Gay marriage CRUSHED


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Topic: Religions > Bible
User: "J Young"
Date: 03 Nov 2004 08:50:36 AM
Object: Gay marriage CRUSHED
Eleven states had initiatives on the ballots declaring marriage as
being a union between "a man and a woman". Eleven states approved
these by landslide proportions. Gay marriage is dead in the water, as
it should be. Decency has once again prevailed.
.

User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 15 Nov 2004 06:52:20 AM
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:00:16 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au>
pontificated:

On 2004-11-15 00:31:40 +1100, Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> said:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:02:57 +1100, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au>
yodeled:

On 2004-11-12 13:22:56 +1100, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> said:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:44:26 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:24:59 -0800, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> yodeled:


You became a "pastor" because you wanted to parade the title around
and show off how SMART you are.

According to YOU, all it takes to become a pastor is to decide to
start calling yourself one. Of course, you say you had 'a calling',
but that's just a code word for "I decided to become a pastor one
day".

By YOUR criteria, I could start calling myself a pastor today because
my inner voice told me to.


I see that to you, insults are a way of life. Typical
for your kind. When you cannot refute the points made,
attack the person and make all of the accusations you
want against them, but don't worry about proving any of
them.


Where did I insult you? I said you decided to become a pastor so one
day you started calling yourself one. That IS what you've told us.


No, that is NOT what I told you. You are lying again.


I noticed you SNIPPED much of the post I wrote for you... HERE IT IS
AGAIN:


And what "points" were made in the section of the quoted text above?
I was commenting on your self-labeling of "pastor". What accusations
did I make? When you go to church, does your Pastor refer to you as
"Pastor Dave" or just dave? Does your Pastor even know you call
yourself a 'pastor'?

DO TELL US... I'm willing to bet that your PASTOR doesn't even know
that you call yourself a 'pastor', does he? I definately bet he
wouldn't concider you a PEER.


James, Seattle


True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the day he gets off his fat
chuff, goes down to the local university and takes a course in theology
- yes, one can go to a regular, run of the mill state university and
study that subject. The day he has studied the subject he is to advise
people in, then I'll be quite happy to call him a Pastor.


Another accusation. Care to back it up? Or are you
like James, who makes accusations and then runs away?


I make no accusation, I make a statement of fact.

Then prove it.

Please, Where is your
Bachelor of Theology? care to scan a copy and place it on a website for
all to see? how about a student ID number from the university you went
to? come on, you've given yourself a title of Paster, now back it up.

I see, so you make an accusation against me and when
you are asked to prove your accusation, your idea of
proof is to demand that I prove my title. Gotcha.
Dishonesty meter: [......___..]

If you were to call yourself doctor David, I would be wanting to know
what area did you earn your doctorate in.

Maybe so, but you wouldn't be seeking to ridicule me
because of being a doctor.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
User: "Matty"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 15 Nov 2004 07:57:12 AM
On 2004-11-15 23:52:20 +1100, Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> said:

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:00:16 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au>
pontificated:

On 2004-11-15 00:31:40 +1100, Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> said:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:02:57 +1100, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au>
yodeled:

On 2004-11-12 13:22:56 +1100, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> said:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:44:26 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:24:59 -0800, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> yodeled:


You became a "pastor" because you wanted to parade the title around
and show off how SMART you are.

According to YOU, all it takes to become a pastor is to decide to
start calling yourself one. Of course, you say you had 'a calling',
but that's just a code word for "I decided to become a pastor one
day".

By YOUR criteria, I could start calling myself a pastor today because
my inner voice told me to.


I see that to you, insults are a way of life. Typical
for your kind. When you cannot refute the points made,
attack the person and make all of the accusations you
want against them, but don't worry about proving any of
them.


Where did I insult you? I said you decided to become a pastor so one
day you started calling yourself one. That IS what you've told us.


No, that is NOT what I told you. You are lying again.


I noticed you SNIPPED much of the post I wrote for you... HERE IT IS
AGAIN:


And what "points" were made in the section of the quoted text above?
I was commenting on your self-labeling of "pastor". What accusations
did I make? When you go to church, does your Pastor refer to you as
"Pastor Dave" or just dave? Does your Pastor even know you call
yourself a 'pastor'?

DO TELL US... I'm willing to bet that your PASTOR doesn't even know
that you call yourself a 'pastor', does he? I definately bet he
wouldn't concider you a PEER.


James, Seattle


True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the day he gets off his fat
chuff, goes down to the local university and takes a course in theology
- yes, one can go to a regular, run of the mill state university and
study that subject. The day he has studied the subject he is to advise
people in, then I'll be quite happy to call him a Pastor.


Another accusation. Care to back it up? Or are you
like James, who makes accusations and then runs away?


I make no accusation, I make a statement of fact.


Then prove it.


Please, Where is your Bachelor of Theology? care to scan a copy and
place it on a website for all to see? how about a student ID number
from the university you went to? come on, you've given yourself a title
of Paster, now back it up.


I see, so you make an accusation against me and when
you are asked to prove your accusation, your idea of
proof is to demand that I prove my title. Gotcha.

Dishonesty meter: [......___..]


If you were to call yourself doctor David, I would be wanting to know
what area did you earn your doctorate in.


Maybe so, but you wouldn't be seeking to ridicule me
because of being a doctor.

Where am I ridiculing you? I am askling a perfectly valid question. By
calling yourself a "Pastor" you are declaring that you have had the
appropriate training and education to call yourself a Pastor. As an
individual I am probing into your education and background asking for
verification to back up that title just as you would for me if I were
to call myself Doctor Matty.
It would be perfectly valid to ask me on what grounds have I earned the
title Doctor and just the same reasoning, it is perfectly valid for me
to ask what have you done as to earn the title of Pastor.
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
.
User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 15 Nov 2004 02:08:16 PM
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:57:12 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au>
pontificated:

On 2004-11-15 23:52:20 +1100, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> said:

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:00:16 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au>
pontificated:

On 2004-11-15 00:31:40 +1100, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> said:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:02:57 +1100, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au>
yodeled:

On 2004-11-12 13:22:56 +1100, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> said:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:44:26 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:24:59 -0800, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> yodeled:


You became a "pastor" because you wanted to parade the title
around and show off how SMART you are.

According to YOU, all it takes to become a pastor is to
decide to start calling yourself one. Of course, you say you
had 'a calling', but that's just a code word for "I decided
to become a pastor one day".

By YOUR criteria, I could start calling myself a pastor today
because my inner voice told me to.


I see that to you, insults are a way of life. Typical
for your kind. When you cannot refute the points made,
attack the person and make all of the accusations you
want against them, but don't worry about proving any of
them.


Where did I insult you? I said you decided to become a pastor
so one day you started calling yourself one. That IS what
you've told us.


No, that is NOT what I told you. You are lying again.


I noticed you SNIPPED much of the post I wrote for you... HERE
IT IS AGAIN:


And what "points" were made in the section of the quoted text
above? I was commenting on your self-labeling of "pastor". What
accusations did I make? When you go to church, does your Pastor
refer to you as "Pastor Dave" or just dave? Does your Pastor
even know you call yourself a 'pastor'?

DO TELL US... I'm willing to bet that your PASTOR doesn't even
know that you call yourself a 'pastor', does he? I definately
bet he wouldn't concider you a PEER.


James, Seattle


True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the day he gets off his fat
chuff, goes down to the local university and takes a course in
theology - yes, one can go to a regular, run of the mill state
university and study that subject. The day he has studied the
subject he is to advise people in, then I'll be quite happy to
call him a Pastor.


Another accusation. Care to back it up? Or are you
like James, who makes accusations and then runs away?


I make no accusation, I make a statement of fact.


Then prove it.


Please, Where is your Bachelor of Theology? care to scan a copy and
place it on a website for all to see? how about a student ID number
from the university you went to? come on, you've given yourself a
title of Paster, now back it up.


I see, so you make an accusation against me and when
you are asked to prove your accusation, your idea of
proof is to demand that I prove my title. Gotcha.

Dishonesty meter: [......___..]


If you were to call yourself doctor David, I would be wanting to
know what area did you earn your doctorate in.


Maybe so, but you wouldn't be seeking to ridicule me
because of being a doctor.


Where am I ridiculing you?

Matty: "I would consider Dave a pastor, the day he
gets off his fat chuff, goes down to the local
university and takes a course in theology."
You accused me of not having studied and of being a
fake. And claimed it was a statement of fact.
Matty: "I make no accusation, I make a statement of
fact."
Now, as I requested, do you care to back up your
accusation, or run like James did and pretend that you
haven't accused me and that you haven't attempted to
ridicule me? I can take ridicule since Bush won for Jesus!
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
.

User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 15 Nov 2004 01:26:24 PM
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:57:12 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au>
pontificated:

On 2004-11-15 23:52:20 +1100, Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> said:

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:00:16 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au>
pontificated:

On 2004-11-15 00:31:40 +1100, Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> said:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:02:57 +1100, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au>
yodeled:

On 2004-11-12 13:22:56 +1100, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> said:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:44:26 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:24:59 -0800, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> yodeled:


You became a "pastor" because you wanted to parade the title around
and show off how SMART you are.

According to YOU, all it takes to become a pastor is to decide to
start calling yourself one. Of course, you say you had 'a calling',
but that's just a code word for "I decided to become a pastor one
day".

By YOUR criteria, I could start calling myself a pastor today because
my inner voice told me to.


I see that to you, insults are a way of life. Typical
for your kind. When you cannot refute the points made,
attack the person and make all of the accusations you
want against them, but don't worry about proving any of
them.


Where did I insult you? I said you decided to become a pastor so one
day you started calling yourself one. That IS what you've told us.


No, that is NOT what I told you. You are lying again.


I noticed you SNIPPED much of the post I wrote for you... HERE IT IS
AGAIN:


And what "points" were made in the section of the quoted text above?
I was commenting on your self-labeling of "pastor". What accusations
did I make? When you go to church, does your Pastor refer to you as
"Pastor Dave" or just dave? Does your Pastor even know you call
yourself a 'pastor'?

DO TELL US... I'm willing to bet that your PASTOR doesn't even know
that you call yourself a 'pastor', does he? I definately bet he
wouldn't concider you a PEER.


James, Seattle


True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the day he gets off his fat
chuff, goes down to the local university and takes a course in theology
- yes, one can go to a regular, run of the mill state university and
study that subject. The day he has studied the subject he is to advise
people in, then I'll be quite happy to call him a Pastor.


Another accusation. Care to back it up? Or are you
like James, who makes accusations and then runs away?


I make no accusation, I make a statement of fact.


Then prove it.


Please, Where is your Bachelor of Theology? care to scan a copy and
place it on a website for all to see? how about a student ID number
from the university you went to? come on, you've given yourself a title
of Paster, now back it up.


I see, so you make an accusation against me and when
you are asked to prove your accusation, your idea of
proof is to demand that I prove my title. Gotcha.

Dishonesty meter: [......___..]


If you were to call yourself doctor David, I would be wanting to know
what area did you earn your doctorate in.


Maybe so, but you wouldn't be seeking to ridicule me
because of being a doctor.


Where am I ridiculing you?

Matty: "I would consider Dave a pastor, the day he
gets off his fat chuff, goes down to the local
university and takes a course in theology."
You accused me of not having studied and of being a
fake. And claimed it was a statement of fact.
Matty: "I make no accusation, I make a statement of
fact."
Now, as I requested, do you care to back up your
accusation, or run like James did and pretend that you
haven't accused me and that you haven't attempted to
ridicule me?
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.



User: "RainLover"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 15 Nov 2004 02:47:16 PM
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:31:40 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:

I noticed you SNIPPED much of the post I wrote for you... HERE IT IS
AGAIN:


And what "points" were made in the section of the quoted text above?
I was commenting on your self-labeling of "pastor". What accusations
did I make? When you go to church, does your Pastor refer to you as
"Pastor Dave" or just dave? Does your Pastor even know you call
yourself a 'pastor'?

DO TELL US... I'm willing to bet that your PASTOR doesn't even know
that you call yourself a 'pastor', does he? I definately bet he
wouldn't concider you a PEER.


James, Seattle


True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the day he gets off his fat
chuff, goes down to the local university and takes a course in theology
- yes, one can go to a regular, run of the mill state university and
study that subject. The day he has studied the subject he is to advise
people in, then I'll be quite happy to call him a Pastor.


Another accusation. Care to back it up? Or are you
like James, who makes accusations and then runs away?

Why make everyone else look through all your posts... just correct us
by telling us where you went to school to become a "pastor".
james, Seattle
.
User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 15 Nov 2004 03:15:05 PM
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:47:16 -0800, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> pontificated:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:31:40 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:

I noticed you SNIPPED much of the post I wrote for you... HERE IT IS
AGAIN:


And what "points" were made in the section of the quoted text above?
I was commenting on your self-labeling of "pastor". What accusations
did I make? When you go to church, does your Pastor refer to you as
"Pastor Dave" or just dave? Does your Pastor even know you call
yourself a 'pastor'?

DO TELL US... I'm willing to bet that your PASTOR doesn't even know
that you call yourself a 'pastor', does he? I definately bet he
wouldn't concider you a PEER.


James, Seattle


True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the day he gets off his fat
chuff, goes down to the local university and takes a course in theology
- yes, one can go to a regular, run of the mill state university and
study that subject. The day he has studied the subject he is to advise
people in, then I'll be quite happy to call him a Pastor.


Another accusation. Care to back it up? Or are you
like James, who makes accusations and then runs away?


Why make everyone else look through all your posts... just correct us
by telling us where you went to school to become a "pastor".

james, Seattle

Once again, James dodges the challenge to back up his
claims. He is dishonest.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
User: "Reverend Erik"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 16 Nov 2004 02:27:19 AM
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<r17ip0puq2f4i8f72sfuhk7cakq61t9377@4ax.com>...

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:47:16 -0800, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> pontificated:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:31:40 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:

I noticed you SNIPPED much of the post I wrote for you... HERE IT IS
AGAIN:


And what "points" were made in the section of the quoted text above?
I was commenting on your self-labeling of "pastor". What accusations
did I make? When you go to church, does your Pastor refer to you as
"Pastor Dave" or just dave? Does your Pastor even know you call
yourself a 'pastor'?

DO TELL US... I'm willing to bet that your PASTOR doesn't even know
that you call yourself a 'pastor', does he? I definately bet he
wouldn't concider you a PEER.


James, Seattle


True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the day he gets off his fat
chuff, goes down to the local university and takes a course in theology
- yes, one can go to a regular, run of the mill state university and
study that subject. The day he has studied the subject he is to advise
people in, then I'll be quite happy to call him a Pastor.


Another accusation. Care to back it up? Or are you
like James, who makes accusations and then runs away?


Why make everyone else look through all your posts... just correct us
by telling us where you went to school to become a "pastor".

james, Seattle


Once again, James dodges the challenge to back up his
claims. He is dishonest.

Well, if I may ask politely, from one man of the cloth to another,
where did you recieve your degree in theology from? Or, if it was not
required by your church, which church were you ordained by? I would
be fully willing to share the same information regarding my ordination
as a minister if you wish.
I'm just tired of watching this debate go back and forth.
Thank you,
Reverend Erik
Seattle, WA
.
User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 16 Nov 2004 08:57:16 AM
On 16 Nov 2004 00:27:19 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest,
(Reverend Erik)
pontificated:

Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<r17ip0puq2f4i8f72sfuhk7cakq61t9377@4ax.com>...

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:47:16 -0800, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> pontificated:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:31:40 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:

I noticed you SNIPPED much of the post I wrote for you... HERE
IT IS AGAIN:


And what "points" were made in the section of the quoted text
above? I was commenting on your self-labeling of "pastor". What
accusations did I make? When you go to church, does your Pastor
refer to you as "Pastor Dave" or just dave? Does your Pastor
even know you call yourself a 'pastor'?

DO TELL US... I'm willing to bet that your PASTOR doesn't even
know that you call yourself a 'pastor', does he? I definately
bet he wouldn't concider you a PEER.


James, Seattle


True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the day he gets off his fat
chuff, goes down to the local university and takes a course in
theology - yes, one can go to a regular, run of the mill state
university and study that subject. The day he has studied the
subject he is to advise people in, then I'll be quite happy to
call him a Pastor.


Another accusation. Care to back it up? Or are you
like James, who makes accusations and then runs away?


Why make everyone else look through all your posts... just correct
us by telling us where you went to school to become a "pastor".

james, Seattle


Once again, James dodges the challenge to back up his
claims. He is dishonest.


Well, if I may ask politely, from one man of the cloth to another,
where did you recieve your degree in theology from? Or, if it was not
required by your church, which church were you ordained by? I would
be fully willing to share the same information regarding my ordination
as a minister if you wish.
I'm just tired of watching this debate go back and forth.

Understand that there's people in these groups who hate
me and so I don't give information like that out
anymore. I did once a few years ago and they got a
bunch of calls, many of which were not very pleasant.
They called me and asked me never to do that again.
These guys already know that. They just like to make
accusations that they know they can't back up, because
I've already told them this. Note that James claims
that I said that I had no schooling and just started
calling myself a pastor. Of course, he cannot quote me
saying that. Besides, I have nothing to prove to
anyone here which is why I always ask others to prove their point.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
.
User: "Mary J"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 16 Nov 2004 02:52:06 PM
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com>
wrote in message
news:Xns95A35B170DF4Dpastordave38nospamya@130.133.1.4...
| On 16 Nov 2004 00:27:19 -0800, while scaling the
Mt.
| Everest,
(Reverend Erik)
| pontificated:
|
| >Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com>
wrote in message
|

news:<r17ip0puq2f4i8f72sfuhk7cakq61t9377@4ax.com>

....
| >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:47:16 -0800, while
scaling the
| >> Mt. Everest, RainLover
| >> <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com>
pontificated:
| >>
| >> >On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:31:40 GMT, Pastor
Dave
| >> ><pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
| >> >
| >> >>>> I noticed you SNIPPED much of the post I
wrote for you... HERE
| >> >>>> IT IS AGAIN:
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>> And what "points" were made in the
section of the quoted text
| >> >>>> above? I was commenting on your
self-labeling of "pastor". What
| >> >>>> accusations did I make? When you go to
church, does your Pastor
| >> >>>> refer to you as "Pastor Dave" or just
dave? Does your Pastor
| >> >>>> even know you call yourself a 'pastor'?
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>> DO TELL US... I'm willing to bet that
your PASTOR doesn't even
| >> >>>> know that you call yourself a 'pastor',
does he? I definately
| >> >>>> bet he wouldn't concider you a PEER.
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>> James, Seattle
| >> >>>
| >> >>>True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the
day he gets off his fat
| >> >>>chuff, goes down to the local university
and takes a course in
| >> >>>theology - yes, one can go to a regular,
run of the mill state
| >> >>>university and study that subject. The day
he has studied the
| >> >>>subject he is to advise people in, then
I'll be quite happy to
| >> >>>call him a Pastor.
| >> >>
| >> >>Another accusation. Care to back it up?
Or are you
| >> >>like James, who makes accusations and then
runs away?
| >> >
| >> >Why make everyone else look through all your
posts... just correct
| >> >us by telling us where you went to school to
become a "pastor".
| >> >
| >> >james, Seattle
| >>
| >> Once again, James dodges the challenge to
back up his
| >> claims. He is dishonest.
| >
| >Well, if I may ask politely, from one man of
the cloth to another,
| >where did you recieve your degree in theology
from? Or, if it was not
| >required by your church, which church were you
ordained by? I would
| >be fully willing to share the same information
regarding my ordination
| >as a minister if you wish.
| >I'm just tired of watching this debate go back
and forth.
|
| Understand that there's people in these groups
who hate
| me and so I don't give information like that out
| anymore. I did once a few years ago and they
got a
| bunch of calls, many of which were not very
pleasant.
| They called me and asked me never to do that
again.
| These guys already know that. They just like to
make
| accusations that they know they can't back up,
because
| I've already told them this. Note that James
claims
| that I said that I had no schooling and just
started
| calling myself a pastor. Of course, he cannot
quote me
| saying that. Besides, I have nothing to prove
to
| anyone here which is why I always ask others to
prove their point.
|
|
|
You know what Dave? I really don't think it
matters to anyone here but the few who have been
badgering you in every post I have seen you
address so far. I may not agree with everything
you say, and you may not agree with me. But the
thing is, mature adults can calmly agree to
disagree without the childish games.
|
| --
|
| Pastor Dave Raymond
|
| "I have more understanding than all my teachers:
| for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm
119:99
|
| /
|
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::>
| \
|
.
User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 17 Nov 2004 08:15:31 AM
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:52:06 -0600, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Mary J" <maryj4703@hotmail.com>
pontificated:


"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com>
wrote in message
news:Xns95A35B170DF4Dpastordave38nospamya@130.133.1.4...
| On 16 Nov 2004 00:27:19 -0800, while scaling the
Mt.
| Everest,

(Reverend Erik)
| pontificated:
|
| >Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com>
wrote in message
|

news:<r17ip0puq2f4i8f72sfuhk7cakq61t9377@4ax.com>

...
| >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:47:16 -0800, while
scaling the
| >> Mt. Everest, RainLover
| >> <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com>
pontificated:
| >>
| >> >On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:31:40 GMT, Pastor
Dave
| >> ><pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
| >> >
| >> >>>> I noticed you SNIPPED much of the post I
wrote for you... HERE
| >> >>>> IT IS AGAIN:
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>> And what "points" were made in the
section of the quoted text
| >> >>>> above? I was commenting on your
self-labeling of "pastor". What
| >> >>>> accusations did I make? When you go to
church, does your Pastor
| >> >>>> refer to you as "Pastor Dave" or just
dave? Does your Pastor
| >> >>>> even know you call yourself a 'pastor'?
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>> DO TELL US... I'm willing to bet that
your PASTOR doesn't even
| >> >>>> know that you call yourself a 'pastor',
does he? I definately
| >> >>>> bet he wouldn't concider you a PEER.
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>> James, Seattle
| >> >>>
| >> >>>True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the
day he gets off his fat
| >> >>>chuff, goes down to the local university
and takes a course in
| >> >>>theology - yes, one can go to a regular,
run of the mill state
| >> >>>university and study that subject. The day
he has studied the
| >> >>>subject he is to advise people in, then
I'll be quite happy to
| >> >>>call him a Pastor.
| >> >>
| >> >>Another accusation. Care to back it up?
Or are you
| >> >>like James, who makes accusations and then
runs away?
| >> >
| >> >Why make everyone else look through all your
posts... just correct
| >> >us by telling us where you went to school to
become a "pastor".
| >> >
| >> >james, Seattle
| >>
| >> Once again, James dodges the challenge to
back up his
| >> claims. He is dishonest.
| >
| >Well, if I may ask politely, from one man of
the cloth to another,
| >where did you recieve your degree in theology
from? Or, if it was not
| >required by your church, which church were you
ordained by? I would
| >be fully willing to share the same information
regarding my ordination
| >as a minister if you wish.
| >I'm just tired of watching this debate go back
and forth.
|
| Understand that there's people in these groups
who hate
| me and so I don't give information like that out
| anymore. I did once a few years ago and they
got a
| bunch of calls, many of which were not very
pleasant.
| They called me and asked me never to do that
again.
| These guys already know that. They just like to
make
| accusations that they know they can't back up,
because
| I've already told them this. Note that James
claims
| that I said that I had no schooling and just
started
| calling myself a pastor. Of course, he cannot
quote me
| saying that. Besides, I have nothing to prove
to
| anyone here which is why I always ask others to
prove their point.
|
|
|
You know what Dave? I really don't think it
matters to anyone here but the few who have been
badgering you in every post I have seen you
address so far. I may not agree with everything
you say, and you may not agree with me. But the
thing is, mature adults can calmly agree to
disagree without the childish games.

I agree. The only reason I kept responding, was to
watch them dig themselves further into a hole.
James said the following to me:
"According to YOU, all it takes to become a pastor is
to decide to start calling yourself one."
"I was commenting on your self-labeling of "pastor""
"You said that you had a "calling" to become a
"pastor", so started calling yourself a pastor."
"You never went to school to become a pastor"
Matty said:
"True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the day he gets
off his fat chuff, goes down to the local university
and takes a course in theology - yes, one can go to a
regular, run of the mill state university and study
that subject. The day he has studied the subject he is
to advise people in, then I'll be quite happy to call
him a Pastor."
I have asked them repeatedly that they back up their
claims about what I said and to quote me saying what
they claim I said, or have the integrity to retract
them. They have not done either and so, it is very
telling about the level of honesty they exhibit, or
should I say, "the lack of honesty they display". They
love to keep trying to change the subject and then
claim that I refuse to answer their questions. The
truth is, I ignore their misdirection and stay true to
the their original claims.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
User: "Matty"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 17 Nov 2004 08:52:00 AM
On 2004-11-18 01:15:31 +1100, Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> said:

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:52:06 -0600, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Mary J" <maryj4703@hotmail.com>
pontificated:


"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com>
wrote in message
news:Xns95A35B170DF4Dpastordave38nospamya@130.133.1.4...
| On 16 Nov 2004 00:27:19 -0800, while scaling the
Mt.
| Everest,

(Reverend Erik)
| pontificated:
|
| >Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com>
wrote in message
|

news:<r17ip0puq2f4i8f72sfuhk7cakq61t9377@4ax.com>

...
| >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:47:16 -0800, while
scaling the
| >> Mt. Everest, RainLover
| >> <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com>
pontificated:
| >>
| >> >On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:31:40 GMT, Pastor
Dave
| >> ><pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
| >> >
| >> >>>> I noticed you SNIPPED much of the post I
wrote for you... HERE
| >> >>>> IT IS AGAIN:
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>> And what "points" were made in the
section of the quoted text
| >> >>>> above? I was commenting on your
self-labeling of "pastor". What
| >> >>>> accusations did I make? When you go to
church, does your Pastor
| >> >>>> refer to you as "Pastor Dave" or just
dave? Does your Pastor
| >> >>>> even know you call yourself a 'pastor'?
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>> DO TELL US... I'm willing to bet that
your PASTOR doesn't even
| >> >>>> know that you call yourself a 'pastor',
does he? I definately
| >> >>>> bet he wouldn't concider you a PEER.
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>> James, Seattle
| >> >>>
| >> >>>True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the
day he gets off his fat
| >> >>>chuff, goes down to the local university
and takes a course in
| >> >>>theology - yes, one can go to a regular,
run of the mill state
| >> >>>university and study that subject. The day
he has studied the
| >> >>>subject he is to advise people in, then
I'll be quite happy to
| >> >>>call him a Pastor.
| >> >>
| >> >>Another accusation. Care to back it up?
Or are you
| >> >>like James, who makes accusations and then
runs away?
| >> >
| >> >Why make everyone else look through all your
posts... just correct
| >> >us by telling us where you went to school to
become a "pastor".
| >> >
| >> >james, Seattle
| >>
| >> Once again, James dodges the challenge to
back up his
| >> claims. He is dishonest.
| >
| >Well, if I may ask politely, from one man of
the cloth to another,
| >where did you recieve your degree in theology
from? Or, if it was not
| >required by your church, which church were you
ordained by? I would
| >be fully willing to share the same information
regarding my ordination
| >as a minister if you wish.
| >I'm just tired of watching this debate go back
and forth.
|
| Understand that there's people in these groups
who hate
| me and so I don't give information like that out
| anymore. I did once a few years ago and they
got a
| bunch of calls, many of which were not very
pleasant.
| They called me and asked me never to do that
again.
| These guys already know that. They just like to
make
| accusations that they know they can't back up,
because
| I've already told them this. Note that James
claims
| that I said that I had no schooling and just
started
| calling myself a pastor. Of course, he cannot
quote me
| saying that. Besides, I have nothing to prove
to
| anyone here which is why I always ask others to
prove their point.
|
|
|
You know what Dave? I really don't think it
matters to anyone here but the few who have been
badgering you in every post I have seen you
address so far. I may not agree with everything
you say, and you may not agree with me. But the
thing is, mature adults can calmly agree to
disagree without the childish games.


I agree. The only reason I kept responding, was to
watch them dig themselves further into a hole.

James said the following to me:

"According to YOU, all it takes to become a pastor is
to decide to start calling yourself one."

"I was commenting on your self-labeling of "pastor""

"You said that you had a "calling" to become a
"pastor", so started calling yourself a pastor."

"You never went to school to become a pastor"


Matty said:

"True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the day he gets
off his fat chuff, goes down to the local university
and takes a course in theology - yes, one can go to a
regular, run of the mill state university and study
that subject. The day he has studied the subject he is
to advise people in, then I'll be quite happy to call
him a Pastor."


I have asked them repeatedly that they back up their
claims about what I said and to quote me saying what
they claim I said, or have the integrity to retract
them. They have not done either and so, it is very
telling about the level of honesty they exhibit, or
should I say, "the lack of honesty they display". They
love to keep trying to change the subject and then
claim that I refuse to answer their questions. The
truth is, I ignore their misdirection and stay true to
the their original claims.

You call yourself a pastor, there for you have implicitly saying that
you received education and training to thus be able to have such a
title. All I am now requesting is proof that you are who you claim you
are.
Just as I said, if I were to call myself a doctor, you would want to
know in what field, and provide evidence to prove that I was a doctor
in that particular field of expertise.
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
.
User: "Mary J"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 17 Nov 2004 09:44:46 AM
"Matty" <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3016siF2qja1cU8@uni-berlin.de...
| On 2004-11-18 01:15:31 +1100, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> said:
|
| > On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:52:06 -0600, while
scaling the
| > Mt. Everest, "Mary J" <maryj4703@hotmail.com>
| > pontificated:
| >
| >>
| >> "Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com>
| >> wrote in message
| >>
news:Xns95A35B170DF4Dpastordave38nospamya@130.133.1.4...
| >> | On 16 Nov 2004 00:27:19 -0800, while
scaling the
| >> Mt.
| >> | Everest,
(Reverend Erik)
| >> | pontificated:
| >> |
| >> | >Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com>
| >> wrote in message
| >> |
| >>>
news:<r17ip0puq2f4i8f72sfuhk7cakq61t9377@4ax.com>
| >> ...
| >> | >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:47:16 -0800,
while
| >> scaling the
| >> | >> Mt. Everest, RainLover
| >> | >> <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com>
| >> pontificated:
| >> | >>
| >> | >> >On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:31:40 GMT,
Pastor
| >> Dave
| >> | >> ><pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
| >> | >> >
| >> | >> >>>> I noticed you SNIPPED much of the
post I
| >> wrote for you... HERE
| >> | >> >>>> IT IS AGAIN:
| >> | >> >>>>
| >> | >> >>>>
| >> | >> >>>> And what "points" were made in the
| >> section of the quoted text
| >> | >> >>>> above? I was commenting on your
| >> self-labeling of "pastor". What
| >> | >> >>>> accusations did I make? When you
go to
| >> church, does your Pastor
| >> | >> >>>> refer to you as "Pastor Dave" or
just
| >> dave? Does your Pastor
| >> | >> >>>> even know you call yourself a
'pastor'?
| >> | >> >>>>
| >> | >> >>>> DO TELL US... I'm willing to bet
that
| >> your PASTOR doesn't even
| >> | >> >>>> know that you call yourself a
'pastor',
| >> does he? I definately
| >> | >> >>>> bet he wouldn't concider you a
PEER.
| >> | >> >>>>
| >> | >> >>>>
| >> | >> >>>> James, Seattle
| >> | >> >>>
| >> | >> >>>True. I would consider Dave a
pastor, the
| >> day he gets off his fat
| >> | >> >>>chuff, goes down to the local
university
| >> and takes a course in
| >> | >> >>>theology - yes, one can go to a
regular,
| >> run of the mill state
| >> | >> >>>university and study that subject.
The day
| >> he has studied the
| >> | >> >>>subject he is to advise people in,
then
| >> I'll be quite happy to
| >> | >> >>>call him a Pastor.
| >> | >> >>
| >> | >> >>Another accusation. Care to back it
up?
| >> Or are you
| >> | >> >>like James, who makes accusations and
then
| >> runs away?
| >> | >> >
| >> | >> >Why make everyone else look through all
your
| >> posts... just correct
| >> | >> >us by telling us where you went to
school to
| >> become a "pastor".
| >> | >> >
| >> | >> >james, Seattle
| >> | >>
| >> | >> Once again, James dodges the challenge
to
| >> back up his
| >> | >> claims. He is dishonest.
| >> | >
| >> | >Well, if I may ask politely, from one man
of
| >> the cloth to another,
| >> | >where did you recieve your degree in
theology
| >> from? Or, if it was not
| >> | >required by your church, which church were
you
| >> ordained by? I would
| >> | >be fully willing to share the same
information
| >> regarding my ordination
| >> | >as a minister if you wish.
| >> | >I'm just tired of watching this debate go
back
| >> and forth.
| >> |
| >> | Understand that there's people in these
groups
| >> who hate
| >> | me and so I don't give information like
that out
| >> | anymore. I did once a few years ago and
they
| >> got a
| >> | bunch of calls, many of which were not very
| >> pleasant.
| >> | They called me and asked me never to do
that
| >> again.
| >> | These guys already know that. They just
like to
| >> make
| >> | accusations that they know they can't back
up,
| >> because
| >> | I've already told them this. Note that
James
| >> claims
| >> | that I said that I had no schooling and
just
| >> started
| >> | calling myself a pastor. Of course, he
cannot
| >> quote me
| >> | saying that. Besides, I have nothing to
prove
| >> to
| >> | anyone here which is why I always ask
others to
| >> prove their point.
| >> |
| >> |
| >> |
| >> You know what Dave? I really don't think it
| >> matters to anyone here but the few who have
been
| >> badgering you in every post I have seen you
| >> address so far. I may not agree with
everything
| >> you say, and you may not agree with me. But
the
| >> thing is, mature adults can calmly agree to
| >> disagree without the childish games.
| >
| > I agree. The only reason I kept responding,
was to
| > watch them dig themselves further into a hole.
| >
| > James said the following to me:
| >
| > "According to YOU, all it takes to become a
pastor is
| > to decide to start calling yourself one."
| >
| > "I was commenting on your self-labeling of
"pastor""
| >
| > "You said that you had a "calling" to become a
| > "pastor", so started calling yourself a
pastor."
| >
| > "You never went to school to become a pastor"
| >
| >
| > Matty said:
| >
| > "True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the
day he gets
| > off his fat chuff, goes down to the local
university
| > and takes a course in theology - yes, one can
go to a
| > regular, run of the mill state university and
study
| > that subject. The day he has studied the
subject he is
| > to advise people in, then I'll be quite happy
to call
| > him a Pastor."
| >
| >
| > I have asked them repeatedly that they back up
their
| > claims about what I said and to quote me
saying what
| > they claim I said, or have the integrity to
retract
| > them. They have not done either and so, it is
very
| > telling about the level of honesty they
exhibit, or
| > should I say, "the lack of honesty they
display". They
| > love to keep trying to change the subject and
then
| > claim that I refuse to answer their questions.
The
| > truth is, I ignore their misdirection and stay
true to
| > the their original claims.
|
| You call yourself a pastor, there for you have
implicitly saying that
| you received education and training to thus be
able to have such a
| title. All I am now requesting is proof that you
are who you claim you
| are.
|
| Just as I said, if I were to call myself a
doctor, you would want to
| know in what field, and provide evidence to
prove that I was a doctor
| in that particular field of expertise.
|
| Matty
| --
| "If a nation could not prosper without the
enjoyment of perfect liberty
| and perfect justice, there is not in the world a
nation which could
| ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations,
Book IV, Chapter IX
|
| "Many forms of Government have been tried, and
will be tried in this
| world of sin and woe. No one pretends that
democracy is perfect or
| all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that
democracy is the worst form of
| government except all those other forms that
have been tried from time
| to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard,
November 11, 1947
|
Matty,
No offence, really. But I see a lot of 'prove it'
posts from darn near every PC poster in here. Why
does he have to prove to you what he does for a
living, or in his spare time? It really makes no
difference at all and has nothing to do with
anything in this forum. It seems like a terrible
waste of energy on your part and his to continue
the quest for proof.
He stated ( and I think his reason has merit) that
he did post his credentials at one time. It seems
everyone called this place and he was 'slapped in
the wrist' for giving this information out and
asked not to do so again. It makes sense. But
regardless.. it really has no impact on anything.
His being an educated pastor or a self-proclaimed
pastor. It wont change anything. Credibility is
really a personal issue, and won't make any
difference to those who like Dave. Its a waste of
your time, I think.
Now that I have tossed my nose into this and said
what I wanted to say.. it's your choice to
continue or to move on.
.
User: "No One"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 17 Nov 2004 11:04:28 AM
"Mary J" <maryj4703@hotmail.com> writes:

He stated ( and I think his reason has merit) that he did post his
credentials at one time. It seems everyone called this place and he
was 'slapped in the wrist' for giving this information out and asked
not to do so again.

Then "Pastor Dave" could just post the URL for that previous message,
if it is there. Anyone out to get him could find it with enough work,
and would have the motivation to do that, so posting the URL for the
benefit of the rest of us hardly hurts him.
.
User: "Mary J"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 17 Nov 2004 11:49:04 AM
"No One" <noone@nospam.pacbell.net> wrote in
message news:m3k6sk1k9n.fsf@nospam.pacbell.net...
| "Mary J" <maryj4703@hotmail.com> writes:
|
| > He stated ( and I think his reason has merit)
that he did post his
| > credentials at one time. It seems everyone
called this place and he
| > was 'slapped in the wrist' for giving this
information out and asked
| > not to do so again.
|
| Then "Pastor Dave" could just post the URL for
that previous message,
| if it is there. Anyone out to get him could
find it with enough work,
| and would have the motivation to do that, so
posting the URL for the
| benefit of the rest of us hardly hurts him.
But, posting the URL to the post that has that
info is essentially the same as posting the info
again.
Its not my case, and it really affects me in no
way no matter how you all decide to go with it. I
just thought maybe a little intervention may calm
things a bit. If he was asked not to do it again,
he probably won't.
Maybe one of you can do the search if it is that
important.
I know if I asked someone not to post my
information on a worldwide newsgroup, and they did
again, there may be a legal recourse available to
me.
.
User: "No One"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 17 Nov 2004 09:22:54 PM
"Mary J" <maryj4703@hotmail.com> writes:

"No One" <noone@nospam.pacbell.net> wrote in
message news:m3k6sk1k9n.fsf@nospam.pacbell.net...
| "Mary J" <maryj4703@hotmail.com> writes:
|
But, posting the URL to the post that has that
info is essentially the same as posting the info
again.

It's there for anyone to find (and very easy to do.)
I posted the information separately, although he
seemed to have attended some place, with no indication
of having actually graduated in any message I could
find. There are about 100 to go through if you really
want to look. Do an advanced search for an author of
Pastor Dave" and the word "seminary". If you try
"seminary" and "graduated" you find nothing useful.
.


User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 17 Nov 2004 11:57:07 AM
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:04:28 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, No One <noone@nospam.pacbell.net>
pontificated:

"Mary J" <maryj4703@hotmail.com> writes:

He stated ( and I think his reason has merit) that he did post his
credentials at one time. It seems everyone called this place and he
was 'slapped in the wrist' for giving this information out and asked
not to do so again.


Then "Pastor Dave" could just post the URL for that previous message,
if it is there. Anyone out to get him could find it with enough work,
and would have the motivation to do that, so posting the URL for the
benefit of the rest of us hardly hurts him.

And thereby start the same process again and get
another phone call.
The fact is, that these people should have backed up
their claim of what they stated that *I* said, when *I*
did not say any of it. But of course, you ignore that.
James said the following to me:
"According to YOU, all it takes to become a pastor is
to decide to start calling yourself one."
"I was commenting on your self-labeling of "pastor""
"You said that you had a "calling" to become a
"pastor", so started calling yourself a pastor."
"You never went to school to become a pastor"
Matty said:
"True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the day he gets
off his fat chuff, goes down to the local university
and takes a course in theology - yes, one can go to a
regular, run of the mill state university and study
that subject. The day he has studied the subject he is
to advise people in, then I'll be quite happy to call
him a Pastor."
I have asked them repeatedly that they back up their
claims about what I said and to quote me saying what
they claim I said, or have the integrity to retract
them. They have not done either and so, it is very
telling about the level of honesty they exhibit, or
should I say, "the lack of honesty they display". They
love to keep trying to change the subject and then
claim that I refuse to answer their questions. The
truth is, I ignore their misdirection and stay true to
their original claims.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
User: "No One"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 17 Nov 2004 09:20:18 PM
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> writes:

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:04:28 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, No One <noone@nospam.pacbell.net>
pontificated:

"Mary J" <maryj4703@hotmail.com> writes:

He stated ( and I think his reason has merit) that he did post his
credentials at one time. It seems everyone called this place and he
was 'slapped in the wrist' for giving this information out and asked
not to do so again.


Then "Pastor Dave" could just post the URL for that previous message,
if it is there. Anyone out to get him could find it with enough work,
and would have the motivation to do that, so posting the URL for the
benefit of the rest of us hardly hurts him.


And thereby start the same process again and get
another phone call.

In
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=001d01c279d2%24d3aeb350%240000a398%40computername&output=gplain>
you claimed to enter a seminary in 1999, and claim to be in your 50s,
so you entered it (if you did) way later than most. In that post, you
said, "The main thing that has helped me to date is my conversion to
Christianity and enrollment in seminary in 1999. Faith has grounded
and motivated me to continue with this struggle."
On May 18, 2000, in
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=k417iss906at9ndogafkt0vjq4h3a5r3j6%404ax.com&output=gplain>
you wrote, "2) I am a legally ordained minister, who has been studying
the word of God through college level courses in Biblical studies, as
well as the history of the times, since 1982. I am currently going
for my Masters in Biblical Studies, at the International Bible College
and Seminary. I may go for "Doctor of Divinity" after that."
In fact, your first post could be parsed to mean that you became a
Christian in 1999, which the second post contradicts. It also claims
some sort of medical problem, and you state, "I can't work but am
using distance learning and residential courses to get a masters
degree in pastoral counseling. But this is comical too as it takes me
8 months to finish a 4 month course and I've probably dropped out of
as many courses as I've completed so far."

The fact is, that these people should have backed up their claim of
what they stated that *I* said, when *I* did not say any of it. But
of course, you ignore that.

What you yourself claimed (see the above two posts I referenced) does
not even indicate that you successfully completed whatever mail order(?)
course you enrolled in.
Using google, I couldn't find any statement in which you claimed to
have actually graduated.
Oh, and <http://www.ibcsnet.com/> is the web site of the
"International Bible College and Seminary." They give a street
address in Independence Missouri at the bottom of an application
form. There are no maps or pictures of a campus. It sounds like
a "study by mail" outlet. Maybe someone has more details or can
correct any confusion on my part regarding that.
.
User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 18 Nov 2004 06:43:34 AM
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 03:20:18 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, No One <noone@nospam.pacbell.net>
pontificated:

Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> writes:

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:04:28 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, No One <noone@nospam.pacbell.net>
pontificated:

"Mary J" <maryj4703@hotmail.com> writes:

He stated ( and I think his reason has merit) that he did post his
credentials at one time. It seems everyone called this place and he
was 'slapped in the wrist' for giving this information out and asked
not to do so again.


Then "Pastor Dave" could just post the URL for that previous message,
if it is there. Anyone out to get him could find it with enough work,
and would have the motivation to do that, so posting the URL for the
benefit of the rest of us hardly hurts him.


And thereby start the same process again and get
another phone call.



In
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=001d01c279d2%24d3aeb350%240000a398%40computername&output=gplain>
you claimed to enter a seminary in 1999, and claim to be in your 50s,
so you entered it (if you did) way later than most. In that post, you
said, "The main thing that has helped me to date is my conversion to
Christianity and enrollment in seminary in 1999. Faith has grounded
and motivated me to continue with this struggle."

On May 18, 2000, in
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=k417iss906at9ndogafkt0vjq4h3a5r3j6%404ax.com&output=gplain>
you wrote, "2) I am a legally ordained minister, who has been studying
the word of God through college level courses in Biblical studies, as
well as the history of the times, since 1982. I am currently going
for my Masters in Biblical Studies, at the International Bible College
and Seminary. I may go for "Doctor of Divinity" after that."

In fact, your first post could be parsed to mean that you became a
Christian in 1999, which the second post contradicts. It also claims
some sort of medical problem, and you state, "I can't work but am
using distance learning and residential courses to get a masters
degree in pastoral counseling. But this is comical too as it takes me
8 months to finish a 4 month course and I've probably dropped out of
as many courses as I've completed so far."

The fact is, that these people should have backed up their claim of
what they stated that *I* said, when *I* did not say any of it. But
of course, you ignore that.


What you yourself claimed (see the above two posts I referenced) does
not even indicate that you successfully completed whatever mail order(?)
course you enrolled in.

FYI, over 50% of the degrees given out by major
colleges and universities, are earned through distance
learning. So don't knock it. Your attorney may have
gotten his/hers that way.

Using google, I couldn't find any statement in which you claimed to
have actually graduated.

Oh, and <http://www.ibcsnet.com/> is the web site of the
"International Bible College and Seminary." They give a street
address in Independence Missouri at the bottom of an application
form. There are no maps or pictures of a campus. It sounds like
a "study by mail" outlet. Maybe someone has more details or can
correct any confusion on my part regarding that.

You might try finding some posts written by me. The
first post isn't mine at all. I've never been to
Italy. The second post seems to be an impersonation of
me and does contain some truthful information, but not
all of it is. I never attended IBC. I did mention one
time that I was thinking about taking some courses
there and so the imposter probably latched onto that
and ran with it, figuring people would call there and
then say that I lied about having attended there. I
have had people impersonating me off and on for about 5
years. In fact, someone is currently doing that, so
not every post by Pastor Dave is from me.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.




User: "Matty"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 17 Nov 2004 08:45:39 PM
On 2004-11-18 02:44:46 +1100, "Mary J" <maryj4703@hotmail.com> said:


"Matty" <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3016siF2qja1cU8@uni-berlin.de...
| On 2004-11-18 01:15:31 +1100, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> said:
|
| > On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:52:06 -0600, while
scaling the
| > Mt. Everest, "Mary J" <maryj4703@hotmail.com>
| > pontificated:
| >
| >>
| >> "Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com>
| >> wrote in message
| >>
news:Xns95A35B170DF4Dpastordave38nospamya@130.133.1.4...
| >> | On 16 Nov 2004 00:27:19 -0800, while
scaling the
| >> Mt.
| >> | Everest,

(Reverend Erik)
| >> | pontificated:
| >> |
| >> | >Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com>
| >> wrote in message
| >> |
| >>>
news:<r17ip0puq2f4i8f72sfuhk7cakq61t9377@4ax.com>
| >> ...
| >> | >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:47:16 -0800,
while
| >> scaling the
| >> | >> Mt. Everest, RainLover
| >> | >> <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com>
| >> pontificated:
| >> | >>
| >> | >> >On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:31:40 GMT,
Pastor
| >> Dave
| >> | >> ><pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
| >> | >> >
| >> | >> >>>> I noticed you SNIPPED much of the
post I
| >> wrote for you... HERE
| >> | >> >>>> IT IS AGAIN:
| >> | >> >>>>
| >> | >> >>>>
| >> | >> >>>> And what "points" were made in the
| >> section of the quoted text
| >> | >> >>>> above? I was commenting on your
| >> self-labeling of "pastor". What
| >> | >> >>>> accusations did I make? When you
go to
| >> church, does your Pastor
| >> | >> >>>> refer to you as "Pastor Dave" or
just
| >> dave? Does your Pastor
| >> | >> >>>> even know you call yourself a
'pastor'?
| >> | >> >>>>
| >> | >> >>>> DO TELL US... I'm willing to bet
that
| >> your PASTOR doesn't even
| >> | >> >>>> know that you call yourself a
'pastor',
| >> does he? I definately
| >> | >> >>>> bet he wouldn't concider you a
PEER.
| >> | >> >>>>
| >> | >> >>>>
| >> | >> >>>> James, Seattle
| >> | >> >>>
| >> | >> >>>True. I would consider Dave a
pastor, the
| >> day he gets off his fat
| >> | >> >>>chuff, goes down to the local
university
| >> and takes a course in
| >> | >> >>>theology - yes, one can go to a
regular,
| >> run of the mill state
| >> | >> >>>university and study that subject.
The day
| >> he has studied the
| >> | >> >>>subject he is to advise people in,
then
| >> I'll be quite happy to
| >> | >> >>>call him a Pastor.
| >> | >> >>
| >> | >> >>Another accusation. Care to back it
up?
| >> Or are you
| >> | >> >>like James, who makes accusations and
then
| >> runs away?
| >> | >> >
| >> | >> >Why make everyone else look through all
your
| >> posts... just correct
| >> | >> >us by telling us where you went to
school to
| >> become a "pastor".
| >> | >> >
| >> | >> >james, Seattle
| >> | >>
| >> | >> Once again, James dodges the challenge
to
| >> back up his
| >> | >> claims. He is dishonest.
| >> | >
| >> | >Well, if I may ask politely, from one man
of
| >> the cloth to another,
| >> | >where did you recieve your degree in
theology
| >> from? Or, if it was not
| >> | >required by your church, which church were
you
| >> ordained by? I would
| >> | >be fully willing to share the same
information
| >> regarding my ordination
| >> | >as a minister if you wish.
| >> | >I'm just tired of watching this debate go
back
| >> and forth.
| >> |
| >> | Understand that there's people in these
groups
| >> who hate
| >> | me and so I don't give information like
that out
| >> | anymore. I did once a few years ago and
they
| >> got a
| >> | bunch of calls, many of which were not very
| >> pleasant.
| >> | They called me and asked me never to do
that
| >> again.
| >> | These guys already know that. They just
like to
| >> make
| >> | accusations that they know they can't back
up,
| >> because
| >> | I've already told them this. Note that
James
| >> claims
| >> | that I said that I had no schooling and
just
| >> started
| >> | calling myself a pastor. Of course, he
cannot
| >> quote me
| >> | saying that. Besides, I have nothing to
prove
| >> to
| >> | anyone here which is why I always ask
others to
| >> prove their point.
| >> |
| >> |
| >> |
| >> You know what Dave? I really don't think it
| >> matters to anyone here but the few who have
been
| >> badgering you in every post I have seen you
| >> address so far. I may not agree with
everything
| >> you say, and you may not agree with me. But
the
| >> thing is, mature adults can calmly agree to
| >> disagree without the childish games.
| >
| > I agree. The only reason I kept responding,
was to
| > watch them dig themselves further into a hole.
| >
| > James said the following to me:
| >
| > "According to YOU, all it takes to become a
pastor is
| > to decide to start calling yourself one."
| >
| > "I was commenting on your self-labeling of
"pastor""
| >
| > "You said that you had a "calling" to become a
| > "pastor", so started calling yourself a
pastor."
| >
| > "You never went to school to become a pastor"
| >
| >
| > Matty said:
| >
| > "True. I would consider Dave a pastor, the
day he gets
| > off his fat chuff, goes down to the local
university
| > and takes a course in theology - yes, one can
go to a
| > regular, run of the mill state university and
study
| > that subject. The day he has studied the
subject he is
| > to advise people in, then I'll be quite happy
to call
| > him a Pastor."
| >
| >
| > I have asked them repeatedly that they back up
their
| > claims about what I said and to quote me
saying what
| > they claim I said, or have the integrity to
retract
| > them. They have not done either and so, it is
very
| > telling about the level of honesty they
exhibit, or
| > should I say, "the lack of honesty they
display". They
| > love to keep trying to change the subject and
then
| > claim that I refuse to answer their questions.
The
| > truth is, I ignore their misdirection and stay
true to
| > the their original claims.
|
| You call yourself a pastor, there for you have
implicitly saying that
| you received education and training to thus be
able to have such a
| title. All I am now requesting is proof that you
are who you claim you
| are.
|
| Just as I said, if I were to call myself a
doctor, you would want to
| know in what field, and provide evidence to
prove that I was a doctor
| in that particular field of expertise.
|
| Matty
| -- | "If a nation could not prosper without the
enjoyment of perfect liberty
| and perfect justice, there is not in the world a
nation which could
| ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations,
Book IV, Chapter IX
|
| "Many forms of Government have been tried, and
will be tried in this
| world of sin and woe. No one pretends that
democracy is perfect or
| all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that
democracy is the worst form of
| government except all those other forms that
have been tried from time
| to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard,
November 11, 1947
|

Matty,

No offence, really. But I see a lot of 'prove it'
posts from darn near every PC poster in here. Why
does he have to prove to you what he does for a
living, or in his spare time? It really makes no
difference at all and has nothing to do with
anything in this forum. It seems like a terrible
waste of energy on your part and his to continue
the quest for proof.

He stated ( and I think his reason has merit) that
he did post his credentials at one time. It seems
everyone called this place and he was 'slapped in
the wrist' for giving this information out and
asked not to do so again. It makes sense. But
regardless.. it really has no impact on anything.
His being an educated pastor or a self-proclaimed
pastor. It wont change anything. Credibility is
really a personal issue, and won't make any
difference to those who like Dave. Its a waste of
your time, I think.
Now that I have tossed my nose into this and said
what I wanted to say.. it's your choice to
continue or to move on.

I'm not asking hi to re-post his crudentials, why not just say, "yes, I
have been to university, and had all the appropriate education" - what
is so hard about that?
If you want to know what qualifications I have, I would be more than
happy to share them with you as unlike Dave I have nothing to hide.
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
.
User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 18 Nov 2004 06:44:28 AM
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:45:39 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au>
pontificated:

I'm not asking hi to re-post his crudentials, why not just say, "yes, I
have been to university, and had all the appropriate education" - what
is so hard about that?

And if I did, your next statement would be, "Prove it".
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
User: "Matty"

Title: Re: Gay marriage CRUSHED 18 Nov 2004 08:08:27 AM
On 2004-11-18 23:44:28 +1100, Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> said:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:45:39 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au>
pontificated:


I'm not asking hi to re-post his crudentials, why not just say, "yes, I
have been to university, and had all the appropriate education" - what
is so hard about that?


And if I did, your next statement would be, "Prove it".

No, here and now I won't ask for proof. Just tell me.
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
"Well, if it is able to massage my prostate and bring me to a brain
spasming, head banging, bed shaking, door slamming, house rocking,
neighbour disturbing orgasm, then I'll be quietly happy in my own
little way ;-)" - kaiwai 13.11.04
.