"Dave Oldridge" <doldridgLEAVETHISOUT@hfx.eastlink.ca> wrote in
message news:Xns93ECD5D1ECA75doldridgsprintca@142.77.1.194...

"galia" <galia@netrover.com> wrote in
news:liK5b.66138$PD3.4684499@nnrp1.uunet.ca:
This argument has never been about what God COULD do, but about what
actually happened. And the scientific side of it is based, as is all
scientific theory, on the physical evidence.

Yeah, physical evidence, I know......and everything else you can't
explain, you call it magic. Nice logic...

Evolution is based on a study of the evidence at hand. We can
observe evolution in action and we have compelling evidence that
large scale evolution (speciation) has taken place throughout all
of life's history on earth. This is the foundation for the science
of evolution, not a religious belief.

Keep on trying...

Don't worry, people will keep on doing science, even if you get it
banned in your country. The penalty will simply be that you have to
buy the products of it from somebody else. Just don't come
caterwauling to the rest of us about how unfair it is that your
uneducated kids and your pseudoscientists can't get the prestige jobs
and don't hold the big-money patents, etc. And don't you DARE call
the result of your own wilful stupidity "persecution." Some of you
already owe people like St. Perpetua a very sincere apology for
misusing the word.

Why would I worry about science, I am not against it.

My argument is about the scientific community who either
deny a God, or put Him for the time being in a box, in case
they need Him. This is dishonest, because according to your own
logic for something to be true, it must be proven. Nobody can
prove the non-existance of God, so therefore they are just
in denial.

"Dave Oldridge" <doldridgLEAVETHISOUT@hfx.eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns93ECD5D1ECA75doldridgsprintca@142.77.1.194...

"galia" <galia@netrover.com> wrote in
news:liK5b.66138$PD3.4684499@nnrp1.uunet.ca:

"_AnonCoward" <abc@xyz.com> wrote in message
news:6QH5b.3448$AU.100200@twister.southeast.rr.com...

"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-0309030924380001@pm8-16.kalama.com...
: Foundation of Evolution
:
: There is really only one primary reason for believing in
: chemical evolution and that is a deep hatred of God the
: Creator.

<snip>


Ralf:
The "foundation for evolution" has nothing to do with a hatred of God
(deep, shallow or otherwise). That's just non-sense and illogical.

The foundation of evolution is nothing else but an attempt to find
another explanation for our existence beside a 'Creator God'!
Anything else is dishonest and illogical!

This is a lie. Most scientists who are dealing with evolution are NOT
trying to "debunk God." They leave that kind of nonsense to you
creationists, who do a marvellous job for ol' Nick by making it seem as
if you must be a total ignoramus to be a believer. I think the old
pastor who wrote this many years ago meant you people when he wrote it:

"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth,
the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion
and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions,
about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of
the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs,
stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being
certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and
dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably
giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these
topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing
situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and
laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant
individual is derided, but that people outside the household of
faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great
loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our
Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find
a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and
hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are
they going to believe those books in matters concerning the
resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom
of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on
facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the
light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy
Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren
when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and
are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our
sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and
obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy
Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which
they think support their position, although they understand neither
what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.
[1 Timothy 1.7]"

Want to try to guess who wrote it and when?

Athiests who study evolution don't believe in god (they can't hate
what they don't acknowledge) and theists (Jews, Christians, etc.) who
study evolution obviously don't hate god.

What else is new, besides atheist's not believing in God?

Of course atheists don't believe in God. But what you are not saying
here is that the most important work in evolutionary genetics in the

century was done by a couple of believers (one of whom survives and

teaches).

Notice the word 'believe', what does it tell you?
It tell's me that Christian's and Atheist's have one thing in common,
'A BELIEF'!
Nothing more, nothing less.
Atheist's base their belief in their OWN ability to make sense of our
'being';
therefore the only source they have to fall back on is science.
Science is, believe
it or not, I don't discredit it - just men's way of making sense of
the unknown.
With other words atheist's refuse to acknowledge that this unknown
territory - in it's enterity - has everything to do with a deity.

This argument has never been about what God COULD do, but about what
actually happened. And the scientific side of it is based, as is all
scientific theory, on the physical evidence.

Yeah, physical evidence, I know......and everything else you can't

you call it magic. Nice logic...

Evolution is based on a study of the evidence at hand. We can observe
evolution in action and we have compelling evidence that large scale
evolution (speciation) has taken place throughout all of life's
history on earth. This is the foundation for the science of
evolution, not a religious belief.

Keep on trying...

Don't worry, people will keep on doing science, even if you get it

in your country. The penalty will simply be that you have to buy the
products of it from somebody else. Just don't come caterwauling to the
rest of us about how unfair it is that your uneducated kids and your
pseudoscientists can't get the prestige jobs and don't hold the

patents, etc. And don't you DARE call the result of your own wilful
stupidity "persecution." Some of you already owe people like St.
Perpetua a very sincere apology for misusing the word.

Why would I worry about science, I am not against it.
My argument is about the scientific community who either
deny a God, or put Him for the time being in a box, in case
they need Him. This is dishonest, because according to your own
logic for something to be true, it must be proven. Nobody can
prove the non-existance of God, so therefore they are just
in denial.

"Dave Oldridge" <doldridgLEAVETHISOUT@hfx.eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns93ECD5D1ECA75doldridgsprintca@142.77.1.194...

"galia" <galia@netrover.com> wrote in
news:liK5b.66138$PD3.4684499@nnrp1.uunet.ca:

"_AnonCoward" <abc@xyz.com> wrote in message
news:6QH5b.3448$AU.100200@twister.southeast.rr.com...

"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-0309030924380001@pm8-16.kalama.com...
: Foundation of Evolution
:
: There is really only one primary reason for believing in
: chemical evolution and that is a deep hatred of God the
: Creator.

<snip>


Ralf:
The "foundation for evolution" has nothing to do with a hatred of God
(deep, shallow or otherwise). That's just non-sense and illogical.

The foundation of evolution is nothing else but an attempt to find
another explanation for our existence beside a 'Creator God'!
Anything else is dishonest and illogical!

This is a lie. Most scientists who are dealing with evolution are NOT
trying to "debunk God." They leave that kind of nonsense to you
creationists, who do a marvellous job for ol' Nick by making it seem as
if you must be a total ignoramus to be a believer. I think the old
pastor who wrote this many years ago meant you people when he wrote it:

"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth,
the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion
and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions,
about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of
the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs,
stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being
certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and
dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably
giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these
topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing
situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and
laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant
individual is derided, but that people outside the household of
faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great
loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our
Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find
a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and
hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are
they going to believe those books in matters concerning the
resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom
of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on
facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the
light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy
Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren
when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and
are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our
sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and
obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy
Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which
they think support their position, although they understand neither
what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.
[1 Timothy 1.7]"

Want to try to guess who wrote it and when?

Athiests who study evolution don't believe in god (they can't hate
what they don't acknowledge) and theists (Jews, Christians, etc.) who
study evolution obviously don't hate god.

What else is new, besides atheist's not believing in God?

Of course atheists don't believe in God. But what you are not saying
here is that the most important work in evolutionary genetics in the 20th
century was done by a couple of believers (one of whom survives and still
teaches).

Notice the word 'believe', what does it tell you?
It tell's me that Christian's and Atheist's have one thing in common,
'A BELIEF'!
Nothing more, nothing less.
Atheist's base their belief in their OWN ability to make sense of our
'being';
therefore the only source they have to fall back on is science.
Science is, believe
it or not, I don't discredit it - just men's way of making sense of
the unknown.
With other words atheist's refuse to acknowledge that this unknown
territory - in it's enterity - has everything to do with a deity.

This argument has never been about what God COULD do, but about what
actually happened. And the scientific side of it is based, as is all
scientific theory, on the physical evidence.

Yeah, physical evidence, I know......and everything else you can't explain,
you call it magic. Nice logic...

Evolution is based on a study of the evidence at hand. We can observe
evolution in action and we have compelling evidence that large scale
evolution (speciation) has taken place throughout all of life's
history on earth. This is the foundation for the science of
evolution, not a religious belief.

Keep on trying...

Don't worry, people will keep on doing science, even if you get it banned
in your country. The penalty will simply be that you have to buy the
products of it from somebody else. Just don't come caterwauling to the
rest of us about how unfair it is that your uneducated kids and your
pseudoscientists can't get the prestige jobs and don't hold the big-money
patents, etc. And don't you DARE call the result of your own wilful
stupidity "persecution." Some of you already owe people like St.
Perpetua a very sincere apology for misusing the word.

Why would I worry about science, I am not against it.
My argument is about the scientific community who either
deny a God, or put Him for the time being in a box, in case
they need Him. This is dishonest, because according to your own
logic for something to be true, it must be proven. Nobody can
prove the non-existance of God, so therefore they are just
in denial.

--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667

Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.

"David Jensen" <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
news:0lselvgo97fvak32ua5mpep297rcksrktc@4ax.com...

In alt.talk.creationism, "galia" <galia@netrover.com> wrote in
<liK5b.66138$PD3.4684499@nnrp1.uunet.ca>:

"_AnonCoward" <abc@xyz.com> wrote in message

...

Ralf:
The "foundation for evolution" has nothing to do with a hatred of God
(deep, shallow or otherwise). That's just non-sense and illogical.

The foundation of evolution is nothing else but an attempt to find
another explanation for our existence beside a 'Creator God'!
Anything else is dishonest and illogical!

So you claim.

My claim makes sense; your's doesn't!


Could you please flesh this out a pit.
Has nothing to do with flesh; flesh is limited and corrupt; remember
you are going to die; you turn back to dust!
My Creator God didn't lie about that!

Which Creator God

are you talking about,

Not the one who puts those doubts into your question!

which unfounded and evidence-free creation myth

is being avoided? Do you accept all Creator Gods? Do you accept all
evidence-free creation myths yourself?

You call it myth, but by your own logic you are unable to provide the
physical evidence for YOUR claim! Don't tell me we can't prove a
negative, but tell me, since you are so doubtful to accept the 'God of
the Bible' (Creator God) you SHOULD be able to prove His
non-existence. Since you can't do that, your claim is false.