| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
20 Nov 2007 07:18:07 AM |
| Object: |
Eschatology in American History |
Eschatology in American History
by Doug Reed
In this article we will take a look at how eschatological
beliefs have shaped the history of the United States
and what we can hope for in the future.
It is a well known fact that eschatological beliefs have
shaped politics in recent years. Dispensationalist thought
has help lead to the United States’ unconditional support
of Israel, and if you study the history of Zionism, you will
see that eschatological beliefs had a great deal to do with
the founding of the Jewish state. In many respects the
birth of Israel was a self-fulfilled prophesy. Those who
believed Israel would have to be reborn before Jesus
returned had no small part in the events of 1948.
Apparently, what we are seeing today is not new.
Eschatology has shaped America from the very beginning.
We know that many today think of the United States as
the great Babylon of the book of Revelation. However,
that was not always that case. In fact, at its inception
America was thought to play another character in the
book of Revelation. That’s right, the New Jerusalem.
Oh, how times have changed!
Christopher Columbus, who was an avid prophesy student,
wrote this near the end of his life:
“God made me the messenger of the new heaven and
the new earth of which he spoke in the Apocalypse of
St. John after having spoken of it through the mouth
of Isaiah; and he showed me the spot where to find it.”
If you study the history of prophetic beliefs you will see
that the times help shape people’s understanding of the
signs of the times. Many of the Puritans had strong
postmillennial beliefs. They felt that the new world
was ordained by God to help usher in Christ’s millennial
kingdom. This belief reached a fever pitch around the
time of the American Revolution. The first Great Awaking
began about 25 or 30 years before the Revolutionary war.
This amazing revival caused many preachers to proclaim
that American was God’s instrument to usher in His kingdom.
It was widely believed that Israel in prophesy was a type
of America, and that the throne of Christ’s coming kingdom
would be somewhere in the 13 colonies. I suppose the
regathering of Israel was the migration to the new world.
In the 18th century Jonathan Edwards said that America
would be the land where God would “begin a new world
in a spiritual respect, when he creates the new heavens
and the new earth.”.
John Adams in 1765 wrote the settling of America was
“the opening of a grand scheme and design in Providence
for the illumination of the ignorant and the emancipation
of the slavish part of mankind all over the earth.”.
Even the motto on the great seal of the United States
currency may have had eschatological influence. It reads
NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM with the years 1776 it in Roman
numerals. Translated this means “A new order of the ages”.
Contrary to paranoid Futurist beliefs, Charles Thompson
who chose this motto did not have secret “new age”
thought in mind, but he may have been influenced
by the popular belief of that day that the United States
would be used to usher in Christ’s millennial kingdom.
Later in the 1830’s the Frenchman Alexis de Tocqueville
observed that American religious and political values
were so intertwined as to be inseparable.
A early 19th century hymn expressed the common thought
of the day.
“The great reform is drawing near
Long looked for soon will come
The time will move both earth and sea
Just like glorious Jubilee.”
The colonists had their tribulation scenarios just as many
do today. King George took the role of the Antichrist.
The stamp act was the mark of the beast.
Someone calculated that the words “Royal Supremacy
in Great Britain” equaled 666 in the Greek and Hebrew.
Without a doubt eschatological belief played a role
in leading the colonies into war with Great Britain.
What was coming from the pulpits had a great influence
on the American mindset. This understanding could
even been seen in one of the Revolutionary War battle
cries, “No king but Jesus!”.
This belief reached an all time high with the victory over
England. It was widely believed that the United States
would go on to usher in the kingdom. The year most
believed to be the beginning of the millennial reign of
Christ was the year 2000!
Although premillennialism, the more negative brand
of millennialism, was muted in this time, it had its
proponents. Preterists say that the idea of the rapture did
not appear until the nineteenth century. However a fellow
named Cotton Mather may have been the first to speak of it.
Around the time of the Revolutionary War he wrote that the
earth would be consumed by fire, but the saints would be
caught up in the air before this happened.
When speaking of prophetic belief in America,
historian Paul Boyer wrote:
“…One approach will flourish and then wane, to be
replaced by another, or by an interval when prophetic
belief recedes. But then, under different circumstances,
the picture changes: apocalypticism again looms large;
long-dormant interpretive approaches take on new vitality.”
What is that old saying? Those who do not know history
are doomed to repeat it.
A good question to ask is what caused the eschatological
paradigm in the United States to change from postmillennial
to premillennial? Postmillennialism is optimistic and
activist. Postmillennialists had a great deal to do with
founding the United States. They were very optimistic
about the future and believed it would get better and
better. They were also social activists and were heavily
involved in issues like the abolition of slavery. The
premillennialists were and are very negative. They believe
things will get worse and worse. They are not totally
passive however. Their thought is that the world is
a sinking ship, and they work to save as many people
off of it as possible.
Our brother Waidmann wrote an interesting article a while
back saying that the fall of a paradigm begins with an
anomaly. That is something the system can’t explain.
Premillennialism began its rise to dominance in the late
1850’s or so. That date should give us a clue what the
first great anomaly against the postmillennial mindset
was. The Civil war. Brother turned against brother in
the bloodiest war ever fought on American soil.
The country was literally ripped in two!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did they think of Mat 10:21 ("the brother shall deliver
up the brother to death")? Once again, it seems that
they act as if the Bible was written just the day before
they happened to open one for the first time.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The second great anomaly was the industrialization
of America. This caused great social upheaval and
in many cases fear. Social upheaval invites end of
the world speculation in every instance.
However, anomalies alone may not be enough to change
a paradigm. There has to be a mindset available to replace
the ruling paradigm and someone to present it. Enter John
Darby! He started preaching in the United States in 1859.
What timing! Things were just about to get bad in a hurry!
Darby was a charismatic, tireless fellow with great power
of persuasion. He and folks who would come later such
as Moody and Scofield started a grassroots movement that
grew with incredible speed. Then came the Scofield Bible,
and the rest is history.
This makes me believe that the anomaly alone does not
change eschatological paradigms. The second great factor
is the pulpit. What is being said from the pulpit shapes
people’s perception of events. For example, was the Civil
War a step forward or back? The abolition of slavery made
this country a better place, yet for a premillennialist to
admit that anything could be getting better destroys
his paradigm!
The same goes for today. For Premillennialism to be
correct, the world has to be a worse place than it has ever
been. And in fact, most premillennialists probably believe
this. Yet, we could argue that the world is a better place
than it has ever been and using history beat them soundly
in a debate. So, the perception of events that came from
the pulpit might be as important as the events themselves
in this battle between pre and postmillennialism.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A knowledge and understanding of history is one of
the Premillennialists worse enemies and that is why
you see them get so upset, when someone calls up
history into the discussion.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, this begs the question what is it going to take to get
folks to throw out millennialism altogether, and instead of
looking at current events to shape their eschatology, look
at the clear fulfillment of prophesy in the first century?
Dispensationalism will eventually encounter anomalies
and collapse, but if we cannot change the focus, another
form of millennialism will replace it, and the cycle will
continue.
Food for thought:
Here are some interesting questions we can ask using
the historical data:
The postmillennial worldview was that the kingdom of God
was coming. How did that view effect the people of God
and their influence on society?
The dispensationalist view is that the kingdom cannot be
achieved or experienced in this dispensation. How would
this effect the people of God and their influence on
society?
The Preterist view is that the kingdom of God is here—
not coming as it was in the first century and not postponed.
What potential impact should this worldview have on
the people of God?
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
Don't forget, Judas also left early.
.
|
|
| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: Eschatology in American History |
22 Nov 2007 03:32:26 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bkn5k3lub92np9gfefhughie191cng1ffv@4ax.com...
Eschatology in scripture:
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth....
Rev. 22:21
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that confess
not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the
antichrist.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Gunny Freedom" |
|
| Title: Re: Eschatology in American History |
20 Nov 2007 04:13:24 PM |
|
|
In article <bkn5k3lub92np9gfefhughie191cng1ffv@4ax.com>,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
Eschatology in American History
by Doug Reed
In this article we will take a look at how eschatological
beliefs have shaped the history of the United States
and what we can hope for in the future.
It is a well known fact that eschatological beliefs have
shaped politics in recent years. Dispensationalist thought
has help lead to the United States’ unconditional support
of Israel, and if you study the history of Zionism, you will
see that eschatological beliefs had a great deal to do with
the founding of the Jewish state. In many respects the
birth of Israel was a self-fulfilled prophesy. Those who
believed Israel would have to be reborn before Jesus
returned had no small part in the events of 1948.
Apparently, what we are seeing today is not new.
Eschatology has shaped America from the very beginning.
We know that many today think of the United States as
the great Babylon of the book of Revelation. However,
that was not always that case. In fact, at its inception
America was thought to play another character in the
book of Revelation. That’s right, the New Jerusalem.
Oh, how times have changed!
Christopher Columbus, who was an avid prophesy student,
wrote this near the end of his life:
“God made me the messenger of the new heaven and
the new earth of which he spoke in the Apocalypse of
St. John after having spoken of it through the mouth
of Isaiah; and he showed me the spot where to find it.”
If you study the history of prophetic beliefs you will see
that the times help shape people’s understanding of the
signs of the times. Many of the Puritans had strong
postmillennial beliefs. They felt that the new world
was ordained by God to help usher in Christ’s millennial
kingdom. This belief reached a fever pitch around the
time of the American Revolution. The first Great Awaking
began about 25 or 30 years before the Revolutionary war.
This amazing revival caused many preachers to proclaim
that American was God’s instrument to usher in His kingdom.
It was widely believed that Israel in prophesy was a type
of America, and that the throne of Christ’s coming kingdom
would be somewhere in the 13 colonies. I suppose the
regathering of Israel was the migration to the new world.
In the 18th century Jonathan Edwards said that America
would be the land where God would “begin a new world
in a spiritual respect, when he creates the new heavens
and the new earth.”.
John Adams in 1765 wrote the settling of America was
“the opening of a grand scheme and design in Providence
for the illumination of the ignorant and the emancipation
of the slavish part of mankind all over the earth.”.
Even the motto on the great seal of the United States
currency may have had eschatological influence. It reads
NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM with the years 1776 it in Roman
numerals. Translated this means “A new order of the ages”.
Contrary to paranoid Futurist beliefs, Charles Thompson
who chose this motto did not have secret “new age”
thought in mind, but he may have been influenced
by the popular belief of that day that the United States
would be used to usher in Christ’s millennial kingdom.
Later in the 1830’s the Frenchman Alexis de Tocqueville
observed that American religious and political values
were so intertwined as to be inseparable.
A early 19th century hymn expressed the common thought
of the day.
“The great reform is drawing near
Long looked for soon will come
The time will move both earth and sea
Just like glorious Jubilee.”
The colonists had their tribulation scenarios just as many
do today. King George took the role of the Antichrist.
The stamp act was the mark of the beast.
Someone calculated that the words “Royal Supremacy
in Great Britain” equaled 666 in the Greek and Hebrew.
Without a doubt eschatological belief played a role
in leading the colonies into war with Great Britain.
What was coming from the pulpits had a great influence
on the American mindset. This understanding could
even been seen in one of the Revolutionary War battle
cries, “No king but Jesus!”.
This belief reached an all time high with the victory over
England. It was widely believed that the United States
would go on to usher in the kingdom. The year most
believed to be the beginning of the millennial reign of
Christ was the year 2000!
Although premillennialism, the more negative brand
of millennialism, was muted in this time, it had its
proponents. Preterists say that the idea of the rapture did
not appear until the nineteenth century. However a fellow
named Cotton Mather may have been the first to speak of it.
Around the time of the Revolutionary War he wrote that the
earth would be consumed by fire, but the saints would be
caught up in the air before this happened.
When speaking of prophetic belief in America,
historian Paul Boyer wrote:
“…One approach will flourish and then wane, to be
replaced by another, or by an interval when prophetic
belief recedes. But then, under different circumstances,
the picture changes: apocalypticism again looms large;
long-dormant interpretive approaches take on new vitality.”
What is that old saying? Those who do not know history
are doomed to repeat it.
A good question to ask is what caused the eschatological
paradigm in the United States to change from postmillennial
to premillennial? Postmillennialism is optimistic and
activist. Postmillennialists had a great deal to do with
founding the United States. They were very optimistic
about the future and believed it would get better and
better. They were also social activists and were heavily
involved in issues like the abolition of slavery. The
premillennialists were and are very negative. They believe
things will get worse and worse. They are not totally
passive however. Their thought is that the world is
a sinking ship, and they work to save as many people
off of it as possible.
Our brother Waidmann wrote an interesting article a while
back saying that the fall of a paradigm begins with an
anomaly. That is something the system can’t explain.
Premillennialism began its rise to dominance in the late
1850’s or so. That date should give us a clue what the
first great anomaly against the postmillennial mindset
was. The Civil war. Brother turned against brother in
the bloodiest war ever fought on American soil.
The country was literally ripped in two!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did they think of Mat 10:21 ("the brother shall deliver
up the brother to death")? Once again, it seems that
they act as if the Bible was written just the day before
they happened to open one for the first time.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The second great anomaly was the industrialization
of America. This caused great social upheaval and
in many cases fear. Social upheaval invites end of
the world speculation in every instance.
However, anomalies alone may not be enough to change
a paradigm. There has to be a mindset available to replace
the ruling paradigm and someone to present it. Enter John
Darby! He started preaching in the United States in 1859.
What timing! Things were just about to get bad in a hurry!
Darby was a charismatic, tireless fellow with great power
of persuasion. He and folks who would come later such
as Moody and Scofield started a grassroots movement that
grew with incredible speed. Then came the Scofield Bible,
and the rest is history.
This makes me believe that the anomaly alone does not
change eschatological paradigms. The second great factor
is the pulpit. What is being said from the pulpit shapes
people’s perception of events. For example, was the Civil
War a step forward or back? The abolition of slavery made
this country a better place, yet for a premillennialist to
admit that anything could be getting better destroys
his paradigm!
The same goes for today. For Premillennialism to be
correct, the world has to be a worse place than it has ever
been. And in fact, most premillennialists probably believe
this. Yet, we could argue that the world is a better place
than it has ever been and using history beat them soundly
in a debate. So, the perception of events that came from
the pulpit might be as important as the events themselves
in this battle between pre and postmillennialism.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A knowledge and understanding of history is one of
the Premillennialists worse enemies and that is why
you see them get so upset, when someone calls up
history into the discussion.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, this begs the question what is it going to take to get
folks to throw out millennialism altogether, and instead of
looking at current events to shape their eschatology, look
at the clear fulfillment of prophesy in the first century?
Dispensationalism will eventually encounter anomalies
and collapse, but if we cannot change the focus, another
form of millennialism will replace it, and the cycle will
continue.
Food for thought:
Here are some interesting questions we can ask using
the historical data:
The postmillennial worldview was that the kingdom of God
was coming. How did that view effect the people of God
and their influence on society?
The dispensationalist view is that the kingdom cannot be
achieved or experienced in this dispensation. How would
this effect the people of God and their influence on
society?
The Preterist view is that the kingdom of God is here—
not coming as it was in the first century and not postponed.
What potential impact should this worldview have on
the people of God?
The so-called "Pastor" Dave challenges ACC to debate Preterism. After
only 2-3 rounds of discussion, he abandons any attempt to debate the
theology and the facts, and SPAM's ACC with FOURTY (40) cut'n'paste
articles fromt he "Preterist Archive" hoping to "declare victory" simply
by overwhelming us with the volume of his cut'n'pate spam!
Note especially in the list below, that all 40 messages were posted
within the span of 6 minutes:
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
PING: CHUCK - What Will You Say? 42
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Ancient Quotes - Church Fathers? 292
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Early Preterist Statements 167
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
The Resurrection of the Dead 771
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
REVELATION: WHEN WAS IT WRITTEN??? 534
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
CHUCK: Preterist Statements 655
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Oh, Chucky Chuckle Boy!!! - Part 1 46
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Oh, Chucky Chuckle Boy!!! - Part 2 360
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
The Significance of 70 AD 456
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
CHUCK: WILL YOU LIVE UP TO YOUR WORD OR NOT??? 172
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Irenaeus: 70 AD & Abrahamic Covenant 117
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Comments by Epiphanes 44
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Cool Info with Lots of Links to Writings Throughout Time 15
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Israel and the Church 72
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Justin Martyr: Sword , Plowshares and the Kingdom 59
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Clement: Abomination of Desolation 52
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Origen: Literal Interpretation Method 63
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Got Preterism? The Church Fathers' Did! 169
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Eusebius: Fulfilled 21
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Shake, Ratte and Roll! 336
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
* Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * 895
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Cloud Coming Recorded by Historians 54
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Church History 82
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Seige of Jerusalem 830
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
CHUCK: AND HERE IS HOW IT ENDED BETWEEN US!!!
386 11/20/07 8:17 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Historical Church Says Christ Returned! 322
11/20/07 8:17 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
PRE-CHRISTIAN PRETERISM 224
11/20/07 8:17 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Who IS Israel 184
11/20/07 8:17 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Early Preterist Statements 167
11/20/07 8:17 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
IF CHRIST HAS NOT COME! 407
11/20/07 8:17 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Preterism, Society and the Modern Church; Tackling the Taboo’s 214
11/20/07 8:18 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Eschatology in American History 231
11/20/07 8:18 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
God's Israel Identity 144
11/20/07 8:18 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Eschatology Failed!!! 360
11/20/07 8:18 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
The Dating of the Book of Revelation 399
11/20/07 8:18 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Eschatology from a First Century Viewpoint 183
11/20/07 8:18 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Dating of the Book of Revelation - More Info! 471
11/20/07 8:19 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
CLOUD COMING OF JESUS RECORDED!!! 328
11/20/07 8:19 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Crying Voices of the Great Tribulation. 183
11/20/07 8:19 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Who Was the Beast and What Was the Mark? 20
11/20/07 8:20 AM
--
Gunny Freedom's Blog: http://libertyline.blogspot.com/
Gunny's Hangout: http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php "Liberty's Price"
Become a Rifleman: http://appleseedinfo.org/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Eschatology in American History |
21 Nov 2007 06:01:57 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:13:24 -0500, Gunny Freedom
<glen42@gmail.com> decided to enlighten us by typing the
following:
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
The so-called "Pastor" Dave challenges ACC
to debate Preterism. After only 2-3 rounds
of discussion, he abandons any attempt to
debate the theology and the facts
You have this backwards. And the posts that
I wrote, were in response to those of Futurists
"spamming" and attacking me personally.
And where is the "2 or 3 rounds of discussion"?
You attacked me immediately!
Let us note that you immediately responded by
attacking the person while ignoring the content
of the post.
and SPAM's ACC with FOURTY (40) cut'n'paste
I don't think it was that many, but whatever.
People send a bunch of posts all the time
and you don't say a word, which proves that
your mission is to try to censor content that
you can't handle and that conflicts with your
own personal doctrine.
And yes, I write some and copy & paste some.
What is your problem with that? You never say
a word when Futurists do it. Why is that?
You wouldn't be a hypocrite, would you?
articles fromt he "Preterist Archive" hoping to
"declare victory" simply by overwhelming us
with the volume of his cut'n'pate spam!
The victory is Christ's. Something that YOU don't
believe has happened yet! But HE IS LORD NOW,
whether you wish to believe it or not!
As for you Futurists, I am not worried about
"declaring victory" over you, nor your doctrine,
since you never discuss it intelligently nor
reasonably anyway and just attack me after
one or two posts, when you see that your
doctrine is falling apart!
Of course, some people, like you, don't even
get that far and just immediately attack!
So let us note that now, once again, you have
proven to us that instead of discussing the issue
presented, you thought it best to attack me
personally instead. And yet, here you are,
hypocritically claiming that I'm the one who
refuses to debate an issue. <chuckle>
And btw, falsely labeling something "spam",
just because you don't like what it says,
only further proves your dishonesty and
lack of integrity.
Note especially in the list below, that all
40 messages were posted within the span
of 6 minutes:
I don't believe it was that high, but let us note that
you are going into one thread after another, posting
this response in each and every one of them.
Doesn't that make YOU guilty of "spamming us"
with 40 posts as well?
Oh no, wait, that's right! Futurists can't be guilty
of their own sins! <chuckle>
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
Exchange between Marge and Geoffrey the butler
on "Fresh Prince" (both African American):
Marge: "My brother, you have been oppressed,
repressed and suppressed. Don't you know
you can be free?"
Geoffrey: "I have known freedom. I don't like
the health plan."
.
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|
|
| User: "gatekeeper" |
|
| Title: Re: Eschatology in American History |
21 Nov 2007 01:17:13 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:13:24 -0500, Gunny Freedom
wrote:
In article <bkn5k3lub92np9gfefhughie191cng1ffv@4ax.com>,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
Eschatology in American History
by Doug Reed
In this article we will take a look at how eschatological
beliefs have shaped the history of the United States
and what we can hope for in the future.
It is a well known fact that eschatological beliefs have
shaped politics in recent years. Dispensationalist thought
has help lead to the United States’ unconditional support
of Israel, and if you study the history of Zionism, you will
see that eschatological beliefs had a great deal to do with
the founding of the Jewish state. In many respects the
birth of Israel was a self-fulfilled prophesy. Those who
believed Israel would have to be reborn before Jesus
returned had no small part in the events of 1948.
Apparently, what we are seeing today is not new.
Eschatology has shaped America from the very beginning.
We know that many today think of the United States as
the great Babylon of the book of Revelation. However,
that was not always that case. In fact, at its inception
America was thought to play another character in the
book of Revelation. That’s right, the New Jerusalem.
Oh, how times have changed!
Christopher Columbus, who was an avid prophesy student,
wrote this near the end of his life:
“God made me the messenger of the new heaven and
the new earth of which he spoke in the Apocalypse of
St. John after having spoken of it through the mouth
of Isaiah; and he showed me the spot where to find it.”
If you study the history of prophetic beliefs you will see
that the times help shape people’s understanding of the
signs of the times. Many of the Puritans had strong
postmillennial beliefs. They felt that the new world
was ordained by God to help usher in Christ’s millennial
kingdom. This belief reached a fever pitch around the
time of the American Revolution. The first Great Awaking
began about 25 or 30 years before the Revolutionary war.
This amazing revival caused many preachers to proclaim
that American was God’s instrument to usher in His kingdom.
It was widely believed that Israel in prophesy was a type
of America, and that the throne of Christ’s coming kingdom
would be somewhere in the 13 colonies. I suppose the
regathering of Israel was the migration to the new world.
In the 18th century Jonathan Edwards said that America
would be the land where God would “begin a new world
in a spiritual respect, when he creates the new heavens
and the new earth.”.
John Adams in 1765 wrote the settling of America was
“the opening of a grand scheme and design in Providence
for the illumination of the ignorant and the emancipation
of the slavish part of mankind all over the earth.”.
Even the motto on the great seal of the United States
currency may have had eschatological influence. It reads
NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM with the years 1776 it in Roman
numerals. Translated this means “A new order of the ages”.
Contrary to paranoid Futurist beliefs, Charles Thompson
who chose this motto did not have secret “new age”
thought in mind, but he may have been influenced
by the popular belief of that day that the United States
would be used to usher in Christ’s millennial kingdom.
Later in the 1830’s the Frenchman Alexis de Tocqueville
observed that American religious and political values
were so intertwined as to be inseparable.
A early 19th century hymn expressed the common thought
of the day.
“The great reform is drawing near
Long looked for soon will come
The time will move both earth and sea
Just like glorious Jubilee.”
The colonists had their tribulation scenarios just as many
do today. King George took the role of the Antichrist.
The stamp act was the mark of the beast.
Someone calculated that the words “Royal Supremacy
in Great Britain” equaled 666 in the Greek and Hebrew.
Without a doubt eschatological belief played a role
in leading the colonies into war with Great Britain.
What was coming from the pulpits had a great influence
on the American mindset. This understanding could
even been seen in one of the Revolutionary War battle
cries, “No king but Jesus!”.
This belief reached an all time high with the victory over
England. It was widely believed that the United States
would go on to usher in the kingdom. The year most
believed to be the beginning of the millennial reign of
Christ was the year 2000!
Although premillennialism, the more negative brand
of millennialism, was muted in this time, it had its
proponents. Preterists say that the idea of the rapture did
not appear until the nineteenth century. However a fellow
named Cotton Mather may have been the first to speak of it.
Around the time of the Revolutionary War he wrote that the
earth would be consumed by fire, but the saints would be
caught up in the air before this happened.
When speaking of prophetic belief in America,
historian Paul Boyer wrote:
“…One approach will flourish and then wane, to be
replaced by another, or by an interval when prophetic
belief recedes. But then, under different circumstances,
the picture changes: apocalypticism again looms large;
long-dormant interpretive approaches take on new vitality.”
What is that old saying? Those who do not know history
are doomed to repeat it.
A good question to ask is what caused the eschatological
paradigm in the United States to change from postmillennial
to premillennial? Postmillennialism is optimistic and
activist. Postmillennialists had a great deal to do with
founding the United States. They were very optimistic
about the future and believed it would get better and
better. They were also social activists and were heavily
involved in issues like the abolition of slavery. The
premillennialists were and are very negative. They believe
things will get worse and worse. They are not totally
passive however. Their thought is that the world is
a sinking ship, and they work to save as many people
off of it as possible.
Our brother Waidmann wrote an interesting article a while
back saying that the fall of a paradigm begins with an
anomaly. That is something the system can’t explain.
Premillennialism began its rise to dominance in the late
1850’s or so. That date should give us a clue what the
first great anomaly against the postmillennial mindset
was. The Civil war. Brother turned against brother in
the bloodiest war ever fought on American soil.
The country was literally ripped in two!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did they think of Mat 10:21 ("the brother shall deliver
up the brother to death")? Once again, it seems that
they act as if the Bible was written just the day before
they happened to open one for the first time.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The second great anomaly was the industrialization
of America. This caused great social upheaval and
in many cases fear. Social upheaval invites end of
the world speculation in every instance.
However, anomalies alone may not be enough to change
a paradigm. There has to be a mindset available to replace
the ruling paradigm and someone to present it. Enter John
Darby! He started preaching in the United States in 1859.
What timing! Things were just about to get bad in a hurry!
Darby was a charismatic, tireless fellow with great power
of persuasion. He and folks who would come later such
as Moody and Scofield started a grassroots movement that
grew with incredible speed. Then came the Scofield Bible,
and the rest is history.
This makes me believe that the anomaly alone does not
change eschatological paradigms. The second great factor
is the pulpit. What is being said from the pulpit shapes
people’s perception of events. For example, was the Civil
War a step forward or back? The abolition of slavery made
this country a better place, yet for a premillennialist to
admit that anything could be getting better destroys
his paradigm!
The same goes for today. For Premillennialism to be
correct, the world has to be a worse place than it has ever
been. And in fact, most premillennialists probably believe
this. Yet, we could argue that the world is a better place
than it has ever been and using history beat them soundly
in a debate. So, the perception of events that came from
the pulpit might be as important as the events themselves
in this battle between pre and postmillennialism.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A knowledge and understanding of history is one of
the Premillennialists worse enemies and that is why
you see them get so upset, when someone calls up
history into the discussion.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, this begs the question what is it going to take to get
folks to throw out millennialism altogether, and instead of
looking at current events to shape their eschatology, look
at the clear fulfillment of prophesy in the first century?
Dispensationalism will eventually encounter anomalies
and collapse, but if we cannot change the focus, another
form of millennialism will replace it, and the cycle will
continue.
Food for thought:
Here are some interesting questions we can ask using
the historical data:
The postmillennial worldview was that the kingdom of God
was coming. How did that view effect the people of God
and their influence on society?
The dispensationalist view is that the kingdom cannot be
achieved or experienced in this dispensation. How would
this effect the people of God and their influence on
society?
The Preterist view is that the kingdom of God is here—
not coming as it was in the first century and not postponed.
What potential impact should this worldview have on
the people of God?
The so-called "Pastor" Dave challenges ACC to debate Preterism. After
only 2-3 rounds of discussion, he abandons any attempt to debate the
theology and the facts, and SPAM's ACC with FOURTY (40) cut'n'paste
articles fromt he "Preterist Archive" hoping to "declare victory" simply
by overwhelming us with the volume of his cut'n'pate spam!
Note especially in the list below, that all 40 messages were posted
within the span of 6 minutes:
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
PING: CHUCK - What Will You Say? 42
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Ancient Quotes - Church Fathers? 292
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Early Preterist Statements 167
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
The Resurrection of the Dead 771
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
REVELATION: WHEN WAS IT WRITTEN??? 534
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
CHUCK: Preterist Statements 655
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Oh, Chucky Chuckle Boy!!! - Part 1 46
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Oh, Chucky Chuckle Boy!!! - Part 2 360
11/20/07 8:14 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
The Significance of 70 AD 456
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
CHUCK: WILL YOU LIVE UP TO YOUR WORD OR NOT??? 172
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Irenaeus: 70 AD & Abrahamic Covenant 117
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Comments by Epiphanes 44
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Cool Info with Lots of Links to Writings Throughout Time 15
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Israel and the Church 72
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Justin Martyr: Sword , Plowshares and the Kingdom 59
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Clement: Abomination of Desolation 52
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Origen: Literal Interpretation Method 63
11/20/07 8:15 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Got Preterism? The Church Fathers' Did! 169
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Eusebius: Fulfilled 21
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Shake, Ratte and Roll! 336
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
* Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * 895
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Cloud Coming Recorded by Historians 54
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Church History 82
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Seige of Jerusalem 830
11/20/07 8:16 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
CHUCK: AND HERE IS HOW IT ENDED BETWEEN US!!!
386 11/20/07 8:17 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Historical Church Says Christ Returned! 322
11/20/07 8:17 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
PRE-CHRISTIAN PRETERISM 224
11/20/07 8:17 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Who IS Israel 184
11/20/07 8:17 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Early Preterist Statements 167
11/20/07 8:17 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
IF CHRIST HAS NOT COME! 407
11/20/07 8:17 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Preterism, Society and the Modern Church; Tackling the Taboo’s 214
11/20/07 8:18 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Eschatology in American History 231
11/20/07 8:18 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
God's Israel Identity 144
11/20/07 8:18 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Eschatology Failed!!! 360
11/20/07 8:18 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
The Dating of the Book of Revelation 399
11/20/07 8:18 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Eschatology from a First Century Viewpoint 183
11/20/07 8:18 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Dating of the Book of Revelation - More Info! 471
11/20/07 8:19 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
CLOUD COMING OF JESUS RECORDED!!! 328
11/20/07 8:19 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Crying Voices of the Great Tribulation. 183
11/20/07 8:19 AM
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Who Was the Beast and What Was the Mark? 20
11/20/07 8:20 AM
You say Dave challenged ACC to debate Preterism.
However it seems to me that you were one of those
planning an offensive against Preterism! Are you
feeling overwhelmed by only 40 posts by Dave? I expect
we could find several hundred more easily. But then I
thought you said that Preterism is something that noone
really believes in, and that there is no support for
Preterism. Now you can't handle 40 posts. What sort
of offensive is this! You should have stayed home!
So this is your best response to content, is to spam us
with your lack of content! (Smirk) Please Glen,
psalmsmith, gunny freedom, you must have something
important to run off and do! Why do you waste our time?
Maybe you would prefer to check into some of your other
schemes which you have brought up and then run from
when it came time to really explain and support with
scripture. We can search the archives and find those
threads, if you would like to explain yourself now!
Where are your friends Chuck and Baba? Did they leave
you here all alone? After planning this masterful
offensive of presenting the wisdom of the Church
fathers. I would say you got left holding the bag!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residences!
Whosoever will, may come in!
Gatekeeper
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