"jb" <jbenbo(4)@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:HnQUf.122$Fl.48@fed1read09...

more is known.

Confirmation by Non-Christian Historians. One popular misconceptions
about Jesus is that there is no mention of him in any ancient sources
outside of the Bible. On the contrary, there are numerous references to
him as an historical figure who died at the hand of Pontius Pilate. Some
even noted that he was reported to have risen from the dead, and was
worshiped as a god by all who followed him. Gary Habermas discusses these
exhaustively. Quotations from historians and other sources are found in
the article New Testament, Non-Christian Sources .

I have spent years digging to find any sort of messiah...it is all wrong.

Some this, and some that...

Dangerous decisions you are manking, jb.

Evidence Relating to Jesus' Death. Three fascinating discoveries
illuminate the death of Christ and, to some degree, his resurrection. The
first is an unusual decree; the second is the body of another crucifixion
victim.

One thing about story tellers, they are so good, that you feel like you
are there.

The Nazareth Decree. A slab of stone was found in Nazareth in 1878,
inscribed with a decree from Emperor Claudius ( a.d . 41-54) that no
graves should be disturbed or bodies extracted or moved. This type of
decree is not uncommon, but the startling fact is that here "the offender
[shall] be sentenced to capital punishment on [the] charge of violation
of [a] sepulchre" (ibid., 155). Other notices warned of a fine, but death
for disturbing graves? A likely explanation is that Claudius, having
heard of the Christian doctrine of resurrection and Jesus' empty tomb
while investigating the riots of a.d . 49, decided not to let any such
report surface again. This would make sense in light of the Jewish
argument that the body had been stolen ( Matt. 28:11-15 ). This is early
testimony to the strong and persistent belief that Jesus rose from the
dead.

Yohanan-A Crucifixion Victim. In 1968, an ancient burial site was
uncovered in Jerusalem containing about thirty-five bodies. It was
determined that most of these had suffered violent deaths in the Jewish
uprising against Rome in a.d . 70. One of these was a man named Yohanan
Ben Ha'galgol. He was about twenty-four to twenty-eight years old, had a
cleft palate, and a seven-inch nail was still driven through both his
feet. The feet had been turned outward so that the square nail could be
hammered through at the heel, just inside the Achilles tendon. This would
have bowed the legs outward as well so that they could not have been used
for support on the cross. The nail had gone through a wedge of acacia
wood, then through the heels, then into an olive wood beam. There was
also evidence that similar spikes had been put between the two bones of
each lower arm. These had caused the upper bones to be worn smooth as the
victim repeatedly raised and lowered himself to breathe (breathing is
restricted with the arms raised). Crucifixion victims had to lift
themselves to free the chest muscles and, when they grew too weak to do
so, died by suffocation.

Yohanan's legs were crushed by a blow, consistent with the common use of
the Roman crucifragium ( John 19:31-32 ). Each of these details confirms
the New Testament description of crucifixion.

Much more textual and archaeological evidence supports the accuracy of
the New Testament ( see Christ, Death of ). But even these examples
reveal the extent to which archaeology has confirmed the truth of the
Scriptures. Archaeologist Nelson Glueck has boldly asserted that "it may
be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever
controverted a biblical reference. Scores of archaeological findings have
been made which confirm in clear outline or exact detail historical
statements in the Bible" (Glueck, 31).

Sources

You can believe all of these sources of you can believe who the Messiah
will be, and what will occur during, before and after his arrival.

Yeshu was clearly not the messiah.

W. F. Albright, "Retrospect and Prospect in New Testament Archaeology,"
in E. J. Vardaman, ed., The Teacher's Yoke

F. F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?

N. Glueck, Rivers in the Desert

G. R. Habermas, The Verdict of History

C. J. Hemer, The Book of Acts in the Setting of Hellenistic History , C.
H. Gempf, ed.

J. McRay, Archaeology and the New Testament

W. M. Ramsay, St. Paul the Traveller and the Roman Citizen

J. A. T. Robinson, Redating the New Testament

A. N. Sherwin-White, Roman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament

C. A. Wilson, Rocks, Relics and Biblical Reliability

E. Yamauchi, The Stones and the Scriptur

Geisler, N. L. (1999). Baker encyclopedia of Christian apologetics. Baker
reference library (Page 48). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.
"jb" <jbenbo(4)@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:ixPUf.118$Fl.4@fed1read09...

"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:442341A4.DC436A47@Nothing_But_The.Truth...

jb wrote:

First of all it is important to recognizes that Jesus taught within
the
framework of the Jewish religion

===>First of all it is important to realize there's no historical
evidence
for the existence of that teacher. -- L.

Yet the problem with your assertion is that you can make it without
examining the various sources which do mention him including the Jewish
talmud. People are making statements here providing no specific proof
and then demanding others prove it wrong. What you just said depends a
lot on what scholarly sources you use. Jesus is mentioned by historians
and all the cities are accurately discribed given other sources. There
is a lot of evidence, but you have to do your homework. Something
people on this newsgroup rarely do.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----

I have spent years digging to find any sort of messiah...it is all wrong.

Some this, and some that...

Dangerous decisions you are manking, jb.

Evidence Relating to Jesus' Death. Three fascinating discoveries
illuminate the death of Christ and, to some degree, his resurrection. The
first is an unusual decree; the second is the body of another crucifixion
victim.

One thing about story tellers, they are so good, that you feel like you
are there.

The Nazareth Decree. A slab of stone was found in Nazareth in 1878,
inscribed with a decree from Emperor Claudius ( a.d . 41-54) that no
graves should be disturbed or bodies extracted or moved. This type of
decree is not uncommon, but the startling fact is that here "the offender
[shall] be sentenced to capital punishment on [the] charge of violation
of [a] sepulchre" (ibid., 155). Other notices warned of a fine, but death
for disturbing graves? A likely explanation is that Claudius, having
heard of the Christian doctrine of resurrection and Jesus' empty tomb
while investigating the riots of a.d . 49, decided not to let any such
report surface again. This would make sense in light of the Jewish
argument that the body had been stolen ( Matt. 28:11-15 ). This is early
testimony to the strong and persistent belief that Jesus rose from the
dead.

Yohanan-A Crucifixion Victim. In 1968, an ancient burial site was
uncovered in Jerusalem containing about thirty-five bodies. It was
determined that most of these had suffered violent deaths in the Jewish
uprising against Rome in a.d . 70. One of these was a man named Yohanan
Ben Ha'galgol. He was about twenty-four to twenty-eight years old, had a
cleft palate, and a seven-inch nail was still driven through both his
feet. The feet had been turned outward so that the square nail could be
hammered through at the heel, just inside the Achilles tendon. This would
have bowed the legs outward as well so that they could not have been used
for support on the cross. The nail had gone through a wedge of acacia
wood, then through the heels, then into an olive wood beam. There was
also evidence that similar spikes had been put between the two bones of
each lower arm. These had caused the upper bones to be worn smooth as the
victim repeatedly raised and lowered himself to breathe (breathing is
restricted with the arms raised). Crucifixion victims had to lift
themselves to free the chest muscles and, when they grew too weak to do
so, died by suffocation.

Yohanan's legs were crushed by a blow, consistent with the common use of
the Roman crucifragium ( John 19:31-32 ). Each of these details confirms
the New Testament description of crucifixion.

Much more textual and archaeological evidence supports the accuracy of
the New Testament ( see Christ, Death of ). But even these examples
reveal the extent to which archaeology has confirmed the truth of the
Scriptures. Archaeologist Nelson Glueck has boldly asserted that "it may
be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever
controverted a biblical reference. Scores of archaeological findings have
been made which confirm in clear outline or exact detail historical
statements in the Bible" (Glueck, 31).

Sources

You can believe all of these sources of you can believe who the Messiah
will be, and what will occur during, before and after his arrival.

Yeshu was clearly not the messiah.

W. F. Albright, "Retrospect and Prospect in New Testament Archaeology,"
in E. J. Vardaman, ed., The Teacher's Yoke

F. F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?

N. Glueck, Rivers in the Desert

G. R. Habermas, The Verdict of History

C. J. Hemer, The Book of Acts in the Setting of Hellenistic History , C.
H. Gempf, ed.

J. McRay, Archaeology and the New Testament

W. M. Ramsay, St. Paul the Traveller and the Roman Citizen

J. A. T. Robinson, Redating the New Testament

A. N. Sherwin-White, Roman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament

C. A. Wilson, Rocks, Relics and Biblical Reliability

E. Yamauchi, The Stones and the Scriptur

Geisler, N. L. (1999). Baker encyclopedia of Christian apologetics. Baker
reference library (Page 48). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.
"jb" <jbenbo(4)@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:ixPUf.118$Fl.4@fed1read09...

"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:442341A4.DC436A47@Nothing_But_The.Truth...

jb wrote:

First of all it is important to recognizes that Jesus taught within
the
framework of the Jewish religion

===>First of all it is important to realize there's no historical
evidence
for the existence of that teacher. -- L.

Yet the problem with your assertion is that you can make it without
examining the various sources which do mention him including the Jewish
talmud. People are making statements here providing no specific proof
and then demanding others prove it wrong. What you just said depends a
lot on what scholarly sources you use. Jesus is mentioned by historians
and all the cities are accurately discribed given other sources. There
is a lot of evidence, but you have to do your homework. Something
people on this newsgroup rarely do.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----

"jb" <jbenbo(4)@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:HnQUf.122$Fl.48@fed1read09...

more is known.

Confirmation by Non-Christian Historians. One popular misconceptions about
Jesus is that there is no mention of him in any ancient sources outside of
the Bible. On the contrary, there are numerous references to him as an
historical figure who died at the hand of Pontius Pilate. Some even noted
that he was reported to have risen from the dead, and was worshiped as a
god by all who followed him. Gary Habermas discusses these exhaustively.
Quotations from historians and other sources are found in the article New
Testament, Non-Christian Sources .

I have spent years digging to find any sort of messiah...it is all wrong.

Some this, and some that...

Dangerous decisions you are manking, jb.

Evidence Relating to Jesus' Death. Three fascinating discoveries
illuminate the death of Christ and, to some degree, his resurrection. The
first is an unusual decree; the second is the body of another crucifixion
victim.

One thing about story tellers, they are so good, that you feel like you are
there.

The Nazareth Decree. A slab of stone was found in Nazareth in 1878,
inscribed with a decree from Emperor Claudius ( a.d . 41-54) that no
graves should be disturbed or bodies extracted or moved. This type of
decree is not uncommon, but the startling fact is that here "the offender
[shall] be sentenced to capital punishment on [the] charge of violation of
[a] sepulchre" (ibid., 155). Other notices warned of a fine, but death for
disturbing graves? A likely explanation is that Claudius, having heard of
the Christian doctrine of resurrection and Jesus' empty tomb while
investigating the riots of a.d . 49, decided not to let any such report
surface again. This would make sense in light of the Jewish argument that
the body had been stolen ( Matt. 28:11-15 ). This is early testimony to
the strong and persistent belief that Jesus rose from the dead.

Yohanan-A Crucifixion Victim. In 1968, an ancient burial site was
uncovered in Jerusalem containing about thirty-five bodies. It was
determined that most of these had suffered violent deaths in the Jewish
uprising against Rome in a.d . 70. One of these was a man named Yohanan
Ben Ha'galgol. He was about twenty-four to twenty-eight years old, had a
cleft palate, and a seven-inch nail was still driven through both his
feet. The feet had been turned outward so that the square nail could be
hammered through at the heel, just inside the Achilles tendon. This would
have bowed the legs outward as well so that they could not have been used
for support on the cross. The nail had gone through a wedge of acacia
wood, then through the heels, then into an olive wood beam. There was also
evidence that similar spikes had been put between the two bones of each
lower arm. These had caused the upper bones to be worn smooth as the
victim repeatedly raised and lowered himself to breathe (breathing is
restricted with the arms raised). Crucifixion victims had to lift
themselves to free the chest muscles and, when they grew too weak to do
so, died by suffocation.

Yohanan's legs were crushed by a blow, consistent with the common use of
the Roman crucifragium ( John 19:31-32 ). Each of these details confirms
the New Testament description of crucifixion.

Much more textual and archaeological evidence supports the accuracy of the
New Testament ( see Christ, Death of ). But even these examples reveal the
extent to which archaeology has confirmed the truth of the Scriptures.
Archaeologist Nelson Glueck has boldly asserted that "it may be stated
categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a
biblical reference. Scores of archaeological findings have been made which
confirm in clear outline or exact detail historical statements in the
Bible" (Glueck, 31).

Sources

You can believe all of these sources of you can believe who the Messiah will
be, and what will occur during, before and after his arrival.

Yeshu was clearly not the messiah.

"jb" wrote in message news:HnQUf.122$Fl.48@fed1read09...
:
: more is known.
:
: Confirmation by Non-Christian Historians. One popular misconceptions
about
: Jesus is that there is no mention of him in any ancient sources outside
of
: the Bible. On the contrary, there are numerous references to him as an
: historical figure who died at the hand of Pontius Pilate. Some even
noted
: that he was reported to have risen from the dead, and was worshiped as a
god
: by all who followed him. Gary Habermas discusses these exhaustively.
: Quotations from historians and other sources are found in the article
New
: Testament, Non-Christian Sources .
:
: Evidence Relating to Jesus' Death. Three fascinating discoveries
illuminate
: the death of Christ and, to some degree, his resurrection. The first is
an
: unusual decree; the second is the body of another crucifixion victim.
:
: The Nazareth Decree. A slab of stone was found in Nazareth in 1878,
: inscribed with a decree from Emperor Claudius ( a.d . 41-54) that no
graves
: should be disturbed or bodies extracted or moved. This type of decree is
not
: uncommon, but the startling fact is that here "the offender [shall] be
: sentenced to capital punishment on [the] charge of violation of [a]
: sepulchre" (ibid., 155). Other notices warned of a fine, but death for
: disturbing graves? A likely explanation is that Claudius, having heard
of
: the Christian doctrine of resurrection and Jesus' empty tomb while
: investigating the riots of a.d . 49, decided not to let any such report
: surface again. This would make sense in light of the Jewish argument
that
: the body had been stolen ( Matt. 28:11-15 ). This is early testimony to
the
: strong and persistent belief that Jesus rose from the dead.
:
: Yohanan-A Crucifixion Victim. In 1968, an ancient burial site was
uncovered
: in Jerusalem containing about thirty-five bodies. It was determined that
: most of these had suffered violent deaths in the Jewish uprising against
: Rome in a.d . 70. One of these was a man named Yohanan Ben Ha'galgol. He
was
: about twenty-four to twenty-eight years old, had a cleft palate, and a
: seven-inch nail was still driven through both his feet. The feet had
been
: turned outward so that the square nail could be hammered through at the
: heel, just inside the Achilles tendon. This would have bowed the legs
: outward as well so that they could not have been used for support on the
: cross. The nail had gone through a wedge of acacia wood, then through
the
: heels, then into an olive wood beam. There was also evidence that
similar
: spikes had been put between the two bones of each lower arm. These had
: caused the upper bones to be worn smooth as the victim repeatedly raised
and
: lowered himself to breathe (breathing is restricted with the arms
raised).
: Crucifixion victims had to lift themselves to free the chest muscles
and,
: when they grew too weak to do so, died by suffocation.
:
: Yohanan's legs were crushed by a blow, consistent with the common use of
the
: Roman crucifragium ( John 19:31-32 ). Each of these details confirms the
New
: Testament description of crucifixion.
:
: Much more textual and archaeological evidence supports the accuracy of
the
: New Testament ( see Christ, Death of ). But even these examples reveal
the
: extent to which archaeology has confirmed the truth of the Scriptures.
: Archaeologist Nelson Glueck has boldly asserted that "it may be stated
: categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a
: biblical reference. Scores of archaeological findings have been made
which
: confirm in clear outline or exact detail historical statements in the
Bible"
: (Glueck, 31).
:
: Sources
:
: W. F. Albright, "Retrospect and Prospect in New Testament Archaeology,"
in
: E. J. Vardaman, ed., The Teacher's Yoke
:
: F. F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?
:
: N. Glueck, Rivers in the Desert
:
: G. R. Habermas, The Verdict of History
:
: C. J. Hemer, The Book of Acts in the Setting of Hellenistic History , C.
H.
: Gempf, ed.
:
: J. McRay, Archaeology and the New Testament
:
: W. M. Ramsay, St. Paul the Traveller and the Roman Citizen
:
: J. A. T. Robinson, Redating the New Testament
:
: A. N. Sherwin-White, Roman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament
:
: C. A. Wilson, Rocks, Relics and Biblical Reliability
:
: E. Yamauchi, The Stones and the Scriptur
:
: Geisler, N. L. (1999). Baker encyclopedia of Christian apologetics.
Baker
: reference library (Page 48). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.

Do you think that there may be the possibility of circular reasoning
involved in the conclusions of your biblical scholars?

--
Machque

"I think I'll believe in Gosh instead of God. If you don't believe in Gosh
too, you'll be darned to heck." -- anonymous
"He is YOUR God. They are YOUR Rules. YOU burn in Hell!" -- lapel button
"I don't mind born again Christians as long as they realize they don't get
twice as many rights." -- lapel button

"A faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many
regrets." -Arthur C. Clarke