| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"MrPepper11" |
| Date: |
23 Oct 2004 07:05:57 AM |
| Object: |
God and Sex |
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
So when God made homosexuals who fall deeply, achingly in love with
each other, did he goof?
That seems implicit in the measures opposing gay marriage on the
ballots of 11 states. All may pass; Oregon is the only state where the
outcome seems uncertain.
Over the last couple of months, I've been researching the question of
how the Bible regards homosexuality. Social liberals tend to be
uncomfortable with religious arguments, but that is the ground on
which political battles are often decided in America - as when a Texas
governor, Miriam "Ma" Ferguson, barred the teaching of foreign
languages about 80 years ago, saying, "If English was good enough for
Jesus Christ, it's good enough for us."
I think it's presumptuous of conservatives to assume that God is on
their side. But since Americans are twice as likely to believe in the
Devil as in evolution, I also think it's stupid of liberals to forfeit
the religious field.
Some scholars, like Daniel Helminiak, author of "What the Bible Really
Says About Homosexuality," argue that the Bible is not anti-gay. I
don't really buy that.
It's true that the story of Sodom is treated by both modern scholars
and by ancient Ezekiel as about hospitality, rather than
homosexuality. In Sodom, Lot puts up two male strangers for the night.
When a lustful mob demands they be handed over, Lot offers his two
virgin daughters instead. After some further unpleasantness, God
destroys Sodom. As Mark Jordan notes in "The Invention of Sodomy in
Christian Theology," it was only in the 11th century that theologians
began to condemn homosexuality as sodomy.
In fact, the most obvious lesson from Sodom is that when you're
attacked by an angry mob, the holy thing to do is to offer up your
virgin daughters.
Still, the traditionalists seem to me basically correct that the Old
Testament does condemn at least male anal sex (scholars disagree about
whether the Hebrew phrasing encompasses other sexual contact). While
homosexuality never made the Top 10 lists of commandments, a plain
reading of the Book of Leviticus is that male anal sex is every bit as
bad as other practices that the text condemns, like wearing a
polyester-and-cotton shirt (Leviticus 19:19).
As for the New Testament, Jesus never said a word about gays, while he
explicitly advised a wealthy man to give away all his assets and
arguably warned against bank accounts ("do not store up for yourselves
treasures on earth").
Likewise, Jesus praises those who make themselves eunuchs for the
Kingdom of Heaven, but conservative Christians rarely lead the way
with self-castration.
Theologians point out that that the Bible is big enough to encompass
gay relationships and tolerance - as well as episodic condemnations of
gays. For example, 1 Samuel can be read as describing gay affairs
between David and Jonathan.
In the New Testament, Matthew and Luke describe how Jesus cured the
beloved servant of a centurion - and some scholars argue that the
wording suggests that the pair were lovers, yet Jesus didn't blanch.
The religious right cites one part of the New Testament that clearly
does condemn male homosexuality - not in Jesus' words, but in Paul's.
The right has a tougher time explaining why lesbians shouldn't marry
because the Bible has no unequivocal condemnation of lesbian sex.
A passage in Romans 1 objects to women engaging in "unnatural" sex,
and this probably does mean lesbian sex, according to Bernadette
Brooten, the author of a fascinating study of early Christian
attitudes toward lesbians. But it's also possible that Paul was
referring to sex during menstruation or to women who are aggressive
during sex.
In any case, do we really want to make Paul our lawgiver? Will we
enforce Paul's instruction that women veil themselves and keep their
hair long? (Note to President Bush: If you want to obey Paul, why
don't you start by veiling Laura and keeping her hair long, and only
then move on to barring gay marriages.)
Given these ambiguities, is there any solution? One would be to
emphasize the sentiment in Genesis that "it is not good for the human
to be alone," and allow gay lovers to marry.
Or there's another solution. Paul disapproves of marriage except for
the sex-obsessed, saying that it is best "to remain unmarried as I
am." So if we're going to cherry-pick biblical phrases and ignore the
central message of love, then perhaps we should just ban marriage
altogether?
.
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| User: "NeoSadist" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 08:32:05 AM |
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MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
So when God made homosexuals who fall deeply, achingly in love with
each other, did he goof?
Prove that He made them that way. He didn't make them that way. God said
we were created in His image to do His will: that's what we were created
for, not to sin. We were created to have a relationship with Almighty God,
not to sin.
http://www.puresimplicity.net/~neosadist/religion/gaychristians/gaychristians.html
That seems implicit in the measures opposing gay marriage on the
ballots of 11 states. All may pass; Oregon is the only state where the
outcome seems uncertain.
My opinion is that we are to be salt and light. It's not always going to be
possible to keep society out of sin, but we should at least try (mainly by
witnessing).
Over the last couple of months, I've been researching the question of
how the Bible regards homosexuality. Social liberals tend to be
uncomfortable with religious arguments, but that is the ground on
which political battles are often decided in America - as when a Texas
governor, Miriam "Ma" Ferguson, barred the teaching of foreign
languages about 80 years ago, saying, "If English was good enough for
Jesus Christ, it's good enough for us."
Jesus Christ didn't speak English: He was a Jew during the Roman occupation
of Israel. Greek and Latin were majority languages, and His native
tongue(s) were probably Hebrew and Aramaic. So no, I doubt He spoke
english while He was on earth. However, He can speak english, being
God....
I think it's presumptuous of conservatives to assume that God is on
their side.
And I think it's presumptuous for others to think that God is only love.
God is also just and righteous, and has condemned homosexuality. Let's not
forget about Lot.
But since Americans are twice as likely to believe in the
Devil as in evolution, I also think it's stupid of liberals to forfeit
the religious field.
Some scholars, like Daniel Helminiak, author of "What the Bible Really
Says About Homosexuality," argue that the Bible is not anti-gay.
It's not "anti-gay", in the sense that it would say that God hates them.
God hates their sin, but loves them, which is why Jesus Christ paid for
their sins, and the sins of all mankind for all eternity. However, to God,
homosexuality and lesbianism are highly offensive, so let us not think that
God's patience and forbearance in the present mean no judging in the
future. God is being nice right now because He wants us to repent and be
saved.
I don't really buy that.
It's true that the story of Sodom is treated by both modern scholars
and by ancient Ezekiel as about hospitality, rather than
homosexuality. In Sodom, Lot puts up two male strangers for the night.
When a lustful mob demands they be handed over, Lot offers his two
virgin daughters instead. After some further unpleasantness, God
destroys Sodom. As Mark Jordan notes in "The Invention of Sodomy in
Christian Theology," it was only in the 11th century that theologians
began to condemn homosexuality as sodomy.
No, God destroyed Sodom for their wickedness, as He Himself said in the
Bible. That included homosexuality, which if you read OT law and
instructions that God gave, is an abomination, and His instructions to the
Jews was to execute the offenders, which also included adulterers and
beastiality. The bottom line is that this is what God thinks about those
sins. However, God is being patient with us because He wants us to repent.
Do not kid yourself: God can destroy America for the same thing, but I
think God would rather see people saved.
In fact, the most obvious lesson from Sodom is that when you're
attacked by an angry mob, the holy thing to do is to offer up your
virgin daughters.
No, Lot's actions are never affirmed or condemned. And if he were to offer
them, and the crowd bought into this offer, it would've led to unmarried
sex, which is also a sin. Do not deceive yourself. Even then, ask your
daughters if they think you doing such a thing is right: I'd be willing to
bet that they'd be angry with you for even thinking about it.
Still, the traditionalists seem to me basically correct that the Old
Testament does condemn at least male anal sex (scholars disagree about
whether the Hebrew phrasing encompasses other sexual contact). While
homosexuality never made the Top 10 lists of commandments, a plain
reading of the Book of Leviticus is that male anal sex is every bit as
bad as other practices that the text condemns, like wearing a
polyester-and-cotton shirt (Leviticus 19:19).
As for the New Testament, Jesus never said a word about gays, while he
explicitly advised a wealthy man to give away all his assets and
arguably warned against bank accounts ("do not store up for yourselves
treasures on earth").
True.
Likewise, Jesus praises those who make themselves eunuchs for the
Kingdom of Heaven, but conservative Christians rarely lead the way
with self-castration.
True, again.
Theologians point out that that the Bible is big enough to encompass
gay relationships and tolerance - as well as episodic condemnations of
gays. For example, 1 Samuel can be read as describing gay affairs
between David and Jonathan.
Then is "greet one another with a holy kiss" encouraging such as well? No,
now you're reading into it what you want to hear. Their culture was much
different. They'd kiss each other (and don't read into it, it could be a
simple peck on the cheek for all we know), but they'd also tear their
clothes, etc. Don't read into things.
In the New Testament, Matthew and Luke describe how Jesus cured the
beloved servant of a centurion - and some scholars argue that the
wording suggests that the pair were lovers, yet Jesus didn't blanch.
Anyone who suggests that Jesus, who claimed to come "not to destroy the law
and the prophets, but to fulfill", had any sin whatsoever in His life, is
lost. Jesus cannot be God and cannot forgive your sins unless He is
without sin.
The religious right cites one part of the New Testament that clearly
does condemn male homosexuality - not in Jesus' words, but in Paul's.
Paul wasn't writing: God was writing it through Paul. If you're going to be
selective about the author when the Bible itself claims to be written by
"holy men of God" who were moved by God's spirit to write, then you can't
trust any of it, and you're still in your sins.
The right has a tougher time explaining why lesbians shouldn't marry
because the Bible has no unequivocal condemnation of lesbian sex.
Except a couple very poignant prophetical references to sinning nations
being like lesbians.
A passage in Romans 1 objects to women engaging in "unnatural" sex,
and this probably does mean lesbian sex, according to Bernadette
Brooten, the author of a fascinating study of early Christian
attitudes toward lesbians.
No, she's trying to spin it away from her. It says "men with men and women
with women", so it's talking about both. Even then, it is called
unnatural, which is a fact. Homosexuals of both varieties are constantly
trying to debate this topic, but the Bible stands firm in calling it sin.
However, the Bible never says that we should go out bashing these sexual
deviants: we are to love them and to pray for them, and to witness to them.
I'm for a gay and lesbian marriage ban, but I'm also not stupid: society is
increasing in sin. Even if gay/lesbian marriage becomes legal, it still
will not be right in God's eyes.
But it's also possible that Paul was referring to sex during menstruation
or to women who are aggressive during sex.
You're on crack now. The Bible plainly says "In the same way the men also
abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one
another", right after the verse you are talking about, meaning that it
should be a woman with a man, yet they went to a woman for sex, and visa
versa, men should've went to a woman for sex and instead they went to
another man.
In any case, do we really want to make Paul our lawgiver?
Yes. He definitely had the authority, but you forget, God was writing
through him, not Paul writing for his own satisfaction. If you toss out
one passage that you do not like, you show that you do not trust or obey
the Bible itself. If one passage is wrong, what if others are? Can you
trust the Bible then?
I believe every single word in the Bible, point blank. Of course,
KJV/NKJV/NIV/NASB are translations of the texts, so don't get hung up on
that. The bottom line is that the Bible is truth, and every part of it is
truth. To toss out one part is to toss the whole thing out.
Will we
enforce Paul's instruction that women veil themselves and keep their
hair long?
Yes. And no, it could be interpreted as a hat rather than a veil, if you
research American history about the Quakers. Still, if Paul said it, we
should do it, because it's not Paul but God saying it.
(Note to President Bush: If you want to obey Paul, why
don't you start by veiling Laura and keeping her hair long, and only
then move on to barring gay marriages.)
Given these ambiguities, is there any solution?
Uh, yes, since there are no ambiguities. If the Bible says it, we should do
it. We're not perfect, but God forgives.
One would be to
emphasize the sentiment in Genesis that "it is not good for the human
to be alone," and allow gay lovers to marry.
No, that's a horrible paraphrase, and something that denies the simple
truth: right after God said that, HE CREATED WOMAN, not another man. It
was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
Or there's another solution. Paul disapproves of marriage except for
the sex-obsessed, saying that it is best "to remain unmarried as I
am." So if we're going to cherry-pick biblical phrases and ignore the
central message of love, then perhaps we should just ban marriage
altogether?
No, because it is said that God is for marriage between a man and a woman.
However, my honest opinion is to do the right thing, since you cannot prove
that God made you to sin. The alternatives to gay sex are 1) mental
counselling, 2) scripture memorization, and 3) voluntary castration for
those who want to obey the Bible to the extreme. There are countless
people that got over addictions to pornography using the Bible and prayer
as well, so don't tell me it cannot be done.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable,
and praiseworthy ...
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
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| User: "Old Gringo" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 09:30:47 AM |
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MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man. No one knows
what they were smoking when they wrote the Bibles of the world. God
is yours to do with as you wish, and not to do with as your neighbor
wishes.
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
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| User: "Jude" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 11:38:56 AM |
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"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man. No one knows
what they were smoking when they wrote the Bibles of the world. God
is yours to do with as you wish, and not to do with as your neighbor
wishes.
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
.
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| User: "Bob" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 06:10:26 PM |
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"Jude" <cajun@bayou.louisiana> wrote in message
news:3Nved.23400$qH3.20377@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man. No one knows
what they were smoking when they wrote the Bibles of the world. God
is yours to do with as you wish, and not to do with as your neighbor
wishes.
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
If I showed you where it did, you wouldn't believe it anyway, so why
bother.....
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 06:45:57 PM |
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Bob wrote:
"Jude" <cajun@bayou.louisiana> wrote in message
news:3Nved.23400$qH3.20377@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man. No one knows
what they were smoking when they wrote the Bibles of the world. God
is yours to do with as you wish, and not to do with as your neighbor
wishes.
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
If I showed you where it did, you wouldn't believe it anyway, so why
bother.....
Hmmm....good cop-out !
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
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| User: "DOC !" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
24 Oct 2004 11:50:23 AM |
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On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:10:26 -0400, "Bob" <BOB@BOB.BOB> wrote:
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
If I showed you where it did, you wouldn't believe it anyway, so
why
bother.....
--
Bob, please DO show it.
Seriously.
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
24 Oct 2004 04:53:14 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:10:26 -0400, "Bob" <BOB@BOB.BOB> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
"Jude" <cajun@bayou.louisiana> wrote in message
news:3Nved.23400$qH3.20377@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man. No one knows
what they were smoking when they wrote the Bibles of the world. God
is yours to do with as you wish, and not to do with as your neighbor
wishes.
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
If I showed you where it did, you wouldn't believe it anyway, so why
bother.....
There are two sides, because the topic is controversial and the Bible
is NOT crystal clear on the topic, no mater how some wish to read
things in. One could point to the scripture that says we are not to
pollute our bodies...
Until you do some research and find out that in Christ's day, cannabis
was a universally accepted medication, and was in American until the
1950s.
One of the scriptures that seems to allow us the use of cannabis is in
Genesis the first few chapters, wherein God gave us "every
seed-bearing plant."
Simply because cannabis is called/considered a weed by some does not
mean that it didn't hold an honored place in the medicine bag of
ancient doctors, like Dr. Luke.
I believe this is one of those instances that is left to the
individual's conscience.
There was a time when alcohol couldn't even be used in church in
America.
No wine for the Eucharist!
jw
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
God bless!
j w
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| User: "randy" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
24 Oct 2004 09:38:00 AM |
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Check out www.restoredcog.org for a great artical on Sex and the bible
entitled Sex the Missing Dimension check out the other great titles
all free of charge to the public.
randy
"Jude" <cajun@bayou.louisiana> wrote in message news:<3Nved.23400$qH3.20377@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Please don't be spoofed by the ancient writings of man. No one knows
what they were smoking when they wrote the Bibles of the world. God
is yours to do with as you wish, and not to do with as your neighbor
wishes.
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
.
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| User: "Old Gringo" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 11:45:00 AM |
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Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
.
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| User: "Jude" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 11:50:53 AM |
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"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible don't speak
agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know it speaks agin strong wine
but don't say nuthin bout marijuana? I'm bring that there up in the next
church meeting, I am. :)
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
.
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| User: "Old Gringo" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 12:16:58 PM |
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Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible don't speak
agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know it speaks agin strong wine
but don't say nuthin bout marijuana? I'm bring that there up in the next
church meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana was as
popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part of the world.
Remember these are also the people that thought the world was flat
during the time of these ancient writings.
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
.
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| User: "jack_the_mormon" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
27 Oct 2004 02:49:27 PM |
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<snipped for brevity>
Remember these are also the people that thought the world was flat
during the time of these ancient writings.
Actually, the New Testament writers were probably pretty sure the
earth was round-ish:
"Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated
the circumference of the earth "within 50 miles of the present
estimate." [Encyclopedia Brittanica]
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
27 Oct 2004 03:14:26 PM |
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On 27 Oct 2004 12:49:27 -0700,
(jack_the_mormon) wrote:
<snipped for brevity>
Remember these are also the people that thought the world was flat
during the time of these ancient writings.
Actually, the New Testament writers were probably pretty sure the
earth was round-ish:
"Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated
the circumference of the earth "within 50 miles of the present
estimate." [Encyclopedia Brittanica]
Was Eratosthenes a New Testament writer?
"Strike the twos and strike the threes,
The sieve of Eratosthenes.
When the multiples sublime,
The numbers that are left are prime."
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| User: "jack_the_mormon" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
28 Oct 2004 12:03:18 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<0tvvn0l8ln0rig4rchthh1tlbmj79gueel@4ax.com>...
On 27 Oct 2004 12:49:27 -0700,
(jack_the_mormon) wrote:
<snipped for brevity>
Remember these are also the people that thought the world was flat
during the time of these ancient writings.
Actually, the New Testament writers were probably pretty sure the
earth was round-ish:
"Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated
the circumference of the earth "within 50 miles of the present
estimate." [Encyclopedia Brittanica]
Was Eratosthenes a New Testament writer?
Since I don't really know who wrote the New Testament, I couldn't say.
But I doubt it since Eratosthenes lived at least 200 years before the
time the NT was supposedly written.
Given that the NT was created by literate individuals living in what
was the crossroads of the world at that time, the Mediterranean -
where the knowledge of a roundish earth was already common knowledge -
it is most probable that NT writers knew the earth was roundish.
Sure there may have been some quotes like "four corners of the earth"
etc. included in the Bible - but we use similiar colloquialisms today.
When I say "my wife just came back from a trip to the other side of
the world" that doesn't mean I think the earth has "sides". It's a
figure of speech. Most likely the same thing happened with whoever
drummed up the NT.
"Strike the twos and strike the threes,
The sieve of Eratosthenes.
When the multiples sublime,
The numbers that are left are prime."
.
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
27 Oct 2004 04:09:15 PM |
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|
jack_the_mormon <Jack_the_Mormon@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snipped for brevity>
Remember these are also the people that thought the world was flat
during the time of these ancient writings.
Actually, the New Testament writers were probably pretty sure the
earth was round-ish:
"Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated
the circumference of the earth "within 50 miles of the present
estimate." [Encyclopedia Brittanica]
Was Eratosthenes a New Testament writer? I mean their is no doubt that
some cultures and some people knew that the Earth was round, or as you say,
roundish, but it isn't clear that such knowledge was give to, or filtered to
the common folk, or to other cultures.
--
Brigham Young on interracial marriage:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the
white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed
of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This
will always be so."
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: God and Sex |
27 Oct 2004 04:00:41 PM |
|
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jack_the_mormon wrote:
<snipped for brevity>
Remember these are also the people that thought the world was flat
during the time of these ancient writings.
Actually, the New Testament writers were probably pretty sure the
earth was round-ish:
"Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated
the circumference of the earth "within 50 miles of the present
estimate." [Encyclopedia Brittanica]
===>The writers of the Bible followed the biblical idea of the
"world", i.e. a flat earth disk, surrounded by water, covered with
a solid dome on which are affixed the little lights called "stars"
as well as the two big lights.
The "God" of the Bible sits on a throne atop that dome,
when he is not walking around, making big noises.
"Clouds are a hiding place for Him, so that He cannot see;
And He walks on the vault of heaven." (Job 22:14 - NASB)
Amos 9:6
"The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens
And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth"
etc. -- L.
.
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| User: "Jude" |
|
| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 05:14:26 PM |
|
|
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:emwed.8926$Lk3.5667@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible don't speak
agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know it speaks agin strong
wine
but don't say nuthin bout marijuana? I'm bring that there up in the
next
church meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana was as
popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part of the world.
Remember these are also the people that thought the world was flat
during the time of these ancient writings.
Wouldn't you think that the ancient biblical writers of the OT would KNOW
about Opium? They talked a LOT about alcohol. Yes siree, I know aobut the
flat world view.
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
.
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| User: "Old Gringo" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 05:21:08 PM |
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Jude wrote:
Wouldn't you think that the ancient biblical writers of the OT would KNOW
about Opium? They talked a LOT about alcohol. Yes siree, I know aobut the
flat world view.
I am sure they knew about it but it's like Hellmmans Mayonnaise, were
not going to tell Aunt Mary out in Iowa about it.
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
.
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| User: "Jude" |
|
| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 05:29:28 PM |
|
|
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:oPAed.10080$Al3.4171@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
Wouldn't you think that the ancient biblical writers of the OT would
KNOW
about Opium? They talked a LOT about alcohol. Yes siree, I know aobut
the
flat world view.
I am sure they knew about it but it's like Hellmmans Mayonnaise, were
not going to tell Aunt Mary out in Iowa about it.
Yeah. Understood. It just seems odd that they wouldn't mention it to ban
it's use. I guess perhaps they understood the strong ban again achololic
intoxication would include other substances as well. ... Oh well. Thanks
for the chat.
Later.
Jude
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
.
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| User: "Old Gringo" |
|
| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 05:36:58 PM |
|
|
Jude wrote:
Yeah. Understood. It just seems odd that they wouldn't mention it to ban
it's use. I guess perhaps they understood the strong ban again achololic
intoxication would include other substances as well. ... Oh well. Thanks
for the chat.
Later.
Jude
My pleasure.
--
Old Gringo George
Just West Of Nowhere
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
.
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| User: "j w" |
|
| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 05:46:30 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:16:58 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible don't speak
agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know it speaks agin strong wine
but don't say nuthin bout marijuana? I'm bring that there up in the next
church meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana was as
popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part of the world.
Remember these are also the people that thought the world was flat
during the time of these ancient writings.
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
.
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
|
| Title: Re: God and Sex |
23 Oct 2004 07:32:58 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:16:58 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible don't
speak agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know it speaks
agin strong wine but don't say nuthin bout marijuana? I'm bring
that there up in the next church meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana was as
popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part of the world.
Remember these are also the people that thought the world was flat
during the time of these ancient writings.
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
They did, however, believe that bats were birds, and that rabbits chew their
cud.
--
Brigham Young on interracial marriage:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the
white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed
of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This
will always be so."
.
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|
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: God and Sex |
24 Oct 2004 07:00:50 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:32:58 GMT, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> yodeled:
They did, however, believe that bats were birds, and that rabbits chew their
cud.
If God says a bat is a bird, I'll take His word over
yours. You speak according to how man classifies
things. We don't make the rules for God.
As for rabbits, they do indeed chew their cud. Not the
in the exact same way as you're thinking of, but they
do it.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/1stcentury/
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof,
for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly
furnished unto all good works." - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
"The fact of evolution is the backbone of biology
and biology is thus in the peculiar position of
being a science founded on an unproved theory.
Is it then science, or faith? Belief in the
theory of evolution is thus exactly parallel to
belief in special creation. Both are concepts
which believers know to be true, but neither,
up to the present, has been capable of proof.
- L. Harrison Matthews, FRS, Introduction to
the 1971 edition of Charles Darwin's Origin
of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or
the Preservation of Favored Races in the
Struggle for Life
.
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| User: "j w" |
|
| Title: Re: God and Sex |
24 Oct 2004 01:02:15 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:32:58 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:16:58 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible don't
speak agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know it speaks
agin strong wine but don't say nuthin bout marijuana? I'm bring
that there up in the next church meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana was as
popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part of the world.
Remember these are also the people that thought the world was flat
during the time of these ancient writings.
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
They did, however, believe that bats were birds, and that rabbits chew their
cud.
I keep hearing that argument which is no argument. The Bible also
mentions "leviathan, behemoth, and the unicorn."
Could it be that they-- like the "bat" and the "rabbit" referred to
animals that no longer exist? Or animals that NEVER existed on the
North American continent?
There is NO reason to think that what they called "bats" 1000 BC is
what we call bats today. And we are discussing a continent THOUSANDS
of miles and several oceans away.
There is no reason, of course, unless you simply wish to discredit the
Bible for some unfathomable reason.
jw
God bless!
j w
.
|
|
|
| User: "Andrealphus" |
|
| Title: Re: God and Sex |
24 Oct 2004 07:53:42 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:32:58 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:16:58 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible don't
speak agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know it speaks
agin strong wine but don't say nuthin bout marijuana? I'm bring
that there up in the next church meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana was as
popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part of the world.
Remember these are also the people that thought the world was flat
during the time of these ancient writings.
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
They did, however, believe that bats were birds, and that rabbits
chew their cud.
I keep hearing that argument which is no argument. The Bible also
mentions "leviathan, behemoth, and the unicorn."
Which further proves the lack of knowledge the people that wrote the Bible
had.
Could it be that they-- like the "bat" and the "rabbit" referred to
animals that no longer exist? Or animals that NEVER existed on the
North American continent?
Can you prove that this is the case?
There is NO reason to think that what they called "bats" 1000 BC is
what we call bats today. And we are discussing a continent THOUSANDS
of miles and several oceans away.
Now all you have to do is prove your assertion. What do you think they
called bats in 1,000 BCE, Hawks? Doves? Chickens?
--
Brigham Young on interracial marriage:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the
white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed
of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This
will always be so."
.
|
|
|
| User: "j w" |
|
| Title: Re: God and Sex |
24 Oct 2004 04:47:31 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:53:42 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:32:58 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:16:58 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible don't
speak agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know it speaks
agin strong wine but don't say nuthin bout marijuana? I'm bring
that there up in the next church meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana was as
popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part of the world.
Remember these are also the people that thought the world was flat
during the time of these ancient writings.
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
They did, however, believe that bats were birds, and that rabbits
chew their cud.
I keep hearing that argument which is no argument. The Bible also
mentions "leviathan, behemoth, and the unicorn."
Which further proves the lack of knowledge the people that wrote the Bible
had.
Your dig has NOTHING to do with my reasonable, rational point. You
simply wish to attack the Bible.
Knock yourself out.
"You don't break God's laws; they break you."
How sad that you ridicule and lie about a Book you have never bothered
to read.
That does not indicate
1. education
2. intelligence
jw
Could it be that they-- like the "bat" and the "rabbit" referred to
animals that no longer exist? Or animals that NEVER existed on the
North American continent?
Can you prove that this is the case?
There is NO reason to think that what they called "bats" 1000 BC is
what we call bats today. And we are discussing a continent THOUSANDS
of miles and several oceans away.
Now all you have to do is prove your assertion. What do you think they
called bats in 1,000 BCE, Hawks? Doves? Chickens?
God bless!
j w
.
|
|
|
| User: "Andrealphus" |
|
| Title: Re: God and Sex |
24 Oct 2004 05:02:10 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:53:42 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:32:58 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:16:58 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible
don't speak agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know it
speaks agin strong wine but don't say nuthin bout marijuana?
I'm bring that there up in the next church meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana was
as popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part of the
world. Remember these are also the people that thought the world
was flat during the time of these ancient writings.
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
They did, however, believe that bats were birds, and that rabbits
chew their cud.
I keep hearing that argument which is no argument. The Bible also
mentions "leviathan, behemoth, and the unicorn."
Which further proves the lack of knowledge the people that wrote the
Bible had.
Your dig has NOTHING to do with my reasonable, rational point. You
simply wish to attack the Bible.
Nonsense. You haven't proven that your assertion is fact. When you can
debate the topic like an adult, come back and try again.
Knock yourself out.
"You don't break God's laws; they break you."
How sad that you ridicule and lie about a Book you have never bothered
to read.
I've read it numerous times, and I have studied the matter extensively.
Unlike yourself.
That does not indicate
1. education
2. intelligence
jw
Could it be that they-- like the "bat" and the "rabbit" referred to
animals that no longer exist? Or animals that NEVER existed on the
North American continent?
Can you prove that this is the case?
There is NO reason to think that what they called "bats" 1000 BC is
what we call bats today. And we are discussing a continent THOUSANDS
of miles and several oceans away.
Now all you have to do is prove your assertion. What do you think
they called bats in 1,000 BCE, Hawks? Doves? Chickens?
God bless!
j w
No answer? Not a surprise I guess.
--
Brigham Young on interracial marriage:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the
white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed
of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This
will always be so."
.
|
|
|
| User: "j w" |
|
| Title: Re: God and Sex |
25 Oct 2004 02:45:42 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:02:10 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:53:42 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:32:58 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:16:58 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible
don't speak agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know it
speaks agin strong wine but don't say nuthin bout marijuana?
I'm bring that there up in the next church meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana was
as popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part of the
world. Remember these are also the people that thought the world
was flat during the time of these ancient writings.
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was flat,
because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
They did, however, believe that bats were birds, and that rabbits
chew their cud.
I keep hearing that argument which is no argument. The Bible also
mentions "leviathan, behemoth, and the unicorn."
Which further proves the lack of knowledge the people that wrote the
Bible had.
Your dig has NOTHING to do with my reasonable, rational point. You
simply wish to attack the Bible.
Nonsense. You haven't proven that your assertion is fact. When you can
debate the topic like an adult, come back and try again.
ditto.
I won't hold my breath, but I recommend you hold yours.
jw
God bless!
j w
.
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: God and Sex |
25 Oct 2004 05:19:03 AM |
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On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:02:10 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:53:42 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:32:58 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:16:58 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in
the group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible
don't speak agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know it
speaks agin strong wine but don't say nuthin bout marijuana?
I'm bring that there up in the next church meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana was
as popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part of the
world. Remember these are also the people that thought the
world was flat during the time of these ancient writings.
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was
flat, because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
They did, however, believe that bats were birds, and that rabbits
chew their cud.
I keep hearing that argument which is no argument. The Bible also
mentions "leviathan, behemoth, and the unicorn."
Which further proves the lack of knowledge the people that wrote
the Bible had.
Your dig has NOTHING to do with my reasonable, rational point. You
simply wish to attack the Bible.
Nonsense. You haven't proven that your assertion is fact. When you
can debate the topic like an adult, come back and try again.
ditto.
Then you agree that the people that wrote the bible had a lack of knowledge.
Thanks for that admission.
--
Brigham Young on interracial marriage:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the
white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed
of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This
will always be so."
.
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| User: "j w" |
|
| Title: Re: God and Sex |
27 Oct 2004 04:52:27 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:19:03 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:02:10 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:53:42 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:32:58 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<OHNOLETSGO@NARNIA.WHOCARES> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:16:58 GMT, Old Gringo
<oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in
the group)
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gUved.8923$Lk3.532@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Jude wrote:
"Old Gringo" <oldgringo747-jet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rWted.9124$q%7.583@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
MrPepper11 wrote:
New York Times
October 23, 2004
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Does the bible forbid marijuana? :)
Not that I am aware of but it is a mind altering drug. :)
Well, Old Gringo, I was a thinking there, now. IF the bible
don't speak agin it, then what's so wrong about it? I know it
speaks agin strong wine but don't say nuthin bout marijuana?
I'm bring that there up in the next church meeting, I am. :)
I really don't believe that in that part of world Marijuana was
as popular as Opium, the plant of the day in that part of the
world. Remember these are also the people that thought the
world was flat during the time of these ancient writings.
The people who wrote the Bible didn't believe the world was
flat, because they were inspired by God, and He knew better.
You might say, His perspective is a bit different.
:)
jw
God bless!
j w
They did, however, believe that bats were birds, and that rabbits
chew their cud.
I keep hearing that argument which is no argument. The Bible also
mentions "leviathan, behemoth, and the unicorn."
Which further proves the lack of knowledge the people that wrote
the Bible had.
Your dig has NOTHING to do with my reasonable, rational point. You
simply wish to attack the Bible.
Nonsense. You haven't proven that your assertion is fact. When you
can debate the topic like an adult, come back and try again.
ditto.
Then you agree that the people that wrote the bible had a lack of knowledge.
Thanks for that admission.
No, I do not agree, nor did I ever say, that the people WHO wrote the
Bible were ignorant. Their lack of knowledge in many areas wasn't at
issue, since God wrote the Bible. And there is knowledge in the Bible
that was beyond man's understanding in its time.
But I won't bore you with "for instance"s, as you don't particularly
exhibit a spirit of openness to any POV but your own.
As in , you don't come in here to be educated, you come in here to
show off your "knowledge" to "stupid Christians".
I'm not stupid.
jw
God bless!
j w
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