| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
02 Jun 2005 10:55:40 AM |
| Object: |
END TIMES - RANDY AND PASTOR DAVE |
On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:26:09 -0700, "randy"
<rkluth@wavecable.com> spake thusly:
I am truly sorry for this level of formality. It is
not a reflection on you personally. It's just that, as
I said, I do not wish for this to degenerate into a ill
willed argument. Please understand that. I am
being sincere...
One last thing. Which group are you posting from,
so that I don't accidentally exclude it when starting
the new thread, should you consent?
I'm posting from alt.messianic. I used to post on
last-days, so I'm used to discussing some eschatology.
I'll try to observe good manners, but that's expected
anyway. Why don't you just fire away, and see how
things go?
I will take this as your agreement to the guidelines.
If that is not correct, please say so.
Please state what your beliefs are, as I do not wish
to attribute a belief to you, that you do not hold.
Regardless, I'm still not sure what your position is.
You say that all prophecy was fulfilled in the 1st
century. But how does that leave room for Christ's
return?
I would suggest that we start with Jesus' with
discourse. What is your impression of what
is found in Matthew 24:1-3, for example?
--
Pastor Dave
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
http://tinyurl.com/ce97m
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| User: "Scorpio" |
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| Title: Re: END TIMES |
06 Jun 2005 06:46:35 PM |
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"awetzel" <nospam@tpg.com.au> wrote in message =
news:Pi3pe.4508$F7.2791@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. wrote:
Was Jesus even a Jew?=20
http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/jewsnotrace.htm
http://assemblyoftrueisrael.com/TruthPage/the_word_jew.html
Those websites are anti-Jewish and racists.=20
''The Jews Are Not A Race!'' British, French or Americans are not a =
race either. Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one =
common ancestry or biological distinction. People of many different =
races have become Jewish people over the years. Jewish is first of all a =
religious identity.
Abraham, Isaac, Ismael, Isau, Jacob and the Heads of the twelve =
tribes never existed. The biblical people of the Bible identified as =
Israel is a myth. They imagined and wrote an epic of an imaginary =
people.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C56AD0.72FFDD80
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type =
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2627" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"awetzel" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:nospam@tpg.com.au">nospam@tpg.com.au</A>> wrote in =
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:Pi3pe.4508$F7.2791@news-server.bigpond.net.au">news:Pi3pe.45=
08$F7.2791@news-server.bigpond.net.au</A>...</DIV>H.E.=20
Eickleberry, Jr. wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=3DmiddOudnZK-LrhjLDnfRVn-vg@comcast.com =
type=3D"cite">
<DIV>Was Jesus even a Jew? <BR><A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext=20
=
href=3D"http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/jewsnotrace.htm">ht=
tp://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/jewsnotrace.htm</A><BR><FONT =
size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext=20
=
href=3D"http://assemblyoftrueisrael.com/TruthPage/the_word_jew.html">http=
://assemblyoftrueisrael.com/TruthPage/the_word_jew.html</A></FONT></FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Those websites are anti-Jewish and =
racists.=20
</FONT></DIV><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=3DmiddOudnZK-LrhjLDnfRVn-vg@comcast.com =
type=3D"cite"><FONT=20
size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0>
<DIV>''The Jews Are Not A Race!'' British, French or Americans are =
not a=20
race either. Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share =
one common=20
ancestry or biological distinction. People of many different races =
have=20
become Jewish people over the years. Jewish is first of all a =
religious=20
identity.</DIV>
<DIV>Abraham, Isaac, Ismael, Isau, Jacob and the Heads of the twelve =
tribes=20
never existed. The biblical people of the Bible identified as Israel =
is a=20
myth. They imagined and wrote an epic of an imaginary=20
=
people. <BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></H=
TML>
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C56AD0.72FFDD80--
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: END TIMES |
06 Jun 2005 09:56:47 PM |
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"Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com> wrote in message
news:rf5pe.4055$_n2.424376@news20.bellglobal.com...
"awetzel" <nospam@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:Pi3pe.4508$F7.2791@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. wrote:
Was Jesus even a Jew?
http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/jewsnotrace.htm
http://assemblyoftrueisrael.com/TruthPage/the_word_jew.html
Those websites are anti-Jewish and racists.
''The Jews Are Not A Race!'' British, French or Americans are not a race
either. Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one common
ancestry or biological distinction. People of many different races have
become Jewish people over the years. Jewish is first of all a religious
identity.
Abraham, Isaac, Ismael, Isau, Jacob and the Heads of the twelve tribes never
existed. The biblical people of the Bible identified as Israel is a myth.
They imagined and wrote an epic of an imaginary people.
The Jews are the only people God Himself distinguished by language
(tongues), politics (nations), geographic location (peoples), race
(kindred), and belief, i.e. the five disciplines.
Anyone who says different is a liar and a fraud.
Ike
P.S. I don't know who is sending HTML through the boards, but knock it off.
Newsgroups don't use rich text, and it fouls up the replies. Right now, I
don't know who is sending this anti-semetic ***** to the
newsgroup--Scorpio or awtzel. My apoligies to the one and my condemnations
to the other.
.
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| User: "Scorpio" |
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| Title: Re: END TIMES |
06 Jun 2005 10:51:58 PM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:zeWdncrVtaNwkTjfRVn-tA@comcast.com...
Old "Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com> wrote in message
news:rf5pe.4055$_n2.424376@news20.bellglobal.com...
Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry
or biological distinction. People of many different races have become
Jewish people over the years. Jewish is first of all a religious
identity.
Abraham, Isaac, Ismael, Isau, Jacob and the Heads of twelve tribes never
existed. The biblical people of the Bible identified as Israel is a myth.
Jews imagined and wrote the epic of an imaginary people they projected in
the past.
The Jews are the only people God Himself distinguished by language
(tongues), politics (nations), geographic location (peoples), race
(kindred), and belief, i.e. the five disciplines.
Biblical authors wrote stories about a people they call Jacob-Israel, the
people of God, they projected in the past. They are not identified as Jews
nor Jewish, are they?
Why?
Because there were no Jews until after the Babyloian Exile.
Show me where the name Jew(s) or the adjective Jewish is mentioned in a
modern Bible, before the Babylonian Exile.
When pagan Cananites became Jews, they became the children of Jacob-Israel,
the Israel of God, according to the Jewish Tanach.
Anyone who says different is a liar and a fraud.
Anyone who says different is a liar and a fraud.
Jews produced the Tanach. Jews wrote the fabricated stories you read in the
Tanach. The Tanach is full of fabricated stories, from Genesis to Kings. Why
are you so surprised?
Being Jewish means you are a part of a religious movement.
A Jewish identity is automatically bestowed on the babies of Jewish mothers
(according to Orthodox and Conservative Judaism) and of Jewish mothers or
fathers (according to Reform Judaism).
The Jewish identity stays with them throughout their life even if they don't
actively practice Judaism.
If a person is not born Jewish, he/she can undergo the process of conversion
to become a Jew.
On n'apprend pas à un vieux singe à faire des grimaces.
Ike
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: END TIMES |
07 Jun 2005 08:04:01 AM |
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"Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com> wrote in message
news:CR8pe.5839$Nd3.307339@news20.bellglobal.com...
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:zeWdncrVtaNwkTjfRVn-tA@comcast.com...
Old "Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com> wrote in message
news:rf5pe.4055$_n2.424376@news20.bellglobal.com...
Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry
or biological distinction. People of many different races have become
Jewish people over the years. Jewish is first of all a religious
identity.
Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Esau, Jacob and the Heads of twelve tribes
never existed. The biblical people of the Bible identified as Israel is
a myth. Jews imagined and wrote the epic of an imaginary people they
projected in the past.
The Jews are the only people God Himself distinguished by language
(tongues), politics (nations), geographic location (peoples), race
(kindred), and belief, i.e. the five disciplines.
Biblical authors wrote stories about a people they call Jacob-Israel, the
people of God, they projected in the past. They are not identified as Jews
nor Jewish, are they?
Why?
Because there were no Jews until after the Babylonian Exile.
Show me where the name Jew(s) or the adjective Jewish is mentioned in a
modern Bible, before the Babylonian Exile.
When pagan Canaanites became Jews, they became the children of
Jacob-Israel, the Israel of God, according to the Jewish Tanach.
Anyone who says different is a liar and a fraud.
This was the last split.
God separated Shem from Ham and Japeth.
God separated Peleg from Joktan.
God separated Isaac from Ishmael.
God separated Jacob from Esau.
Finally, God separated Judah, Benjamin, and a few Levites from the other ten
tribes.
What is left is Judaism.
From this God brought forth Jesus.
You're just playing semantics with this nonsense of yours.
Anyone who says different is a liar and a fraud.
Jews produced the Tanach. Jews wrote the fabricated stories you read in
the Tanach. The Tanach is full of fabricated stories, from Genesis to
Kings. Why are you so surprised?
You say, and you say wrong.
Being Jewish means you are a part of a religious movement.
A Jewish identity is automatically bestowed on the babies of Jewish
mothers (according to Orthodox and Conservative Judaism) and of Jewish
mothers or fathers (according to Reform Judaism).
The Jewish identity stays with them throughout their life even if they
don't actively practice Judaism.
If a person is not born Jewish, he/she can undergo the process of
conversion to become a Jew.
1) Being Jewish had its origins in language, political structure, race,
geographical location, and belief.
2) The situation you describe is that which has arisen since the Diaspora,
and has no bearing on the lineage leading to the coming of Christ.
3) As far as the proselytes were concerned, the foundation of the Gospel to
the Gentiles was in the Jewish law the whole time, which is what infuriated
God: The Israelites thought they has something they could keep to
themselves, making themselves superior, but they were supposed to use their
higher position to bring the Kingdom to the Gentiles the whole time. For all
legal intents and purposes, the proselytes themselves became Jews.
On n'apprend pas à un vieux singe à faire des grimaces.
phaskontes einai sophoi emoranthesan
Ike
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| User: "Scorpio" |
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| Title: Re: END TIMES |
07 Jun 2005 11:54:45 AM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xf2dnUPj9ciiBjjfRVn-1g@comcast.com...
"Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com> wrote in message
news:CR8pe.5839$Nd3.307339@news20.bellglobal.com...
What is left is Judaism.
From this God brought forth Jesus.
You're just playing semantics with this nonsense of yours.
Apparently anything you wite Ike is to be treated as truth and stands
unchallenged no matter what.
Jews produced the Tanach. Jews wrote the fabricated stories you read in
the Tanach. The Tanach is full of fabricated stories, from Genesis to
Kings. Why are you so surprised?
You say, and you say wrong.
Being Jewish means you are a part of a religious movement.
A Jewish identity is automatically bestowed on the babies of Jewish
mothers (according to Orthodox and Conservative Judaism) and of Jewish
mothers or fathers (according to Reform Judaism).
The Jewish identity stays with them throughout their life even if they
don't actively practice Judaism.
If a person is not born Jewish, he/she can undergo the process of
conversion to become a Jew.
1) Being Jewish had its origins in language, political structure, race,
geographical location, and belief.
Jewish is not a race, it's an etnic identification.
I'll repeat myself.
The Tanach is a collection of fabricated stories from Genesis to Kings,
projected in the past, an epic of a people the authors called Jacob-Israel.
A people Jews should imitate in their relation with the Jewish God.
The Bible is not history book.
On n'apprend pas à un vieux singe à faire des grimaces.
phaskontes einai sophoi emoranthesan
Ike
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
|
| Title: Re: END TIMES |
07 Jun 2005 04:02:45 PM |
|
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"Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com> wrote in message
news:rjkpe.5305$_n2.586615@news20.bellglobal.com...
[snip]
I'll repeat myself.
The Tanach is a collection of fabricated stories from Genesis to Kings,
projected in the past, an epic of a people the authors called
Jacob-Israel. A people Jews should imitate in their relation with the
Jewish God.
The Bible is not history book.
Why repeat yourself. You were wrong the first time you said it.
Ike
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| User: "awetzel" |
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| Title: Re: END TIMES |
07 Jun 2005 04:40:50 PM |
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Scorpio wrote:
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xf2dnUPj9ciiBjjfRVn-1g@comcast.com...
"Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com> wrote in message
news:CR8pe.5839$Nd3.307339@news20.bellglobal.com...
What is left is Judaism.
From this God brought forth Jesus.
You're just playing semantics with this nonsense of yours.
Apparently anything you wite Ike is to be treated as truth and stands
unchallenged no matter what.
Jews produced the Tanach. Jews wrote the fabricated stories you read in
the Tanach. The Tanach is full of fabricated stories, from Genesis to
Kings. Why are you so surprised?
You say, and you say wrong.
Being Jewish means you are a part of a religious movement.
A Jewish identity is automatically bestowed on the babies of Jewish
mothers (according to Orthodox and Conservative Judaism) and of Jewish
mothers or fathers (according to Reform Judaism).
The Jewish identity stays with them throughout their life even if they
don't actively practice Judaism.
If a person is not born Jewish, he/she can undergo the process of
conversion to become a Jew.
1) Being Jewish had its origins in language, political structure, race,
geographical location, and belief.
Jewish is not a race, it's an etnic identification.
I'll repeat myself.
The Tanach is a collection of fabricated stories from Genesis to Kings,
projected in the past, an epic of a people the authors called Jacob-Israel.
A people Jews should imitate in their relation with the Jewish God.
The Bible is not history book.
On n'apprend pas à un vieux singe à faire des grimaces.
phaskontes einai sophoi emoranthesan
Ike
http://www.iahushua.com/JQ/freedmn1.html
A Jewish Defector Warns America:
Benjamin Freedman Speaks
by Benjamin H. Freedman
Introductory Note
Benjamin H. Freedman was one of the most intriguing and amazing
individuals of the 20th century. Mr. Freedman, born in 1890, was a
successful Jewish businessman of New York City who was at one time
the principal owner of the Woodbury Soap Company. He broke with
organized Jewry after the Judeo-Communist victory of 1945, and spent
the remainder of his life and the great preponderance of his
considerable fortune, at least 2.5 million dollars, exposing the
Jewish tyranny which has enveloped the United States. Mr. Freedman
knew what he was talking about because he had been an insider at the
highest levels of Jewish organizations and Jewish machinations to
gain power over our nation. Mr. Freedman was personally acquainted
with Bernard Baruch, Samuel Untermyer, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin
Roosevelt, Joseph Kennedy, and John F. Kennedy, and many more movers
and shakers of our times. This speech was given before a patriotic
audience in 1961 at the Willard Hotel in Washington, D.C., on behalf
of Conde McGinley's patriotic newspaper of that time, Common Sense.
Though in some minor ways this wide-ranging and extemporaneous
speech has become dated, Mr. Freedman's essential message to us --
his warning to the West -- is more urgent than ever before. -- K.A.S.
*
HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, the Zionists and their co-religionists
have complete control of our government. For many reasons, too many
and too complex to go into here at this time, the Zionists and their
co-religionists rule these United States as though they were the
absolute monarchs of this country. Now you may say that is a very
broad statement, but let me show you what happened while we were all
asleep.
What happened? World War I broke out in the summer of 1914. There
are few people here my age who remember that. Now that war was waged
on one side by Great Britain, France, and Russia; and on the other
side by Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey.
Within two years Germany had won that war: not only won it
nominally, but won it actually. The German submarines, which were a
surprise to the world, had swept all the convoys from the Atlantic
Ocean.
Great Britain stood there without ammunition for her soldiers, with
one week's food supply -- and after that, starvation. At that time,
the French army had mutinied. They had lost 600,000 of the flower of
French youth in the defense of Verdun on the Somme. The Russian army
was defecting, they were picking up their toys and going home, they
didn't want to play war anymore, they didn't like the Czar. And the
Italian army had collapsed.
Not a shot had been fired on German soil. Not one enemy soldier had
crossed the border into Germany. And yet, Germany was offering
England peace terms. They offered England a negotiated peace on what
the lawyers call a status quo ante basis. That means: “Let's call
the war off, and let everything be as it was before the war
started.” England, in the summer of 1916 was considering that --
seriously. They had no choice. It was either accepting this
negotiated peace that Germany was magnanimously offering them, or
going on with the war and being totally defeated.
While that was going on, the Zionists in Germany, who represented
the Zionists from Eastern Europe, went to the British War Cabinet
and -- I am going to be brief because it's a long story, but I have
all the documents to prove any statement that I make -- they said:
“Look here. You can yet win this war. You don't have to give up. You
don't have to accept the negotiated peace offered to you now by
Germany. You can win this war if the United States will come in as
your ally.” The United States was not in the war at that time. We
were fresh; we were young; we were rich; we were powerful. They told
England: “We will guarantee to bring the United States into the war
as your ally, to fight with you on your side, if you will promise us
Palestine after you win the war.” In other words, they made this
deal: “We will get the United States into this war as your ally. The
price you must pay is Palestine after you have won the war and
defeated Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey.” Now England had as
much right to promise Palestine to anybody, as the United States
would have to promise Japan to Ireland for any reason whatsoever.
It's absolutely absurd that Great Britain, that never had any
connection or any interest or any right in what is known as
Palestine should offer it as coin of the realm to pay the Zionists
for bringing the United States into the war. However, they did make
that promise, in October of 1916. And shortly after that -- I don't
know how many here remember it -- the United States, which was
almost totally pro-German, entered the war as Britain's ally.
I say that the United States was almost totally pro-German because
the newspapers here were&127 controlled by Jews, the bankers were
Jews, all the media of mass communications in this country were
controlled by Jews; and they, the Jews, were pro-German. They were
pro-German because many of them had come from Germany, and also they
wanted to see Germany lick the Czar.
The Jews didn't like the Czar, and they didn't want Russia to win
this war. These German-Jew bankers, like Kuhn Loeb and the other big
banking firms in the United States refused to finance France or
England to the extent of one dollar. They stood aside and they said:
“As long as France and England are tied up with Russia, not one
cent!” But they poured money into Germany, they fought beside
Germany against Russia, trying to lick the Czarist regime.
Now those same Jews, when they saw the possibility of getting
Palestine, went to England and they made this deal. At that time,
everything changed, like a traffic light that changes from red to
green. Where the newspapers had been all pro-German, where they'd
been telling the people of the difficulties that Germany was having
fighting Great Britain commercially and in other respects, all of a
sudden the Germans were no good. They were villains. They were Huns.
They were shooting Red Cross nurses. They were cutting off babies'
hands. They were no good.
Shortly after that, Mr. Wilson declared war on Germany.
The Zionists in London had sent cables to the United States, to
Justice Brandeis, saying “Go to work on President Wilson. We're
getting from England what we want. Now you go to work on President
Wilson and get the United States into the war.” That's how the
United States got into the war. We had no more interest in it; we
had no more right to be in it than we have to be on the moon tonight
instead of in this room. There was absolutely no reason for World
War I to be our war. We were railroaded into -- if I can be vulgar,
we were suckered into -- that war merely so that the Zionists of the
world could obtain Palestine. That is something that the people of
the United States have never been told. They never knew why we went
into World War I.
After we got into the war, the Zionists went to Great Britain and
they said: “Well, we performed our part of the agreement. Let's have
something in writing that shows that you are going to keep your
bargain and give us Palestine after you win the war.” They didn't
know whether the war would last another year or another ten years.
So they started to work out a receipt. The receipt took the form of
a letter, which was worded in very cryptic language so that the
world at large wouldn't know what it was all about. And that was
called the Balfour Declaration.
The Balfour Declaration was merely Great Britain's promise to pay
the Zionists what they had agreed upon as a consideration for
getting the United States into the war. So this great Balfour
Declaration, that you hear so much about, is just as phony as a
three dollar bill. I don't think I could make it more emphatic than
that.
That is where all the trouble started. The United States got in the
war. The United States crushed Germany. You know what happened. When
the war ended, and the Germans went to Paris for the Paris Peace
Conference in 1919 there were 117 Jews there, as a delegation
representing the Jews, headed by Bernard Baruch. I was there: I
ought to know. Now what happened? The Jews at that peace conference,
when they were cutting up Germany and parceling out Europe to all
these nations who claimed a right to a certain part of European
territory, said, “How about Palestine for us?” And they produced,
for the first time to the knowledge of the Germans, this Balfour
Declaration. So the Germans, for the first time realized, “Oh, so
that was the game!
That's why the United States came into the war.” The Germans for the
first time realized that they were defeated, they suffered the
terrific reparations that were slapped onto them, because the
Zionists wanted Palestine and were determined to get it at any cost.
That brings us to another very interesting point. When the Germans
realized this, they naturally resented it. Up to that time, the Jews
had never been better off in any country in the world than they had
been in Germany. You had Mr. Rathenau there, who was maybe 100 times
as important in industry and finance as is Bernard Baruch in this
country. You had Mr. Balin, who owned the two big steamship lines,
the North German Lloyd's and the Hamburg-American Lines. You had Mr.
Bleichroder, who was the banker for the Hohenzollern family. You had
the Warburgs in Hamburg, who were the big merchant bankers -- the
biggest in the world. The Jews were doing very well in Germany. No
question about that. The Germans felt: “Well, that was quite a sellout.”
It was a sellout that might be compared to this hypothetical
situation: Suppose the United States was at war with the Soviet
Union. And we were winning. And we told the Soviet Union: “Well,
let's quit. We offer you peace terms. Let's forget the whole thing.”
And all of a sudden Red China came into the war as an ally of the
Soviet Union. And throwing them into the war brought about our
defeat. A crushing defeat, with reparations the likes of which man's
imagination cannot encompass. Imagine, then, after that defeat, if
we found out that it was the Chinese in this country, our Chinese
citizens, who all the time we had thought were loyal citizens
working with us, were selling us out to the Soviet Union and that it
was through them that Red China was brought into the war against us.
How would we feel, then, in the United States against Chinese? I
don't think that one of them would dare show his face on any street.
There wouldn't be enough convenient lampposts to take care of them.
Imagine how we would feel.
Well, that's how the Germans felt towards these Jews. They'd been so
nice to them: from 1905 on, when the first Communist revolution in
Russia failed, and the Jews had to scramble out of Russia, they all
went to Germany. And Germany gave them refuge. And they were treated
very nicely. And here they had sold Germany down the river for no
reason at all other than the fact that they wanted Palestine as a
so-called “Jewish commonwealth.”
Now Nahum Sokolow, and all the great leaders and great names that
you read about in connection with Zionism today, in 1919, 1920,
1921, 1922, and 1923 wrote in all their papers -- and the press was
filled with their statements -- that the feeling against the Jews in
Germany is due to the fact that they realized that this great defeat
was brought about by Jewish intercession in bringing the United
States into the war. The Jews themselves admitted that. It wasn't
that the Germans in 1919 discovered that a glass of Jewish blood
tasted better than Coca-Cola or Muenschner Beer. There was no
religious feeling. There was no sentiment against those people
merely on account of their religious belief. It was all political.
It was economic. It was anything but religious. Nobody cared in
Germany whether a Jew went home and pulled down the shades and said
“Shema' Yisroel” or “Our Father.” Nobody cared in Germany any more
than they do in the United States. Now this feeling that developed
later in Germany was due to one thing: the Germans held the Jews
responsible for their crushing defeat.
And World War I had been started against Germany for no reason for
which Germany was responsible. They were guilty of nothing. Only of
being successful. They built up a big navy.
They built up world trade. You must remember that Germany at the
time of the French Revolution consisted of 300 small city-states,
principalities, dukedoms, and so forth. Three hundred separate
little political entities. And between that time, between the times
of Napoleon and Bismarck, they were consolidated into one state. And
within 50 years they became one of the world's great powers. Their
navy was rivalling Great Britain's, they were doing business all
over the world, they could undersell anybody, they could make better
products. What happened as a result of that?
There was a conspiracy between England, France, and Russia to slap
down Germany. There isn't one historian in the world who can find a
valid reason why those three countries decided to wipe Germany off
the map politically.
When Germany realized that the Jews were responsible for her defeat,
they naturally resented it. But not a hair on the head of any Jew
was harmed. Not a single hair. Professor Tansill, of Georgetown
University, who had access to all the secret papers of the State
Department, wrote in his book, and quoted from a State Department
document written by Hugo Schoenfelt, a Jew whom Cordell Hull sent to
Europe in 1933 to investigate the so-called camps of political
prisoners, who wrote back that he found them in very fine condition.
They were in excellent shape, with everybody treated well. And they
were filled with Communists. Well, a lot of them were Jews, because
the Jews happened to comprise about 98 per cent of the Communists in
Europe at that time. And there were some priests there, and
ministers, and labor leaders, and Masons, and others who had
international affiliations.
Some background is in order: In 1918-1919 the Communists took over
Bavaria for a few days.
Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht and a group of other Jews took
over the government for three days. In fact, when the Kaiser ended
the war he fled to Holland because he thought the Communists were
going to take over Germany as they did Russia and that he was going
to meet the same fate as the Czar. So he fled to Holland for safety,
for security. After the Communist threat in Germany was quashed, the
Jews were still working, trying to get back into their former
status, and the Germans fought them in every way they could without
hurting a single hair on anyone's head. They fought them the same
way that, in this country, the Prohibitionists fought anyone who was
interested in liquor. They didn't fight one another with pistols.
Well, that's the way they were fighting the Jews in Germany. And at
that time, mind you, there were 80 to 90 million Germans, and there
were only 460,000 Jews. About one half of one per cent of the
population of Germany were Jews. And yet they controlled all the
press, and they controlled most of the economy because they had come
in with cheap money when the mark was devalued and bought up
practically everything.
The Jews tried to keep a lid on this fact. They didn't want the
world to really understand that they had sold out Germany, and that
the Germans resented that.
The Germans took appropriate action against the Jews. They, shall I
say, discriminated against them wherever they could. They shunned
them. The same way that we would shun the Chinese, or the Negroes,
or the Catholics, or anyone in this country who had sold us out to
an enemy and brought about our defeat.
After a while, the Jews of the world called a meeting in Amsterdam.
Jews from every country in the world attended this meeting in July
1933. And they said to Germany: “You fire Hitler, and you put every
Jew back into his former position, whether he was a Communist or no
matter what he was. You can't treat us that way. And we, the Jews of
the world, are serving an ultimatum upon you.” You can imagine what
the Germans told them. So what did the Jews do?
In 1933, when Germany refused to surrender to the world conference
of Jews in Amsterdam, the conference broke up, and Mr. Samuel
Untermyer, who was the head of the American delegation and the
president of the whole conference, came to the United States and
went from the steamer to the studios of the Columbia Broadcasting
System and made a radio broadcast throughout the United States in
which he in effect said, “The Jews of the world now declare a Holy
War against Germany. We are now engaged in a sacred conflict against
the Germans. And we are going to starve them into surrender. We are
going to use a world-wide boycott against them. That will destroy
them because they are dependent upon their export business.” And it
is a fact that two thirds of Germany's food supply had to be
imported, and it could only be imported with the proceeds of what
they exported. So if Germany could not export, two thirds of
Germany's population would have to starve. There was just not enough
food for more than one third of the population. Now in this
declaration, which I have here, and which was printed in the New
York Times on August 7, 1933, Mr. Samuel Untermyer boldly stated
that “this economic boycott is our means of self-defense. President
Roosevelt has advocated its use in the National Recovery
Administration,” which some of you may remember, where everybody was
to be boycotted unless he followed the rules laid down by the New
Deal, and which was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court
of that time. Nevertheless, the Jews of the world declared a boycott
against Germany, and it was so effective that you couldn't find one
thing in any store anywhere in the world with the words “made in
Germany” on it. In fact, an executive of the Woolworth Company told
me that they had to dump millions of dollars worth of crockery and
dishes into the river; that their stores were boycotted if anyone
came in and found a dish marked “made in Germany,” they were
picketed with signs saying “Hitler,” “murderer,” and so forth,
something like these sit-ins that are taking place in the South. At
a store belonging to the R. H. Macy chain, which was controlled by a
family called Strauss who also happen to be Jews, a woman found
stockings there which came from Chemnitz, marked “made in Germany.”
Well, they were cotton stockings and they may have been there 20
years, since I've been observing women's legs for many years and
it's been a long time since I've seen any cotton stockings on them.
I saw Macy's boycotted, with hundreds of people walking around with
signs saying “murderers,” “Hitlerites,” and so forth. Now up to that
time, not one hair on the head of any Jew had been hurt in Germany.
There was no suffering, there was no starvation, there was no
murder, there was nothing.
Naturally, the Germans said, “Who are these people to declare a
boycott against us and throw all our people out of work, and make
our industries come to a standstill? Who are they to do that to us?”
They naturally resented it. Certainly they painted swastikas on
stores owned by Jews. Why should a German go in and give his money
to a storekeeper who was part of a boycott that was going to starve
Germany into surrendering to the Jews of the world, who were going
to dictate who their premier or chancellor was to be? Well, it was
ridiculous.
The boycott continued for some time, but it wasn't until 1938, when
a young Jew from Poland walked into the German embassy in Paris and
shot a German official, that the Germans really started to get rough
with the Jews in Germany. And you found them then breaking windows
and having street fights and so forth.
Now I don't like to use the word “anti-Semitism” because it's
meaningless, but it means something to you still, so I'll have to
use it. The only reason that there was any feeling in Germany
against Jews was that they were responsible for World War I and for
this world-wide boycott. Ultimately they were also responsible for
World War II, because after this thing got out of hand, it was
absolutely necessary for the Jews and Germany to lock horns in a war
to see which one was going to survive.
In the meanwhile, I had lived in Germany, and I knew that the
Germans had decided that Europe is going to be Christian or
Communist: there is no in between. And the Germans decided they were
going to keep it Christian if possible. And they started to re-arm.
In November 1933 the United States recognized the Soviet Union. The
Soviet Union was becoming very powerful, and Germany realized that
“Our turn was going to come soon, unless we are strong.” The same as
we in this country are saying today, “Our turn is going to come
soon, unless we are strong.” Our government is spending 83 or 84
billion dollars for defense.
Defense against whom? Defense against 40,000 little Jews in Moscow
that took over Russia, and then, in their devious ways, took over
control of many other countries of the world.&127
For this country now to be on the verge of a Third World War, from
which we cannot emerge a victor, is something that staggers my
imagination. I know that nuclear bombs are measured in terms of
megatons. A megaton is a term used to describe one million tons of
TNT. Our nuclear bombs had a capacity of 10 megatons, or 10 million
tons of TNT, when they were first developed. Now, the nuclear bombs
that are being developed have a capacity of 200 megatons, and God
knows how many megatons the nuclear bombs of the Soviet Union have.
What do we face now? If we trigger a world war that may develop into
a nuclear war, humanity is finished. Why might such a war take
place? It will take place as the curtain goes up on Act 3: Act 1 was
World War I, Act 2 was World War II, Act 3 is going to be World War
III. The Jews of the world, the Zionists and their co-religionists
everywhere, are determined that they are going to again use the
United States to help them permanently retain Palestine as their
foothold for their world government. That is just as true as I am
standing here. Not alone have I read it, but many here have also
read it, and it is known all over the world.
What are we going to do? The life you save may be your son's. Your
boys may be on their way to that war tonight; and you you don't know
it any more than you knew that in 1916 in London the Zionists made a
deal with the British War Cabinet to send your sons to war in
Europe. Did you know it at that time? Not a person in the United
States knew it. You weren't permitted to know it.
Who knew it? President Wilson knew it. Colonel House knew it. Other
insiders knew it.
Did I know it? I had a pretty good idea of what was going on: I was
liaison to Henry Morgenthau, Sr., in the 1912 campaign when
President Wilson was elected, and there was talk around the office
there. I was “confidential man” to Henry Morgenthau, Sr., who was
chairman of the finance committee, and I was liaison between him and
Rollo Wells, the treasurer. So I sat in these meetings with
President Wilson at the head of the table, and all the others, and I
heard them drum into President Wilson's brain the graduated income
tax and what has become the Federal Reserve, and I heard them
indoctrinate him with the Zionist movement. Justice Brandeis and
President Wilson were just as close as the two fingers on this hand.
President Woodrow Wilson was just as incompetent when it came to
determining what was going on as a newborn baby.
That is how they got us into World War I, while we all slept. They
sent our boys over there to be slaughtered. For what? So the Jews
can have Palestine as their “commonwealth.” They've fooled you so
much that you don't know whether you're coming or going.
Now any judge, when he charges a jury, says, “Gentlemen, any witness
who you find has told a single lie, you can disregard all his
testimony.” I don't know what state you come from, but in New York
state that is the way a judge addresses a jury. If that witness told
one lie, disregard his testimony.
What are the facts about the Jews? (I call them Jews to you, because
they are known as Jews. I don't call them Jews myself. I refer to
them as so-called Jews, because I know what they are.) The eastern
European Jews, who form 92 per cent of the world's population of
those people who call themselves Jews, were originally Khazars. They
were a warlike tribe who lived deep in the heart of Asia. And they
were so warlike that even the Asiatics drove them out of Asia into
eastern Europe. They set up a large Khazar kingdom of 800,000 square
miles. At the time, Russia did not exist, nor did many other
European countries. The Khazar kingdom was the biggest country in
all Europe -- so big and so powerful that when the other monarchs
wanted to go to war, the Khazars would lend them 40,000 soldiers.
That's how big and powerful they were.
They were phallic worshippers, which is filthy and I do not want to
go into the details of that now.
But that was their religion, as it was also the religion of many
other pagans and barbarians elsewhere in the world. The Khazar king
became so disgusted with the degeneracy of his kingdom that he
decided to adopt a so-called monotheistic faith -- either
Christianity, Islam, or what is known today as Judaism, which is
really Talmudism. By spinning a top, and calling out “eeny, meeny,
miney, moe,” he picked out so-called Judaism. And that became the
state religion. He sent down to the Talmudic schools of Pumbedita
and Sura and brought up thousands of rabbis, and opened up
synagogues and schools, and his people became what we call Jews.
There wasn't one of them who had an ancestor who ever put a toe in
the Holy Land.
Not only in Old Testament history, but back to the beginning of
time. Not one of them! And yet they come to the Christians and ask
us to support their armed insurrections in Palestine by saying, “You
want to help repatriate God's Chosen People to their Promised Land,
their ancestral home, don't you? It's your Christian duty. We gave
you one of our boys as your Lord and Savior.
You now go to church on Sunday, and you kneel and you worship a Jew,
and we're Jews.” But they are pagan Khazars who were converted just
the same as the Irish were converted. It is as ridiculous to call
them “people of the Holy Land,” as it would be to call the 54
million Chinese Moslems “Arabs.” Mohammed only died in 620 A.D., and
since then 54 million Chinese have accepted Islam as their religious
belief. Now imagine, in China, 2,000 miles away from Arabia, from
Mecca and Mohammed's birthplace. Imagine if the 54 million Chinese
decided to call themselves “Arabs.” You would say they were
lunatics. Anyone who believes that those 54 million Chinese are
Arabs must be crazy. All they did was adopt as a religious faith a
belief that had its origin in Mecca, in Arabia. The same as the
Irish. When the Irish became Christians, nobody dumped them in the
ocean and imported to the Holy Land a new crop of inhabitants.
They hadn't become a different people. They were the same people,
but they had accepted Christianity as a religious faith.
These Khazars, these pagans, these Asiatics, these Turko-Finns, were
a Mongoloid race who were forced out of Asia into eastern Europe.
Because their king took the Talmudic faith, they had no choice in
the matter. Just the same as in Spain: If the king was Catholic,
everybody had to be a Catholic. If not, you had to get out of Spain.
So the Khazars became what we call today Jews.
Now imagine how silly it was for the great Christian countries of
the world to say, “We're going to use our power and prestige to
repatriate God's Chosen People to their ancestral homeland, their
Promised Land.” Could there be a bigger lie than that? Because they
control the newspapers, the magazines, the radio, the television,
the book publishing business, and because they have the ministers in
the pulpit and the politicians on the soapboxes talking the same
language, it is not too surprising that you believe that lie. You'd
believe black is white if you heard it often enough. You wouldn't
call black black anymore -- you'd start to call black white. And
nobody could blame you.
That is one of the great lies of history. It is the foundation of
all the misery that has befallen the world.
Do you know what Jews do on the Day of Atonement, that you think is
so sacred to them? I was one of them. This is not hearsay. I'm not
here to be a rabble-rouser. I'm here to give you facts.
When, on the Day of Atonement, you walk into a synagogue, you stand
up for the very first prayer that you recite. It is the only prayer
for which you stand. You repeat three times a short prayer called
the Kol Nidre. In that prayer, you enter into an agreement with God
Almighty that any oath, vow, or pledge that you may make during the
next twelve months shall be null and void. The oath shall not be an
oath; the vow shall not be a vow; the pledge shall not be a pledge.
They shall have no force or effect. And further, the Talmud teaches
that whenever you take an oath, vow, or pledge, you are to remember
the Kol Nidre prayer that you recited on the Day of Atonement, and
you are exempted from fulfilling them. How much can you depend on
their loyalty? You can depend upon their loyalty as much as the
Germans depended upon it in 1916.
We are going to suffer the same fate as Germany suffered, and for
the same reason.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: END TIMES |
07 Jun 2005 05:07:27 PM |
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"awetzel" <nospam@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:Cvope.7253$F7.6123@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
[snip the typical Nazi anti-Semitic tripe]
Go, Jews!
Ike
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| User: "Mary Hogan" |
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| Title: Re: END TIMES |
07 Jun 2005 05:20:13 PM |
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Hee...I second that emotion, Ike......!!!!
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:v7ydneoneNwAhzvfRVn-vg@comcast.com...
"awetzel" <nospam@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:Cvope.7253$F7.6123@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
[snip the typical Nazi anti-Semitic tripe]
Go, Jews!
Ike
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
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| User: "Douglas Cox" |
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| Title: Re: END TIMES |
06 Jun 2005 09:13:19 AM |
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On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:29:20 -0400, "Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com>
wrote:
"randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com> wrote in message
news:br6dnbwJ9ohBBT7fRVn-tQ@wavecable.com...
"Scorpio"
"randy"
Titus may have himself been the "abomination!" And no question about it,
he
"caused desolation" of the temple!
"On the fifteenth day of the month Kislev in the year 145" (verse 54,
TEV), which corresponds to 168/167 B.C., "they set up the abomination of
desolation upon the altar" of the temple (verse 54, KJV). 2 Maccabees 6:2
tells us that Antiochus defiled the Jewish temple "by dedicating it to
the
Olympian god Zeus" (TEV).
Yes, the Prophet Daniel wrote also of another "abomination of desolation,"
fulfilled by Antiochus.
You under estimate the subtlety of the Jewish spirit. The book of Daniel is
a collection of apocalyptic literature written by different authors at
different times in history and presented as if it was written by one Daniel.
The part referring to Anthiochus was written after the events described had
taken place.
This is quite a tall story; Mattathias the father of Judas Maccabeus
referred to Daniel.
1 Macc 2:60 Daniel for his innocency was delivered from the mouth of
lions.
Jesus referred to Daniel as though it were holy scripture and called
him a prophet.
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him
that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the
mountains:
What makes the book of Daniel difficult to read is the fact that all of
these events were future to him, Antiochus 4 (Dan 8.14; 12.11-12), Titus
(Dan 9.26-27), and the Antichrist (Dan 7.8,11; 12.7).
Dan 9:26-27 does not refer to Titus. You assume it was. That can only be a
futurist interpretation. That some futurist Jews at the time of Jesus
expected that the Temple would be destroyed again is obvious. That Temple
was a monopoly, an abomination, a Jewish racket. That some religious Judeans
were using the book of Daniel then for their predictions should be of no
surprise. They only did what you sacred fortune tellers are doing and have
been doing for the last 2000 years.
One of the predictions of Daniel that most people have misunderstood
is his statement that the "sanctuary" would be cleansed after 2,300
evening-mornings, which refers to the sanctuary of heaven, not
something to do with the Jerusalem temple.
Some have assumed he was referring to the Jerusalem temple being
restored by the Maccabees but the period of desolation of the temple
reported in the books of Maccabees does not match Daniel's prophecy.
Maccabees reports the restoration occurred after 3 years of
desolation. If Daniel was fraudulent, as you claim, and edited by Jews
after the events described, why wouldn't the time periods match? Your
claim makes no sense. That would be a major blunder on the part of
those perpetrating the fraud, wouldn't it?
Dan 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto
that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision
concerning the continual, and the transgression of desolation, to give
both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred
days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Note that I have changed "daily sacrifice" to "continual" which is
more true to the original meaning; this is not referring to an obscure
ritual sacrifice in the Mosaic law. Daniel writes about the
"continual" being taken away by Antiochus IV, and he also cast several
things down to the earth: the stars, the place of God's sanctuary
(heaven), the host of heaven (sun and moon, constellations, planets,
etc.), and the truth. The "continual" is a reference to the diurnal
rotation of the earth, the knowledge of which was stamped out in the
time of Antiochus IV. He actively promoted the worship of Zeus
Olympus, the sky god of the Greeks. The Greek cosmology was geocentric
and assumed the sky revolved around the earth. Zeus was identified
with the rigid sky which held up all the stars, sun and moon, planets,
etc. There were some scholars who questioned the reality of a rigid
sky around the time of Antiochus; Seleucus of Babylon supported a
heliocentric cosmology and claimed it was "not just a hypothesis but a
fact." This would have threatened the Greek religion which was
actively promoted by Antiochus. He had financed the construction of a
huge temple of Zeus in Athens, and he built a temple of Jupiter
Capitolinus in Antioch, and had a statue of Zeus made for the temple
of Apollo at Daphne, and he caused several temples in his realm to be
converted to temples of Zeus including the Jerusalem temple. Antiochus
and his agents stamped out the knowledge of the earth's diurnal
rotation, and established the supremacy of the geocentric cosmology of
the Greeks with its system of rigid spheres. Daniel's prophecy said
the heavenly sanctuary would be "cleansed" after 2,300
evening-mornings. This can be interpreted as 2,300 years, so the
prophecy indicates the heavens would be cleansed 23 centuries after it
was given, in the mid 6th century BC. Sure enough, after 23 centuries,
the old cosmology was abandoned, and men realised it is the earth that
moves, not the sky. The rigid heavenly firmament and the planetary
spheres were swept away like old cobwebs when the discoveries of
Newton and Galileo and Copernicus and Kepler and others were finally
accepted. It was the scientific revolution that Daniel foretold.
Since Antiochus 4 was a very significant person who was closer to the time
of Daniel, he plays a predominant role in the prophecy. But we also hear
of
both Titus and Antichrist.
randy
There are no prophecy in Daniel. It's apocalyptic literature written after
the facts as the book of Revelation was, written after the facts in an
apocalyptic way. Men cannot predict the future of humankind but they sure
can write. Most of the predictions soothsayers wrote so far were false
predictions.
Daniel said "none of the wicked shall understand", and his prophecy
seems to have been vindicated.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord,
what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up
and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the
wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but
the wise shall understand.
Doug
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| User: "Scorpio" |
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| Title: Re: END TIMES |
06 Jun 2005 10:07:16 AM |
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"Douglas Cox" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
news:ksi8a19qc93nq92ugi5vna5pjbslvfpvfc@4ax.com...
"Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com> wrote:
You under estimate the subtlety of the Jewish spirit. The book of Daniel
is
a collection of apocalyptic literature written by different authors at
different times in history and presented as if it was written by one
Daniel.
The part referring to Anthiochus was written after the events described
had
taken place.
This is quite a tall story; Mattathias the father of Judas Maccabeus
referred to Daniel.
Jesus referred to Daniel as though it were holy scripture and called
him a prophet.
And so did most religious Jews at the time of Jesus. So did the evangelists.
One of the predictions of Daniel that most people have misunderstood
is his statement that the "sanctuary" would be cleansed after 2,300
evening-mornings, which refers to the sanctuary of heaven, not
something to do with the Jerusalem temple.
A soothsayer is someone who claims to have special knowledge and is able to
foretell events or predict the future; a seer.
There are no prophesies in Daniel.
The Seleucid King Antiochus IV Epiphanes desecrated the temple in December,
167 B.C., as we see in Daniel 7:11-14. Verse 8:14 implies the writer has
seen the rededication of the sanctuary in December, 164 B.C.E. The passage
11:40-45 shows that the death of Antiochus IV Epiphanes was in the future.
The Seleucid King died in April, 163 B.C.E. We can thereby date the visions
almost to the month. They are clearly an immediate apocalyptic forecast."
- Tom Simms (CrossTalk)
"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the
commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince
shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be
built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for
himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city
and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the
end of the war desolations are determined."
- Daniel 9:25-26
"The High Priest Jason was legitimate in the eyes of many Jews. So the words
'shall Messiah be cut off' relate directly to the Greek King personally
returning and dedicating the Temple to Zeus. He sacrificed swine on the
altar! The historical intervals of these episodes compare directly to the
Prophecy of Weeks. The Weeks were of days and of nothing else!"
- Tom Simms (CrossTalk)
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the
abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred
and ninety days."
- Daniel 12:11
"...From the ending of the Temple cult to the Last Judgment there would be
1,290 days (in a postscript, a later author extended the number to 1,335).
They ran, therefore, from December 167 to spring 163: the author,
presumably, was writing in early 164 (perhaps when the first prophecy of
'three times and a half' was looking too optimistic)."
"King Antiochus would be rebuffed by Rome (this already happened in Egypt):
he would return, however, to conquer Egypt and would then turn east and
north on diverting news. Finally, he would encamp in Syria where Michael,
Israel's angel, would defeat him spectacularly. A time of awful trouble
would follow, 'such as never was'; then, many of those who had died would
awake."
- Robin Lane Fox, The Unauthorized Version
The numbers of days "relate to the time to the restoration of the sanctuary
from either the beginning or the end of Jason's second time as High Priest.
The days of the forecast are days, only days and nothing else!"
- Tom Simms (CrossTalk)
"According to the 1290 days indication, this event happened around April of
164 B.C.E., a very appropriate time in order to disturb the Passover Jewish
sacrifices."
- Bernard Muller, "The Prophesies of Daniel"
"Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and
thirty-five days."
- Daniel 12:12
"Written later in the spring. The same ex-Jews and soldiers were chased back
one and a half months later (likely in early June of 164 B.C.E.)"
- Bernard Muller, "The Prophesies of Daniel"
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/maccabees.html
Doug (the seer) :-)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Douglas Cox" |
|
| Title: Re: END TIMES |
06 Jun 2005 12:53:12 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:07:16 -0400, "Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com>
wrote:
"Douglas Cox" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
news:ksi8a19qc93nq92ugi5vna5pjbslvfpvfc@4ax.com...
"Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com> wrote:
You under estimate the subtlety of the Jewish spirit. The book of Daniel
is
a collection of apocalyptic literature written by different authors at
different times in history and presented as if it was written by one
Daniel.
The part referring to Anthiochus was written after the events described
had
taken place.
This is quite a tall story; Mattathias the father of Judas Maccabeus
referred to Daniel.
Jesus referred to Daniel as though it were holy scripture and called
him a prophet.
And so did most religious Jews at the time of Jesus. So did the evangelists.
One of the predictions of Daniel that most people have misunderstood
is his statement that the "sanctuary" would be cleansed after 2,300
evening-mornings, which refers to the sanctuary of heaven, not
something to do with the Jerusalem temple.
A soothsayer is someone who claims to have special knowledge and is able to
foretell events or predict the future; a seer.
There are no prophesies in Daniel.
The Seleucid King Antiochus IV Epiphanes desecrated the temple in December,
167 B.C., as we see in Daniel 7:11-14. Verse 8:14 implies the writer has
seen the rededication of the sanctuary in December, 164 B.C.E. The passage
11:40-45 shows that the death of Antiochus IV Epiphanes was in the future.
The Seleucid King died in April, 163 B.C.E. We can thereby date the visions
almost to the month. They are clearly an immediate apocalyptic forecast."
- Tom Simms (CrossTalk)
So, according to this fellow, Daniel composed his story, presumably
writing it out on a tattered old scroll that he found, and tried to
convince his countrymen, pious Jews, that it was an authentic
prophecy, and holy scripture, dating from centuries earlier?
Give me a break. Meanwhile the Jews were engaged in a war with the
Seleucid army. A strange, tall story indeed. Are you really so
gullible?
"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the
commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince
shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be
built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for
himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city
and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the
end of the war desolations are determined."
- Daniel 9:25-26
Yes, this is Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks, that none of the
scholars was able to figure out correctly, because they failed to take
into account that there are different units in the various parts.
It is interpreted in the following chart.
Note: This is best viewed with fixed font.
____________________________________________________________________
| |
| 70 Weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 |
|__________________________________________________________________|
| | | |
| | | |
| 7 weeks | 7 x 7 leap years = 133 years | 538 BC - 405 BC |
| | (1 leap year = 13 months) | |
|__________|__________________________________|____________________|
| | | |
| | | |
| 62 weeks | 62 x 7 years = 434 years | 405 BC - 28 AD |
| | | |
|__________|__________________________________|____________________|
| | | |
| | 3.5 year ministry of Jesus | 28 AD - 31 AD |
| 1 week |__________________________________|____________________|
| | | |
| | "time, times and a half" | 31 AD - ? |
| | The holy city is the Church | |
| | | |
|__________|__________________________________|____________________|
See also:
http://www.sentex.net/%7Etcc/Daniels_Time.html
"The High Priest Jason was legitimate in the eyes of many Jews. So the words
'shall Messiah be cut off' relate directly to the Greek King personally
returning and dedicating the Temple to Zeus. He sacrificed swine on the
altar! The historical intervals of these episodes compare directly to the
Prophecy of Weeks. The Weeks were of days and of nothing else!"
- Tom Simms (CrossTalk)
So is Tom Simms suggesting that Daniel refers to the hellenizing high
priest Jason, who was appointed by Antiochus IV, as a "Messiah"?
How absurd!
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the
abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred
and ninety days."
- Daniel 12:11
This is the mysterious "time, times, and a half" of Dan 12:7 broken
down into 1 year of 13 months, 2 years of 12 months, plus a half year
of 12 months, for a total of 1,290 days. In the Hebrew and Babylonian
calendars, the years were either 12 or 13 months.
13 x 30 = 390
2 x 12 x 30 = 720
½ x 12 x 30 = 180
Total: 1,290 days
Similarly the 1,335 days is the "time, times, and a half" broken down
into 1 year of 12 months, 2 years of 13 months, and a half year of 13
months, for a total of 1,335 days.
12 x 30 = 360
2 x 13 x 30 = 780
½ x 13 x 30 = 195
Total: 1,335 days
"...From the ending of the Temple cult to the Last Judgment there would be
1,290 days (in a postscript, a later author extended the number to 1,335).
They ran, therefore, from December 167 to spring 163: the author,
presumably, was writing in early 164 (perhaps when the first prophecy of
'three times and a half' was looking too optimistic)."
"King Antiochus would be rebuffed by Rome (this already happened in Egypt):
he would return, however, to conquer Egypt and would then turn east and
north on diverting news. Finally, he would encamp in Syria where Michael,
Israel's angel, would defeat him spectacularly. A time of awful trouble
would follow, 'such as never was'; then, many of those who had died would
awake."
- Robin Lane Fox, The Unauthorized Version
Another one who fulfills Daniel's prophecy, "none of the wicked shall
understand" Dan 12:10.
The numbers of days "relate to the time to the restoration of the sanctuary
from either the beginning or the end of Jason's second time as High Priest.
The days of the forecast are days, only days and nothing else!"
- Tom Simms (CrossTalk)
His tone reminds me a bit of our "Pastor Dave"!
Doug
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray" |
|
| Title: Re: END TIMES |
07 Jun 2005 08:05:18 AM |
|
|
"Douglas Cox" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
news:dn09a1d1fuqnr4753aa10s5v5ldmu5sj9k@4ax.com...
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:07:16 -0400, "Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com>
wrote:
"Douglas Cox" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
news:ksi8a19qc93nq92ugi5vna5pjbslvfpvfc@4ax.com...
"Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com> wrote:
You under estimate the subtlety of the Jewish spirit. The book of
Daniel
is
a collection of apocalyptic literature written by different authors at
different times in history and presented as if it was written by one
Daniel.
The part referring to Anthiochus was written after the events described
had
taken place.
This is quite a tall story; Mattathias the father of Judas Maccabeus
referred to Daniel.
Jesus referred to Daniel as though it were holy scripture and called
him a prophet.
And so did most religious Jews at the time of Jesus. So did the
evangelists.
One of the predictions of Daniel that most people have misunderstood
is his statement that the "sanctuary" would be cleansed after 2,300
evening-mornings, which refers to the sanctuary of heaven, not
something to do with the Jerusalem temple.
A soothsayer is someone who claims to have special knowledge and is able
to
foretell events or predict the future; a seer.
There are no prophesies in Daniel.
The Seleucid King Antiochus IV Epiphanes desecrated the temple in
December,
167 B.C., as we see in Daniel 7:11-14. Verse 8:14 implies the writer has
seen the rededication of the sanctuary in December, 164 B.C.E. The
passage
11:40-45 shows that the death of Antiochus IV Epiphanes was in the
future.
The Seleucid King died in April, 163 B.C.E. We can thereby date the
visions
almost to the month. They are clearly an immediate apocalyptic forecast."
- Tom Simms (CrossTalk)
So, according to this fellow, Daniel composed his story, presumably
writing it out on a tattered old scroll that he found, and tried to
convince his countrymen, pious Jews, that it was an authentic
prophecy, and holy scripture, dating from centuries earlier?
Give me a break. Meanwhile the Jews were engaged in a war with the
Seleucid army. A strange, tall story indeed. Are you really so
gullible?
"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the
commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince
shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be
built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not
for
himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the
city
and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto
the
end of the war desolations are determined."
- Daniel 9:25-26
Yes, this is Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks, that none of the
scholars was able to figure out correctly, because they failed to take
into account that there are different units in the various parts.
It is interpreted in the following chart.
Note: This is best viewed with fixed font.
____________________________________________________________________
| |
| 70 Weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 |
|__________________________________________________________________|
| | | |
| | | |
| 7 weeks | 7 x 7 leap years = 133 years | 538 BC - 405 BC |
| | (1 leap year = 13 months) | |
|__________|__________________________________|____________________|
| | | |
| | | |
| 62 weeks | 62 x 7 years = 434 years | 405 BC - 28 AD |
| | | |
|__________|__________________________________|____________________|
| | | |
| | 3.5 year ministry of Jesus | 28 AD - 31 AD |
| 1 week |__________________________________|____________________|
| | | |
| | "time, times and a half" | 31 AD - ? |
| | The holy city is the Church | |
| | | |
|__________|__________________________________|____________________|
See also:
http://www.sentex.net/%7Etcc/Daniels_Time.html
"The High Priest Jason was legitimate in the eyes of many Jews. So the
words
'shall Messiah be cut off' relate directly to the Greek King personally
returning and dedicating the Temple to Zeus. He sacrificed swine on the
altar! The historical intervals of these episodes compare directly to the
Prophecy of Weeks. The Weeks were of days and of nothing else!"
- Tom Simms (CrossTalk)
So is Tom Simms suggesting that Daniel refers to the hellenizing high
priest Jason, who was appointed by Antiochus IV, as a "Messiah"?
How absurd!
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the
abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two
hundred
and ninety days."
- Daniel 12:11
This is the mysterious "time, times, and a half" of Dan 12:7 broken
down into 1 year of 13 months, 2 years of 12 months, plus a half year
of 12 months, for a total of 1,290 days. In the Hebrew and Babylonian
calendars, the years were either 12 or 13 months.
13 x 30 = 390
2 x 12 x 30 = 720
½ x 12 x 30 = 180
Total: 1,290 days
Similarly the 1,335 days is the "time, times, and a half" broken down
into 1 year of 12 months, 2 years of 13 months, and a half year of 13
months, for a total of 1,335 days.
12 x 30 = 360
2 x 13 x 30 = 780
½ x 13 x 30 = 195
Total: 1,335 days
"...From the ending of the Temple cult to the Last Judgment there would
be
1,290 days (in a postscript, a later author extended the number to
1,335).
They ran, therefore, from December 167 to spring 163: the author,
presumably, was writing in early 164 (perhaps when the first prophecy of
'three times and a half' was looking too optimistic)."
"King Antiochus would be rebuffed by Rome (this already happened in
Egypt):
he would return, however, to conquer Egypt and would then turn east and
north on diverting news. Finally, he would encamp in Syria where Michael,
Israel's angel, would defeat him spectacularly. A time of awful trouble
would follow, 'such as never was'; then, many of those who had died would
awake."
- Robin Lane Fox, The Unauthorized Version
Another one who fulfills Daniel's prophecy, "none of the wicked shall
understand" Dan 12:10.
The numbers of days "relate to the time to the restoration of the
sanctuary
from either the beginning or the end of Jason's second time as High
Priest.
The days of the forecast are days, only days and nothing else!"
- Tom Simms (CrossTalk)
His tone reminds me a bit of our "Pastor Dave"!
Doug
Hi Doug
I Have worked on this from a few angles and the timeline for the prophecy is
the death of the Messiah after the 69th week.
Which too many count by regular years times to get the day he rode into
Jersalem on a donkey. IT doesnt say that.
I take it from Artaxerxes 20th year of reign in the month of Nisan as
described by his cup bearer Nehemiah in ch2.
http://watchman888.land.ru/images/daniels69weeks.gif
Then to back this up, Jesus is said to be around 33 at this time of death.
By the same measure of years as 12 x 30 days (luna cycles are the whole
reason for months)
http://watchman888.land.ru/images/JCbirth2.gif
These two images, best seen printed out side by side will show there is more
than a coincidence, and indeed a divine design in these things.
All these things must back each other up and not contradict each other.
Which brings the context of the 70th seven as occuring at the end time,
starting with a convenant peace treaty by the prince which is to come...
which is the same "people of the prince which is to come" which killed the
messiah in the previous verse.
Interesting to note the Revelation 12 prophecy of The GREAT sign in the
heavens at Jesus birth is happening so far seemingly out of context. I would
like to suggest that God foreknew we could see this NOW in astronomy
software simulators like skyglobe.exe.
Then there are all these other 33 images from various angles showing how a
great puzzle is "unsealed" revealed at this time.
http://watchman888.land.ru/
I think you will find if you keep giving PD the benefit of the doubt he will
lead you along and turn on you time and time again. He is skilled in
manipulation to keep people biting, as if he was a demon thousands of years
old wrapping us around his little finger.
PEace
Ray
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Scorpio" |
|
| Title: Re: END TIMES |
06 Jun 2005 04:50:48 PM |
|
|
"Douglas Cox" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
news:dn09a1d1fuqnr4753aa10s5v5ldmu5sj9k@4ax.com...
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:07:16 -0400, "Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com>
wrote:
"Douglas Cox" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
news:ksi8a19qc93nq92ugi5vna5pjbslvfpvfc@4ax.com...
"Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com> wrote:
You under estimate the subtlety of the Jewish spirit. The book of Daniel
is
a collection of apocalyptic literature written by different authors at
different times in history and presented as if it was written by one
Daniel.
The part referring to Anthiochus was written after the events described
had
taken place.
This is quite a tall story; Mattathias the father of Judas Maccabeus
referred to Daniel.
Jesus referred to Daniel as though it were holy scripture and called
him a prophet.
And so did most religious Jews at the time of Jesus. So did the
evangelists.
One of the predictions of Daniel that most people have misunderstood
is his statement that the "sanctuary" would be cleansed after 2,300
evening-mornings, which refers to the sanctuary of heaven, not
something to do with the Jerusalem temple.
A soothsayer is someone who claims to have special knowledge and is able
to
foretell events or predict the future; a seer.
There are no prophesies in Daniel.
The Seleucid King Antiochus IV Epiphanes desecrated the temple in
December,
167 B.C., as we see in Daniel 7:11-14. Verse 8:14 implies the writer has
seen the rededication of the sanctuary in December, 164 B.C.E. The passage
11:40-45 shows that the death of Antiochus IV Epiphanes was in the future.
The Seleucid King died in April, 163 B.C.E. We can thereby date the
visions
almost to the month. They are clearly an immediate apocalyptic forecast."
- Tom Simms (CrossTalk)
So, according to this fellow, Daniel composed his story, presumably
writing it out on a tattered old scroll that he found, and tried to
convince his countrymen, pious Jews, that it was an authentic
prophecy, and holy scripture, dating from centuries earlier?
You sure like to complicate things. It's possible that the author of the
first Daniel one wrote on a 'tattered old scroll'.
There are only 39 books in the Modern Jewish Tanach, more than one Daniel in
the book of Daniel and more than one Isaiah in the book of Isaiah.
You are quite correct when you state that the author(s) of Daniel wanted to
''convince his countrymen, pious Jews, that it was authentic prophecies,
dating from centuries earlier'. Old Testament writings became scripture for
Jews over centuries.
The author of the Gospel according to John wanted to convince people that
Jesus performed many miracles. When one reads John his is on the impression
that the seven miracles attributed to Jesus were performed during Jesus'
lifetime. Not so, the reason why the author calls those miracles, SIGNS.
Those signs are allegories. Why were those stories written? So we may
believe.
John 20:30 Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples,
which are not written in this book. 31 But these are written, that you may
believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God: and that believing, you
may have life in his name.
Give me a break. Meanwhile the Jews were engaged in a war with the
Seleucid army. A strange, tall story indeed. Are you really so
gullible?
How stupid can one be. You claim that part of the book of Daniel could not
have been written in 162 BC because Jews were at war with the Seleucid army?
It is generally accepted by scholars of ALL theological orientations that
some of the elements of Daniel 11 were fulfilled (at least partially) by
Antiochus IV Epiphanes (175-164 BC), with the 'abomination of desolation'
being in 167 BC. Three and a half years afterwards - around June of 163 BC -
the end was supposed to come. Michael was supposed to appear. The dead were
supposed to resurrect. The kingdom of God was supposed to replace the
kingdoms of men, and the saints were supposed to live blissfully forever.
The author, presumably, was writing in early 164 BC. Then the sacred fortune
teller got lost.
"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the
commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince
shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be
built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not
for
himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the
city
and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the
end of the war desolations are determined."
- Daniel 9:25-26
Yes, this is Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks, that none of the
scholars was able to figure out correctly....
Some manure snipped. It smelled and made me pute. LOL
"The High Priest Jason was legitimate in the eyes of many Jews. So the
words
'shall Messiah be cut off' relate directly to the Greek King personally
returning and dedicating the Temple to Zeus. He sacrificed swine on the
altar! The historical intervals of these episodes compare directly to the
Prophecy of Weeks. The Weeks were of days and of nothing else!"
- Tom Simms (CrossTalk)
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the
abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two
hundred
and ninety days."
- Daniel 12:11
Another load of manure went by. Figures and all. LOL
"...From the ending of the Temple cult to the Last Judgment there would be
1,290 days (in a postscript, a later author extended the number to 1,335).
They ran, therefore, from December 167 to spring 163: the author,
presumably, was writing in early 164 (perhaps when the first prophecy of
'three times and a half' was looking too optimistic)."
"King Antiochus would be rebuffed by Rome (this already happened in
Egypt):
he would return, however, to conquer Egypt and would then turn east and
north on diverting news. Finally, he would encamp in Syria where Michael,
Israel's angel, would defeat him spectacularly. A time of awful trouble
would follow, 'such as never was'; then, many of those who had died would
awake."
- Robin Lane Fox, The Unauthorized Version
The numbers of days "relate to the time to the restoration of the
sanctuary
from either the beginning or the end of Jason's second time as High
Priest.
The days of the forecast are days, only days and nothing else!"
- Tom Simms (CrossTalk)
His tone reminds me a bit of our "Pastor Dave"!
Dave and I are not always on the same wave lenght but I'm sure he couldn't
agree with the futurist 'antiaging' ***** you sent here. Dave Raymond is
a protest-ant minister. :-)
Doug
.
|
|
|
| User: "Douglas Cox" |
|
| Title: Re: END TIMES |
06 Jun 2005 10:50:15 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:50:48 -0400, "Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com>
wrote:
"Douglas Cox" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
news:dn09a1d1fuqnr4753aa10s5v5ldmu5sj9k@4ax.com...
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:07:16 -0400, "Scorpio" <Post@4U_pinhead.com>
wrote:
<snip>
How stupid can one be. You claim that part of the book of Daniel could not
have been written in 162 BC because Jews were at war with the Seleucid army?
It is generally accepted by scholars of ALL theological orientations that
some of the elements of Daniel 11 were fulfilled (at least partially) by
Antiochus IV Epiphanes (175-164 BC), with the 'abomination of desolation'
being in 167 BC.
That much I agree with, as the abomination of desolation could be the
holy temple being dedicated to Zeus Olympus. However in chapter 8 the
ultimate fulfillment is said to be at the "time of the end" which
indicates the desecration of the temple under Antiochus IV was merely
a type of a far more sinister development:
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the
transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and
understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and
he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and
shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper
in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace
shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of
princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
So it is this, the "king of fierce countenance", who destroys the
"mighty and the holy people" that is the real abomination of
desolation that Jesus referred to as future to his time.
Three and a half years afterwards - around June of 163 BC -
the end was supposed to come.
That would not follow from the 70 weeks prophecy, which begins with
the decree of Cyrus in 538 BC. From reading it, Jews living in the 2nd
century BC would suppose the end to be at least a century and a half
away, assuming the "seventy sevens" meant 490 years.
Michael was supposed to appear. The dead were
supposed to resurrect. The kingdom of God was supposed to replace the
kingdoms of men, and the saints were supposed to live blissfully forever.
Not an obvious conclusion at all. The 4th beast of chapter 7 had not
yet appeared either.
The author, presumably, was writing in early 164 BC. Then the sacred fortune
teller got lost.
When the Maccabees were wondering what to do with the stones of the
altar that had been polluted by Antiochus, as they were cleaning up
the temple, there was no prophet around to tell them what they should
do.
1 Macc 4:41 Then Judas appointed certain men to fight against those
that were in the fortress, until he had cleansed the sanctuary.
1 Macc 4:42 So he chose priests of blameless conversation, such as
had pleasure in the law:
1 Macc 4:43 Who cleansed the sanctuary, and bare out the defiled
stones into an unclean place.
1 Macc 4:44 And when as they consulted what to do with the altar of
burnt offerings, which was profaned;
1 Macc 4:45 They thought it best to pull it down, lest it should be a
reproach to them, because the heathen had defiled it: wherefore they
pulled it down,
1 Macc 4:46 And laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a
convenient place, until there should come a prophet to shew what
should be done with them.
If he was living at the time, why would they not have asked the writer
of Daniel for advice? Oh, I suppose yet another conspiracy hypothesis
can answer that.
Doug
.
|
|
|
| User: "Scorpio" |
|
| Title: Re: END TIMES |
07 Jun 2005 12:31:51 AM |
|
|
&qu | | | | | | |
