"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:c30d43e8.0411041625.18971f6@posting.google.com...

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:<--WdnfhJ58M9ChTcRVn-jQ@comcast.com>...

"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:c30d43e8.0411031633.5655f0a8@posting.google.com...

youngopinions@aol.com (J Young) wrote in message
news:<9c2d0f9a.0411030650.46b54124@posting.google.com>...

Eleven states had initiatives on the ballots declaring marriage as
being a union between "a man and a woman". Eleven states approved
these by landslide proportions. Gay marriage is dead in the water, as
it should be. Decency has once again prevailed.

Gay marriage is not dead in the water. And decentcy did not prevail,
bigotry and prejudice did.

EVERYONE is a bigot in one form or another, including YOU.

Something that I am willing to acknowledge. However, I try to
recognize my own prejudices, and not let them rule me.

It is how we handle it, that causes prejudices.
Personally, as MOST Americans, I don't want marriage messed with.

So? Letting homosexuals marry will not change your marriage or your
rights in any way.

Regardless of your opinion, mine isn't going to change.

Marriage remaining
between a man and a woman happens to be a value of mine, and morally I can
not support gay marriage.

I view marriage as a union between a man and a woman, and I would like
to see it stay that way.

Even though marriage has traditionally included same sex unions in
many (most?) cultures.

Doesn't matter to me, what matters to me is what is happening in my own
country. I have no say in any other country.

And that includes the Christian church.
Catholicim has at least 2 homosexual saints, and they were guarenteed
to be together in happiness in Heaven. Catholicism also includes The
Office of Same Sex Unions in their liturgy, even though they do not
want to admit it.

You are intollerant of other peoples view points,

No, I am not.

Then you accept my opinion.

However, I do not wish to have your viewpoints shoved
down my throat, nor do I wish to see intolerance and prejudice made
into laws.

Nor do I wish to have the gay agenda shoved down my throat, nor do I wish to
see laws protecting "sexual preferences"

And forbidding homosexuals to marry is a good example of
that.

And disregarding the opinions and wishes of more than 3/4 of the population
is a good example of intollerance.

and you call them narrow minded

Because they are.

Well, I view you as being narrow minded as well.

...that makes YOU equally as narrow minded as those you call narrow
minded.

You would have a difficult time proving that assertion.

You are not tollerant to the feelings and opinions of millions of American's
who do not approve of homosexual marriage.

Regardless of their (our)
opinion, you still want to ignore that and make homosexual marriage legal.

To me, that is narrow minded and intollerant.

I don't hate gays at all, and I certainly wouldn't want to see anyone's
constitutional rights being taken away.

Then fight for their equal rights, including their right to marry.

I will fight for equal rights, I will not fight for their right to marry.

I personally view the "act" of homosexuality as "wrong",

So? That does not make it wrong.

In your opinion.

but that doesn't
mean I am going to "hate" the person, nor will I "treat" them any
differently.

Except that you will not allow homosexuals to marry the consenting
adult of their choice.

I do not have the authority to "allow" or not "allow"; however, I have the
right to vote for those who
do have that authority.

Are you going to fight for the right to display the 10 commandments in
public view?

Isn't it amazing, a judge who fought for the right to display the 10
commandments,

part of our history

and one of the very first set of laws for man

..not the first, one of the first though...was criticized and said he

breaking the law.

Yet a mayor, who took THOUSANDS of dollars handing out a
piece of worthless paper to people in San Fransico and was violating the law
there, was hailed as a hero.

Morally, this country is going backwards. Our society is deteriorating.

I treat people based on how they treat me. I am respectful to
most, considerate, friendly, and I always try to keep an open mind
towards
their opinion. That does NOT mean I will accept their opinion.

Nobody is asking you to.

Nobody asked you either.

Everyone has values and morals, there is a difference. Example, one
value
of mine is life..so my moral would be to "not kill" or to "preserve
life".

Marriage, as a union between man and woman, with the blessing of God...is
a
value of mine. As it is many other's.

And the union between two men or two women is also marriage. Your
religious views do not matter, since marriage is primarily a civil
matter because of all the rights that it confers onto the newlyweds.

Religious views most certianly do matter,
and if you go back before the
birth of Christ, religious views mattered in many issues.

My religious views are just as important as anyone elses.

And before you start, letting homosexuals marry has nothing to do with
religion.

Homosexuality is a sin,

a sin that is punished by enternal damnation.

If I was to support homosexual rights, that is just as bad as accepting the
sin itself.

I will not do that.

I will not compramise my values to please you or anyone else.

Simple as
that, and I wouldn't expect you to compramise your values either.

So don't
ask me to compramise mine, I will not ask you to compramise yours.

Religions and individual churches can still refuse to
perform homosexual marriage ceremonies if they wish, because the
couple can always get a civil ceremony done. That means that
government is not trying to force religions to do anything, as some
have accused on this issue.

And think on this question as well. Atheists still get married, even
though they do not invoke any diety. Pagans still get married, even
though many of them invoke their Goddess. And people of many other
religions get married that invoke many other dieties, both male and
female. Therefore, the blessing of your diety is not needed for
marriage to be legal.

That is your opinion. A family without God,

a person without faith,

is a
person and a family destined for failure.

Maybe it isn't a value to you, or isn't the "same" value. That is your
right, but don't think I am any more narrow minded because I feel
differently than you do.

I don't. I think that you are more narrow minded because of your
goals, and your desire to deny equal rights to law abiding citizens.

I think that you are narrow minded because you can't respect my opinion and
it appears that your agenda is to have my opinion silenced as well as others
who share my opinion.

I may view you as narrow minded because you are
intollerant of my value.

Actually, I don't care about your values.

If you didn't care, you wouldn't be spending so much time trying to tell me
how wrong I am.

I care about the goals that
you are working for.

It is my right.

And since those goals deny some people the same
rights as everyone else, and that denial is not because of due process
and conviction of a felony (people convicted of crimes lose many
rights, but only because they were convicted of a felony), but rather
because of their sexual orientation and their choice of the consenting
adult that they want to marry, that is why I think you are narrow
minded. You cannot seem to step back and see the larger picture.

After all, what harm is their in allowing homosexuals to marry the
consenting adult of their choice, and giving them the same rights as
heterosexual couples?

Because to accept them getting married is just as much as a sin as accepting
their behavior.

And I will not do that.
Nor will I support any politician who does support homosexual marriage.

None that I can see, since your religious
beliefs do not matter. Their religious beliefs are affected by you
treating them as second class citizens and denying them the right to
marry that their religion allows. And since it is their lives, their
religion is of greater importance. (First Amendment - freedom of
religion clause.)

Mark Sebree

"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:c30d43e8.0411041625.18971f6@posting.google.com...

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:<--WdnfhJ58M9ChTcRVn-jQ@comcast.com>...

"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:c30d43e8.0411031633.5655f0a8@posting.google.com...

youngopinions@aol.com (J Young) wrote in message
news:<9c2d0f9a.0411030650.46b54124@posting.google.com>...

Eleven states had initiatives on the ballots declaring marriage as
being a union between "a man and a woman". Eleven states approved
these by landslide proportions. Gay marriage is dead in the water, as
it should be. Decency has once again prevailed.

Gay marriage is not dead in the water. And decentcy did not prevail,
bigotry and prejudice did.

EVERYONE is a bigot in one form or another, including YOU.

Something that I am willing to acknowledge. However, I try to
recognize my own prejudices, and not let them rule me.

It is how we handle it, that causes prejudices.
Personally, as MOST Americans, I don't want marriage messed with.

So? Letting homosexuals marry will not change your marriage or your
rights in any way.

Regardless of your opinion, mine isn't going to change.

Marriage remaining
between a man and a woman happens to be a value of mine, and morally I can
not support gay marriage.

I view marriage as a union between a man and a woman, and I would like
to see it stay that way.

Even though marriage has traditionally included same sex unions in
many (most?) cultures.

Doesn't matter to me, what matters to me is what is happening in my own
country. I have no say in any other country.

And that includes the Christian church.
Catholicim has at least 2 homosexual saints, and they were guarenteed
to be together in happiness in Heaven. Catholicism also includes The
Office of Same Sex Unions in their liturgy, even though they do not
want to admit it.

You are intollerant of other peoples view points,

No, I am not.

Then you accept my opinion.

However, I do not wish to have your viewpoints shoved
down my throat, nor do I wish to see intolerance and prejudice made
into laws.

Nor do I wish to have the gay agenda shoved down my throat, nor do I wish to
see laws protecting "sexual preferences"

And forbidding homosexuals to marry is a good example of
that.

And disregarding the opinions and wishes of more than 3/4 of the population
is a good example of intollerance.

and you call them narrow minded

Because they are.

Well, I view you as being narrow minded as well.

...that makes YOU equally as narrow minded as those you call narrow
minded.

You would have a difficult time proving that assertion.

You are not tollerant to the feelings and opinions of millions of American's
who do not approve of homosexual marriage.

Regardless of their (our)
opinion, you still want to ignore that and make homosexual marriage legal.

To me, that is narrow minded and intollerant.

I don't hate gays at all, and I certainly wouldn't want to see anyone's
constitutional rights being taken away.

Then fight for their equal rights, including their right to marry.

I will fight for equal rights, I will not fight for their right to marry.

I personally view the "act" of homosexuality as "wrong",

So? That does not make it wrong.

In your opinion.

but that doesn't
mean I am going to "hate" the person, nor will I "treat" them any
differently.

Except that you will not allow homosexuals to marry the consenting
adult of their choice.

I do not have the authority to "allow" or not "allow"; however, I have the
right to vote for those who
do have that authority.

Are you going to fight for the right to display the 10 commandments in
public view?

Isn't it amazing, a judge who fought for the right to display the 10
commandments,

part of our history

and one of the very first set of laws for man

..not the first, one of the first though...was criticized and said he

breaking the law.

Yet a mayor, who took THOUSANDS of dollars handing out a
piece of worthless paper to people in San Fransico and was violating the law
there, was hailed as a hero.

Morally, this country is going backwards. Our society is deteriorating.

I treat people based on how they treat me. I am respectful to
most, considerate, friendly, and I always try to keep an open mind
towards
their opinion. That does NOT mean I will accept their opinion.

Nobody is asking you to.

Nobody asked you either.

Everyone has values and morals, there is a difference. Example, one
value
of mine is life..so my moral would be to "not kill" or to "preserve
life".

Marriage, as a union between man and woman, with the blessing of God...is
a
value of mine. As it is many other's.

And the union between two men or two women is also marriage. Your
religious views do not matter, since marriage is primarily a civil
matter because of all the rights that it confers onto the newlyweds.

Religious views most certianly do matter,
and if you go back before the
birth of Christ, religious views mattered in many issues.

My religious views are just as important as anyone elses.

And before you start, letting homosexuals marry has nothing to do with
religion.

Homosexuality is a sin,

a sin that is punished by enternal damnation.

If I was to support homosexual rights, that is just as bad as accepting the
sin itself.

I will not do that.

I will not compramise my values to please you or anyone else.

Simple as
that, and I wouldn't expect you to compramise your values either.

So don't
ask me to compramise mine, I will not ask you to compramise yours.

Religions and individual churches can still refuse to
perform homosexual marriage ceremonies if they wish, because the
couple can always get a civil ceremony done. That means that
government is not trying to force religions to do anything, as some
have accused on this issue.

And think on this question as well. Atheists still get married, even
though they do not invoke any diety. Pagans still get married, even
though many of them invoke their Goddess. And people of many other
religions get married that invoke many other dieties, both male and
female. Therefore, the blessing of your diety is not needed for
marriage to be legal.

That is your opinion. A family without God,

a person without faith,

is a
person and a family destined for failure.

Maybe it isn't a value to you, or isn't the "same" value. That is your
right, but don't think I am any more narrow minded because I feel
differently than you do.

I don't. I think that you are more narrow minded because of your
goals, and your desire to deny equal rights to law abiding citizens.

I think that you are narrow minded because you can't respect my opinion and
it appears that your agenda is to have my opinion silenced as well as others
who share my opinion.

I may view you as narrow minded because you are
intollerant of my value.

Actually, I don't care about your values.

If you didn't care, you wouldn't be spending so much time trying to tell me
how wrong I am.

I care about the goals that
you are working for.

It is my right.

And since those goals deny some people the same
rights as everyone else, and that denial is not because of due process
and conviction of a felony (people convicted of crimes lose many
rights, but only because they were convicted of a felony), but rather
because of their sexual orientation and their choice of the consenting
adult that they want to marry, that is why I think you are narrow
minded. You cannot seem to step back and see the larger picture.

After all, what harm is their in allowing homosexuals to marry the
consenting adult of their choice, and giving them the same rights as
heterosexual couples?

Because to accept them getting married is just as much as a sin as accepting
their behavior.

And I will not do that.
Nor will I support any politician who does support homosexual marriage.

None that I can see, since your religious
beliefs do not matter. Their religious beliefs are affected by you
treating them as second class citizens and denying them the right to
marry that their religion allows. And since it is their lives, their
religion is of greater importance. (First Amendment - freedom of
religion clause.)

Mark Sebree

You are intollerant of other peoples view points,

No, I am not.

Then you accept my opinion.

However, I do not wish to have your viewpoints shoved

down my throat, nor do I wish to see intolerance and prejudice made
into laws.

Nor do I wish to have the gay agenda shoved down my throat, nor do I wish to
see laws protecting "sexual preferences"

And forbidding homosexuals to marry is a good example of

that.

And disregarding the opinions and wishes of more than 3/4 of the population
is a good example of intollerance.

and you call them narrow minded

Because they are.

Well, I view you as being narrow minded as well.

...that makes YOU equally as narrow minded as those you call narrow
minded.

You would have a difficult time proving that assertion.

You are not tollerant to the feelings and opinions of millions of American's
who do not approve of homosexual marriage. Regardless of their (our)
opinion, you still want to ignore that and make homosexual marriage legal.
To me, that is narrow minded and intollerant.

I don't hate gays at all, and I certainly wouldn't want to see anyone's
constitutional rights being taken away.

Then fight for their equal rights, including their right to marry.

I will fight for equal rights, I will not fight for their right to marry.

I personally view the "act" of homosexuality as "wrong",

So? That does not make it wrong.

In your opinion.

but that doesn't
mean I am going to "hate" the person, nor will I "treat" them any
differently.

Except that you will not allow homosexuals to marry the consenting
adult of their choice.

I do not have the authority to "allow" or not "allow"; however, I have the
right to vote for those who
do have that authority.
Are you going to fight for the right to display the 10 commandments in
public view?

Isn't it amazing, a judge who fought for the right to display the 10
commandments, part of our history and one of the very first set of laws for
man..not the first, one of the first though...was criticized and said he was
breaking the law. Yet a mayor, who took THOUSANDS of dollars handing out a
piece of worthless paper to people in San Fransico and was violating the law
there, was hailed as a hero.
Morally, this country is going backwards. Our society is deteriorating.

I treat people based on how they treat me. I am respectful to
most, considerate, friendly, and I always try to keep an open mind
towards
their opinion. That does NOT mean I will accept their opinion.

Nobody is asking you to.

Nobody asked you either.

Everyone has values and morals, there is a difference. Example, one
value
of mine is life..so my moral would be to "not kill" or to "preserve
life".

Marriage, as a union between man and woman, with the blessing of God...is
a
value of mine. As it is many other's.

And the union between two men or two women is also marriage. Your
religious views do not matter, since marriage is primarily a civil
matter because of all the rights that it confers onto the newlyweds.

Religious views most certianly do matter, and if you go back before the
birth of Christ, religious views mattered in many issues.
My religious views are just as important as anyone elses.

And before you start, letting homosexuals marry has nothing to do with
religion.

Homosexuality is a sin, a sin that is punished by enternal damnation.
If I was to support homosexual rights, that is just as bad as accepting the
sin itself.
I will not do that.
I will not compramise my values to please you or anyone else. Simple as
that, and I wouldn't expect you to compramise your values either. So don't
ask me to compramise mine, I will not ask you to compramise yours.

Religions and individual churches can still refuse to

perform homosexual marriage ceremonies if they wish, because the
couple can always get a civil ceremony done. That means that
government is not trying to force religions to do anything, as some
have accused on this issue.

And think on this question as well. Atheists still get married, even
though they do not invoke any diety. Pagans still get married, even
though many of them invoke their Goddess. And people of many other
religions get married that invoke many other dieties, both male and
female. Therefore, the blessing of your diety is not needed for
marriage to be legal.

That is your opinion. A family without God, a person without faith, is a
person and a family destined for failure.

Maybe it isn't a value to you, or isn't the "same" value. That is your
right, but don't think I am any more narrow minded because I feel
differently than you do.

I don't. I think that you are more narrow minded because of your
goals, and your desire to deny equal rights to law abiding citizens.

I think that you are narrow minded because you can't respect my opinion and
it appears that your agenda is to have my opinion silenced as well as others
who share my opinion.

I may view you as narrow minded because you are
intollerant of my value.

Actually, I don't care about your values.

If you didn't care, you wouldn't be spending so much time trying to tell me
how wrong I am.

I care about the goals that

you are working for.

It is my right.

And since those goals deny some people the same

rights as everyone else, and that denial is not because of due process
and conviction of a felony (people convicted of crimes lose many
rights, but only because they were convicted of a felony), but rather
because of their sexual orientation and their choice of the consenting
adult that they want to marry, that is why I think you are narrow
minded. You cannot seem to step back and see the larger picture.

After all, what harm is their in allowing homosexuals to marry the
consenting adult of their choice, and giving them the same rights as
heterosexual couples?

Because to accept them getting married is just as much as a sin as accepting
their behavior. And I will not do that.
Nor will I support any politician who does support homosexual marriage.

None that I can see, since your religious

beliefs do not matter. Their religious beliefs are affected by you
treating them as second class citizens and denying them the right to
marry that their religion allows. And since it is their lives, their
religion is of greater importance. (First Amendment - freedom of
religion clause.)

Mark Sebree