still my best
explanation.
faith is better than seeking logic
The logical mindset is
'seeing is believing'
while the spiritual mindset is
'believing is seeing!'
if I may repeat the words of a fellow Brother:
Simplistically: Jesus took on the sins of the world and
became the only one God ever turned His back on. At that
moment, God removed His presence and Jesus became the only
one thus far to experience the complete withdrawal of God's
presence.
_________________________________________________
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
_________________________________________________
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? |
04 Nov 2005 01:05:28 PM |
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Kawosa wrote:
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,
Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou
forsaken me?
How is the above statement that Jesus made on the cross, explained?
Or at least, what are the best guesses you have heard?
===>The best guess is, he followed the prophets as a script,
-- riding the donkey, chasing out the merchants, arming his
men to confront the enemy soldiers on the Mount of Olives
where Zechariah said YHWH would descend and fight for his
people against the Gentile enemy.
Instead of victory, he is now hanging on a cross.
Would you not feel forsaken?
The story is written as a Greek Tragedy. -- L.
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| User: "Milan" |
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| Title: Re: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? |
04 Nov 2005 02:24:16 PM |
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"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:436BB0F8.35555E68@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Kawosa wrote:
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying,
Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast
thou
forsaken me?
How is the above statement that Jesus made on the cross, explained?
Or at least, what are the best guesses you have heard?
===>The best guess is, he followed the prophets as a script,
-- riding the donkey, chasing out the merchants, arming his
men to confront the enemy soldiers on the Mount of Olives
where Zechariah said YHWH would descend and fight for his
people against the Gentile enemy.
Instead of victory, he is now hanging on a cross.
Would you not feel forsaken?
The story is written as a Greek Tragedy. -- L.
Sorry, but this rational explanations will not wash in this ng. Try
something else.
regards
Milan
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? |
04 Nov 2005 02:48:11 PM |
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Milan wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:436BB0F8.35555E68@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Kawosa wrote:
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying,
Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast
thou
forsaken me?
How is the above statement that Jesus made on the cross, explained?
Or at least, what are the best guesses you have heard?
===>The best guess is, he followed the prophets as a script,
-- riding the donkey, chasing out the merchants, arming his
men to confront the enemy soldiers on the Mount of Olives
where Zechariah said YHWH would descend and fight for his
people against the Gentile enemy.
Instead of victory, he is now hanging on a cross.
Would you not feel forsaken?
The story is written as a Greek Tragedy. -- L.
Sorry, but this rational explanations will not wash in this ng. Try
something else.
===>Why does it have to "wash"???
The important thing is, it makes sense in terms of the
IESOUS story. -- L.
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| User: "Kawosa" |
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| Title: Re: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? |
04 Nov 2005 09:58:32 PM |
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Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
news:436BB0F8.35555E68@Nothing_But_The.Truth:
Kawosa wrote:
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
How is the above statement that Jesus made on the cross, explained?
Or at least, what are the best guesses you have heard?
===>The best guess is, he followed the prophets as a script,
-- riding the donkey, chasing out the merchants, arming his
men to confront the enemy soldiers on the Mount of Olives
where Zechariah said YHWH would descend and fight for his
people against the Gentile enemy.
Instead of victory, he is now hanging on a cross.
Would you not feel forsaken?
The story is written as a Greek Tragedy. -- L.
But, but, but.
The cross was the victory, was it not?
Did Jesus not know He was on the mission of His Father?
Did He not know of the great pain before Him?
Did He not know of the great riches that awaited Him?
Did the Father really forsake Jesus at death?
Matthew Henry:
But, Why has though forsaken me? is the language of a heart binding up
its happiness in God's favour. (3.) When we are lamenting God's
withdrawings, yet still we must call him our God, and continue to call
upon him as ours. When we want the faith of assurance we must live by a
faith of adherence. “However it be, yet God is good, and he is mine;
though he slay me, yet I trust in him; though he do not answer me
immediately, I will continue praying and waiting; though he be silent, I
will not be silent.”
Do you often choose to pretend this verse doesn't exist? It ain't right
to pick and choose only your comforts in the Bible!
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| User: "Milan" |
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| Title: Re: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? |
05 Nov 2005 08:15:23 AM |
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"Kawosa" <kawosa@email.coma> wrote in message
news:Xns9704DF8B889FCkawomailcoma@207.115.63.158...
Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
news:436BB0F8.35555E68@Nothing_But_The.Truth:
Kawosa wrote:
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
How is the above statement that Jesus made on the cross, explained?
Or at least, what are the best guesses you have heard?
===>The best guess is, he followed the prophets as a script,
-- riding the donkey, chasing out the merchants, arming his
men to confront the enemy soldiers on the Mount of Olives
where Zechariah said YHWH would descend and fight for his
people against the Gentile enemy.
Instead of victory, he is now hanging on a cross.
Would you not feel forsaken?
The story is written as a Greek Tragedy. -- L.
But, but, but.
The cross was the victory, was it not?
Did Jesus not know He was on the mission of His Father?
Did He not know of the great pain before Him?
Did He not know of the great riches that awaited Him?
Did the Father really forsake Jesus at death?
Matthew Henry:
But, Why has though forsaken me? is the language of a heart binding up
its happiness in God's favour. (3.) When we are lamenting God's
withdrawings, yet still we must call him our God, and continue to call
upon him as ours. When we want the faith of assurance we must live by a
faith of adherence. "However it be, yet God is good, and he is mine;
though he slay me, yet I trust in him; though he do not answer me
immediately, I will continue praying and waiting; though he be silent, I
will not be silent."
Do you often choose to pretend this verse doesn't exist? It ain't right
to pick and choose only your comforts in the Bible!
I dont think this argument makes any sense. One thing is to pray -to declare
one is forsaken by god is quite another. If Jesus knew his fate, then why
did he feel forsaken? It suggests that he expected a different outcome from
the one that took place.
regards
Milan
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? |
05 Nov 2005 02:23:38 PM |
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Milan wrote:
"Kawosa" <kawosa@email.coma> wrote in message
news:Xns9704DF8B889FCkawomailcoma@207.115.63.158...
Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
news:436BB0F8.35555E68@Nothing_But_The.Truth:
Kawosa wrote:
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
How is the above statement that Jesus made on the cross, explained?
Or at least, what are the best guesses you have heard?
===>The best guess is, he followed the prophets as a script,
-- riding the donkey, chasing out the merchants, arming his
men to confront the enemy soldiers on the Mount of Olives
where Zechariah said YHWH would descend and fight for his
people against the Gentile enemy.
Instead of victory, he is now hanging on a cross.
Would you not feel forsaken?
The story is written as a Greek Tragedy. -- L.
But, but, but.
The cross was the victory, was it not?
Did Jesus not know He was on the mission of His Father?
Did He not know of the great pain before Him?
Did He not know of the great riches that awaited Him?
Did the Father really forsake Jesus at death?
Matthew Henry:
But, Why has though forsaken me? is the language of a heart binding up
its happiness in God's favour. (3.) When we are lamenting God's
withdrawings, yet still we must call him our God, and continue to call
upon him as ours. When we want the faith of assurance we must live by a
faith of adherence. "However it be, yet God is good, and he is mine;
though he slay me, yet I trust in him; though he do not answer me
immediately, I will continue praying and waiting; though he be silent, I
will not be silent."
Do you often choose to pretend this verse doesn't exist? It ain't right
to pick and choose only your comforts in the Bible!
I dont think this argument makes any sense. One thing is to pray -to declare
one is forsaken by god is quite another. If Jesus knew his fate, then why
did he feel forsaken? It suggests that he expected a different outcome from
the one that took place.
===>Of course. If you believe the story, he
had also led his followers to believe so:
"But we were hoping that it was He
who was going to liberate Israel."
(Luke 24:21). -- L.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? |
05 Nov 2005 02:17:55 PM |
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Kawosa wrote:
Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
news:436BB0F8.35555E68@Nothing_But_The.Truth:
Kawosa wrote:
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
How is the above statement that Jesus made on the cross, explained?
Or at least, what are the best guesses you have heard?
===>The best guess is, he followed the prophets as a script,
-- riding the donkey, chasing out the merchants, arming his
men to confront the enemy soldiers on the Mount of Olives
where Zechariah said YHWH would descend and fight for his
people against the Gentile enemy.
Instead of victory, he is now hanging on a cross.
Would you not feel forsaken?
The story is written as a Greek Tragedy. -- L.
But, but, but.
The cross was the victory, was it not?
===>Only in the "newspeak" of Saul/Paul.
Did Jesus not know He was on the mission of His Father?
===>No. He thought he was going to be king.
Did He not know of the great pain before Him?
===>No. He thought he was going to be king.
Did He not know of the great riches that awaited Him?
===>WHAT "riches"?
The worms in his tomb?
Did the Father really forsake Jesus at death?
===>No, the "father" he believed would come to help
him to victory was promised, he thought, by Zechariah,
but in fact did not exist. -- L.
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