| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"IknowHimDoYou" |
| Date: |
19 Dec 2003 04:41:25 PM |
| Object: |
Evolutionism is Religion |
Evolutionism is Religion
That evolution itself is basically a religion is acknowledged by leading
evolutionist Michael Ruse;
"Evolution is promoted by its practioners as more than mere science.
Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion-a full-fledged
alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality....That was true of
evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today."
Taken from "Saving Darwin from the Darwinians", Michael Ruse, National
Post May 13, 2000
Most of the world's religions, save Christianity, are based on evolution
rather than creation. This is not only true of atheism and humanism but
also on Buddhism, Confusianism , Hinduism, Taoism, Shintoism, Lamainism,
and other Eastern mystic religions. It certainly is the basis for Roman
Catholism according to their pope, and other marginal groups such as
Episcopalianism, Methodism, Unitarinism, Universalism, Bahaism, and many
others. It was also the basis of the early religions such as that of
Egypt, Sumeria, Babel, Greece and Rome.
One exception is the recent discovery of the earlist Chinese pictographs
found on early bones, turtle shells and bronze vessels used in religious
rituals showing Adam being created by God, and other representations from
the book of Genesis long predating any effect from the Christian
missionaries.
If you subscribe to the false teachings of evolutionism you are standing
in the company of all these other pagan religions.
--
Recte Faciendo Neminem Timeas
Is it opinion? Is it fact? Is it truth?
.
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| User: "Andrew W" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
19 Dec 2003 07:25:52 PM |
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"IknowHimSoI'mSuperiourToYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-1912031441250001@pm1-01.kalama.com...
Evolutionism is Religion
That evolution itself is basically a religion is acknowledged by leading
evolutionist Michael Ruse;
"Evolution is promoted by its practioners as more than mere science.
Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion-a full-fledged
alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality....That was true of
evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today."
This is merely the opinion of one of many narrow minded individuals.
He mentions morality. What does morality have to do with evolution?
How can evolutionism be a religion when there are is no place of
congregation, no worship of a deity, no tax exemption and no charity
collection, just to name a few things?
That evolutionism or atheism are religions is nothing more than a popular
and childish retort by christians when they are stumped for answers.
Andrew.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/ajwerner/
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| User: "Vicki" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
20 Dec 2003 10:07:11 PM |
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"Andrew W" <nosp@m_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fe3a52a$0$18690$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"IknowHimSoI'mSuperiourToYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-1912031441250001@pm1-01.kalama.com...
Evolutionism is Religion
That evolution itself is basically a religion is acknowledged by leading
evolutionist Michael Ruse;
"Evolution is promoted by its practioners as more than mere science.
Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion-a
full-fledged
alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality....That was true
of
evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today."
This is merely the opinion of one of many narrow minded individuals.
He mentions morality. What does morality have to do with evolution?
How can evolutionism be a religion when there are is no place of
congregation, no worship of a deity, no tax exemption and no charity
collection, just to name a few things?
That evolutionism or atheism are religions is nothing more than a popular
and childish retort by christians when they are stumped for answers.
Andrew.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/ajwerner/
I agree with you!
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| User: "Bill Litchfield" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
20 Dec 2003 02:05:55 PM |
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"Andrew W" <nosp@m_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fe3a52a$0$18690$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"IknowHimSoI'mSuperiourToYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-1912031441250001@pm1-01.kalama.com...
Evolutionism is Religion
That evolution itself is basically a religion is acknowledged by leading
evolutionist Michael Ruse;
"Evolution is promoted by its practioners as more than mere science.
Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion-a
full-fledged
alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality....That was true
of
evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today."
This is merely the opinion of one of many narrow minded individuals.
He mentions morality. What does morality have to do with evolution?
How can evolutionism be a religion when there are is no place of
congregation, no worship of a deity, no tax exemption and no charity
collection, just to name a few things?
That evolutionism or atheism are religions is nothing more than a popular
and childish retort by christians when they are stumped for answers.
Andrew.
I have been gone from these groups for over two weeks due to a death in the
family. I had hoped that upon my return that IKHDY would have been gone, as
he keeps saying he is leaving soon. Alas, no such luck, and we're still
fending off his *****! Sigh....
Shalom,
Bill
http://members.optusnet.com.au/ajwerner/
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| User: "Thore Schmechtig" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
20 Dec 2003 05:09:48 PM |
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Hi,
I have been gone from these groups for over two weeks due to a death in the
family. I had hoped that upon my return that IKHDY would have been gone, as
he keeps saying he is leaving soon. Alas, no such luck, and we're still
fending off his *****! Sigh....
At least he gives us more and more reason to mock him. After all, one
who can't calculate 12 - 9 right but thinks he can teach others about
faith just HAS to be ridiculed ;)
--
"Let the Gods stay where they belonged, and if they would not, clan warriors would bid against them in a battle to claim spiritual rights."
Falconer Joanna (Robert Thurston, "BattleTech: Bloodname")
Greetings from Thore "Tocis" Schmechtig, proud German Asatruar
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
19 Dec 2003 06:52:59 PM |
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(IknowHimDoYou) wrote in
news:IknowHim-1912031441250001@pm1-01.kalama.com:
Evolutionism is Religion
That evolution itself is basically a religion is acknowledged by
leading evolutionist Michael Ruse;
"Evolution is promoted by its practioners as more than mere science.
Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion-a
full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and
morality....That was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is
true of evolution still today."
Ruse may be right in the sense that some atheists do use it this way,
just as some creationists abuse certain aspects of relativity theory by
misrepresenting them. But that does not make evolutionary biology a
religion.
Taken from "Saving Darwin from the Darwinians", Michael Ruse, National
Post May 13, 2000
Most of the world's religions, save Christianity, are based on
evolution rather than creation. This is not only true of atheism and
This is pretty much wrong. ALL religions recognize that there is change
in the world. But all Christian sects, including those you paint with
such a broad brush below believe the basic creationism of the Nicene
Creed. Islam and Judaism share a belief in a creator God. The Hindu
Trimurti consists of Brahma, the creator, Vishnu the sustainer and Shiva
the changer or destroyer. Taoism and Buddhism tend to be non-commital on
this score.
humanism but also on Buddhism, Confusianism , Hinduism, Taoism,
Shintoism, Lamainism, and other Eastern mystic religions. It
certainly is the basis for Roman Catholism according to their pope,
and other marginal groups such as Episcopalianism, Methodism,
Unitarinism, Universalism, Bahaism, and many others. It was also the
basis of the early religions such as that of Egypt, Sumeria, Babel,
Greece and Rome.
One exception is the recent discovery of the earlist Chinese
pictographs found on early bones, turtle shells and bronze vessels
used in religious rituals showing Adam being created by God, and other
representations from the book of Genesis long predating any effect
from the Christian missionaries.
Many primitive tribes have legends about deities creating man (from a
variety of things).
If you subscribe to the false teachings of evolutionism you are
standing in the company of all these other pagan religions.
And, if you subscribe to the lies and sophistry of latter-day young-earth
creationists, you are standing in the company of no REAL religions, only
some apostate wretches who, in the name of Christ, have made evil their
good and who would lead astray every victim they can lure with their
deceptive tactics.
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
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| User: "fencingsax" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
06 Jan 2004 11:27:02 AM |
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(IknowHimDoYou) wrote in message news:<IknowHim-1912031441250001@pm1-01.kalama.com>...
If you subscribe to the false teachings of evolutionism you are standing
in the company of all these other pagan religions.
<snippage>
Ya mean all those religions that Xtianity "borrowed" from?
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| User: "Thore Schmechtig" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
19 Dec 2003 04:53:56 PM |
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That evolution itself is basically a religion is acknowledged by leading
evolutionist Michael Ruse;
A religion is a belief in SUPERnatural entities. There's nothing
supernatural in the theory of evolution.
By the way, 12 - 9 = ?
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A (CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALIST
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of
gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when
someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists
say that people evolved from other life forms, but you
have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were
created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem
believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the
"atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even
flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all
the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the
elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" --
including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and
Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have
no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated
Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed,
came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little
loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth
(4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with
believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting
in their tents and guessing that Earth is a couple of
generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet
with the exception of those who share your beliefs --
though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend
Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet
consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and
physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot
rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be
all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it
comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be
evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and
agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church
history - but still call yourself a Christian.
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| User: "E.N." |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
28 Dec 2003 05:32:57 PM |
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"Thore Schmechtig" <WRITETOcommoner@carcosa.de> wrote in message
news:bs01tt$88a18$1@ID-87341.news.uni-berlin.de...
That evolution itself is basically a religion is acknowledged by leading
evolutionist Michael Ruse;
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A (CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALIST
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of
gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when
someone denies the existence of yours.
I don't care. Jehovah is who is is, ´Eh·jeh´ ´Asjer´ ´Eh·jeh´ in other words
YHWH will proof himselves. We don't need to.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists
say that people evolved from other life forms, but you
have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were
created from dirt.
Scientifically correct, we are created from the 'dust' from earth. Since
Moses, the writer of Genesis, could not know the word 'molecules' I forgive
him for saying 'dust'
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem
believing in a Triune God.
YHWH God is one, *not* three. (Deuteronomium 6:4)
Jehwah´ ´Elo·he´noe Jehwah´ ´e·chadh´. (YHWH, our God, is YHWH one)
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the
"atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even
flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all
the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the
elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" --
including women, children, and trees!
Eye for eye, tooth for tooth. Don't you know that the Egyptians killed
thousands of hebrew male babies? (Exodus 1:22)
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and
Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have
no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated
Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed,
came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
Genesis 6 tells that sons of God (angels) had sex with women, those they
choose. From these marriages came the 'bastards' or giants that for instance
greek mytology still talks of (like Ajax and Herculus).
But mary did not have sex. Why should Jehovah not be able to fertilize a
woman using if he himself created human (like Vitro Fertilisation does not
need sex between 2 people as well!)
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little
loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth
(4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with
believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting
in their tents and guessing that Earth is a couple of
generations old.
This is not what bible tells us. 'In the beginning, God created heaven and
earth' in fact, does NOT mention WHEN this was. It leaves space to believe
that the scientific measurement of 4.55 billion is OK.
The 6 creation days, are no literal days. As in Genesis 2:4 mentions: "at
the day that that the earth and heaven were created" As you see, day must
not be taken literal but as an epox or period just like we can say: "At my
old day, I will enjoy ..."
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet
with the exception of those who share your beliefs --
though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend
Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet
consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
This is not in the bible. In that 'same ' hell or eternal fire, the devil
*and* death itself are thrown. So, this eternal fire, *cannot* be literal
but has a symbolic meaning.
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and
physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot
rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be
all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
Satan can do miracles as well. So claiming wonders is not very unique.
Love among each other is the *only* true miracle (John 13:35)
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it
comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be
evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
I never measured it, but I also did not measure my heart beats or how many
times I breath fresh air. Praying is part of my live, and should be just
like eating and breathing normal.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and
agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church
history - but still call yourself a Christian.
Anybody can teach me new things.
.
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| User: "Thore Schmechtig" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
29 Dec 2003 02:11:06 AM |
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Hey,
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A (CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALIST
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of
gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when
someone denies the existence of yours.
I don't care. Jehovah is who is is...
Well, I can't remember having had discussions with you before (of
course, my memory is not infallible ;) ), but from what you wrote it
seems to me that at least you're not one of the raving mad fanatics.
You believe different things than I do. Fine with me. It's your right
to do so. Please note that I have no objections against those of
another faith... those I despise are the fundie bastards who would tell
any ludicrous lie to further their agenda, which is to force everyone
else to bow to their literal interpretation of the bible and to their
interpretation of the biblical god - an interpretation that results in
a cruel sadistic jehova.
--
"From the fury of the Northmen, o lord, deliver us!"
(Desperate prayer of christian monks when the Viking dragon ships were sighted. Obviously the lord was not listening.)
Greetings from Thore "Tocis" Schmechtig
Emails to commoner AT carcosa DOT de will need a "HI-AK 523" in the subject or go down the drain!
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| User: "E.N." |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
29 Dec 2003 06:34:35 AM |
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"Thore Schmechtig" <WRITETOcommoner@carcosa.de> wrote in message
news:bsoodo$ecp8o$1@ID-87341.news.uni-berlin.de...
Hey,
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A (CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALIST
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of
gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when
someone denies the existence of yours.
I don't care. Jehovah is who is is...
Well, I can't remember having had discussions with you before (of
course, my memory is not infallible ;) ), but from what you wrote it
You are right, I'm new here. I am Dutch and decided to make my horizon for
discussions a little wider. Before I was discussing creation vs evolution
with Dutch.
seems to me that at least you're not one of the raving mad fanatics.
You believe different things than I do. Fine with me. It's your right
to do so. Please note that I have no objections against those of
another faith... those I despise are the fundie bastards who would tell
any ludicrous lie to further their agenda, which is to force everyone
else to bow to their literal interpretation of the bible and to their
interpretation of the biblical god - an interpretation that results in
a cruel sadistic jehova.
That's right. However, I'm not a fundie that thinks that good comes from God
and bad from the Devil or that God predestinates our lives (which would also
mean that God made Adam sin) but I do believe that God has the right to ask
obedience from his creations.
At that point, discussions continue on whether or not God has right to
destroy Sodom or Gomorra or to cause a deluge. So you won't find me at the
side of the ones pointing the angry fingers to upstairs :)
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| User: "flora macdonald" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
20 Dec 2003 12:47:21 AM |
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"Thore Schmechtig" <WRITETOcommoner@carcosa.de> wrote in message news:<bs01tt$88a18$1@ID-87341.news.uni-berlin.de>...
That evolution itself is basically a religion is acknowledged by leading
evolutionist Michael Ruse;
A religion is a belief in SUPERnatural entities. There's nothing
supernatural in the theory of evolution.
By the way, 12 - 9 = ?
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A (CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALIST
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of
gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when
someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists
say that people evolved from other life forms, but you
have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were
created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem
believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the
"atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even
flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all
the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the
elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" --
including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and
Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have
no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated
Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed,
came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little
loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth
(4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with
believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting
in their tents and guessing that Earth is a couple of
generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet
with the exception of those who share your beliefs --
though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend
Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet
consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and
physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot
rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be
all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it
comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be
evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and
agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church
history - but still call yourself a Christian.
There are no evolutionists. You are referring to biologists.
Flora
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| User: "Thore Schmechtig" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
20 Dec 2003 02:16:04 AM |
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Hi,
There are no evolutionists. You are referring to biologists.
Indeed. Maybe you got the quote signs wrong? I-know-***** babbled, as
usual, about "evolutionists" while I made it clear that there is no
such thing as a religion of evolution ("evolutionism" as he loves to
call it). :)
--
"Let the Gods stay where they belonged, and if they would not, clan warriors would bid against them in a battle to claim spiritual rights."
Falconer Joanna (Robert Thurston, "BattleTech: Bloodname")
Greetings from Thore "Tocis" Schmechtig, proud German Asatruar
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| User: "flora macdonald" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
20 Dec 2003 08:29:53 AM |
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"Thore Schmechtig" <WRITETOcommoner@carcosa.de> wrote in message news:<bs15jv$89e0t$2@ID-87341.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Hi,
There are no evolutionists. You are referring to biologists.
Indeed. Maybe you got the quote signs wrong? I-know-***** babbled, as
usual, about "evolutionists" while I made it clear that there is no
such thing as a religion of evolution ("evolutionism" as he loves to
call it). :)
Yes, I got the quote signs wrong. Apologies and a very Happy Mithrasmas.
Flora
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| User: "Thore Schmechtig" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
20 Dec 2003 05:07:01 PM |
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Hi,
Yes, I got the quote signs wrong. Apologies and a very Happy Mithrasmas.
No problems, and from me a heartily "merry Yul" :)
--
"Let the Gods stay where they belonged, and if they would not, clan warriors would bid against them in a battle to claim spiritual rights."
Falconer Joanna (Robert Thurston, "BattleTech: Bloodname")
Greetings from Thore "Tocis" Schmechtig, proud German Asatruar
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
20 Dec 2003 09:43:49 AM |
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On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 23:53:56 +0100, "Thore Schmechtig"
<WRITETOcommoner@carcosa.de> spake thusly:
That evolution itself is basically a religion is acknowledged by leading
evolutionist Michael Ruse;
A religion is a belief in SUPERnatural entities.
It is also defined as, "A cause, principle, or activity
pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"Evolution is accepted by zoologists not because
it has been observed to occur, or is supported
by logically coherent arguments, but because...
no alternative explanation is credible. Whilst
the fact of evolution is accepted by every
biologist, the mode in which it has occurred and
the mechanism by which it has been brought about
are still disputable. ...the theory of evolution
itself is a theory universally accepted not because
it can be proved by logical coherent evidence to be
true, but because the only alternative is special
creation, which is clearly incredible."
- D.M.S. Watson, "Adaptation", Nature,
August 10, 1929, Vol. 124
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
20 Dec 2003 11:57:25 AM |
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Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in
news:lgr8uvcu4fh3h5rqrrfg88l2v09np0d4of@4ax.com:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 23:53:56 +0100, "Thore Schmechtig"
<WRITETOcommoner@carcosa.de> spake thusly:
That evolution itself is basically a religion is acknowledged by
leading evolutionist Michael Ruse;
A religion is a belief in SUPERnatural entities.
It is also defined as, "A cause, principle, or activity
pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."
Yes, but in the technical sense used in the US constitution and other
legal systems, it applies to a complete body of spiritual teaching. I
know of no specific SPIRITUAL teachings implied by evolutionary biology,
though selected FACTS of evolutionary biology are sometimes used to
support the spiritual teachings of atheists, while creationists select
other facts from biology and attempt to use those to support THEIR
religion and its spiritual teachings.
But to attack the science, as religion, is to lie. And it's creationists
mostly who do that.
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
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| User: "rfburn" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
19 Dec 2003 11:05:34 PM |
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Thore Schmechtig wrote:
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A (CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALIST
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of
gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when
someone denies the existence of yours.
I'm not at all outraged when someone denies the God of the bible. No other
Christians I know are outraged.
Rather I feel sorrow that they have so far in their life rejected God. I
witness to them if able and pray for them. In the end I am not responsible
for their soul, they are.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists
say that people evolved from other life forms, but you
have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were
created from dirt.
There is no evidence to back up the evolutionary fairytale.
However, responsible science repeatedly backs-up claims found with in the
bible.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem
believing in a Triune God.
See the reply to your claim #1.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the
"atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even
flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all
the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the
elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" --
including women, children, and trees!
My face turns no color when I hear of 'atrocities' attributed to Allah.
Allah does not exist and therefore committed no atrocities. People who claim
to follow this no existant god have committed atrocities and should be held
responsible.
And I would say the same of any person who claims to be Christian.
God however committed no atrocities, you simply believe yourself to be wiser
and of more compassion then God.
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and
Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have
no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated
Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed,
came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
I laugh at no such thing. See reply to your claim #1.
As for the Holy Spirit impregnating Mary, it is not believed that anything
sexual took place. This was supernatural and not being god ourselves we are
not able to know the how's of it.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little
loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth
(4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with
believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting
in their tents and guessing that Earth is a couple of
generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet
with the exception of those who share your beliefs --
though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend
Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet
consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
Are you offended by truth?
I believe that those who reject God will spend eternity in hell because it
is factual. The bible tells us this and the bible has been demonstrated to
be true by way of history, archeology and prophecy.
You are willing to believe it seems, that regardless of the evil men do they
end in the end face no punishment.
The punishment of hell is separation from the Holy God who created you. But,
you have already rejected Him, so why would you mind being eternally
separated from Him?
By allowing you to reside for all eternity God has given you what you
sought, separation from Him. This should please you.
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and
physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot
rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be
all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it
comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be
evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
All prayers are answered, every last one.
Sometimes they are not the answers we wanted. But, God being God knows
better than we do. And when He answers those prayers in a way we wished He
had not, we should thank Him as He always does what is best for us. It is
when we ignore Him that we run into trouble.
Keeping this in mind would go a long way in the solving of your many, many
problems.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and
agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church
history - but still call yourself a Christian.
You are right in part. Some Christians no next to nothing about the bible.
But, as the bible is not God then they do not need to know the bible well in
order to know God Himself.
Knowing the bible does help in our relationship with God though in that it
enables us to better understand His character.
Had I no bible, I would still know God. I see the evidence of Him every
waking moment of life. You see the same evidence, you simply have said in
your heart that there is no God.
But God has provided you endless amounts of evidence. My prayer is that
someday you will begin to actually look at the evidence.
(don't tell me you already have, it is clear from your post that you have
not).
.
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| User: "Andrew W" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
20 Dec 2003 12:37:25 AM |
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"rfburn" <rfburnhertz@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:3fe3d6ca_3@athenanews.com...
Thore Schmechtig wrote:
The punishment of hell is separation from the Holy God who created you.
But,
you have already rejected Him, so why would you mind being eternally
separated from Him?
By allowing you to reside for all eternity God has given you what you
sought, separation from Him. This should please you.
If it's pleasing to be in separation then it is no longer considered to be a
suffering, and if it is merely separation then why not just call it
separation? Why the dramatisation? A true God does not over-dramatise. Only
man does that and the bible is full of it.
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| User: "rfburn" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
20 Dec 2003 11:16:07 AM |
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Andrew W wrote:
If it's pleasing to be in separation then it is no longer considered to be
a suffering, and if it is merely separation then why not just call it
separation? Why the dramatisation? A true God does not over-dramatize.
Only man does that and the bible is full of it.
Then you have no worries, right?
There is no over dramatization, there is only you wanting to be spared the
details.
--
http://www.truthsmack.com/
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion -- EMBARRASSED FUNDIES |
20 Dec 2003 10:17:03 AM |
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THERE IS NO SUCH THING as "Evolutionism".
Just a stupid fundie-invented word by people
embarrassed about being religious! -- L.
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| User: "Alberich" |
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| Title: Evolution and Catholicism |
19 Dec 2003 05:25:18 PM |
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On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:41:25 -0800,
(IknowHimDoYou) wrote:
If you want to post this drivel in the Catholic newsgroups, at least
make it somehow relevant. The Catholic Church has no problem with
evolution. If you want to continue to complain with your friends and
alt.fundieprotestants.r.us, please continue to do so, but quit posting
this trash in the Catholic groups.
Alberich
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and Catholicism |
19 Dec 2003 06:54:37 PM |
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Alberich <Alberich@NoSpam.com> wrote in
news:7427uvs4pnjqj2bo4bonjhaf4t7e458af2@4ax.com:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:41:25 -0800,
(IknowHimDoYou) wrote:
If you want to post this drivel in the Catholic newsgroups, at least
make it somehow relevant. The Catholic Church has no problem with
evolution. If you want to continue to complain with your friends and
alt.fundieprotestants.r.us, please continue to do so, but quit posting
this trash in the Catholic groups.
He won't, of course. He is a total infidel in reality, I think!
And he gets his kicks by stirring people up against him. It lets him
indulge his persecution complex. It just never occurs to these people that
the real reason people don't like them is not because they are holy, but
because they are NASTY!
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
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| User: "David Wise" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
24 Dec 2003 11:40:47 AM |
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Please tell me, since every other creationist has refused to do so for
the past 20 years that I've been asking this simple question:
What is this "evolutionISM" that you keep carrying on about?
Followed by this question:
And why do you keep confusing it with evolution?
Then after we finally get creationists to tell us what this
"evolutionISM" is, maybe, just maybe, we can get them to tell us what
an "evolutionist" is.
IknowHim@leavingsoon.com (IknowHimDoYou) wrote in message news:<IknowHim-1912031441250001@pm1-01.kalama.com>...
Evolutionism is Religion
That evolution itself is basically a religion is acknowledged by leading
evolutionist Michael Ruse;
"Evolution is promoted by its practioners as more than mere science.
Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion-a full-fledged
alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality....That was true of
evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today."
Taken from "Saving Darwin from the Darwinians", Michael Ruse, National
Post May 13, 2000
Most of the world's religions, save Christianity, are based on evolution
rather than creation. This is not only true of atheism and humanism but
also on Buddhism, Confusianism , Hinduism, Taoism, Shintoism, Lamainism,
and other Eastern mystic religions. It certainly is the basis for Roman
Catholism according to their pope, and other marginal groups such as
Episcopalianism, Methodism, Unitarinism, Universalism, Bahaism, and many
others. It was also the basis of the early religions such as that of
Egypt, Sumeria, Babel, Greece and Rome.
One exception is the recent discovery of the earlist Chinese pictographs
found on early bones, turtle shells and bronze vessels used in religious
rituals showing Adam being created by God, and other representations from
the book of Genesis long predating any effect from the Christian
missionaries.
If you subscribe to the false teachings of evolutionism you are standing
in the company of all these other pagan religions.
.
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| User: "Vicki" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
05 Jan 2004 12:24:55 PM |
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"David Wise" <dwise1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad30b67a.0312240940.7e4e3540@posting.google.com...
Please tell me, since every other creationist has refused to do so for
the past 20 years that I've been asking this simple question:
What is this "evolutionISM" that you keep carrying on about?
Followed by this question:
And why do you keep confusing it with evolution?
Then after we finally get creationists to tell us what this
"evolutionISM" is, maybe, just maybe, we can get them to tell us what
an "evolutionist" is.
Er, have you heard of a dictionary?
:-)
I had to, you set yourself up, and I could not resist.
Vicki
It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have
one's doubts.
- George Brown (G.B.) Burgin
.
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| User: "David Wise" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
05 Jan 2004 07:27:40 PM |
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"Vicki" <vicpurk@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<0_hKb.44905$HQ.42173@okepread02>...
"David Wise" <dwise1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad30b67a.0312240940.7e4e3540@posting.google.com...
Please tell me, since every other creationist has refused to do so for
the past 20 years that I've been asking this simple question:
What is this "evolutionISM" that you keep carrying on about?
Followed by this question:
And why do you keep confusing it with evolution?
Then after we finally get creationists to tell us what this
"evolutionISM" is, maybe, just maybe, we can get them to tell us what
an "evolutionist" is.
Er, have you heard of a dictionary?
Aye, I have heard of dictionaries. Have even read a few. But these
pesky creationists keep making up their own special dictionaries
on-the-fly. And they refuse to share with the rest of us what their
special private little definitions are!
:-)
I had to, you set yourself up, and I could not resist.
Vicki
It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have
one's doubts.
- George Brown (G.B.) Burgin
.
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| User: "dpr" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
05 Jan 2004 11:13:19 PM |
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"David Wise" <dwise1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad30b67a.0401051727.609e4b08@posting.google.com...
"Vicki" <vicpurk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<0_hKb.44905$HQ.42173@okepread02>...
"David Wise" <dwise1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad30b67a.0312240940.7e4e3540@posting.google.com...
Please tell me, since every other creationist has refused to do so for
the past 20 years that I've been asking this simple question:
What is this "evolutionISM" that you keep carrying on about?
Followed by this question:
And why do you keep confusing it with evolution?
Then after we finally get creationists to tell us what this
"evolutionISM" is, maybe, just maybe, we can get them to tell us what
an "evolutionist" is.
So you agree that man did not evolve from the ancestors of the present day
apes, and you also must agree that man did not evolve out of some primordial
slime.
Being that there is no fossil record showing that we actually had a common
ancestor with the apes, or that we evolved out of slime, evolution is no
less a religion than those that believe in creation.
The creation belief does acknowledge that man does evolve, as well as most
every other species, it is where the beginning of the our history starts
where there is a difference. Since neither can be proven, why not just teach
both views.
.
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| User: "David Wise" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
06 Jan 2004 10:02:13 AM |
|
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"dpr" <&^%@&^%.com> wrote in message news:<vvkgdv1buq46d0@corp.supernews.com>...
"David Wise" <dwise1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad30b67a.0401051727.609e4b08@posting.google.com...
"Vicki" <vicpurk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<0_hKb.44905$HQ.42173@okepread02>...
"David Wise" <dwise1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad30b67a.0312240940.7e4e3540@posting.google.com...
Please tell me, since every other creationist has refused to do so for
the past 20 years that I've been asking this simple question:
What is this "evolutionISM" that you keep carrying on about?
Followed by this question:
And why do you keep confusing it with evolution?
Then after we finally get creationists to tell us what this
"evolutionISM" is, maybe, just maybe, we can get them to tell us what
an "evolutionist" is.
So you agree that man did not evolve from the ancestors of the present day
apes, and you also must agree that man did not evolve out of some primordial
slime.
Being that there is no fossil record showing that we actually had a common
ancestor with the apes, or that we evolved out of slime, evolution is no
less a religion than those that believe in creation.
The creation belief does acknowledge that man does evolve, as well as most
every other species, it is where the beginning of the our history starts
where there is a difference. Since neither can be proven, why not just teach
both views.
Whatever are you babbling about? If you are going to provide that
ever-elusive (or rather evasive) definition of "evolutionISM" and
"evolutionIST", then DO SO!
If you are just going to evade the question and babble nonsense, then
please just shut up and go away. You'd only be wasting everybody's
time and, besides, you would only make creationists look even worse
than they already do.
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
12 Jan 2004 08:56:49 PM |
|
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"dpr" <&^%@&^%.com> wrote in news:vvkgdv1buq46d0@corp.supernews.com:
"David Wise" <dwise1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad30b67a.0401051727.609e4b08@posting.google.com...
"Vicki" <vicpurk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<0_hKb.44905$HQ.42173@okepread02>...
"David Wise" <dwise1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad30b67a.0312240940.7e4e3540@posting.google.com...
Please tell me, since every other creationist has refused to do
so for the past 20 years that I've been asking this simple
question: What is this "evolutionISM" that you keep carrying on
about? Followed by this question:
And why do you keep confusing it with evolution?
Then after we finally get creationists to tell us what this
"evolutionISM" is, maybe, just maybe, we can get them to tell us
what an "evolutionist" is.
So you agree that man did not evolve from the ancestors of the present
day apes, and you also must agree that man did not evolve out of some
primordial slime.
Humans and chimps share a common genetic ancestor. We don't have (or at
least don't KNOW we have) a fossil specimen of that species yet and we
may never hane. That isn't how we know.
Being that there is no fossil record showing that we actually had a
common ancestor with the apes, or that we evolved out of slime,
evolution is no less a religion than those that believe in creation.
Straw man argument, coupled to a non sequitur. Just because we don't
know a thing one way doesn't mean we don't have evidence from other
areas.
The creation belief does acknowledge that man does evolve, as well as
most every other species, it is where the beginning of the our history
starts where there is a difference. Since neither can be proven, why
not just teach both views.
Humans and chimps have a recent (5-10mya) common genetic ancestor.
Get used to hearing this because it's a done deal. There is no other way
to interpret the evidence unless you want to invoke a deity who is
malicious, stupid or both.
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
.
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| User: "dpr" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
13 Jan 2004 07:18:09 PM |
|
|
"Dave Oldridge" <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns946EC0BFFAF73doldridgsprintca@24.69.255.211...
"dpr" <&^%@&^%.com> wrote in news:vvkgdv1buq46d0@corp.supernews.com:
"David Wise" <dwise1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad30b67a.0401051727.609e4b08@posting.google.com...
"Vicki" <vicpurk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<0_hKb.44905$HQ.42173@okepread02>...
"David Wise" <dwise1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad30b67a.0312240940.7e4e3540@posting.google.com...
Please tell me, since every other creationist has refused to do
so for the past 20 years that I've been asking this simple
question: What is this "evolutionISM" that you keep carrying on
about? Followed by this question:
And why do you keep confusing it with evolution?
Then after we finally get creationists to tell us what this
"evolutionISM" is, maybe, just maybe, we can get them to tell us
what an "evolutionist" is.
So you agree that man did not evolve from the ancestors of the present
day apes, and you also must agree that man did not evolve out of some
primordial slime.
Humans and chimps share a common genetic ancestor. We don't have (or at
least don't KNOW we have) a fossil specimen of that species yet and we
may never hane. That isn't how we know.
Being that there is no fossil record showing that we actually had a
common ancestor with the apes, or that we evolved out of slime,
evolution is no less a religion than those that believe in creation.
Straw man argument, coupled to a non sequitur. Just because we don't
know a thing one way doesn't mean we don't have evidence from other
areas.
The creation belief does acknowledge that man does evolve, as well as
most every other species, it is where the beginning of the our history
starts where there is a difference. Since neither can be proven, why
not just teach both views.
Humans and chimps have a recent (5-10mya) common genetic ancestor.
And the name of this species, and where may we see some fossils?
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolutionism is Religion |
13 Jan 2004 08:29:24 PM |
|
|
"dpr" <&^%@&^%.com> wrote in news:10095kf7dgc0nb1@corp.supernews.com:
"Dave Oldridge" <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns946EC0BFFAF73doldridgsprintca@24.69.255.211...
"dpr" <&^%@&^%.com> wrote in news:vvkgdv1buq46d0@corp.supernews.com:
"David Wise" <dwise1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad30b67a.0401051727.609e4b08@posting.google.com...
"Vicki" <vicpurk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<0_hKb.44905$HQ.42173@okepread02>...
"David Wise" <dwise1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad30b67a.0312240940.7e4e3540@posting.google.com...
Please tell me, since every other creationist has refused to do
so for the past 20 years that I've been asking this simple
question: What is this "evolutionISM" that you keep carrying on
about? Followed by this question:
And why do you keep confusing it with evolution?
Then after we finally get creationists to tell us what this
"evolutionISM" is, maybe, just maybe, we can get them to tell
us
what an "evolutionist" is.
So you agree that man did not evolve from the ancestors of the
present
day apes, and you also must agree that man did not evolve out of
some
primordial slime.
Humans and chimps share a common genetic ancestor. We don't have (or
at
least don't KNOW we have) a fossil specimen of that species yet and we
may never hane. That isn't how we know.
Being that there is no fossil record showing that we actually had a
common ancestor with the apes, or that we evolved out of slime,
evolution is no less a religion than those that believe in creation.
Straw man argument, coupled to a non sequitur. Just because we don't
know a thing one way doesn't mean we don't have evidence from other
areas.
The creation belief does acknowledge that man does evolve, as well
as
most every other species, it is where the beginning of the our
history
starts where there is a difference. Since neither can be proven, why
not just teach both views.
Humans and chimps have a recent (5-10mya) common genetic ancestor.
And the name of this species, and where may we see some fossils?
It doesn't have a name yet, nor can you see any fossils. We know it
exists because the genetics tell us that chimps and humans share such an
ancestor. Creationists keep telling me that these genetic similarities
of disfunction are the plan of some diabolical "creator" that they
imagine has been fiddling with the genes. I can't understand why these
people think that what they are worshipping is the creator of the
universe. It's a demon of their own creation! It's certainly not a
benevolent, intelligent deity. It's either totally incompetent or
malicious if it did what they say it did. And they want me to join them
in a campaign of lies against scientists and to worship this "deity" of
theirs?!? I think not!
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
.
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