On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 06:39:30 -0700, Zenflow
<zenflow@yahoo.com> spoke thusly:

Gap Theory and/or The Ruin-and-Reconstruction Theory of Genesis 1

The problem with it is that the Bible does not
state a gap and every time the Hebrew word
"yom" is used in Scripture, with a numeric
adjective present (first, second, etc.), it always
means a literal day.

Furthermore, the Sun being created after
the Earth, does not match up with cloud
cover breaking.

Furthermore, we see plants being created
on one day and then on another day,
the insects that would be needed to keep
them alive, as well as the Sun that would
have been needed to keep them alive.

Placing a gap between these days and/or
making them hundreds of millions of years,
does not solve these problems.

Gap Theory
"The gap theory teaches that God created the world perhaps billions of
years ago, and it was perfect and beautiful in every way. This is the
creation described in Genesis 1:1. This creation was populated with
plants and animals and perhaps even with a race of pre-Adamic men who
had no souls. Then, as a result of Lucifer's rebellion and fall
(Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28), the earth-Lucifer's domain-became chaos. The
picture of formlessness, emptiness, and darkness in Genesis 1:2 is
allegedly a picture of divine judgment, for God could not have
originally created the earth this way (see Isaiah 24:1; 45:18;
Jeremiah 4:23-26). Darkness is often used as a symbol of judgment and
sin in Scripture (John 3:19; Jude 13). The original creation in
Genesis 1:1 was one of light, but after God judged the earth, it was
characterized by darkness (verse 2). Millions of years-perhaps even
billions of years-are said to have taken place between verses 1 and 2.
Hence the 'gap' theory.

"Gap proponents typically translate Genesis 1:2 this way: 'But the
earth became without form and empty' (italics added). Traditional
translations render it, 'But the earth was without form and
empty' (italics added). Gap proponents argue that the earth
'became' (Hebrew: hayetha) without form and empty when God judged the
world as a result of Lucifer's sin. The words 'without form and
void' (Hebrew: tohu wa-bohu) appear elsewhere only in Isaiah 34:11 and
Jeremiah 4:23, and in these verses 'formless' and 'void' speak of
judgment and destruction. Therefore, the words must have the same
meaning in Genesis 1.

"In this view, God's judgment on the earth involved a devastating
global flood followed by an Ice Age. All life on planet earth was
apparently extinguished. The apparent old age of the earth and the
extensive fossils showing development over long periods of time relate
to this first creation. The six days of creation discussed throughout
the rest of Genesis 1 (verse 2 and following) relate to God's re-
creation or restoration of the earth, not the original creation. This
reconstruction probably took place around 4000 B.C."

Ron Rhodes, The 10 Things You Should Know About the Creation Vs.
Evolution Debate (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 2004), 45-46.

From my perspective we can treat Genesis one of four ways.

1.> Genesis is a remarkable piece of literature written by a nomadic
desert tribe basically making itself feel good by writing how they are
better than the rest of us because their god can beat up your god.
But basically as beautiful and inspirational as it is, its primarily a
work of fiction wishing it was true.

2.> Genesis is an ACTUAL accurate record of what YHWH told Moses on
Mount Zion and should be taken absolutely literal and that GOD created
the earth and the universe in six days and the universe and the earth
are about 6,000 years old and any data that suggest otherwise is
either misinterpreted, fraudulent, or was placed their by GOD to test
our faith.

3.> Genesis is an ACTUAL accurate record of what YHWH told Moses on
Mount Zion and should be taken figuratively. GOD in his wisdom used
metaphor and simile to describe a process that actually occured over
billions of years but each epoch of the process represented a day in
the life of GOD. From GOD'S eternal perspective the billions of years
leading up to Adam and Eve were like 5 days.

I once read an excellent scientific article that explained how Genesis
correlated to the major stages that science now believes the universe
went through as it expanded from the Big bang. The Universe was
thousands of years old before the expanding mega-hot plasma cooled to
the point that photons could actually travel more than a few nano-
meters before being reabsorbed by the particle soup. Here is a quick
overview as I remember the article. Can't remember author or
publication, just the concept.

====
Day One: Big Bang to transparency of light.

The Radiation Era (And God said let there be light)
10,000 years

The first major era in the history of the universe is one in which
most of the energy is in the form of radiation -- different
wavelengths of light, X rays, radio waves and ultraviolet rays. This
energy is the remnant of the primordial fireball, and as the universe
expands, the waves of radiation are stretched and diluted until today,
they make up the faint glow of microwaves which bathe the entire
universe.

Day Two: Transparency of Light to Domination of Matter

The second epoch of the Big bang was when the univers cooled so that
matter could form as stable atoms. Beginning the Era of Matter
Domination (GOD separates Earth from Heaven)
300,000 years

At this moment, the energy in matter and the energy in radiation are
equal. But as the relentless expansion continues, the waves of light
are stretched to lower and lower energy, while the matter travels
onward largely unaffected. At about this time, neutral atoms are
formed as electrons link up with hydrogen and helium nuclei. The
microwave background radiation hails from this moment, and thus gives
us a direct picture of how matter was distributed at this early time.

Day Three: Birth of Stars and Galaxies (God said let dry land appear)

300 million years
Gravity amplifies slight irregularities in the density of the
primordial gas. Even as the universe continues to expand rapidly,
pockets of gas become more and more dense. Stars ignite within these
pockets, and groups of stars become the earliest galaxies. This point
is still perhaps 12 to 15 billion years before the present.

Day Four: Birth of the Sun and our Solar system (And God said, let
there be lights that mark the seasons.)

5 Billion Years Before the Present
The sun forms within a cloud of gas in a spiral arm of the Milky Way
Galaxy. A vast disk of gas and debris that swirls around this new star
gives birth to planets, moons, and asteroids . Earth is the third
planet out and the moon is its companion.

Day Five: Life Evolves (And God said, "Let the water, earth and air
teem with living creatures)
3.8 Billion Years BP
The Earth has cooled and an atmosphere develops. Microscopic living
cells, neither plants nor animals, begin to evolve and flourish in
earth's many volcanic environments.

Primitive Animals Appear
700 Million Years BP
These are mostly flatworms, jelly fish and algae. By 570 million years
before the present, large numbers of creatures with hard shells
suddenly appear.

The First Mammals Appear
200 Million Years BP
The first mammals evolved from a class of reptiles that evolved
mammalian traits, such as a segmented jaw and a series of bones that
make up the inner ear.

Dinosaurs Become Extinct
65 Million Years BP
An asteroid or comet slams into the northern part of the Yucatan
Peninsula in Mexico. This world-wide cataclysm brings to an end the
long age of the dinosaurs, and allows mammals to diversify and expand
their ranges.

Day 6: Man appears (And God said let us make man in our image)

Homo Sapiens Evolve
600,000 Years BP
Our earliest ancestors evolve in Africa from a line of creatures that
descended from apes.

Here is the url I used to get the epochs from.
http://www.strangemusic.com/BBTL.htm

======
To summarize this viewpoint it is that Genesis is the word of GOD but
very symbolic and metaphorical..


4.> Genesis is an ACTUAL accurate record of what YHWH told Moses on
Mount Zion and should be taken literally from the perspective of the
planet. When Genesis is translated properly we understand that Gensis
is an Account of Gods repairing the Earth after something bad happened
to it.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth. 2
And the Earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the
face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the
waters. KJV

The key to understanding Genesis is in how Gen. 1:2 is commonly
translated from Hebrew to English. In the original Hebrew, the words
are (transliterated into the English alphabet) erets hayah tohuw bohuw
choshek paniym tehowm ruwach elohiym rachaph al paniym mayim. The
meaning of the these words, as cross-referenced in the Hebrew/English
Dictionary of Strong's Concordance are:

(erets - Earth ) (hayah - was, come to pass, became) (tohuw -
formlessness, confusion, chaos) (bohuw - emptiness, void, waste)
(choshek - darkness, obscurity ) (paniym - face, surface) (tehowm -
primeval ocean, deep) (ruwach - wind, breath, mind, spirit ) (Elohiym
- God) (rachaph - move, hover) (al - over) (paniym - face, surface)
(mayim - waters, waterflood).

The second Hebrew word in Genesis 1:2 is hayah, which should be
translated as "came to pass," or, for the most accurate word for word
translation, "became." If just a few words from the ancient Hebrew are
translated more accurately into English, the translation that results
provides a deeper understanding that solves the puzzle.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth. 2
And it came to pass that the Earth became a wasteland, empty and
chaotic; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of
God moved upon the face of the waters.

The sentence in Gen. 1:1, In the beginning God created the heaven and
the Earth, can be treated as a statement that stands by itself.
Millions or billion of years passed between Gen. 1:1 and Gen. 1:2.
Instead of Genesis 1 being about how God created the heavens and Earth
in seven days, it is about how God repaired (renewed) the Earth in
seven days. The renewing was necessary because of the terrible
cataclysm that had wiped all life off of the face of the Earth. The
tragic event that required God to personally come down and repair the
Earth was the War of the Angels. It was Lucifer who was responsible
for plunging the planet into frozen darkness.
http://reluctant-messenger.com/rebellion.htm


Day 1-Black Smoke and Dark Clouds covered the Earth: The world was
frozen and covered with a dark atmosphere, choked with smoke and
clouds. The air was so thick with corruption that no light could
glimmer through it. Lucifer's destruction was so complete that
possibly only a few deep-sea creatures were still alive. The seas were
frozen or close to freezing up. If the Spirit of God hadn't
intervened, eventually, even the deep-sea creatures would have died.
Genesis 1:2 begins with the Spirit of God hovering over the water.
Obviously, science understands the universe was not created from
water. By accepting both Science and Genesis, understanding can be
achieved. Conditions Similar to Nuclear Winter: The conditions
described in Genesis resemble the same conditions of a nuclear winter.
The term "nuclear winter" was coined to describe the effect a nuclear
war would have on Earth's atmosphere. Hydrogen bombs exploding all
over the Earth would raise so much dust into the atmosphere that the
Earth would be completely cut off from the Sun's warming rays. The
result would be a terrible, planet-wide winter. The Earth would be so
cold and dark that all life would cease to exist. This pre-historic
planet-wide freeze would explain why the mammoths were frozen so
quickly that many have been found with food still in their mouths. It
has always been a puzzle to scientists as to how or why they became
frozen so quickly. Research indicates that many species disappeared
over night, geologically speaking. Somewhere between 10,000 and 6,000
years ago, the Earth lost mammoths, saber toothed tigers, giant
armadillos and such. The best current scientific theory is violent
climate changes. Gen. 1:2 ...God divided the light from the darkness. On
the first day, God cleared the atmosphere enough for light to
penetrate to the Earth's surface. And God called the light Day, and
the darkness he called Night. (KJV throughout unless noted otherwise)


Day 2-The Ice Melts: Gen. 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament
in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the
waters. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the
morning were the second day.

The temperature of the Earth was so cold that the seas were frozen and
the land was covered in deep ice and snow. God warmed the Earth so
that water separated from the ice to become water below and clouds
above. This is what is meant to divide the waters from the waters to
create the heavens. ...And the evening and the morning were the second
day.

Day 3-Dry Land and Plants Appear: Gen. 1:10 And God called the dry
land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas:
and God saw that it was good. Warming the Earth and melting the ice
caused massive flooding. The melted water settled in the low areas
revealing the land. Gen. 1:11 And God said, Let the Earth bring forth
grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after
his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the Earth: and it was so. ...
And the evening and the morning were the third day. The cold had
killed all the plants. God needed the plants to be back in place
before placing animals on the Earth so they would have something to
eat.

Day 4-Sun, Moon and Stars Revealed: Scientists criticize the accuracy
of God supposedly creating the Sun, Moon and Stars on the fourth day.
Since Genesis records God repairing the Earth, now the fourth day
makes sense. On the third day, the atmosphere was still steamy and
full of clouds. On day two, the ice had just been converted into water
and vapor clouds. By day four, the atmosphere wasn't clear yet. Clouds
still covered the Earth heavily on day three. As the floods subsided,
God brought the water-loving plants back into the world, but the
cloudy steamy atmosphere prevented a clear view of the celestial
heavens.

Gen. 1:14-19 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the
heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs,
and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights
in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the Earth: and it
was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the
day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the
Earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the
light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening
and the morning were the fourth day.

It doesn't match scientific evidence for the Sun and Stars to have
been created after the Earth. What God did on the fourth day was to
finish cleaning up the air and break up the cloud cover. The Sun, Moon
and Stars were hidden up to this time because the atmosphere had
become so polluted and dark by the War of the Angels. This theory
matches the scientific record. The Sun came before the Earth and was
not created a day after God put plants on the Earth. Gen. 1:1 states
God created the heavens and the Earth. The Sun, Moon, and Stars are
part of the heavens. Verse 2 is later in the timeline; it is not the
beginning of a detailed commentary of Verse 1, which stands alone. God
created the heavens and the Earth, period. The heavens are mentioned
again in Verse 4, billions of years later than Verse 1 in the
timeline. The Sun, Moon, and Stars existed before the Rebellion of
Lucifer and were hidden by the darkness created by Lucifer. God
cleared the air for the plants restored on day three so they could
have sunshine. Biblical Hebrew is not a "tense" language: Why is the
language of day four in present tense and not past tense? It doesn't
read "God had made," it reads, "God made." Biblical Hebrew is not a
"tense" language. Modern grammarians recognize that it is an
"aspectual" language. This means that the same form of a verb can be
translated as past, present, or future depending on the context and
various grammatical cues. When it references the Sun and Stars, the
original Hebrew does not indicate when the Sun and Stars were made,
(i.e. present tense) but simply a statement that God made them to be
for times and seasons and so forth. Genesis 1 is a record of God
repairing the damage caused by Lucifer's war. The fourth day was the
day the clouds were cleared by God so that the Sun, Moon, and Stars
could be seen.

Day 5-Fish and Birds restored: Gen. 1:20-23 And God said, Let the
waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and
fowl that may fly above the Earth in the open firmament of heaven. And
God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth in the
waters did God create. And every winged fowl after his kind did God
place for his pleasure. And the evening and the morning were the fifth
day.

Day 6-Animals and Mankind restored: Gen. 1:24-27 And God said, Let the
Earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and
creeping thing, and beast of the Earth after his kind: and it was so.
And God made the beast of the Earth after his kind, and cattle after
their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the Earth after his
kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in
our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the
fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle,
and over all the Earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth
upon the Earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of
God created he him; male and female created he them.

SUMMARY: Genesis is not a record of God creating the Heavens and the
Earth from nothing in seven days but instead a record of God repairing
the Earth in seven days. From Verse 2 of Genesis 1 on, the remainder
of this first chapter of the Bible is not describing the original
creation of the Earth. But it is describing a renewing of the face of
the Earth, after it had become waste and empty as a result of the sin
of the angels.


Day 7-God Rests: Gen. 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the Earth were
finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended
his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all
his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and
sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work
which God created and made.

=======

I believe this is an accurate view of the four main approaches taken
by most people. I am now going to share with you what I believe to be
the most probable correct interpretations on a scale of 0% to 100% and
why.


1.> Genesis is only a remarkable piece of literature: 0% - If it hadnt
been for the discovery of the Torah Codes, which is another huge
controversy of itself. See:http://reluctant-messenger.com/
torah_codes.htm -- the nomadic literature theory would have more
traction.

In my opinion the discovery of the Torah Codes proves Genesis is from
YHWH and not just nomadic literature. I know the Torah Codes could
turn into another thread so rather than have it pollute this one I ask
if anyone wants to discuss it, start a new thread. Had it not been
for the discovery of the Bible Codes / Torah Codes I wouldn't have any
trouble considering the Bible as so much ancient literature to be
appreciated but not taken literal.

2.> Genesis is literal and Earth/Universe is 6,000 yers old. 0% The
slam dunk as I had posted elsewhere is that the speed of light proves
the universe is Billions of years old. And I don't buy for a second
that GOD made the Earth and Universe look billions of years old to
test our faith.

3.> Genesis is symbolic of 7 epochs of the BIG Bang until NOW. 5%
The reason I can give this approach 5% is because of the scriptures
that say "To God a day is like 1,000 years and a 1,000 years is like a
day," So I am willing to hold out that quite possibly anything written
in Genesis reflects that truth by showing us that billions of years of
evolution is like a week in the life of an eternal God.


4.> Genesis is an ACTUAL accurate record of GOD repairing the Earth.
**I'm 95% convinced this is the most logical approach to understanding
Genesis. What really sold me on this was when Scientist discovered in
Antartica Core Samples that there was massive volcanic residue in the
form af heavy metals 6,100 years ago (long before it could have been
attibuted to pollution from industry.) See:
http://reluctant-messenger.com/ancient_dust.htm

Genesis 2 verses 1 and 4 appear to contradict the theory that Genesis
1 is an account of GOD repairing the Earth.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were
finished.

Gen 2:4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they
were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the
heavens...

Q: Don't these verses plainly discredit the notion that Genesis 1 is
an account of GOD repairing the Earth after the War of the Angels?
Verse 4 plainly states that Genenis 1 was a history of GOD creating
the heavens and Earth, not repairing them.

A: It definitely appears to do so in English. But, the original text
was written in Hebrew and was translated into English under the
assumption that Genesis 1 was a description of a 7 day creation from
nothing. Examining the original Hebrew in verse 1 actually confirms
that this was a repair of the Earth after a war.

The word translated into English as HOST is tsaba' {tsaw-baw'}.
According to the TWOT - Theological Word Book of the Old Testament the
definition of TSABA is: that which goes forth, army, war, warfare, or
host. This word is almost always translated elsewhere in the Old
Testament in the context of war or warfare. But, because the
translaters assumed the word was being used in the context of creating
the entire universe the word host was used to indicate GOD created the
entire Universe. What was actually being communicated was that the War
was over because the Sky and Land had been brought back to its
original state before the war. (The word translated as heaven can also
mean sky or air).

The word translated in verse 4 as CREATED is the Hebrew word
bara' {baw-raw'}, which is a verb. Once, again, the translators
assumed that the heaveans and earth were created in seven days so
other, more accurate, English words were not considered. The
definition of BARA according to the Theological Word Book of the Old
Testament is: to create, shape, or form. One of the alternate meaning
listed is transformations. In other words, the translators could have
said it was an account of when the sky and land was transformed. The
word translated as HISTORY is towldah {to-led-aw'}, which also can be
translated as results. And the word translated as MADE, is from the
Hebrew word `asah {aw-saw'} which the Theological Word Book of the Old
Testament defines as: to do, fashion, accomplish, or make.

Lets go back and see what the meaning would be if the translators had
known of the War of the Angels and the fact that Genesis was an
account of the land and air being transformed back to its state before
the war.

1 Thus the war of the heavens and earth was brought to an end. . . . 4
This is the result of the heavens and of the earth being transformed,
in the day that the LORD God accomplished it for the land and air.

According to the Theological Word Book of the Old Testament, the above
translation is just as accurate from a technical perspective but, it
makes a huge difference in the meaning and is consistent with GOD
repairing the Earth after a war had destroyed it.

Well, I feel I have just about exhausted what I can say on this
subject for now.

However, if you want a classic 6,000 year old Universe viewpoint that
is very mainstream in how it rebuts the Gap Theory I would like to
share this gem I found.

What is the "Gap Theory?", its origin and history?
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c003.html

Here is a critical Gap Theory website that concludes it falls in the
category of a deceptive teaching which can have adverse effects upon
those who will believe it. http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=36

More Gap Theory Critical sites
http://layhands.com/GapTheory.htm
http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=type&ID=1
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/beginning.asp
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-gaptheory-problems.html
http://www.gospelcenterchurch.org/Gaptheory2.html


For a more balanced viewpoint Wikipedia has
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gap_creationism

Apologetics Press has:
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/442


Gap Theory Proponent Sites
http://www.kjvbible.org/
http://www.raptureready.com/faq/faq89.html
http://reluctant-messenger.com/
http://www.ichthys.com/sr2-copy.htm
http://www.learnthebible.org/gap_or_not.htm
http://creationdays.dk/
http://the-gap-theory.blogspot.com/

Chester

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http://reluctant-messenger.com/
Science and the World's Religions are pieces to a puzzle that need
each other to form a complete picture.

--

Pastor Dave

Expand and go out into the ocean of your faith.
God doesn't do His deepest work in the shallowest
part of the water.

The world says that seeing is believing.
The Bible says that believing is seeing.

Doctrine is not Scripture.