| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"MrPepper11" |
| Date: |
23 Oct 2004 07:05:57 AM |
| Object: |
God and Sex |
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
So when God made homosexuals who fall deeply, achingly in love with
each other, did he goof?
That seems implicit in the measures opposing gay marriage on the
ballots of 11 states. All may pass; Oregon is the only state where the
outcome seems uncertain.
Over the last couple of months, I've been researching the question of
how the Bible regards homosexuality. Social liberals tend to be
uncomfortable with religious arguments, but that is the ground on
which political battles are often decided in America - as when a Texas
governor, Miriam "Ma" Ferguson, barred the teaching of foreign
languages about 80 years ago, saying, "If English was good enough for
Jesus Christ, it's good enough for us."
I think it's presumptuous of conservatives to assume that God is on
their side. But since Americans are twice as likely to believe in the
Devil as in evolution, I also think it's stupid of liberals to forfeit
the religious field.
Some scholars, like Daniel Helminiak, author of "What the Bible Really
Says About Homosexuality," argue that the Bible is not anti-gay. I
don't really buy that.
It's true that the story of Sodom is treated by both modern scholars
and by ancient Ezekiel as about hospitality, rather than
homosexuality. In Sodom, Lot puts up two male strangers for the night.
When a lustful mob demands they be handed over, Lot offers his two
virgin daughters instead. After some further unpleasantness, God
destroys Sodom. As Mark Jordan notes in "The Invention of Sodomy in
Christian Theology," it was only in the 11th century that theologians
began to condemn homosexuality as sodomy.
In fact, the most obvious lesson from Sodom is that when you're
attacked by an angry mob, the holy thing to do is to offer up your
virgin daughters.
Still, the traditionalists seem to me basically correct that the Old
Testament does condemn at least male anal sex (scholars disagree about
whether the Hebrew phrasing encompasses other sexual contact). While
homosexuality never made the Top 10 lists of commandments, a plain
reading of the Book of Leviticus is that male anal sex is every bit as
bad as other practices that the text condemns, like wearing a
polyester-and-cotton shirt (Leviticus 19:19).
As for the New Testament, Jesus never said a word about gays, while he
explicitly advised a wealthy man to give away all his assets and
arguably warned against bank accounts ("do not store up for yourselves
treasures on earth").
Likewise, Jesus praises those who make themselves eunuchs for the
Kingdom of Heaven, but conservative Christians rarely lead the way
with self-castration.
Theologians point out that that the Bible is big enough to encompass
gay relationships and tolerance - as well as episodic condemnations of
gays. For example, 1 Samuel can be read as describing gay affairs
between David and Jonathan.
In the New Testament, Matthew and Luke describe how Jesus cured the
beloved servant of a centurion - and some scholars argue that the
wording suggests that the pair were lovers, yet Jesus didn't blanch.
The religious right cites one part of the New Testament that clearly
does condemn male homosexuality - not in Jesus' words, but in Paul's.
The right has a tougher time explaining why lesbians shouldn't marry
because the Bible has no unequivocal condemnation of lesbian sex.
A passage in Romans 1 objects to women engaging in "unnatural" sex,
and this probably does mean lesbian sex, according to Bernadette
Brooten, the author of a fascinating study of early Christian
attitudes toward lesbians. But it's also possible that Paul was
referring to sex during menstruation or to women who are aggressive
during sex.
In any case, do we really want to make Paul our lawgiver? Will we
enforce Paul's instruction that women veil themselves and keep their
hair long? (Note to President Bush: If you want to obey Paul, why
don't you start by veiling Laura and keeping her hair long, and only
then move on to barring gay marriages.)
Given these ambiguities, is there any solution? One would be to
emphasize the sentiment in Genesis that "it is not good for the human
to be alone," and allow gay lovers to marry.
Or there's another solution. Paul disapproves of marriage except for
the sex-obsessed, saying that it is best "to remain unmarried as I
am." So if we're going to cherry-pick biblical phrases and ignore the
central message of love, then perhaps we should just ban marriage
altogether?
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| User: "jeffc" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
28 Oct 2004 11:29:51 AM |
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"j w @yahoo.com>" <john_w<no> wrote in message
news:g060o0trlfrolj2eerneg2vs5uk1h9gqdr@4ax.com...
No, I do not agree, nor did I ever say, that the people WHO wrote the
Bible were ignorant. Their lack of knowledge in many areas wasn't at
issue, since God wrote the Bible.
Oy vey.
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
27 Oct 2004 05:16:26 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:19:03 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:02:10 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:53:42 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:32:58 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in
the group)
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:16:58 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in
the group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible
don't speak agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know
it speaks agin strong wine but don't say nuthin bout
marijuana? I'm bring that there up in the next church
meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana
was as popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part
of the world. Remember these are also the people that
thought the world was flat during the time of these ancient
writings.
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was
flat, because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
They did, however, believe that bats were birds, and that
rabbits chew their cud.
I keep hearing that argument which is no argument. The Bible
also mentions "leviathan, behemoth, and the unicorn."
Which further proves the lack of knowledge the people that wrote
the Bible had.
Your dig has NOTHING to do with my reasonable, rational point. You
simply wish to attack the Bible.
Nonsense. You haven't proven that your assertion is fact. When
you can debate the topic like an adult, come back and try again.
ditto.
Then you agree that the people that wrote the bible had a lack of
knowledge. Thanks for that admission.
No, I do not agree, nor did I ever say, that the people WHO wrote the
Bible were ignorant. Their lack of knowledge in many areas wasn't at
issue, since God wrote the Bible.
Prove it.
--
Brigham Young on interracial marriage:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the
white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed
of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This
will always be so."
.
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
28 Oct 2004 02:36:26 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:16:26 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:19:03 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:02:10 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:53:42 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:32:58 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in
the group)
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:16:58 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in
the group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible
don't speak agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know
it speaks agin strong wine but don't say nuthin bout
marijuana? I'm bring that there up in the next church
meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana
was as popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part
of the world. Remember these are also the people that
thought the world was flat during the time of these ancient
writings.
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was
flat, because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
They did, however, believe that bats were birds, and that
rabbits chew their cud.
I keep hearing that argument which is no argument. The Bible
also mentions "leviathan, behemoth, and the unicorn."
Which further proves the lack of knowledge the people that wrote
the Bible had.
Your dig has NOTHING to do with my reasonable, rational point. You
simply wish to attack the Bible.
Nonsense. You haven't proven that your assertion is fact. When
you can debate the topic like an adult, come back and try again.
ditto.
Then you agree that the people that wrote the bible had a lack of
knowledge. Thanks for that admission.
No, I do not agree, nor did I ever say, that the people WHO wrote the
Bible were ignorant. Their lack of knowledge in many areas wasn't at
issue, since God wrote the Bible.
Prove it.
Do a Google search. There is LOTS of information there. And I get very
tired of writing the same stuff, 10 pages worth, 5 times a week, only
to have morons like you mutter and drool, "irrelevant" and brush it
aside.
I won't do your homework for you. If you are interested, with the
resources on the web today, I'm sure you'll find the information you
seek.
In short, you may be so foolish as to think this is all a game; I
don't; I am deadly serious, and I won't allow you to waste my time.
jw
God bless!
j w
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
28 Oct 2004 04:55:29 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:16:26 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:19:03 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:02:10 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:53:42 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in
the group)
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:32:58 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in
the group)
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:16:58 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it
in the group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the
bible don't speak agin it, then what's so wrong about it?
I know it speaks agin strong wine but don't say nuthin
bout marijuana? I'm bring that there up in the next church
meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana
was as popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part
of the world. Remember these are also the people that
thought the world was flat during the time of these ancient
writings.
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was
flat, because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
They did, however, believe that bats were birds, and that
rabbits chew their cud.
I keep hearing that argument which is no argument. The Bible
also mentions "leviathan, behemoth, and the unicorn."
Which further proves the lack of knowledge the people that
wrote the Bible had.
Your dig has NOTHING to do with my reasonable, rational point.
You simply wish to attack the Bible.
Nonsense. You haven't proven that your assertion is fact. When
you can debate the topic like an adult, come back and try again.
ditto.
Then you agree that the people that wrote the bible had a lack of
knowledge. Thanks for that admission.
No, I do not agree, nor did I ever say, that the people WHO wrote
the Bible were ignorant. Their lack of knowledge in many areas
wasn't at issue, since God wrote the Bible.
Prove it.
Do a Google search.
Hahahahaha! A Google search will prove that God wrote the Bible? Not
likely. You made the assertion, you provide the proof.
--
Brigham Young on interracial marriage:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the
white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed
of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This
will always be so."
.
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| User: "Old Gringo" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 05:53:30 PM |
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j w <john_w wrote:
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
Where on Earth did you read that?
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
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| User: "DOC !" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
24 Oct 2004 11:19:39 AM |
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On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:53:30 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
j w <john_w wrote:
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
Where on Earth did you read that?
Actually, the verse:
1 Samuel 2:8 :: King James Version (KJV)
Listen to this Printer-Friendly Page Bookmark this Page
See this passage in
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Previous chapter | This chapter | Next chapter
1 Samuel 2
8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar
from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit
the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and
he hath set the world upon them.
has nothing to do with 'the world being set upon pillars'.
It really speaks of those God raises in esteem from nothing, and He
considers them to be the pillars of the world, who whill inherit
eternal glory. It has nothing to do with imagining the world is flat,
or that the disciples even considered it.
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
24 Oct 2004 12:59:24 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:53:30 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
j w <john_w wrote:
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
Where on Earth did you read that?
In the Bible. The Bible is the oldest known literary source that says
the earth is round.
Isa 40
jw
God bless!
j w
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| User: "Dionisio" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
24 Oct 2004 11:50:51 PM |
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j w
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
Where on Earth did you read that?
In the Bible. The Bible is the oldest known literary source that says
the earth is round.
Of course how that squares with the Biblical position the the Earth has
four corners is anybody's guess. (Of, wait, "It's a miracle!")
--
The danger for what the press derisively calls the 'Religious Right' is that they are making the same mistakes the religious left made. To solve the moral problems of the nation they are looking to government rather than the Creator of their faith and His strategies.
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
25 Oct 2004 02:43:07 AM |
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x-no-archive:yes
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 04:50:51 GMT, Dionisio
<moc.rr.thgisni@5ellimd.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
j w
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
Where on Earth did you read that?
In the Bible. The Bible is the oldest known literary source that says
the earth is round.
Of course how that squares with the Biblical position the the Earth has
four corners is anybody's guess. (Of, wait, "It's a miracle!")
You like so many other mindless "skeptics" confuse the Bible's poetry
with science.
jw
God bless!
j w
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
25 Oct 2004 01:09:52 PM |
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j w wrote:
In the Bible. The Bible is the oldest known literary source that says
the earth is round.
Of course how that squares with the Biblical position the the Earth has
four corners is anybody's guess. (Of, wait, "It's a miracle!")
You like so many other mindless "skeptics" confuse the Bible's poetry
with science.
When you write bad science it doesn't matter if you screw
up in prose or in rhym.
Saying all these errors are mere poetry doesn't make them stop
being bad errors.
Whenever the bible sounds off on natural phenomenon,
it gets it wrong, always. So it can't be the word of god.
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "icono" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
25 Oct 2004 10:03:39 PM |
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"wbarwell" <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:417d4e7b$0$169$811e409b@news.mylinuxisp.com...
j w wrote:
In the Bible. The Bible is the oldest known literary source that says
the earth is round.
Of course how that squares with the Biblical position the the Earth has
four corners is anybody's guess. (Of, wait, "It's a miracle!")
You like so many other mindless "skeptics" confuse the Bible's poetry
with science.
When you write bad science it doesn't matter if you screw
up in prose or in rhym.
Saying all these errors are mere poetry doesn't make them stop
being bad errors.
Whenever the bible sounds off on natural phenomenon,
it gets it wrong, always. So it can't be the word of god.
People with an education still refer to the four corners of the earth. Of
course you wouldn't know anything about that.
.
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| User: "Barnacle Bill" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
25 Oct 2004 10:06:35 PM |
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In article <%7jfd.18197$SW3.12763@fed1read01>, icono wrote:
People with an education still refer to the four corners of the earth.
And the sun rising and setting.
BB
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
27 Oct 2004 04:49:28 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:03:39 -0700, "icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
"wbarwell" <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:417d4e7b$0$169$811e409b@news.mylinuxisp.com...
j w wrote:
In the Bible. The Bible is the oldest known literary source that says
the earth is round.
Of course how that squares with the Biblical position the the Earth has
four corners is anybody's guess. (Of, wait, "It's a miracle!")
You like so many other mindless "skeptics" confuse the Bible's poetry
with science.
When you write bad science it doesn't matter if you screw
up in prose or in rhym.
Saying all these errors are mere poetry doesn't make them stop
being bad errors.
Whenever the bible sounds off on natural phenomenon,
it gets it wrong, always. So it can't be the word of god.
People with an education still refer to the four corners of the earth. Of
course you wouldn't know anything about that.
Thanks for an EXCELLENT point , icon.
I also pointed out that "Love is a rose..." is bad science, but it was
a hit record.
Bette Middler's "Some say love..." is also bad science, as she tries
to compare love, an emotion, with all sorts of objects.
Bad science again, but for Bette, a gold record.
jw
God bless!
j w
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
27 Oct 2004 04:47:03 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:09:52 -0400, wbarwell
<wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
j w wrote:
In the Bible. The Bible is the oldest known literary source that says
the earth is round.
Of course how that squares with the Biblical position the the Earth has
four corners is anybody's guess. (Of, wait, "It's a miracle!")
You like so many other mindless "skeptics" confuse the Bible's poetry
with science.
When you write bad science it doesn't matter if you screw
up in prose or in rhym.
Saying all these errors are mere poetry doesn't make them stop
being bad errors.
Your bias, your bigotry are apparently endless, boundless, your mind
AWOL.
'Love is a rose" is also bad science.
But it was a gold record.
jw
snip
God bless!
j w
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
24 Oct 2004 02:16:21 PM |
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j w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:53:30 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
j w <john_w wrote:
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
Where on Earth did you read that?
In the Bible. The Bible is the oldest known literary source that says
the earth is round.
It doesn't.
It says the eath is flat and surmounted by a dome.
Which was dogma for centuries until the RCC realized
that the word was round and everybody knew it.
When Magellon and others sailed around it, the dogma was
quietly dropped.
The Bible, always wrong.
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
24 Oct 2004 04:44:44 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:16:21 -0400, wbarwell
<wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
j w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:53:30 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
j w <john_w wrote:
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
Where on Earth did you read that?
In the Bible. The Bible is the oldest known literary source that says
the earth is round.
It doesn't.
It says the eath is flat and surmounted by a dome.
You have been lied to. Or you are lying. Kindly quote the source of
that "gem."
jw
Which was dogma for centuries until the RCC realized
that the word was round and everybody knew it.
When Magellon and others sailed around it, the dogma was
quietly dropped.
The Bible, always wrong.
God bless!
j w
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 12:15:11 PM |
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On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:50:53 -0500, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, "Jude"
<cajun@bayou.louisiana> yodeled:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible don't speak
agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know it speaks agin strong wine
but don't say nuthin bout marijuana? I'm bring that there up in the next
church meeting, I am. :)
Of course you would.
1 Corinthians 3:16-17
16) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that
the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God
destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye
are.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/1stcentury/
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof,
for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly
furnished unto all good works." - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
"The fact of evolution is the backbone of biology
and biology is thus in the peculiar position of
being a science founded on an unproved theory.
Is it then science, or faith? Belief in the
theory of evolution is thus exactly parallel to
belief in special creation. Both are concepts
which believers know to be true, but neither,
up to the present, has been capable of proof.
- L. Harrison Matthews, FRS, Introduction to
the 1971 edition of Charles Darwin's Origin
of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or
the Preservation of Favored Races in the
Struggle for Life
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 12:16:45 PM |
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Old Gringo <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
So is religion. :c)
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| User: "Old Gringo" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 12:20:44 PM |
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Andrealphus wrote:
Old Gringo <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
So is religion. :c)
Yes :)
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 05:17:14 PM |
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Old Gringo wrote:
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
All religion came from ancient hallucinogen usage.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 05:44:51 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:45:00 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
So is alcohol. :)
And even sunlight will put you in a different mood/frame of mind, as
will rain.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
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| User: "Old Gringo" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 05:55:10 PM |
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j w <john_w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:45:00 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
So is alcohol. :)
And even sunlight will put you in a different mood/frame of mind, as
will rain.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
Then Hooray for the Sun & Rain Gods.
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 05:16:34 PM |
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Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man. No one knows
what they were smoking when they wrote the Bibles of the world. God
is yours to do with as you wish, and not to do with as your neighbor
wishes.
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Nope........and it seems Jesus used it........
http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc11/christ.html
Cool eh ?
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 09:15:58 PM |
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On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:38:56 -0500, "Jude" <cajun@bayou.louisiana>
wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man. No one knows
what they were smoking when they wrote the Bibles of the world. God
is yours to do with as you wish, and not to do with as your neighbor
wishes.
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
And God said,
And the earth brought forth grass and herb yielding seed after its
kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his
kind: and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:12)
God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is
upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in which is the fruit
of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat... (Gen. 1:29-31)
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 05:43:54 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:38:56 -0500, "Jude" <cajun@bayou.louisiana>
wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man. No one knows
what they were smoking when they wrote the Bibles of the world. God
is yours to do with as you wish, and not to do with as your neighbor
wishes.
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not specifically, and there is some debate and division on the
subject.
if you are looking for a verse that says, "you shall not smoke weed,"
you aren't going to find it. Some believe that "do not pollute your
temple" applies here. The flip side of that is, "What in the 21st
century doesn't pollute our temples?"
It is also worthwhile to point out that, historically, cannabis was
being used as a medication by the cultures surrounding the Jews/Israel
at that time. It is unlikely that Jews would have not been
1. curious
2. trying it
cannabis has been considered "evil" only recently. As recently as the
1940s, it was legal in the US. And many believe it is simply
experiencing the same sort of prohibition alcohol suffered in the
20s/30s.
The proof of the pudding is how many states these past 30 years have
decriminalized weed. It simply remains a "hot-button" since the MAJOR
contributors do not wish the world to know they smoke dope, so they
put major money into candidates who agree to PUBLICLY prohibit it.
Look for cannabis to be legal across the US in the next 10 years or
so.
jw
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
God bless!
j w
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| User: "Healed from Diabetes by Jesus Christ" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 09:39:32 AM |
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"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man.
OR THE MODERN ONES, TOO....
GOD IS LOVE, GOD IS TRUTH, MAN IS SINFUL... YOU CAN BELIEVE WHOEVER YOU
WANT, WITHOUT CHOICE, THERE CAN BE NO LOVE.....
Christians must go to the polls, and you can encourage them to look at the
important issues:
If you agree these are the issues, please CUT/COPY AND SEND this to EVERYONE
YOU KNOW. If you don't agree, please feel free to reply and send me any
corrections you feel are important. The whole country appears to be
dependent on your ability to get Christians out to vote....
Spiritual differences between President Bush and Senator Kerry
a.. John Kerry goes to church twice as often during campaign years,
obviously, for political reasons.
b.. President Bush believes he is a child of God that has become President
of the United States. John Kerry believes he is a politician who happens to
be Catholic.
c.. President Bush believes choosing life is the basis of all the
difficult social political issues. John Kerry believes politics is the
basis for every decision regarding life.
d.. President Bush believes abortion is wrong and is not a political
question. John Kerry believes politics should be the basis of resolving
abortion questions.
Marriage Amendment, Marriage defined to be between one man and one woman
President Bush favors
John Kerry opposed (Both in debate and previous votes)
Partial-Birth Abortion
President Bush is opposed
John Kerry favors (Both in debate and previous votes)
Restoring voluntary prayer in the public schools
President Bush Favors
John Kerry is Opposed
Assault on Mel Gibson for making film about Christ
President Bush supports Gibson
John Kerry participated in Left's assault on Gibson, suggesting possible
anti-Semitism even though Kerry had not seen the film.
Assault on boy Scouts for belief in God and not allowing Homosexual
Scout Leaders
President Bush supports Boy Scouts' stand
John Kerry opposes boy Scouts' stand
Asking for God's blessing on America
President Bush often asks God to bless America in his speeches
John Kerry attacks Bush for mentioning God so often
Judges
President bush says "We need common-sense judges who believe our rights are
derived from God."
John Kerry insists on judges who support the ACLU's radical anti-Christian,
anti-God, anti-family agenda. John Kerry is insistent on blocking President
Bush's federal judge appointments.
Overall Record
President Bush does not vote on issues before Congress but, based on his
publicly stated positions, would receive an 85% conservative rating from the
American Conservative Union if he did.
John Kerry, according to the highly respected, politically-neutral National
Journal rates Kerry the most liberal U. S. Senator in 2003 -- more liberal
than Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton.
Questions:
1) Do you want marriage re-defined?
Are you FOR marriage between one man and one woman - THIS IS ONE OF THERE
CLEAREST CHOICES BETWEEN THE TWO CANDIDATES, AND IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE
WHICH ONE IS PRESIDENT ON THIS ISSUE.
2) Do you think killing a baby, who is in the process of being delivered
(with the head out of the womb), should be legal ("Partial Birth Killing")
Again, a very clear difference, and this will make a difference if (and more
likely) when the next President nominates a Supreme Court Justice, as these
"PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION" cases will be heard by the Supreme Court in the
next few years.
3) Is Terrorism an issue with you?
If it is, there is a clear choice again. Kerry will negotiate with
terrorists and rely on countries like France to make his decisions. WE KNOW
BUSH WILL NEVER GIVE IN TO A TERRORIST, AND WE KNOW RUSSIA WON'T, ISRAEL
WON'T, BRITAIN WON'T, AND HOPEFULLY SOON, THE REST OF THE WORLD WON'T
4) SINCE KERRY KEEPS BRING UP PRESIDENT REAGAN, LET'S SEE THE
DIFFERENCE....
KERRY VOTED AGAINST PRESIDENT REAGAN ON EVERY MAJOR SOCIAL AND DEFENSE
ISSUE.
KERRY CALLED PRESIDENT REAGAN ONE OF THE MOST IMMORAL PRESIDENTS, EVER.
President Bush would agree with President Reagan on almost EVERY MAJOR
SOCIAL AND DEFENSE ISSUE.
Alan Gluck
5138 Marlin Way
Oxnard, Ca 93035
805 985 7471 - Ventura Office
805 444 0295 - Cell
The religious difference between the two is that Kerry is Catholic and Bush
is Protestant.
But the religious difference regarding denominational affiliation is not
what is important in eternity's eye. What is most significant is the
spiritual difference between the two.
Kerry is a renegade Catholic. For one, he insists in desecrating Communion
by defying scriptural truths. Specifically, Kerry endorses killing babies AS
THEY ARE 1/2 OUT OF THE WOMB. That's against divine revelation. While
championing murdering unborn infants, Kerry places in his mouth the sacred
elements representing the death of Christ. That is sacrilege. Therefore, on
that one issue alone, Kerry is not only a horrible Catholic but not at all a
Christian, Suffice it to say that Kerry has no regard for biblical ethics.
Instead, he finds it most opportunistic to write his own religion, an
appalling current fad among too many churchgoers.
Bush on the other hand is a devout Christian in that he seeks to understand
the biblical morality, then live it. He, like us all, is not perfect. He,
being mortal, has his share of flaws. Let that believer without flaw cast
the first stone at the United States President. Unfortunately, it appears
frequently that the Democrats, human like the rest of us, demand perfection
from the President while not able to live out perfection themselves. The
same can be said for the liberal press. Nevertheless, Bush of all persons
understands his shortcomings, yet attempts to live out Christ in his daily
affairs.
Bush depends on faithfulness to worship for his soul strength. He also has
let it be known without apology that he regards the Bible as his favorite
reading. Further, he not only regards the Bible as such but opens it daily
for spiritual inspiration and direction. His wife joins him in like
dedication.
Bush prays. He has stated that over and over again, not in boasting, but
because he has been asked by reporters as to his prayer life. When asked,
Bush responds that he depends upon the Holy Spirit for moment-by-moment
encouragement as well as wisdom in fulfilling his duties.
So we have two persons running for the highest office in the country. One is
a self-styled religionist of the most liberal and apostate expression. The
other is a devout believer who seeks, as best he can, to live out the Spirit
of Jesus. That's the main difference between these two candidates - one a
sincere Christian and the other a desecrating churchgoer.
According to Scripture, the sincere believer, though flawed in being a
damaged human being, is smiled upon by God. That individual comes upon the
divine favor. However, according to the same Scripture, the rebellious soul
who seeks his own religious convenience apart from the divine dictate is not
only displeasing to the Almighty but is in soul danger of the divine wrath.
Kerry says we should seek to follow God, Bush "let's his deeds" speak for
themselves.
http://www.republicanandproud.com/spiritual_difference_between_bus.htm
Most teenagers now believe oral sex is not sex....
Thank you Democrats like Kerry and Clinton, and thanks to them,
IRRESPONSIBLE LACK OF MORALS HAVE HELPED ADD TO THE MORAL DECAY OF THIS
COUNTRY.
A VOTE FOR KERRY IS A VOTE AGAINST GOD'S PEOPLE AND GOD'S SPIRITUAL LAWS.
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| User: "jeffc" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
26 Oct 2004 02:19:09 PM |
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"Healed from Diabetes by Jesus Christ" <info2day@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:E2ued.702$jD4.560@trnddc06...
b.. President Bush believes he is a child of God that has become President
of the United States.
Bush doesn't have the slightest idea what he really believes. He has no moral
compass or soul, and is just a shell - a sock puppet for the rich and corrupt.
When asked if homosexuality was a choice, he said "I don't know." He doesn't
know much. But hey, believe in the delusional little drunk frat boy if it makes
you feel better.
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| User: "icono" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
27 Oct 2004 12:24:04 AM |
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"jeffc" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:417ea56b_3@news1.prserv.net...
"Healed from Diabetes by Jesus Christ" <info2day@bigfoot.com> wrote in
message
news:E2ued.702$jD4.560@trnddc06...
b.. President Bush believes he is a child of God that has become
President
of the United States.
Bush doesn't have the slightest idea what he really believes. He has no
moral
compass or soul, and is just a shell - a sock puppet for the rich and
corrupt.
When asked if homosexuality was a choice, he said "I don't know." He
doesn't
know much. But hey, believe in the delusional little drunk frat boy if it
makes
you feel better.
Rich / Rich from inheritance rather than work = Democratic leadership
without exception.
Get a brain.
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| User: "jeffc" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
27 Oct 2004 10:09:29 AM |
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"icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote in message news:EhGfd.19534$SW3.9457@fed1read01...
Bush doesn't have the slightest idea what he really believes. He has no
moral
compass or soul, and is just a shell - a sock puppet for the rich and
corrupt.
When asked if homosexuality was a choice, he said "I don't know." He
doesn't
know much. But hey, believe in the delusional little drunk frat boy if it
makes
you feel better.
Rich / Rich from inheritance rather than work = Democratic leadership
without exception.
Get a brain.
You're joking, right? Just being facetious? You do realize where Bush got all
his money, right? Kerry is well to do already from his law and district
attorney practice. So is Edwards. The fact that Kerry married a rich woman is
not really the point. Granted, Kerry was not born in poverty, but if being
given everything in life applies to anyone, it applies mostly to Bush.
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| User: "icono" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
27 Oct 2004 08:34:17 PM |
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"jeffc" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:417fbc60_3@news1.prserv.net...
"icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote in message
news:EhGfd.19534$SW3.9457@fed1read01...
Bush doesn't have the slightest idea what he really believes. He has
no
moral
compass or soul, and is just a shell - a sock puppet for the rich and
corrupt.
When asked if homosexuality was a choice, he said "I don't know." He
doesn't
know much. But hey, believe in the delusional little drunk frat boy if
it
makes
you feel better.
Rich / Rich from inheritance rather than work = Democratic leadership
without exception.
Get a brain.
You're joking, right? Just being facetious? You do realize where Bush
got all
his money, right? Kerry is well to do already from his law and district
attorney practice. So is Edwards. The fact that Kerry married a rich
woman is
not really the point. Granted, Kerry was not born in poverty, but if
being
given everything in life applies to anyone, it applies mostly to Bush.
Like I said, "Get a brain"
You obviously can't read.
Start with Roosevelt's, Kennedy's. Of course they are only a couple but
examples.
Rich / Rich from inheritance rather than work = Democratic leadership
without exception.
Get a brain.
Those "corporate scum" as those same Democrats are intent on taxing are the
two to ten person corporations.
The Kennedy's, Roosevelt's, Kerrie's, Edwards pay an average of 12 to 13
percent tax. The "rich" they talk of pay 20 to 25 percent.
Get a brain.
.
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