| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"1Wit" |
| Date: |
30 Dec 2006 11:22:37 PM |
| Object: |
FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
Faith vs. faithful. Here is a scenario. Two men, called man 1 and man 2 are both
believers. These two men were approached by a very desirable woman These two men being
married, were ask to commit adultery. Man 1 said yes and man 2 declined. The law
states, thou shall not commit adultery. Man 1 is condemned by his action. Man 2 is
justified by his non action. Therefore man 1 is not justified by faith, because of an
action against the law. Man 2 is justified by the law because of his non action.
Different scenario. Man 1 see's another believer in trouble. He has the ability to
help, but he doesn't do it. Man 2 comes along and see's the same man and he stop's to
help. Therefore man 1 is condemned for his non action, and man 2 is honored for his
action. Man 2 is justified because of the law. Love thy neighbor as thy self. Man 1
has faith without the law, and is not justified. Man 2 is faithful to the law. It is
almost impossible to not have works, either by action or non action. But the work's
without the law are condemned, and the work's according to the law, are righteous. Man
1 has faith, but is not faithful, to the law. Man 2 has faith and is faithful to the
law.
In these two scenario's where action and non action are counted as works. These are
deed's these men followed. Man 1 claims to be justified, because he has faith in
Paul's doctrine. Man 2 is justified by his deeds and faithfulness, according to the
law, because he has put his faith in Jesus and God. Man 1 is condemned in the first
scenario because of, Thou shalt not commit adultery. Man 1 is also condemned in the
second scenario because of his lack of action and the law, Love thy neighbor as
thyself. Therefore man 2 is justified by his deed's and non deed's according to the
law in both scenario's.
Thou shalt not commit adultery is a direct command from God. It is a covenant
commandment. Love thy neighbor as thy self is not a covenant commandment. But Jesus
called it a direct command and one of the greatest commandment's. James called it a
Royal commandment. James 2:8 Therefore, observed by those of the Royal Household of
God. Those not or the royal household only pay lip service to this commandment. They
say and do not, which make's them hypocrites. James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth
to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. Luke 10:30-36. Jesus and who is my
neighbor. Also Mat 25:32-46. The sheep and the goats. And James with love thy
neighbor. Not only is the man of " faith only," not justified, but he is in danger of
everlasting punishment. Mat. 25:46. Then Paul said Rom 2:13 but the doers of the law
shall be justified. Then this double tongued Paul said, Rom. 3:28 Therefore we
conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Therefore I
concluded that Paul was confused and deluded. I don't accept Paul as a spokesman of
the truth.
These are only two scenario's. I could probably fill a book, where man is justified
by his works according to the law. The law must be applied justly, with equity and
mercy, to be righteous. The righteous application of the law is what makes the law
righteous. James said, faith without works is dead. I can add to this verse to
clarify this. Faith without righteous works is dead. Because there are righteous works
and there are evil works. How can anyone do a righteous work according to law, without
the law? The law is the way of God.
Man can not have compassion for a neighbor unless he has love thy neighbor written in
his heart. Compassion is an emotion of the soul, which is seated in the heart of man.
Therefore a man's mind may tell him one thing and his heart another thing. The mind
said, Love thy neighbor. But if you do not love thy neighbor from the heart, it is not
of righteousness. I will have mercy and not sacrifice. Love thy neighbor from the mind
is a sacrifice. Love thy neighbor from the heart is of mercy, and acceptable to God.
God does not want you to make a sacrifice because you have to. He wants you to make a
sacrifice because you want to. It is not acceptable to just believe or have faith in
God. You must show your faith by your faithfulness in what you believe. It is not good
enough to just believe something because someone said to believe it. You must study to
know WHY you believe it. The bible has been severely tampered with from the beginning.
So when finding contradiction's you must determine who is right or wrong. There is
doctrine and there is anti doctrine. Paul is a practitioner of anti doctrine, which is
against the teachings of Jesus.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but
under grace. This verse teaches people that they do not have to obey the law.
Therefore they can ignore the law by saying, we are under grace. Grace only apply's to
ignorance. Basically, new converts. Grace does not apply to deliberate sin. Heb 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there
remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do
good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. Grace was granted for ignorance of the way
of God. This is a fair judgement.
To commit deliberate sin and claim to be under grace for your evil doings, you mock
the grace of God. Righteousness is the blood of the spirit. The heart pumps the blood
of righteousness to the mind. Therefore the law must be followed with the heart also.
Paul also said, if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. This statement
is not exactly accurate. There is the spirit of evil and the spirit of righteousness.
The soul lust's after carnal desires. The spirit of righteousness does not follow the
way of sin if it has an essence. Therefore grace is granted until an essence is
aquired. The soul is given at carnal birth. The soul is cleansed at salvation. The
spirit must be born. Amos 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword,
which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.( because we are under grace.)
Grace is granted for ignorance. Once knowledge has come, there is no more need for
grace. If a man decides to remain, or to follow evil, after he knows better, Mat
12:43-45 The last state of that man will be worse than the first. God actually desires
for you to learn from your mistakes. This brings wisdom. There is grace which is
applied for sin's of ignorance. There is punishment for the sin's you have knowledge
of. Grace is not granted for deliberate sin. Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and
chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. If you can not hear the rebuke of Jesus,
you are so far away from him, you can not hear him.
Paul admitted to being a liar in Rom 7:25 It takes a really sick mind to think God,
can be glorified by a lie. Then three times he said, I LIE NOT. Trying to convince
those that heard he was a liar, that he wasn't lying to them at this time. He also
admitted to being a deceiver. 2 Cor 12:16 Paul said, Col 3:9 Lie not one to another,
Therefore you are not allowed to lie to each other, by the law of Paul. But Paul can
lie to you. This makes him an, A number one hypocrite. Rev 21:8 and all liars, shall
have their part in the lake which burneth with fire. Lie's come from an evil heart. A
man following righteousness does not lie from the heart.
The duty of Satan is to get you to sin. Sin is a violation of the law. Then you have
Paul telling you to, throw out the law, because if you have faith, you are justified
in your sin. And if that isn't enough, you are under grace, which also makes you
justified in your sin. No other accepted writer has confirmed Paul's anti doctrine.
The only way to confirm Paul's anti doctrine, is with Paul's own writings. Evil
people always try to justify their evil deeds. They hide there crimes with, I'm not
under the law, or I'm under grace, or I'm justified by faith. Satan has given you
justification for your sin through Paul. But in doing so you must follow this false
prophet inspired by Satan. If you think you know God, and you don't keep his
commandments, you are a liar. Just like Paul and Satan and the catholic church, taught
you to be.
Satan is alive and well and a very powerful voice in the Christian church. Jer 23:31
Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He
saith. These evil doers tell you that the works of Paul, came from God. This is a lie.
God did not instruct Paul, but Satan did. Just enough to lead you from the straight
and narrow path. Those that are allowed to proceed into the body of the tabernacle,
will have their spiritual ears opened, to the way of the Lord. Isa 30:21 And thine
ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, This is a
telepathic voice. Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the
mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, .....
and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall
go forth the law, This is the law that you have been taught to reject by the heathen
spiritual impersonator's. Psa 119:126 It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they
have made void thy law. Every person that keeps you away from the law, is a person
that is denying you, your rightful access to the Mountain.
If it is your desire to follow Paul in his anti doctrine, and say you don't have to
obey God's law, because you have faith or are under Grace. Your destruction is on it's
way. Prov 28:9 If you refuse to hear the law, even your prayer is an abomination to
God. Prov 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; Reject the
commandment's and you have no lamp. Reject the law and you have no light. By teaching
the people to ignore the commandment's and the law. Paul and his follower's have
taught you to walk in darkness. All the while, telling you, that you were walking in
the light. The purpose of this was to keep you from knowledge about the true
tabernacle, and the knowledge of the Mountain of God. Follow Paul in not giving honor
to the law, then follow Paul into the lake of fire.
THE FIRST WITNESS
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
31 Dec 2006 05:41:11 PM |
|
|
(1Wit) wrote:
Faith vs. faithful. Here is a scenario. Two men, called man 1 and man 2 are both
believers. These two men were approached by a very desirable woman These two men being
married, were ask to commit adultery. Man 1 said yes and man 2 declined. The law
states, thou shall not commit adultery. Man 1 is condemned by his action. Man 2 is
justified by his non action. Therefore man 1 is not justified by faith, because of an
action against the law. Man 2 is justified by the law because of his non action.
Different scenario. Man 1 see's another believer in trouble. He has the ability to
help, but he doesn't do it. Man 2 comes along and see's the same man and he stop's to
help. Therefore man 1 is condemned for his non action, and man 2 is honored for his
action. Man 2 is justified because of the law. Love thy neighbor as thy self. Man 1
has faith without the law, and is not justified. Man 2 is faithful to the law. It is
almost impossible to not have works, either by action or non action. But the work's
without the law are condemned, and the work's according to the law, are righteous. Man
1 has faith, but is not faithful, to the law. Man 2 has faith and is faithful to the
law.
In these two scenario's where action and non action are counted as works. These are
deed's these men followed. Man 1 claims to be justified, because he has faith in
Paul's doctrine. Man 2 is justified by his deeds and faithfulness, according to the
law, because he has put his faith in Jesus and God. Man 1 is condemned in the first
scenario because of, Thou shalt not commit adultery. Man 1 is also condemned in the
second scenario because of his lack of action and the law, Love thy neighbor as
thyself. Therefore man 2 is justified by his deed's and non deed's according to the
law in both scenario's.
Thou shalt not commit adultery is a direct command from God. It is a covenant
commandment. Love thy neighbor as thy self is not a covenant commandment. But Jesus
called it a direct command and one of the greatest commandment's. James called it a
Royal commandment. James 2:8 Therefore, observed by those of the Royal Household of
God. Those not or the royal household only pay lip service to this commandment. They
say and do not, which make's them hypocrites. James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth
to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. Luke 10:30-36. Jesus and who is my
neighbor. Also Mat 25:32-46. The sheep and the goats. And James with love thy
neighbor. Not only is the man of " faith only," not justified, but he is in danger of
everlasting punishment. Mat. 25:46. Then Paul said Rom 2:13 but the doers of the law
shall be justified. Then this double tongued Paul said, Rom. 3:28 Therefore we
conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Therefore I
concluded that Paul was confused and deluded. I don't accept Paul as a spokesman of
the truth.
These are only two scenario's. I could probably fill a book, where man is justified
by his works according to the law. The law must be applied justly, with equity and
mercy, to be righteous. The righteous application of the law is what makes the law
righteous. James said, faith without works is dead. I can add to this verse to
clarify this. Faith without righteous works is dead. Because there are righteous works
and there are evil works. How can anyone do a righteous work according to law, without
the law? The law is the way of God.
Man can not have compassion for a neighbor unless he has love thy neighbor written in
his heart. Compassion is an emotion of the soul, which is seated in the heart of man.
Therefore a man's mind may tell him one thing and his heart another thing. The mind
said, Love thy neighbor. But if you do not love thy neighbor from the heart, it is not
of righteousness. I will have mercy and not sacrifice. Love thy neighbor from the mind
is a sacrifice. Love thy neighbor from the heart is of mercy, and acceptable to God.
God does not want you to make a sacrifice because you have to. He wants you to make a
sacrifice because you want to. It is not acceptable to just believe or have faith in
God. You must show your faith by your faithfulness in what you believe. It is not good
enough to just believe something because someone said to believe it. You must study to
know WHY you believe it. The bible has been severely tampered with from the beginning.
So when finding contradiction's you must determine who is right or wrong. There is
doctrine and there is anti doctrine. Paul is a practitioner of anti doctrine, which is
against the teachings of Jesus.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but
under grace. This verse teaches people that they do not have to obey the law.
Therefore they can ignore the law by saying, we are under grace. Grace only apply's to
ignorance. Basically, new converts. Grace does not apply to deliberate sin. Heb 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there
remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do
good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. Grace was granted for ignorance of the way
of God. This is a fair judgement.
To commit deliberate sin and claim to be under grace for your evil doings, you mock
the grace of God. Righteousness is the blood of the spirit. The heart pumps the blood
of righteousness to the mind. Therefore the law must be followed with the heart also.
Paul also said, if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. This statement
is not exactly accurate. There is the spirit of evil and the spirit of righteousness.
The soul lust's after carnal desires. The spirit of righteousness does not follow the
way of sin if it has an essence. Therefore grace is granted until an essence is
aquired. The soul is given at carnal birth. The soul is cleansed at salvation. The
spirit must be born. Amos 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword,
which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.( because we are under grace.)
Grace is granted for ignorance. Once knowledge has come, there is no more need for
grace. If a man decides to remain, or to follow evil, after he knows better, Mat
12:43-45 The last state of that man will be worse than the first. God actually desires
for you to learn from your mistakes. This brings wisdom. There is grace which is
applied for sin's of ignorance. There is punishment for the sin's you have knowledge
of. Grace is not granted for deliberate sin. Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and
chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. If you can not hear the rebuke of Jesus,
you are so far away from him, you can not hear him.
Paul admitted to being a liar in Rom 7:25 It takes a really sick mind to think God,
can be glorified by a lie. Then three times he said, I LIE NOT. Trying to convince
those that heard he was a liar, that he wasn't lying to them at this time. He also
admitted to being a deceiver. 2 Cor 12:16 Paul said, Col 3:9 Lie not one to another,
Therefore you are not allowed to lie to each other, by the law of Paul. But Paul can
lie to you. This makes him an, A number one hypocrite. Rev 21:8 and all liars, shall
have their part in the lake which burneth with fire. Lie's come from an evil heart. A
man following righteousness does not lie from the heart.
The duty of Satan is to get you to sin. Sin is a violation of the law. Then you have
Paul telling you to, throw out the law, because if you have faith, you are justified
in your sin. And if that isn't enough, you are under grace, which also makes you
justified in your sin. No other accepted writer has confirmed Paul's anti doctrine.
The only way to confirm Paul's anti doctrine, is with Paul's own writings. Evil
people always try to justify their evil deeds. They hide there crimes with, I'm not
under the law, or I'm under grace, or I'm justified by faith. Satan has given you
justification for your sin through Paul. But in doing so you must follow this false
prophet inspired by Satan. If you think you know God, and you don't keep his
commandments, you are a liar. Just like Paul and Satan and the catholic church, taught
you to be.
Satan is alive and well and a very powerful voice in the Christian church. Jer 23:31
Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He
saith. These evil doers tell you that the works of Paul, came from God. This is a lie.
God did not instruct Paul, but Satan did. Just enough to lead you from the straight
and narrow path. Those that are allowed to proceed into the body of the tabernacle,
will have their spiritual ears opened, to the way of the Lord. Isa 30:21 And thine
ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, This is a
telepathic voice. Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the
mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, .....
and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall
go forth the law, This is the law that you have been taught to reject by the heathen
spiritual impersonator's. Psa 119:126 It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they
have made void thy law. Every person that keeps you away from the law, is a person
that is denying you, your rightful access to the Mountain.
If it is your desire to follow Paul in his anti doctrine, and say you don't have to
obey God's law, because you have faith or are under Grace. Your destruction is on it's
way. Prov 28:9 If you refuse to hear the law, even your prayer is an abomination to
God. Prov 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; Reject the
commandment's and you have no lamp. Reject the law and you have no light. By teaching
the people to ignore the commandment's and the law. Paul and his follower's have
taught you to walk in darkness. All the while, telling you, that you were walking in
the light. The purpose of this was to keep you from knowledge about the true
tabernacle, and the knowledge of the Mountain of God. Follow Paul in not giving honor
to the law, then follow Paul into the lake of fire.
THE FIRST WITNESS
It is by grace we are saved after all we can do. There are no people
who have works sufficient to save themselves. Salvation can only be
obtained through the atonement of Christ.
Robert B. Winn
.
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| User: "1Wit" |
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| Title: Re: FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
02 Jan 2007 04:20:03 PM |
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wrote:
(1Wit) wrote:
If it is your desire to follow Paul in his anti doctrine, and say you don't have to
obey God's law, because you have faith or are under Grace. Your destruction is on it's
way. Prov 28:9 If you refuse to hear the law, even your prayer is an abomination to
God. Prov 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; Reject the
commandment's and you have no lamp. Reject the law and you have no light. By teaching
the people to ignore the commandment's and the law. Paul and his follower's have
taught you to walk in darkness. All the while, telling you, that you were walking in
the light. The purpose of this was to keep you from knowledge about the true
tabernacle, and the knowledge of the Mountain of God. Follow Paul in not giving honor
to the law, then follow Paul into the lake of fire.
THE FIRST WITNESS
It is by grace we are saved after all we can do. There are no people
who have works sufficient to save themselves.
John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but
by me. Saving one self is impossable. Therefore by grace are you saved. Grace must be
granted because you do not deserve it. This grace extends until you learn right from
wrong. Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of
the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, You have used up the sacrifice
that Jesus made. If you claim you are under grace for wilfull sin you are mocking the
grace of God.
Salvation can only be
obtained through the atonement of Christ.
This is true. Jesus made himself a sacrifice for the atonement for sin. This agrees
with Paul. Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation ( atonement )
through faith in his blood, WAIT A MINUTE. Paul also said Jesus was the passover
sacrifice. 1 Cor 5:7 For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Jesus can not
be both sacrifices. Again Paul is double tongued. These sacrifices are about six
months apart. A main requirement for the passover is that each family must use a
differant sacrifical lamb. Jesus said I came to fulfill the law. Therefore by reading
the requirements of the passover you'll find out that someone is lying.
THE FIRST WITNESS
.
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| User: "Provoker" |
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| Title: Re: FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
31 Dec 2006 06:52:08 PM |
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wrote:
It is by grace we are saved after all we can do. There are no people
who have works sufficient to save themselves. Salvation can only be
obtained through the atonement of Christ.
Robert B. Winn
Hello Robert:
What you say is metaphoricly correct, but could you explain the
principle that the metaphores refer to?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
01 Jan 2007 11:56:31 AM |
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Provoker wrote:
rbwinn3@juno.com wrote:
It is by grace we are saved after all we can do. There are no people
who have works sufficient to save themselves. Salvation can only be
obtained through the atonement of Christ.
Robert B. Winn
Hello Robert:
What you say is metaphoricly correct, but could you explain the
principle that the metaphores refer to?
The principle is faith in Jesus Christ.
Robert B. Winn
.
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| User: "Provoker" |
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| Title: Re: FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
01 Jan 2007 05:15:03 PM |
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wrote:
Provoker wrote:
Hello Robert:
What you say is metaphoricly correct, but could you explain the
principle that the metaphores refer to?
The principle is faith in Jesus Christ.
Robert B. Winn
Hello Robert:
I think that the principle is faith in the good news that all the
nations will be blessed with peace on earth, through the global power
of the great nation of the Abrahamic covenant, which will rule all the
land between the Euphrates and the Nile.
Of course, the words "Jesus Christ", translated into English in the
context of the gospel, mean "Saviour King", so your statement appears
to refer to the next event which must take place in God's everlasting
covenant plan...the coming of the Christ. What do you think?
.
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| User: "1Wit" |
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| Title: Re: FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
02 Jan 2007 04:20:04 PM |
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"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote:
rbwinn3@juno.com wrote:
Provoker wrote:
Hello Robert:
What you say is metaphoricly correct, but could you explain the
principle that the metaphores refer to?
The principle is faith in Jesus Christ.
Robert B. Winn
Hello Robert:
I think that the principle is faith in the good news that all the
nations will be blessed with peace on earth, through the global power
of the great nation of the Abrahamic covenant, which will rule all the
land between the Euphrates and the Nile.
You need to get on track. Think spiritually. Spiritually speaking, the land you speak
of is the inhabited land. There were four rivers that ran out of Eden. All had one
source. ( i.e. God ) The waters of God. There was the Jordan, the river of Wisdon.
There was the Nile, the river of Knowledge. There was the Euphrates, the river of
understanding. There was the Tigress, the river of Peace. God could not give Abraham
the river of Peace, because the Prince of Peace had not come yet. Even though
Knowledge and Peace run parallel. In the birth journey man must drink from the head
waters of each river. It is the river of knowledge where your cup will run over. You
can not contain all the pure, water of knowledge, that you will recieve. There be
dragons there. It is the spiritual people of God that must conquer the spiritual land
between the rivers and beyond. These four spirits ( Rivers ) are refered to as beast
in Rev. 4:7. These are also the four entity's who are the four horns of the altar of
fire. These oversee and control your trial by fire in the tabernacle. Isa 30:21 And
thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it,
THE FIRST WITNESS
.
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| User: "Provoker" |
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| Title: Re: FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
04 Jan 2007 10:16:19 AM |
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(1Wit) wrote:
You need to get on track. Think spiritually. Spiritually speaking, the land you speak
of is the inhabited land. There were four rivers that ran out of Eden. All had one
source. ( i.e. God ) The waters of God. There was the Jordan, the river of Wisdon.
There was the Nile, the river of Knowledge. There was the Euphrates, the river of
understanding. There was the Tigress, the river of Peace. God could not give Abraham
the river of Peace, because the Prince of Peace had not come yet. Even though
Knowledge and Peace run parallel. In the birth journey man must drink from the head
waters of each river. It is the river of knowledge where your cup will run over. You
can not contain all the pure, water of knowledge, that you will recieve. There be
dragons there. It is the spiritual people of God that must conquer the spiritual land
between the rivers and beyond. These four spirits ( Rivers ) are refered to as beast
in Rev. 4:7. These are also the four entity's who are the four horns of the altar of
fire. These oversee and control your trial by fire in the tabernacle. Isa 30:21 And
thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it,
THE FIRST WITNESS
Hello 1Wit:
I agree that we need to think spiritually, but that does not mean
mystical and spooky thinking, it simply means to get into the spirit of
the bible story, and more specificly, into the spirit of the gospel.
The gospel, first preached to Abraham, is that God has a plan to bless
all the nations with peace on earth, through the power and might of a
great nation which will rise up on all the land between the Euphrates
and the nile, and will have as it's national goal, the bringing of the
blessing of peace on earth to all the nations. The gospel was later
altered for the political purposes of the Roman empire, but the true
gospel remains intact for those who know how to read a book...LOL
All those who are committed to the goal of bringing the blessing of
peace on earth to all the nations, by buiding a nation for that
purpose, on all the land between the Euphrates and the Nile, are
Abraham's children in spirit(spiritual children), and their committment
is to God's gospel plan.
.
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| User: "1Wit" |
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| Title: Re: FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
06 Jan 2007 09:14:31 PM |
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"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote:
(1Wit) wrote:
You need to get on track. Think spiritually. Spiritually speaking, the land you speak
of is the inhabited land. There were four rivers that ran out of Eden. All had one
source. ( i.e. God ) The waters of God. There was the Jordan, the river of Wisdon.
There was the Nile, the river of Knowledge. There was the Euphrates, the river of
understanding. There was the Tigress, the river of Peace. God could not give Abraham
the river of Peace, because the Prince of Peace had not come yet. Even though
Knowledge and Peace run parallel. In the birth journey man must drink from the head
waters of each river. It is the river of knowledge where your cup will run over. You
can not contain all the pure, water of knowledge, that you will recieve. There be
dragons there. It is the spiritual people of God that must conquer the spiritual land
between the rivers and beyond. These four spirits ( Rivers ) are refered to as beast
in Rev. 4:7. These are also the four entity's who are the four horns of the altar of
fire. These oversee and control your trial by fire in the tabernacle. Isa 30:21 And
thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it,
THE FIRST WITNESS
Hello 1Wit:
I agree that we need to think spiritually, but that does not mean
mystical and spooky thinking,
Yes it does. It is mystical. Anything outside of the carnal natural sense's is called
mystical. The spirit is like the wind. You can feel the presence's of the spirit. Not
carnally, but by your mystical ( spiritual ) sense's. Take Job for instance. Job 4:15
Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up: Job felt this with
his mystical ( spiritual ) sense's. But in this instance the spirit notified the flesh
of danger. The hair of my flesh stood up. Practically all things of God are mystical.
They are only called spooky to the carnally minded people. There is the natural world
and there is the super-natural. Super natural means above nature. Natural man can not
converse with the other side. Which by no mean's is saying, the dead can not speak to
the dead. The one side is given to life the other side is given to death. Good and
evil. Anything mystical, not understandable to the carnal man is called occult. Mat
12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out
devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. They were so self righteous they
couldn't understand how God would give this power to a common Israelite. Therefore
they labeled him as a member of the occult. The super natural man can have many
conversation's. This is called telepathy. Telepathy is generally labeled as occult.
This is called, in communion with the other side. The natural man thinks this is
spooky. A spiritual dream or vision is mystical. But to the man that is controlled by
nature, you are a spooky wacko. A premonition is of the mystic realm.
it simply means to get into the spirit of
the bible story, and more specificly, into the spirit of the gospel.
Actually the word gospel is a Christian word. But the has been expanded to mean
different things. Generally speaking, The Gospel is the first four books of the new
testament. There were over thirty gospels. The Catholics chose these four. This was
because there were four winds of heaven, and four corners of the earth. Actually this
was just an excuse to remove anything that did not conform to their false doctrine's.
Now today, we know the earth is not flat and doesn't have corners. Therefore man must
look into the mystic, to see what God meant. Man now knows there are more than four
winds. Jesus likened the spirit to the wind. Therefore in the mystic, there must be
four prominent winds. These are found in Rev 4:7. To find the four corners you must
look into the mystic. Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full
age, even those who by reason of use have their ( spiritual ) senses exercised to
discern both good and evil.
The gospel, first preached to Abraham, is that God has a plan to bless
all the nations with peace on earth, through the power and might of a
great nation which will rise up on all the land between the Euphrates
and the nile, and will have as it's national goal, the bringing of the
blessing of peace on earth to all the nations.
There is the carnal Israel and the spiritual Israel. The carnal which can be seen is
the shadow of the spiritual. It would be great to bring peace to the world. But I know
this isn't going to happen. Jesus didn't bring peace but a sword. Mat 10:34. Even
though Jesus opened up the spiritual land between the rivers. There was the carnal
tabernacle and now a spiritual ( mystical ) tabernacle. There were hangings around the
tabernacle so that those outside could not see in. Just like people of today can not
see into the true tabernacle of Jesus. All they can do is listen to one that has seen
clear into the Holy Place.
In the first tabernacle, the High Priest came out and accepted the sacrifice. He and
the sinner would lay their hands on the head of the sacrifice. The sacrifice was slain
and taken to the alter of fire. Now in the second tabernacle the High Priest comes out
and receives the sacrifice ( YOU ). You are slain and taken to the alter of fire for
your trial by fire. This is where you sacrifice your life to God. The worldly flesh is
burned away. Jesus gave his life for the sin's of the world. He did not give his life
for the sin's of the kingdom. Jesus died for the sin's of the world is a false
statement. Jesus had power over the sin's of the world, before he died. The sacrifice
of Jesus was for salvation from the sin's of the world. Jesus made the sacrifice long
before he was killed. This makes you a member of the Tabernacle. The tabernacle is
laid out in the shape of a man. The controlling elements of the trunk are inside the
trunk of the tabernacle. To enter this place, there must be another sacrifice. Jesus
had some what to offer. Therefore you also are required to offer something to enter
this place. That is, your life. You are commanded to ( Stand in the Holy Place ) at a
certain time. The only way to the Holy Place, is through the trunk of the tabernacle.
Because the New tabernacle is mystical some one must tell you about it. The writer of
1Pet knew about the trial by fire. 1 Pet 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange
concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, The trial last from Pentecost to
atonement. Year after year until, the hand is no longer stretched out still.
The trial by fire is likened to a boot camp. This is where you are trained to fight
the enemy. The biggest enemy is yourself. You have weak areas, Satan knows this and
will try to exploit them. You are trained to fight back. This will make your weak
areas strong. I don't see any peace, that you spoke of. The only peace is within. All
I see is war. Brother against brother. Is that carnal or spiritual?? This is a war
that is not of this earth. Therefore super-natural. The carnally minded will not see
it until it is to late. Joel 2:11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army:
for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: An untrained
army is weak. Therefore God will train his army. The carnally minded would think of
using a carnal sword. The spiritually minded would think of using the sword of the
lord, which is the true word of God. Isa 30:17 One thousand shall flee at the rebuke
of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: God is looking for a few good men and
women for the mystic super natural battle. If called, at Pentecost, Isa 30:21 And
thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when
ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left. This is the straight and
narrow path. I can understand how those that only pay lip service to God, would run
away from this. Being a mystic is showing the ability to look into the spirit world.
When you speak of the spirit world many think you are evil. They seem to forget that
God is a spirit, and he rules over the spirit world.
You may or may not have wondered how prophets and priest came about. Why can't you do
these things? These things are reserved for those that enter the trunk of the
tabernacle. There is a way through, but it's not easy. Are you willing to go through
hell to get closer to God? There are little hints written through out. These are found
in books inspired by God or Jesus. REV. Or in books written by men of inspiration. You
usually don't see them unless someone tell's you about them. There is a way to get
much closer to God than you thought.
THE FIRST WITNESS.
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| User: "Provoker" |
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| Title: Re: FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
07 Jan 2007 02:09:38 PM |
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Hello 1Wit:
The reason that scripture is "written" is so that those who can read
will know what it says. If scripture has a different meaning than what
is written, then what is written is a lie. If special revelation is
required to understand something that is written, then it wasn't
necessary for it to have been written in the first place, and it's
message could simply be revealed without scripture.
If an honest author writes a book in a known language, he makes an
implicit guarantee that what he wrote in the book, can be completely
understood according to the rules of that known language.
Do you follow the logic here?
The Roman Catholic church insisted for centuries that only priests
could understand scripture, but they kept Catholics from actually
reading scripture, so that no one would question the church's claim.
By the time Catholics were allowed to actually read scripture, they had
been indoctrinated for so long that they could not see the story which
was right before their eyes.
People still try to pull the old RCC trick of convincing people that
they cannot trust written scripture, but that they must rely on these
"spiritual" people to tell them what scripture says. Should scripture
be banned again, from all but those who claim to have spiritual
understanding?
If one were to listen to all those who claim to have a spiritual
understanding of scripture, he would hear as many "spiritual meanings"
of scripture, as there are denominations and sects of Christianity.
Meanwhile, written scripture remains the same for all to read and
understand, if they know how to read.
There is no doubt that "the bible" has it's problems, but that is why
we are to rightly divide scripture. The division of scripture is
between the metaphorical and the literal, so that the spiritual is
understood. Those who claim to use spiritual understanding, tend to
see everything which is obviously a metaphore, as literal, and
everything which could be literal, as metaphorical, and that is just
the opposite of the way things would be written by an honest author.
A true spiritual understanding of scripture, is in recognizing that
scripture is written naratively, and therefore it's message is in the
narative, not in doctrinally selected single verses.
When I write, I write in narrative style, just as scripture is written,
and that means that my conclusions come at the end of narrative. If
someone breaks up my narrative, and addresses single sentences taken
from my narrative, he is interfering with the flow of context, and is
not rightly dividing. Those who insist that they have a spiritual
understanding of scripture, tend to base their interpretation on the
presumed meaning of single words, and/or single verses, and that is a
completely false way to interpret narrative scripture. Scripture was
not written in verses, but was divided into verses in the middle ages,
however, scripture was written as narrative, and it was written in
context, and the story which begins at the beginning, maintains
continuity throughout scripture, and concludes at the end, is the
greater context of scripture, and all the details of the text must be
interpreted in that context.
The division of scripture into verses and chapters, essentially
destroyed the contextual flow of scripture, and made selected single
verses the choice of the church for establishing doctrine, and that
choice has spawned more than 30,000 doctrinally disagreeing Christian
sects and denominations.
The purpose of scripture is the good news(gospel) that God preached to
Abraham; "a great nation would rise up from Abraham, rule all the land
between the Euphrates and the Nile, and bring the blessing of "peace on
earth, good will to men" to all the nations".
Israel was chosen to be that great nation, but it failed to continue in
love for one another, lost it's necessary unity, and fell into
non-existence, almost 3000 years ago.
God was obliged by the terms of His covenant with Israel, to turn His
face away, and not turn it back until Israel repents.
Since that time, those who keep the gospel alive in their hearts, have
been attempting to build a body of believers who will follow a coming
descendant of David, in the great battle to take back the promised
land, and resurrect the kingdom of covenant Israel, so that God's
gospel promise can continue on to bring the blessing of "peace on
earth, good will to men" to all the nations.
All the rest of the details of scripture, and their many doctrinal
interpretations, mean less than nothing if they are not interpreted in
the context of the continuous story of the gospel, which runs through
scripture.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
01 Jan 2007 09:50:34 PM |
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Provoker wrote:
rbwinn3@juno.com wrote:
Provoker wrote:
Hello Robert:
What you say is metaphoricly correct, but could you explain the
principle that the metaphores refer to?
The principle is faith in Jesus Christ.
Robert B. Winn
Hello Robert:
I think that the principle is faith in the good news that all the
nations will be blessed with peace on earth, through the global power
of the great nation of the Abrahamic covenant, which will rule all the
land between the Euphrates and the Nile.
Of course, the words "Jesus Christ", translated into English in the
context of the gospel, mean "Saviour King", so your statement appears
to refer to the next event which must take place in God's everlasting
covenant plan...the coming of the Christ. What do you think?
Sounds good to me.
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "Provoker" |
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| Title: Re: FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
31 Dec 2006 01:37:37 PM |
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(1Wit) wrote:
If it is your desire to follow Paul in his anti doctrine, and say you don't have to
obey God's law, because you have faith or are under Grace. Your destruction is on it's
way. Prov 28:9 If you refuse to hear the law, even your prayer is an abomination to
God. Prov 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; Reject the
commandment's and you have no lamp. Reject the law and you have no light. By teaching
the people to ignore the commandment's and the law. Paul and his follower's have
taught you to walk in darkness. All the while, telling you, that you were walking in
the light. The purpose of this was to keep you from knowledge about the true
tabernacle, and the knowledge of the Mountain of God. Follow Paul in not giving honor
to the law, then follow Paul into the lake of fire.
THE FIRST WITNESS
Hello 1Wit:
A better understanding of the situation might change your mind about
Paul:-)
God's law(love God and love your neighbour) was given specificly to the
national assembly of covenant Israel, and it was given for one
purpose...to maintain the necessary unity within God's chosen assembly,
for it to accomplish the job God had chosen it for. That job was to
become a great nation on all the land between the Euphrates and the
Nile, and be so powerful that it will bring the blessing of peace on
earth to all the nations, just as God had covenanted with Abraham. All
the nations will receive, by God's grace, the blessing(salvation) of
"peace on earth, good will to men".
Before it could accumulate all the land between the Euphrates and the
Nile, the national assembly of covenant Israel became divided against
it'self, breaking God's laws. God had provided for such a situation,
and all Israel had to do was to repent and return to God's favour, but
this time, Israel split into two, separate, warring, enemy nations,
which both went down to their respective destructions without ever
repenting(reuniting).
The laws that God had given to the covenant nation of Israel, no longer
legally applied to anyone since the covenant nation of Israel no longer
existed, and God's law will not legally apply to anyone until the
covenant nation of Israel is resurrected from the dead to complete it's
part in God's gracious plan to bring peace on earth, good will to men.
The first century Judean Jews were backslidden from the gospel of the
kingdom, and they falsely believed that they were legally under God's
law, but when Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom to them, they
realized that they were not legally under God's law.
Metaphoricly, Jesus saved them from the law, but what actually happened
was that Jesus simply showed them that they had not been legally under
the law in the first place.
Paul clearly understood, but the church of today has lost that
understanding.
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| User: "1Wit" |
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| Title: Re: FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
01 Jan 2007 06:55:47 PM |
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"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote:
(1Wit) wrote:
If it is your desire to follow Paul in his anti doctrine, and say you don't have to
obey God's law, because you have faith or are under Grace. Your destruction is on it's
way. Prov 28:9 If you refuse to hear the law, even your prayer is an abomination to
God. Prov 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; Reject the
commandment's and you have no lamp. Reject the law and you have no light. By teaching
the people to ignore the commandment's and the law. Paul and his follower's have
taught you to walk in darkness. All the while, telling you, that you were walking in
the light. The purpose of this was to keep you from knowledge about the true
tabernacle, and the knowledge of the Mountain of God. Follow Paul in not giving honor
to the law, then follow Paul into the lake of fire.
THE FIRST WITNESS
Hello 1Wit:
A better understanding of the situation might change your mind about
Paul:-)
God's law(love God and love your neighbour) was given specificly to the
national assembly of covenant Israel,
Jesus was not speaking to the ( national assembly of covenant Israel,) When he was ask
about the greatest commandment. Mat 22:37 Nor was James when he called The second
commandment ( Love thy neighbor ) the royal commandment. Jesus said Mat 5:18 Till
heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till
all be fulfilled. And again John 10:35 and the scripture cannot be broken; 1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth
is not in him. Therefore Paul is a liar when he taught you to ignore the law. I have
found that ungodly men use ( not under the law ) as a justification for crimes against
God and man. They will use any excuse. Such as saying, this law does not apply to me,
it was for Israel.
Again in case you missed it. Paul taught you to ignore the law. God said keep my laws
and also Jesus said keep my laws. Paul failed to hear the importance of the law.
Therefore he walked in darkness without a lamp, even his prayer was an abomination.
The house that Jesus set up had twelve houses. One failed and was replaced. Paul could
not have been an ambasator to a house he was not a menber of. Jesus divided his house
into twelve parts after the twelve tribes. Therefore Paul had no authority to promise
anything or any part of these houses. Paul was the odd man out. Just because he lied
and said that he spoke to Jesus doesn't make it the truth. After all, he did admit to
being a liar and a deciever. A tree is known by it's fruit. What I see today in the
christian church, has fulfilled the doctrine of Paul. This is why the church is full
of hypocrites and decievers. People who refuse to hear the law. Mat 25:45 Then shall
he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the
least of these, ye did it not to me. Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into
everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. This is not the (
national assembly of covenant Israel ) that he was talking to.
THE FIRST WITNESS.
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| User: "Provoker" |
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| Title: Re: FALSE APOSTLE PAUL PART 3 |
04 Jan 2007 09:07:29 AM |
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(1Wit) wrote:
Jesus was not speaking to the ( national assembly of covenant Israel,) When he was ask
about the greatest commandment. Mat 22:37 Nor was James when he called The second
commandment ( Love thy neighbor ) the royal commandment. Jesus said Mat 5:18 Till
heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till
all be fulfilled. And again John 10:35 and the scripture cannot be broken; 1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth
is not in him. Therefore Paul is a liar when he taught you to ignore the law. I have
found that ungodly men use ( not under the law ) as a justification for crimes against
God and man. They will use any excuse. Such as saying, this law does not apply to me,
it was for Israel.
Again in case you missed it. Paul taught you to ignore the law. God said keep my laws
and also Jesus said keep my laws. Paul failed to hear the importance of the law.
Therefore he walked in darkness without a lamp, even his prayer was an abomination.
The house that Jesus set up had twelve houses. One failed and was replaced. Paul could
not have been an ambasator to a house he was not a menber of. Jesus divided his house
into twelve parts after the twelve tribes. Therefore Paul had no authority to promise
anything or any part of these houses. Paul was the odd man out. Just because he lied
and said that he spoke to Jesus doesn't make it the truth. After all, he did admit to
being a liar and a deciever. A tree is known by it's fruit. What I see today in the
christian church, has fulfilled the doctrine of Paul. This is why the church is full
of hypocrites and decievers. People who refuse to hear the law. Mat 25:45 Then shall
he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the
least of these, ye did it not to me. Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into
everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. This is not the (
national assembly of covenant Israel ) that he was talking to.
THE FIRST WITNESS.
Hello 1Wit:
The important thing to recognize here is that Jesus came specificly to
backslidden Jews, while Paul's letters were to converted gentiles who
had no tradition of keeping redundant Israelite laws.
The backslidden Jews of Jesus' ministry, kept old redundant Israelite
laws because they thought that is what made them Jews, and Jesus
obviously explained to them that the legal aspect of those laws
disappeared with the nation of Israel. However, if a Jew used this new
knowledge to stop practicing the law, then he was obviously a liar and
a hippocrit because and his heart was not right. One would not become
a true follower of Jesus in order to live less morally...LOL
Paul, on the other hand, was dealing with gentile converts in his
letters, and he was not saying that the law is bad, but simply that
keeping the law that the Jews kept, was not what made them Jews. If
the Judaizers could convince the gentile converts that they had to keep
the old redundant Israelite laws, the gentiles, who had been converted
to "true" Jews, would simply become backslidden Jews, just like the
backslidden Jews that were the focus of Jesus' mission.
Paul pointed out to his gentile converts, that the point was not to
keep a particular set of specific laws, but to keep the national laws
of the nation which has the rule over you. After all, the national
laws of the long gone nation of Israel, were legislated for the same
purpose as the laws of any nation...maintaining a civil society.
Keeping the redundant national laws of a nation which had ceased to
exist almost 1000 years earlier, was just a tradition, and a stumbling
block to the Jews, which kept them from keeping the real laws of God,
which are to love God, and love one another.
Paul never ever suggested that his gentile converts should not love
God, or love one another, and the problem that the
"legalists"(Judaizers in Paul's day) had, was that they could not
separate the national laws of a non-existent nation, from the laws that
God had given that nation as a condition of a covenant.
There was nothing wrong with having a tradition of keeping the
redundant laws of a non-existent nation, but when it replaced the
gospel, as the focus of Judaism, it became a stumbling block.
When Paul was converted, the fact that he had been a well studied
pharisee, made it easier for him to understand the principles involved
in the gospel that Jesus preached, but when Paul attempts to explain
those principles, the legalists and Judaizers could not get their mind
off the tradition of keeping a redindant law, long enough to understand
what he was saying.
Do you understand the point that I am trying to make?
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