| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Gactimus" |
| Date: |
05 Dec 2004 07:02:27 PM |
| Object: |
Evolutionism the religion |
I copied this from the talk.origins feed back (April 2000):
"How so? It has no deity. No worship. No priests. No sabbath. No
commandments. No inerrant doctrine-- it is constantly undergoing
revision. It has no reliance on the supernatural or miracles. It has
no penalties for unbelief. Belief in evolution carries no promises of
reward. It is acceptable for any deity, including Jehovah, to be
inserted in the forefront, taking credit for the progression of
evolution. How, then, is evolution a religion? Are other scientific
theories, such as the theory of relativity, also a religion? How does
one distinguish and determine this?"
A religion is essentially an attitude to the world as a whole. Thus
evolution, for example, may prove as powerful a principle to co-ordinate
men’s beliefs and hopes as God was in the past. Such ideas underlie the
various forms of Rationalism, the Ethical movement and scientific
Humanism.
Humanism: An outlook that places man and his concerns at the center of
interest. Modern Humanism, which does away with traditional Christianity,
is characterised by its faith in the power of human beings to create their
own future, collectively and personally.
In other words, evolution = religion. That is, people (not God) set
whatever rules they want. In practice, this usually becomes 'might makes
right', including the tyranny of the majority.
Evolutionists have demonstrated that Evolution is not a "Hebrew" religion.
Dictionary.com states the definition of 'religon' is :
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as
creator and governor of the universe.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a
spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious
devotion.
Let's measure Evolution to see if it fits any of those descriptions:
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as
creator and governor of the universe
In evolution, the 'creator' is Nature and Natural Causes. Natrual process
'created and governs' the universe. Evolutionists definately have a
reverence for Nature.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A religious order is a subdivision of a religious group. In the case of
Evolution, I would say the religous group is humanism.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a
spiritual leader.
Darwin was a humanist. He is the 'father of evolution'. I would say this
description fits.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious
devotion.
I would say that describes evolutionists (at least the ones I have
encountered here and elsewhere) very well.
By the way - just fun the fun of it - lets analize the quote:
Evolutionists Diety - Nature, man
Evolutionists worship - Darwin Day Celebrations
Evolutionists Priests - evolutionary scientists and theorists (such as
Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagin, etc)
Evolutionists Sabbath - earth day, darwin day, etc
Evolutionist commandments - laws of nature (such as laws of thermodynamics,
gravity, etc)
Evolutionist inerrant doctrine - man created in present form by nature and
chance not the God of the Bible
Evolution is constantly undergoing revision - glad to see you guys admit
that. (I recently read 'another' poster on this board claimed that there
would be revisions to the laws of gravity before there would be revisions
to the ToE.)
It has no reliance on the supernatural or miracles - Macro-evolution is a
miracle. It cannot be observed or duplicated.
No penalties for unbelief - oh yeah? Tell that to the countless creation
scientists who are ostracized and denied research grants (or remain
unpublished) because they espouse a Young Earth creation model.
Carries no promises of reward - Live your life the way YOU want... persue
immorality and selfish pleasure - do whatever makes you feel good - after
all, there is No biblical authority - there is no absolute right and wrong
because we are just a result of random chance, time and chemistry.
It is acceptable for any deity, including Jehovah, to be inserted in the
forefront, taking credit for the progression of evolution.
Any good Modern Humanist will tell you it's not important what you
believe, but the passion and degree to which you believe (have you ever
heard - it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you stand for
something). Basically evolution is a humanist religious order, and
humanists believe that they can choose what they want to believe because
they are ultimately only responsible to man and not God.
Are other scientific theories, such as the theory of relativity, also a
religion?
Theory of relativity 1) is mathmatically viable (evolution defies
mathmatical probability), 2) can be tested and observed by
experimentation, 3) requires no 'blind faith'
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| User: "Termite of Tempation" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism the religion |
06 Dec 2004 03:45:54 AM |
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"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:DcOsd.122658$%x.11815@okepread04...
I copied this from the talk.origins feed back (April 2000):
"How so? It has no deity. No worship. No priests. No sabbath. No
commandments. No inerrant doctrine-- it is constantly undergoing
revision. It has no reliance on the supernatural or miracles. It has
no penalties for unbelief. Belief in evolution carries no promises of
reward. It is acceptable for any deity, including Jehovah, to be
inserted in the forefront, taking credit for the progression of
evolution. How, then, is evolution a religion? Are other scientific
theories, such as the theory of relativity, also a religion? How does
one distinguish and determine this?"
A religion is essentially an attitude to the world as a whole.
That's not what the dictionary definition says. In fact, you posted the
dictionary definition below.
Thus
evolution, for example, may prove as powerful a principle to co-ordinate
men’s beliefs and hopes as God was in the past. Such ideas underlie the
various forms of Rationalism, the Ethical movement and scientific
Humanism.
Except the evolution as a "belief" is descriptive, not proscriptive - in
other words, rather than telling us how we should behave, "believing in
evolution" simply means that one believes that a certain series of events
happened in a certain order. Thus belief in evolution can never be a true
replacement for God, because its central tenets do not involve running
around telling people how bad they are and that they'll go to hell if they
don't stop.
Humanism: An outlook that places man and his concerns at the center of
interest. Modern Humanism, which does away with traditional Christianity,
is characterised by its faith in the power of human beings to create their
own future, collectively and personally.
In other words, evolution = religion.
You haven't demonstrated that at all.
That is, people (not God) set
whatever rules they want. In practice, this usually becomes 'might makes
right', including the tyranny of the majority.
Or "democracy", as it's sometimes known. Besides, if any belief system was
guilty of the "might makes right" mindset, surely they are the ones that
allow God to make the rules.
Evolutionists have demonstrated that Evolution is not a "Hebrew" religion.
Which "evolutionists", and how did they do this?
Dictionary.com states the definition of 'religon' is :
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as
creator and governor of the universe.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a
spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious
devotion.
Let's measure Evolution to see if it fits any of those descriptions:
Yes, let's.
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as
creator and governor of the universe
In evolution, the 'creator' is Nature and Natural Causes. Natrual process
'created and governs' the universe. Evolutionists definately have a
reverence for Nature.
Exactly - ruling out reverence for 'supernatural' powers. So this definition
doesn't apply to evolution.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A religious order is a subdivision of a religious group. In the case of
Evolution, I would say the religous group is humanism.
a) Evolution has no relation to humanism. One is a philosophy (or religion,
if you insist) the other is a scientific hypothesis.
b) 2 is vaguely circular definition anyway, used to describe the sense of
the word religion in the following context - "My religion tell me to kill
bad people."
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a
spiritual leader.
Darwin was a humanist. He is the 'father of evolution'. I would say this
description fits.
Darwin was in no sense a spiritual leader, because he had no spiritual
teachings and none of his evolutionary work had any spiritual component. If
you wish to dispute this, you could start by quoting some of Darwin's
spiritual guidance to his followers.
The fact that Darwin was a humanist (if he was) is incidental to his belief
in evolution - the two are not related. It's like saying that gravity is a
religion because Newton believed he was God.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious
devotion.
I would say that describes evolutionists (at least the ones I have
encountered here and elsewhere) very well.
Yes, definition 4 makes almost anything a religion - stamp-collecting,
fishing, picking your nose, posting inane screeds on USENET... the list is
endless. But the definition is broad enough to be meaningless, as I hope
I've just demonstrated.
By the way - just fun the fun of it - lets analize the quote:
Let's not.
[snip]
Are other scientific theories, such as the theory of relativity, also a
religion?
Theory of relativity 1) is mathmatically viable (evolution defies
mathmatical probability)
How? And don't start wibbling about 747s in a junkyard...
, 2) can be tested and observed by
experimentation
As evolution can.
3) requires no 'blind faith'
Same as 2.
Duncan
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| User: "Elf M. Sternberg" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism the religion |
06 Dec 2004 04:28:27 PM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> writes:
A religion is essentially an attitude to the world as a whole. Thus
evolution, for example, may prove as powerful a principle to co-ordinate
men’s beliefs and hopes as God was in the past. Such ideas underlie the
various forms of Rationalism, the Ethical movement and scientific
Humanism.
So would a fundamental belief that life without a car is not
worth living. Any creative fool can take any principle and create with
in an "attitude about the world as a whole."
The essential problem is that evolution is a science. Your
point that it "defies mathematical probability" is not supported by the
evidence, and no professional biologist currently at work in the field
of biology supports this position. All religions require a commitment
to the faith *before* one previews the evidence and makes conclusions
concurrent with the faith; science, on the other hand, has adopted
methodological naturalism because it *worked*, and evolution *works*
just as well.
In evolution, the 'creator' is Nature and Natural Causes. Natrual process
'created and governs' the universe. Evolutionists definately have a
reverence for Nature.
Do they? I have no "reverence for Nature"; Nature is a cruel
system that breaks the backs of men on the wheel of chance. I count
myself as one who accepts that evolution is the only acceptable
explanation for the world as it stands today.
Elf
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism the religion |
06 Dec 2004 12:06:21 AM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in
news:DcOsd.122658$%x.11815@okepread04:
I copied this from the talk.origins feed back (April 2000):
"How so? It has no deity. No worship. No priests. No sabbath. No
commandments. No inerrant doctrine-- it is constantly undergoing
revision. It has no reliance on the supernatural or miracles. It
has no penalties for unbelief. Belief in evolution carries no
promises of reward. It is acceptable for any deity, including
Jehovah, to be inserted in the forefront, taking credit for the
progression of evolution. How, then, is evolution a religion? Are
other scientific theories, such as the theory of relativity, also
a religion? How does one distinguish and determine this?"
A religion is essentially an attitude to the world as a whole. Thus
evolution, for example, may prove as powerful a principle to
co-ordinate men’s beliefs and hopes as God was in the past. Such ideas
underlie the various forms of Rationalism, the Ethical movement and
scientific Humanism.
If evolution is a religion, then it has a huge advantage over the other,
competing religions. Its main principle tenet is something that is
actually observed.
Humanism: An outlook that places man and his concerns at the center of
interest. Modern Humanism, which does away with traditional
Christianity, is characterised by its faith in the power of human
beings to create their own future, collectively and personally.
Modern humanism? It finds its roots in the Renaissance, when
philosophers began to overthrow the medieval scholastics' overdependence
on the ancient writings of the Greek philosophers and scripture (as they
then interpreted it). However, far from doing away with traditional
Christianity, it has succeeded in somewhat forcing it back to its roots.
It is the rather UNtraditional Christianity of some of the more radical
reformation sects that has found difficulty with it.
In other words, evolution = religion. That is, people (not God) set
whatever rules they want. In practice, this usually becomes 'might
makes right', including the tyranny of the majority.
Sorry, evolution is not humanism. Nor does it set any moral rules. Just
because something happens in nature does not make it either right or
wrong morally. There is no evil in the gravity that pulls a man off a
cliff, though there IS evil in the man who pushes him.
Evolutionists have demonstrated that Evolution is not a "Hebrew"
religion.
Indeed, it's not ANY kind of religion.
Dictionary.com states the definition of 'religon' is :
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers
regarded as
creator and governor of the universe.
And science is not religion and therefore does not teach such belief (or
its lack). Evolution is science.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of
a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious
devotion.
Let's measure Evolution to see if it fits any of those descriptions:
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers
regarded as
creator and governor of the universe
In evolution, the 'creator' is Nature and Natural Causes. Natrual
process 'created and governs' the universe. Evolutionists definately
have a reverence for Nature.
No, evolution discusses natural change, not creation. Whether scientists
revere nature in the same way YOU revere your own ego is a much deeper
question. But I tend to think not.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A religious order is a subdivision of a religious group. In the case
of Evolution, I would say the religous group is humanism.
Wrong. Many of the scientists who work in the field of evolution are not
humanists. And humanism is not, in and of itself, antithetical to
Christianity.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of
a spiritual leader.
Darwin was a humanist. He is the 'father of evolution'. I would say
this description fits.
Darwin spoke very little about spiritual values in his scientific work.
Nor is his opinion treated in any way as that of a prophet or high
priest. He was wrong on a number of points and no attempt is being made
to uphold those errors the way religious sects often do with their
prophets. Instead, he is simply treated as an historical figure who
discovered and elucidated certain properties of the natural world.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious
devotion.
I would say that describes evolutionists (at least the ones I have
encountered here and elsewhere) very well.
It would also describe you as a religious anti-evolutionist, since most
of your "preaching" seems to be an effort to put down Darwin and
"evolutionists" rather than to put forward any kind of alternative
religion. In fact, one might guess that you HAVE no religion whatever,
other than that of attacking science.
By the way - just fun the fun of it - lets analize the quote:
Evolutionists Diety - Nature, man
Nope. Scientists (including those who accept evolution) are members of
pretty well all of the religions of mankind (with the possible exceptions
of some very tiny cults).
Evolutionists worship - Darwin Day Celebrations
Nope. That's not a religious festival. No gods are invoked.
Evolutionists Priests - evolutionary scientists and theorists (such as
Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagin, etc)
How is a scientist a priest? They wear no fancy vestments, unless you
count lab coats when in a lab and they don't even have a consistent
theology, but rather a growing body of knowledge that is continually
checked against the real world through observation and experiment.
Evolutionists Sabbath - earth day, darwin day, etc
You're stretching here....hardly any great number of scientists do
anything special on these days.
Evolutionist commandments - laws of nature (such as laws of
thermodynamics, gravity, etc)
Laws of nature are very persistent observations, often of a mathematical
nature. They may reflect laws of God (implanted in the universe at
creation according to Christian theology) but, if so, this is no
different from the teaching of the TRADITIONAL Church.
Evolutionist inerrant doctrine - man created in present form by nature
and chance not the God of the Bible
Uh, no scientific theory is inerrant. But scientific observations don't
go away because nutty religious cults and their false prophets are
embarrassed by them.
Evolution is constantly undergoing revision - glad to see you guys
admit that. (I recently read 'another' poster on this board claimed
that there would be revisions to the laws of gravity before there
would be revisions to the ToE.)
That's right. SCIENCE is always undergoing revision. That does not mean
that it is always totally wrong.
It has no reliance on the supernatural or miracles - Macro-evolution
is a miracle. It cannot be observed or duplicated.
Incorrect. The unit of macroevolution is speciation and it can be
observed and caused.
No penalties for unbelief - oh yeah? Tell that to the countless
creation scientists who are ostracized and denied research grants (or
remain unpublished) because they espouse a Young Earth creation model.
Oh, go ***** up a rope. The tiny handful of people with scientific
degrees who prostitute themselves to the fraud called "creation science"
are ROLLING in money compared with most working scientists. To get the
kind of budgets people like Ken Ham play around with, you have to win a
Nobel and even then it's not easy.
Carries no promises of reward - Live your life the way YOU want...
persue immorality and selfish pleasure - do whatever makes you feel
good - after all, there is No biblical authority - there is no
absolute right and wrong because we are just a result of random
chance, time and chemistry.
That's right. Science is not about morality. If you end up in mid air
1000 feet above the ground you will fall and die. Gravity is not evil on
that account. Evolution teaches us nothing about the Bible except that,
as interpreted by the false prophets of the anti-evolution cults, it is
wrong about some scientific matters that we can test. However, note that
is the attempt to use it as a scientific textbook in the first place that
engenders such false interpretations. The fact that the interpretations
are DEMONSTRABLY FALSE TO FACT only shows that the interpreters are not
the holy people they claim to be.
It is acceptable for any deity, including Jehovah, to be inserted in
the forefront, taking credit for the progression of evolution.
This is true, since, like all other natural phenomena dealt with by
science, there is no RELIGIOUS claim about their underlying causes.
Any good Modern Humanist will tell you it's not important what you
believe, but the passion and degree to which you believe (have you
ever heard - it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you stand
for something). Basically evolution is a humanist religious order,
and humanists believe that they can choose what they want to believe
because they are ultimately only responsible to man and not God.
It's VERY important that you NOT believe people who tell you to lie about
science in God's name. At the moment you seem to be one of those people
and should, therefore, not be believed.
Are other scientific theories, such as the theory of relativity, also
a religion?
Theory of relativity 1) is mathmatically viable (evolution defies
mathmatical probability), 2) can be tested and observed by
experimentation, 3) requires no 'blind faith'
Evolution does not defie mathematical probability, liar.
God said "THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS."
You continually, obdurately and maliciously bear false witness in God's
name. Therefore I brand you a liar, a heretic, and an excommunicate.
Christians should shun you unless you are seeking absolution for these
sins.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
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| User: "Chris H" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism the religion |
06 Dec 2004 12:14:11 PM |
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Gactimus wrote:
[snip redefinition of religion and evolution so evolution is a religion]
By the way - just fun the fun of it - lets analize the quote:
Evolutionists Diety - Nature, man
Evolutionists worship - Darwin Day Celebrations
Evolutionists Priests - evolutionary scientists and theorists (such as
Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagin, etc)
Evolutionists Sabbath - earth day, darwin day, etc
Evolutionist commandments - laws of nature (such as laws of thermodynamics,
gravity, etc)
This is really neat, I am definitely signing up for this evolution
religion. I mean how difficult is is going to be to sin when to do so
you need to violate the laws of thermodynamics?
Evolutionist inerrant doctrine - man created in present form by nature and
chance not the God of the Bible
Evolution is constantly undergoing revision - glad to see you guys admit
that. (I recently read 'another' poster on this board claimed that there
would be revisions to the laws of gravity before there would be revisions
to the ToE.)
It has no reliance on the supernatural or miracles - Macro-evolution is a
miracle. It cannot be observed or duplicated.
No penalties for unbelief - oh yeah? Tell that to the countless creation
scientists who are ostracized and denied research grants (or remain
unpublished) because they espouse a Young Earth creation model.
Carries no promises of reward - Live your life the way YOU want... persue
immorality and selfish pleasure - do whatever makes you feel good - after
all, there is No biblical authority - there is no absolute right and wrong
because we are just a result of random chance, time and chemistry.
It is acceptable for any deity, including Jehovah, to be inserted in the
forefront, taking credit for the progression of evolution.
Any good Modern Humanist will tell you it's not important what you
believe, but the passion and degree to which you believe (have you ever
heard - it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you stand for
something). Basically evolution is a humanist religious order, and
humanists believe that they can choose what they want to believe because
they are ultimately only responsible to man and not God.
Are other scientific theories, such as the theory of relativity, also a
religion?
Theory of relativity 1) is mathmatically viable (evolution defies
mathmatical probability), 2) can be tested and observed by
experimentation, 3) requires no 'blind faith'
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism the religion |
06 Dec 2004 01:19:07 PM |
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In alt.fan.cecil-adams Chris H <chris@no.none> wrote:
Gactimus wrote:
[snip redefinition of religion and evolution so evolution is a religion]
By the way - just fun the fun of it - lets analize the quote:
Evolutionists Diety - Nature, man
Evolutionists worship - Darwin Day Celebrations
Evolutionists Priests - evolutionary scientists and theorists (such as
Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagin, etc)
Evolutionists Sabbath - earth day, darwin day, etc
Evolutionist commandments - laws of nature (such as laws of thermodynamics,
gravity, etc)
This is really neat, I am definitely signing up for this evolution
religion. I mean how difficult is is going to be to sin when to do so
you need to violate the laws of thermodynamics?
Entropy is a law. Cleaning is, therefore, a sin.
VACUUM and you GO TO HELL.
Reread Pamela Zoline, "The Heat Death of the Universe", reprinted in
Women of Wonder: The Classic Years, Harcourt Brace, 1995. Insanity and
death ultimately await everyone who cleans. DIRTY HOUSE, CLEAN SOUL.
--
Huey
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism the religion |
06 Dec 2004 01:22:28 PM |
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Gactimus wrote:
I copied this from the talk.origins feed back (April 2000):
"How so? It has no deity. No worship. No priests. No sabbath. No
commandments. No inerrant doctrine-- it is constantly undergoing
revision. It has no rel iance on the supernatural or miracles.
It has
no penalties for unbelief. Belief in evolution carries no
promises of
reward. It is acceptable for any deity, including Jehovah, to be
inserted in the forefront, taking credit for the prog ression of
evolution. How, then, is evolution a religion? Are other
scientific
theories, such as the theory of relativity, also a religion? How
does
one distinguish and determine this?"
A religion is essentially an attitude t o the world as a whole.
Oh dear. You left this out from the above quorted
material:
"This sort of statement is merely a ploy by
creationists to get evolution removed from public
schools on the grounds that it is a religion, and not
science. Many peop le of of all different faiths accept
evolution. It is NOT an atheistic conspiracy. Many of
the scientists working on evolution are Christians. Of
Americans who accept evolution, the vast majority of
them are Christians."
-=3D End Quote =3D-
I guess quoting that part of the reply would have
tossed chilly water on your response, so I can
understand why you left it out. However, it is still
not exactly ethical. Also, from the same feedback
column (April 00) we also find this response (which you
al so saw fit to ignore):
"What makes you think that evolution requires a denial
of Jesus Christ? There are many Christian
evolutionists. Here is a list of denominations which
accept the truth of evolution:
American Jewish Congress
Episcopal Church, General Convention
Lexington Alliance of Religious Leaders
Lutheran World Federation
Roman Catholic Church
Unitarian-Universalist Association
United Church Board for Homeland Ministries
United Methodist Church
United Presbyterian Church
-=3D End Quote =3D-
Oops! More cold water!
Ya know, getting it wrong isn't so bad. We all do that
from time to time. Committing error is not a character
flaw. No, the character flaw is in NOT CARING when one
gets it wrong. It is in seeking out and twisting the
evidence (or fabricating it) to fit wishful beliefs and
in holding those beliefs above a desire to know the
truth.
"Sit down before fact as a little child, be prepared to
give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly
wherever and whatever abysses nature leads, or you will
learn nothing."- Thomas Huxley
Thus
evolution, for example, may prove as powerful a principle to co-ordi
nate
men's beliefs and hopes as God was in the past.
Also from the April 00 Feedback:
Comment: Since evolution is only a scientific theory,
and since scientific theories are meant to be tested
until proven to be correct or incorrect, how can
evolution, which has never been proven to be correct,
be the foundation for a belief system?
Response
From: John Wilkins
Aut hor of: Evolution and Philosophy
Response:
Indeed it is not. It is a scientific theory (or more
exactly, a set of theories) that forms the foundation
for a number of research programs in science, and which
explains a lot of what we see in the living world.
Claims that it is the basis of a belief system are due
to those whose "scientific" creationism is a belief
system. They need to make sure that others think that
their nonscience and science are on a par, because
everyone agrees creationism is not science.
See the "Metaphysics" part of the Evolution and
Philosophy FAQ.
Watch that "only" a scientific theory. All scientific
knowledge is theoretical, but we still man age to save
millions from death by disease and cancer, send space
probes to other planets even if they then crash, and
build some impressive objects. Being "just" a theory is
a very powerful thing indeed.
-=3D End Quote =3D-
Maybe you need to ask yourself why it is so easy to
devastate your many claims.
Such ideas underl ie the
various forms of Rationalism, the Ethical movement and scientific
Humanism.
Humanism: An outlook that places man and his concerns at the center o
f
interest. Modern Humanism, which does away with traditional
Christianity,
is character ised by its faith in the power of human beings to create
their
own future, collectiv ely and personally.
In other words, evolution =3D religion. That is, peo ple (not God) set
whatever rules they want. In practice, this usually becomes 'might
make s
right', including the tyranny of the majority.
Evolutionists have demonstra ted that Evolution is not a "Hebrew"
religion.
Dictionary.com stat es the definition of 'religon' is :
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural po wer or powers
regarded as
creator and governor of the universe.
2. The life or c ondition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of
a
spiritual leader.
4. A cause, princ iple, or activity pursued with zeal or
conscientious
devotion.
Let's measure E volution to see if it fits any of those descriptions:
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers
regarded as
creator and governor of the universe
In evolution, the 'creator' is Nature and Natural Causes. Natrual
process
'created and governs' the universe. Evolutionists definately have a
reverence for Nature.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A religious order is a subdivision of a religious group. In the case
of
Evolution, I would say the religous group is humanism.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of
a
spiritual leader.
Darwin was a humanist. He is the 'father of evolution'. I would say
this
description fits.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or
conscientious
devotion.
I would say that describes evolutionists (at least the ones I have
en countered here and elsewhere) very well.
By the way - just fun the fun of it - lets analize the quote:
Evolutionists Diety - Nature, man
Evolutionist s worship - Darwin Day Celebrations
Evolutionists Priests - evolutionary scientists and theorists (such
as
Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagin, etc)
Evolutionists Sabbath - earth day, darwin day, etc
Evolutionist commandments - laws of nature (such as la ws of
thermodynamics,
gravity, etc)
Evolutionist inerrant doctrine - man created in present form by
nature and
chance not the God of the Bible
Evolution is constantly undergoing revision - glad to see you guys
admit
that. (I recently read 'another' poster on this board claimed that
there
would be revisions to the laws of gravity before there would be
revisions
to the ToE.)
It has no reliance on the supernatural or miracles - Macro-evolution
is a
miracle. It cannot be observed or duplicated.
No penalties for unbelief - oh yeah? Tell that to the countless
creation
scientists who are ostracized and denied research grants (or remain
unpublished) because they espouse a Young Earth creation model.
Carries no promises of re ward - Live your life the way YOU want...
persue
immorality and selfish pleasure - d o whatever makes you feel good -
after
all, there is No biblical authority - there is no absolute right and
wrong
because we are just a result of random chance, t ime and chemistry.
It is acceptable for any deity, including Jehovah, to be inserted in
the
forefront, taking credit for the progression of evolution.
Any good Modern Humanist will tell you it's not important what you
believe, but the pas sion and degree to which you believe (have you
ever
heard - it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you stand for
something). Basically evolution is a humanist religious o rder, and
humanists believe that they can choose what they want to bel ieve
because
they are ultimately only responsible to man and not God.
Are o ther scientific theories, such as the theory of relativity,
also a
religion?
Theory of relativity 1) is mathmatically viable (evolution defies
mathmatical probability), 2) can be tested and observed by
experimentation, 3) requires no 'blind faith'
)=E0
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| User: "Richard Smol" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism the religion |
06 Dec 2004 02:43:12 PM |
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Gactimus wrote:
I copied this from the talk.origins feed back (April 2000):
"How so? It has no deity. No worship. No priests. No sabbath. No
commandments. No inerrant doctrine-- it is constantly undergoing
revision. It has no reliance on the supernatural or miracles. It has
no penalties for unbelief. Belief in evolution carries no promises of
reward. It is acceptable for any deity, including Jehovah, to be
inserted in the forefront, taking credit for the progression of
evolution. How, then, is evolution a religion? Are other scientific
theories, such as the theory of relativity, also a religion? How does
one distinguish and determine this?"
A religion is essentially an attitude to the world as a whole.
Dead on arrival.
<- snip rest of tripe ->
RS
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| User: "Wolf Kirchmeir" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutionism the religion |
06 Dec 2004 09:48:02 AM |
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Gactimus wrote:
I copied this from the talk.origins feed back (April 2000):
"How so? It has no deity. No worship. No priests. No sabbath. No
commandments. No inerrant doctrine-- it is constantly undergoing
revision. It has no reliance on the supernatural or miracles. It has
no penalties for unbelief. Belief in evolution carries no promises of
reward. It is acceptable for any deity, including Jehovah, to be
inserted in the forefront, taking credit for the progression of
evolution. How, then, is evolution a religion? Are other scientific
theories, such as the theory of relativity, also a religion? How does
one distinguish and determine this?"
A religion is essentially an attitude to the world as a whole. [...]
That's faith, not religion. The passage you quote summarsies the
features of religion as distinct from faith. Faith may or may not
animate a person's religion. Many people with faith have no religion at all.
BTW, in the OT there is ample evidence that God/Yahwe does not like
religion at all.
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