In article <4718c279$0$21088$da0fe...@news.zen.co.uk> "Lee" <me@localhost> writes:

"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192801637.910420.49020@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he
that believeth not shall be damned. (KJV)

Note 1: Jesus says that the one that believes and is baptized WILL be
saved. It is a promise. Thus, if anyone were to believe and be
baptized and go to hell, God would be a liar. God cannot lie.

Well there goes his omnipotent status then. God has his limits.

That's pretty much implicit, but rarely consciously realized:
believers have a list of "God cannot"s, all of which
point to there being some exteranal moral code which
even God is required to follow.

-- cary

Reply to article by: Anti-Venom <writingken@yahoo.com>
Date written: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 01:51:06 -0000
MsgID:<1192931466.821876.325370@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
On Oct 20, 1:22 am, The_Sage <The_S...@everywhere.com> wrote:

Reply to article by: Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com>
Date written: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:47:17 -0000
MsgID:<1192801637.910420.49...@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he
that believeth not shall be damned. (KJV)
Note 1: Jesus says that the one that believes and is baptized WILL be
saved. It is a promise. Thus, if anyone were to believe and be
baptized and go to hell, God would be a liar. God cannot lie. Thus,
no one that believes and is baptized can go to hell.

But God can contradict Himself and thereby negate His promises,

"You see that A MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE."
(James 2:24)

What was the verse directly before this one? See, this verse starts
with "you see" indicating it completed the verse prior. What was the
WORK that Abraham did that saved him? I'll wait to see if you have
integrity before I post it here. Otherwise, you are just cliping and
snipping Scripture to fit your own ends.

"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:pEbSi.1856$b9.313@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

Christians totally base their faith on the Bibles.



The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, contradictions,
human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny,
destruction, barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate
history and certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane
and totally untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction.



The average person today does not appreciate the difficulty and
unlikelihood

of producing accurate transmissions of the original Bibles. Firstly there
are NO ORIGINALS in existence. They are all copies of copies of unknown
accuracy.



One of the problems with the accuracy of the Bibles is that when they were
copied, no marks of punctuation were used, no distinction was made between
lower case and upper case letters and more bizarre to modern script, no
spaces were used to separate words.



This kind of continuous writing was called "scriptuo continua"

'godisnowhere' could mean 'god is now here' or quit the opposite, 'god is
no where' depending on the spacing which not used at the time. This left
accurate interpretation very unlikely if not impossible.



Add to this the natural occurrence of errors of transmission and the
intentional modification to suite the transcribers wishes and beliefs and
you have documents of highly questionable meaning and very poor accuracy.



Further compounding the problem was the size and accuracy of the
vocabularies were much more limited than today. And they were written
before the modern dictionaries so there was much conflict between the
meaning of words.



The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What are
available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of questionable
veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000 years before the
invention of the printing press. Even the so called originals were
supposedly written by 50 or more different authors of unknown veracity.
They are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the
clergy. And the status and survival of the clergy is totally dependent on
their follower's belief in their Bible stories. There are 18 different
English versions alone and there is no way of knowing how far they have
wondered from the originals.



And there is no evidence that even the originals are anything more than
inaccurate fiction.



Basing ones life and faith on these documents is not very sound reasoning.
It is the equivalent of depending on the good luck of a rabbits foot.

Also the gospels and other writings that were left out confuse the issue
even further. Often being contradictory to the ones that were included.

On 2007-10-19 20:06:42 +0100, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> said:

Christians totally base their faith on the Bibles.

No. We don't. We base our faith on our relationship with God in Jesus
Christ. Why do you keep getting this wrong?

The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, contradictions,
human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny,
destruction,
barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and
certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and totally
untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction.

You keep saying this and you're still wrong. The writings in the Bible are
NOT God's words. We KNOW they're NOT God's words. The Bible says they are
NOT God's words - even to the point of claiming which human being's words
they are. Have you actually read the Bible? Have you actually read any
commentaries on the Bible?

The average person today does not appreciate the difficulty and
unlikelihood

of producing accurate transmissions of the original Bibles. Firstly there
are NO ORIGINALS in existence. They are all copies of copies of unknown
accuracy.



One of the problems with the accuracy of the Bibles is that when they
were
copied, no marks of punctuation were used, no distinction was made
between
lower case and upper case letters and more bizarre to modern script, no
spaces were used to separate words.



This kind of continuous writing was called "scriptuo continua"

'godisnowhere' could mean 'god is now here' or quit the opposite, 'god is
no
where' depending on the spacing which not used at the time. This left
accurate interpretation very unlikely if not impossible.

This is still piffle however often you say it. What this would mean, if it
were true, is that the early Christians who wrote koine Greek in the way
you describe would be quite incapable of reading their on language.
Communication between people by writing would have been impossible. Try
thinking instead of regurgitating - would that actually make sense?

Add to this the natural occurrence of errors of transmission and the
intentional modification to suite the transcribers wishes and beliefs and
you have documents of highly questionable meaning and very poor accuracy.

This would be a problem if there were only one strand of document
tradition; but as we have a variety of codices to compare we can get over
many of the problems you describe. Again, if you actually took some time
to read a proper academic commentary you would know that.

Further compounding the problem was the size and accuracy of the
vocabularies were much more limited than today. And they were written
before
the modern dictionaries so there was much conflict between the meaning of
words.

Your grasp of linguistics is really poor. There is absolutely no
connection between the size of a a language's vocabulary and its ability
to convey meaning - partiularly in a language like Greek where new words
can be constructed by compounding. And are you really saying that people
were incapable of communicating ideas accurately in English before
Boswell?

The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What are
available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of questionable
veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000 years before
the
invention of the printing press. Even the so called originals were
supposedly written by 50 or more different authors of unknown veracity.
They
are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the clergy.
And
the status and survival of the clergy is totally dependent on their
follower's
belief in their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions
alone
and there is no way of knowing how far they have wondered from the
originals.

None of which demonstrates that the Bible, as we have it, is untrue.

And there is no evidence that even the originals are anything more than
inaccurate fiction.



Basing ones life and faith on these documents is not very sound
reasoning.
It is the equivalent of depending on the good luck of a rabbits foot.

Again, we don't. Try to understand that before you copy and paste selected
parts of your extensive oeuvre again.

"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192801637.910420.49020@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he
that believeth not shall be damned. (KJV)

Note 1: Jesus says that the one that believes and is baptized WILL be
saved. It is a promise. Thus, if anyone were to believe and be
baptized and go to hell, God would be a liar. God cannot lie. Thus,
no one that believes and is baptized can go to hell.

Note 2: Furthering this, the one that was damned above is a non-
believer.

Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhe