God and Sex

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Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"MrPepper11"
Date:	23 Oct 2004 07:05:57 AM
Object:	God and Sex

New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

So when God made homosexuals who fall deeply, achingly in love with
each other, did he goof?
That seems implicit in the measures opposing gay marriage on the
ballots of 11 states. All may pass; Oregon is the only state where the
outcome seems uncertain.
Over the last couple of months, I've been researching the question of
how the Bible regards homosexuality. Social liberals tend to be
uncomfortable with religious arguments, but that is the ground on
which political battles are often decided in America - as when a Texas
governor, Miriam "Ma" Ferguson, barred the teaching of foreign
languages about 80 years ago, saying, "If English was good enough for
Jesus Christ, it's good enough for us."
I think it's presumptuous of conservatives to assume that God is on
their side. But since Americans are twice as likely to believe in the
Devil as in evolution, I also think it's stupid of liberals to forfeit
the religious field.
Some scholars, like Daniel Helminiak, author of "What the Bible Really
Says About Homosexuality," argue that the Bible is not anti-gay. I
don't really buy that.
It's true that the story of Sodom is treated by both modern scholars
and by ancient Ezekiel as about hospitality, rather than
homosexuality. In Sodom, Lot puts up two male strangers for the night.
When a lustful mob demands they be handed over, Lot offers his two
virgin daughters instead. After some further unpleasantness, God
destroys Sodom. As Mark Jordan notes in "The Invention of Sodomy in
Christian Theology," it was only in the 11th century that theologians
began to condemn homosexuality as sodomy.
In fact, the most obvious lesson from Sodom is that when you're
attacked by an angry mob, the holy thing to do is to offer up your
virgin daughters.
Still, the traditionalists seem to me basically correct that the Old
Testament does condemn at least male anal sex (scholars disagree about
whether the Hebrew phrasing encompasses other sexual contact). While
homosexuality never made the Top 10 lists of commandments, a plain
reading of the Book of Leviticus is that male anal sex is every bit as
bad as other practices that the text condemns, like wearing a
polyester-and-cotton shirt (Leviticus 19:19).
As for the New Testament, Jesus never said a word about gays, while he
explicitly advised a wealthy man to give away all his assets and
arguably warned against bank accounts ("do not store up for yourselves
treasures on earth").
Likewise, Jesus praises those who make themselves eunuchs for the
Kingdom of Heaven, but conservative Christians rarely lead the way
with self-castration.
Theologians point out that that the Bible is big enough to encompass
gay relationships and tolerance - as well as episodic condemnations of
gays. For example, 1 Samuel can be read as describing gay affairs
between David and Jonathan.
In the New Testament, Matthew and Luke describe how Jesus cured the
beloved servant of a centurion - and some scholars argue that the
wording suggests that the pair were lovers, yet Jesus didn't blanch.
The religious right cites one part of the New Testament that clearly
does condemn male homosexuality - not in Jesus' words, but in Paul's.
The right has a tougher time explaining why lesbians shouldn't marry
because the Bible has no unequivocal condemnation of lesbian sex.
A passage in Romans 1 objects to women engaging in "unnatural" sex,
and this probably does mean lesbian sex, according to Bernadette
Brooten, the author of a fascinating study of early Christian
attitudes toward lesbians. But it's also possible that Paul was
referring to sex during menstruation or to women who are aggressive
during sex.
In any case, do we really want to make Paul our lawgiver? Will we
enforce Paul's instruction that women veil themselves and keep their
hair long? (Note to President Bush: If you want to obey Paul, why
don't you start by veiling Laura and keeping her hair long, and only
then move on to barring gay marriages.)
Given these ambiguities, is there any solution? One would be to
emphasize the sentiment in Genesis that "it is not good for the human
to be alone," and allow gay lovers to marry.
Or there's another solution. Paul disapproves of marriage except for
the sex-obsessed, saying that it is best "to remain unmarried as I
am." So if we're going to cherry-pick biblical phrases and ignore the
central message of love, then perhaps we should just ban marriage
altogether?
.

User: "jeffc"
Title: Re: God and Sex	28 Oct 2004 11:29:06 AM

"icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote in message
news:90Yfd.19692$SW3.14783@fed1read01...

Rich / Rich from inheritance rather than work = Democratic leadership
without exception.
Get a brain.

You're joking, right? Just being facetious? You do realize where Bush
got all
his money, right? Kerry is well to do already from his law and district
attorney practice. So is Edwards. The fact that Kerry married a rich
woman is
not really the point. Granted, Kerry was not born in poverty, but if
being
given everything in life applies to anyone, it applies mostly to Bush.

Like I said, "Get a brain"

You obviously can't read.

Read what? You're denying that Bush got his wealth from inheritance? You're
denying that Bush has wrecked every business venture he's ever started, and
gotten bailed out by his daddy or the tax payers? Is that what you're saying?
.

User: "icono"
Title: Re: God and Sex	28 Oct 2004 08:50:03 PM

"jeffc" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:4181208b_3@news1.prserv.net...

"icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote in message
news:90Yfd.19692$SW3.14783@fed1read01...

Rich / Rich from inheritance rather than work = Democratic leadership
without exception.
Get a brain.

You're joking, right? Just being facetious? You do realize where Bush
got all
his money, right? Kerry is well to do already from his law and
district
attorney practice. So is Edwards. The fact that Kerry married a rich
woman is
not really the point. Granted, Kerry was not born in poverty, but if
being
given everything in life applies to anyone, it applies mostly to Bush.

Like I said, "Get a brain"

You obviously can't read.

Read what? You're denying that Bush got his wealth from inheritance?
You're
denying that Bush has wrecked every business venture he's ever started,
and
gotten bailed out by his daddy or the tax payers? Is that what you're
saying?

Bush is a pauper compared to most Dem leaders.
The Bush family is a business family and pays real taxes.
.

User: "jeffc"
Title: Re: God and Sex	29 Oct 2004 11:49:08 AM

"icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Vkhgd.23035$SW3.11712@fed1read01...

Bush is a pauper compared to most Dem leaders.
The Bush family is a business family and pays real taxes.

Oh my, you really have been brainwashed. Do you have any idea why Cheney became
the vice president?
.

User: "icono"
Title: Re: God and Sex	29 Oct 2004 01:09:50 PM

"jeffc" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:418276c3_4@news1.prserv.net...

"icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Vkhgd.23035$SW3.11712@fed1read01...

Bush is a pauper compared to most Dem leaders.
The Bush family is a business family and pays real taxes.

Oh my, you really have been brainwashed. Do you have any idea why Cheney
became
the vice president?

More direct info that you ever had on anything.
.

User: "Matty"
Title: Re: God and Sex	27 Oct 2004 10:01:19 AM

On 2004-10-27 15:24:04 +1000, "icono" <icono@cox.net> said:

"jeffc" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:417ea56b_3@news1.prserv.net...

"Healed from Diabetes by Jesus Christ" <info2day@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:E2ued.702$jD4.560@trnddc06...

b.. President Bush believes he is a child of God that has become President
of the United States.

Bush doesn't have the slightest idea what he really believes. He has no moral
compass or soul, and is just a shell - a sock puppet for the rich and corrupt.
When asked if homosexuality was a choice, he said "I don't know." He doesn't
know much. But hey, believe in the delusional little drunk frat boy if
it makes
you feel better.

Rich / Rich from inheritance rather than work = Democratic leadership
without exception.
Get a brain.

How do you explain GWB? every bloody business he has been involved with
has gone tits up!
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
.

User: "Jez"
Title: Re: God and Sex	23 Oct 2004 05:15:21 PM

Healed from Diabetes by Jesus Christ wrote:

"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...

MrPepper11 wrote:
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man.

OR THE MODERN ONES, TOO....

GOD IS LOVE, GOD IS TRUTH, MAN IS SINFUL... YOU CAN BELIEVE WHOEVER YOU
WANT, WITHOUT CHOICE, THERE CAN BE NO LOVE.....

There is no God.

Christians must go to the polls, and you can encourage them to look at the
important issues:

If you agree these are the issues, please CUT/COPY AND SEND this to EVERYONE
YOU KNOW. If you don't agree, please feel free to reply and send me any
corrections you feel are important. The whole country appears to be
dependent on your ability to get Christians out to vote....

Spiritual differences between President Bush and Senator Kerry
a.. John Kerry goes to church twice as often during campaign years,
obviously, for political reasons.
b.. President Bush believes he is a child of God that has become President
of the United States.

Which makes him insane, actually.
<<<<<snippage>>>>>>.

Bush already has......remember, that instead of dealing with the
terrorist threats that he had been warned of, he took a holiday !!
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
.

User: "Old Gringo"
Title: Re: God and Sex	23 Oct 2004 09:50:02 AM

Healed from Diabetes by Jesus Christ wrote:

"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...

MrPepper11 wrote:
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man.

OR THE MODERN ONES, TOO....

I don't believe I have seen so much ambiguous rambling in my life.
What you are doing has been tested for over 10,000 years and it
doesn't work. It's now time to try something new. We have improved
upon everything in our material lives, and now it is time to improve
our life itself.
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
.

User: "Kate "
Title: Re: God and Sex	23 Oct 2004 02:50:11 PM

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:39:32 GMT, "Healed from Diabetes by Jesus
Christ" <info2day@bigfoot.com> wrote:

"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...

MrPepper11 wrote:
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man.

OR THE MODERN ONES, TOO....

GOD IS LOVE, GOD IS TRUTH, MAN IS SINFUL... YOU CAN BELIEVE WHOEVER YOU
WANT, WITHOUT CHOICE, THERE CAN BE NO LOVE.....

Christians must go to the polls, and you can encourage them to look at the
important issues:

If you agree these are the issues, please CUT/COPY AND SEND this to EVERYONE
YOU KNOW. If you don't agree, please feel free to reply and send me any
corrections you feel are important. The whole country appears to be
dependent on your ability to get Christians out to vote....

Spiritual differences between President Bush and Senator Kerry
a.. John Kerry goes to church twice as often during campaign years,
obviously, for political reasons.
b.. President Bush believes he is a child of God that has become President
of the United States. John Kerry believes he is a politician who happens to
be Catholic.

Bush gets mad when anyone asks him what biblical verse he read that
day after stating that he does that every day.
Bush doesn't know the bible sections he supposedly went to some 2 week
seminar on and studied.
Obviously Bush is just saying that he is real religous when what he is
really doing is just faking it so all you Christians would support
him.

c.. President Bush believes choosing life is the basis of all the
difficult social political issues. John Kerry believes politics is the
basis for every decision regarding life.

Bush doesn't choose life as a basis of all difficult social political
issues. His actions do not match his words. He decided that the
lives of Iraqis are not worth worrying about when there was a military
target in the neighborhood.
You are could not have come to that conclusion about Kerry's view if
you had actually listened to him and I find your statement unethical
at best, a lie and a sin of your own religion.

d.. President Bush believes abortion is wrong and is not a political
question. John Kerry believes politics should be the basis of resolving
abortion questions.

You are could not have come to that conclusion about Kerry's view if
you had actually listened to him and I find your statement unethical
at best, a lie and a sin of your own religion.

Marriage Amendment, Marriage defined to be between one man and one woman

President Bush favors
John Kerry opposed (Both in debate and previous votes)

Partial-Birth Abortion

President Bush is opposed
John Kerry favors (Both in debate and previous votes)

Partial Birth abortion illegality at the expense of the woman when she
is in medical need is an abomination and a sign of hatred of women. I
think Jesus would have found your support of it most disgusting.

Restoring voluntary prayer in the public schools

President Bush Favors
John Kerry is Opposed

That's an outright lie. As you well know, voluntary prayer in public
schools has always been legal and available as long as it isn't
promoted by the government staff and it doesn't interfere with class
time.
Another sin. You are an evil person, aren't you? Does your child
know you lie so often?

Assault on Mel Gibson for making film about Christ

President Bush supports Gibson
John Kerry participated in Left's assault on Gibson, suggesting possible
anti-Semitism even though Kerry had not seen the film.

Now that's just silly and based on nothing.

Assault on boy Scouts for belief in God and not allowing Homosexual

Scout Leaders
President Bush supports Boy Scouts' stand
John Kerry opposes boy Scouts' stand

More silliness and outright lie. Boy, you are not a good upstanding
person are you?

Asking for God's blessing on America

President Bush often asks God to bless America in his speeches
John Kerry attacks Bush for mentioning God so often

As well he should. Bush uses religion to divide rather than unite.

Judges

President bush says "We need common-sense judges who believe our rights are
derived from God."

John Kerry insists on judges who support the ACLU's radical anti-Christian,
anti-God, anti-family agenda. John Kerry is insistent on blocking President
Bush's federal judge appointments.

More lies. There's nothing anti-Christian, anti-god or anti-family
about the ACLU - they are an upright constitution hardworking
organization which supports all those things and you too. Not that
you are grateful.
So in addition to being a nasty sinner, you also hate our
constitution. If you hate this country and it's heart so much, why
don't you leave?

Overall Record

President Bush does not vote on issues before Congress but, based on his
publicly stated positions, would receive an 85% conservative rating from the
American Conservative Union if he did.

John Kerry, according to the highly respected, politically-neutral National
Journal rates Kerry the most liberal U. S. Senator in 2003 -- more liberal
than Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton.

LOL, not even that 'highly respected politically-neutral National
Journal agreed with the 'most liberal' rating that Republican liars
have been spitting out. They disavowed that statement publically.
Lying again? You are going to Hell, aren't you?

Questions:

1) Do you want marriage re-defined?
Are you FOR marriage between one man and one woman - THIS IS ONE OF THERE
CLEAREST CHOICES BETWEEN THE TWO CANDIDATES, AND IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE
WHICH ONE IS PRESIDENT ON THIS ISSUE.

Bush ain't supporting your idea. He says he does, but when push comes
to shove, the man sits in the white house and does nothing. Oh - he
likes you to think he might do something, but then - what would you
need him for?

Do you think condemning a woman to death when the procedure is
medically nescessary (as this bill did) is not an abomination?

3) Is Terrorism an issue with you?
If it is, there is a clear choice again. Kerry will negotiate with
terrorists and rely on countries like France to make his decisions. WE KNOW
BUSH WILL NEVER GIVE IN TO A TERRORIST, AND WE KNOW RUSSIA WON'T, ISRAEL
WON'T, BRITAIN WON'T, AND HOPEFULLY SOON, THE REST OF THE WORLD WON'T

Terrorism is a practice, not an enemy. Americans used terrorism to
start the revolutionary war when we split from Britain. What did you
think dumping that tea into the Boston harbor was? A real tea party?
You are could not have come to that conclusion about Kerry's view if
you had actually listened to him and I find your statement unethical
at best, a lie and a sin of your own religion.

4) SINCE KERRY KEEPS BRING UP PRESIDENT REAGAN, LET'S SEE THE
DIFFERENCE....
KERRY VOTED AGAINST PRESIDENT REAGAN ON EVERY MAJOR SOCIAL AND DEFENSE
ISSUE.
KERRY CALLED PRESIDENT REAGAN ONE OF THE MOST IMMORAL PRESIDENTS, EVER.
President Bush would agree with President Reagan on almost EVERY MAJOR
SOCIAL AND DEFENSE ISSUE.

No Bush hasn't agreed with Reagan on every thing. Not hardly. And
both pushed horrible economics that only helped rich corporations.

The religious difference between the two is that Kerry is Catholic and Bush
is Protestant.

But the religious difference regarding denominational affiliation is not
what is important in eternity's eye. What is most significant is the
spiritual difference between the two.

Kerry is a renegade Catholic. For one, he insists in desecrating Communion
by defying scriptural truths. Specifically, Kerry endorses killing babies AS
THEY ARE 1/2 OUT OF THE WOMB. That's against divine revelation. While
championing murdering unborn infants, Kerry places in his mouth the sacred
elements representing the death of Christ. That is sacrilege. Therefore, on
that one issue alone, Kerry is not only a horrible Catholic but not at all a
Christian, Suffice it to say that Kerry has no regard for biblical ethics.
Instead, he finds it most opportunistic to write his own religion, an
appalling current fad among too many churchgoers.

You are could not have come to that conclusion about Kerry's view if
you had actually listened to him and I find your statement unethical
at best, a lie and a sin of your own religion.

Bush on the other hand is a devout Christian in that he seeks to understand
the biblical morality, then live it. He, like us all, is not perfect. He,
being mortal, has his share of flaws. Let that believer without flaw cast
the first stone at the United States President. Unfortunately, it appears
frequently that the Democrats, human like the rest of us, demand perfection
from the President while not able to live out perfection themselves. The
same can be said for the liberal press. Nevertheless, Bush of all persons
understands his shortcomings, yet attempts to live out Christ in his daily
affairs.

Bush is a liar just like you. No wonder you like him.

Bush depends on faithfulness to worship for his soul strength. He also has
let it be known without apology that he regards the Bible as his favorite
reading. Further, he not only regards the Bible as such but opens it daily
for spiritual inspiration and direction. His wife joins him in like
dedication.

Bush has already been outed on that daily bible opening. He's a liar.

Bush prays. He has stated that over and over again, not in boasting, but
because he has been asked by reporters as to his prayer life. When asked,
Bush responds that he depends upon the Holy Spirit for moment-by-moment
encouragement as well as wisdom in fulfilling his duties.

So we have two persons running for the highest office in the country. One is
a self-styled religionist of the most liberal and apostate expression. The
other is a devout believer who seeks, as best he can, to live out the Spirit
of Jesus. That's the main difference between these two candidates - one a
sincere Christian and the other a desecrating churchgoer.

You are could not have come to that conclusion about Kerry's view if
you had actually listened to him and I find your statement unethical
at best, a lie and a sin of your own religion.

According to Scripture, the sincere believer, though flawed in being a
damaged human being, is smiled upon by God. That individual comes upon the
divine favor. However, according to the same Scripture, the rebellious soul
who seeks his own religious convenience apart from the divine dictate is not
only displeasing to the Almighty but is in soul danger of the divine wrath.
Kerry says we should seek to follow God, Bush "let's his deeds" speak for
themselves.

Your deeds speak for themselves. You lie and like liars. You want
this country to continue to be damaged by the greatest liar that ever
was.

http://www.republicanandproud.com/spiritual_difference_between_bus.htm

Most teenagers now believe oral sex is not sex....

Now there's a bunch of assumptions that I know you have no basis for.

Thank you Democrats like Kerry and Clinton, and thanks to them,
IRRESPONSIBLE LACK OF MORALS HAVE HELPED ADD TO THE MORAL DECAY OF THIS
COUNTRY.

A VOTE FOR KERRY IS A VOTE AGAINST GOD'S PEOPLE AND GOD'S SPIRITUAL LAWS.

Quote the sinner who is going to hell.
.

User: "j w"
Title: Re: God and Sex	23 Oct 2004 05:39:03 PM

x-no-archive: yes
On 23 Oct 2004 14:50:11 -0500,

(Kate ) wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:39:32 GMT, "Healed from Diabetes by Jesus
Christ" <info2day@bigfoot.com> wrote:

"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...

MrPepper11 wrote:
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man.

Bush gets mad when anyone asks him what biblical verse he read that
day after stating that he does that every day.

What a ridiculous, arrogant question. What business is it of yours or
mine or anyone else's what his devotions are like?

Bush doesn't know the bible sections he supposedly went to some 2 week
seminar on and studied.

"... Judge not..." apparently doesn't apply to you.

Obviously Bush is just saying that he is real religous when what he is
really doing is just faking it so all you Christians would support
him.

I have personal knowledge that GWB is born again. I do NOT have
personal knowledge that YOu are born again.

c.. President Bush believes choosing life is the basis of all the
difficult social political issues. John Kerry believes politics is the
basis for every decision regarding life.

He has promised to go after terrorists by any and all means. It is not
his fault when the militants who hate their own people choose to stage
their attacks from highly populated areas.
Hitler also used Germans children as human shields, which is where the
Godless Muslims got the idea.
The militant Muslim murderers figure if they can force us to kill
enough innocents ( I note you fail to mention all the civilians the
militants kill, like dozens of men and women standing in line to sign
up for police training)
The militant Muslim murderers figure if they can force us to kill
enough innocents, they can win the war merely by making us look bad.
GWB has assured them it's not going to happen, so now they simply
murder civilians and decapitate innocent people merely for the fun of
it. Those whom you defend are the lowest of beasts.
They have no morals, nor do you when you defend them.

You are could not have come to that conclusion about Kerry's view if
you had actually listened to him and I find your statement unethical
at best, a lie and a sin of your own religion.

d.. President Bush believes abortion is wrong and is not a political
question. John Kerry believes politics should be the basis of resolving
abortion questions.

You are could not have come to that conclusion about Kerry's view if
you had actually listened to him and I find your statement unethical
at best, a lie and a sin of your own religion.

Then you are incorrect.

Marriage Amendment, Marriage defined to be between one man and one woman

President Bush favors
John Kerry opposed (Both in debate and previous votes)

Partial-Birth Abortion

President Bush is opposed
John Kerry favors (Both in debate and previous votes)

Partial Birth abortion illegality at the expense of the woman when she
is in medical need is an abomination and a sign of hatred of women.

The offense of PBA is that there is no such provision that she can
only abort a fetus for health reasons. That issue was debated for some
time. The conclusion that was reached was that since no two cases
would be alike, it would be presumptuous of the govt to "arbitrarily
impose guidelines", and it was decided and written into law and signed
that whatever the reason, if a woman could get her doctor to agree to
terminate her viable child, she could have it aborted while it was
being born.
As a result, women are now free to shop around until they find a
doctor willing to kill their new baby for a $$$$$.
If you read the PBA, it is "carte blanche" sayonara for the unborn.
I

think Jesus would have found your support of it most disgusting.

Perhaps you should truly investigate what the PBA law actually ways.
It allows a woman to abort her viable child for no reason beyond she
feels like it. Note also that even if she is married, the father has
NO say until the woman decides to give birth to his child.
Like happened in my case. My wife wasn't supposed to be able to get
pregnant. Well, 2 years into the marriage, she is pregnant. Then she
tells me she'll never be able to carry it to term. she did. In the
midst of all that, we found ourselves at a clinic for pre-natal care.
When we first got there, 6 weeks in, I was told to leave the room for
5 minutes, at which time she was encouraged and even urged to abort my
child. I was only told what the discussion had been about AFTER she
unilaterally decided to have our child. When I objected, I was told
that "no clinic in America is authorized to get the father's
permission to carry the child. Whether the mother carries the child or
not is HER DECISION ALONE."
And if you don't believe me, check at your local charity
clinic/hospital. If your clinic expects federal funding, they must
refuse the father any say in whether the child is brought to term.

Restoring voluntary prayer in the public schools

President Bush Favors
John Kerry is Opposed

That's an outright lie. As you well know, voluntary prayer in public
schools has always been legal and available

Not true. That would depend on what state you're in. When I was in
high school in Maryland in the mid-60s is when prayer was outlawed. We
were given 10 seconds of "silence." Period.
as long as it isn't

promoted by the government staff and it doesn't interfere with class
time.

For us, the prayer and the Pledge took place in "Home Room." That's
normally 30 minutes before classes.

Another sin. You are an evil person, aren't you? Does your child
know you lie so often?

Assault on Mel Gibson for making film about Christ

President Bush supports Gibson
John Kerry participated in Left's assault on Gibson, suggesting possible
anti-Semitism even though Kerry had not seen the film.

Now that's just silly and based on nothing.

Assault on boy Scouts for belief in God and not allowing Homosexual

Scout Leaders
President Bush supports Boy Scouts' stand
John Kerry opposes boy Scouts' stand

More silliness and outright lie. Boy, you are not a good upstanding
person are you?

Asking for God's blessing on America

President Bush often asks God to bless America in his speeches
John Kerry attacks Bush for mentioning God so often

As well he should. Bush uses religion to divide rather than unite.

Since our nation was founded on
1. freedom of speech
2. freedom of religion
3. Christian concepts
and since MOST Americans identify themselves as Christians, this is
truly an issue that is decided by the majority. The majority are not
offended.
If this issue bothers you so much, perhaps you'd listen to the
President less in the future.
You wish to express YOUR freedoms of religion and speech; those
freedoms do not get left outside the door of the Oval Office.

Judges

Funny how when I was in my 20s and 30s, "abortion and "choice" were
NOT to be used as a litmus test. Whether someone was pro-abortion or
pro-life wasn't to even be a consideration. here we are 30 years
later, and now if one openly announces he / she is "pro-life", that
somehow disqualifies one for public service. It's happening OPENLY in
Washington.
No litmus is allowed for pro-life, because the pro-abortion litmus
test has taken center stage.
H Y P O C R I T I C A L

More lies. There's nothing anti-Christian, anti-god or anti-family
about the ACLU -

LOL!!! And what planet are you on again?
The ACLU is TOTALLY anti-Christian, anti-Semitic.
they are an upright constitution hardworking

organization which supports all those things and you too. Not that
you are grateful.

LOL!!!
I called them a few years ago about parenting issues, and I asked them
when they planned to start a campaign to fight for "Parent's Rights."
They have no such plan, because they want the state to have ultimate
control over our children, which is how it is today.
I told them I was being railroaded, they asked me if I had an
attorney, and I said no, I had a PD. They said, "then you have an
attorney." I pleaded with them. They asked me who I supported for
Governor, President, and what party I was affiliated with. I told
them; they hung up on me. I had supplied the wrong answer. Wrong party
affiliation, I didn't like their candidates, and I was on the wrong
side of their issues.
The ACLU gets VERY picky about who they help. And if you are to the
right of far left, for get it.
Note how they will fight for the right to end a life (abortion,
euthanasia), but they will rarely fight to protect life.

So in addition to being a nasty sinner, you also hate our
constitution. If you hate this country and it's heart so much, why
don't you leave?

Overall Record

LOL, not even that 'highly respected politically-neutral National
Journal agreed with the 'most liberal' rating that Republican liars
have been spitting out.

Oh! NOW it comes out! "If you' re a Republican, you're a liar!"
One slight correction, son.
"If you are a politician, you are a liar."
They disavowed that statement publicly.

Lying again? You are going to Hell, aren't you?

Do you think condemning a woman to death when the procedure is
medically nescessary (as this bill did) is not an abomination?

PBA has NOTHING to do with saving a woman's life when her pregnancy is
killing her.
There is no law against that procedure.
PBA has EVERYTHING to do with killing viable children in the process
of being born, which the PBA legalized.
If you look at the bill, there is NO provision for the "health issues
of the mother."

3) Is Terrorism an issue with you?
If it is, there is a clear choice again. Kerry will negotiate with
terrorists

How do you negotiate with terrorists who behead innocent people?
Terrorists who murder people by the score merely for the crime of
standing in line to apply for the job of reconstructing Iraq?
There is no negotiating with people whose ONLY goal is to drive
freedom from their land and sink it back into the stone age under
Muslim warlord rule.
"We will never give in to punks and thugs."
Rather than sitting down trying to be reasonable, these punks with AK
47s behead innocent people while wearing masks, those gutless wussies.
And enough of our troops understand that fact that your propaganda
falls on deaf ears.
IF this punk is so fearless, why is he hiding? He isn't seeking
Iraq's liberation! He is seeking to enslave Iraq, and he could care
less about the body count.
and rely on countries like France to make his decisions.
If you had missed it, the Europeans have already been asked repeatedly
by media executives and 3rd party negotiators, if there will be any
chance of help from Europe if John Kerry wins.
Russia, China, Germany, France, all the big one, UNANIMOUSLY have
stated for the record, "we didn't help George, and we won't help
John."
Europe WILL NOT BE FURTHER INVOLVED. And if you think back to WWII,
they wouldn't even defend themselves from Hitler. Until America
entered the war, Europe's policy was appeasement.
And WWII proved to America that "appeasement" doesn't work. The other
guy will not just take a larger slice of pie; he will simply demand
the entire pie.
WE KNOW

BUSH WILL NEVER GIVE IN TO A TERRORIST, AND WE KNOW RUSSIA WON'T, ISRAEL
WON'T, BRITAIN WON'T, AND HOPEFULLY SOON, THE REST OF THE WORLD WON'T

Terrorism is a practice, not an enemy.

Rubbish.
Americans used terrorism to

start the revolutionary war when we split from Britain.

Rubbish. Now you are anti-American, and you are distorting history.
What did you

think dumping that tea into the Boston harbor was? A real tea party?

Give me a break. It was an early American political statement, nothing
more. As I recall, not one shot was fired. I seem to recall some lore
about someone falling and breaking a leg, and someone fell into the
bay and drowned.
That was the sum total of the casualties.
And I don't know what YOU have heard about the "Boston Tea Party", but
it was merely a political protest by the colonists. The British were
looking for some way to
1. hurt the colonists in the wallet
2. raise money for the Motherland
The colonists had enough abuse from the crown, so they basically said,
"here's what you can do with your tea, King!" And they dumped the tea
off the ship into the harbor.

You are could not have come to that conclusion about Kerry's view if
you had actually listened to him and I find your statement unethical
at best, a lie and a sin of your own religion.

What are you ? A parrot?

Typing in all caps is Internet speak for shouting. Kindly stop
shouting.

No Bush hasn't agreed with Reagan on every thing. Not hardly. And
both pushed horrible economics that only helped rich corporations.

Bull. Reagan produced one of the most booming economies in memory.
Bush is practicing a modified version of Reaganomics. It worked for
Reagan, and it's working now. At least for those who don't want the
government to provide handouts for the rest of our lives.

Oh yet it is. One is a practicing Christian who is open about his
faith in Christ. I have yet to hear Kerry say he's a Christian. All he
admits is to being a "Catholic." They are not synonymous.
What is most significant is the

spiritual difference between the two.

And it looks like an impassable cavern.
jw
yawn snip
God bless!
j w
.

User: "Jim Ledford"
Title: Re: God and Sex	23 Oct 2004 06:39:06 PM

"j w

[....]

"... Judge not..." apparently doesn't apply to you.

[....]

They have no morals, nor do you when you defend them.

[....]
Lord Jesus thank you for the opening of my eyes.
Jim Ledford
.

User: "jeffc"
Title: Re: God and Sex	26 Oct 2004 02:20:44 PM

"j w @yahoo.com>" <john_w<no> wrote in message
news:ikjln0p2oad2od8jpe79ttrh154uorhk4l@4ax.com...

Bush gets mad when anyone asks him what biblical verse he read that
day after stating that he does that every day.

What a ridiculous, arrogant question. What business is it of yours or
mine or anyone else's what his devotions are like?

It's ours, when he makes a public spectacle about it.
.

User: "j w"
Title: Re: God and Sex	28 Oct 2004 02:33:10 AM

x-no-archive; yes
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:20:44 -0400, "jeffc" <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)

"j w @yahoo.com>" <john_w<no> wrote in message
news:ikjln0p2oad2od8jpe79ttrh154uorhk4l@4ax.com...

Bush gets mad when anyone asks him what biblical verse he read that
day after stating that he does that every day.

What a ridiculous, arrogant question. What business is it of yours or
mine or anyone else's what his devotions are like?

It's ours, when he makes a public spectacle about it.

ALL you are saying it that you are utterly intolerant of anyone who
believes.
You feel free to speak your peace, but you don't allow anyone else to.
jw

God bless!
j w
.

User: "jeffc"
Title: Re: God and Sex	28 Oct 2004 11:27:44 AM

"j w @yahoo.com>" <john_w<no> wrote in message
news:t381o0pums0n5dfej3he4hrt1qpemjaih4@4ax.com...

x-no-archive; yes
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:20:44 -0400, "jeffc" <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)

"j w @yahoo.com>" <john_w<no> wrote in message
news:ikjln0p2oad2od8jpe79ttrh154uorhk4l@4ax.com...

Bush gets mad when anyone asks him what biblical verse he read that
day after stating that he does that every day.

What a ridiculous, arrogant question. What business is it of yours or
mine or anyone else's what his devotions are like?

It's ours, when he makes a public spectacle about it.

ALL you are saying it that you are utterly intolerant of anyone who
believes.

I think you can't follow a simple conversation or train of thought. The point
in question is, what business of ours is it what Bush's devotion is? The answer
is, he tried to make it our business, by telling everyone about his hypocritical
points of view all the time. He WANTS to make it our business. He WANTS us to
think he's a Christian.
.

User: "Pastor Dave"
Title: Re: God and Sex	23 Oct 2004 09:34:59 AM

On 23 Oct 2004 05:05:57 -0700, while wondering if all
people love cupcakes,

(MrPepper11)
yodeled:

New York Times
October 23, 2004

God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

So when God made homosexuals who fall deeply, achingly in love with
each other, did he goof?

The fact is, that God made everything good. Since the
Fall and the Flood, lots of things have gone wrong.
Your question is like asking if God goofed because
people are born with Down Syndrome. According to your
logic, it's something that should be celebrated.

In any case, do we really want to make Paul our lawgiver?

Each and every example you cited, can be demonstrated
to be against homosexual activities. As for Paul, you
either believe the Bible, or you don't. A pick and
choose method is not valid, as it leads to 6 billion
different Bible, since everyone will pick parts that
others don't.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/1stcentury/
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof,
for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly
furnished unto all good works." - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
"The fact of evolution is the backbone of biology
and biology is thus in the peculiar position of
being a science founded on an unproved theory.
Is it then science, or faith? Belief in the
theory of evolution is thus exactly parallel to
belief in special creation. Both are concepts
which believers know to be true, but neither,
up to the present, has been capable of proof.
- L. Harrison Matthews, FRS, Introduction to
the 1971 edition of Charles Darwin's Origin
of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or
the Preservation of Favored Races in the
Struggle for Life
.

User: "Healed from Diabetes by Jesus Christ"
Title: Re: God and Sex	23 Oct 2004 09:12:54 AM

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message =
news:57cfd534.0410230405.1eda8e4@posting.google.com...
Anyone even attempting to use the Bible, Old or New Testament, to =
justify immoral sex, is no different than using passages to claim God =
allows ANY murder for ANY reason.
Jesus came to set us free from the law, to "NATURALLY FOLLOW ALL =
SPIRITUAL LAWS, not to allow people to live lawlessly, and until you =
understand that, any "logic" that you use to try to twist scripture is a =
TOTAL WASTE OF TIME.
Spiritual differences between President Bush and Senator Kerry
Christians must go to the polls, and you can encourage them to look at =
the important issues: =20
If you agree these are the issues, please CUT/COPY AND SEND this to =
EVERYONE YOU KNOW. If you don't agree, please feel free to reply and =
send me any corrections you feel are important. The whole country =
appears to be dependent on your ability to get Christians out to =
vote....
Spiritual differences between President Bush and Senator Kerry
a.. John Kerry goes to church twice as often during campaign years, =
obviously, for political reasons.=20
b.. President Bush believes he is a child of God that has become =
President of the United States. John Kerry believes he is a politician =
who happens to be Catholic.=20
c.. President Bush believes choosing life is the basis of all the =
difficult social political issues. John Kerry believes politics is the =
basis for every decision regarding life.=20
d.. President Bush believes abortion is wrong and is not a political =
question. John Kerry believes politics should be the basis of resolving =
abortion questions.

Marriage Amendment, Marriage defined to be between one man and one =

woman
President Bush favors
John Kerry opposed (Both in debate and previous votes)

Partial-Birth Abortion=20

President Bush is opposed=20
John Kerry favors (Both in debate and previous votes)

Restoring voluntary prayer in the public schools=20

President Bush Favors=20
John Kerry is Opposed=20

Assault on Mel Gibson for making film about Christ=20

President Bush supports Gibson=20
John Kerry participated in Left's assault on Gibson, suggesting possible =
anti-Semitism even though Kerry had not seen the film.=20

Assault on boy Scouts for belief in God and not allowing Homosexual =

Scout Leaders=20
President Bush supports Boy Scouts' stand=20
John Kerry opposes boy Scouts' stand=20

Asking for God's blessing on America=20

President Bush often asks God to bless America in his speeches=20
John Kerry attacks Bush for mentioning God so often=20

Judges=20

President bush says "We need common-sense judges who believe our rights =
are derived from God."=20
John Kerry insists on judges who support the ACLU's radical =
anti-Christian, anti-God, anti-family agenda. John Kerry is insistent on =
blocking President Bush's federal judge appointments.=20

Overall Record=20

President Bush does not vote on issues before Congress but, based on his =
publicly stated positions, would receive an 85% conservative rating from =
the American Conservative Union if he did.=20
John Kerry, according to the highly respected, politically-neutral =
National Journal rates Kerry the most liberal U. S. Senator in 2003 -- =
more liberal than Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton.=20
Questions:
1) Do you want marriage re-defined?
Are you FOR marriage between one man and one woman - THIS IS ONE OF =
THERE CLEAREST CHOICES BETWEEN THE TWO CANDIDATES, AND IT WILL MAKE A =
DIFFERENCE WHICH ONE IS PRESIDENT ON THIS ISSUE.
2) Do you think killing a baby, who is in the process of being =
delivered (with the head out of the womb), should be legal ("Partial =
Birth Killing")
Again, a very clear difference, and this will make a difference if (and =
more likely) when the next President nominates a Supreme Court Justice, =
as these "PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION" cases will be heard by the Supreme =
Court in the next few years.
3) Is Terrorism an issue with you? =20
If it is, there is a clear choice again. Kerry will negotiate with =
terrorists and rely on countries like France to make his decisions. WE =
KNOW BUSH WILL NEVER GIVE IN TO A TERRORIST, AND WE KNOW RUSSIA WON'T, =
ISRAEL WON'T, BRITAIN WON'T, AND HOPEFULLY SOON, THE REST OF THE WORLD =
WON'T
4) SINCE KERRY KEEPS BRING UP PRESIDENT REAGAN, LET'S SEE THE =
DIFFERENCE....
KERRY VOTED AGAINST PRESIDENT REAGAN ON EVERY MAJOR SOCIAL AND =
DEFENSE ISSUE. =20
KERRY CALLED PRESIDENT REAGAN ONE OF THE MOST IMMORAL PRESIDENTS, =
EVER.
President Bush would agree with President Reagan on almost EVERY =
MAJOR SOCIAL AND DEFENSE ISSUE.
Alan Gluck
5138 Marlin Way
Oxnard, Ca 93035
805 985 7471 - Ventura Office
805 444 0295 - Cell
=20
The religious difference between the two is that Kerry is Catholic and =
Bush is Protestant.
But the religious difference regarding denominational affiliation is not =
what is important in eternity's eye. What is most significant is the =
spiritual difference between the two.
Kerry is a renegade Catholic. For one, he insists in desecrating =
Communion by defying scriptural truths. Specifically, Kerry endorses =
killing babies AS THEY ARE 1/2 OUT OF THE WOMB. That's against divine =
revelation. While championing murdering unborn infants, Kerry places in =
his mouth the sacred elements representing the death of Christ. That is =
sacrilege. Therefore, on that one issue alone, Kerry is not only a =
horrible Catholic but not at all a Christian, Suffice it to say that =
Kerry has no regard for biblical ethics. Instead, he finds it most =
opportunistic to write his own religion, an appalling current fad among =
too many churchgoers.
Bush on the other hand is a devout Christian in that he seeks to =
understand the biblical morality, then live it. He, like us all, is not =
perfect. He, being mortal, has his share of flaws. Let that believer =
without flaw cast the first stone at the United States President. =
Unfortunately, it appears frequently that the Democrats, human like the =
rest of us, demand perfection from the President while not able to live =
out perfection themselves. The same can be said for the liberal press. =
Nevertheless, Bush of all persons understands his shortcomings, yet =
attempts to live out Christ in his daily affairs.
Bush depends on faithfulness to worship for his soul strength. He also =
has let it be known without apology that he regards the Bible as his =
favorite reading. Further, he not only regards the Bible as such but =
opens it daily for spiritual inspiration and direction. His wife joins =
him in like dedication.=20
Bush prays. He has stated that over and over again, not in boasting, but =
because he has been asked by reporters as to his prayer life. When =
asked, Bush responds that he depends upon the Holy Spirit for =
moment-by-moment encouragement as well as wisdom in fulfilling his =
duties.
So we have two persons running for the highest office in the country. =
One is a self-styled religionist of the most liberal and apostate =
expression. The other is a devout believer who seeks, as best he can, to =
live out the Spirit of Jesus. That's the main difference between these =
two candidates - one a sincere Christian and the other a desecrating =
churchgoer.
According to Scripture, the sincere believer, though flawed in being a =
damaged human being, is smiled upon by God. That individual comes upon =
the divine favor. However, according to the same Scripture, the =
rebellious soul who seeks his own religious convenience apart from the =
divine dictate is not only displeasing to the Almighty but is in soul =
danger of the divine wrath.
Kerry says we should seek to follow God, Bush "let's his deeds" speak =
for themselves.
http://www.republicanandproud.com/spiritual_difference_between_bus.htm
Most teenagers now believe oral sex is not sex....
Thank you Democrats like Kerry and Clinton, and thanks to them, =
IRRESPONSIBLE LACK OF MORALS HAVE HELPED ADD TO THE MORAL DECAY OF THIS =
COUNTRY.
A VOTE FOR KERRY IS A VOTE AGAINST GOD'S PEOPLE AND GOD'S SPIRITUAL =
LAWS.
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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"MrPepper11" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:MrPepper11@go.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>MrPepper11@go.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
wrote in message=20
</FONT><A =
href=3D"news:57cfd534.0410230405.1eda8e4@posting.google.com"><FONT=20
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>news:57cfd534.0410230405.1eda8e4@posting.google.com</FONT></A><F=
ONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyone even attempting to use the =
Bible, Old or New=20
Testament, to justify immoral sex, is no different than using passages =
to claim=20
God allows ANY murder for ANY reason.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jesus came to set us free from the law, =
to=20
"NATURALLY FOLLOW ALL SPIRITUAL LAWS, not to allow people to live =
lawlessly, and=20
until you understand that, any "logic" that you use to try to twist =
scripture is=20
a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D4><STRONG><FONT size=3D1>
<P>Spiritual differences between President Bush and Senator=20
Kerry</FONT></STRONG></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4><STRONG>Christians must go to the =
polls, and you=20
can encourage them to look at the important issues:  =20
</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4><STRONG>If you agree these are the =
issues, please=20
CUT/COPY AND SEND this to EVERYONE YOU KNOW.  If you don't =
agree,=20
please feel free to reply and send me any corrections you feel are=20
important.  The whole country appears to be dependent on your =
ability to=20
get Christians out to vote....</STRONG></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D4><STRONG>Spiritual=20
differences between President Bush and Senator =
Kerry</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<UL>
<LI><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>John Kerry goes to church twice as =
often during=20
campaign years, obviously, for political reasons.</FONT>=20
<LI><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>President Bush believes he is a child =
of God that=20
has become President of the United States.  </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>John Kerry believes he is a politician who happens to be=20
Catholic.</FONT>=20
<LI><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>President Bush believes choosing life =
is the basis=20
of all the difficult social political issues.  </FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>John Kerry believes politics is the basis =
for every=20
decision regarding life.</FONT>=20
<LI><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>President Bush believes abortion is =
wrong and is=20
not a political question.  </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>John Kerry=20
believes politics should be the basis of resolving abortion=20
questions.</FONT></LI></UL>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><EM>> > Marriage Amendment, Marriage defined =
to be=20
between one man and one woman</EM><BR>President Bush favors</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>John Kerry opposed (Both in debate and previous =
votes)</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2><EM>> > Partial-Birth Abortion</EM> <BR>President =
Bush is=20
opposed <BR>John Kerry favors (Both in debate and previous=20
votes)<BR><BR><EM>> >  Restoring voluntary prayer in the =
public=20
schools</EM> <BR>President Bush Favors <BR>John Kerry is=20
Opposed <BR><BR><EM>> > Assault on Mel Gibson for making film =
about=20
Christ</EM> <BR>President Bush supports Gibson <BR>John Kerry=20
participated in Left's assault on Gibson, suggesting possible =
anti-Semitism even=20
though Kerry had not seen the film. <BR><BR>><EM> > Assault =
on boy=20
Scouts for belief in God and not allowing Homosexual Scout=20
Leaders</EM> <BR>President Bush supports Boy Scouts' =
stand <BR>John=20
Kerry opposes boy Scouts' stand <BR><BR><EM>> > Asking for =
God's=20
blessing on America</EM> <BR>President Bush often asks God to bless =
America=20
in his speeches <BR>John Kerry attacks Bush for mentioning God so=20
often <BR><BR><EM>> > Judges</EM> <BR>President bush =
says "We=20
need common-sense judges who believe  our rights are derived from=20
God." <BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>John Kerry insists on judges who support the ACLU's=20
radical anti-Christian, anti-God, anti-family agenda. John Kerry=20
is insistent on blocking President Bush's federal judge =
appointments.=20
<BR><BR><EM>> > Overall Record</EM> <BR>President Bush does =
not vote=20
on issues before Congress but, based on his publicly stated =
positions,=20
would receive an 85% conservative rating from the American=20
Conservative Union if he did. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>John Kerry, according to the highly respected,=20
politically-neutral National Journal rates Kerry the most liberal =
U. S.=20
Senator in 2003 -- more liberal than Ted Kennedy and Hillary =
Clinton.=20
<BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Questions:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>1)  Do you want marriage=20
re-defined?</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Are you FOR marriage between one man =
and one woman=20
- THIS IS ONE OF THERE CLEAREST CHOICES BETWEEN THE TWO CANDIDATES, AND =
IT WILL=20
MAKE A DIFFERENCE WHICH ONE IS PRESIDENT ON THIS ISSUE.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>2)  Do you think killing a =
baby, who is in=20
the process of being delivered (with the head out of the womb), should =
be legal=20
("Partial Birth Killing")</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Again, a very clear difference, =
and this will=20
make a difference if (and more likely) when the next President nominates =
a=20
Supreme Court Justice, as these "PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION" cases will be =
heard by=20
the Supreme Court in the next few years.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3) <EM> Is Terrorism an issue with =
you? =20
</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If it is, there is a clear choice =
again. =20
Kerry will negotiate with terrorists and rely on countries like France =
to make=20
his decisions.  WE KNOW BUSH WILL NEVER GIVE IN TO A TERRORIST, AND =
WE KNOW=20
RUSSIA WON'T, ISRAEL WON'T, BRITAIN WON'T, AND HOPEFULLY SOON, THE REST =
OF THE=20
WORLD WON'T</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>4)  <EM>SINCE KERRY KEEPS BRING UP =
PRESIDENT=20
REAGAN, LET'S SEE THE DIFFERENCE....</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>     KERRY VOTED =
AGAINST=20
PRESIDENT REAGAN ON EVERY MAJOR SOCIAL AND DEFENSE ISSUE.  =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>     KERRY CALLED =
PRESIDENT=20
REAGAN ONE OF THE MOST IMMORAL PRESIDENTS, EVER.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>     </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><STRONG>President Bush would agree with President Reagan on =
almost EVERY=20
MAJOR SOCIAL AND DEFENSE ISSUE.</STRONG></FONT></DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Alan Gluck<BR>5138 Marlin =
Way<BR>Oxnard, Ca=20
93035<BR>805 985 7471 - Ventura Office<BR>805 444 0295 - =
Cell</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial> </FONT>=20
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000=20
size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT></DIV></DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana=20
size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#ff0000=20
size=3D3><STRONG><FONT color=3D#0000ff>The religious difference between =
the two is=20
that Kerry is Catholic and Bush is=20
Protestant.</FONT></STRONG><BR></FONT></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>But the religious difference =
regarding=20
denominational affiliation is not what is important in eternity=92s eye. =
What is=20
most significant is the spiritual difference between the =
two.<BR><BR>Kerry is a=20
renegade Catholic. For one, he insists in desecrating Communion by =
defying=20
scriptural truths. Specifically, Kerry endorses killing babies AS =
THEY ARE=20
1/2 OUT OF THE WOMB. That=92s against divine revelation. While =
championing=20
murdering unborn infants, Kerry places in his mouth the sacred elements=20
representing the death of Christ. That is sacrilege. Therefore, on that =
one=20
issue alone, Kerry is not only a horrible Catholic but not at all a =
Christian,=20
Suffice it to say that Kerry has no regard for biblical ethics. Instead, =
he=20
finds it most opportunistic to write his own religion, an appalling =
current fad=20
among too many churchgoers.<BR><BR>Bush on the other hand is a devout =
Christian=20
in that he seeks to understand the biblical morality, then live it. He, =
like us=20
all, is not perfect. He, being mortal, has his share of flaws. Let that =
believer=20
without flaw cast the first stone at the United States President. =
Unfortunately,=20
it appears frequently that the Democrats, human like the rest of us, =
demand=20
perfection from the President while not able to live out perfection =
themselves.=20
The same can be said for the liberal press. Nevertheless, Bush of all =
persons=20
understands his shortcomings, yet attempts to live out Christ in his =
daily=20
affairs.<BR><BR>Bush depends on faithfulness to worship for his soul =
strength.=20
He also has let it be known without apology that he regards the Bible as =
his=20
favorite reading. Further, he not only regards the Bible as such but =
opens it=20
daily for spiritual inspiration and direction. His wife joins him in =
like=20
dedication. <BR><BR>Bush prays. He has stated that over and over again, =
not in=20
boasting, but because he has been asked by reporters as to his prayer =
life. When=20
asked, Bush responds that he depends upon the Holy Spirit for =
moment-by-moment=20
encouragement as well as wisdom in fulfilling his duties.<BR><BR>So we =
have two=20
persons running for the highest office in the country. One is a =
self-styled=20
religionist of the most liberal and apostate expression. The other is a =
devout=20
believer who seeks, as best he can, to live out the Spirit of Jesus. =
That=92s the=20
main difference between these two candidates =97 one a sincere Christian =
and the=20
other a desecrating churchgoer.<BR><BR>According to Scripture, the =
sincere=20
believer, though flawed in being a damaged human being, is smiled upon =
by God.=20
That individual comes upon the divine favor. However, according to the =
same=20
Scripture, the rebellious soul who seeks his own religious convenience =
apart=20
from the divine dictate is not only displeasing to the Almighty but is =
in soul=20
danger of the divine wrath.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>Kerry says we should seek =
to follow God,=20
Bush "let's his deeds" speak for themselves.</FONT></P>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.republicanandproud.com/spiritual_difference_between_bu=
s.htm">http://www.republicanandproud.com/spiritual_difference_between_bus=
..htm</A></FONT></P>
<P align=3Dleft> </P>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000><STRONG>Most =
teenagers now believe=20
oral sex is not sex....</STRONG></FONT></P>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank you Democrats like Kerry and =
Clinton, and=20
thanks to them, IRRESPONSIBLE LACK OF MORALS HAVE HELPED ADD TO THE =
MORAL=20
DECAY OF THIS COUNTRY.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D7><STRONG>A VOTE FOR KERRY=20
IS A VOTE AGAINST GOD'S PEOPLE AND GOD'S SPIRITUAL=20
LAWS.</STRONG></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></=
HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_036F_01C4B8CF.0164C9A0--
.

User: "Jez"
Title: Re: God and Sex	23 Oct 2004 05:12:36 PM

Healed from Diabetes by Jesus Christ wrote:

"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com <mailto:MrPepper11@go.com>> wrote in
message news:57cfd534.0410230405.1eda8e4@posting.google.com...

Anyone even attempting to use the Bible, Old or New Testament, to
justify immoral sex, is no different than using passages to claim God
allows ANY murder for ANY reason.

Garbage deleted.......
Man ! That has got to be the biggest pile of shite I've read for a while !
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
.

User: "towelie"
Title: Re: God and Sex	24 Oct 2004 03:44:08 AM

TV's Healed from Diabetes by Jesus Christ wrote:

"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:57cfd534.0410230405.1eda8e4@posting.google.com...

Anyone even attempting to use the Bible, Old or New Testament, to
justify immoral sex, is no different than using passages to claim God
allows ANY murder for ANY reason.

Jesus came to set us free from the law, to "NATURALLY FOLLOW ALL
SPIRITUAL LAWS, not to allow people to live lawlessly, and until you
understand that, any "logic" that you use to try to twist scripture
is a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME.

Scripture is a total waste of time.

Spiritual differences between President Bush and Senator Kerry

Christians must go to the polls, and you can encourage them to look
at the important issues:

If you agree these are the issues, please CUT/COPY AND SEND this to
EVERYONE YOU KNOW. If you don't agree, please feel free to reply and
send me any corrections you feel are important. The whole country
appears to be dependent on your ability to get Christians out to
vote....

Spiritual differences between President Bush and Senator Kerry
a.. John Kerry goes to church twice as often during campaign years,
obviously, for political reasons.

I recently read that Dumbs rarely if ever attends church since moving to
Washington. Not that it matters, but your hypocrisy is noted.

b.. President Bush believes he is a child of God that has become
President of the United States. John Kerry believes he is a
politician who happens to be Catholic.

Dumbs is delusional if he "believes" that. Kerry is indeed a politician who
happens to be Catholic.

c.. President Bush believes choosing life is the basis of all the
difficult social political issues. John Kerry believes politics is
the basis for every decision regarding life.

My irony meter is getting quite a workout.

d.. President Bush believes abortion is wrong and is not a
political question. John Kerry believes politics should be the basis
of resolving abortion questions.

Marriage Amendment, Marriage defined to be between one man and one
woman

President Bush favors
John Kerry opposed (Both in debate and previous votes)

The proposed amendment is nothing but a political ploy by the GOP.

Partial-Birth Abortion

President Bush is opposed
John Kerry favors (Both in debate and previous votes)

No, John Kerry does not "favor" any kind of abortion. He thinks it should
be a matter of individual choice. Big difference.

Restoring voluntary prayer in the public schools

President Bush Favors
John Kerry is Opposed

Voluntary prayer has never and can never be removed from any place. You're
a liar.

Assault on Mel Gibson for making film about Christ

President Bush supports Gibson
John Kerry participated in Left's assault on Gibson, suggesting
possible anti-Semitism even though Kerry had not seen the film.

So? The movie was indeed chock full of anti-Semitism.

Assault on boy Scouts for belief in God and not allowing Homosexual
Scout Leaders

President Bush supports Boy Scouts' stand
John Kerry opposes boy Scouts' stand

Dumbo is wrong, Kerry is right. Discrimination is wrong. Are you trying
to prove Kerry's point or something?

Asking for God's blessing on America

President Bush often asks God to bless America in his speeches
John Kerry attacks Bush for mentioning God so often

Why can't he talk to his imaginary god when he's alone in his closet, like
the bible commands him to?

Judges

President bush says "We need common-sense judges who believe our
rights are derived from God."

Our rights are derived from the Constitution. This is not (yet) a
theocracy.

John Kerry insists on judges who support the ACLU's radical
anti-Christian, anti-God, anti-family agenda. John Kerry is insistent
on blocking President Bush's federal judge appointments.

Strawman, and a lie to boot.

Overall Record

President Bush does not vote on issues before Congress but, based on
his publicly stated positions, would receive an 85% conservative
rating from the American Conservative Union if he did.

And that's something to brag about?

John Kerry, according to the highly respected, politically-neutral
National Journal rates Kerry the most liberal U. S. Senator in 2003
-- more liberal than Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton.

That's a good quality of the Senator. He'll make an outstanding President.

Questions:

1) Do you want marriage re-defined?
Are you FOR marriage between one man and one woman - THIS IS ONE OF
THERE CLEAREST CHOICES BETWEEN THE TWO CANDIDATES, AND IT WILL MAKE A
DIFFERENCE WHICH ONE IS PRESIDENT ON THIS ISSUE.

There is little or no difference in the two candidates' views on gay
marriage. Bush favors tacking this piece of hate-legislation onto the
Constitution. Kerry favors letting the states decide. Both candidates
agree that marriage is M+F.

2) Do you think killing a baby, who is in the process of being
delivered (with the head out of the womb), should be legal ("Partial
Birth Killing")
Again, a very clear difference, and this will make a difference if
(and more likely) when the next President nominates a Supreme Court
Justice, as these "PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION" cases will be heard by the
Supreme Court in the next few years.

3) Is Terrorism an issue with you?
If it is, there is a clear choice again. Kerry will negotiate with
terrorists and rely on countries like France to make his decisions.
WE KNOW BUSH WILL NEVER GIVE IN TO A TERRORIST, AND WE KNOW RUSSIA
WON'T, ISRAEL WON'T, BRITAIN WON'T, AND HOPEFULLY SOON, THE REST OF
THE WORLD WON'T

How do you know what Kerry will do?

Bush on the other hand is a devout Christian in that he seeks to
understand the biblical morality, then live it. He, like us all, is
not perfect. He, being mortal, has his share of flaws.

Not according to him. He hasn't made a single mistake in his bogus
"presidency" that he can remember.

A VOTE FOR KERRY IS A VOTE AGAINST GOD'S PEOPLE AND GOD'S SPIRITUAL
LAWS.

A vote for Bush is a vote against America's future.
--
I'm George W. Bush, and Karl Rove approved this message.
aa #2133
ap #19
.

User: "Dennis Kemmerer"
Title: Re: God and Sex	24 Oct 2004 02:30:27 PM

"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2u18akF23qrs9U1@uni-berlin.de...

TV's Healed from Diabetes by Jesus Christ wrote:

[snip]

Marriage Amendment, Marriage defined to be between one man and one
woman

President Bush favors
John Kerry opposed (Both in debate and previous votes)

The proposed amendment is nothing but a political ploy by the GOP.

It's also a dead issue, but the religionist goons can't bring themselves to
accept that.
[snip]
.

User: "Jim Ledford"
Title: Re: acceptance of what's really important... and the hint was: JesusChrist	24 Oct 2004 03:28:27 PM

Dennis Kemmerer wrote:

[....]

It's also a dead issue, but the religionist goons
can't bring themselves to accept that.

acceptance and focus on the only Living God of Life
is what I am hoping people will bring themselves to.
Lord Jesus Lives! :)
Jim
.

User: "Jez"
Title: Re: acceptance of what's really important... and the hint was: JesusChrist	25 Oct 2004 12:47:18 PM

Jim Ledford wrote:

Dennis Kemmerer wrote:

[....]

It's also a dead issue, but the religionist goons
can't bring themselves to accept that.

acceptance and focus on the only Living God of Life
is what I am hoping people will bring themselves to.

Lord Jesus Lives! :)

Nope, he died some 2000 years ago now.
No-one ever comes back from being dead.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
.

User: "towelie"
Title: Re: acceptance of what's really important... and the hint was: Jesus Christ	24 Oct 2004 05:54:38 PM

TV's Jim Ledford wrote:

Dennis Kemmerer wrote:

[....]

It's also a dead issue, but the religionist goons
can't bring themselves to accept that.

acceptance and focus on the only Living God of Life
is what I am hoping people will bring themselves to.

Don't waste your touch.

Lord Jesus Lives! :)

Prove it.
--
I'm George W. Bush, and Karl Rove approved this message.
aa #2133
ap #19
.

User: "Forotherspub"
Title: Re: God and Sex	24 Oct 2004 10:26:23 PM

You're assuming that he did When the doctor holds up a baby He/she says O its'
a boy or O its' a girl Never its' a lesbian or a homosexual.
Homosexuality is a choice and its' enforcement is governed by the spirit of
homosexuality. Such spirit is not the Spirit of God The Spirt of God is the
spirit of truth and endorses " He who made them in the beginning made them
male and female and what God has joined together let no man put assunder" He
made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.Homosexulaity is a sin but it is no
different than any sin to which the power of God through Jesus Christ cannot
totally liberate the sinner .
It is time to fear God and cease from our own opinions
.

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