| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"IKnowHimDoYou" |
| Date: |
03 Jan 2004 05:47:06 PM |
| Object: |
Evolutions Hope |
Evolutions Hope
Evolutionary religionists(including theistic and progressive ones) hope
that rare benificial mutations may occur in a population of organisms and
will be preserved, by natural selection, gradually(given millions and
millions of years) resulting in a higher, better organized, and more
complex kind of organism. This is a remarkable type of reasoning,
apparently acceptable in evolutionary religionists speculations, though
not at all permitted by more prosaic statistical and scientific analysis.
To accomplish all this specualtion the first and second laws of
thermodynamics need to be laid aside as well as any idea of order or
information theory. But, not to worry, the evolutionary religionists have
high hopes and undaunting faith that this is accomplished on a routine
basis. This, of course, is in spite of the fact that these mutations
called for are a perfect illustration of the entropy principle in
operation. An accumulation of mutations, in either an individual or a
population, must inevitably result in a decrease of organization(which is
what we actually see in the real world) in that individual or species and,
if continued long enough, in its death. Thermodynamics surely applies at
all levels of biological systems and processes. Trying to work around
these laws to say evolution is a "fact" simply shows no real understanding
or comprehension of real-world science. And the fact is that no truly
benificial mutations have ever been demonstrated anywhere at any time.
The evolution model(opinion) requires, no demands, a vast increase in
organized complexity over the ages, from primeval chaotic particles to
present-day complex people(chaos to complex order). On the other hand,
the entropy priciple in science can be considered as a "prediction" from
the biblical doctrines of special creation and the subsequent devine curse
on the creation(order to choas)ending in total dissolution.
I will be proved wrong if tonite my 85 Ford organizes itself into a 2004
Rolls Royce by morning-without any outside help.....
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| User: "Tom" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutions Hope |
03 Jan 2004 08:30:28 PM |
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"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-0301041547060001@pm3-01.kalama.com...
Evolutions Hope
Evolutionary religionists(including theistic and progressive ones) hope
that rare benificial mutations may occur in a population of organisms and
will be preserved, by natural selection, gradually(given millions and
millions of years) resulting in a higher, better organized, and more
complex kind of organism. This is a remarkable type of reasoning,
apparently acceptable in evolutionary religionists speculations, though
not at all permitted by more prosaic statistical and scientific analysis.
To accomplish all this specualtion the first and second laws of
thermodynamics need to be laid aside as well as any idea of order or
information theory. But, not to worry, the evolutionary religionists have
high hopes and undaunting faith that this is accomplished on a routine
basis. This, of course, is in spite of the fact that these mutations
called for are a perfect illustration of the entropy principle in
operation. An accumulation of mutations, in either an individual or a
population, must inevitably result in a decrease of organization(which is
what we actually see in the real world) in that individual or species and,
if continued long enough, in its death. Thermodynamics surely applies at
all levels of biological systems and processes. Trying to work around
these laws to say evolution is a "fact" simply shows no real understanding
or comprehension of real-world science. And the fact is that no truly
benificial mutations have ever been demonstrated anywhere at any time.
The evolution model(opinion) requires, no demands, a vast increase in
organized complexity over the ages, from primeval chaotic particles to
present-day complex people(chaos to complex order). On the other hand,
the entropy priciple in science can be considered as a "prediction" from
the biblical doctrines of special creation and the subsequent devine curse
on the creation(order to choas)ending in total dissolution.
I will be proved wrong if tonite my 85 Ford organizes itself into a 2004
Rolls Royce by morning-without any outside help.....
Tom: What an absolute dunce. YM1, why don't you cut out the masquerade and
quit.
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| User: "Bup" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutions Hope |
04 Jan 2004 07:25:33 AM |
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"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-0301041547060001@pm3-01.kalama.com...
| Evolutions Hope
| I will be proved wrong if tonite my 85 Ford organizes itself into a 2004
| Rolls Royce by morning-without any outside help.....
Pray and it will be given to you. So instead of leaving it to chance that
your Ford reorganizes itself into a Rolls, simply have faith and pray for
it. And as sure as there's an Old Testament Creationist God your will have a
new Rolls to Cadillac about town in!
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| User: "Thore Schmechtig" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutions Hope |
04 Jan 2004 02:25:39 AM |
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Evolutionary religionists(including theistic and progressive ones) hope
that rare benificial mutations may occur in a population of organisms and
will be preserved, by natural selection, gradually(given millions and
millions of years) resulting in a higher, better organized, and more
complex kind of organism. This is a remarkable type of reasoning,
apparently acceptable in evolutionary religionists speculations, though
not at all permitted by more prosaic statistical and scientific analysis.
You wouldn't recognize science if it hit you with a sledge hammer.
By the way, how much is 12 - 9?
UNWRITTEN RULES OF FUNDAMENTALISM
1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical,
psychological,
or verbal, at all times as defensive
5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
into a corner in an argument
6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
error and correction as part of God's personal plan for you and not as a
something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
verbally and secretly to God himself
8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of God's plans
for
the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of Gods will
for
the betterment of mankind.
9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
oppose all such information through classification of such information
in
a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as left wing
propaganda)
11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
complex and there are shades of grey
12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to
forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you
don't
have that right anyhow.
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| User: "The_Sage" |
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| Title: Christians Hope |
03 Jan 2004 11:37:33 PM |
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Reply to article by: (IKnowHimDoYou)
Date written: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 15:47:06 -0800
MsgID:<IKnowHim-0301041547060001@pm3-01.kalama.com>
Evolutions Hope
Evolutionary religionists
Those are called creationists.
To accomplish all this specualtion the first and second laws of
thermodynamics need to be laid aside as well as any idea of order or
information theory. But, not to worry, the evolutionary religionists have
high hopes and undaunting faith that this is accomplished on a routine
basis. This, of course, is in spite of the fact that these mutations
called for are a perfect illustration of the entropy principle in
operation. An accumulation of mutations, in either an individual or a
population, must inevitably result in a decrease of organization(which is
what we actually see in the real world) in that individual or species and,
if continued long enough, in its death. Thermodynamics surely applies at
all levels of biological systems and processes. Trying to work around
these laws to say evolution is a "fact" simply shows no real understanding
or comprehension of real-world science. And the fact is that no truly
benificial mutations have ever been demonstrated anywhere at any time.
This is obviously ignorant accusation rather than actual fact. As my textbook on
thermodynamics states, "A second point of view to be made regarding
entropy is that frequently entropy is associated with probability. From this
point of view an irreversible increase in entropy would be associated with a
change of state from a less probable state to a more probable state". Take
notice of the fact that it does not say anything about going from more complex
to less complex because isn't it obvious that everything around us is proceeding
from less complex to more complex all the time? For example, hydrogen atoms are
combining together to become the more complicated helium atom in stars all the
time. Complex crystals are forming from their less ordered constituents deep
within the earth's crust as we speak. And more complicated lifeforms constantly
evolve from simpler lifeforms because the odds are that they will. All of these
examples I mentioned happen because probability favors them happening and not
because the second law of thermodynamics supposedly is being violated. Two
hydrogen atoms are more likely to combine together than a helium atom is to
split apart. Many minerals are more likely to form crystals under heat and
pressure than become more amorphous. And life is more likely to develop and
evolve than is not to. Everything is proceeding from less probable states to
more probable states, without ever violating the second law of thermodynamics as
creationists ignorantly proclaim.
I will be proved wrong if tonite my 85 Ford organizes itself into a 2004
Rolls Royce by morning-without any outside help.....
You have already been proven wrong since that isn't what evolution posits. Now
let's be fair and honest by discussing your alternative to evolution, the theory
of God Did It...
Those who profess to be Christians and adhere to the doctrine of a supernatural
creation have a sad little god who cannot deliver. They worship what they know
not and what turns out to be a mixture of inaccurate science and superstition,
which is of course stupidity.
Their little god of a supernatural creation is such an idiot that the had to
say, "So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all
the beasts of the field. But for Adam no suitable helper was found" (Gen 2:20).
Oh really now? God had to search for a "helper" before discovering that He
forgot to make one? If Adam had been created with sexual organs, what would
their original intended purpose be if it wasn't to have sex with a "helper"?
God ain't the brightest God in the universe, is He? Duh!
Then there are the thorny issues of evolution that Christians cringe in fear
when mentioned, issues like why do men have nipples or why do humans have tail
bones (otherwise called the coccyx).
The simple biological-evolutionary answer to the nipple problem is that as
embryos, we are all structurally female at first and only later on during fetal
development do the male hormones kick in and modify the feminine genital
structures into the masculine. Nevertheless we men are still left with useless
breast tissue and nipples, which never get the hormonal signal at puberty to
develop into functioning organs. The whole thing seems a messy and
cobbled-up system for producing two sexes, which means if a God designed this
kluge, He is clearly an incompetent God.
As for the coccyx, x-rays demonstrate it most certainly looks just like a
rudimentary tail. Certainly it serves no legitimate purpose and if you've ever
broken tail bone, you've probably wondered why a God would be stupid enough to
create such a useless source of potential agony.
But then the mindless Christians will say, "Satan created all of these things in
order to deceive us into believing in an old earth". If so, then obviously Satan
did a better job at his re-creation then God did at his creation. Satan left no
stone unturned in his effort to hide the evidence of a creation, while the best
that God could do was dedicate two chapters to it in an ancient textbook filled
with contradictions and inaccuracies. Satan must be not only more intelligent
than God, he must also be more powerful.
Talk about unrealistic, why would a God, any intelligent God, create the world
complete with built-in weathering patterns, millions of years of sedimentary
deposits, crude-oil deposits, and fossils...all in six days? Why? What would be
the point in making the earth look as though it actually were 4.5 billion years
old?
Yes, the even sadder little God of creationism cannot help them for He obviously
is too stupid to help Himself. The question is: Why sacrifice your mind just so
you can believe in that religious nonsense?
"For God so tenderly loved the world, that He will fry you to a crisp in Hell
for all of eternity, if you don't believe He so tenderly loved the world"
The Sage
=============================================================
My Home Page : http://members.cox.net/the.sage
"Little minds are interested in the extraordinary; great
minds in the commonplace"
-- Elbert Hubbard, ROYCROFT DICTIONARY AND BOOK OF EPIGRAMS
=============================================================
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| User: "elmer bataitis" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutions Hope |
03 Jan 2004 06:20:42 PM |
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IKnowNothingDoYou wrote:
Evolutions Hope
Evolutionary religionists(including theistic and progressive ones) hope
that rare benificial mutations may occur in a population of organisms and
will be preserved, by natural selection,.....
"J Bacteriol." 2002 Jan;184(2):344-9. "Directed evolution of toluene
ortho-monooxygenase for enhanced 1-naphthol synthesis and chlorinated
ethene degradation." By Canada KA, Iwashita S, Shim H, Wood TK.
Department of Chemical Engineering, University of Connecticut, Storrs,
Connecticut 06269-3222, USA.
"Trichloroethylene (TCE) is the most frequently detected groundwater
contaminant, and 1-naphthol is an important chemical manufacturing
intermediate. Directed evolution was used to increase the activity of
toluene ortho-monooxygenase (TOM) of Burkholderia cepacia G4 for both
chlorinated ethenes and naphthalene oxidation. When expressed in
Escherichia coli, the variant TOM-Green degraded TCE (2.5 +/- 0.3 versus
1.39 +/- 0.05 nmol/min/mg of protein), 1,1-dichloroethylene, and
trans-dichloroethylene more rapidly. Whole cells expressing TOM-Green
synthesized 1-naphthol at a rate that was six times faster than that
mediated by the wild-type enzyme at a concentration of 0.1 mM (0.19 +/-
0.03 versus 0.029 +/- 0.004 nmol/min/mg of protein), whereas at 5 mM,
the mutant enzyme was active (0.07 +/- 0.03 nmol/min/mg of protein) in
contrast to the wild-type enzyme, which had no detectable activity. The
regiospecificity of TOM-Green was unchanged, with greater than 97%
1-naphthol formed. The beneficial mutation of TOM-Green is the
substitution of valine to alanine in position 106 of the alpha-subunit
of the hydroxylase, which appears to act as a smaller "gate" to the
diiron active center. This hypothesis was supported by the ability of E.
coli expressing TOM-Green to oxidize the three-ring compounds,
phenanthrene, fluorene, and anthracene faster than the wild-type enzyme.
These results show clearly that random, in vitro protein engineering can
be used to improve a large multisubunit protein for multiple functions,
including environmental restoration and green chemistry."
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| User: "Matt Silberstein matts2nopam@ix netcom.nospamcom" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutions Hope |
04 Jan 2004 10:39:20 AM |
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In alt.religion.christianity I read this message from
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou):
Evolutions Hope
Evolutionary religionists(including theistic and progressive ones) hope
that rare benificial mutations may occur in a population of organisms and
will be preserved, by natural selection, gradually(given millions and
millions of years) resulting in a higher, better organized, and more
complex kind of organism.
hope <> observe. HTH. HAND.
This is a remarkable type of reasoning,
apparently acceptable in evolutionary religionists speculations, though
not at all permitted by more prosaic statistical and scientific analysis.
Any time you wish to discuss the mathematics of population
genetics I am willing. Remarkably enough the scientists involved
actually publish their statistical reasoning.
To accomplish all this specualtion the first and second laws of
thermodynamics need to be laid aside as well as any idea of order or
information theory.
Nope, but you don't seem bound by any notion of truthfulness. If
there is anyone out their who finds some kind of useful value in
this liar's post I am quite willing to discuss it with them. I
don't see any value to put yet more effort into IKHDY as he seems
unwilling to listen.
But, not to worry, the evolutionary religionists have
high hopes and undaunting faith that this is accomplished on a routine
basis.
Again, hope is not the same as observation. The actual science of
evolution does not propose any violation of any scientific laws.
And if we observe something it does not violate any actual laws.
This, of course, is in spite of the fact that these mutations
called for are a perfect illustration of the entropy principle in
operation.
Excepting, of course, that they occur.
[snip]
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| User: "Alberich" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutions Hope |
03 Jan 2004 05:47:20 PM |
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On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 15:47:06 -0800,
(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
Evolutions Hope
Evolutionary religionists(including theistic and progressive ones) hope
that rare benificial mutations may occur in a population of organisms and
will be preserved, by natural selection, gradually(given millions and
millions of years) resulting in a higher, better organized, and more
complex kind of organism. This is a remarkable type of reasoning,
apparently acceptable in evolutionary religionists speculations, though
not at all permitted by more prosaic statistical and scientific analysis.
To accomplish all this specualtion the first and second laws of
thermodynamics need to be laid aside as well as any idea of order or
information theory. But, not to worry, the evolutionary religionists have
high hopes and undaunting faith that this is accomplished on a routine
basis. This, of course, is in spite of the fact that these mutations
called for are a perfect illustration of the entropy principle in
operation. An accumulation of mutations, in either an individual or a
population, must inevitably result in a decrease of organization(which is
what we actually see in the real world) in that individual or species and,
if continued long enough, in its death. Thermodynamics surely applies at
all levels of biological systems and processes. Trying to work around
these laws to say evolution is a "fact" simply shows no real understanding
or comprehension of real-world science. And the fact is that no truly
benificial mutations have ever been demonstrated anywhere at any time.
The evolution model(opinion) requires, no demands, a vast increase in
organized complexity over the ages, from primeval chaotic particles to
present-day complex people(chaos to complex order). On the other hand,
the entropy priciple in science can be considered as a "prediction" from
the biblical doctrines of special creation and the subsequent devine curse
on the creation(order to choas)ending in total dissolution.
I will be proved wrong if tonite my 85 Ford organizes itself into a 2004
Rolls Royce by morning-without any outside help.....
Nah...you will be proved right if any living soul who grew from a
fertilized egg into a blastula into a full-formed person
spontaneoulsly and utterly degenerates tonight, in accordance with
your mis-shapen views on thermodynamics.
Alberich
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| User: "Brian" |
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| Title: Re: Evolutions Hope |
03 Jan 2004 06:45:51 PM |
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Please visit http://www.beliefnet.com/story/13/story_1352_1.html and read
his holiness Pope John Paul II's address to the Pontifical Academy of
Sciences "Truth cannot contradict truth."
Any help you need with it's comprehension I'm sure you can find here in
arc-rc.
Yours in JMJ,
Brian
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