| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Rowland Croucher" |
| Date: |
15 Aug 2004 02:02:27 AM |
| Object: |
Fundamentalism and the Bible |
Here's an interesting challenge to the fundamentalist 'flat' method of
biblical interpretation. (Some theologians call this better hermeneutic
'progressive revelation'):
'The process of interpretation which precludes final settlement on almost
all questions is evident in the Bible itself. A stunning case in point is
the Mosaic teaching in Deuteronomy 23:1-8 that bans from the community all
those with distorted sexuality and all those who are foreigners. In Isaiah
56:3-8 this Mosaic teaching is overturned in the Bible itself, offering what
Herbert Donner terms an intentional 'abrogation' of Mosaic law through new
teaching. The old, no doubt circumstance-driven exclusion is answered by a
circumstance-driven inclusiveness.
'In Deuteronomy 24:1, moreover, Moses teaches that marriages broken in
infidelity cannot be restored, even if both parties want to get back
together. But in Jeremiah 3, in a shocking reversal given in a pathos-filled
poem, God's own voice indicates a readiness to violate that Torah teaching
for the sake of restored marriage to Israel. The old teaching is seen to be
problematic even for God. The latter text shows God prepared to move beyond
the old prohibition of Torah in order that the inherent evangelical claims
of God's graciousness may be fully available even to a recalcitrant Israel.'
Walter Brueggemann, Christian Century (Jan. 3-10 2001, p.16)
--
Shalom!
Rowland Croucher
http://www.pastornet.net.au/jmm/
http://articlesandreviews.blogspot.com/
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| User: "::: vera :::" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
15 Aug 2004 02:37:24 AM |
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"Rowland Croucher" <rccroucher@removethispleaseoptusnet.com.au> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:411f0a7f$0$18669$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Here's an interesting challenge to the fundamentalist 'flat' method of
biblical interpretation. (Some theologians call this better hermeneutic
'progressive revelation'):
You call it "challange" - I call it attack.
Why do you attack Christians all the time? Why do you not tach the Gospel
instead?
'The process of interpretation which precludes final settlement on almost
all questions is evident in the Bible itself. A stunning case in point is
the Mosaic teaching in Deuteronomy 23:1-8 that bans from the community all
those with distorted sexuality and all those who are foreigners. In Isaiah
56:3-8 this Mosaic teaching is overturned in the Bible itself, offering
what
Herbert Donner terms an intentional 'abrogation' of Mosaic law through new
teaching. The old, no doubt circumstance-driven exclusion is answered by a
circumstance-driven inclusiveness.
'In Deuteronomy 24:1, moreover, Moses teaches that marriages broken in
infidelity cannot be restored, even if both parties want to get back
together.
That is true, and I know this from own experience. If trust was broken like
that, it will never be the same again.
But in Jeremiah 3, in a shocking reversal given in a pathos-filled
poem, God's own voice indicates a readiness to violate that Torah teaching
for the sake of restored marriage to Israel. The old teaching is seen to
be
problematic even for God. The latter text shows God prepared to move
beyond
the old prohibition of Torah in order that the inherent evangelical claims
of God's graciousness may be fully available even to a recalcitrant
Israel.'
Walter Brueggemann, Christian Century (Jan. 3-10 2001, p.16)
Sin is still sin, and will ever be. No, God did not work to abolish His
perfect law. He only wanted to make us more sensitive for it and what it
means to do God's will.
::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::
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| User: "Mark Tindall" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
18 Aug 2004 01:56:19 AM |
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"::: vera :::" wrote:
Here's an interesting challenge to the fundamentalist 'flat' method >>of
biblical interpretation. (Some theologians call this better >>hermeneutic
'progressive revelation'):
You call it "challange" - I call it attack.
Silly little German fundamentalist!
Why do you not tach the Gospel instead?
Just like Vera's "shoo, Satan, shoo!"
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
Where Jesus is Bored
May St Avertin - the patron saint of lunatics - look over Vera, Abby, Bob &
Pedro.
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| User: "Divine" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
15 Aug 2004 03:04:35 AM |
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On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 09:37:24 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
"Rowland Croucher" <rccroucher@removethispleaseoptusnet.com.au> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:411f0a7f$0$18669$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Here's an interesting challenge to the fundamentalist 'flat' method of
biblical interpretation. (Some theologians call this better hermeneutic
'progressive revelation'):
You call it "challange" - I call it attack.
Good - then "attack" it is then.
But then again, LOL... who cares *what* you think on this? After all, you
are only a Fundamentalist and Fundamentalists are not known for the
lucidity of their thinking - or their scholarship!
Divine
--
The above reply is in response to a person who can be only described as a
knuckle-dragger.
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| User: "Mark Tindall" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
18 Aug 2004 02:00:53 AM |
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"Divine" wrote:
But then again, LOL... who cares *what* you think on this?
Vera "think"?????
Vera only shoos people away.
After all, you are only a Fundamentalist and Fundamentalists are not
known for the lucidity of their thinking - or their scholarship!
Fundamentalists are Trew Kristyuns - the born again who make us bored again.
The above reply is in response to a person who can be only >described as a
knuckle-dragger.
That's Vera!
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
19 Aug 2004 04:34:13 AM |
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"Mark Tindall" <m_b_tindall@NOSPAMtpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:4122fea9@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"Divine" wrote:
But then again, LOL... who cares *what* you think on this?
Vera "think"?????
Vera only shoos people away.
After all, you are only a Fundamentalist and Fundamentalists are not
known for the lucidity of their thinking - or their scholarship!
Fundamentalists are Trew Kristyuns - the born again who make us bored
again.
The above reply is in response to a person who can be only >described as
a
knuckle-dragger.
That's Vera!
Are you judging posters in our pristine Christian NGs? Only the
Satan-possessed judge people, -themselves and others. We Christians are only
to judge the quality of actions, never people nor ourselves, because
judgment is of the Lord ONLY.
I bet you are just jealous of Vera, because she lives in the love of the
Lord, whereas you appear to live in the hate of Him.
Pastor Frank
JUDGMENT
Jesus in Mt:18:7: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must
needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence
cometh!
Jesus in Mt:7:2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mt:23:12: And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that
shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Rv:13:10: He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he
that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the
patience and the faith of the saints.
Jesus in Mt12:36-37: But I say unto you, That every idle word that men
shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by
thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Jesus in Jn:8:15: Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Jesus in Lk:6:37: Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not,
and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
1Cor:4:3: But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged
by you, or by any man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Cor:4:4: For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified:
but He that judgeth me is my Father which is in Heaven.
Ephesians 2:8-9: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not
of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should
boast.
Jms:2:24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only.
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| User: "bill ramsay" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
19 Aug 2004 05:56:15 AM |
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On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 05:34:13 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> wrote:
"Mark Tindall" <m_b_tindall@NOSPAMtpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:4122fea9@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"Divine" wrote:
But then again, LOL... who cares *what* you think on this?
Vera "think"?????
Vera only shoos people away.
After all, you are only a Fundamentalist and Fundamentalists are not
known for the lucidity of their thinking - or their scholarship!
Fundamentalists are Trew Kristyuns - the born again who make us bored
again.
The above reply is in response to a person who can be only >described as
a
knuckle-dragger.
That's Vera!
Are you judging posters in our pristine Christian NGs? Only the
Satan-possessed judge people, -themselves and others. We Christians are only
to judge the quality of actions, never people nor ourselves, because
judgment is of the Lord ONLY.
I bet you are just jealous of Vera, because she lives in the love of the
Lord, whereas you appear to live in the hate of Him.
Pastor Frank
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
You say
' Only the
Satan-possessed judge people, -themselves and others.'
well hello? what has vera been doing of late, btw, walked past a
mirror recently?
"We Christians are only
to judge the quality of actions, never people nor ourselves, because
judgment is of the Lord ONLY."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
regarding this bit
"> I bet you are just jealous of Vera, because she lives in the
love of the
Lord, whereas you appear to live in the hate of Him.
"
Au contraire mon dieu, I feel sorry for Vera, such energy would be
much better directed towards something creative, constructive even.
kind regards
bill
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| User: "::: vera :::" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
19 Aug 2004 09:09:57 AM |
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In news:2l19i0his4asible4btnr57nbkqmsttih6@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 05:34:13 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> wrote:
"Mark Tindall" <m_b_tindall@NOSPAMtpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:4122fea9@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"Divine" wrote:
But then again, LOL... who cares *what* you think on this?
Vera "think"?????
Vera only shoos people away.
After all, you are only a Fundamentalist and Fundamentalists are
not known for the lucidity of their thinking - or their
scholarship!
Fundamentalists are Trew Kristyuns - the born again who make us
bored again.
The above reply is in response to a person who can be only
described as
a
knuckle-dragger.
That's Vera!
Are you judging posters in our pristine Christian NGs? Only the
Satan-possessed judge people, -themselves and others. We Christians
are only to judge the quality of actions, never people nor
ourselves, because judgment is of the Lord ONLY.
I bet you are just jealous of Vera, because she lives in the love
of the Lord, whereas you appear to live in the hate of Him.
Pastor Frank
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
YES! And Christianity may not be a religion, but it belongs there into that
wide field. :-)
You say
' Only the
Satan-possessed judge people, -themselves and others.'
well hello? what has vera been doing of late, btw, walked past a
mirror recently?
"We Christians are only
to judge the quality of actions, never people nor ourselves, because
judgment is of the Lord ONLY."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
regarding this bit
"> I bet you are just jealous of Vera, because she lives in the
love of the
Lord, whereas you appear to live in the hate of Him.
"
Au contraire mon dieu, I feel sorry for Vera, such energy would be
much better directed towards something creative, constructive even.
kind regards
bill
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| User: "Blobert" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
19 Aug 2004 09:25:29 AM |
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"::: vera :::" <verasix@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in message
news:2ojqlqFbde6dU1@uni-berlin.de...
In news:2l19i0his4asible4btnr57nbkqmsttih6@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 05:34:13 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> wrote:
"Mark Tindall" <m_b_tindall@NOSPAMtpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:4122fea9@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"Divine" wrote:
But then again, LOL... who cares *what* you think on this?
Vera "think"?????
Vera only shoos people away.
After all, you are only a Fundamentalist and Fundamentalists are
not known for the lucidity of their thinking - or their
scholarship!
Fundamentalists are Trew Kristyuns - the born again who make us
bored again.
The above reply is in response to a person who can be only
described as
a
knuckle-dragger.
That's Vera!
Are you judging posters in our pristine Christian NGs? Only the
Satan-possessed judge people, -themselves and others. We Christians
are only to judge the quality of actions, never people nor
ourselves, because judgment is of the Lord ONLY.
I bet you are just jealous of Vera, because she lives in the love
of the Lord, whereas you appear to live in the hate of Him.
Pastor Frank
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
Well DUH!!! RENAME IT!! NZ.SOC.EVERY-RELIGION-BUT-CHRISTIAN
ya dang twit......
YES! And Christianity may not be a religion, but it belongs there into
that
wide field. :-)
You say
' Only the
Satan-possessed judge people, -themselves and others.'
well hello? what has vera been doing of late, btw, walked past a
mirror recently?
"We Christians are only
to judge the quality of actions, never people nor ourselves, because
judgment is of the Lord ONLY."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
regarding this bit
"> I bet you are just jealous of Vera, because she lives in the
love of the
Lord, whereas you appear to live in the hate of Him.
"
Au contraire mon dieu, I feel sorry for Vera, such energy would be
much better directed towards something creative, constructive even.
kind regards
bill
.
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| User: "bill ramsay" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
19 Aug 2004 02:09:19 PM |
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e Christians
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
Well DUH!!! RENAME IT!! NZ.SOC.EVERY-RELIGION-BUT-CHRISTIAN
ya dang twit......
unfortunately that is not within my power, maybe you could make an
appeal to a higher body?
anyway, I am against all religions, not just your particular brand.
kind rgds
bill
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
20 Aug 2004 06:56:18 AM |
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"bill ramsay" <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:iku9i01308tbn9mpv4i34la5re4pm1f80b@4ax.com...
e Christians
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
Well DUH!!! RENAME IT!! NZ.SOC.EVERY-RELIGION-BUT-CHRISTIAN
ya dang twit......
unfortunately that is not within my power, maybe you could make an
appeal to a higher body?
anyway, I am against all religions, not just your particular brand.
kind rgds
You sound like a contrarian, an anti-authoritarian anarchist? Why don't
you start your own News Group? I see it now: news:alt.contrarianism LOL
Pastor Frank
2Tm:3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is
profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction
in righteousness:
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| User: "bill ramsay" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
20 Aug 2004 07:18:50 PM |
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On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:56:18 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> wrote:
"bill ramsay" <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:iku9i01308tbn9mpv4i34la5re4pm1f80b@4ax.com...
e Christians
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
Well DUH!!! RENAME IT!! NZ.SOC.EVERY-RELIGION-BUT-CHRISTIAN
ya dang twit......
unfortunately that is not within my power, maybe you could make an
appeal to a higher body?
anyway, I am against all religions, not just your particular brand.
kind rgds
You sound like a contrarian, an anti-authoritarian anarchist? Why don't
you start your own News Group? I see it now: news:alt.contrarianism LOL
Pastor Frank
2Tm:3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is
profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction
in righteousness:
Frank.
I am against those who stand on platforms with simple solutions to
complex problems.
I am also against those who base their platform on a book that is 2000
years old.
Just as i am against murderers in court who claim that god told them
to kill.
It's simple really, let people live, and as long as they rub along
in peaceful co-existance with others then that is ok.
Fundamentalists don't seem to like that.
kind regards
bill
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
21 Aug 2004 06:37:58 PM |
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"bill ramsay" <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:t35di0143g28opa7r9kdh8unrkf5osppk8@4ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:56:18 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> wrote:
"bill ramsay" <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:iku9i01308tbn9mpv4i34la5re4pm1f80b@4ax.com...
e Christians
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
Well DUH!!! RENAME IT!! NZ.SOC.EVERY-RELIGION-BUT-CHRISTIAN
ya dang twit......
unfortunately that is not within my power, maybe you could make an
appeal to a higher body?
anyway, I am against all religions, not just your particular brand.
kind rgds
You sound like a contrarian, an anti-authoritarian anarchist? Why
don't
you start your own News Group? I see it now: news:alt.contrarianism LOL
Pastor Frank
2Tm:3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is
profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction
in righteousness:
I am against those who stand on platforms with simple solutions to
complex problems.
Who says you are not but fundies are? You?
I am also against those who base their platform on a book that is 2000
years old.
What has the age of the book to do with its validity? Our whole culture
is based on much older Greek philosophical text.
Just as i am against murderers in court who claim that god told them
to kill.
You need to take that up with Judaists, in NGs devoted to Judaism, NOT
Christianity.
But it's obvious you are an avowed atheist, for you list only what your
are "against" without a word about what your are FOR. LOL We Christians are
to advocate what we support, recommend, adore, worship, love, care for etc.
etc. etc. and NEVER bother to waste much time telling other what we are
against.
It's simple really, let people live, and as long as they rub along
in peaceful co-existance with others then that is ok.
That is the aim of religion, getting people to restrain themselves from
doing what comes natural and be empathic and humane instead. This allows for
civilizations to become great and have high population densities.
Fundamentalists don't seem to like that.
kind regards
Quite the contrary. That is what Christ is all about, i.e. caring for
others and treating them as we want to be treated and cared about. That IS
what you are proposing, isn't it? See below
Pastor Frank
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
.
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| User: "bill ramsay" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
21 Aug 2004 10:38:38 PM |
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I am against those who stand on platforms with simple solutions to
complex problems.
Who says you are not but fundies are? You?
I have no simple solutions to complex problems, that's the point.
I am also against those who base their platform on a book that is 2000
years old.
What has the age of the book to do with its validity? Our whole culture
is based on much older Greek philosophical text.
ok, so it is based on an even older book, that makes it ok then does
it?
Just as i am against murderers in court who claim that god told them
to kill.
You need to take that up with Judaists, in NGs devoted to Judaism, NOT
Christianity.
sorry? what on earth are you talking about? only jews kill is that
what you are saying.
But it's obvious you are an avowed atheist, for you list only what your
are "against" without a word about what your are FOR. LOL We Christians are
to advocate what we support, recommend, adore, worship, love, care for etc.
etc. etc. and NEVER bother to waste much time telling other what we are
against.
Au contraire Frank. I am for a lot of things, but one the things
that I am definately against., is bible thumping fundies. any way
see below.
It's simple really, let people live, and as long as they rub along
in peaceful co-existance with others then that is ok.
That is the aim of religion, getting people to restrain themselves from
doing what comes natural and be empathic and humane instead. This allows for
civilizations to become great and have high population densities.
You assume too much when this comes to religion, but i take your
point.
Fundamentalists don't seem to like that.
kind regards
Quite the contrary. That is what Christ is all about, i.e. caring for
others and treating them as we want to be treated and cared about. That IS
what you are proposing, isn't it? See below
Really, why all the homophobia then?
Pastor Frank
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
Off to a bad start
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
very good.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
give the first one a miss and you may be onto something
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
excellent. don't need JC to tell me that tho, i tend to do that
anyway.
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
22 Aug 2004 04:12:00 AM |
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"bill ramsay" <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:c15gi01n3d3lmiqovumr0lfrg4cfrp1sv9@4ax.com...
Really, why all the homophobia then?
You are not posting to any homosexual NGs but to Christian ones, where
sex is only allowed between a man and his lawful wife, all other sex being
forbidden. It should be obvious to you, that without massive use of
antibiotics, other sexual practices besides the monogamous one would surely
cause human extinction from STD infections.
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
Off to a bad start
Why that? Why should you not love the Christian God, the repository of
all ideals and principles? Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16)
Surely you believe in love, even though you appear to be a sexual deviant.
do to you, do ye even so to them...."
excellent. don't need JC to tell me that tho, i tend to do that
anyway.
But others don't, stupid!!! Or would you rather keep silent till they
come after you and "do unto you....." what you hoped nobody would ever do to
another human being?
Pastor Frank
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
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| User: "bill ramsay" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
23 Aug 2004 03:40:02 AM |
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On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 05:12:00 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@Christfirst.com> wrote:
"bill ramsay" <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:c15gi01n3d3lmiqovumr0lfrg4cfrp1sv9@4ax.com...
Really, why all the homophobia then?
You are not posting to any homosexual NGs but to Christian ones, where
sex is only allowed between a man and his lawful wife, all other sex being
forbidden. It should be obvious to you, that without massive use of
antibiotics, other sexual practices besides the monogamous one would surely
cause human extinction from STD infections.
You wear your paranoia well, but hide it badly. your last statement
is patently false, most of the world is not christian,. and it seems
to be here.
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
Off to a bad start
Why that? Why should you not love the Christian God, the repository of
all ideals and principles? Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16)
Surely you believe in love, even though you appear to be a sexual deviant.
Because I am not a christian, and no matter how much you rant, rave,
shout, scream, or curse those who disagree with you will make that
any different. I find it hard to comprehend that you are a pastor,
what ever that is, is it some self appointed god-botherer?
do to you, do ye even so to them...."
excellent. don't need JC to tell me that tho, i tend to do that
anyway.
But others don't, stupid!!! Or would you rather keep silent till they
come after you and "do unto you....." what you hoped nobody would ever do to
another human being?
Thing is Frank, I don't need a bumptious religious know all like you
to tell me how to behave. I don't need the threat of divine
displeasure blown with sputem from lips such as yours to know what is
right and wrong.
Pastor Frank
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
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| User: "Divine" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
22 Aug 2004 05:50:26 AM |
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On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 05:12:00 -0400, Pastor Frank wrote:
You are not posting to any homosexual NGs but to Christian ones, where
sex is only allowed between a man and his lawful wife, all other sex being
forbidden.
<snigger>
I didn't know that sex between men and their "lawful wives" was possible
in a newsgroup.
Please explaim how a man and his "lawful wife" could possibly have sex in
a newsgroup!
Divine
--
/'_/)
,/_ /
/ /
/'_'/' '/'__'7,
/'/ / / /" /_\
('( ' Yo,' _~/' ')
\ Fool ! ' /
'\' _.7'
\ (
\ \
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| User: "bill ramsay" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
19 Aug 2004 02:07:49 PM |
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Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
YES! And Christianity may not be a religion, but it belongs there into that
wide field. :-)
That's interesting, if christianity is not a religion, then you
should not be talking about it here, off with you!!!
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| User: "::: vera :::" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
19 Aug 2004 05:11:44 PM |
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In news:9iu9i0512fsuehat4k851cgshuafmhpb0d@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
YES! And Christianity may not be a religion, but it belongs there
into that wide field. :-)
That's interesting, if christianity is not a religion, then you
should not be talking about it here, off with you!!!
Honey baby, it certainly IS a religion for you.
::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::
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| User: "Blobert" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
19 Aug 2004 05:37:18 PM |
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"::: vera :::" <verasix@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in message
news:2okmt2Fbuf00U1@uni-berlin.de...
In news:9iu9i0512fsuehat4k851cgshuafmhpb0d@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
If it is NOT a Christian ng then WHAT kind of religion is it for??????
Wide World of Wombat Worship?
YES! And Christianity may not be a religion, but it belongs there
into that wide field. :-)
That's interesting, if christianity is not a religion, then you
should not be talking about it here, off with you!!!
Honey baby, it certainly IS a religion for you.
Yes, it's a religion. One that he simply cannot stand because he is not
in control of it..... He is obviously the Supreme Being.
QUICK!!!! Everybody get your Bible, scratch out GOD and write in
BILL......
Stupid bloody kiwi.....
::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::
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| User: "::: vera :::" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
20 Aug 2004 03:02:16 PM |
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In news:yY9Vc.28081$nx2.11986@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net,
Blobert <OneNation@Under.Blob> wrote:
"::: vera :::" <verasix@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in message
news:2okmt2Fbuf00U1@uni-berlin.de...
In news:9iu9i0512fsuehat4k851cgshuafmhpb0d@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
If it is NOT a Christian ng then WHAT kind of religion is it
for?????? Wide World of Wombat Worship?
YES! And Christianity may not be a religion, but it belongs there
into that wide field. :-)
That's interesting, if christianity is not a religion, then you
should not be talking about it here, off with you!!!
Honey baby, it certainly IS a religion for you.
Yes, it's a religion. One that he simply cannot stand because he
is not in control of it..... He is obviously the Supreme Being.
QUICK!!!! Everybody get your Bible, scratch out GOD and write in
BILL......
Stupid bloody kiwi.....
You call Master Bill a stupid bloody kiwi? How can you? How can you? ;-)
Master Bill tells us all about what a religion is, and what you and I
believe, too.
But Bob, maybe he is just only prejudiced. I have got the feeling. I was the
same like him before I became a Christian. I regarded Baprist churches in my
town as cults and would never have gone there of not God had found me
Himself.
vera :::
--
http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::
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| User: "bill ramsay" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
20 Aug 2004 12:14:46 AM |
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On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:37:18 GMT, "Blobert" <OneNation@Under.Blob>
wrote:
"::: vera :::" <verasix@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in message
news:2okmt2Fbuf00U1@uni-berlin.de...
In news:9iu9i0512fsuehat4k851cgshuafmhpb0d@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
If it is NOT a Christian ng then WHAT kind of religion is it for??????
Wide World of Wombat Worship?
you seem to be a bit 'one eyed' as they say in these parts. so get
you thinking hat on, what other religions could also go to
nz.soc.relision, how about Hinduism, Taoism, Islamism, for
starters
the point that I am making, and this seems to be lost on you, is
that people come in NSR claiming that it is a christian group [just
like you have done] when in fact it is not.
YES! And Christianity may not be a religion, but it belongs there
into that wide field. :-)
That's interesting, if christianity is not a religion, then you
should not be talking about it here, off with you!!!
Honey baby, it certainly IS a religion for you.
Yes, it's a religion. One that he simply cannot stand because he is not
in control of it..... He is obviously the Supreme Being.
QUICK!!!! Everybody get your Bible, scratch out GOD and write in
BILL......
Stupid bloody kiwi.....
again, dim bulb, the above was in response to the quote from Vera,
like her, irony seems to be lost on you.
I have no need to be in control of anything, you seem to be
projecting your desires here,
You can keep your book of fairy stories, I have no need for this
foolishness that you propose.
ANd thanks for calling me a Kiwi in my adopted country, that is a
great honour.
If there is anyone stupid around here you will them looking in your
mirror.
kind regards
bill
::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::
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| User: "::: vera :::" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
20 Aug 2004 03:06:57 PM |
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In news:ls1bi01lorvohj1g85442r1ste29ai7tpj@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:37:18 GMT, "Blobert" <OneNation@Under.Blob>
wrote:
"::: vera :::" <verasix@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in message
news:2okmt2Fbuf00U1@uni-berlin.de...
In news:9iu9i0512fsuehat4k851cgshuafmhpb0d@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
If it is NOT a Christian ng then WHAT kind of religion is it
for?????? Wide World of Wombat Worship?
you seem to be a bit 'one eyed' as they say in these parts. so get
you thinking hat on, what other religions could also go to
nz.soc.relision, how about Hinduism, Taoism, Islamism, for
starters
Hey, Bill, we cannot do all, can we? Should I do their job, too?
the point that I am making, and this seems to be lost on you, is
that people come in NSR claiming that it is a christian group [just
like you have done] when in fact it is not.
We are Christians in a group that deals with religion. What the heck is your
problem?
Please think that over: You want to have a group that deals with religion,
but when people come and want to show you theirs, you claim it is not for
them, and you, an atheist, want to decide about all of it? LOL
<snipped>
God's Bless,
::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::
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| User: "Blobert" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
20 Aug 2004 07:14:55 PM |
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"::: vera :::" <verasix@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in message
news:2ona5mFcn64eU10@uni-berlin.de...
In news:ls1bi01lorvohj1g85442r1ste29ai7tpj@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:37:18 GMT, "Blobert" <OneNation@Under.Blob>
wrote:
"::: vera :::" <verasix@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in message
news:2okmt2Fbuf00U1@uni-berlin.de...
In news:9iu9i0512fsuehat4k851cgshuafmhpb0d@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
If it is NOT a Christian ng then WHAT kind of religion is it
for?????? Wide World of Wombat Worship?
you seem to be a bit 'one eyed' as they say in these parts. so get
you thinking hat on, what other religions could also go to
nz.soc.relision, how about Hinduism, Taoism, Islamism, for
starters
Well, I dunno what you have on nz.soc.relision, I thought we were
talking about nz.soc.religion. I don't even know what a relision is. Is it
anything like a Norfolk Island Pine? Particular Maori tattoo pattern?
Extinct flightless bird?
Back on topic: nowhere have any of us seen anything to the effect that
the CHRISTIAN religion is taboo on your "religion" ng. But that is fine;
Christianity is not wanted anywhere sinners abound. We are used to being
rejected.
OBTW, do you welcome Wombat Worship?; we do it on Tuesdays.
Blobert<><
PS- One-eyed; ha ha. ;-)
.
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| User: "bill ramsay" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
20 Aug 2004 07:22:06 PM |
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On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 22:06:57 +0200, "::: vera :::"
<verasix@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote:
In news:ls1bi01lorvohj1g85442r1ste29ai7tpj@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:37:18 GMT, "Blobert" <OneNation@Under.Blob>
wrote:
"::: vera :::" <verasix@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in message
news:2okmt2Fbuf00U1@uni-berlin.de...
In news:9iu9i0512fsuehat4k851cgshuafmhpb0d@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a christian
newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
If it is NOT a Christian ng then WHAT kind of religion is it
for?????? Wide World of Wombat Worship?
you seem to be a bit 'one eyed' as they say in these parts. so get
you thinking hat on, what other religions could also go to
nz.soc.relision, how about Hinduism, Taoism, Islamism, for
starters
Hey, Bill, we cannot do all, can we? Should I do their job, too?
sorry I don't understand your point/
the point that I am making, and this seems to be lost on you, is
that people come in NSR claiming that it is a christian group [just
like you have done] when in fact it is not.
We are Christians in a group that deals with religion. What the heck is your
problem?
none at all, but the claim that this is exclusively a christian group
is nonsense, that is the point that I am trying to make. Are you are
your ilk a bit dim in this regards
Please think that over: You want to have a group that deals with religion,
but when people come and want to show you theirs, you claim it is not for
them, and you, an atheist, want to decide about all of it? LOL
Again, you don't read what is written. I am extremely pleased that
you want to air your form of insanity here. I like tilting at your
windmill. As I said before, this is not an exclusively christian
newsgroup, as is claimed by yourself and others, I am merely pointing
this out to you.
I make no claim towards any decision, i just point out the fallacy in
some of your positions. that's all.
kind regards
bill
<snipped>
God's Bless,
::: vera :::
.
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| User: "::: vera :::" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
20 Aug 2004 08:13:24 PM |
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In news:v75di0tmd36hctsmqhgdf33o3ev335cp5q@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 22:06:57 +0200, "::: vera :::"
<verasix@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote:
In news:ls1bi01lorvohj1g85442r1ste29ai7tpj@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:37:18 GMT, "Blobert" <OneNation@Under.Blob>
wrote:
"::: vera :::" <verasix@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in message
news:2okmt2Fbuf00U1@uni-berlin.de...
In news:9iu9i0512fsuehat4k851cgshuafmhpb0d@4ax.com,
bill ramsay <bill.ramsay@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Frankie babes, this, for the umpteenth time, is not a
christian newsgroup. this is nz.soc.religion.
If it is NOT a Christian ng then WHAT kind of religion is it
for?????? Wide World of Wombat Worship?
you seem to be a bit 'one eyed' as they say in these parts. so get
you thinking hat on, what other religions could also go to
nz.soc.relision, how about Hinduism, Taoism, Islamism, for
starters
Hey, Bill, we cannot do all, can we? Should I do their job, too?
sorry I don't understand your point/
Maybe you did not get my irony...
I am a Christian - so should I teach you Taoism? Just because it is a
"religion"?
the point that I am making, and this seems to be lost on you, is
that people come in NSR claiming that it is a christian group [just
like you have done] when in fact it is not.
We are Christians in a group that deals with religion. What the heck
is your problem?
none at all, but the claim that this is exclusively a christian group
is nonsense, that is the point that I am trying to make. Are you are
your ilk a bit dim in this regards
Ama I am like this?
You should not expect me to write about Taoism - I am a Christian. :-)
Now if you have not made up your mind what to believe you can write about
the other religions. I will also help you and tell you why and where they
are wrong if you want that. But I will stick to Christianity because I am a
Christian. :-)
Please think that over: You want to have a group that deals with
religion, but when people come and want to show you theirs, you
claim it is not for them, and you, an atheist, want to decide about
all of it? LOL
Again, you don't read what is written. I am extremely pleased that
you want to air your form of insanity here. I like tilting at your
windmill. As I said before, this is not an exclusively christian
newsgroup, as is claimed by yourself and others, I am merely pointing
this out to you.
I make no claim towards any decision, i just point out the fallacy in
some of your positions. that's all.
Okay. :-) Accepted. You may go on talking about other subjects but Christian
subjects. :-)
kind regards
bill
Bussi
::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::
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| User: "Divine" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
20 Aug 2004 08:30:44 PM |
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On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 03:13:24 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
You should not expect me to write about Taoism - I am a Christian. :-)
Surely one can expect you to have looked around and at least enquired
about other religions. How else could you possibly know that only you are
right and they are wrong?
Divine
--
"What some people have against Open Source Software is what Fundamentalist
Christians or Moslems have against Knowledge."
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
21 Aug 2004 07:09:01 PM |
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"Divine" <nospam@nospam.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.08.21.01.30.43.701587@TRACKER...
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 03:13:24 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
You should not expect me to write about Taoism - I am a Christian. :-)
Surely one can expect you to have looked around and at least enquired
about other religions. How else could you possibly know that only you are
right and they are wrong?
"They" are not wrong. It is YOU who is way off. We like Taoism and most
other religion, but we Christians believe Christ is the BEST religion among
many good ones. We normally discuss here the fine points of the differences,
unless we get stomping atheist Yahoos invading our Christian News Group to
trash, flame and drop their stinky turds all over.
"at least inquire about other religions" indeed!!!!! Many of us here
have read nearly everything in the world's supermarket of ideas / ideals
before making a choice for Christ.
Pastor Frank
SATAN'S MINIONS
Jesus in John 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of
your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode
not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie,
he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Mt:6:21: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Mt:12:34: O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good
things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mt:12:35: A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth
forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth
evil things.
2Pt:3:3: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days
scoffers, walking after their own lusts.
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| User: "Divine" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
22 Aug 2004 12:28:18 AM |
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On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 20:09:01 -0400, Pastor Frank wrote:
Surely one can expect you to have looked around and at least enquired
about other religions. How else could you possibly know that only you are
right and they are wrong?
"They" are not wrong.
Facinating.
If you think that they be NOT WRONG, then does that mean that you
therefore think that they be RIGHT?
Not all persons necessarily want the "best" solution to something. Often
people only want a solution which provides, say, 90% of the answer.
Usually the "best" of something is a "deluxe" version. Most persons are
satisfied with a "regular" or "basic" version.
So... Just because you think your Fundamentalism is "best" doesn't mean
most persons will want it - or would even consider it.
Personally, I considered Fundamentalism. I found it wanting. I very much
prefer a true and simple faith in Christ.
Divine
--
"Gay, lesbian and bisexual people are often portrayed as a threat to all
that is good and decent. When we seek the SAME rights as others, these
people denounce us as seeking special rights."
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| User: "Terrell D Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
22 Aug 2004 01:09:58 AM |
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On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:28:18 +1200, Divine <nospam@nospam.invalid.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 20:09:01 -0400, Pastor Frank wrote:
Surely one can expect you to have looked around and at least enquired
about other religions. How else could you possibly know that only you are
right and they are wrong?
"They" are not wrong.
Facinating.
If you think that they be NOT WRONG, then does that mean that you
therefore think that they be RIGHT?
Not all persons necessarily want the "best" solution to something. Often
people only want a solution which provides, say, 90% of the answer.
Usually the "best" of something is a "deluxe" version. Most persons are
satisfied with a "regular" or "basic" version.
So... Just because you think your Fundamentalism is "best" doesn't mean
most persons will want it - or would even consider it.
Personally, I considered Fundamentalism. I found it wanting. I very much
prefer a true and simple faith in Christ.
Divine
Sometimes, there is a level at which two seeming opposites can both be
right. But FUndamentalism is always an apostasy.
©¿©
Terrell
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: Fundamentalism and the Bible |
22 Aug 2004 04:34:59 AM |
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"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:34egi0ppmt386fjdpblovht137nkrv6dlo@4ax.com...
Sometimes, there is a level at which two seeming opposites can both be
right. But FUndamentalism is always an apostasy.
Why is Fundamentalism an "apostacy"? Is it because Fundamentalists are
opposed to homosexual activity, believing in the below Bible verses, whereas
other denominations ignore them?
Pastor Frank
Rom 1:24: Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the
lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served
the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their
women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman,
burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is
unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which
was meet.
28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God
gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not
convenient;
29: Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness,
covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit,
malignity; whisperers,
30: Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of
evil things, disobedient to parents,
31: Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection,
implacable, unmerciful:
32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things
are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do
them.
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both
of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death;
their blood shall be upon them.
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