Religions > Bible > Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"gatekeeper" |
| Date: |
27 Sep 2006 02:47:56 AM |
| Object: |
Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
Free Lunch wrote:
On 26 Sep 2006 18:39:12 -0700, in talk.origins
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1159321152.634855.5970@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 22:19:06 -0700, in talk.origins
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1159247946.535119.12830@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:27:22 -0400, in talk.origins
"Dan Wood" <danwood34@gmail.com> wrote in
<2JYRg.13014$vi3.6750@bignews3.bellsouth.net>:
"Ye Old One" <usenet@mcsuk.net> wrote in message
news:oqgbh21v4ime03ug6hc62loq32vspgdvls@4ax.com...
On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:09:56 -0400, "Dan Wood" <danwood34@gmail.com>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:4515A889.6010901@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Dan Wood wrote:
[SNIPALOT]
No problem. I am a Christian, but I'm not a creationist. I believe
God
could
have created the universe, planets and life any way he chose. If he
chose
to create through evolution, who am I to dispute the evidence?
Dan Wood, DDS
===>That is a "goddidit" just the same,
though a move in the right direction.
You show that evolution and theism are not
totally incompatible, but do not show any value
to the pseudo-hypothesis of "God". -- L.
You have the right to believe anything that seems
reasonable and logical to you and I wish the best
for you. I hope for the same right for myself.
Until someone demonstrates that there is no God
I have no choice, but to accept God's existence
as a reality. Even so I have no imperative to
convince anyone of the validity of my position.
Dan
That is a slightly mad standpoint to take. Until there is some shread
of evidence for the existance of god(s) then the logical standpoint
woudl be to reject the concept of god(s).
There is evidence which I personally find satisfying.
But I have found that most skeptics demand proof
of God's existence before they are willing to consider
any evidence as potentially evidence for God.
IOW if there is any evidence which proves God
this evidence is inadmissible until God is shown
to exist.
And this, in my opinion, constitutes a hopeless catch - 22
situation.
It would be, if it were true. Offer the evidence. Let us be rational in
accepting it or rejecting it.
Part of the evidence is your inability to be rational, your rational
powers have been corrupted.
Please provide evidence to support your claim.
If the lense on the Hubble was out of
focus, the batteries all dead, would it affect your ability to observe
Andromeda? And yet Andromeda would still be there to be marveled at by
a child on a dark night using simple binoculars. How much more tragic,
that you a supposedly intelligent mature individual would not even lift
your eyes, less you see the stars for the first time, as if they could
not possibly exist.
So, you are back to unthinking assertions and unsupportable claims.
Lift up your eyes all you nations, the King of Kings has entered the
City of God!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
So you say, but when asked for help with the evidence, you insult those
who ask you.
I did not hear you asking for help with the evidence. What evidence
are you asking about?
I have asked for evidence to support the claim that "But I have found
that most skeptics demand proof of God's existence before they are
willing to consider any evidence as potentially evidence for God." You
responded with the utterly meaningless "Part of the evidence is your
inability to be rational, your rational powers have been corrupted."
What help are you desiring? If I missed your
question, I apologize, but as you know this is a very busy, noisy
street! Please restate your question, and I will try to listen better!
I am asking for evidence to support the claim that one or more gods
exist and furthermore what evidence can you point to that the particular
god that you believe in exists.
The Eastgate is open, The King is in residence! Whomsoever will may
come in!
Gatekeeper
I am very interested, and willing to answer your questions, but a few
things first!
First, you already have ask more than one question, so I need you to
further explain what is your question, or if you are asking more than
one, that is ok also. However I want you to be clear to yourself, me,
and others, what your questions are!
Second, what sincere response can I expect from you, to my answer. In
other words, is your question sincere, or just conversational. I will
be willing to answer your question either way, but that way there is no
unexpected response from you, that would surprise us both.
Third, I believe the more the merrier, so I would like to suggest that
I not actually answer this question until others who are also
interested, have opportunity to check in, and indicate their interest
as well. That way we can have a real party!
Fourth, in order to accomplish this I would like to move this
discussion to a new thread, that way the discussion is not just between
you and I, lost in this rather large thread!
In fact, I am going to copy your question to a new thread as soon as I
get done here, and then if others want to check in, they could post as
well, possibly indicating the nature of evidence that they would like
to see. That way we could most efficiently answer all of your
questions, and have a single thread to work with. I will have it set up
to cross post to all of the current threads that this thread goes to so
that no one is left out of this grand experiment.
If you have any other suggestions, I would be more than glad to
entertain them on this new thread. I would be prepared to give you an
answer in a week, today being 9/27, so that on 10/04, we could have
everyone happily gathered. If this is suitable to you, please let me
know, on the new thread. I will be looking for your response!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
.
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| User: "Bobby Bryant" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
28 Sep 2006 01:37:30 AM |
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In article <1159343276.724760.209810@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> writes:
Free Lunch wrote:
On 26 Sep 2006 18:39:12 -0700, in talk.origins
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1159321152.634855.5970@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 22:19:06 -0700, in talk.origins
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1159247946.535119.12830@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:27:22 -0400, in talk.origins
"Dan Wood" <danwood34@gmail.com> wrote in
<2JYRg.13014$vi3.6750@bignews3.bellsouth.net>:
"Ye Old One" <usenet@mcsuk.net> wrote in message
news:oqgbh21v4ime03ug6hc62loq32vspgdvls@4ax.com...
On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:09:56 -0400, "Dan Wood" <danwood34@gmail.com>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:4515A889.6010901@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Dan Wood wrote:
[SNIPALOT]
No problem. I am a Christian, but I'm not a creationist. I believe
God
could
have created the universe, planets and life any way he chose. If he
chose
to create through evolution, who am I to dispute the evidence?
Dan Wood, DDS
===>That is a "goddidit" just the same,
though a move in the right direction.
You show that evolution and theism are not
totally incompatible, but do not show any value
to the pseudo-hypothesis of "God". -- L.
You have the right to believe anything that seems
reasonable and logical to you and I wish the best
for you. I hope for the same right for myself.
Until someone demonstrates that there is no God
I have no choice, but to accept God's existence
as a reality. Even so I have no imperative to
convince anyone of the validity of my position.
Dan
That is a slightly mad standpoint to take. Until there is some shread
of evidence for the existance of god(s) then the logical standpoint
woudl be to reject the concept of god(s).
There is evidence which I personally find satisfying.
But I have found that most skeptics demand proof
of God's existence before they are willing to consider
any evidence as potentially evidence for God.
IOW if there is any evidence which proves God
this evidence is inadmissible until God is shown
to exist.
And this, in my opinion, constitutes a hopeless catch - 22
situation.
It would be, if it were true. Offer the evidence. Let us be rational in
accepting it or rejecting it.
Part of the evidence is your inability to be rational, your rational
powers have been corrupted.
Please provide evidence to support your claim.
If the lense on the Hubble was out of
focus, the batteries all dead, would it affect your ability to observe
Andromeda? And yet Andromeda would still be there to be marveled at by
a child on a dark night using simple binoculars. How much more tragic,
that you a supposedly intelligent mature individual would not even lift
your eyes, less you see the stars for the first time, as if they could
not possibly exist.
So, you are back to unthinking assertions and unsupportable claims.
Lift up your eyes all you nations, the King of Kings has entered the
City of God!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
So you say, but when asked for help with the evidence, you insult those
who ask you.
I did not hear you asking for help with the evidence. What evidence
are you asking about?
I have asked for evidence to support the claim that "But I have found
that most skeptics demand proof of God's existence before they are
willing to consider any evidence as potentially evidence for God." You
responded with the utterly meaningless "Part of the evidence is your
inability to be rational, your rational powers have been corrupted."
What help are you desiring? If I missed your
question, I apologize, but as you know this is a very busy, noisy
street! Please restate your question, and I will try to listen better!
I am asking for evidence to support the claim that one or more gods
exist and furthermore what evidence can you point to that the particular
god that you believe in exists.
The Eastgate is open, The King is in residence! Whomsoever will may
come in!
Gatekeeper
I am very interested, and willing to answer your questions, but a few
things first!
First, you already have ask more than one question, so I need you to
further explain what is your question, or if you are asking more than
one, that is ok also. However I want you to be clear to yourself, me,
and others, what your questions are!
Second, what sincere response can I expect from you, to my answer. In
other words, is your question sincere, or just conversational. I will
be willing to answer your question either way, but that way there is no
unexpected response from you, that would surprise us both.
Third, I believe the more the merrier, so I would like to suggest that
I not actually answer this question until others who are also
interested, have opportunity to check in, and indicate their interest
as well. That way we can have a real party!
Fourth, in order to accomplish this I would like to move this
discussion to a new thread, that way the discussion is not just between
you and I, lost in this rather large thread!
In fact, I am going to copy your question to a new thread as soon as I
get done here, and then if others want to check in, they could post as
well, possibly indicating the nature of evidence that they would like
to see. That way we could most efficiently answer all of your
questions, and have a single thread to work with. I will have it set up
to cross post to all of the current threads that this thread goes to so
that no one is left out of this grand experiment.
If you have any other suggestions, I would be more than glad to
entertain them on this new thread.
Here's a suggestion: stop making excuses and answer the question.
--
Bobby Bryant
Reno, Nevada
Remove your hat to reply by e-mail.
.
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| User: "Mark Nutter" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
28 Sep 2006 05:42:45 AM |
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Bobby Bryant wrote:
Here's a suggestion: stop making excuses and answer the question.
I think the idea is that on Oct 4, his Internet connection gets cut
off, and people say, "Yes! There is a god!"
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| User: "Ye Old One" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
27 Sep 2006 03:44:27 AM |
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On 27 Sep 2006 00:47:56 -0700, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
If you have any other suggestions, I would be more than glad to
entertain them on this new thread. I would be prepared to give you an
answer in a week, today being 9/27,
Today is 27/9/2006.
so that on 10/04,
10th April is a lot further away than one week.
we could have
everyone happily gathered. If this is suitable to you, please let me
know, on the new thread. I will be looking for your response!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
Itf your answer is as bright as your date keeping then I look forward
to the laugh.
--
Bob.
.
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| User: "Larry Moran" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
27 Sep 2006 07:24:15 AM |
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On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:44:27 GMT, Ye Old One <usenet@mcsuk.net> wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 00:47:56 -0700, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
If you have any other suggestions, I would be more than glad to
entertain them on this new thread. I would be prepared to give you an
answer in a week, today being 9/27,
Today is 27/9/2006.
so that on 10/04,
10th April is a lot further away than one week.
[snip]
Itf your answer is as bright as your date keeping then I look forward
to the laugh.
Have you ever heard of 9/11? Was that in November?
You are an idiot.
Larry Moran
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| User: "Klaus" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
27 Sep 2006 05:39:13 PM |
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Ye Old One wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 00:47:56 -0700, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
If you have any other suggestions, I would be more than glad to
entertain them on this new thread. I would be prepared to give you an
answer in a week, today being 9/27,
Today is 27/9/2006.
Today is 9/27/06. A bit over two weeks past 9/11/06.
Klaus
so that on 10/04,
10th April is a lot further away than one week.
we could have
everyone happily gathered. If this is suitable to you, please let me
know, on the new thread. I will be looking for your response!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
Itf your answer is as bright as your date keeping then I look forward
to the laugh.
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
27 Sep 2006 08:51:27 PM |
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Klaus wrote:
Ye Old One wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 00:47:56 -0700, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> enriched this group when s/he
wrote:
If you have any other suggestions, I would be more than glad to
entertain them on this new thread. I would be prepared to give you
an answer in a week, today being 9/27,
Today is 27/9/2006.
Today is 9/27/06. A bit over two weeks past 9/11/06.
Klaus
Unless you are in the US Army in which case it is 27/9/2006 a bit over two
weeks past 11/9/2006, or in any number of other countries or using an old
dBase II database...
.
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| User: "Ye Old One" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
28 Sep 2006 03:50:06 AM |
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On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:39:13 GMT, Klaus <khellnick@sbcglobal.net>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
Ye Old One wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 00:47:56 -0700, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
If you have any other suggestions, I would be more than glad to
entertain them on this new thread. I would be prepared to give you an
answer in a week, today being 9/27,
Today is 27/9/2006.
Today is 9/27/06. A bit over two weeks past 9/11/06.
Klaus
Well today is, according to date on my computer, the 28th Day of
September in the year 2006. 28/09/2006 or 2006/09/28.
--
Bob.
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| User: "CreateThis" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
27 Sep 2006 01:24:34 PM |
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On 27 Sep 2006 00:47:56 -0700, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
... I would be prepared to give you an
answer in a week, today being 9/27, so that on 10/04, we could have
everyone happily gathered.
For what? You're supposed to have some "evidence" of a god that
hasn't been proposed in the past few thousand years?
LOL.
<plonk>
CT
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| User: "Mark Nutter" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
27 Sep 2006 02:29:58 PM |
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CreateThis wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 00:47:56 -0700, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
... I would be prepared to give you an
answer in a week, today being 9/27, so that on 10/04, we could have
everyone happily gathered.
For what? You're supposed to have some "evidence" of a god that
hasn't been proposed in the past few thousand years?
He's had it hidden all this time, he's just waiting for Rick Moranis,
aka "The Keymaster".
m
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| User: "CreateThis" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
27 Sep 2006 10:02:20 PM |
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On 27 Sep 2006 12:29:58 -0700, "Mark Nutter" <manutter51@yahoo.com>
wrote:
CreateThis wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 00:47:56 -0700, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
... I would be prepared to give you an
answer in a week, today being 9/27, so that on 10/04, we could have
everyone happily gathered.
For what? You're supposed to have some "evidence" of a god that
hasn't been proposed in the past few thousand years?
He's had it hidden all this time, he's just waiting for Rick Moranis,
aka "The Keymaster".
Sigourney Weaver: "I want you inside me."
Dan Akroyd: "Isn't it a little crowded in there already?"
CT
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
27 Sep 2006 10:22:03 PM |
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CreateThis <CreateThis@yippee.con> wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 12:29:58 -0700, "Mark Nutter" <manutter51@yahoo.com>
wrote:
CreateThis wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 00:47:56 -0700, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
... I would be prepared to give you an
answer in a week, today being 9/27, so that on 10/04, we could have
everyone happily gathered.
For what? You're supposed to have some "evidence" of a god that
hasn't been proposed in the past few thousand years?
He's had it hidden all this time, he's just waiting for Rick Moranis,
aka "The Keymaster".
Sigourney Weaver: "I want you inside me."
Dan Akroyd: "Isn't it a little crowded in there already?"
Shirley you mean Bill Murray?
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: scienceblogs.com/evolvingthoughts
"He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor,
bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious."
.
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| User: "CreateThis" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
27 Sep 2006 10:33:53 PM |
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On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:22:03 +1000, (John
Wilkins) wrote:
CreateThis <CreateThis@yippee.con> wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 12:29:58 -0700, "Mark Nutter" <manutter51@yahoo.com>
wrote:
CreateThis wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 00:47:56 -0700, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
... I would be prepared to give you an
answer in a week, today being 9/27, so that on 10/04, we could have
everyone happily gathered.
For what? You're supposed to have some "evidence" of a god that
hasn't been proposed in the past few thousand years?
He's had it hidden all this time, he's just waiting for Rick Moranis,
aka "The Keymaster".
Sigourney Weaver: "I want you inside me."
Dan Akroyd: "Isn't it a little crowded in there already?"
Shirley you mean Bill Murray?
Aren't they the same person?
CT
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| User: "Kleuskes & Moos" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
29 Sep 2006 10:50:54 AM |
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CreateThis schreef:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:22:03 +1000, (John
Wilkins) wrote:
CreateThis <CreateThis@yippee.con> wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 12:29:58 -0700, "Mark Nutter" <manutter51@yahoo.com>
wrote:
CreateThis wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 00:47:56 -0700, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
... I would be prepared to give you an
answer in a week, today being 9/27, so that on 10/04, we could have
everyone happily gathered.
For what? You're supposed to have some "evidence" of a god that
hasn't been proposed in the past few thousand years?
He's had it hidden all this time, he's just waiting for Rick Moranis,
aka "The Keymaster".
Sigourney Weaver: "I want you inside me."
Dan Akroyd: "Isn't it a little crowded in there already?"
Shirley you mean Bill Murray?
Aren't they the same person?
One is a Blues Brother, the other is lost in translation...
CT
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| User: "VoiceOfReason" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
27 Sep 2006 05:47:34 AM |
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Why do you need evidence?
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| User: "SeppoP" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
27 Sep 2006 10:01:15 AM |
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gatekeeper wrote:
<snip>
Gatekeeper
I guess I'm waiting with - the term is "bated breath" - I guess. Please, *do* surprise us with something significant!
--
Seppo P.
What's wrong with Theocracy? (a Finnish Taliban, Oct 1, 2005)
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
28 Sep 2006 01:58:35 PM |
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On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:01:15 +0300, SeppoP <seppo_pietikainen@xyahoox.com> wrote:
gatekeeper wrote:
<snip>
Gatekeeper
I guess I'm waiting with - the term is "bated breath" - I guess. Please, *do* surprise us with something significant!
Why must we wait until April next year?
--
Seppo P.
Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
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| User: "Zucadragon" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
27 Sep 2006 07:25:59 AM |
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gatekeeper wrote:
<snip>
I am very interested, and willing to answer your questions, but a few
things first!
1 > First, you already have ask more than one question, so I need you to
further explain what is your question, or if you are asking more than
one, that is ok also. However I want you to be clear to yourself, me,
and others, what your questions are!
2 > Second, what sincere response can I expect from you, to my answer. In
other words, is your question sincere, or just conversational. I will
be willing to answer your question either way, but that way there is no
unexpected response from you, that would surprise us both.
3 > Third, I believe the more the merrier, so I would like to suggest that
I not actually answer this question until others who are also
interested, have opportunity to check in, and indicate their interest
as well. That way we can have a real party!
<snip>
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
1. You said you have evidence that supports god.. At one point you say
it is "personal evidence".. Which 'might' bottle down to just blind
faith. I am interested in what you have to offer though.
2. It completely depends on what kind of evidence you provide, you cant
play the doctor that tells a patient that "something is wrong with you,
but I will only tell you if your reaction is not too strong" because the
patient has no clue of what the doctor means with "something is wrong"
and thus will try to think up any kind of reason, but whatever response
the patient gives, it will always depend on the what the doctor provides.
So it all depends on what you provide, give something good, something
that makes us think.. I'd say yeah, people might respond well to that..
I say might.
On the other hand, if you provide us with evidence that has been
provided many times before and isn't actually evidence but just blind
faith, then you can bet on the reaction being less good.
3. So yeah, I'm looking forward to what you have to say, bring it on.
.
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| User: "gatekeeper" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
29 Sep 2006 12:50:39 AM |
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gatekeeper wrote:
Free Lunch wrote:
On 26 Sep 2006 18:39:12 -0700, in talk.origins
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1159321152.634855.5970@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 22:19:06 -0700, in talk.origins
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1159247946.535119.12830@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:27:22 -0400, in talk.origins
"Dan Wood" <danwood34@gmail.com> wrote in
<2JYRg.13014$vi3.6750@bignews3.bellsouth.net>:
"Ye Old One" <usenet@mcsuk.net> wrote in message
news:oqgbh21v4ime03ug6hc62loq32vspgdvls@4ax.com...
On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:09:56 -0400, "Dan Wood" <danwood34@gmail.com>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:4515A889.6010901@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Dan Wood wrote:
[SNIPALOT]
No problem. I am a Christian, but I'm not a creationist. I believe
God
could
have created the universe, planets and life any way he chose. If he
chose
to create through evolution, who am I to dispute the evidence?
Dan Wood, DDS
===>That is a "goddidit" just the same,
though a move in the right direction.
You show that evolution and theism are not
totally incompatible, but do not show any value
to the pseudo-hypothesis of "God". -- L.
You have the right to believe anything that seems
reasonable and logical to you and I wish the best
for you. I hope for the same right for myself.
Until someone demonstrates that there is no God
I have no choice, but to accept God's existence
as a reality. Even so I have no imperative to
convince anyone of the validity of my position.
Dan
That is a slightly mad standpoint to take. Until there is some shread
of evidence for the existance of god(s) then the logical standpoint
woudl be to reject the concept of god(s).
There is evidence which I personally find satisfying.
But I have found that most skeptics demand proof
of God's existence before they are willing to consider
any evidence as potentially evidence for God.
IOW if there is any evidence which proves God
this evidence is inadmissible until God is shown
to exist.
And this, in my opinion, constitutes a hopeless catch - 22
situation.
It would be, if it were true. Offer the evidence. Let us be rational in
accepting it or rejecting it.
Part of the evidence is your inability to be rational, your rational
powers have been corrupted.
Please provide evidence to support your claim.
If the lense on the Hubble was out of
focus, the batteries all dead, would it affect your ability to observe
Andromeda? And yet Andromeda would still be there to be marveled at by
a child on a dark night using simple binoculars. How much more tragic,
that you a supposedly intelligent mature individual would not even lift
your eyes, less you see the stars for the first time, as if they could
not possibly exist.
So, you are back to unthinking assertions and unsupportable claims.
Lift up your eyes all you nations, the King of Kings has entered the
City of God!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
So you say, but when asked for help with the evidence, you insult those
who ask you.
I did not hear you asking for help with the evidence. What evidence
are you asking about?
I have asked for evidence to support the claim that "But I have found
that most skeptics demand proof of God's existence before they are
willing to consider any evidence as potentially evidence for God." You
responded with the utterly meaningless "Part of the evidence is your
inability to be rational, your rational powers have been corrupted."
What help are you desiring? If I missed your
question, I apologize, but as you know this is a very busy, noisy
street! Please restate your question, and I will try to listen better!
I am asking for evidence to support the claim that one or more gods
exist and furthermore what evidence can you point to that the particular
god that you believe in exists.
The Eastgate is open, The King is in residence! Whomsoever will may
come in!
Gatekeeper
I am very interested, and willing to answer your questions, but a few
things first!
First, you already have ask more than one question, so I need you to
further explain what is your question, or if you are asking more than
one, that is ok also. However I want you to be clear to yourself, me,
and others, what your questions are!
Second, what sincere response can I expect from you, to my answer. In
other words, is your question sincere, or just conversational. I will
be willing to answer your question either way, but that way there is no
unexpected response from you, that would surprise us both.
Third, I believe the more the merrier, so I would like to suggest that
I not actually answer this question until others who are also
interested, have opportunity to check in, and indicate their interest
as well. That way we can have a real party!
Fourth, in order to accomplish this I would like to move this
discussion to a new thread, that way the discussion is not just between
you and I, lost in this rather large thread!
In fact, I am going to copy your question to a new thread as soon as I
get done here, and then if others want to check in, they could post as
well, possibly indicating the nature of evidence that they would like
to see. That way we could most efficiently answer all of your
questions, and have a single thread to work with. I will have it set up
to cross post to all of the current threads that this thread goes to so
that no one is left out of this grand experiment.
If you have any other suggestions, I would be more than glad to
entertain them on this new thread. I would be prepared to give you an
answer in a week, today being 9/27, so that on 10/04, we could have
everyone happily gathered. If this is suitable to you, please let me
know, on the new thread. I will be looking for your response!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
Five days and counting, until the party! Don't Forget!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
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| User: "gatekeeper" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
04 Oct 2006 02:39:29 AM |
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gatekeeper wrote:
Free Lunch wrote:
On 26 Sep 2006 18:39:12 -0700, in talk.origins
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1159321152.634855.5970@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 22:19:06 -0700, in talk.origins
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1159247946.535119.12830@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:27:22 -0400, in talk.origins
"Dan Wood" <danwood34@gmail.com> wrote in
<2JYRg.13014$vi3.6750@bignews3.bellsouth.net>:
"Ye Old One" <usenet@mcsuk.net> wrote in message
news:oqgbh21v4ime03ug6hc62loq32vspgdvls@4ax.com...
On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:09:56 -0400, "Dan Wood" <danwood34@gmail.com>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:4515A889.6010901@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Dan Wood wrote:
[SNIPALOT]
No problem. I am a Christian, but I'm not a creationist. I believe
God
could
have created the universe, planets and life any way he chose. If he
chose
to create through evolution, who am I to dispute the evidence?
Dan Wood, DDS
===>That is a "goddidit" just the same,
though a move in the right direction.
You show that evolution and theism are not
totally incompatible, but do not show any value
to the pseudo-hypothesis of "God". -- L.
You have the right to believe anything that seems
reasonable and logical to you and I wish the best
for you. I hope for the same right for myself.
Until someone demonstrates that there is no God
I have no choice, but to accept God's existence
as a reality. Even so I have no imperative to
convince anyone of the validity of my position.
Dan
That is a slightly mad standpoint to take. Until there is some shread
of evidence for the existance of god(s) then the logical standpoint
woudl be to reject the concept of god(s).
There is evidence which I personally find satisfying.
But I have found that most skeptics demand proof
of God's existence before they are willing to consider
any evidence as potentially evidence for God.
IOW if there is any evidence which proves God
this evidence is inadmissible until God is shown
to exist.
And this, in my opinion, constitutes a hopeless catch - 22
situation.
It would be, if it were true. Offer the evidence. Let us be rational in
accepting it or rejecting it.
Part of the evidence is your inability to be rational, your rational
powers have been corrupted.
Please provide evidence to support your claim.
If the lense on the Hubble was out of
focus, the batteries all dead, would it affect your ability to observe
Andromeda? And yet Andromeda would still be there to be marveled at by
a child on a dark night using simple binoculars. How much more tragic,
that you a supposedly intelligent mature individual would not even lift
your eyes, less you see the stars for the first time, as if they could
not possibly exist.
So, you are back to unthinking assertions and unsupportable claims.
Lift up your eyes all you nations, the King of Kings has entered the
City of God!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
So you say, but when asked for help with the evidence, you insult those
who ask you.
I did not hear you asking for help with the evidence. What evidence
are you asking about?
I have asked for evidence to support the claim that "But I have found
that most skeptics demand proof of God's existence before they are
willing to consider any evidence as potentially evidence for God." You
responded with the utterly meaningless "Part of the evidence is your
inability to be rational, your rational powers have been corrupted."
What help are you desiring? If I missed your
question, I apologize, but as you know this is a very busy, noisy
street! Please restate your question, and I will try to listen better!
I am asking for evidence to support the claim that one or more gods
exist and furthermore what evidence can you point to that the particular
god that you believe in exists.
The Eastgate is open, The King is in residence! Whomsoever will may
come in!
Gatekeeper
I am very interested, and willing to answer your questions, but a few
things first!
First, you already have ask more than one question, so I need you to
further explain what is your question, or if you are asking more than
one, that is ok also. However I want you to be clear to yourself, me,
and others, what your questions are!
Second, what sincere response can I expect from you, to my answer. In
other words, is your question sincere, or just conversational. I will
be willing to answer your question either way, but that way there is no
unexpected response from you, that would surprise us both.
Third, I believe the more the merrier, so I would like to suggest that
I not actually answer this question until others who are also
interested, have opportunity to check in, and indicate their interest
as well. That way we can have a real party!
Fourth, in order to accomplish this I would like to move this
discussion to a new thread, that way the discussion is not just between
you and I, lost in this rather large thread!
In fact, I am going to copy your question to a new thread as soon as I
get done here, and then if others want to check in, they could post as
well, possibly indicating the nature of evidence that they would like
to see. That way we could most efficiently answer all of your
questions, and have a single thread to work with. I will have it set up
to cross post to all of the current threads that this thread goes to so
that no one is left out of this grand experiment.
If you have any other suggestions, I would be more than glad to
entertain them on this new thread. I would be prepared to give you an
answer in a week, today being 9/27, so that on 10/04, we could have
everyone happily gathered. If this is suitable to you, please let me
know, on the new thread. I will be looking for your response!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
Free Lunch wrote,
"I am asking for evidence to support the claim that one or more gods
exist and furthermore what evidence can you point to that the
particular
god that you believe in exists"
This thread was started to answer Free Lunch's questions as restated
above, and my answer simply follows -
You are the evidence that there is one God, only one God, and that this
God is the one God that I believe exists, and is revealed by Jesus, and
the Holy Spirit! This applies to you all as well, that ask this
question, and have so patiently waited for an answer, and even more so
to you all, for the evidence is even that much more multiplied by each
one of you!
As a witness, I have testified of the evidence that I have, it is up to
you to weigh the evidence, as to whether what I say is true or not!
Weigh carefully, for it is your own souls that are in the balance!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
04 Oct 2006 02:28:08 PM |
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"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com>
snip
You are the evidence that there is one God, only one God, and that this
God is the one God that I believe exists, and is revealed by Jesus, and
the Holy Spirit!
Wrong - That's an unsupported assertion. Do you have any objective,
verifiable evidence?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
05 Oct 2006 12:54:09 AM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com>
snip
You are the evidence that there is one God, only one God, and that this
God is the one God that I believe exists, and is revealed by Jesus, and
the Holy Spirit!
Wrong - That's an unsupported assertion. Do you have any objective,
verifiable evidence?
That wouldn't be prudent...and, true to form, "gatekeeper" provided no such
evidence on October 4. (It's the first hour of October 5 in CST.)
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2006-07 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Milwaukee 4, Houston 2 (May 9)
NEXT GAME: Saturday, October 7 vs. Grand Rapids, 7:35
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| User: "bullpup" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
04 Oct 2006 06:08:47 AM |
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"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159947569.348601.321140@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
This thread was started to answer Free Lunch's questions as restated
above, and my answer simply follows -
You are the evidence that there is one God, only one God, and that this
God is the one God that I believe exists, and is revealed by Jesus, and
the Holy Spirit! This applies to you all as well, that ask this
question, and have so patiently waited for an answer, and even more so
to you all, for the evidence is even that much more multiplied by each
one of you!
As a witness, I have testified of the evidence that I have, it is up to
you to weigh the evidence, as to whether what I say is true or not!
Weigh carefully, for it is your own souls that are in the balance!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
I want a refund. Nothing but the same old crap.
Boikat
--
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage, Mythbusters-
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| User: "Ye Old One" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
04 Oct 2006 06:58:07 AM |
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On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 06:08:47 -0500, "bullpup" <bullpup@bellsouth.net>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159947569.348601.321140@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
This thread was started to answer Free Lunch's questions as restated
above, and my answer simply follows -
You are the evidence that there is one God, only one God, and that this
God is the one God that I believe exists, and is revealed by Jesus, and
the Holy Spirit! This applies to you all as well, that ask this
question, and have so patiently waited for an answer, and even more so
to you all, for the evidence is even that much more multiplied by each
one of you!
As a witness, I have testified of the evidence that I have, it is up to
you to weigh the evidence, as to whether what I say is true or not!
Weigh carefully, for it is your own souls that are in the balance!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
I want a refund. Nothing but the same old crap.
Boikat
Refund?!?!? You mean you actually parted with money? You should knwo
by now that creationists are all con-artists and frauds.
--
Bob.
.
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| User: "bullpup" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
04 Oct 2006 06:40:11 PM |
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"Ye Old One" <usenet@mcsuk.net> wrote in message
news:2d87i25sqhb583tcs6fnadr5v7tsju71pj@4ax.com...
On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 06:08:47 -0500, "bullpup" <bullpup@bellsouth.net>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159947569.348601.321140@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
This thread was started to answer Free Lunch's questions as restated
above, and my answer simply follows -
You are the evidence that there is one God, only one God, and that this
God is the one God that I believe exists, and is revealed by Jesus, and
the Holy Spirit! This applies to you all as well, that ask this
question, and have so patiently waited for an answer, and even more so
to you all, for the evidence is even that much more multiplied by each
one of you!
As a witness, I have testified of the evidence that I have, it is up to
you to weigh the evidence, as to whether what I say is true or not!
Weigh carefully, for it is your own souls that are in the balance!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
I want a refund. Nothing but the same old crap.
Boikat
Refund?!?!? You mean you actually parted with money? You should knwo
by now that creationists are all con-artists and frauds.
No, not money, just the five minutes or so of my life I wasted, in eager
anticipation, I might add, to be graced with *~THE ANSWER~*.
If there is a God, who created Heaven and Hell, I hope he created a special
Hell for Godsmacked morons that think they have *~THE ANSWER~*, and only end
up shooting blanks, thus making God look like some idiotic clown.
A *SPECIAL* Hell...
Boikat
--
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage, Mythbusters-
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| User: "Pangur Ban" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
04 Oct 2006 07:43:55 PM |
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"bullpup" <bullpup@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:BDXUg.28818$eW5.19713@bignews5.bellsouth.net:
"Ye Old One" <usenet@mcsuk.net> wrote in message
news:2d87i25sqhb583tcs6fnadr5v7tsju71pj@4ax.com...
On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 06:08:47 -0500, "bullpup" <bullpup@bellsouth.net>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159947569.348601.321140@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
*snip* for brevity
Boikat
Refund?!?!? You mean you actually parted with money? You should knwo
by now that creationists are all con-artists and frauds.
No, not money, just the five minutes or so of my life I wasted, in
eager anticipation, I might add, to be graced with *~THE ANSWER~*.
If there is a God, who created Heaven and Hell, I hope he created a
special Hell for Godsmacked morons that think they have *~THE
ANSWER~*, and only end up shooting blanks, thus making God look like
some idiotic clown.
Hey, if GK is shooting blanks, at least he won't reproduce.
Pangur - nonchristian theist
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| User: "Ye Old One" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
05 Oct 2006 09:56:27 AM |
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On 05 Oct 2006 00:43:55 GMT, Pangur Ban <Pangur-Ban$@worldnet.att.net>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
Hey, if GK is shooting blanks, at least he won't reproduce.
I think there are other reasons for him not reproducing.
--
Bob.
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| User: "wf3h" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
07 Oct 2006 03:50:58 PM |
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Pangur Ban wrote:
Pangur - nonchristian theist
almost named my cat pangur ban...one of the funniest observations on
human...and cat behavior...in 600 years....
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| User: "gatekeeper" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
04 Oct 2006 07:56:57 PM |
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Pangur Ban wrote:
"bullpup" <bullpup@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:BDXUg.28818$eW5.19713@bignews5.bellsouth.net:
"Ye Old One" <usenet@mcsuk.net> wrote in message
news:2d87i25sqhb583tcs6fnadr5v7tsju71pj@4ax.com...
On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 06:08:47 -0500, "bullpup" <bullpup@bellsouth.net>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159947569.348601.321140@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
*snip* for brevity
Boikat
Refund?!?!? You mean you actually parted with money? You should knwo
by now that creationists are all con-artists and frauds.
No, not money, just the five minutes or so of my life I wasted, in
eager anticipation, I might add, to be graced with *~THE ANSWER~*.
If there is a God, who created Heaven and Hell, I hope he created a
special Hell for Godsmacked morons that think they have *~THE
ANSWER~*, and only end up shooting blanks, thus making God look like
some idiotic clown.
Hey, if GK is shooting blanks, at least he won't reproduce.
Pangur - nonchristian theist
I assure you, that I am not shooting blanks, and you should find great
comfort in that! I have already seen God reproduce through me many
people of faith, and those who love Him!
This is the most exciting challenge, to extend the Love of God to those
who are outside the camp, and see hearts and lives change, when the
Glorious Gospel comes in and sets the captives free!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
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| User: "gatekeeper" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
04 Oct 2006 07:41:34 PM |
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bullpup wrote:
"Ye Old One" <usenet@mcsuk.net> wrote in message
news:2d87i25sqhb583tcs6fnadr5v7tsju71pj@4ax.com...
On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 06:08:47 -0500, "bullpup" <bullpup@bellsouth.net>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159947569.348601.321140@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
This thread was started to answer Free Lunch's questions as restated
above, and my answer simply follows -
You are the evidence that there is one God, only one God, and that this
God is the one God that I believe exists, and is revealed by Jesus, and
the Holy Spirit! This applies to you all as well, that ask this
question, and have so patiently waited for an answer, and even more so
to you all, for the evidence is even that much more multiplied by each
one of you!
As a witness, I have testified of the evidence that I have, it is up to
you to weigh the evidence, as to whether what I say is true or not!
Weigh carefully, for it is your own souls that are in the balance!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
I want a refund. Nothing but the same old crap.
Boikat
Refund?!?!? You mean you actually parted with money? You should knwo
by now that creationists are all con-artists and frauds.
No, not money, just the five minutes or so of my life I wasted, in eager
anticipation, I might add, to be graced with *~THE ANSWER~*.
If there is a God, who created Heaven and Hell, I hope he created a special
Hell for Godsmacked morons that think they have *~THE ANSWER~*, and only end
up shooting blanks, thus making God look like some idiotic clown.
A *SPECIAL* Hell...
Boikat
--
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage, Mythbusters-
Sorry, about the popcorn and beer, but as short as my answer was, you
would hardly had time to get the beer opened any way, so excuse me if I
do not feel too sorry for you!
It does seem that you sincerely wanted to hear a different answer from
me, as if you were hoping to find some reason to believe. So feel free
to ask specific questions, and I will try to give you specific answers.
You also might read the responses that I made to Mark Nutter, since I
did try previously in this thread to address some of his questions. I
look forward to further discussions with you!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
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| User: "Harry K" |
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| Title: Re: Gatekeeper to offer evidence of God on 10/4 Bring your questions |
04 Oct 2006 03:34:39 PM |
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Ye Old One wrote:
On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 06:08:47 -0500, "bullpup" <bullpup@bellsouth.net>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159947569.348601.321140@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
This thread was started to answer Free Lunch's questions as restated
above, and my answer simply follows -
You are the evidence that there is one God, only one God, and that this
God is the one God that I believe exists, and is revealed by Jesus, and
the Holy Spirit! This applies to you all as well, that ask this
question, and have so patiently waited for an answer, and even more so
to you all, for the evidence is even that much more multiplied by each
one of you!
As a witness, I have testified of the evidence that I have, it is up to
you to weigh the evidence, as to whether what I say is true or not!
Weigh carefully, for it is your own souls that are in the balance!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may
come in!
I want a refund. Nothing but the same old crap.
Boikat
Refund?!?!? You mean you actually parted with money? You should knwo
by now that creationists are all con-artists and frauds.
--
Bob.
Well that big gulp and monster popcorn didn't come cheap!
Harry K
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