| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"IKnowHimDoYou" |
| Date: |
08 Jan 2004 11:53:10 AM |
| Object: |
Evilution's Unanswerable Problems |
Evilution's Unanswerable Problems
Evilution is faced with a great number of unanswerable problems. Problems
so gigantic that it boggles the human mind. Just to list a few of these
origin problems:
Human speech & communication
Hearing at different frequencies
Human brain & nervous system
Human circulation & respiratory systems
Reproduction(male & female or even simple)
Immune systems
Diseases
Mutations that are almost always harmful
Human eyes(in fact all eyes that must be complete to work)
Bird flight & structure(lungs, bones, feathers)
Insect flight
Cold & warm blooded creatures
Instinct(mating, nesting, migration)
Cambrian life explosion of complete creatures
Worldwide flood geology evidence
Arctic/Anarctic ice miles deep of fresh water(no salt)
Ocean salt/river salt depostion
Earth mangnetic flux rundown
Comets & meteors
Earth atmosphere that supports life
Mega molecules that support life
Life itself-in all forms
Complete absence of evidence of life transitions
Death of life*
All of these, and many more, should cause even the most rabid evilutionary
religionists to stop and consider what kind of a false religion they
worship.
On the other hand, God's Word answers all these questions, sometimes even
down to the smallest detail.
So, who does one believe: Fallible men or an infallible Creator?
*You too are going to die for we have no choice:
If you are born once you will die twice.
If you are born twice you will die only once. John 3:3
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| User: "ReVeRend whateva" |
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| Title: Re: Evilution's Unanswerable Problems |
08 Jan 2004 12:57:37 PM |
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"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-0801040953100001@pm6-37.kalama.com...
Evilution is faced with a great number of unanswerable problems. Problems
Troll?
<entering aggressive mode>
Oh dear if there's something I hope is that my kids will stay clear of drugs
and religions and try to think for themselves or at least get a decent
education so they won't ever be satisfied with a simple idiotism that
whatever they can't decipher, must be done by a divinity, thor, zeus, god or
shiva or allah or whatever they happen to run into in the neighborhood.
It doesn't matter if people disagree with a believer - almost all others
must be wrong, they just don't know - nevermind that all really
intelligent&educated people disagree even more...but oh wait....I can't 100%
understand or give definate answers to how can a computer chip process data
the way it does, so...lemme think...it must be some DIVINE ENTITY! YEAH! I
guess I'm a believer!!!
<exit aggressive mode><apologies>
Actually I do think it's great that people believe. Religion has a power to
spread good will and education too. I used to be a part of it, going to
church trips and christian camps as a kid, etc. and it is great. Great
juvenile work etc. Even worked for church before I went studying.
I never did believe in god as is, though, or bible, no matter what they told
me. I'd already read dozens of more intelligent books while still in
Kindergarten. Even 'Lord of the Rings' seemed more plausible to me even then
:-) I did read the bible too, for the first time around 10 I think. A great
book it is, many good ideals.
In my teenage years I once also discussed this nonbelief of mine, person-to
person, with a quite high-ranking priest that visited us one time.
He asked me if I believed that there is a higher power. I replied that _if_
there is, it's what people make of themselves and others.
He said: 'There you go. It doesn't matter if you don't believe in images and
words - those are meant for those who need something actual to focus their
beliefs at - it's enough if you know in your heart that there is a goodness
in humankind, and you live by that and do good yourself.'
Well said.
So go on, believe what you wish. Maybe you're even right. I don't think so,
but I'm only human. It's everybody's right to believe what they choose. But
what you should not do is fight against people, fight against their belief,
or fight against evolutionists. They are doing good work too, finding out
how everything works and creating cures for diseases etc. Without such
people we'd still be in Dark Ages when religions reigned and burned people
alive as witches causing diseases etc. - because they didn't understand the
workings of bacteria. So peace, man.
--
Drink from your belief, don't drown others in it
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| User: "Rob Naylor" |
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| Title: Re: Evilution's Unanswerable Problems |
08 Jan 2004 05:58:10 PM |
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"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-0801040953100001@pm6-37.kalama.com...
Why do you just keep posting reams of stuff cut and pasted from already
discredited lists of arguments, and then refuse to enter into any kind of
debate when people refute them. It's obvious that people are getting really
sick of this. You give the impression of not even reading any of the
threads you start.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: Evilution's Unanswerable Problems |
08 Jan 2004 12:17:59 PM |
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(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote in
news:IKnowHim-0801040953100001@pm6-37.kalama.com:
Evilution's Unanswerable Problems
Evilution is faced with a great number of unanswerable problems.
Problems so gigantic that it boggles the human mind. Just to list a
few of these origin problems:
[phony problem list deleted]
Oooops! They were all phony!
Did you have anything TRUE to say about evolution? The most unanswerable
problem I can see (and it's really not that difficult when you consider the
evidence) is why do humans persist in inventing irrational, illogical trash
to support superstitious beliefs? You would think that such a trait would
have been selected out of the human race, but (and I leave this for you to
study and perhaps learn from), it is NOT selected out.
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
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| User: "rogue" |
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| Title: Re: Evilution's Unanswerable Problems |
09 Jan 2004 12:15:07 PM |
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(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote in message news:<IKnowHim-0801040953100001@pm6-37.kalama.com>...
YM1 (AKA IKnowNothingButLikeToActLikeIDo) ranted:
Evilution is faced with a great number of unanswerable problems. Problems
so gigantic that it boggles the human mind. Just to list a few of these
origin problems:
<snipped the list of things that IDontKnowShit posted>
YM, you silly twit, this is just more of your famous logical fallacy
of "Argument from Personal Incredulity" or in your case, Argument from
Personal Ignorance. You assume because you don't see how these things
could have come about, that they couldn't
But then again, I've noticed that you can't count either. What is 12
- 9?
YM1
All of these, and many more, should cause even the most rabid evilutionary
religionists to stop and consider what kind of a false religion they
worship.
JERRY
It does. It causes us to wonder where in the world you got such a
very poor education and how people as stupid and arrogant as you
manage to find work.
YM1
On the other hand, God's Word answers all these questions, sometimes even
down to the smallest detail.
JERRY
Yes, it calls bats birds and believes that hares chew their cud.
Very, very good scientific information. It also leads you to believe
in a flat earth with pillars
YM1
So, who does one believe: Fallible men or an infallible Creator?
JERRY
Oh my, such a tough decision:
I can believe in science, which gave me my computer, my car, my
technology or I can believe in a bible that I have already
demonstrated to be false historically, to have unfulfilled prophecies
and to be contradictory.
I guess I will have to choose science, YM. Thanks for helping me make
that very difficult choice!
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| User: "Thore Schmechtig" |
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| Title: Re: Evilution's Unanswerable Problems |
08 Jan 2004 01:41:17 PM |
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Evilution is faced with a great number of unanswerable problems.
Maybe so. Ev-O-lution, of course, is another topic. Here is a complete
list of (as of yet) unanswerable problems who contradict evolutionary
theory as a whole:
(BEGIN list)
(END list)
Now, to talk about truth for a change, tell us how much you think is 12
- 9.
UNWRITTEN RULES OF FUNDAMENTALISM
1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical,
psychological,
or verbal, at all times as defensive
5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
into a corner in an argument
6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
error and correction as part of God's personal plan for you and not as a
something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
verbally and secretly to God himself
8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of God's plans
for
the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of Gods will
for
the betterment of mankind.
9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
oppose all such information through classification of such information
in
a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as left wing
propaganda)
11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
complex and there are shades of grey
12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to
forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you
don't
have that right anyhow.
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| User: "The_Sage" |
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| Title: Christian's Unanswerable Problems |
09 Jan 2004 10:48:25 PM |
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Reply to article by: (IKnowHimDoYou)
Date written: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 09:53:10 -0800
MsgID:<IKnowHim-0801040953100001@pm6-37.kalama.com>
Evilution's Unanswerable Problems
Evilution is faced with a great number of unanswerable problems. Problems
so gigantic that it boggles the human mind. Just to list a few of these
origin problems:
Human speech & communication
Hearing at different frequencies
Human brain & nervous system
Human circulation & respiratory systems
Reproduction(male & female or even simple)
Immune systems
Diseases
Mutations that are almost always harmful
Human eyes(in fact all eyes that must be complete to work)
Bird flight & structure(lungs, bones, feathers)
Insect flight
Cold & warm blooded creatures
Instinct(mating, nesting, migration)
Cambrian life explosion of complete creatures
Worldwide flood geology evidence
Arctic/Anarctic ice miles deep of fresh water(no salt)
Ocean salt/river salt depostion
Earth mangnetic flux rundown
Comets & meteors
Earth atmosphere that supports life
Mega molecules that support life
Life itself-in all forms
Complete absence of evidence of life transitions
Death of life*
Those are all challenges, not "problems", and just because they haven't been
answered yet does not prove they cannot be answered someday. You see, science
doesn't falsely claim to have all the answers like your religion pretends it
does and science doesn't falsely pretend to save the world like your religion
has repeatedly failed to do. Science can take (and is taking) the place of
religion but religion cannot take the place of science. Without science we would
all still be living in caves and believing that the earth has four corners.
By the way, what is Christianity's answer to all those problems? Let me tell
you...
Human speech & communication.................God felt like making it that way
Hearing at different frequencies.............God felt like making it that way
Human brain & nervous system.................God felt like making it that way
Human circulation & respiratory systems......God felt like making it that way
..
..
..
Absence of evidence of life transitions......God felt like making it that way
Death of life................................God felt like making it that way
Are you beginning to see a pattern here?
Whereas science has provided us with running water, electricity, air
conditioning, automobiles, airplanes, and light...in short, created an entirely
new civilation, what have Christians done for the world? Try the Crusades, the
Inquisitions, the 100 Year War, numerous witch hunts, an epidemic of child
molestors, hypocrites, greedy con men, and persecution of scientists in their
pursuit of the previously mentioned benefits.
But just to be fair, would you like to see some unanswerable questions that even
the most Spirit-filled Christian cannot answer? No problem, here you go...
Why don't we see Christian morality being rewarded in other species of animals?
Where did God get His knowledge of evil when he created the tree of knowledge of
good and evil -- from His heart or from His head?
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq%2Dspeciation.html
Why did God create men with rudimentary nipples?
Since Mother Mary didn't marry her first Son's Father, does that make her an
adulteress?
Does Mother Mary have legal rights to her Son's Father's property?
If it is the body that sins, why must our souls be saved and not our bodies?
If it is the soul that sins, why must our bodies suffer?
If the real YOU is a spirit or soul, then why would God mislead YOU by saying
from dust YOU were made and to dust YOU will return?
Why do the vast majority of Christians ignore Christ's command to never divorce?
Where do the souls of aborted fetuses go and why?
Why was Jesus willing to save Capurneum but not Sodom?
If Jesus didn't command his followers to love one another, would they have loved
one another anyway?
Where on Earth did God find dust with the same composition as a human, when He
created Adam from dust? What about the missing 75% water?
Why do Christians laugh at polytheists, but have no problem believing in a
Triune God?
Why do Christian's faces turn purple when they hear of the "atrocities"
attributed to Allah, but they don't even flinch when hearing about how
God slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in Exodus?
Why are Christians willing to spend their life looking for little loopholes in
the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but
they find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age
tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few
generations old.
Why do Christians believe that the entire population of this planet -- with the
exception of those who share their beliefs -- will spend Eternity in Hell,
yet consider their religion "tolerant" and "loving"?
On the other hand, God's Word answers all these questions, sometimes even
down to the smallest detail.
I called your bluff and you lost! All of the above questions, and many more,
should cause even the most rabid Christian to stop and consider what kind of a
false religion they worship. So, who does one believe: reality as it actually is
observed to be or a fallible make believe Creator fantasy?
"'Who takes longer to reach perfection, the man who loves God, or the man who
hates him?' And the answer is: 'He who loves God takes seven reincarnations to
reach perfection, and he who hates God takes only three, for he who hates God
will think of him more than he who loves him'" (Carl Jung, Vol 9i, para 76)
The Sage
=============================================================
My Home Page : http://members.cox.net/the.sage
"Little minds are interested in the extraordinary; great
minds in the commonplace"
-- Elbert Hubbard, ROYCROFT DICTIONARY AND BOOK OF EPIGRAMS
=============================================================
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christian's Unanswerable Problems |
10 Jan 2004 12:00:47 AM |
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All they happen to be observing is the Big Bang that we live within, but
they fail to realize that the Big Bang in turn exists within thee entire
universe. The Big Bang we live in is not the entire universe, it is only a
part of the entire universe. Therefore, for the purposes of this article,
when I refer to this misconception of the universe being only what we can
see, I will place it in quotes "universe". Otherwise, when I refer to the
universe and it isn't in quotes, you will know that I mean everything that
exists; inside and outside the Big Bang, whether seen or unseen or whether
known or unknown as of yet.
So by your own words,
"whether seen or unseen or whether known or unknown as of yet.",
you assume to know all things.
Walk "your" road to the end .
Come on, Finish your walk.
Where did a universe of Mass and Energy come from in the first place?
With the perfect conditions you and I need. gravity, water that expands when
it freezes, salt, carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, fusion, Fission, magnetism,
bunch of elements that work together perfectly to form molecules just like
we need to exist. the list is endless.
name one thing or Process you could take out that we dont need to survive.
Even Before that, Where did the "Place" for the Universe to exist come from
in the first place?
An "Empty Place" for the Universe to exist in AT ALL, is the Most Difficult
thing of all to Produce "BY CHANCE"!!!.
For your own Good, Think More, Think to the END of your road.
Try reading this book, you only have time.
The Hidden Face of God: Science Reveals the Ultimate Truth
by Gerald L. Schroeder (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743203259/qid=1073714198/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-8956745-7022328?v=glance&s=books
Reviewer: Keith Parker (see more about me) from Huntsville, Alabama, USA
As a physicist, I have been seduced by the awe and mystery (to borrow from
"The Outer Limits") of quantum mechanics for years. Still, the esoteric
nature of subatomic physics was never adequate to convince me of an
intelligent design of the universe. Schroeder, however, has succeeded in
convincing me of an underlying wisdom in nature through his eloquent
description of the mind-boggling complexity of molecular biology. I came
away from this book with a perplexing and contradictory sense of calm and
breathlessness.
Schroeder succeeds where others have failed; namely, he has convinced me
that an honest and compelling argument can be made for the existence of
God/Creator/universal intelligence without resorting to fundamentalist dogma
or pseudo-science.
Be warned: parts of the book are tedious; Schroeder admits this. If you are
unwilling to put some thought behind the subject matter, then this book
isn't for you. But if you're not afraid to think, then by all means read his
book; your soul will thank you. --This text refers to the Hardcover edition
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| User: "Joe Blow" |
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| Title: Re: Christian's Unanswerable Problems |
10 Jan 2004 06:53:36 PM |
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<YooHoo@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<jyMLb.60553$Vs3.41551@twister.socal.rr.com>...
<snip>
So by your own words,
"whether seen or unseen or whether known or unknown as of yet.",
you assume to know all things.
That is not a logical inference.
<snip>
With the perfect conditions you and I need. gravity, water that expands when
it freezes, salt, carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, fusion, Fission, magnetism,
bunch of elements that work together perfectly to form molecules just like
we need to exist. the list is endless.
name one thing or Process you could take out that we dont need to survive.
In this solar system we had good enough conditions in at least 1 of 9
planets.
Even Before that, Where did the "Place" for the Universe to exist come from
in the first place?
An "Empty Place" for the Universe to exist in AT ALL, is the Most Difficult
thing of all to Produce "BY CHANCE"!!!.
I don't know of any data to address this question.
For your own Good, Think More, Think to the END of your road.
<snip>
I don't think you are on the right road if you make it your business to
deny God's creation and its natural processes.
Joe
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Christian's Unanswerable Problems |
10 Jan 2004 10:36:40 PM |
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On 10 Jan 2004 16:53:36 -0800, in alt.talk.creationism
joeblow@volcanomail.com (Joe Blow) wrote in
<31dd8bee.0401101653.51d371eb@posting.google.com>:
<YooHoo@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<jyMLb.60553$Vs3.41551@twister.socal.rr.com>...
<snip>
So by your own words,
"whether seen or unseen or whether known or unknown as of yet.",
you assume to know all things.
That is not a logical inference.
<snip>
With the perfect conditions you and I need. gravity, water that expands when
it freezes, salt, carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, fusion, Fission, magnetism,
bunch of elements that work together perfectly to form molecules just like
we need to exist. the list is endless.
name one thing or Process you could take out that we dont need to survive.
In this solar system we had good enough conditions in at least 1 of 9
planets.
Even Before that, Where did the "Place" for the Universe to exist come from
in the first place?
An "Empty Place" for the Universe to exist in AT ALL, is the Most Difficult
thing of all to Produce "BY CHANCE"!!!.
I don't know of any data to address this question.
For your own Good, Think More, Think to the END of your road.
<snip>
I don't think you are on the right road if you make it your business to
deny God's creation and its natural processes.
There is a difference between denying that the doctrines you teach are
correct and denying God's creation, unless you are claiming that you are
God.
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| User: "Elmer Bataitis" |
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| Title: Re: Christian's Unanswerable Problems |
10 Jan 2004 08:44:52 AM |
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wrote:
With the perfect conditions you and I need. gravity, water that expands when
it freezes, salt, carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, fusion, Fission, magnetism,
bunch of elements that work together perfectly to form molecules just like
we need to exist. the list is endless.
What about the puddle that exclaims "Look how perfectly the hole I'm in
fits me."
***************************************************************
Elmer Bataitis “Hot dog! Smooch city here I come!”
Planetech Services -Hobbes
585-442-2884
"...proudly wearing and displaying, as a badge of honor, the
straight jacket of conventional thought."
***************************************************************
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christian's Unanswerable Problems |
10 Jan 2004 10:53:34 AM |
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"Elmer Bataitis" <nylicens@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:40000FFA.A087A876@frontiernet.net...
YooHoo@hotmail.com wrote:
With the perfect conditions you and I need. gravity, water that expands
when
it freezes, salt, carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, fusion, Fission, magnetism,
bunch of elements that work together perfectly to form molecules just
like
we need to exist. the list is endless.
What about the puddle that exclaims "Look how perfectly the hole I'm in
fits me."
January 10, 2004, another Puddle, Elmer Bataitis, becomes Self-Aware.
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| User: "Elmer Bataitis" |
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| Title: Re: Christian's Unanswerable Problems |
10 Jan 2004 11:09:08 AM |
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wrote:
"Elmer Bataitis" <nylicens@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
wrote:
With the perfect conditions you and I need. gravity, water that expands when
it freezes, salt, carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, fusion, Fission, magnetism,
bunch of elements that work together perfectly to form molecules just like
we need to exist. the list is endless.
What about the puddle that exclaims "Look how perfectly the hole I'm in
fits me."
January 10, 2004, another Puddle, Elmer Bataitis, becomes Self-Aware.
Would that this would happen to others. ;-)
***************************************************************
Elmer Bataitis “Hot dog! Smooch city here I come!”
Planetech Services -Hobbes
585-442-2884
"...proudly wearing and displaying, as a badge of honor, the
straight jacket of conventional thought."
***************************************************************
.
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| User: "The_Sage" |
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| Title: Re: Christian's Unanswerable Problems |
10 Jan 2004 11:02:13 PM |
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Reply to article by: <YooHoo@hotmail.com>
Date written: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:00:47 GMT
MsgID:<jyMLb.60553$Vs3.41551@twister.socal.rr.com>
All they happen to be observing is the Big Bang that we live within, but
they fail to realize that the Big Bang in turn exists within thee entire
universe. The Big Bang we live in is not the entire universe, it is only a
part of the entire universe. Therefore, for the purposes of this article,
when I refer to this misconception of the universe being only what we can
see, I will place it in quotes "universe". Otherwise, when I refer to the
universe and it isn't in quotes, you will know that I mean everything that
exists; inside and outside the Big Bang, whether seen or unseen or whether
known or unknown as of yet.
So by your own words,
"whether seen or unseen or whether known or unknown as of yet.",
you assume to know all things.
You have a reading comprehension problem since the paragraph above implies the
opposite of what you claim, ie -- the universe is so big it is infinite; we can
never know everything in it because by the definition of infinite, it can have
no beginning or end and we will never see all there is too see in it.
Maybe if you had read the entire where you got that paragraph, you wouldn't have
made that mistake since I am arguing against the belief of a literal Big Bang
and against the backwards thinking that the only universe there is, is only the
one we can see. That is the same thinking people had before they figured out the
world is round and there are parts of the world you can't see just by standing
on a seashore and looking out to sea.
Walk "your" road to the end .
Come on, Finish your walk.
Where did a universe of Mass and Energy come from in the first place?
Since Einstein help prove that energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed,
they have always existed.
With the perfect conditions you and I need. gravity, water that expands when
it freezes, salt, carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, fusion, Fission, magnetism,
bunch of elements that work together perfectly to form molecules just like
we need to exist. the list is endless.
name one thing or Process you could take out that we dont need to survive.
Since we evolved to depend on them, we could evolve to do without them. The only
reason the conditions appear "perfect" is not because the conditions are
perfect, but because the adaptation to the conditions is perfect.
Even Before that, Where did the "Place" for the Universe to exist come from
in the first place?
An "Empty Place" for the Universe to exist in AT ALL, is the Most Difficult
thing of all to Produce "BY CHANCE"!!!.
The "Place" and the Universe are one and the same: both are infinite, and both
have no beginning or ending.
For your own Good, Think More, Think to the END of your road.
I already have, now it is your turn.
Try reading this book, you only have time.
The Hidden Face of God: Science Reveals the Ultimate Truth
by Gerald L. Schroeder (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743203259/qid=1073714198/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-8956745-7022328?v=glance&s=books
Someone else read it for me...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/076790303X/customer-reviews/026-0583578-9538830
Schroeder has a very unique approach to many things and relies on ancient
mysticism (kabalah)to explain difficult biblical topics. However, there are some
gigantic holes in his presentations. One: he discounts God's warning that on the
day Adam eats of the tree of knowledge he will die. Since Adam lived to be 930
years old and did not die the instant he bit the "apple" God must have made a
mistake in the text and Schroeder feels this to be an intentional contradiction
designed to make us look deeper into the text. Posh! Schroeder should understand
that this was the fall of mankind that God referred to, not Adams physical
death. Another good example of his biblical expertice is on page 15 when he
claimed that Abraham laughed when God told him that Sarah (should be Sari) would
have a child. Sari was the one who laughed, not Abraham. Further, according to
my study, Jesus was the creator not God the Father (John 1:1). So when Schroeder
keeps complaining that God kept saying "It is good" and follows this with why
didn't God know it was good all along. Well, God also said at Jesus' baptism,
"This is my son in whom I am well pleased," --- didn't God know all along that
Jesus was good. This seemed to be Schroeders basis for evolution, that is,
evolution is ok since God did it, and then God found out later it was "good".
Another hole: Schroeder very expertly creates the background for his 6 days of
creation using Einstein's theory and procedes to actually designate the exact
length of each of the six days of creation. Later he insists that evolution is
correct and relies on random acts of nature to produce life. How can you present
truely random acts within days which have very set and specific limits of time?
The assignment of time limits to each day destroys the concept of random acts
for creation. Schroeder also fails to realize that the first four days are not
24 hour days regardless if the earth is approaching the speed of light or not.
The purpose of the first light "let there be light" was to "separate the light
from the dark" only as clearly stated in Genesis. The mechanism for measuring
the days, nights, seasons, and years did not happen until creation day four,
when God set the sun and moon its its place. The biggest bobo is when Schroeder
claims that other people lived around Eden and God selected one of the males to
be Adam and breathed a soul into him. Then came Eve, but where did she come
from? Obviously there was none good enough in the nieghborhood to be upgraded,
so Schroeder would have to rely on what the Bible says -- that God tood a rib
from Adam and created Eve. So we are to believe that Adam was an upgrade and Eve
was created as a result of an immaculate creation??? Why would Adam have taken
millions of mutations and millions of years to create when God created Eve
momentairly from a rib??? A truely appalling concept occurs on page 141 wherein
Schroeder claims that Adam and Eve separated and Adam had sex for 130 years with
the local gals in the neighborhood (those without souls). After 130 years,
Schroeder claims that since Adam again knew his wife, he had sex with her again
and produced Seth. Bunk. This is pure fantasy. There are many more examples of
"accomodation" in this book and it is my opinion that a person beginning his/her
Christian walk should not be swayed by the deceptions within it. Although
expertly written, the Bible warns us not to "run ahead" of scripture and
Schroeder seems to be on a fast paced marathon well ahead of the Bible. As
Phillip E. Johnson, author of Defeating Darwinism, stated, "Scientific theories
rely on elaborate reasoning and rest on assumptions that are difficult or
impossible to prove." Schroeder does just this and, in some areas, relys upon
mysticism to clarify and support his ideas.
The Sage
=============================================================
My Home Page : http://members.cox.net/the.sage
"Little minds are interested in the extraordinary; great
minds in the commonplace"
-- Elbert Hubbard, ROYCROFT DICTIONARY AND BOOK OF EPIGRAMS
=============================================================
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| User: "DeeAa" |
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| Title: Re: Christian's Unanswerable Problems |
11 Jan 2004 12:24:50 AM |
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"The_Sage" <theeSage@azrmci.net> wrote in message
news:nok100d7ig5ur0cr5nf1dnd1q4pddgr8t8@4ax.com...
The "Place" and the Universe are one and the same: both are infinite, and
both
have no beginning or ending.
Actually many scientists are beginning to think there after all are limits
to the universe, and that this ours it but one universe of perhaps
uncomprehensibly many
For instance:
http://www.geocities.com/rationalphysics/Unbounded_Finite.htm
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/universe_soccer_031008.html
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| User: "The_Sage" |
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| Title: Re: Christian's Unanswerable Problems |
11 Jan 2004 01:21:22 PM |
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Reply to article by: "DeeAa" <deeaa@REMOVETHISdnainternet.net>
Date written: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 08:24:50 +0200
MsgID:<4000ec35$1@news.dnainternet.net>
The "Place" and the Universe are one and the same: both are infinite, and both
have no beginning or ending.
Actually many scientists are beginning to think there after all are limits
to the universe, and that this ours it but one universe of perhaps
uncomprehensibly many
For instance:
http://www.geocities.com/rationalphysics/Unbounded_Finite.htm
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/universe_soccer_031008.html
If our LOCAL universe has limits, where are those limits located and do those
limits EXIST inside of? You can only have a limit if you have something else to
limit it with. You are confusing the limits of our LOCAL universe, which has
limits or boundaries, and the entire Universe, which is everything that exists
inside and outside the limits of our LOCAL universe. Of course it isn't your
fault for your confusion as people misuse the word "universe" in the same exact
way they use to misuse the word "world", ie -- Europe/Africa/Asia used to be
called the whole entire world but in reality it was only half of the world.
The Sage
=============================================================
My Home Page : http://members.cox.net/the.sage
"Little minds are interested in the extraordinary; great
minds in the commonplace"
-- Elbert Hubbard, ROYCROFT DICTIONARY AND BOOK OF EPIGRAMS
=============================================================
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| User: "Elmer Bataitis" |
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| Title: Re: Evilution's Unanswerable Problems |
08 Jan 2004 05:25:15 PM |
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IKnowNothingDoYou wrote:
Evilution's Unanswerable Problems
Evilution is faced with a great number of unanswerable problems. Problems
so gigantic that it boggles the human mind. Just to list a few of these
origin problems:
Human speech & communication
Linguistic Evolution through Language Acquisition: Formal and
Computational Models
Edited by Briscoe, E.J.. Cambridge University Press. (2002)
Hearing at different frequencies
?? Why is this a problem for science?
Human brain & nervous system
Why is this a problem for science?
Human circulation & respiratory systems
Why is this a problem for science?
Reproduction(male & female or even simple)
Why is this a problem for science?
Immune systems
Why is this a problem for science?
Diseases
Ever hear of germs and viruses?
Mutations that are almost always harmful
Nope. Most mutations are neutral.
Human eyes(in fact all eyes that must be complete to work)
Except that there is a complete range of eyes in biology; from light
sensitive molecules in bacteria to "eyespots" in worms and such, to an
eagle's eyes.
Bird flight & structure(lungs, bones, feathers)
Why is this a problem for science?
Insect flight
Why is this a problem for science?
Cold & warm blooded creatures
Why is this a problem for science?
Instinct(mating, nesting, migration)
Why is this a problem for science?
Cambrian life explosion of complete creatures
What, were there some kind of *incomplete* creatures before then? ;-)
Worldwide flood geology evidence
There is none.
Arctic/Anarctic ice miles deep of fresh water(no salt)
Ice formation forces salt ions out, unless very quickly done, and even
then the ice is still mostly fresh. Sheest.
Ocean salt/river salt depostion
Says the world is at least 100 million years old.
Earth mangnetic flux rundown
The earth's magnetic field has collapsed and reversed numerous times in
the past.
Comets & meteors
Yeah. They exist. Why is this a problem for science?
Earth atmosphere that supports life
Why is this a problem for science?
Mega molecules that support life
Huh? Mini molecules help too you know.
Life itself-in all forms
Why is this a problem for science?
Complete absence of evidence of life transitions
Here you're wrong, if by this you mean speciation. That's been observed.
Death of life*
Why is this a problem for science?
All of these, and many more, should cause even the most rabid evilutionary
religionists to stop and consider what kind of a false religion they
worship.
You seem to be rather under educated in science.
On the other hand, God's Word answers all these questions, sometimes even
down to the smallest detail.
Bwahahaha!
So, who does one believe: Fallible men or an infallible Creator?
Where did this infallible Creator write down all this information,
Himself? You're not going to say that He "inspired" humans to do it now
are you? You *are* going to say that He does not lie with the evidence
he leaves for us to discover in His universe, right?
*You too are going to die for we have no choice:
So?
If you are born once you will die twice.
If you are born twice you will die only once. John 3:3
So?
***************************************************************
Elmer Bataitis “Hot dog! Smooch city here I come!”
Planetech Services -Hobbes
585-442-2884
"...proudly wearing and displaying, as a badge of honor, the
straight jacket of conventional thought."
***************************************************************
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| User: "Matt Silberstein matts2nopam@ix netcom.nospamcom" |
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| Title: Re: Evilution's Unanswerable Problems |
08 Jan 2004 08:25:38 PM |
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In alt.religion.christian I read this message from
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou):
Evilution's Unanswerable Problems
Evilution is faced with a great number of unanswerable problems. Problems
so gigantic that it boggles the human mind. Just to list a few of these
origin problems:
Human speech & communication
Hearing at different frequencies
Human brain & nervous system
Human circulation & respiratory systems
Reproduction(male & female or even simple)
Immune systems
Diseases
Mutations that are almost always harmful
Human eyes(in fact all eyes that must be complete to work)
Bird flight & structure(lungs, bones, feathers)
Insect flight
Cold & warm blooded creatures
Instinct(mating, nesting, migration)
Cambrian life explosion of complete creatures
Worldwide flood geology evidence
Arctic/Anarctic ice miles deep of fresh water(no salt)
Ocean salt/river salt depostion
Earth mangnetic flux rundown
Comets & meteors
Earth atmosphere that supports life
Mega molecules that support life
Life itself-in all forms
Complete absence of evidence of life transitions
Death of life*
All of these, and many more, should cause even the most rabid evilutionary
religionists to stop and consider what kind of a false religion they
worship.
Why? You have not presented any evidence, any argument. All we
have is your bare claim that science has not (yet, but you don't
mention that) figured these out.
On the other hand, God's Word answers all these questions, sometimes even
down to the smallest detail.
Is the answer anything other than "God did it" or "Because God
wanted it that way"?
So, who does one believe: Fallible men or an infallible Creator?
Well I don't believe you if that is what you mean. Certainly you
don't confuse your ideas with God, do you?
[snip]
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| User: "oz" |
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| Title: Re: Evilution's Unanswerable Problems |
08 Jan 2004 03:02:26 PM |
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In article <IKnowHim-0801040953100001@pm6-37.kalama.com>,
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
All of these, and many more, should cause even the most rabid evilutionary
religionists to stop and consider what kind of a false religion they
worship.
On the other hand, God's Word answers all these questions, sometimes even
down to the smallest detail.
+++++++++++++++++
As Jesus said:
" And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be
weeping and gnashing of teeth."
YOU who call yourself "IKnowHim" are the "unprofitable servant". YOU have
ABUSED the Bible to bury your talents and you seek to lead others to do
the same to deny God by replacing him with an archaic fantasy.
It is YOU who are the BLASPHEMER against Heaven - not those who seek
understanding , reason and truth. Your fixed mind set is of the "devil"
himself - a virulent cancer in a great religion, the Antichrist within the
Churches. and those of us who were brought up Christian - whether or not
we remained within Churches - have had a gutful of you and your like. It
is time you were thrown OUT!
For Heaven sake ***** off
Christianity has had quite enough of the likes of you
Everything you say is CRAP!!!!!!!
I mean it - people like you wrecked the Churches and the religion of my
birth and childhood. I have nothing but contempt for you
Your intellectual and scientific standards are a disgrace to the God that
made you!
***** off - out of the Churches - out of the religion and into the desert
where you can bother and annoy no-one and perhaps learn some humility and
common sense
You are a defecation on, and a defilement of the Words you claim to
worship. As with all Creationists and Fundamentalists, behind you is a
bullying and terrorist agenda
Out with you - out of Christianity - out of Islam - out of Hinduism - out
of Communism - The world has NO NEED for fundamentalists anywhere
The likes of you are the very source of terror.
+++++++++++
14 ¶ For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country,
who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one;
to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his
journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the
same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his
lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth
with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five
talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I
have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant:
thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over
many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou
deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents
beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou
hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many
things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew
thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and
gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there
thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant,
thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not
strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and
then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath
ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have
abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which
he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall
be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Jesus in Matthew)
Do not bury your talent in the Bible - Do not use the Bible as an excuse
for intellectual and spiritual idleness. When you use the Bible as a
source of power to attack those who seek to expand their talents and their
knowledge you speak against the very Founder you claim to have created
your religion - and via the Trinity your very Creator!
The good and faithful servant took his talents into the world and
increased them. That is what you must do.
Read and learn not only what the Bible offers - indeed perhaps less of
that for legends , mythology, and allegory and metaphor seem to confuse
you.
Head for the genuine shrines of the intellect where God in many forms is
worshipped in the pursuit of knowledge
They are the Universities of this world - that which your own "devils" of
"idleness" "denial" and "arrogance" have sought to prevent you entering
Purge yourself of your own "devils"
And get the life God meant for you
+++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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| User: "Kevin" |
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| Title: Re: Evilution's Unanswerable Problems |
08 Jan 2004 03:27:53 PM |
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On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 09:53:10 -0800,
(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
<snip>
IKHDY, you always posts stuff like this, generally from some web site,
since most of what I have seen you post is not original to you. While
I do agree with a lot of your posts, why do you post them, you don't
back them up, you just hit and run. That can't be useful to anyone.
All it shows me is that you can't defend your position, and since I
support some of your positions, you can imagine what those who are
against your position think of it.
People like Og, tend to think you know what you are talking about, and
you may, but I have not seen it here. Back up your posts, be willing
to discuss them with the reasonable people.
Kevin
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| User: "Alberich" |
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| Title: Re: Evilution's Unanswerable Problems |
08 Jan 2004 12:55:19 PM |
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On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 09:53:10 -0800,
(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
Evilution's
(Ad hominem attack is, sadly, IKNDY's best approach...)
Unanswerable Problems
Evilution is faced with a great number of unanswerable problems. Problems
so gigantic that it boggles the human mind. Just to list a few of these
origin problems:
Why don't you explain how these are "problems" for evolution?
Human speech & communication
Proves evolution through cultural studies.
Hearing at different frequencies
I'm not sure whose hearing you refer to.
Human brain & nervous system.
Proves evolution in various oddities.
Human circulation & respiratory systems
Proves evolution in various oddities.
Reproduction(male & female or even simple)
Proves evolution in meotic mutations.
Immune systems
Proves evolution a la herd immunity.
Diseases
Proves evolution.
Mutations that are almost always harmful
Proves evolution--evolution does not assume a telos.
Human eyes(in fact all eyes that must be complete to work)
Proves evolution, not all eyes are like human.
Bird flight & structure(lungs, bones, feathers)
I don't even get your point here!
Insect flight
And so...?
Cold & warm blooded creatures
And so...?
Instinct(mating, nesting, migration)
Proves evolution: Survival of the fittest.
Cambrian life explosion of complete creatures
Proves evolution. (Res ipsa loquitor.)
Worldwide flood geology evidence
Such as?
Arctic/Anarctic ice miles deep of fresh water(no salt)
And so...?
Ocean salt/river salt depostion
Meaning what?
Earth mangnetic flux rundown
Meaning what?
Comets & meteors
What does this have to do with life on earth?
Earth atmosphere that supports life
Yes. So? We wouldn't have this conversation otherwise.
Mega molecules that support life
Ditto.
Life itself-in all forms
In all forms. Interesting.
Complete absence of evidence of life transitions
Complete falsehood of above statement.
Death of life*
Proves evolution. Planned senescence is key to evolutionary theory.
Alberich
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