Gays were not created that way
Bill Hernandez was a 23-year-old homosexual who took a job as a bartender

a 'gay' bar in California. Bill had been regarded as effeminate as a

Through his teens he allowed his thinking to lure him into becoming a
practising homosexual by his early twenties. By the age of 25, Bill was
ready to commit suicide.

The gay life is a sad life. Accounts from former homosexuals testify that
'gays' need to be helped-not to see their behaviour as 'normal', but to

it aside. One study has shown that 40 per cent of homosexuals believed

were psychologically disturbed. Other studies show that attempted suicide
and thoughts of suicide are much higher among gays than heterosexuals.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v13/i1/notthatway.asp
--
~There are no true atheists in Christian newsgroups.~
~Science is infallible but those hiding behind it are not~

Gays were not created that way
Bill Hernandez was a 23-year-old homosexual who took a job as a bartender at
a 'gay' bar in California. Bill had been regarded as effeminate as a child.
Through his teens he allowed his thinking to lure him into becoming a
practising homosexual by his early twenties. By the age of 25, Bill was
ready to commit suicide.

The gay life is a sad life. Accounts from former homosexuals testify that
'gays' need to be helped-not to see their behaviour as 'normal', but to lay
it aside. One study has shown that 40 per cent of homosexuals believed they

were psychologically disturbed. Other studies show that attempted suicide
and thoughts of suicide are much higher among gays than heterosexuals.

Gays were not created that way
Bill Hernandez was a 23-year-old homosexual who took a job as a bartender
at a 'gay' bar in California. Bill had been regarded as effeminate as a
child. Through his teens he allowed his thinking to lure him into becoming
a practising homosexual by his early twenties. By the age of 25, Bill was
ready to commit suicide.

The gay life is a sad life. Accounts from former homosexuals testify that
'gays' need to be helped-not to see their behaviour as 'normal', but to
lay it aside. One study has shown that 40 per cent of homosexuals believed
they were psychologically disturbed. Other studies show that attempted
suicide and thoughts of suicide are much higher among gays than
heterosexuals.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v13/i1/notthatway.asp
--
~There are no true atheists in Christian newsgroups.~
~Science is infallible but those hiding behind it are not~

http://www.answersingenesis.org

Gays were not created that way
Bill Hernandez was a 23-year-old homosexual who took a job as a bartender at
a 'gay' bar in California. Bill had been regarded as effeminate as a child.
Through his teens he allowed his thinking to lure him into becoming a
practising homosexual by his early twenties. By the age of 25, Bill was
ready to commit suicide.

The gay life is a sad life. Accounts from former homosexuals testify that
'gays' need to be helped-not to see their behaviour as 'normal', but to lay
it aside. One study has shown that 40 per cent of homosexuals believed they
were psychologically disturbed. Other studies show that attempted suicide
and thoughts of suicide are much higher among gays than heterosexuals.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v13/i1/notthatway.asp
--
~There are no true atheists in Christian newsgroups.~
~Science is infallible but those hiding behind it are not~

Gays were not created that way
Bill Hernandez was a 23-year-old homosexual who took a job as a bartender at
a 'gay' bar in California. Bill had been regarded as effeminate as a child.
Through his teens he allowed his thinking to lure him into becoming a
practising homosexual by his early twenties. By the age of 25, Bill was
ready to commit suicide.

The gay life is a sad life. Accounts from former homosexuals testify that
'gays' need to be helped-not to see their behaviour as 'normal', but to lay
it aside. One study has shown that 40 per cent of homosexuals believed they
were psychologically disturbed. Other studies show that attempted suicide
and thoughts of suicide are much higher among gays than heterosexuals.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v13/i1/notthatway.asp
--
~There are no true atheists in Christian newsgroups.~
~Science is infallible but those hiding behind it are not~

Homosexuality or Idolatrous sex?
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination*." ~
Leviticus 18:22. "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them
have committed an abomination*; they shall be put to death; their blood is
upon them." ~ Leviticus 20:13.
Those ignorant backwards middleeast retards had many abominations.
Like eating clams and lobsters was an abomination. Eating any thing from the
sea without scales was an abomination. They didn't know about scalops and
squid. They were all idiots.
The whole bible is based on idiotic superstitious morons.
The word translated into "abomination" was "to'evah" which, in the Torah,
nearly always referred to idols or idolatry. Though, there are a few
examples where it does not refer to idols/ idolatry. There was in fact a
form of homosexuality which was idolatrous. It was temple prostitution.
Even though the word nearly always meant idolatry, I think I should first
prove that the verses are in fact about temple prostitution before saying
the word was used there for idolatry.
The original Hebrew of "as with a woman" was "miskab issah" which in the
verses compares a man lying with a male (a boy in this case, keep reading)
with a man lying with a woman.
This is not "clear" when it comes to a condemnation of all homosexuality.
It is impossible for a man to literally lie with another man "as with a
woman".
The Hebrew word "zakar" refers to males, and depending on context, can
refer to boys. In Genesis 17:10,12,14, 23-27 zakar is contrasted with
"man" which of course implies that the word was used to mean boy. Also see
Leviticus 6:18, 29, 7:6, 12:2, and Judges 21:11-12.
The word "iysh" means man/adult male (and was often used to refer to
husbands). Therefore, whenever "zakar" is contrasted with "iysh", "zakar"
is being used to refer to boys.
What's my point? Only this: In Leviticus 20:13, the text reads "if a
[Hebrew:] IYSH lies with a [Hebrew:] ZAKAR......."
Well, what do we have here? We have "zakar" being contrasted with "iysh"
in Leviticus 20:13, the supposedly "clearest" biblical condemnation of
*all forms* of homosexuality! Look it up for yourself if you don't believe
me, I encourage you to do so.
If the author did not wish to refer to a man lying with a boy as if he is
a woman, then why did he use two different words for man? It seems highly
likely that he meant boy.
This fits in nicely with the temple prostitution view since most of
Molech's temple prostitutes were young boys.
These prostitution services were part of worship* rituals to their GodDESS
Astoroth also called Astarte. During such rituals the boys dressed up in
women's garments and wore masks of Astarte on their faces. So it was as if
they were women, even though they were males.
The worshipper would visit the temple to have sex with these boys, but
would first make an offering [which is what made it religious prostitution
instead of just ritualistic sex]. BUT, these customers/ worshippers were
MEN. Those men would lay with boys as if they were actually women... or as
the text says, they would "lie with a zakar as with a woman".
That is exactly what the author of Leviticus was describing. Proving this
is the fact that the text refers to a man lying with a boy as if he's a
woman. If it was homosexuality in general why would the writer say a man
and a boy instead of just saying a male with a male, and without adding
that whole "as if a woman" part?
Although I think this is enough proof I am still going to show more proof
that the author only had temple prostitution in mind.
(A) -----How the Death Penalty Comes into Play----
Further supporting the, already substantiated, temple prostitution view,
is the fact that if you make a list of crimes in Leviticus in which the
punishment is death, you will notice that all the death penalty crimes are
repeated once again in the Old Testament, especially in Deuteronomy.
But homosexuality is not repeated there (nor anywhere else in the Old
Testament), even though ALL of the other death penalty crimes are.
However, Deuteronomy does mention [transvestitic] temple prostitution, and
calls it toevah (the word translated into "abomination" in Leviticus
18:22/20:13).
Here is the list:
Leviticus 20:3-5: Child sacrifice. This is repeated in 2Kings 16:3 and
Deuteronomy 12:31.
Leviticus 20:6: Mediums and wizards. This is not specifically repeated but
would be included in Deuteronomy's ?no other gods? passage, 5:7, etc.
Leviticus 20:9: Cursing one's parents. This is repeated in Deuteronomy
27:16.
Leviticus 20:10: Adultery. Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:18, 22:22.
Leviticus 20:11: Incest with father's wife. Repeated in Deuteronomy 20:20.
Leviticus 20:12 Incest with child's spouse. Repeated in Deuteronomy 20:23.
Leviticus 20:13: Allegedly homosexuality in general. Not repeated in
Deuteronomy, nor anywhere else in the Old Testament.
Leviticus 20:14: Incest: both daughter and mother. Repeated in Deuteronomy
20:23.
Leviticus 20:15: Man committing bestiality. Repeated in Deuteronomy 20:21.
Leviticus 20:16: Woman committing bestiality. Repeated in Deuteronomy
20:21
"Seven out of nine are repeated precisely in Deuteronomy - down to the
details of which degree of consanguinity is involved in acts of incest.
20:12 (incest with a daughter-in-law) is not repeated precisely, but the
same degree of consanguinity is forbidden in Deut. 20:23. Necromancy is
not specifically forbidden again in Deuteronomy, but it is attested in a
number of places outside of Leviticus 18/20, notably in I Samuel 14:32-35,
which refers to the death penalty associated with the practice." -- Royce
Beuhler
Here now is Deuteronomy's passage on transvestitic temple prostitution:
"None of the daughters of Israel shall be a temple prostitute; none of the
sons of Israel shall be a temple prostitute. You shall not bring the fee
of a prostitute or the wages of a male prostitute into the house of the
Lord your God, for both of these are abhorrent [Hebrew toevah] to the Lord
your God." -- Deuteronomy 23:17-18 (NRSV)
There is not a single scholar who disputes that the King James'
translation of "sodomites" in this passage is a mistranslation. The words
translated into "temple prostitute" above were qadeshah and qadesh,
respectively. Qadeshah literally means "female holy one" while Qadesh
means "male Holy one".
The author of Deuteronomy obviously didn't consider them to be "holy". He
was using the name that the Canaanites, who were worshippers of Molech,
had for temple prostitutes. In Canaan male temple prostitutes were called
"holy ones" because they had been dedicated to Molech, whose shrine at
which they offered their sexual services.
If Leviticus 18:22/20:13 is not about transvestite temple prostitution,
then why is that its parallel in Deuteronomy?
(B) --------- ECHOES and LESBIANS ----------
Here something that most people don't catch on to-- Temple prostitution
made the author of 1Kings allude to Leviticus 18-20 INSTEAD of Deuteronomy
23:
"For they [Judah] also built for themselves high places, and pillars, and
Asherim on every high hill and under every green tree; and there were also
male cult prostitutes [qadeshim] in the land. They did according to all
the abominations [plural of toevah] of the nations which the LORD drove
out before the people of Israel." -- 1 Kings 14:23-24
According to traditionalists, Leviticus 18:22/20:13 prohibit homosexuality
in general. If that were the case then one would expect the author of
1Kings to echo the themes of Deuteronomy 23 when the topic of temple
prostitution came up.
But that isn't what happens. Instead, when the subject of temple
prostitution comes up, the author of Kings echoes the specific themes of
Leviticus 18:27-28: he calls the practices "toevah" and repeats the phrase
"did all of the abominations/toevah", and said those practices were the
practices of the former inhabitants of the land who were driven out of it
for engaging in such activities.
The fact that temple prostitution made the author of Kings allude to
Leviticus 18-20 INSTEAD of Deuteronomy is quite strange, UNLESS he thought
Leviticus was about transvestite temple prostitution.
Lesbians, or Lack Thereof: If the author was referring to homosexuality in
general, then why isn't there a mention of lesbians? The transvestite
temple prostitution rituals did NOT involve females, so it would make
sense for him not to mention lesbians if he did have [Molech's] temple
prostitution in mind.
When the author prohibited bestiality he said "if a woman lies down with a
beast" AND ALSO SAYS "if a man lies down with a beast". When the author
mentioned bestiality he mentioned both human genders... why wouldn't he do
the same in 18:22/20:13 if he meant homosexuality in general?
Furthermore, both women and men are prohibited from committing incest with
a parent-in-law, or parent, and from committing adultery.
"But, at least if the prosecution's theory is true, only males are
forbidden to have sex with their own gender. If we assume the traditional
theory, both of these silences are unexpected, and both break the pattern
of the way the Bible treats equally serious sins. The silences present a
puzzle.
On the defense theory, however, there are no curious silences to be
explained. If what Leviticus 18/20 forbids is a specific idolatrous
practice, then:
1. it is a practice which is also specifically forbidden in Deuteronomy,
just like all the other capital crimes, and
2. the cult which indulged in the practice had males coupling with males,
but not males coupling with females.
The data fit the defense theory like a glove; try to slip the
same data onto the prosecution's theory, and these two unseemly holes,
these two embarrassing silences, stick out like missing thumbs." -- Royce
Buehler
SUMMARY OF THE EVIDENCE:
In summary we have seen that:
(1) The author of Leviticus used two different words for male, one meaning
man the other meaning boy if contrasted with man, which it was in this
case, thus implying man-boy sex,
(2) Every death penalty crime in Leviticus is repeated again in
Deuteronomy (or somewhere else in the OT.) yet homosexuality is not. But
temple prostitution is, and is even referred to as "to'evah",
(3) Temple prostitution made the author of 1Kings think of Leviticus
18-20, instead of Deuteronomy 23,
(4) The author of Leviticus failed to mention lesbians,
(5) The author of Leviticus even identifies the "homosexual" acts as being
part of the Canaanites? rituals.
[Not to mention of course the word toevah, which almost always meant
idolatry in the Torah, but I'll leave that argument out for now.]
If someone thinks I am wrong and wants to prove it then he or she must
explain the above 5 observations. Any challengers?
--------- CONCLUSION --------
The texts should be translated as, [18:22:] "do not lie with a boy as if a
woman", and [20:13] "if a man lies with a boy as if a woman, both are
guilty of idolatry and will be put to death, their blood is on their own
hands."
Leviticus 18:22/20:13 isn't about homosexuality in general. It is not even
about gays in general, or even pederasty. It is about men lying with
boy-prostitutes as a means of worship to other Gods.
This view finds substantial evidence while the traditional thesis stands
on remarkably flimsy ground and fails to explain any of the observations
mentioned.
Religious prostitution effected Israel greatly (Deut. 23:17-18; I Ki
14:22-24, 15:11-13, 22:45-46; 2 Ki 23:4-7).
Astoroth, just as Molech, is called "the toevah" (2Kings 23:13). She was
the Goddess of erotic love and is often called the Queen of Heaven. The
Romans called her "Astarte", the Assyrians called her "Ishtar" (from which
we derive our word "Easter"), and the Phoenicians her "Asherah. Worship of
her worship is mentioned in Deuteronomy 16:21; Judges 2:13, 3:7, 6:28,
10:6; 1Samuel 7:3-4, 12:10, 31:10; 1Kings 11:5, 33, 14:15, 23, 15:13,
18:19; 2Kings 13:6, 17:10, 16, 18:4, 21:3-7, 23:13-14; 2Chronicles 14:3,
17:6,19:3, 24:18, 34:3-4; Isaiah 17:8, 27:9; Jeremiah 17:2; and Micah
5:14.
Ba'al, or Molech, was the God of the land and its crops. He is usually
depicted as a Bull. Ba'al is mentioned in Judges 2:11-13, 6:25-32; 1Samuel
7:4; 1Kings 16:31-32, 18:18&40, 19:18; 2Kings 3:2, 10:18-25, 11:18, 21:3,
23:4-5; 2Chronicles 24:7, 28:2, 33:3; Jeremiah 2:8, 23, 7:9, 23:13; Hosea
2:13-17, 13:1.
~BIBLIOGRAPHY~
"DO THE SCRIPTURES TEACH THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS ALWAYS SINFUL?" by
StarChild (who cites work from "Transgender Warriors" and "Gender: An
Ethnological Approach")-- "StarChild" was trained at Fuller Theological
Seminary in Pasadena, CA., where she studied Hebrew and Greek.
"Sexual sin in the Bible" by Ken Collins-- Ken has a Master of Divinity
degree from Wesley Theological Seminary, in Washington, DC.
"Homosexuality and Christianity" by Jeramy Townsley-- Learned in Greek and
Hebrew, Jeramy received a MA. in philosophy/theology from Lincoln
Christian College Seminary
"Homosexuality and the Bible The Practice of Safe Texts" by Rev. Dr.
Robert E. Goss
"The children are free" by Rev. Jeff Miner and John Tyler Connoley
"A Defense Theory: An Analysis of Six Critical Texts Used To Condemn
Homosexuality" by Royce Buehler http://www.whosoever.org/v2i5/defense.html
(I strongly recommend visiting that site)
"The Bible and Homosexuality" by Dr. Rembert Truluck, Doctor of Theology
from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, KY. Southern
Baptist Pastor from 1953 to 1973, Professor of Religion at Baptist College
of Charleston, SC, 1973-1981, and well learned in Hebrew and Greek.
Pax Christi,
. Ninu