| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
28 Dec 2007 06:10:16 PM |
| Object: |
Eschatology in American History |
Eschatology in American History
by Doug Reed
In this article we will take a look at how eschatological
beliefs have shaped the history of the United States
and what we can hope for in the future.
It is a well known fact that eschatological beliefs have
shaped politics in recent years. Dispensationalist thought
has help lead to the United States’ unconditional support
of Israel, and if you study the history of Zionism, you will
see that eschatological beliefs had a great deal to do with
the founding of the Jewish state. In many respects the
birth of Israel was a self-fulfilled prophesy. Those who
believed Israel would have to be reborn before Jesus
returned had no small part in the events of 1948.
Apparently, what we are seeing today is not new.
Eschatology has shaped America from the very beginning.
We know that many today think of the United States as
the great Babylon of the book of Revelation. However,
that was not always that case. In fact, at its inception
America was thought to play another character in the
book of Revelation. That’s right, the New Jerusalem.
Oh, how times have changed!
Christopher Columbus, who was an avid prophesy student,
wrote this near the end of his life:
“God made me the messenger of the new heaven and
the new earth of which he spoke in the Apocalypse of
St. John after having spoken of it through the mouth
of Isaiah; and he showed me the spot where to find it.”
If you study the history of prophetic beliefs you will see
that the times help shape people’s understanding of the
signs of the times. Many of the Puritans had strong
postmillennial beliefs. They felt that the new world
was ordained by God to help usher in Christ’s millennial
kingdom. This belief reached a fever pitch around the
time of the American Revolution. The first Great Awaking
began about 25 or 30 years before the Revolutionary war.
This amazing revival caused many preachers to proclaim
that American was God’s instrument to usher in His kingdom.
It was widely believed that Israel in prophesy was a type
of America, and that the throne of Christ’s coming kingdom
would be somewhere in the 13 colonies. I suppose the
regathering of Israel was the migration to the new world.
In the 18th century Jonathan Edwards said that America
would be the land where God would “begin a new world
in a spiritual respect, when he creates the new heavens
and the new earth.”.
John Adams in 1765 wrote the settling of America was
“the opening of a grand scheme and design in Providence
for the illumination of the ignorant and the emancipation
of the slavish part of mankind all over the earth.”.
Even the motto on the great seal of the United States
currency may have had eschatological influence. It reads
NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM with the years 1776 it in Roman
numerals. Translated this means “A new order of the ages”.
Contrary to paranoid Futurist beliefs, Charles Thompson
who chose this motto did not have secret “new age”
thought in mind, but he may have been influenced
by the popular belief of that day that the United States
would be used to usher in Christ’s millennial kingdom.
Later in the 1830’s the Frenchman Alexis de Tocqueville
observed that American religious and political values
were so intertwined as to be inseparable.
A early 19th century hymn expressed the common thought
of the day.
“The great reform is drawing near
Long looked for soon will come
The time will move both earth and sea
Just like glorious Jubilee.”
The colonists had their tribulation scenarios just as many
do today. King George took the role of the Antichrist.
The stamp act was the mark of the beast.
Someone calculated that the words “Royal Supremacy
in Great Britain” equaled 666 in the Greek and Hebrew.
Without a doubt eschatological belief played a role
in leading the colonies into war with Great Britain.
What was coming from the pulpits had a great influence
on the American mindset. This understanding could
even been seen in one of the Revolutionary War battle
cries, “No king but Jesus!”.
This belief reached an all time high with the victory over
England. It was widely believed that the United States
would go on to usher in the kingdom. The year most
believed to be the beginning of the millennial reign of
Christ was the year 2000!
Although premillennialism, the more negative brand
of millennialism, was muted in this time, it had its
proponents. Preterists say that the idea of the rapture did
not appear until the nineteenth century. However a fellow
named Cotton Mather may have been the first to speak of it.
Around the time of the Revolutionary War he wrote that the
earth would be consumed by fire, but the saints would be
caught up in the air before this happened.
When speaking of prophetic belief in America,
historian Paul Boyer wrote:
“…One approach will flourish and then wane, to be
replaced by another, or by an interval when prophetic
belief recedes. But then, under different circumstances,
the picture changes: apocalypticism again looms large;
long-dormant interpretive approaches take on new vitality.”
What is that old saying? Those who do not know history
are doomed to repeat it.
A good question to ask is what caused the eschatological
paradigm in the United States to change from postmillennial
to premillennial? Postmillennialism is optimistic and
activist. Postmillennialists had a great deal to do with
founding the United States. They were very optimistic
about the future and believed it would get better and
better. They were also social activists and were heavily
involved in issues like the abolition of slavery. The
premillennialists were and are very negative. They believe
things will get worse and worse. They are not totally
passive however. Their thought is that the world is
a sinking ship, and they work to save as many people
off of it as possible.
Our brother Waidmann wrote an interesting article a while
back saying that the fall of a paradigm begins with an
anomaly. That is something the system can’t explain.
Premillennialism began its rise to dominance in the late
1850’s or so. That date should give us a clue what the
first great anomaly against the postmillennial mindset
was. The Civil war. Brother turned against brother in
the bloodiest war ever fought on American soil.
The country was literally ripped in two!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did they think of Mat 10:21 ("the brother shall deliver
up the brother to death")? Once again, it seems that
they act as if the Bible was written just the day before
they happened to open one for the first time.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The second great anomaly was the industrialization
of America. This caused great social upheaval and
in many cases fear. Social upheaval invites end of
the world speculation in every instance.
However, anomalies alone may not be enough to change
a paradigm. There has to be a mindset available to replace
the ruling paradigm and someone to present it. Enter John
Darby! He started preaching in the United States in 1859.
What timing! Things were just about to get bad in a hurry!
Darby was a charismatic, tireless fellow with great power
of persuasion. He and folks who would come later such
as Moody and Scofield started a grassroots movement that
grew with incredible speed. Then came the Scofield Bible,
and the rest is history.
This makes me believe that the anomaly alone does not
change eschatological paradigms. The second great factor
is the pulpit. What is being said from the pulpit shapes
people’s perception of events. For example, was the Civil
War a step forward or back? The abolition of slavery made
this country a better place, yet for a premillennialist to
admit that anything could be getting better destroys
his paradigm!
The same goes for today. For Premillennialism to be
correct, the world has to be a worse place than it has ever
been. And in fact, most premillennialists probably believe
this. Yet, we could argue that the world is a better place
than it has ever been and using history beat them soundly
in a debate. So, the perception of events that came from
the pulpit might be as important as the events themselves
in this battle between pre and postmillennialism.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A knowledge and understanding of history is one of
the Premillennialists worse enemies and that is why
you see them get so upset, when someone calls up
history into the discussion.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, this begs the question what is it going to take to get
folks to throw out millennialism altogether, and instead of
looking at current events to shape their eschatology, look
at the clear fulfillment of prophesy in the first century?
Dispensationalism will eventually encounter anomalies
and collapse, but if we cannot change the focus, another
form of millennialism will replace it, and the cycle will
continue.
Food for thought:
Here are some interesting questions we can ask using
the historical data:
The postmillennial worldview was that the kingdom of God
was coming. How did that view effect the people of God
and their influence on society?
The dispensationalist view is that the kingdom cannot be
achieved or experienced in this dispensation. How would
this effect the people of God and their influence on
society?
The Preterist view is that the kingdom of God is here—
not coming as it was in the first century and not postponed.
What potential impact should this worldview have on
the people of God?
--
"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die
so that you may live as you wish." - Mother Teresa
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Eschatology in Scripture |
29 Dec 2007 05:04:14 AM |
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"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:t24bn3lcgr7e1rau61ulrthqnnp3p0kmod@4ax.com...
The Rapture: What is it? When is it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Early Church Father Tertullian (circa 160-225 AD):
"But we do confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth, although
before heaven, only in another state of existence; inasmuch as it will be
after the resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of
Jerusalem, 'let down from heaven,'"[Five Books Against Marcion, Book 3,
Chapter 25]
Early Church Father Justin Martyr (circa 100-165 AD):
"We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, 'The day of the Lord is
as a thousand years,' is connected with this subject. And further, there was
a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ,
who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who
believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that
thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment
of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, 'They
shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the
angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.'"[ THE SECOND APOLOGY
OF JUSTIN FOR THE CHRISTIANS ADDRESSED TO THE ROMAN SENATE, Chap 81]
Early Church Father Irenaeus (circa 130-202 AD):
"For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall
it be concluded. And for this reason the Scripture says: Thus the heaven and
the earth were finished, and all their adornment. And God brought to a
conclusion upon the sixth day the works that He had made; and God rested
upon the seventh day from all His works.' This is an account of the things
formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is to come. For the day
of the Lord is as a thousand years; and in six days created things were
completed: it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the
sixth thousand year. Irenaeus against Hersies, Book 5, Chap 28, sec 3
"But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he
will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at
Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the
glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake
of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that
is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the
promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that 'many coming
from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and
Jacob.'Irenaeus against Hersies, Book 5, Chap 30, sec 4
"The predicted blessing, therefore, belongs unquestionably to the times of
the kingdom, when the righteous shall bear rule upon their rising from the
dead." Irenaeus against Hersies, Book 5, Chap 33, sec 3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In scripture the rapture is described in 1Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive
and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the
Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. It is our being
caught up to meet the Lord. As He promised I go to prepare a place for you
and I will come again, and receive you unto myself (John 14:2-3).
The word rapture comes from the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible deinde
nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur ***** illis in nubibus obviam
Domino in aera et sic semper ***** Domino erimus. The we...shall be caught up
in English is rapiemur in Latin. Rapiemur is the future passive of the Latin
verb for to seize away [rapio, -ere, rapui, raptum], and the English word
rapture comes from the future participle of rapio [rapturus, -a, -um], just
as the English word capture comes from the Latin word capio.
Our Lord was referring to the rapture in Matt 24:30-31 when He said, And
then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all
the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in
the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his
angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. However, the
rapture is only part of this thorough gathering of all His elect. In
addition to the Christians who will be gathered into His rest (Heb 4:9), and
go to the place prepared (John 14:2-3), the heavenly city (Heb 11:16). The
enemy-of-the-gospel elect are also gathered: As concerning the gospel, they
are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved
for the fathers' sakes (Rom 11:28). They enter His wrath instead of His
rest: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest
(Ps 95:11). As we go to the place prepared for us, they are returned to
Israel: Ezek 37:12 Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause
you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel,
where they are saved after He has arrived And I will pour upon the house of
David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of
supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they
shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in
bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn (Zech
12:10) and For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their
sins (Rom 11:27). The gathering of his elect from the four winds, from one
end of heaven to the other is all of His elect.
In Matt 24:37 the Lord says, But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the
coming of the Son of man be, and in Gen 7:16-17 it is written And they that
went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and
the LORD shut him in. And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the
waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
The door was shut and the flood was on the earth. The door to His rest is
shut when the last gentile enters-in: For I would not, brethren, that ye
should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own
conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of
the Gentiles be come in" (Rom 11:25)], as in the days of Noah, His wrath
will rain down upon the earth. We are also told that the rapture follows the
revealing of the man on sin: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of
our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be
not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor
by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man
deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a
falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is
worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself
that he is God (2 Thess 2:1-4). These verses not only tell us that His
coming and our being gathered to Him will follow the revealing of the
antichrist, but also tell us how he will be revealed. He will sit in the
temple shewing himself to be God by sitting in God's place: the mercy seat
between the cherubim on the ark of the covenant.
The time of the rapture is at the time when the two witnesses ascend into
heaven in Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto
them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their
enemies beheld them. The two witnesses are part of all His elect which are
gathered from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (Matt
24:31). They are changed, putting on immortality and ascending into heaven,
at the same time, the same twinkling of an eye, that we all are changed at
the last trump in Rev 11 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all
sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on
incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality
(1Cor 15:51-53). The church enters His rest and the rest of mankind enters
His wrath.
The rest into which the church enters but His-enemy-of-the-gospel elect do
not enter is His day of rest Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in
David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear
his voice, harden not your hearts (Heb 4:7). It is the same day as the day
of the Lord But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in
the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements
shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein
shall be burned up (2Pet 3:10). It begins with His coming like a thief in
the night and ends at the end of His 1000 year reign when there is a new
heaven and a new earth And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first
heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea" (Rev
21:1) and His bride, the church, descends in the place He prepared for her
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of
heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband (Rev 21:2).
It is written in 2 Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing,
that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as
one day, and the day of His rest, the day of the Lord, is a 1000 year day,
which is the third day of the prophecy in Hosea 6:2 to Jews who will live in
His millennial reign After two days will he revive us: in the third day he
will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
What is revealed by the 1000 year days in scripture is a week of 1000 year
days with the last day of the week being the day of the Lord, the day of His
rest. The three days of Hosea 6:2, the three at the end of the week, are
what scripture calls the last days, and the first day is the day in which
Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died at the age of 930 But of the tree
of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day
that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die (Gen 2:17).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "Qadosh Stephanos" |
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| Title: Re: Eschatology in Scripture |
29 Dec 2007 09:34:41 AM |
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On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 05:04:14 -0600, "Fred A Stover"
<fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
The Rapture: What is it? When is it?
Early Church Father...
Why do you call them "Father"? Are there any "Late" Fathers?
Keep in mind that the word "Church" is an assembly of people.
Although, I would gather Paul's people think it's a building.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Eschatology in Scripture |
30 Dec 2007 02:19:55 AM |
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"Qadosh Stephanos" <qadosh.stephanos@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:mrpcn35v9hcl0roq74nro2omg79j4o2guh@4ax.com...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 05:04:14 -0600, "Fred A Stover"
<fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
The Rapture: What is it? When is it?
Early Church Father...
Why do you call them "Father"? Are there any "Late" Fathers?
Keep in mind that the word "Church" is an assembly of people.
Although, I would gather Paul's people think it's a building.
Your point is noted. I used fathers to distinguish them from early church
heretic.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Eschatology in Scripture |
29 Dec 2007 12:11:34 PM |
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On Dec 29, 10:34 am, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 05:04:14 -0600, "Fred A Stover"
<fredstov...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
The Rapture: What is it? When is it?
Early Church Father...
Why do you call them "Father"? Are there any "Late" Fathers?
Keep in mind that the word "Church" is an assembly of people.
Although, I would gather Paul's people think it's a building.
Interesting to watch these two do battle both wielding Paul's lies.
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Eschatology in Scripture |
30 Dec 2007 02:19:55 AM |
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"Linda Lee" <lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote in message
news:76750b36-bf17-4190-bfea-97451395f042@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 29, 10:34 am, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 05:04:14 -0600, "Fred A Stover"
<fredstov...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
The Rapture: What is it? When is it?
Early Church Father...
Why do you call them "Father"? Are there any "Late" Fathers?
Keep in mind that the word "Church" is an assembly of people.
Although, I would gather Paul's people think it's a building.
Interesting to watch these two do battle both wielding Paul's lies.
Paul isn't the liar, nor is the Lord who testified of him:
Acts 9:10-16
And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him
said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
[11] And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is
called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of
Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, [12] And hath seen in a vision a man named
Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his
sight. [13] Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man,
how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: [14] And here he hath
authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. [15] But
the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to
bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
[16] For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
His.
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: Eschatology in Scripture |
30 Dec 2007 05:39:57 AM |
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"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:LwIdj.27537$4V6.16669@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote in message
news:76750b36-bf17-4190-bfea-97451395f042@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 29, 10:34 am, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 05:04:14 -0600, "Fred A Stover"
<fredstov...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
The Rapture: What is it? When is it?
Early Church Father...
Why do you call them "Father"? Are there any "Late" Fathers?
Keep in mind that the word "Church" is an assembly of people.
Although, I would gather Paul's people think it's a building.
Interesting to watch these two do battle both wielding Paul's lies.
Paul isn't the liar, nor is the Lord who testified of him:
Acts 9:10-16
And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him
said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
[11] And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is
called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of
Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, [12] And hath seen in a vision a man
named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might
receive his sight. [13] Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many
of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: [14]
And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on
thy name. [15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen
vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the
children of Israel: [16] For I will shew him how great things he must
suffer for my name's sake.
His.
The Bibles are nothing more than an unauthentic collection of ancient myths
and fables.
Religion is things hoped for but not yet seen or proven. Science is things
seen and proven but not necessarily hoped for.
The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
that man created numerous imaginary gods! Christians do not accept that man
evolved over
millions of years from other life forms but have no problem with man being
created form dirt
Gods, Devils, Saints, Angels, Spirits, Heavens, Hells, Sin, Goblins, Ghosts,
Wizards, and Witches etc. all are nothing more than the figments of people's
imaginations.
There are thousands of Gods and religions but NO objective verifiable
demonstrable
evidence that any Gods exist and are real.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Eschatology in Scripture |
31 Dec 2007 11:40:41 PM |
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"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:URPdj.20851$L27.12579@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:LwIdj.27537$4V6.16669@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote in message
news:76750b36-bf17-4190-bfea-97451395f042@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 29, 10:34 am, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 05:04:14 -0600, "Fred A Stover"
<fredstov...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
The Rapture: What is it? When is it?
Early Church Father...
Why do you call them "Father"? Are there any "Late" Fathers?
Keep in mind that the word "Church" is an assembly of people.
Although, I would gather Paul's people think it's a building.
Interesting to watch these two do battle both wielding Paul's lies.
Paul isn't the liar, nor is the Lord who testified of him:
Acts 9:10-16
And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to
him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here,
Lord. [11] And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street
which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one
called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, [12] And hath seen in a
vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that
he might receive his sight. [13] Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have
heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at
Jerusalem: [14] And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind
all that call on thy name. [15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way:
for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles,
and kings, and the children of Israel: [16] For I will shew him how great
things he must suffer for my name's sake.
His.
The Bibles are nothing more than an unauthentic collection of ancient
myths and fables.
And isn't it amazing how all these so-called ancient myths foretold the
future and are still revealing the unknown to us?
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
Religion is things hoped for but not yet seen or proven. Science is things
seen and proven but not necessarily hoped for.
The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
that man created numerous imaginary gods! Christians do not accept that
man evolved over
millions of years from other life forms but have no problem with man being
created form dirt
Gods, Devils, Saints, Angels, Spirits, Heavens, Hells, Sin, Goblins,
Ghosts, Wizards, and Witches etc. all are nothing more than the figments
of people's imaginations.
There are thousands of Gods and religions but NO objective verifiable
demonstrable
evidence that any Gods exist and are real.
.
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Eschatology in Scripture |
11 Jan 2008 04:44:20 PM |
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On Dec 30 2007, 3:19 am, "Fred A Stover" <fredstov...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
"LindaLee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:76750b36-bf17-4190-bfea-97451395f042@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 29, 10:34 am, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 05:04:14 -0600, "Fred A Stover"
<fredstov...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
The Rapture: What is it? When is it?
Early Church Father...
Why do you call them "Father"? Are there any "Late" Fathers?
Keep in mind that the word "Church" is an assembly of people.
Although, I would gather Paul's people think it's a building.
Interesting to watch these two do battle both wielding Paul's lies.
Paul isn't the liar, nor is the Lord who testified of him:
Acts 9:10-16
And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him
said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
[11] And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is
called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of
Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, [12] And hath seen in a vision a man named
Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his
sight. [13] Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man,
how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: [14] And here he hath
authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. [15] But
the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to
bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
[16] For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
His.
--http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
Fred,
What you are quoting is Paul's lies to Luke, not the LORD's words. I
never said Yeshua` was a liar; he is not -- Paul is the liar.
.
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