For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!

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Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"Craig Chilton"
Date:	29 Jan 2004 09:01:09 AM
Object:	For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!

James Riske <james_riske@mail15_dot_com> wrote:

Do prove that "straight allies almost certainly are in greater
numbers than the gays".

ROTFL!!!!! That's one of the **easiest** things in the world to do!
The *highest* percentage of gays that anyone claims, in the
population, is 10%. So just for fun (and to YOUR advantage, in this
case), let's assume that figure is true. HOWEVER... recent polls
have shown that the percentage of people in America who would
be supportive of same-sex civil unions (but not "marriage,'
semantically-speaking... and really, that's the ONLY difference) is
now very close to 50%. Any straight person who would not object
to same-sex civil unions are ALLIES of the gays. And if we used
only 40% (and there are more allies than that, as I just said), then
we'd have the following:
Gays 10% -- 29,000,000 Americans
Straight Allies 30% -- 87,000,000 Americans
___ __________________
TOTAL Gays & Allies 40% -- 116,000,000 Americans
Ratio: 3-1. Three times more straight allies than gays.
AT LEAST!
Using more realistic numbers; 5% of population is gay, and 45%
of population favors the granting of the right of gays to have same-sex
civil unions, we have the following figures, which probably approximate
today's reality very closely:
Gays 5% -- 14,500,000 Americans
Straight Allies 45% -- 130,500,000 Americans
___ __________________
TOTAL Gays & Allies 50% -- 145,000,000 Americans
Ratio: 9-1. NINE times more straight allies than gays.
Using either set of figures, bigots who think that straight allies
of the GLTB Community are few in number, LOSE, big-time.
Three-to-one is the BEST they can do with such a claim, but that's
unrealistically low. Straight ALLIES of the gays vastly **outnumber**
the gays, themselves. By approximately NINE to one.
From:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Relationships/same_sex_marriage_poll_040121.html
________________________________________________
Views of Same-Sex Marriage and Civil Unions:
"Marriage" -- Make legal: 41% Keep Illegal: 55%
"Civil Unions" -- Make legal: 46% Keep Illegal: 51%
________________________________________________
This reliable ABC News Poll PROVES the idiocy of homophobic
bigots when they claim that gays have relatively few straight allies.
.

User: "Osprey"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 09:18:49 AM

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:40211ead.4426052@netnews.mchsi.com...

James Riske <james_riske@mail15_dot_com> wrote:

Do prove that "straight allies almost certainly are in greater
numbers than the gays".

We just want to have marriage protected, which it will be.
Let them have their civil unions, or what ever you want to call it.
Speaking for myself, I could care less.
As long as they don't expect or force me to have to accept their lifestyle.
Because I will not.
And if we used

only 40% (and there are more allies than that, as I just said), then
we'd have the following:

Gays 10% -- 29,000,000 Americans
Straight Allies 30% -- 87,000,000 Americans
___ __________________

TOTAL Gays & Allies 40% -- 116,000,000 Americans

Ratio: 3-1. Three times more straight allies than gays.

AT LEAST!

Using more realistic numbers; 5% of population is gay, and 45%
of population favors the granting of the right of gays to have same-sex
civil unions, we have the following figures, which probably approximate
today's reality very closely:

Gays 5% -- 14,500,000 Americans
Straight Allies 45% -- 130,500,000 Americans
___ __________________

TOTAL Gays & Allies 50% -- 145,000,000 Americans

Ratio: 9-1. NINE times more straight allies than gays.

Using either set of figures, bigots who think that straight allies
of the GLTB Community are few in number, LOSE, big-time.
Three-to-one is the BEST they can do with such a claim, but that's
unrealistically low. Straight ALLIES of the gays vastly **outnumber**
the gays, themselves. By approximately NINE to one.

From:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Relationships/same_sex_marriage_poll_040121.html

________________________________________________

Views of Same-Sex Marriage and Civil Unions:

"Marriage" -- Make legal: 41% Keep Illegal: 55%

"Civil Unions" -- Make legal: 46% Keep Illegal: 51%
________________________________________________

This reliable ABC News Poll PROVES the idiocy of homophobic
bigots when they claim that gays have relatively few straight allies.

Are you heterophobic?
Seems that you calling those who don't agree with gays bigots, makes you the
bigot.
big�ot ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or
politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
You are classifying people into groups, then labeling them, and you are very
strongly partial to your own group.
Looks like you fit the bill of bigot.
Might want to rethink your position a bit and realize, you are no better.
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User: "John"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 09:25:21 AM

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:n-idnfnmRbzkvoTdRVn-tA@comcast.com...

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:40211ead.4426052@netnews.mchsi.com...

James Riske <james_riske@mail15_dot_com> wrote:

Do prove that "straight allies almost certainly are in greater
numbers than the gays".

ROTFL!!!!! That's one of the **easiest** things in the world to

do!

The *highest* percentage of gays that anyone claims, in the
population, is 10%. So just for fun (and to YOUR advantage, in this
case), let's assume that figure is true. HOWEVER... recent polls
have shown that the percentage of people in America who would
be supportive of same-sex civil unions (but not "marriage,'
semantically-speaking... and really, that's the ONLY difference) is
now very close to 50%. Any straight person who would not object
to same-sex civil unions are ALLIES of the gays.

lifestyle.

Because I will not.

And if we used

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Relationships/same_sex_marriage_poll_040121.html

Are you heterophobic?
Seems that you calling those who don't agree with gays bigots, makes you

the

bigot.

big�ot ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or
politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

You are classifying people into groups, then labeling them, and you are

very

strongly partial to your own group.

Looks like you fit the bill of bigot.

Might want to rethink your position a bit and realize, you are no better.

A better descriptor for Craig would be an 'ideologue' (very close cousin to
a narrow-minded bigot... lol).
.

User: "David Whitesen."
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 03:43:27 PM

John "The bigot" wrote:

A better descriptor for Craig would be an 'ideologue' (very close cousin to
a narrow-minded bigot... lol).

This is the newest attempt of conservatives to twist a word or
phrase around to throw it back at the user. When in fact by
your definition as you use the word bigot, a slave would be
a bigot for demanding equal rights and equal treatment. That the
slave is a bigot because he is intolerant of his masters intolerance.
How dare he. The only ones with a homosexual agenda are your
lot (you Trent Lott) the homosexual agenda of hate.
.

User: "Adam H."
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 10:24:40 AM

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:18:49 -0500, "Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:40211ead.4426052@netnews.mchsi.com...

James Riske <james_riske@mail15_dot_com> wrote:

Do prove that "straight allies almost certainly are in greater
numbers than the gays".

We just want to have marriage protected, which it will be.

And how does gays getting married threaten YOUR marriage in any way?
How does it affect it at all? Detail for us which parts of your
marriage are under imminent threat from two guys marrying each other.

Let them have their civil unions, or what ever you want to call it.
Speaking for myself, I could care less.

Seems you can, what with all the irrational fear of gays getting
married (and yet you have yet to come up with a good reason why they
shouldn't).

As long as they don't expect or force me to have to accept their lifestyle.
Because I will not.

How does gays getting married force acceptance on you? That's as dumb
as saying that I'm forced to 'accept' children.

And if we used

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Relationships/same_sex_marriage_poll_040121.html

Oh, dear. Bobby proves once again that he can't read.
Craig's not gay, Bobby. Neither am I. See how that fits into your
definition.

You are classifying people into groups, then labeling them, and you are very
strongly partial to your own group.

Or are you now saying Craig is gay?

Looks like you fit the bill of bigot.

Might want to rethink your position a bit and realize, you are no better.

Might want to read for content and see how your definition doesn't
apply.
---
"The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation."
-Pierre Trudeau, 1967
.

User: "Osprey"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 12:13:21 PM

"Adam H." <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:mlci10d8q5huocl7pm7vaivnkshrjthl9g@4ax.com...

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:18:49 -0500, "Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:40211ead.4426052@netnews.mchsi.com...

James Riske <james_riske@mail15_dot_com> wrote:

Do prove that "straight allies almost certainly are in

greater

numbers than the gays".

ROTFL!!!!! That's one of the **easiest** things in the world to

do!

We just want to have marriage protected, which it will be.

And how does gays getting married threaten YOUR marriage in any way?

Marriage is a union between man, woman, and God.
If the homosexuals want to have their union, let them.

How does it affect it at all? Detail for us which parts of your
marriage are under imminent threat from two guys marrying each other.

Let them have their civil unions, or what ever you want to call it.
Speaking for myself, I could care less.

Seems you can, what with all the irrational fear of gays getting
married (and yet you have yet to come up with a good reason why they
shouldn't).

As long as they don't expect or force me to have to accept their

lifestyle.

Because I will not.

How does gays getting married force acceptance on you? That's as dumb
as saying that I'm forced to 'accept' children.

You don't read well do you?
Wait, I all ready know the answer to that.

And if we used

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Relationships/same_sex_marriage_poll_

040121.html

Are you heterophobic?
Seems that you calling those who don't agree with gays bigots, makes you

the

bigot.

big�ot ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race,

politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Oh, dear. Bobby proves once again that he can't read.

Craig's not gay, Bobby. Neither am I. See how that fits into your
definition.

I didn't say Craig was gay. As far as you go, I don't know if you are or you
are not.
If you are, stop hiding.

You are classifying people into groups, then labeling them, and you are

very

strongly partial to your own group.

Or are you now saying Craig is gay?

Looks like you fit the bill of bigot.

Might want to rethink your position a bit and realize, you are no better.

Might want to read for content and see how your definition doesn't
apply.

You might want to learn what bigot means.

---

"The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation."
-Pierre Trudeau, 1967

User: "Adam H."
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 12:27:34 PM

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:13:21 -0500, "Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:

"Adam H." <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:mlci10d8q5huocl7pm7vaivnkshrjthl9g@4ax.com...

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:18:49 -0500, "Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:40211ead.4426052@netnews.mchsi.com...

James Riske <james_riske@mail15_dot_com> wrote:

Do prove that "straight allies almost certainly are in

greater

numbers than the gays".

ROTFL!!!!! That's one of the **easiest** things in the world to

do!

We just want to have marriage protected, which it will be.

I have to ask what you believe denying gays the right to marriage
ACTUALLY protects. Show us your reasoning - show us how letting gays
marry diminishes someone else's marriage.

And how does gays getting married threaten YOUR marriage in any way?

Marriage is a union between man, woman, and God.

No, it's not. Ever heard of a civil ceremony? No god there if you
don't want it.
Or are you now wishing to deny atheists marriage as well?

If the homosexuals want to have their union, let them.

So you aren't against gay marriage? You have yet to produce an
argument against it.

How does it affect it at all? Detail for us which parts of your
marriage are under imminent threat from two guys marrying each other.

Well? Let's see a reasoned argument for once.

Let them have their civil unions, or what ever you want to call it.
Speaking for myself, I could care less.

Seems you can, what with all the irrational fear of gays getting
married (and yet you have yet to come up with a good reason why they
shouldn't).

As long as they don't expect or force me to have to accept their

lifestyle.

Because I will not.

How does gays getting married force acceptance on you? That's as dumb
as saying that I'm forced to 'accept' children.

You don't read well do you?
Wait, I all ready know the answer to that.

Well? How does a gay couple marrying force something on you? Going to
answer the question or simply avoid it?

And if we used

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Relationships/same_sex_marriage_poll_

040121.html

Are you heterophobic?
Seems that you calling those who don't agree with gays bigots, makes you

the

bigot.

big�ot ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race,

politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Oh, dear. Bobby proves once again that he can't read.

Craig's not gay, Bobby. Neither am I. See how that fits into your
definition.

I didn't say Craig was gay. As far as you go, I don't know if you are or you
are not.
If you are, stop hiding.

'Hiding'? Do you really think that I'd feel the need to 'hide' that
from you, or anyone?
Actually, I bet you do, because I know for a fact that you want gays
to remain unknown and in the closet. Lucky for them that your
irrational fears don't count.

You are classifying people into groups, then labeling them, and you are

very

strongly partial to your own group.

Or are you now saying Craig is gay?

Well? You seem to be claiming that Craig's 'group' is homosexuals. Are
you claiming that he's gay?
After all, that's how you justify pinning a 'bigot' tag on him.

Looks like you fit the bill of bigot.

Might want to rethink your position a bit and realize, you are no better.

Might want to read for content and see how your definition doesn't
apply.

You might want to learn what bigot means.

I know. I also know that your definition up there CANNOT be applied to
me in this case, and I'm quite sure it doesn't apply to Craig either.
You strike out again. (I'll give you a hint - homosexuals are not my
'group', and that's why the word doesn't fit).
You, on the other hand, have shown that you are intolerant of atheists
and non-heterosexuals and so your own definition can easily be applied
to you.
---
"The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation."
-Pierre Trudeau, 1967
.

User: "Osprey"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 12:54:06 PM

"Adam H." <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:ijji10tcq2h3mv6l4ijqtacib0am9dkm8p@4ax.com...

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:13:21 -0500, "Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:

"Adam H." <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:mlci10d8q5huocl7pm7vaivnkshrjthl9g@4ax.com...

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:18:49 -0500, "Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:40211ead.4426052@netnews.mchsi.com...

James Riske <james_riske@mail15_dot_com> wrote:

Do prove that "straight allies almost certainly are in

greater

numbers than the gays".

ROTFL!!!!! That's one of the **easiest** things in the world

do!

We just want to have marriage protected, which it will be.

I have to ask what you believe denying gays the right to marriage
ACTUALLY protects. Show us your reasoning - show us how letting gays
marry diminishes someone else's marriage.

I did,

And how does gays getting married threaten YOUR marriage in any way?

Marriage is a union between man, woman, and God.

No, it's not.

Yes, it is. And MANY agree, even democrats.
Ever heard of a civil ceremony? No god there if you

don't want it.

Or are you now wishing to deny atheists marriage as well?

Don't lie and go to church then and get married.

If the homosexuals want to have their union, let them.

So you aren't against gay marriage?

Yes, I am.
You have yet to produce an

argument against it.

I don't have too, I am entitled to my opinion on the issue.
Either you are tolerant to accept that I have my opinion, or you are not.
If you are not, don't pretend to be a tolerant person.

How does it affect it at all? Detail for us which parts of your
marriage are under imminent threat from two guys marrying each other.

Well? Let's see a reasoned argument for once.

Let them have their civil unions, or what ever you want to call it.
Speaking for myself, I could care less.

Seems you can, what with all the irrational fear of gays getting
married (and yet you have yet to come up with a good reason why they
shouldn't).

As long as they don't expect or force me to have to accept their

lifestyle.

Because I will not.

How does gays getting married force acceptance on you? That's as dumb
as saying that I'm forced to 'accept' children.

You don't read well do you?
Wait, I all ready know the answer to that.

Well? How does a gay couple marrying force something on you? Going to
answer the question or simply avoid it?

Read it again, come back to me.
I said, As long as they don't EXPECT or FORCE me to have to accept their
lifestyle
You are leaving out the word "expect"
I will not accept it. Simple as that. Got a problem with it?

And if we used

same-sex

civil unions, we have the following figures, which probably

approximate

today's reality very closely:

Gays 5% -- 14,500,000 Americans
Straight Allies 45% -- 130,500,000 Americans
___ __________________

TOTAL Gays & Allies 50% -- 145,000,000 Americans

Ratio: 9-1. NINE times more straight allies than gays.

Using either set of figures, bigots who think that straight

allies

of the GLTB Community are few in number, LOSE, big-time.
Three-to-one is the BEST they can do with such a claim, but that's
unrealistically low. Straight ALLIES of the gays vastly

**outnumber**

the gays, themselves. By approximately NINE to one.

From:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Relationships/same_sex_marriage_poll

040121.html

________________________________________________

Views of Same-Sex Marriage and Civil Unions:

"Marriage" -- Make legal: 41% Keep Illegal:

55%

"Civil Unions" -- Make legal: 46% Keep Illegal: 51%
________________________________________________

This reliable ABC News Poll PROVES the idiocy of homophobic
bigots when they claim that gays have relatively few straight

allies.

Are you heterophobic?
Seems that you calling those who don't agree with gays bigots, makes

you

the

bigot.

big�ot ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion,

race,

politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Oh, dear. Bobby proves once again that he can't read.

Craig's not gay, Bobby. Neither am I. See how that fits into your
definition.

I didn't say Craig was gay. As far as you go, I don't know if you are or

you

are not.
If you are, stop hiding.

'Hiding'? Do you really think that I'd feel the need to 'hide' that
from you, or anyone?

Hey, if you are gay, your gay...I don't care. I don't know if you are or
you are not.
You say your not, but that doesn't mean I have to believe you.

Actually, I bet you do, because I know for a fact that you want gays
to remain unknown and in the closet.

I do? Well, since you are stating this as a fact, you can back it up with
some evidence.
Where is your evidence to support that?
You will need quotes, message IDs as well.
Lucky for them that your

irrational fears don't count.

You are classifying people into groups, then labeling them, and you

are

very

strongly partial to your own group.

Or are you now saying Craig is gay?

Well? You seem to be claiming that Craig's 'group' is homosexuals. Are
you claiming that he's gay?

After all, that's how you justify pinning a 'bigot' tag on him.

Nope

Looks like you fit the bill of bigot.

Might want to rethink your position a bit and realize, you are no

better.

Might want to read for content and see how your definition doesn't
apply.

You might want to learn what bigot means.

I know.

Sorry, but it appears you don't.
I also know that your definition up there CANNOT be applied to

me in this case, and I'm quite sure it doesn't apply to Craig either.
You strike out again. (I'll give you a hint - homosexuals are not my
'group', and that's why the word doesn't fit).

You, on the other hand, have shown that you are intolerant of atheists
and non-heterosexuals and so your own definition can easily be applied
to you.
---

"The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation."
-Pierre Trudeau, 1967

User: "--sexkitten--"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 05:58:17 PM

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:6oadnRRvhaqVy4TdRVn-ug@comcast.com...

"Adam H." <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:ijji10tcq2h3mv6l4ijqtacib0am9dkm8p@4ax.com...

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:13:21 -0500, "Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:

"Adam H." <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:mlci10d8q5huocl7pm7vaivnkshrjthl9g@4ax.com...

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:18:49 -0500, "Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:40211ead.4426052@netnews.mchsi.com...

James Riske <james_riske@mail15_dot_com> wrote:

Do prove that "straight allies almost certainly are in

greater

numbers than the gays".

ROTFL!!!!! That's one of the **easiest** things in the world

do!

The *highest* percentage of gays that anyone claims, in the
population, is 10%. So just for fun (and to YOUR advantage, in

this

case), let's assume that figure is true. HOWEVER... recent polls
have shown that the percentage of people in America who would
be supportive of same-sex civil unions (but not "marriage,'
semantically-speaking... and really, that's the ONLY difference)

now very close to 50%. Any straight person who would not object
to same-sex civil unions are ALLIES of the gays.

We just want to have marriage protected, which it will be.

I have to ask what you believe denying gays the right to marriage
ACTUALLY protects. Show us your reasoning - show us how letting gays
marry diminishes someone else's marriage.

I did,

And how does gays getting married threaten YOUR marriage in any way?

Marriage is a union between man, woman, and God.

No, it's not.

Yes, it is. And MANY agree, even democrats.

No it isn't, he's right. It is and has always been a dolled- up financial
and property rights union.
Which is a lot of what they are looking for, as I understand it- insurance,
death benefits, etc.
--
God is a noise people make when they're too tired to think anymore.
-Edward Abbey
.

User: "Fletch F. Fletch"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 01:27:44 PM

Marriage is a union between man, woman, and God.

No, it's not.

Yes, it is. And MANY agree, even democrats.

Agree with what? That marriage is necessarily "a union between man, woman,
and God"? Who would agree with that? It is demonstrably false. My father
is a good example. No God in the ceremony. No belief in God present. None
required.

Ever heard of a civil ceremony? No god there if you

don't want it.

Or are you now wishing to deny atheists marriage as well?

Don't lie and go to church then and get married.

What does this mean? Are you now against atheist marriage? Wow. Now, not
only do you have to be straight to get married, but you must believe in a
God. Which God?

You have yet to produce an
argument against it.

I don't have too, I am entitled to my opinion on the issue.
Either you are tolerant to accept that I have my opinion, or you are not.
If you are not, don't pretend to be a tolerant person.

An opinion without reason, how useful. Time to put away childish things.

Well? How does a gay couple marrying force something on you? Going to
answer the question or simply avoid it?

What does this mean? You will not accept gay marriage even if it becomes
legal fact? Would this not make you delusional?
Fletch
.

User: "Osprey"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 01:47:41 PM

"Fletch F. Fletch" <notme31415@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Q8dSb.132$o8.120@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...

Marriage is a union between man, woman, and God.

No, it's not.

Yes, it is. And MANY agree, even democrats.

Agree with what? That marriage is necessarily "a union between man,

woman,

and God"? Who would agree with that? It is demonstrably false. My

father

is a good example. No God in the ceremony. No belief in God present.

None

required.

Many Democrats, including Republicans do not support gay marriage. They do
support a civil union.
It is MY opinion that God is included in marriage.
If you don't believe in God, don't go into a church and get married.

Ever heard of a civil ceremony? No god there if you

don't want it.

Or are you now wishing to deny atheists marriage as well?

Don't lie and go to church then and get married.

What does this mean? Are you now against atheist marriage?

Let me see if I can break it down for you. It appears you are a bit slow.
If you want to get married, and you don't believe in God, stay out of the
church.
Go to city hall or Vegas.
Wow. Now, not

only do you have to be straight to get married, but you must believe in a
God. Which God?

There is but one God. Sorry you don't know this.

You have yet to produce an
argument against it.

I don't have too, I am entitled to my opinion on the issue.
Either you are tolerant to accept that I have my opinion, or you are

not.

If you are not, don't pretend to be a tolerant person.

An opinion without reason, how useful. Time to put away childish things.

If you are not tolerant, then admit it.

Well? How does a gay couple marrying force something on you? Going to
answer the question or simply avoid it?

What does this mean? You will not accept gay marriage even if it becomes
legal fact? Would this not make you delusional?

What does it mean? Boy are you slow.
It means don't expect me to accept homosexuality. I will not.
Do you understand yet?
Don't force me to try to accept it. I will not.
Do you understand yet?
If you want to hump men, hump them...I don't care what you do behind closed
doors.
If you prefer the stick, do what you need. I don't care. I don't ask about
it, I don't look for it, I don't want to see it, and I don't want to hear
about it.
Any questions?
Good. That is settled.

Fletch

User: "Amanda the F-ing GREAT!"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 08:09:23 PM

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message news:<StudnV7Zg6MR_4Td4p2dnA@comcast.com>...

Many Democrats, including Republicans do not support gay marriage. They do
support a civil union.

Democrats aren't necessarily liberals though. Republicans don't have
to be conservatives, either. It's not a party issue.

It is MY opinion that God is included in marriage.

If you don't believe in God, don't go into a church and get married.

Tell that to Britney Spears. She can get married as a joke for no
reason that the other person was a man, but two women who really love
each other and have the support of their church can't get married?
Many Christian denominations such as Quakers and Congregationalists
WILL marry two people of the same sex, but it's not recognized by the
government. And some other religions will also support a same-sex
marriage.

There is but one God. Sorry you don't know this.

Who, Pat Robertson? I'm not aware of any one true god of any major
religion that would want you to act like that.

So your response to an argument is some vague phrases about how you
don't accept other people's business? Even if marriage is something
"sacred", why is denying a same-sex couple to call their relationship
"marriage" and get the benefits and responsibility that means going to
hurt you, your religion, or your marriage? How come a Buddhist wedding
is NOT a threat to the "sanctity of marriage", even though it's -
*sarcastic gasp* - not from the bible?!?
So you don't "accept" it. I don't "accept" the man as the "head of the
household", but I don't advocate outlawing it for people who do chose
to live in such an arrangement. It's not for you to decide how other
people should live their lives. If two women want to get married, the
Catholic Church doesn't have to perform the ceremony, just like they
don't marry divorced people. Only the SECULAR government has to
register it. I hope you understand that.
.

User: "The other Donald"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 09:20:30 PM

"Amanda the F-ing GREAT!" <blakcat_thirteen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a57d66c7.0401291809.609eb079@posting.google.com...

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message

news:<StudnV7Zg6MR_4Td4p2dnA@comcast.com>...

Many Democrats, including Republicans do not support gay marriage. They

support a civil union.

Democrats aren't necessarily liberals though. Republicans don't have
to be conservatives, either. It's not a party issue.

It is MY opinion that God is included in marriage.

If you don't believe in God, don't go into a church and get married.

There is but one God. Sorry you don't know this.

Who, Pat Robertson? I'm not aware of any one true god of any major
religion that would want you to act like that.

closed

doors.
If you prefer the stick, do what you need. I don't care. I don't ask

about

it, I don't look for it, I don't want to see it, and I don't want to

hear

about it.
Any questions?
Good. That is settled.

So your response to an argument is some vague phrases about how you
don't accept other people's business? Even if marriage is something
"sacred", why is denying a same-sex couple to call their relationship
"marriage" and get the benefits and responsibility that means going to
hurt you, your religion, or your marriage? How come a Buddhist wedding
is NOT a threat to the "sanctity of marriage", even though it's -
*sarcastic gasp* - not from the bible?!?

So you don't "accept" it. I don't "accept" the man as the "head of the
household", but I don't advocate outlawing it for people who do chose
to live in such an arrangement. It's not for you to decide how other
people should live their lives. If two women want to get married, the
Catholic Church doesn't have to perform the ceremony, just like they
don't marry divorced people. Only the SECULAR government has to
register it. I hope you understand that.

I hate to tell you this, but you're trying to reason with a rock.
Heishman is oblivious to reasonable thought and deathly allergic to
intelligent debate. You are wasting your time.
My marriage of ten years was purely secular. My wife and I are both
Atheists, but our marriage is recognized, and enforced, by the law. The
"church" means less than squat.
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
.

User: "Osprey"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 08:35:40 PM

"Amanda the F-ing GREAT!" <blakcat_thirteen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a57d66c7.0401291809.609eb079@posting.google.com...

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message

news:<StudnV7Zg6MR_4Td4p2dnA@comcast.com>...

Many Democrats, including Republicans do not support gay marriage. They

support a civil union.

Democrats aren't necessarily liberals though. Republicans don't have
to be conservatives, either. It's not a party issue.

That is true, and a very good point

It is MY opinion that God is included in marriage.

If you don't believe in God, don't go into a church and get married.

As far as Britney Spears, I lost respect for her with her act with Madonna.
What a talented singer she is, and to act like that.
I just don't support gay marriage, sorry. That is my opinion. If you
support it, that is fine. That is something you can be comfortable with.

There is but one God. Sorry you don't know this.

Who, Pat Robertson? I'm not aware of any one true god of any major
religion that would want you to act like that.

Well since the bible strongly denounces religion, I can't see where God
would approve of homosexual marriage.

closed

doors.
If you prefer the stick, do what you need. I don't care. I don't ask

about

it, I don't look for it, I don't want to see it, and I don't want to

hear

about it.
Any questions?
Good. That is settled.

So your response to an argument is some vague phrases about how you
don't accept other people's business? Even if marriage is something
"sacred", why is denying a same-sex couple to call their relationship
"marriage" and get the benefits and responsibility that means going to
hurt you, your religion, or your marriage? How come a Buddhist wedding
is NOT a threat to the "sanctity of marriage", even though it's -
*sarcastic gasp* - not from the bible?!?

So you don't "accept" it. I don't "accept" the man as the "head of the
household", but I don't advocate outlawing it for people who do chose
to live in such an arrangement. It's not for you to decide how other
people should live their lives. If two women want to get married, the
Catholic Church doesn't have to perform the ceremony, just like they
don't marry divorced people. Only the SECULAR government has to
register it. I hope you understand that.

We all are entitled to our opinions. I respect yours
.

User: "Loose Cannon"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	30 Jan 2004 11:11:24 AM

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:gPWdnQw9LJi-X4TdRVn-sw@comcast.com...

"Amanda the F-ing GREAT!" <blakcat_thirteen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a57d66c7.0401291809.609eb079@posting.google.com...

snipped to salient comments, such as they are<

There is but one God. Sorry you don't know this.

Who, Pat Robertson? I'm not aware of any one true god of any major
religion that would want you to act like that.

Well since the bible strongly denounces religion,

Well, it's settled then. Ostrich says the Bible denounces religion. 2000
years of factional fighting for naught. Who knew?
Everyone can go home now. Thanks for playing.
"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat
you with experience."
.

User: "Fletch F. Fletch"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 02:14:39 PM

Many Democrats, including Republicans do not support gay marriage. They do
support a civil union.
It is MY opinion that God is included in marriage.

But it is not the current state of the law in the U.S., so your opinion is
moot. Marriage is, in fact, NOT NECESSARILY "a union between man, woman,
and God". Currently, for a legal marriage, just the man and the woman are
required. Do you acknowledge this?

If you don't believe in God, don't go into a church and get married.

You got it.

Let me see if I can break it down for you. It appears you are a bit slow.
If you want to get married, and you don't believe in God, stay out of the
church.
Go to city hall or Vegas.

Okay, so you do see that marriage does not require God.

There is but one God. Sorry you don't know this.

Chuckle. So your ancient stories are right and all others are wrong. At
what point does this finally strike you as silly?

An opinion without reason, how useful. Time to put away childish

things.

If you are not tolerant, then admit it.

I'm a heterosexual, Republican fighting for gay marriage. I think I am more
than tolerant. I think I am accepting.
If you want your opinion to have any weight, perhaps you should back it up
with reason. Reason does not include saying something like, "A writer from
a primitive, agrarian society said so 2000 years ago."

What does this mean? You will not accept gay marriage even if it

becomes

legal fact? Would this not make you delusional?

closed

doors.
If you prefer the stick, do what you need. I don't care. I don't ask

about

it, I don't look for it, I don't want to see it, and I don't want to hear
about it.

There it is, the intimation that I"m gay. Actually, I commend you for not
actually calling me *****. That is the usual reasoned response that I get.
Again, what does all of this mean? You may be a bit slow, so I will be more
pointed. How will your 'not accepting' evidence itself? Will you simply
brood for the rest of your life? Or will you say mean things to openly gay
people? Will you protest gay marriages? Will you beat gay married people?
Will you treat them as any other? How will your tolerance show itself?
Fletch
.

User: "Osprey"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 02:23:53 PM

"Fletch F. Fletch" <notme31415@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:PQdSb.10267$bx.3741@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...

Many Democrats, including Republicans do not support gay marriage. They

support a civil union.
It is MY opinion that God is included in marriage.

If you don't believe in God, don't go into a church and get married.

You got it.

Good

Let me see if I can break it down for you. It appears you are a bit

slow.

If you want to get married, and you don't believe in God, stay out of

the

church.
Go to city hall or Vegas.

Okay, so you do see that marriage does not require God.

In my opinion, God is the center of all good marriages.

There is but one God. Sorry you don't know this.

Chuckle. So your ancient stories are right and all others are wrong. At
what point does this finally strike you as silly?

You don't need to discuss this if you don't believe. Or are you just out to
make fun of people?
So since you don't believe in God, no sense in going further with this part
of the discussion.
I believe, you don't, end of story. If you feel the need to laugh at people,
maybe you should check with your own security on your opinion.

An opinion without reason, how useful. Time to put away childish

things.

If you are not tolerant, then admit it.

I'm a heterosexual, Republican fighting for gay marriage.

Hmm, now why don't I believe that?
I think I am more

than tolerant. I think I am accepting.

Doesn't look that way at all to me

If you want your opinion to have any weight, perhaps you should back it up
with reason. Reason does not include saying something like, "A writer

from

a primitive, agrarian society said so 2000 years ago."

What does this mean? You will not accept gay marriage even if it

becomes

legal fact? Would this not make you delusional?

closed

doors.
If you prefer the stick, do what you need. I don't care. I don't ask

about

it, I don't look for it, I don't want to see it, and I don't want to

hear

about it.

There it is, the intimation that I"m gay.

As I said, maybe you should check with your own security
Actually, I commend you for not

actually calling me *****.

I don't do that, nor do I laugh at others or chuckle if they believe
something I don't.
That is the usual reasoned response that I get.

Again, what does all of this mean? You may be a bit slow, so I will be

pointed. How will your 'not accepting' evidence itself? Will you simply
brood for the rest of your life? Or will you say mean things to openly

gay

people? Will you protest gay marriages? Will you beat gay married

people?

Will you treat them as any other? How will your tolerance show itself?

Not accepting evidence? What evidence?
Brooding? Not hardly. I am very secure with myself, it appears you are not
though.
I know hundreds of gay people, we talk about other things.
Yes, I will protest by voting against politicians who support it.
Will I beat them? Beat them at what?
I treat others as they treat me. If they disrespect me, I disrepect back.
As far as tolerance goes, I think I am ahead of the game in this area.
Any more questions?
Have a nice day

Fletch

User: "Fletch F. Fletch"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 02:57:36 PM

Okay, so you do see that marriage does not require God.

In my opinion, God is the center of all good marriages.

Fair enough. But this opinion has no place in law.

There is but one God. Sorry you don't know this.

Chuckle. So your ancient stories are right and all others are wrong.

what point does this finally strike you as silly?

You don't need to discuss this if you don't believe. Or are you just out

make fun of people?

Yes, you bring clean hands with your "Sorry you don't know this" comment.
Perhaps you meant to say that you were sorry I didn't believe this.

So since you don't believe in God, no sense in going further with this

part

of the discussion.
I believe, you don't, end of story.

No doubt. But this removes you from any reasoned discussion that touches on
biblical topics.

If you feel the need to laugh at people,
maybe you should check with your own security on your opinion.

No, I'm a bit slow, remember? Not that someone with your tolerance would
ever write such a thing.

An opinion without reason, how useful. Time to put away childish

things.

If you are not tolerant, then admit it.

I'm a heterosexual, Republican fighting for gay marriage.

Hmm, now why don't I believe that?

Because your bias blinds you. Because you want me to be gay and liberal.
Because if I'm a straight Republican fighting for gay marriage, then maybe
there are cracks in the foundation upon which you stand.

I think I am more
than tolerant. I think I am accepting.

Doesn't look that way at all to me

Hard to see from way up on the moral high ground I suppose.

Actually, I commend you for not

actually calling me *****.

I don't do that, nor do I laugh at others or chuckle if they believe
something I don't.

No, you call them slow.

That is the usual reasoned response that I get.

Again, what does all of this mean? You may be a bit slow, so I will be

pointed. How will your 'not accepting' evidence itself? Will you

simply

brood for the rest of your life? Or will you say mean things to openly

gay

people? Will you protest gay marriages? Will you beat gay married

people?

Will you treat them as any other? How will your tolerance show itself?

Not accepting evidence? What evidence?

Evidence is the verb in that sentence. I put single quotes around 'not
accepting' to try to make that clear.

Brooding? Not hardly. I am very secure with myself, it appears you are

not

though.

???

I know hundreds of gay people, we talk about other things.

All the while, you don't accept them. How lovely that must be for them?

Yes, I will protest by voting against politicians who support it.
Will I beat them? Beat them at what?
I treat others as they treat me. If they disrespect me, I disrepect back.
As far as tolerance goes, I think I am ahead of the game in this area.

Any more questions?

Have a nice day

You too.
Fletch
.

User: "Osprey"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 03:22:08 PM

"Fletch F. Fletch" <notme31415@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4teSb.276$o8.232@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...

Okay, so you do see that marriage does not require God.

In my opinion, God is the center of all good marriages.

Fair enough. But this opinion has no place in law.

Then no need for you to chuckle about it.

There is but one God. Sorry you don't know this.

Chuckle. So your ancient stories are right and all others are wrong.

what point does this finally strike you as silly?

You don't need to discuss this if you don't believe. Or are you just

out

make fun of people?

Yes, you bring clean hands with your "Sorry you don't know this" comment.
Perhaps you meant to say that you were sorry I didn't believe this.

Just pointing out your ignorance by laughing at others.

So since you don't believe in God, no sense in going further with this

part

of the discussion.
I believe, you don't, end of story.

No doubt. But this removes you from any reasoned discussion that touches

biblical topics.

I will discuss biblical topics with people who know about the bible. Not
atheist.
There is no reason for atheist to discuss the bible. The only reason atheist
do is to either
a) try to reaffirm their belief God doesn't exist
b) to try and change someone else
c) to belittle someone else
If you are so confident and sure, then you don't need to discuss it.

If you feel the need to laugh at people,
maybe you should check with your own security on your opinion.

No, I'm a bit slow, remember? Not that someone with your tolerance would
ever write such a thing.

An opinion without reason, how useful. Time to put away childish

things.

If you are not tolerant, then admit it.

I'm a heterosexual, Republican fighting for gay marriage.

Hmm, now why don't I believe that?

Because your bias blinds you.

And you have no bias?

Because you want me to be gay and liberal.

I never said that

Because if I'm a straight Republican fighting for gay marriage, then maybe
there are cracks in the foundation upon which you stand.

Think what you want, I don't believe you. Simple as that.

I think I am more
than tolerant. I think I am accepting.

Doesn't look that way at all to me

Hard to see from way up on the moral high ground I suppose.

Actually, I commend you for not

actually calling me *****.

I don't do that, nor do I laugh at others or chuckle if they believe
something I don't.

No, you call them slow.

Well, when you have to explain very simple things, what else is one to
think?

That is the usual reasoned response that I get.

Again, what does all of this mean? You may be a bit slow, so I will

pointed. How will your 'not accepting' evidence itself? Will you

simply

brood for the rest of your life? Or will you say mean things to

openly

gay

people? Will you protest gay marriages? Will you beat gay married

people?

Will you treat them as any other? How will your tolerance show

itself?

Not accepting evidence? What evidence?

Evidence is the verb in that sentence. I put single quotes around 'not
accepting' to try to make that clear.

What evidence would you be thinking of though?

Brooding? Not hardly. I am very secure with myself, it appears you are

not

though.

???

You don't understand?

I know hundreds of gay people, we talk about other things.

All the while, you don't accept them.

Wrong
I do accept them, I do NOT accept the act.
Do you know the difference or are you going to need another explanation?

How lovely that must be for them?

Did you say you were or were not bias?

Yes, I will protest by voting against politicians who support it.
Will I beat them? Beat them at what?
I treat others as they treat me. If they disrespect me, I disrepect

back.

As far as tolerance goes, I think I am ahead of the game in this area.

Any more questions?

Have a nice day

You too.

Fletch

User: "Fletch F. Fletch"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 04:01:33 PM

In my opinion, God is the center of all good marriages.

Fair enough. But this opinion has no place in law.

Then no need for you to chuckle about it.

But no reason I can't. Certainly if you can call me slow, I can chuckle
about your opinions without reasoning.

Yes, you bring clean hands with your "Sorry you don't know this"

comment.

Perhaps you meant to say that you were sorry I didn't believe this.

Just pointing out your ignorance by laughing at others.

How does my laughing at others show my ignorance exactly? I suspect you may
be ignorant of the defintion of ignorance.

I will discuss biblical topics with people who know about the bible. Not
atheist.

You are missing my point. I am not talking about exegesis. Do you really
think I want to discuss the bible with you? I am talking about issues about
which you use your faith to decide your position, like marriage, gay
marriage, etc. If your whole position is that you have faith that you know
the truth, then you are excluded from reasoning.

There is no reason for atheist to discuss the bible. The only reason

atheist

do is to either

a) try to reaffirm their belief God doesn't exist
b) to try and change someone else
c) to belittle someone else

Is bringing critical thinking and reasoning to someone so bad?
And, speaking for myself, I don't believe that God doesn't exist, I just see
no evidence that he does. Of course, you agree with me for all of the other
gods that people pray to, excepting yours.

If you are so confident and sure, then you don't need to discuss it.

I am skeptical.

Because your bias blinds you.

And you have no bias?

Yes, I do. I try my best to recognize how it effects my thinking. However,
I am, by nature, skeptical, and this often saves me.

Because you want me to be gay and liberal.

I never said that

No, I was laying out possibilities.

Because if I'm a straight Republican fighting for gay marriage, then

maybe

there are cracks in the foundation upon which you stand.

Think what you want, I don't believe you. Simple as that.

What don't you believe?

No, you call them slow.

Well, when you have to explain very simple things, what else is one to
think?

One could think that they are bad at explaining, or the thing is not so
simple, or others think more deeply.

Again, what does all of this mean? You may be a bit slow, so I will

pointed. How will your 'not accepting' evidence itself? Will you

simply

brood for the rest of your life? Or will you say mean things to

openly

gay

people? Will you protest gay marriages? Will you beat gay married

people?

Will you treat them as any other? How will your tolerance show

itself?

Not accepting evidence? What evidence?

Evidence is the verb in that sentence. I put single quotes around 'not
accepting' to try to make that clear.

What evidence would you be thinking of though?

Okay, pretend I wrote 'show' instead of 'evidence'.

Brooding? Not hardly. I am very secure with myself, it appears you

are

not

though.

???

You don't understand?

Exactly. Your statement seems like a non sequitur to me.

I know hundreds of gay people, we talk about other things.

All the while, you don't accept them.

Wrong
I do accept them, I do NOT accept the act.

You just don't accept their desires.

Do you know the difference or are you going to need another explanation?

Ah yes, the intellect that accepts what he is told looks down upon the one
that questions.

How lovely that must be for them?

Did you say you were or were not bias?

Another non sequitur?
Fletch
.

User: "Osprey"
Title: Re: For Every Gay Person, there are NINE Straight ALLIES!	29 Jan 2004 04:14:20 PM

"Fletch F. Fletch" <notme31415@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1pfSb.432$o8.371@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...

In my opinion, God is the center of all good marriages.

Fair enough. But this opinion has no place in law.

Then no need for you to chuckle about it.

But no reason I can't.

Well if you wish to remain immature, sure...by all means..you do that.
Certainly if you can call me slow, I can chuckle

about your opinions without reasoning.

Yes, you bring clean hands with your "Sorry you don't know this"

comment.

Perhaps you meant to say that you were sorry I didn't believe this.

Just pointing out your ignorance by laughing at others.

How does my laughing at others show my ignorance exactly?

You don't know?
I suspect you may

be ignorant of the defintion of ignorance.

I will discuss biblical topics with people who know about the bible. Not
atheist.

You are missing my point. I am not talking about exegesis. Do you really
think I want to discuss the bible with you?

Nope, and you will not either.
I am talking about issues about

which you use your faith to decide your position, like marriage, gay
marriage, etc. If your whole position is that you have faith that you

know

the truth, then you are excluded from reasoning.

Well, that is your opinion

There is no reason for atheist to discuss the bible. The only reason

atheist

do is to either

a) try to reaffirm their belief God doesn't exist
b) to try and change someone else
c) to belittle someone else

Is bringing critical thinking and reasoning to someone so bad?

And, speaking for myself, I don't believe that God doesn't exist, I just

see

no evidence that he does.

Ok, then you accept the possibility then. I can respect that.
Of course, you agree with me for all of the other

gods that people pray to, excepting yours.

Well, since I understand that most, if not almost all civilizations have
different names for God, and most accept that there is one God...what is
there to discuss?

If you are so confident and sure, then you don't need to discuss it.

I am skeptical.

Ok.

Because your bias blinds you.

And you have no bias?

Yes, I do.

Good, I am glad to see you admit that.
We all do.
I try my best to recognize how it effects my thinking. However,

I am, by nature, skeptical, and this often saves me.

I can respect that

Because you want me to be gay and liberal.

I never said that

No, I was laying out possibilities.

ok, again, I can respect your honesty

Because if I'm a straight Republican fighting for gay marriage, then

maybe

there are cracks in the foundation upon which you stand.

Think what you want, I don't believe you. Simple as that.

What don't you believe?

Look, I am starting to get to respect you...I am going to drop that part for
now.
Some of your statements in here, are making sense and I like your honesty.
I don't know if you are republican or not..you said you are..so I will just
accept it.

No, you call them slow.

Well, when you have to explain very simple things, what else is one to
think?

One could think that they are bad at explaining, or the thing is not so
simple, or others think more deeply.

Again, what does all of this mean? You may be a bit slow, so I

will

pointed. How will your 'not accepting' evidence itself? Will you

simply

brood for the rest of your life? Or will you say mean things to

openly

gay