| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"St Dog the Wet" |
| Date: |
26 Jun 2006 06:00:54 PM |
| Object: |
END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION |
END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION
Men willingly believe what they wish. Julius Caesar
If these are the last days described by Ezekiel, Daniel and
Hosea; the days immediately prior to the personal appearance of
the son of perdition, just before the return of the Son of God to
defeat His enemy and save His people; then the "strong delusion"
described by Paul should be visible to those who love the Truth.
2 Thes. 2:2-12.
DELUSION
According to Webster, "delusion" means to mislead; as in "to lead
from truth into error." The terms "Delude" and "Deceive" are
synonyms.
What is this Delusion? It is a lie embracing every field of human
endeavor: Philosophy (what people think), Religion (what people
believe) Politics and Economics (how people are conquered and
ruled) and Modern Science (which opposes God). It will lead all
who will not believe the Truth to rebel against God, and death.
John 18:37-38, 2 Peter 2:1-22.
Why would God allow mankind to be deceived by such delusion?
Having the freedom of choice, they chose not to believe the Truth
which has been offered freely to all.
If we love the Truth, we need not fear a lie. As God allowed
Satan to test Job, He let Satan bring this lie upon humanity to
test us. Satan brings this lie upon mankind in an attempt to
destroy the Elect. However, by doing so both he and his followers
are revealed. Job 1:8-12, Mat. 24:24.
THE LIE OF HIDDEN TRUTH
While typing one morning this writer was listening to music on a
religious radio station. An advertiser began speaking, and his
words ruined the atmosphere: "...And you will learn Bible Greek
so well you can get in and dig out the truth."
WHAT?! Is the Truth so well hidden in the Word of God that we
must "get in and dig it out?" Does it take a college education, a
doctorate in "Bible Greek," to be able to find the Truth in God's
Word? Wouldn't a good solid Masters degree in King James English
do just as well? What about a regular Bachelor's degree in
regular American English: would it be possible to find the Truth
in God's Word with that? Well, O.K., perhaps one would need a
minor in Philosophy and "Religions of the World."
Is there no hope (of finding the Truth hidden in God's Word) for
the common man who only has a High School diploma? And what of
the self-taught: just barely able to read? Must the common man
and the unlearned depend upon The Learned with Doctorates in
"Bible Greek" for the Truth? Acts 4:13, 1 John 4:1.
Where is it written that Truth is so well hidden by God the
common man and woman has no hope of finding it? Did Y'shua speak
only to the intelligent and educated people of His day, knowing
the uneducated plain folks couldn't understand Him anyway? No. He
spoke to simple fishermen and carpenters, thieves and harlots.
The "Learned" rejected Him, just as they do today. Mat. 21:31-32,
Luke 11:52.
Did God say the Truth was hidden in His Word? If so, where is it
written, and from whom is it hidden? Is the lie, "the Truth is
hidden from God's people," from Satan?
TWO KINDS OF WISDOM
The Lord has clearly indicated there are two kinds of wisdom. The
first comes from God. Ps. 111:10, Pro. 2:6, 8:1 to 9:10, James
1:5. The wisdom to understand the Word of God is a gift from God.
Dan. 2:21-23, 1 Cor. 12:8, James 1:5. Ecc. 2:26, 1 Kings 3:5-15.
Just as man cannot earn salvation, neither can a man earn wisdom.
Man is saved by the grace and mercy of God: not by his own
efforts. "But we are saved by faith." True: and that is the way
we receive wisdom and understanding: by faith. "If any man lack
wisdom, let him ask God, that giveth to all men liberally, and
upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in
faith..." James 1:5. God Himself will give us the understanding
of His Word. We do not need to know "Bible Greek" or depend on
Theologians for it.
The second is false wisdom. It is the kind a man earns for
himself, or gets from that source other than God. Exo. 7:11, Dan.
2:2. The wisdom of man is to be confused and made useless. "I
will destroy the wisdom of the wise." 1 Cor. 1:19, 27, Isa. 29 :14.
HISTORY OF DELUSION
Where did the idea `wise' men could figure out God's "hidden
truth" come from? Who would prefer that common men believe Truth
was beyond their understanding? Who would benefit if men believed
this lie? Satan: and those who count themselves intelligent,
wise, educated and full of understanding; who make themselves
rich by selling explanations of "hidden truth."
Does every good and perfect gift, including Truth and Wisdom,
come from God? Where, then, does all which opposes God come from?
Satan.
This lie of hidden truth is an old one. It goes back to a King
named Nimrod, and his kingdom of Babylon. The `wise' men of
Babylon were Astrologers, Chaldeans, Magi and Sorcerers. It was
these `wise men' who gave us the idea of hidden wisdom, and they
got it from Satan. It is by Satan's power the magicians do signs
and wonders, and they receive their `wisdom' from him.
When Aaron threw down Moses’ staff, and it became a serpent, did
not Pharaoh's wise men do the same? Yes. By who's power? Satan's.
Dan. 2:2, 8:25. Exo. 7:10-12.
At the time Daniel served in Babylon, the King's advisors were
Magi, Astrologers and Sorcerers. The Babylonian empire fell to
Medo-Persia, which fell to Alexander. At the time of his death
the Grecian Empire was divided between his four generals. Rome
rose out of one them to rule the world.
What happened to the wise men? They went with the flow of
civilization. First to Persia, then to Greece, then to Rome, then
finally back to Babylon.
SOURCE OF MODERN SCIENCE
The "wise men" and their method of gaining wealth and power can
be followed through the world's empires from Babylon to Babylon.
Consider: What is astrology? The study of the stars and the
influence they have over the fate of men. Where did modern
Astronomy come? From Astrology. Astrology is from Satan and
opposes God. Modern Astronomy and Cosmology deny the God of
Creation and espouse the gods of Evolution, "Big Bang" expanding
universe and multi-reality theories. Who is an anti-Christ? 1
John 2:18.
Who is an Alchemist? One who believes it possible to change one
element into another. They serve Satan. Where did nuclear
Chemists come from? From Alchemists. They have given us such
blessings as PCB, DDT, Dioxin and the nuclear warhead. These men
deny the God of Creation, and praise the god of accidental random
chance origin and Evolution. Who is an anti-Christ? 1 John 2:22.
What does a Numerologist do? He studies numbers for hidden
knowledge to forecast the future. He throws dice or rolls bones
and gets his hidden knowledge from Satan. What are Statisticians,
Mathematicians and Actuaries? Men who study numbers for hidden
trends by which they can forecast the future. Rather than roll
bones these wise men toss numbers through computers.
Pythagorean-mathematician-numerologists tell us it is not
possible that God created the universe in just six working days,
but they praise the god of chaos who, they proudly proclaim, can
do anything if given billions and billions and billions and
billions and billions and billions and billions and billions and
billions and billions and billions and billions and billions and
billions of years. Who is an anti-Christ? 1 John 4:1-3.
What about the Sorcerers and Magicians? They use chants and
secret potions to influence hidden forces to produce benefits for
those who have enough cash. They received their knowledge of
these "secret potions" and forces from Satan. Although these men
and women have changed their names, like Astrologers and
Pythagoreans, they are still with us. We find their potions on
modern store shelves promising everything from removing (or
growing) hair to winning friends and lovers. Many even use the
word MAGIC on the label. Who is an anti-Christ?
NEW NAMES FOR OLD LIES
Early Christians burned books of magic and sorcery. Acts 19:19.
The practitioners of the Dark Arts went into hiding as
Christianity rose to power. Where did they hide? In nations ruled
by those who oppose God. Where did the Renaissance begin. This is
not to imply it was a bad thing--not at all. The Magi recognized
a good thing and took advantage of it. It began in the seat of
the anti-Christ: Rome.
Around the 1600's the `wise men' began to change their names.
Astrology became Astronomy. The Alchemists changed their names to
Chemists, the Numerologists to Mathematicians. Practitioners of
the occult arts changed their name from Chaldeans to Natural
Scientists. Then in the 1900's they decided they wanted to be
known as Modern Scientists. Today they prefer to call their dark
art "Technology."
Natural Science grew by practical application to mankind's base
lusts. Modern Science made man healthy, wealthy and (seemingly)
wise. The results of Modern Science were spectacular: Atomic
energy ended a popular war with a fantastic flourish.
Technology's nuclear energy promised (lied) cheap power and
freedom from defeat, and gave modern Babylon the pride of world
domination. Modern medicine cured man's ills, in self proclaimed
"miracle" fashion, and promised much more. All while denouncing God!
THE FRUIT OF TECHNOLOGY
Do not be deceived! Look at the real fruit of Technology.
Chemical contamination which kills rivers, lakes and seas;
nuclear waste which poisons every living thing. The forests die
from acid rain, the air is un-breathable. Has Modern Science done
anything good for mankind if, in the final analysis, the death of
mankind is its crowning achievement?
Do not be deceived! Those who deny God cannot be from God. If
they blaspheme God they must be from Satan. If they destroy
humanity they must be our enemy. Didn't Y'shua tell us the false
prophets would come working false signs and lying wonders? Mat.
24:4, 11, 24.
SIGN OF THE END
"For that day shall not come except there come a falling away
first..." 2 Thes. 2:3. Before The End comes many who have claimed
to be Christians will reject the truth. The wheat will be
separated from the chaff. How? Unable to accept the truth of the
destruction of this world, which they love, they will prefer to
believe Satan's lies of world peace and mankind's ability to save
himself.
Two groups are identified by that verse: those who love Truth,
and those who do not. Truth is the sword by which all are
separated into one group or the other. It is black or white, cut
and dried. "Truth" is the literal Word of God. He said He created
this world in six days. His word is Truth, so He created the
universe in six days, period. He said He would come and this
world would end. His word is Truth, therefore this universe is
little more than ash.
THE MODERN CHURCH
The Church in the New World grew until the 1900's, when it
reached its peak. It began to suffer decline then, falling to
Religious Philosophy in the 1950's and 60's. It fell to the
modern dark arts: intellectualism, Cosmology and Relativity. It
fell to Materialism and the `feel good' religions which promise
success and happiness. It fell to the attack of false prophets
who rose up when Darwin published his lie of evolution: which is
not new, but came from ancient Babylon. ("The waters contained in
themselves the seed of life." LAROUSE WORLD MYTHOLOGY, p. 69.)
They didn't make a frontal attack, saying "there is no God." They
lied, saying, "He didn't actually create the universe in six
literal days, He used evolution, and it took billions of years."
They twisted and distorted His Word to fit their purpose. They
used "one day is as a thousand years" to imply He meant something
different from "there was evening and morning, one day." (Peter
meant God was patient toward sinners.) 2 Peter 3:8-9.
They accused God of being deceptive if He created a stratified
rock, light before stars, or a full grown man and woman. What
unmitigated gall, to put sour for sweet, then commit utter
blasphemy and accuse God of an act of deception!
THE FALLING AWAY
So the well educated religious establishment began to fall away
after 1880, and will continue to fall away. It is time to
separate the chaff from the wheat: those who choose to believe
the lie from those who love the truth. Jude 4. The closer we come
to The End the more extreme the falling away will become.
Then in the 1960's these wise and learned pushers of the religion
of philosophy announced, "God is dead." (TIME, April 8, 1966.)
Now they tell us if we don't have a doctorate in "Bible Greek" we
can't find the Truth in His Word. Luke 11:52.
THE STRONG DELUSION REVEALED
What is the Strong Delusion? It is every lie Satan ever told. He
has lifted up every false god and idol he ever used to deceive
mankind and placed them on new polished plastic pedestals to be
admired by men who are apparently wise and learned. Taoism,
Hinduism, Buddhism; as well as Zoroaster, Tamuz, Ishtar, Mars and
Diana; have all been given new sounding "modern philosophies"
with which to deceive those who love not the Truth. (THE CRACK IN
THE COSMIC EGG, by Joseph C. Pearce. THE HOLY SCIENCE, Swami Sri
Yokteswar, Self Realization Fellowship, 74.)
New sounding lies are just old lies in gift wrap. "Peace comes
out of the barrel of a gun," "religion is philosophy," "what you
believe is truth," "debt is wealth," "man created God," "the
Bible is not God's Word" and "man can determine his own destiny"
are just lies and nothing more.
DIVIDE AND CONQUER
Can a house divided against itself stand? No. So Satan has done
his best to divide the House of God and provoke dissension
between Catholics and Protestants; and all Christians against the
Moslems and Mormons. He attempts to confuse them all with the
Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists--then attack the
weak with Edger Cayce and Jean Dixon. Satan sends false prophets
preaching "Peace, peace," while he practices ideological warfare.
Can a house divided against itself stand? No. So those who
practice abortion and those who believe in reincarnation love
those who preach and practice free love. Those who's security is
in material goods are loved by those who say there is no soul, no
God and no Judgment. Evolution and Technology are at peace with
Tao, Buddha, Zoroaster and Tamuz; and all war against the few who
believe the literal Word of the God of Abraham. Does not the
servant imitate his master? Mat. 10:25, 12:25.
CONCLUSION
After 1880 the false prophets of Evolution and "Big Bang" theory
began to infiltrate our Churches and Church schools. They began
to teach our children, who eventually became our preachers, these
lies of Evolution and the 14 Billion year old universe. Now, for
a full generation, Theologians who are deceived by the Strong
Delusion of Religious Philosophy and Scientific Sophistry have
been teaching us that we must get our understanding of the Word
of God from them. Luke 11:52.
God tells us He will give us the understanding of His Word. Pro.
2:6, 9:10, Ecc. 2:26, Ps. 111:10, 119:33-34, 105. Luke 24:45, 1
Cor. 12:8, James 1:5. Mat. 7:7-11, 10:26. Dan. 12:9-10, Eze. 2:9
to 3:3, Rev. 1:1, 10:7-10.
So that the wheat may be separated from the chaff, we must choose
who we believe.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION |
27 Jun 2006 08:17:27 AM |
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On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:00:54 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION
Men willingly believe what they wish. Julius Caesar
If these are the last days described by Ezekiel, Daniel and
Hosea;
They are not. They passed already. Jesus said
in Luke 21:20-22 that "all things written" would
be fulfilled, when Jerusalem was surrounded
and desolated and that happened in 70 AD.
So how could these writings not already be fulfilled?
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
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"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
The Last Days were in the first century:
Matthew 3:7,10,12
7) But when He saw many of the Pharisees and
Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto
THEM, O GENERATION of vipers, who hath warned
YOU to flee from the wrath to come?
10) And NOW also the axe is laid unto the root
of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth
not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into
the fire.
12) Whose fan is in his hand, and he will
throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat
into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff
with unquenchable fire.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION |
09 Oct 2006 06:13:50 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <zananias917z@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rsb2a2hfroor1gs6iv4151eppt1stmbn3g@4ax.com...
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:00:54 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION
Men willingly believe what they wish. Julius Caesar
If these are the last days described by Ezekiel, Daniel and
Hosea;
They are not. They passed already. Jesus said
in Luke 21:20-22 that "all things written" would
be fulfilled, when Jerusalem was surrounded
and desolated and that happened in 70 AD.
So how could these writings not already be fulfilled?
Easy, people are still dying, getting sick, hungry, thirsty, homeless
(without mansions)....
<snip>
....12) Whose fan is in his hand, and he will
throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat
into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff
with unquenchable fire.
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| User: "St Dog the Wet" |
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| Title: Re: END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION |
27 Jun 2006 09:16:36 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:00:54 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION
Men willingly believe what they wish. Julius Caesar
If these are the last days described by Ezekiel, Daniel and
Hosea;
They are not. They passed already. Jesus said
in Luke 21:20-22 that "all things written" would
be fulfilled, when Jerusalem was surrounded
and desolated and that happened in 70 AD.
So how could these writings not already be fulfilled?
What did Jesus mean when He said, "these are the days of
vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."
Luke 21:22
It has been suggested that the "all things which are written" may
mean "all" prophecy. That interpretation should be possible to
verify by examining specific prophecy which should be apparent by
its fulfillment--or lack of fulfillment.
If the meaning is "All" prophecy, then there are prophecies which
have time periods and clearly described events which must be
fulfilled. The first which comes to my mind is the 70 "weeks"
time period given by Daniel 9:27. The Abomination was to be set
up after a conformation of the covenant for three and a half
years, then it was three and a half years to the consummation.
Prophecy of this event is repeated in 2 Thes 2:4 and Rev 11:7,
13:4-6.
There is no record of this prophecy being fulfilled. There are,
in fact, many other prophecies which can be shown to be not yet
fulfilled. There is "still to be fulfilled" prophecy; therefore
the meaning of Luke 21:22 cannot be "all" prophecy.
The simplest explanation is that the meaning is in the context:
that is; "these are the days of vengeance" would explained by the
relationship of the events of "these days," and the "vengeance"
related to those events.
The evidence is; that the meaning of this word of God is that all
prophecy concerning vengeance for the rejection of the Lamb of
God would be taken on the city of Jerusalem.
When the people demanded the crucifixion of Christ:
"Then answered all the people, and said, 'His blood be on us, and
on our children.'" Mat 27:25. Their words proved to be prophetic.
They Rejected Him:
They have belied the LORD, and said, It is not he; neither shall
evil come upon us; neither shall we see sword nor famine. Jer
5:12-19.
And Jesus' Prophecy:
"Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and
scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of
them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from
city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed
upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood
of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple
and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come
upon this generation." Mat 23:34-36.
First Century Christians Marked:
"And the LORD said unto him, 'Go through the midst of the city,
through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads
of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that
be done in the midst thereof.
And to the others he said in mine hearing, 'Go ye after him
through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have
ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little
children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the
mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient
men which were before the house." Eze 8:1-18, 9:1-11.
Titus:
Dan 9:26 "And the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be
with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are
determined." And, "...he shall stand in the glorious land, which
by his hand shall be consumed." Dan 11:14-16
Judah and Levi:
Zec. 11:9-14 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth,
let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off;
and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I
might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock
that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and
if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of
silver.
13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly
price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces
of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might
break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst
of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall
hearken... Joh 5:46, Deu 18:15-19, Acts 3:22-23.
"But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your
children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which
I have set before you... Then will I cut off Israel out of the
land which I have given them..." 1 Kings 9:5-9, Mal 3:1-5
Jeremiah 9:9-16 "Shall I not visit them for these things? saith
the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?"
owd
-+-
"Preterist Questions Answered"
http://geocities.com/gaedhealic/questions.html
..
"There is no sound exegetical basis for the Preterist doctrine"
..
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION |
28 Jun 2006 07:23:33 AM |
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On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 07:16:36 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:00:54 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION
Men willingly believe what they wish. Julius Caesar
If these are the last days described by Ezekiel, Daniel and
Hosea;
They are not. They passed already. Jesus said
in Luke 21:20-22 that "all things written" would
be fulfilled, when Jerusalem was surrounded
and desolated and that happened in 70 AD.
So how could these writings not already be fulfilled?
What did Jesus mean when He said, "these are the days of
vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."
Luke 21:22
It has been suggested that the "all things which are written" may
mean "all" prophecy. That interpretation should be possible to
verify by examining specific prophecy which should be apparent by
its fulfillment--or lack of fulfillment.
If the meaning is "All" prophecy, then there are prophecies which
have time periods and clearly described events which must be
fulfilled.
Trying to explain it away, won't help you.
Jesus said "all things written". There is
no getting around that.
This is an example of what you label, "sophistry".
The first which comes to my mind is the 70 "weeks"
time period given by Daniel 9:27. The Abomination was to be set
up after a conformation of the covenant for three and a half
years, then it was three and a half years to the consummation.
Prophecy of this event is repeated in 2 Thes 2:4 and Rev 11:7,
13:4-6.
There is no record of this prophecy being fulfilled.
If that is true, then Jesus lied, or was simply wrong.
Of course, some may choose to believe Jesus and
decide that YOU are lying, or that YOU are wrong
about the understanding of these prophecies.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
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"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
"Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party
it injures, so that society has to take the place
of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement
or grant forgiveness; it is the one crime in which
society has a direct interest." - W. H. Auden
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| User: "www.pulpitfire.org" |
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| Title: Re: END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION |
28 Jun 2006 07:40:36 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
Jesus said "all things written". There is
no getting around that.
First of all, what happened to your Agent 3.2? You're now posting with
1.93.
Second, I know you think you've refuted the argument below, but for the
sake of those who have not yet read the previous reply:
Ac 13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they
took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
Does this passage, because it uses the phrase "all that was written",
teach the crucifixion of Christ fulfills absolutely every prophecy
written about Him, period, or all things regarding that specific event?
It does not refer to every prophecy, but to all that was written
regarding the specific event of his burial.
Or again:
Joh 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now
accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
Were absolutely "all things" accomplished when Christ said He thirsted,
period, or was it all things pertaining to this specific event? Saying
He thirsted did NOT accomplish "all things" that were to ever to be
accomplished by Christ, but all things pertaining to that aspect of His
crucifixion.
The destruction of Jerusalem, in A.D. 70, fulfills all that was written
regarding "that" prophecy, not all prophecies in the Bible. I know you
think you have refuted the above argument, but I find your attempts
unconvincing.
--
=============================================
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this finished work alone for salvation (1 Cor. 15:1-3;
Eph. 2:8-10). www.pulpitfire.org
=============================================
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a
son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being
interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:23
=============================================
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "St Dog the Wet" |
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| Title: Re: END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION |
28 Jun 2006 01:44:43 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 07:16:36 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:00:54 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION
Men willingly believe what they wish. Julius Caesar
If these are the last days described by Ezekiel, Daniel and
Hosea;
They are not. They passed already. Jesus said
in Luke 21:20-22 that "all things written" would
be fulfilled, when Jerusalem was surrounded
and desolated and that happened in 70 AD.
So how could these writings not already be fulfilled?
What did Jesus mean when He said, "these are the days of
vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."
Luke 21:22
It has been suggested that the "all things which are written" may
mean "all" prophecy. That interpretation should be possible to
verify by examining specific prophecy which should be apparent by
its fulfillment--or lack of fulfillment.
If the meaning is "All" prophecy, then there are prophecies which
have time periods and clearly described events which must be
fulfilled.
Trying to explain it away, won't help you.
Jesus said "all things written". There is
no getting around that.
Of course there is "no getting around it" -- which proves your
avoiding the context of His words results in a lie -- your lie.
Now, IF (if) you care about Truth, you will consider Jesus' words
in the _context_ in which He spoke them....
What did Jesus mean when He said, "these are the days of
vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."
Luke 21:22
It has been suggested that the "all things which are written" may
mean "all" prophecy. That interpretation should be possible to
verify by examining specific prophecy which should be apparent by
its fulfillment--or lack of fulfillment.
If the meaning is "All" prophecy, then there are prophecies which
have time periods and clearly described events which must be
fulfilled. The first which comes to my mind is the 70 "weeks"
time period given by Daniel 9:27. The Abomination was to be set
up after a conformation of the covenant for three and a half
years, then it was three and a half years to the consummation.
Prophecy of this event is repeated in 2 Thes 2:4 and Rev 11:7,
13:4-6.
There is no record of this prophecy being fulfilled. There are,
in fact, many other prophecies which can be shown to be not yet
fulfilled. There is "still to be fulfilled" prophecy; therefore
the meaning of Luke 21:22 cannot be "all" prophecy.
The simplest explanation is that the meaning is in the context:
that is; "these are the days of vengeance" would explained by the
relationship of the events of "these days," and the "vengeance"
related to those events.
The evidence is; that the meaning of this word of God is that all
prophecy concerning vengeance for the rejection of the Lamb of
God would be taken on the city of Jerusalem.
When the people demanded the crucifixion of Christ:
"Then answered all the people, and said, 'His blood be on us, and
on our children.'" Mat 27:25. Their words proved to be prophetic.
They Rejected Him:
They have belied the LORD, and said, It is not he; neither shall
evil come upon us; neither shall we see sword nor famine. Jer
5:12-19.
And Jesus' Prophecy:
"Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and
scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of
them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from
city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed
upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood
of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple
and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come
upon this generation." Mat 23:34-36.
First Century Christians Marked:
"And the LORD said unto him, 'Go through the midst of the city,
through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads
of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that
be done in the midst thereof.
And to the others he said in mine hearing, 'Go ye after him
through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have
ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little
children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the
mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient
men which were before the house." Eze 8:1-18, 9:1-11.
Titus:
Dan 9:26 "And the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be
with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are
determined." And, "...he shall stand in the glorious land, which
by his hand shall be consumed." Dan 11:14-16
Judah and Levi:
Zec. 11:9-14 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth,
let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off;
and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I
might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock
that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and
if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of
silver.
13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly
price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces
of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might
break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst
of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall
hearken... Joh 5:46, Deu 18:15-19, Acts 3:22-23.
"But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your
children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which
I have set before you... Then will I cut off Israel out of the
land which I have given them..." 1 Kings 9:5-9, Mal 3:1-5
Jeremiah 9:9-16 "Shall I not visit them for these things? saith
the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?"
owd
-+-
"Preterist Questions Answered"
http://geocities.com/gaedhealic/questions.html
..
"There is no sound exegetical basis for the Preterist doctrine"
..
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION |
28 Jun 2006 03:40:35 PM |
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:44:43 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 07:16:36 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:00:54 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION
Men willingly believe what they wish. Julius Caesar
If these are the last days described by Ezekiel, Daniel and
Hosea;
They are not. They passed already. Jesus said
in Luke 21:20-22 that "all things written" would
be fulfilled, when Jerusalem was surrounded
and desolated and that happened in 70 AD.
So how could these writings not already be fulfilled?
What did Jesus mean when He said, "these are the days of
vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."
Luke 21:22
It has been suggested that the "all things which are written" may
mean "all" prophecy. That interpretation should be possible to
verify by examining specific prophecy which should be apparent by
its fulfillment--or lack of fulfillment.
If the meaning is "All" prophecy, then there are prophecies which
have time periods and clearly described events which must be
fulfilled.
Trying to explain it away, won't help you.
Jesus said "all things written". There is
no getting around that.
Of course there is "no getting around it" -- which proves your
avoiding the context of His words results in a lie -- your lie.
Now, IF (if) you care about Truth, you will consider Jesus' words
in the _context_ in which He spoke them....
The context was "all things written". Perhaps you are
too stubborn, vain and stupid to admit that, but He
said what He said.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
/
/
<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
\
\
O
"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
"Christians, keep the faith -- but not from others!"
.
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| User: "St Dog the Wet" |
|
| Title: Re: END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION |
28 Jun 2006 05:36:07 PM |
|
|
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:44:43 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 07:16:36 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:00:54 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION
Men willingly believe what they wish. Julius Caesar
If these are the last days described by Ezekiel, Daniel and
Hosea;
They are not. They passed already. Jesus said
in Luke 21:20-22 that "all things written" would
be fulfilled, when Jerusalem was surrounded
and desolated and that happened in 70 AD.
So how could these writings not already be fulfilled?
What did Jesus mean when He said, "these are the days of
vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."
Luke 21:22
It has been suggested that the "all things which are written" may
mean "all" prophecy. That interpretation should be possible to
verify by examining specific prophecy which should be apparent by
its fulfillment--or lack of fulfillment.
If the meaning is "All" prophecy, then there are prophecies which
have time periods and clearly described events which must be
fulfilled.
Trying to explain it away, won't help you.
Jesus said "all things written". There is
no getting around that.
Of course there is "no getting around it" -- which proves your
avoiding the context of His words results in a lie -- your lie.
Now, IF (if) you care about Truth, you will consider Jesus' words
in the _context_ in which He spoke them....
The context was "all things written". Perhaps you are
too stubborn, vain and stupid to admit that, but He
said what He said.
The statement is "all things which are written"
The question is "written about what"??
The context is "the destruction of Jerusalem"
The answer is "all things which are written about the destruction
of Jerusalem."
But Preterists refuse to consider that, because it brings their
false doctrine crashing down in dust and ash.
-+-
What did Jesus mean when He said, "these are the days of
vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."
Luke 21:22
It has been suggested that the "all things which are written" may
mean "all" prophecy. That interpretation should be possible to
verify by examining specific prophecy which should be apparent by
its fulfillment--or lack of fulfillment.
If the meaning is "All" prophecy, then there are prophecies which
have time periods and clearly described events which must be
fulfilled. The first which comes to my mind is the 70 "weeks"
time period given by Daniel 9:27. The Abomination was to be set
up after a conformation of the covenant for three and a half
years, then it was three and a half years to the consummation.
Prophecy of this event is repeated in 2 Thes 2:4 and Rev 11:7,
13:4-6.
There is no record of this prophecy being fulfilled. There are,
in fact, many other prophecies which can be shown to be not yet
fulfilled. There is "still to be fulfilled" prophecy; therefore
the meaning of Luke 21:22 cannot be "all" prophecy.
The simplest explanation is that the meaning is in the context:
that is; "these are the days of vengeance" would explained by the
relationship of the events of "these days," and the "vengeance"
related to those events.
The evidence is; that the meaning of this word of God is that all
prophecy concerning vengeance for the rejection of the Lamb of
God would be taken on the city of Jerusalem.
When the people demanded the crucifixion of Christ:
"Then answered all the people, and said, 'His blood be on us, and
on our children.'" Mat 27:25. Their words proved to be prophetic.
They Rejected Him:
They have belied the LORD, and said, It is not he; neither shall
evil come upon us; neither shall we see sword nor famine. Jer
5:12-19.
And Jesus' Prophecy:
"Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and
scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of
them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from
city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed
upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood
of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple
and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come
upon this generation." Mat 23:34-36.
First Century Christians Marked:
"And the LORD said unto him, 'Go through the midst of the city,
through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads
of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that
be done in the midst thereof.
And to the others he said in mine hearing, 'Go ye after him
through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have
ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little
children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the
mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient
men which were before the house." Eze 8:1-18, 9:1-11.
Titus:
Dan 9:26 "And the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be
with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are
determined." And, "...he shall stand in the glorious land, which
by his hand shall be consumed." Dan 11:14-16
Judah and Levi:
Zec. 11:9-14 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth,
let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off;
and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I
might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock
that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and
if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of
silver.
13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly
price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces
of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might
break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst
of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall
hearken... Joh 5:46, Deu 18:15-19, Acts 3:22-23.
"But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your
children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which
I have set before you... Then will I cut off Israel out of the
land which I have given them..." 1 Kings 9:5-9, Mal 3:1-5
Jeremiah 9:9-16 "Shall I not visit them for these things? saith
the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?"
owd
-+-
"Preterist Questions Answered"
http://geocities.com/gaedhealic/questions.html
..
"There is no sound exegetical basis for the Preterist doctrine"
..
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION |
29 Jun 2006 08:16:47 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:36:07 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
The context was "all things written". Perhaps you are
too stubborn, vain and stupid to admit that, but He
said what He said.
The statement is "all things which are written"
The question is "written about what"??
The context is "the destruction of Jerusalem"
The answer is "all things which are written about the destruction
of Jerusalem."
But Preterists refuse to consider that, because it brings their
false doctrine crashing down in dust and ash.
Let's make this about you and me, since you are
trying to insult me.
See the following thread that I just started and
responded to this message there...
GLENN'S SOPHISTRY CLAIMS ON THE END TIMES
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
/
/
<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
\
\
O
"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
http://members.aol.com/trwstrong/straight.html
.
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| User: "St Dog the Wet" |
|
| Title: Re: END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION |
29 Jun 2006 08:50:21 AM |
|
|
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:36:07 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
The context was "all things written". Perhaps you are
too stubborn, vain and stupid to admit that, but He
said what He said.
The statement is "all things which are written"
The question is "written about what"??
The context is "the destruction of Jerusalem"
The answer is "all things which are written about the destruction
of Jerusalem."
But Preterists refuse to consider that, because it brings their
false doctrine crashing down in dust and ash.
Let's make this about you and me,
No, it is NOT about you and me, it is ALL about you
http://tinyurl.com/hxpo7
No, you answer each point in _this_ thread....
thanks.
What did Jesus mean when He said, "these are the days of
vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."
Luke 21:22
It has been suggested that the "all things which are written" may
mean "all" prophecy. That interpretation should be possible to
verify by examining specific prophecy which should be apparent by
its fulfillment--or lack of fulfillment.
If the meaning is "All" prophecy, then there are prophecies which
have time periods and clearly described events which must be
fulfilled. The first which comes to my mind is the 70 "weeks"
time period given by Daniel 9:27. The Abomination was to be set
up after a conformation of the covenant for three and a half
years, then it was three and a half years to the consummation.
Prophecy of this event is repeated in 2 Thes 2:4 and Rev 11:7,
13:4-6.
There is no record of this prophecy being fulfilled. There are,
in fact, many other prophecies which can be shown to be not yet
fulfilled. There is "still to be fulfilled" prophecy; therefore
the meaning of Luke 21:22 cannot be "all" prophecy.
The simplest explanation is that the meaning is in the context:
that is; "these are the days of vengeance" would explained by the
relationship of the events of "these days," and the "vengeance"
related to those events.
The evidence is; that the meaning of this word of God is that all
prophecy concerning vengeance for the rejection of the Lamb of
God would be taken on the city of Jerusalem.
When the people demanded the crucifixion of Christ:
"Then answered all the people, and said, 'His blood be on us, and
on our children.'" Mat 27:25. Their words proved to be prophetic.
They Rejected Him:
They have belied the LORD, and said, It is not he; neither shall
evil come upon us; neither shall we see sword nor famine. Jer
5:12-19.
And Jesus' Prophecy:
"Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and
scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of
them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from
city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed
upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood
of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple
and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come
upon this generation." Mat 23:34-36.
First Century Christians Marked:
"And the LORD said unto him, 'Go through the midst of the city,
through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads
of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that
be done in the midst thereof.
And to the others he said in mine hearing, 'Go ye after him
through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have
ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little
children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the
mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient
men which were before the house." Eze 8:1-18, 9:1-11.
Titus:
Dan 9:26 "And the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be
with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are
determined." And, "...he shall stand in the glorious land, which
by his hand shall be consumed." Dan 11:14-16
Judah and Levi:
Zec. 11:9-14 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth,
let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off;
and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I
might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock
that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and
if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of
silver.
13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly
price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces
of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might
break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst
of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall
hearken... Joh 5:46, Deu 18:15-19, Acts 3:22-23.
"But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your
children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which
I have set before you... Then will I cut off Israel out of the
land which I have given them..." 1 Kings 9:5-9, Mal 3:1-5
Jeremiah 9:9-16 "Shall I not visit them for these things? saith
the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?"
owd
-+-
"Preterist Questions Answered"
http://geocities.com/gaedhealic/questions.html
..
"There is no sound exegetical basis for the Preterist doctrine"
..
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: END TIME SOPHISTRY AND DELUSION |
29 Jun 2006 11:10:53 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:50:21 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:36:07 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
The context was "all things written". Perhaps you are
too stubborn, vain and stupid to admit that, but He
said what He said.
The statement is "all things which are written"
The question is "written about what"??
The context is "the destruction of Jerusalem"
The answer is "all things which are written about the destruction
of Jerusalem."
But Preterists refuse to consider that, because it brings their
false doctrine crashing down in dust and ash.
Let's make this about you and me,
No, it is NOT about you and me, it is ALL about you
http://tinyurl.com/hxpo7
More lies and insults?
No, you answer each point in _this_ thread....
I did. I addressed them specifically three times.
You ignored it and started other threads with
the same crap.
Face it, you are scared Glenn. You saw my message
and you are running from it. You are a coward.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
/
/
<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
\
\
O
"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
Is single parenting something that should be chosen?
While I don't doubt that a single parent can raise
a child, I don't think single parenting gives that
child an advantage.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: GLENN'S SOPHISTRY CLAIMS ON THE END TIMES |
29 Jun 2006 10:23:12 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:36:07 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
I started this thread for you and I. You seek to avoid
my points and insult me instead and that is your method.
And you would do well to read this entire message,
BEFORE RESPONDING. It is a bit long, but I don't
expect you to respond to every single sentence.
I just expect you not to ignore my points.
You keep talking about "sophistry". Yet you always fail
to show how something is "sophistry". You fail to deal
with the points made head on. Rather, you don't address
the points made at all and try to claim that people said
something they never said and always fail to deal with
your own words when they point out where the flaws are
in your argument.
Now Glenn, let's see how honest you are. Let's see if
you can discuss this, head on, without ignoring the other
person. Let's see what you can do with your claims.
And I mean proof, not continual claims and ignoring
any rebuttals. Point by point, head on. That's what is
necessary, if you wish to claim that you are speaking
the truth.
Truth does not run away and it does not hide, so ignoring
my words, will only prove that you are being deceptive
and that you know that you cannot deal with my responses
head on.
I am willing to go back and forth in this debate for as
long as it takes. But let's have a debate and not your
typical method of ignoring what I've said and insulting
me, as you always do and then starting a multitude of
threads, to try to avoid dealing with me head on and
trying to make it so that people see only your words.
And let's leave aside any insults and go head to head
and see whose arguments hold up. Are you ready for
that, Glenn? Or are you a coward? Your response will
tell us for sure.
And I want you to note Glenn, that I used YOUR METHOD
of response below, when I asked you to quote the passages
that say what you claim, since you added to the word of
God. If your "rules" are to be imposed on others by you,
then you should have no problem living with them
yourself. If you can't, then you're only showing that
you know that your method is a sham.
The subject is Luke 21:20-25. You tried to quote only
vs 23-25 and separate them from vs 20-22, but that is
not an honest approach to the text. It is however, the
method that you end timers (futurists) continually use,
quoting only part of a context, or even just part of a
verse, when the rest of the verse shows that it doesn't
mean what you people claim and actually shows the
opposite to be true, such as when you end timers
quote only part of Revelation 1:7.
We will deal with vs 20-25 here and not just the three
verses that you quoted, completely out of context.
Now when I stated what vs 20-22 said, you responded
as follows, to which I will now respond. And I will not
even hold you to what you said. I have put a separating
line after this section and you can delete everything
above it and just deal with what comes after it, in your
response. Certainly, that is fair. I just wanted to
point out to you that when you do it, you are being
dishonest, because you do twice as much of what you
accuse others of, when you demand that they put
exact words between two lines. So I am doing that
now, so that others who may read this can see where
you tried to add to the word of God, when you tossed
aside vs 20-22, as if they had nothing to do with
vs 23-25.
You use this "put it between the two lines" method,
when people aren't saying that is the exact wording.
Yet here you are, putting your words in quotes,
as if you are quoting what Scripture says, so you
truly are bound by your own rule much more so!
The statement is "all things which are written"
The question is "written about what"??
Jesus didn't ask that question. So why do you add
to the word of God? Jesus already told them what
it included, in vs 20-22.
Can you please show us where that question is asked
in those verses, please? Just put it right between
the following two lines for us...
__________________________________________
__________________________________________
The context is "the destruction of Jerusalem"
No, the context was His return, which included
the destruction of Jerusalem, as Zechariah 14:1-2
also shows.
The answer is "all things which are written about
the destruction of Jerusalem."
Can you please show us where it says that? I don't
see those words being spoken by Jesus.
Just put it between the following two lines.
__________________________________________
__________________________________________
************* SEPARATING LINE ***************
You can delete the above text, if you prefer not to
provide answers to it and just deal with what follows.
But Preterists refuse to consider that, because it brings
their false doctrine crashing down in dust and ash.
While you keep trying to rearrange Luke, you forget that
it was the Jews who didn't always write in chronological
order, while Gentiles like Luke would have. Luke gives
a chronological order, while Matthew would not have
been as concerned about it. Jews worded things in order
of what was deemed important to what else was said.
Thus, a Jew may rearrange the order of what was said,
to group points together, while a Gentile writer, who
was simply recoded an accurate history, would have
almost always been chronological in his writing. This
is evident in Luke and any scholar worth his salt knows
that Luke tended to write the events in chronological
order (the Book of Acts is a perfect example of this)
and that he sought to give an accurate, chronological
account of what occurred, which he himself also said...
Luke 1:1-4
1) Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order
a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled
among us,
2) just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses
and ministers of the word delivered them to us,
3) it seemed good to me also, having had perfect
understanding of all things from the very first, to
write to you an orderly account, most excellent
Theophilus,
4) that you may know the certainty of those things
in which you were instructed.
Note that in v3, where it says, "orderly account", that
the Greek word there means, "consecutively", which
is why the KJV translates it as, "in order".
Luke was seeking to write an account that was
chronological and documented everything in
the order in which it happened and to do so
accurately!
Thus, to try to separate out verses from Luke 21
that comes later in it and place them earlier in
the chapter, is to go against what the Bible itself
says about Luke's account. They do run together,
one after the other and so, yes, vs 23-25 do go
with vs 20-22 and follow vs 20-22 in order!
It has been suggested that the "all things which are
written" may mean "all" prophecy.
It is not "suggested". It is clearly stated by Jesus,
in Luke 21:22.
The prophecies went up to the point of Christ's return
and the manifestation of the Kingdom of God, which
I know you think would be physical, but Jesus said
it wouldn't be (Luke 17:20-1).
And since you admit that Luke 21 is about Christ's
return, guess what? That means that you don't get
to pretend that there was a whole bunch of stuff
that was going to happen after that.
The prophecies of Christ's return involved Jerusalem
and the surrounding area. There is not one word in
the Bible about a world wide event when Christ was
to return. In fact, not once in Revelation, is the Greek
word for the entire planet used. Each and every time,
the word that means that area, is the one that is used.
Now why would that be, if it was a world wide event?
And I will show that the Old Testament shows His return
to be the event in which Jerusalem was desolated.
Now let's look at the verses in Luke that you tried to
separate out when you shouldn't have, in their context.
And let us note that v23 ties vs 23-25 together with
vs 20-22, when Jesus said, "in those days", referring
to all that He just said, which includes vs 20-22 and
so, when you take these things He said about the Sun
and Moon literally, it is an incorrect interpretation.
Jesus was using the same symbolic language that
was common throughout the Scriptures, as I will
show later in this message.
Luke 21:20-25
20) But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies,
then know that its desolation is near.
21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the
mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart,
and let not those who are in the country enter her.
22) For these are the days of vengeance, that all things
which are written may be fulfilled.
23) But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who
are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great
distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
24) And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be
led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be
trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are
fulfilled.
25) And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon,
and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations,
with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
You quoted vs 23-25 and claimed that they were about
some event yet to come.
The truth is, you intentionally separated these verses
from vs 20-22, because you know that to read them
in their proper context, would destroy your doctrine.
The truth is, it is all about the same event.
So let's break it down...
Luke 21:20-25
20) But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies,
then know that its desolation is near.
21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the
mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart,
and let not those who are in the country enter her.
22) For these are the days of vengeance, that all things
which are written may be fulfilled.
Now here it is obvious that it is speaking of the
destruction of Jerusalem. Zechariah also records Jesus'
return. And contrary to the claim that you end timers
make, that Jesus will return and fight for Jerusalem
and so, Israel will win some great war, the reality is,
that the Bible teaches that Jerusalem would be destroyed
at the return of Christ.
The fall of the empire that attacked Jerusalem, doesn't
occur until after Jerusalem is destroyed (note the word
"then" in v3).
And as a side note, it was during the Roman war against
Jerusalem that the Roman Empire began its decline, when
it went into complete turmoil after the death of Nero.
Every history scholar who deals with the Roman Empire
knows it to be true that it was during this war that the
Roman Empire began its decline.
And this war on the Jews included the armies that Rome
recruited from other nations that were under their
control and who did gather in Armegeddon, which is
a bad translation. It should say, "Har Megiddo", which
means, "the hill of Megiddo.
Anyway, check out what Zechariah said...
Zechariah 14:1-2
1) Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
and your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2) For I will gather all the nations to battle
against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall
not be cut off from the city.
3a) Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations
5c) Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Now tell me, what is it about those passages that
you do not understand? There is nothing "fantastic"
about these verses and therefore, no reason to take
them symbolically. And these passages tie the return
of the Lord to the destruction of Jerusalem.
So yes, Luke 21:20-22 above, is speaking about Christ's
return. That is a Scriptural fact!
The following passages are the ones that you tried to
quote without quoting the above three verses from Luke.
23) But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who
are nursing babies in *THOSE* days! For there will be
great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
Note here, that Jesus said, "in THOSE days". It is clear
that He is referring to what He just said before this.
24) And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be
led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be
trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are
fulfilled.
25) And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon,
and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations,
with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
Now here you try to make this about our generation today.
But the reality is, there is nothing being said here by
Jesus, that would call for a separation. He does not use
any words that demand a separator. His statements run
together, whether you think they are fulfilled or not.
I.e., You can't change the wording to suit your desire
to interpret those things literally. Rather, you need to
change your interpretation to match the fact that Jesus
tied all of these things together into the same event.
Trying to rearrange the passages to suit your doctrine,
is to intentionally twist Scripture, trying to force it
to fit your doctrine! (:
The problem here, is that because you take these verses
as meaning literal events about the Sun and Moon, etc.,
you claim that they couldn't have been fulfilled and so,
you add to His words and put a separator there. But
there is nothing in the language structure that calls for
such a separation and Jesus did not say, "all things
written about the destruction of Jerusalem" as you
falsely claimed. Rather, He said only, "all things
written" and so, you do a great disservice to the text!
There are other Scriptures that show the symbolic
language that Jesus used and He was speaking in
the same way that the prophets had spoken throughout
Scripture and there are many examples of that.
In Isaiah 13:6-10, we see the same language about
the Sun and Moon, etc. and that is a fulfilled prophecy
about Babylon.
You keep ignoring this when I post it. Why is that,
if you are speaking the truth? What reason would
you have to avoid these passages?
The truth is, there have been a number of "days of
the Lord" and they have always referred to local events.
Here is it again...
Isaiah 13:6-10
6) Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand!
It will come as destruction from the Almighty.
7) Therefore all hands will be limp, every man’s
heart will melt,
8) And they will be afraid. Pangs and sorrows
will take hold of them; They will be in pain as
a woman in childbirth; They will be amazed at
one another; Their faces will be like flames.
9) Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel,
with both wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land
desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it.
10) For the stars of heaven and their constellations
will not give their light; the sun will be darkened
in its going forth, and the moon will not cause its
light to shine.
Now since this has already happened and included language
about the stars, the Sun and the Moon going dark, why do
you insist that what Jesus said in Luke 21:23-25 means
that literal events about the Sun and Moon, etc., would
happen? The Sun, the Moon and the stars were often used
in Scripture to note kings and kingdoms, or religious and
political leaders, nations, etc..
Joseph dreamed about the Sun and the Moon and the stars
making obeisance to him. And what was the response?
Was it taken as being physically literal? No, it wasn't.
Genesis 37:9-10
9) Then he dreamed still another dream and told it to his
brothers, and said, Look, I have dreamed another dream.
And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars
bowed down to me.
10) So he told it to his father and his brothers; and his
father rebuked him and said to him; What is this dream
that you have dreamed? Shall your mother and I and
your brothers indeed come to bow down to the earth
before you?
It was obvious to them that the Sun represented his
father, the Moon represented his mother and the eleven
stars represented his brothers.
So why isn't the symbolic language in the New Testament
obvious to you? It was still a Jew, speaking to Jews,
was it not?
In Judges, we read about battles that were already fought
and what do we see there, that Deborah sang?
Judges 5:19-20
19) The kings came and fought,
Then the kings of Canaan fought
In Taanach, by the waters of Megiddo;
They took no spoils of silver.
20) They fought from the heavens;
The stars from their courses fought against Sisera.
Now tell me Glenn, did the stars literally fight a battle
from the heavens?
And what about the following passage?
"The Sun shall not strike you by day, nor the Moon
by night." - Psalm 121:6
Did the Sun and Moon normally literally strike people
and so, he was saying that it wouldn't happen now?
"Praise Him, Sun and Moon; Praise Him, all you stars
of light!" - Psalm 148:3
Do the Sun and Moon and stars literally praise God?
Now read Isaiah 13:10 again and note again, that it
is a fulfilled prophecy regarding Babylon...
"For the stars of heaven and their constellations will
not give their light; The Sun will be darkened in its
going forth, and the Moon will not cause its light to
shine." - Isaiah 13:10
Now this DID HAPPEN, Glenn! So what now? By your
literal approach, YOU MUST show us where it is recorded
that this LITERALLY happened and HOW it is that man
lived through the Sun and Moon and the stars going
dark, when the fact is, if the Sun were to go dark, then
mankind would not survive it. Not for 3 minutes!
So how do you propose that this is going to happen
at some future time? You claim that Jesus will return
and that the Sun will go dark and THEN, the people
of the Earth will mourn (Mat 24). The truth is, if the
Sun literally went dark, there would be no one alive to
do any "mourning". Do you have any comprehension
of what it would mean, if the Sun went dark?! You
think people will be hiding in caves and crying out
for the mountains to fall on them, because all of this
is happening and the truth is, they'd be dead! Can
you live in 400 below zero temperatures, by hiding
in a cave? Hello? McFly??? And that is a conservative
estimate!
It is your WILLFUL IGNORANCE of the Old Testament
Scriptures and how God used His prophets to speak to
the people, due to your ego and vanity, that prevent
you from admitting this! (:
You claim that the people alive today are the ones who
will see Jesus return and that your claim is a fact and
that anyone who denies it, is working for Satan. The
truth is, you haven't a leg to stand on when you make
that claim!
These things are symbolic language and in Luke 21,
are tied to the fall of Jerusalem and the Mosaic system.
And every Rabbi agrees that Biblical Judaism ceased in
70 AD, when Jerusalem was desolated!
You need to learn what these things mean, by educating
yourself in the Old Testament, which is the Scriptures
that the Apostles and Jesus Himself preached from
and which showed all of what was to happen...
Luke 24:24-27
24) And certain of those who were with us went to the
tomb and found it just as the women had said; but Him
they did not see.
25) Then He said to them, O foolish ones, and slow of
heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26) Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things
and to enter into His glory?
27) And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets,
He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things
concerning Himself.
And those in Thessalonica were called "more noble",
because they searched the Scriptures to verify what
Paul said, before they believed what he said and it
was the Old Testament Scriptures that they searched
and this shows that they must have understood the
Old Testament and its symbolic language and would
not have expected Jesus to speak any differently
than the way God spoke through all of His prophets
throughout time. We must note that Paul went into
the synagogue and spoke to the Jews and that they
believed, because what he said was found in the
Old Testament Scriptures.
Acts 17:10-12
10) Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas
away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went
into the synagogue of the Jews.
11) These were more fair-minded than those in
Thessalonica, in that they received the word with
all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to
find out whether these things were so.
12) Therefore many of them believed, and also not a
few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men.
They knew the symbolic language and would not have
expected Jesus, a Jew, to use a completely different,
"21st century" way of speaking, as you claim it should
be taken, when you try to make "near" mean "near"
for you, but mean "thousands of years away", when
it was first said! (:
God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor 14:33) and so,
your claim that He was speaking to us, things that only
we could finally understand, is ridiculous!
Why? Simple! Because if that were true, then they
could not have understand what He was saying and
therefore, they could not have believed. Neither
would the Apostles have believed, because it would
have been like He was speaking a foreign language
to them! And it is clear that none of them took
these things as meaning, "thousands of years away".
Why would they run around preaching to people to
accept Christ, when they would have been preaching
things that couldn't have been understood until the
21st century? Huh??? What???
And as I said, it is clear that none of them took these
things as meaning, "thousands of years away". So
your claim has them preaching a lie that they were
lead to believe by Jesus. THAT is what YOUR
interpretation does to the Scriptures and to language!
It is YOU who is twisting and tearing Scriptures apart,
to suit your own personal doctrine!
The fact is, they read the Old Testament Scriptures,
which is where this type of language was first used.
And Jesus was using the very same language that
God's prophets always used. Yet for some reason,
you want us to think that Jesus talked just like a
21st century Gentile. (:
You end timers claim, "the end is near" and try to get
people to believe that means in our lifetime, which is
your specific claim, Glenn! That "near", "soon", etc.,
mean our lifetime and so, the words mean just what
they say and yet, when Jesus first preached these
things to those people back then and used those
words, you want us to think that He meant, "almost
2,000 years from now" and yet, he gave absolutely
no indication whatsoever, that He was speaking of
a great gap in time! If those words mean what they
say when YOU read them, why wouldn't they have
taken them just as they were said, when they were
said to THEM??? And the fact is, that they are the
same words you are reading, that He said to them!
So how can they possibly mean "thousands of years
from now" when they hear them, when you read them
just as their written and say that they mean, "near"
and "soon" in the normal sense now? Huh???
But then again, you did say that the Apostles were
wrong when they wrote about Christ's return within
their generation. So you take your own doctrine
over the Scriptures. (:
What you don't realize, or now you probably do, since
I pointed it out to you in this message and in other
messages, is that you are making Jesus complicit in
a lie, since He would have been intentionally misleading
them, by using those words, knowing what they mean
and how they would have been taken by them and not
once, do we see Jesus correcting that idea and saying,
"No, no, it will be a long time from now! I'm not
saying it will be you guys!".
And they were not wrong about what they taught, Glenn!
Jesus said to them...
"...it has been given to you to know the mysteries of
the kingdom of heaven" - Matthew 13:11b
And yes Glenn, contrary to what you want us to believe,
the Apostles DID understand what He said about His
return and the resurrection and judgment...
"Jesus said to them, “Have you understood all these
things? They said to Him, Yes, Lord." - Matthew 13:51
Getting back to Luke 21...
Looking at Luke 21:20-25, it is easy to see that these
words all run together and Jesus is stating what will
happen during the time surrounding Jerusalem being
destroyed. The text runs together and is all about
the same event and we can see that, again, when
Jesus says, "in those days". There is no indicator
in the language construction that shows otherwise.
He gives no indication that He is changing subjects
and speaking of a different time.
In other words, if you said that you had a collection
of Bibles and I said...
"Yea, those are some cool Bibles! I'm gonna fly over
to that store and see if they have any more for sale!"
....I would obviously be speaking of the Bibles that
YOU had and in our way of speaking, I said that I
would go to that store quickly. It is obvious that
I could not literally "FLY" to the store.
Noting the comparison of "those Bibles" to "those days",
what YOU want us to believe, is that when I note how
cool THOSE Bibles are, that I'm changing subjects and
I'm speaking of some Bibles that someone would have
thousands of years from now and that some other person
will literally fly to some other store to see if some
other type of Bible was there. (:
You try to take the fantastic statements of Scripture
and make them literal and so, ignore the clear and
simple wording of the verses and try to add to what
He said and you completely disregard the language
construction of the sentences in doing so.
Since when are we supposed to interpret the clear
and simple by the fantastic and obscure?
It is true that it is the other way around. It is the
fantastic and obscure that should be interpreted
by the clear and simple. To do otherwise, is even
to deny fulfilled prophecies and to make God into
a liar, since for example, we can see that this is
the proper method by looking at Isaiah 13:6-10,
which uses the same language that Jesus does in
Matthew 24 & Luke 21.
And by looking at Isaiah 19:1, which is a fulfilled
prophecy regarding the time that God used the
Assyrians to judge Egypt and says that God,
"rode a swift cloud into Egypt" and yet, no one
visibly saw Him riding a cloud, we can see that
this is symbolic language being used by Jesus,
when He speaks of appearing in the clouds.
Remember, in Acts 1:9-11, the thing to note
is that when Jesus ascended, He was in the
cloud and it says and I quote, that He was,
"OUT OF THEIR SIGHT".
Let's look at Isaiah and see this for ourselves...
"The burden against Egypt. Behold, the LORD rides
on a swift cloud, and will come into Egypt; The idols
of Egypt will totter at His presence, and the heart of
Egypt will melt in its midst." - Isaiah 19:1
Now since you interpret everything fantastic literally,
can you please document for us when God was
physically seen riding a swift cloud and who saw Him?
We both know that you can't and that you will ignore
this passage, because you don't want to acknowledge it.
So now, let's look again at Luke and as I said, we can
easily see that the text all runs together, especially by
noting that Jesus said, "in those days" and was referring
to the days He had just described.
And whether you can understand HOW the words were
fulfilled is irrelevant. Jesus tells us WHEN they were
to be fulfilled and He said it was at the desolation of
Jerusalem, so you need to correct your interpretation!
Luke 21:20-25
20) But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies,
then know that its desolation is near.
21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the
mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart,
and let not those who are in the country enter her.
22) For these are the days of vengeance, that all things
which are written may be fulfilled.
23) But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who
are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great
distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
24) And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be
led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be
trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are
fulfilled.
25) And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon,
and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations,
with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
Note again that He said, "in *THOSE* days". It was
in THOSE days that He spoke of, which is the days
of Jerusalem's desolation and frankly, only one who
is truly stubborn and wants to twist the Bible and
the normal common sense rules of language would
state otherwise! (:
Note that He said that they would fall "by the edge of
the sword". That is an ancient weapon. Nowhere does
He describe modern weaponry and as the Scripture
said, Jerusalem would fall, not win. And in 70 AD,
Jerusalem did fall and was desolated. And so we
both know what that means. :)
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
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<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
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O
"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
"If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject
what you like - it is not the Gospel you believe, but
yourselves." - St. Augustine
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: GLENN'S SOPHISTRY CLAIMS ON THE END TIMES |
29 Jun 2006 01:55:18 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <zananias917z@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ff7a2h8qm64r29cbo1v8bg8ibougdb8bm@4ax.com...
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:36:07 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
I started this thread for you and I. You seek to avoid
my points and insult me instead and that is your method.
And you would do well to read this entire message,
BEFORE RESPONDING. It is a bit long, but I don't
expect you to respond to every single sentence.
I just expect you not to ignore my points.
Takes more space to twist the truth than it does to just state it.
<SNIP>
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| User: "St Dog the Wet" |
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| Title: Re: GLENN'S SOPHISTRY CLAIMS ON THE END TIMES |
29 Jun 2006 01:56:06 PM |
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Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <zananias917z@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ff7a2h8qm64r29cbo1v8bg8ibougdb8bm@4ax.com...
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:36:07 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
I started this thread for you and I. You seek to avoid
my points and insult me instead and that is your method.
And you would do well to read this entire message,
BEFORE RESPONDING. It is a bit long, but I don't
expect you to respond to every single sentence.
I just expect you not to ignore my points.
Takes more space to twist the truth than it does to just state it.
<SNIP>
Well, your one liner proves that!!
I'm willing to bet a dollar to a dozen donuts that Dave gets no
"responding" -- let alone anyone who will "read the entire
message..."
tata...
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: GLENN'S SOPHISTRY CLAIMS ON THE END TIMES |
29 Jun 2006 03:27:57 PM |
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"St Dog the Wet" <g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12a88i6p1n32vc7@corp.supernews.com...
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <zananias917z@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ff7a2h8qm64r29cbo1v8bg8ibougdb8bm@4ax.com...
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:36:07 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
I started this thread for you and I. You seek to avoid
my points and insult me instead and that is your method.
And you would do well to read this entire message,
BEFORE RESPONDING. It is a bit long, but I don't
expect you to respond to every single sentence.
I just expect you not to ignore my points.
Takes more space to twist the truth than it does to just state it.
<SNIP>
Well, your one liner proves that!!
I'm willing to bet a dollar to a dozen donuts that Dave gets no
"responding" -- let alone anyone who will "read the entire message..."
Spent a good deal of my life in ministry, best way to waste your breath is
to say too much. Put out a religious magizine for a while (locally) called
the Two Edged Sword, as my paralzsis set in, I found it harder and harder to
type, finally my arms gave out and went to typing by mouth, at first with a
pen or pencel then was donated a 'mouth-tool' custom made for people like
myself.
Long story short, learned to say more, with less words, and discovered that
more people started *hearing me* !!!
tata...
:-)
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| User: "St Dog the Wet" |
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| Title: Re: GLENN'S SOPHISTRY CLAIMS ON THE END TIMES |
29 Jun 2006 03:31:12 PM |
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Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"St Dog the Wet" <g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12a88i6p1n32vc7@corp.supernews.com...
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <zananias917z@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ff7a2h8qm64r29cbo1v8bg8ibougdb8bm@4ax.com...
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:36:07 -0700, St Dog the Wet
<g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
I started this thread for you and I. You seek to avoid
my points and insult me instead and that is your method.
And you would do well to read this entire message,
BEFORE RESPONDING. It is a bit long, but I don't
expect you to respond to every single sentence.
I just expect you not to ignore my points.
Takes more space to twist the truth than it does to just state it.
<SNIP>
Well, your one liner proves that!!
I'm willing to bet a dollar to a dozen donuts that Dave gets no
"responding" -- let alone anyone who will "read the entire message..."
Spent a good deal of my life in ministry, best way to waste your breath is
to say too much. Put out a religious magizine for a while (locally) called
the Two Edged Sword, as my paralzsis set in, I found it harder and harder to
type, finally my arms gave out and went to typing by mouth, at first with a
pen or pencel then was donated a 'mouth-tool' custom made for people like
myself.
Long story short, learned to say more, with less words, and discovered that
more people started *hearing me* !!!
O.K., I take the hint :-)
My posts are too long...
tata...
:-)
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: GLENN'S SO | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
