Religions > Bible > God gets the credit as missing five year old returns
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Gabriel" |
| Date: |
17 Jun 2007 01:29:36 PM |
| Object: |
God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/06/god_gets_the_credit_as_missing.php
Nothing short of a miracle of God that a 5 year old survived this! Some
atheists like to ignore miracles and point to suffering. In the absence of
prayer and faith, there is much suffering and death.
As a side note:
Although by sinning and remaining separate from God we don't condemn our
children and loved ones, in an indirect sense it looks true in an indirect
way. For if you believe in God, are saved, and pray to Him about the
wellbeing of others, more of His mercy and grace can extend to those people
that are prayed for. If close family friends had not been praying for the
little girl, along with other parishioners, the chances go way down (to
guaranteed death, from the sounds of it) for the survival chances of the
little girl.
So in effect, those who come to Christ will have an effect on reducing the
suffering and death to those close to them that they pray for. Those instead
who continue to reject God and sin against him **rob those close to him or
her of that extra grace** from having being prayed for. So indirectly,
being a sinner and blaspheming and rejecting God ends up robbing people
close to you of more of His grace and mercy they could have gotten from that
sinner if they had gotten saved and prayed to God instead. Sounds to me like
sinning creates more suffering and death to loved ones of the sinner. Not
directly Biblical, but seemingly indirectly so.
God Bless!
.
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
17 Jun 2007 02:25:43 PM |
|
|
In <k4fdi.95587$Sa4.2697@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, on
06/17/07
at 06:29 PM, "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> said:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/06/god_gets_the_credit_as_missing.php
Nothing short of a miracle of God that a 5 year old survived this! Some
atheists like to ignore miracles and point to suffering. In the
absence of prayer and faith, there is much suffering and death.
I suppose you also give your god credit for the incident in the first
place? No, why not. its your god that wants to impress you.
snip
walksalone who has noticed, xians in particular, neve give their god the
blame for causing the situations in the first place. Hypocrites.
Whenever morality is based on theology, whenever right is made dependent
on divine authority, the most immoral, unjust, infamous things can be
justified and established. -Ludwig Feuerbach, philosopher
(1804-1872)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gabriel" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
17 Jun 2007 03:05:01 PM |
|
|
<walksalone@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.ceap> wrote in message
news:f541pt$lca$1@news.datemas.de...
In <k4fdi.95587$Sa4.2697@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, on
06/17/07
at 06:29 PM, "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> said:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/06/god_gets_the_credit_as_missing.php
Nothing short of a miracle of God that a 5 year old survived this! Some
atheists like to ignore miracles and point to suffering. In the
absence of prayer and faith, there is much suffering and death.
I suppose you also give your god credit for the incident in the first
place? No, why not. its your god that wants to impress you.
God imposes punishment for rejecting Him, sinning against Him. But there's
much more at work than this:
Anyone ever tell you about the devil?
John 13:2
And supper being ended, the devil having now
put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's
son, to betray him;
John 13:27
And after the sop Satan entered into him.
Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest,
do quickly.
Anyone ever tell you about the suffering and death that is in this world due
to original sin?
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into
the world, and death by sin; and so death
passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Due to people continuing to want to be separate from God and sin as well?
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of
the glory of God;
Why blame God when even you obviously reject Him? You want to act like you
believe in God in this argument. So look more closely at what you do: he's
GOD, he created you and the universe and the perfect conditions here on
earth that sustain you, and yet you mock Him and reject Him and then wonder
why there's pain, suffering and death?
Whether you realize it or not, you are a servant of satan (you either serve
satan or God .. even indirectly you're serving satan perfectly when you
reject God). Satan owns you for free: he didn't do a thing to get you, and
will have you completely when you are cast into hell to be with him for
eternity.
snip
walksalone who has noticed, xians in particular, neve give their god the
blame for causing the situations in the first place. Hypocrites.
It's time that agnostics and atheists notice they need to take the blame for
rejecting God to begin with, as you reject and mock Him as we speak. Rather
than being a hypocrite and reject Him, acting like there shouldn't be
consequences for it. When you kill someone, do you call the human judge a
hypocrite or evil for imposing suffering upon you in return? When you steal
something, do you call the human judge a hypocrite or evil for imposing
suffering upon you in return? Or would you instead call that judge a good
judge for just ignoring your crimes and letting you go for no reason
whatsoever?
And by the way, I find it interesting, if not hypocritical that you lurk in
religious newsgroups when you seem to have much hate for God. Consider that
more closely before throwing the phrase 'hypocrite' around, lest you lead us
to believe you have no idea what that word really means.
Your conscience is trying to tell you something. If you honestly had no care
for God, you wouldn't be here posting and spending so much time. Think on
this.
Thanks for posting and God Bless!
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
17 Jun 2007 04:14:41 PM |
|
|
In <Ntgdi.179264$p47.18614@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, on
06/17/07
at 08:05 PM, "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> said:
<walksalone@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.ceap> wrote in message
news:f541pt$lca$1@news.datemas.de...
In <k4fdi.95587$Sa4.2697@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, on
06/17/07
at 06:29 PM, "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> said:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/06/god_gets_the_credit_as_missing.php
Nothing short of a miracle of God that a 5 year old survived this! Some
atheists like to ignore miracles and point to suffering. In the
absence of prayer and faith, there is much suffering and death.
I suppose you also give your god credit for the incident in the first
place? No, why not. its your god that wants to impress you.
God imposes punishment for rejecting Him, sinning against Him. But
You just verified that you are a clone of no merit & without the ability
to reason beyond the edge of your fears. have a nice life elsewhere.
there's much more at work than this:
Anyone ever tell you about the devil?
Yes, liars like you. Why? But then, they too were paralyzed from the
eyebrows up, ome were even Jain.
John 13:2
And supper being ended, the devil having now
put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's
son, to betray him;
All in accordance with divine plan A.
snip trailer trash level attempt to communicate concepts the abuser
knows nothing about.
Have a nice life, if you can ever find one.
walksalone who was certain that gabby would try & pretende the *debil*
did it, but then, he has no choice. & he still can not praise his god
for the situation that god permitted//created. It's enough to turn a
maggot's stomach.
this is certainly true in gabby's case.
Camels and Christians receive their burdens kneeling.
-- Ambrose Bierce, quoted from James A. Haught, ed., 2000 Years of
Disbelief
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gabriel" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
17 Jun 2007 08:00:38 PM |
|
|
Hi again walksalone
<walksalone@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.ceap> wrote in message
news:f54867$hd$1@news.datemas.de...
In <Ntgdi.179264$p47.18614@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, on
06/17/07
at 08:05 PM, "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> said:
<walksalone@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.ceap> wrote in message
news:f541pt$lca$1@news.datemas.de...
In <k4fdi.95587$Sa4.2697@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, on
06/17/07
at 06:29 PM, "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> said:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/06/god_gets_the_credit_as_missing.php
Nothing short of a miracle of God that a 5 year old survived this! Some
atheists like to ignore miracles and point to suffering. In the
absence of prayer and faith, there is much suffering and death.
I suppose you also give your god credit for the incident in the first
place? No, why not. its your god that wants to impress you.
God imposes punishment for rejecting Him, sinning against Him. But
You just verified that you are a clone of no merit & without the ability
to reason beyond the edge of your fears. have a nice life elsewhere.
Who said anything about being afraid? Since accepting Jesus Christ into my
life, I now have a sense of no fear, for it's obvious to me and those like
me that God is in control of everything. Those things that are bad that
happen God manages to turn into a greater good. So not sure where you get
this idea of me being afraid from. Is it your own fear perhaps that you
might be wrong? That you realize subconsciously that you've offended a holy,
righteous God? If so, before we are saved, fear of the Lord is the beginning
of understanding:
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning
of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom
and instruction.
there's much more at work than this:
Anyone ever tell you about the devil?
Yes, liars like you. Why? But then, they too were paralyzed from the
eyebrows up, ome were even Jain.
Ok then. You choose to believe it's all a lie. Your choice. If I was you,
I'd make sure you're right that it's all a lie.
Romans 1:21-23
Because that, when they knew God, they
glorified him not as God, neither were
thankful; but became vain in their
imaginations, and their foolish heart
was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they
became fools,
Because if, by some miniscule chance it turns out that you're wrong (which I
know you're wrong, but to you just consider that you *might* be wrong),
you'll be paying a huge penalty for eternity for all the wages you've
accumulated by sinning against God your whole life, and rejecting Jesus'
offer to save you from those sins.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift
of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 13:2
And supper being ended, the devil having now
put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's
son, to betray him;
All in accordance with divine plan A.
snip trailer trash level attempt to communicate concepts the abuser
knows nothing about.
It sounds like you just don't believe it. That's your choice, and God allows
you to have that choice. The downside is, you'll pay dearly for that choice
as you continue to sin against God. It's something you cannot afford to be
wrong about, but my mere words are not going to convince you otherwise.
Have a nice life, if you can ever find one.
walksalone who was certain that gabby would try & pretende the *debil*
did it, but then, he has no choice. & he still can not praise his god
for the situation that god permitted//created. It's enough to turn a
maggot's stomach.
What you seem to fail to understand: if God did not impose the punishment He
promised in advance for the act of disobedience that Adam willfully chose,
He is no longer a holy and righteous God. If a judge does not impose the
punishment that the law promises for breaking the law, he is not a good
judge and instead shows himself to be a corrupt judge.
Psalms 89:14
Justice and judgment are the habitation
of thy throne: mercy and truth shall
go before thy face.
But of course that judge would be corrupt to everyone except the person
who's broken the law: the person breaking the law would love *that* kind of
a judge. So the person guilty of breaking the law will curse the righteous
judge, while those who are not in denial of having broken the law, and are
not in denial that the wages accrued for continuously breaking the law must
be paid for realize the judge is right, and instead try to get right with
the law (and in this case with God), rather than seek ways to discredit the
judge so you can break the laws. It doesn't work that way, but people do try
to make it so.
this is certainly true in gabby's case.
Camels and Christians receive their burdens kneeling.
-- Ambrose Bierce, quoted from James A. Haught, ed., 2000 Years of
Disbelief
Sorry you feel this way. I wish you well!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Amanda" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
22 Jun 2007 07:33:40 AM |
|
|
On 18 Jun, 02:00, "Gabriel" <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi again walksalone
<walksal...@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.ceap> wrote in message
news:f54867$hd$1@news.datemas.de...
In <Ntgdi.179264$p47.18...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, on
06/17/07
at 08:05 PM, "Gabriel" <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> said:
<walksal...@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.ceap> wrote in message
news:f541pt$lca$1@news.datemas.de...
In <k4fdi.95587$Sa4.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, on
06/17/07
at 06:29 PM, "Gabriel" <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> said:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/06/god_gets_the_credit_as_missing.php
Nothing short of a miracle of God that a 5 year old survived this! Some
atheists like to ignore miracles and point to suffering. In the
absence of prayer and faith, there is much suffering and death.
I suppose you also give your god credit for the incident in the first
place? No, why not. its your god that wants to impress you.
God imposes punishment for rejecting Him, sinning against Him. But
You just verified that you are a clone of no merit & without the ability
to reason beyond the edge of your fears. have a nice life elsewhere.
Who said anything about being afraid? Since accepting Jesus Christ into my
life, I now have a sense of no fear, for it's obvious to me and those like
me that God is in control of everything. Those things that are bad that
happen God manages to turn into a greater good. So not sure where you get
this idea of me being afraid from. Is it your own fear perhaps that you
might be wrong? That you realize subconsciously that you've offended a holy,
righteous God? If so, before we are saved, fear of the Lord is the beginning
of understanding:
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning
of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom
and instruction.
there's much more at work than this:
Anyone ever tell you about the devil?
Yes, liars like you. Why? But then, they too were paralyzed from the
eyebrows up, ome were even Jain.
Ok then. You choose to believe it's all a lie. Your choice. If I was you,
I'd make sure you're right that it's all a lie.
Romans 1:21-23
Because that, when they knew God, they
glorified him not as God, neither were
thankful; but became vain in their
imaginations, and their foolish heart
was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they
became fools,
Because if, by some miniscule chance it turns out that you're wrong (which I
know you're wrong, but to you just consider that you *might* be wrong),
you'll be paying a huge penalty for eternity for all the wages you've
accumulated by sinning against God your whole life, and rejecting Jesus'
offer to save you from those sins.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift
of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 13:2
And supper being ended, the devil having now
put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's
son, to betray him;
All in accordance with divine plan A.
snip trailer trash level attempt to communicate concepts the abuser
knows nothing about.
It sounds like you just don't believe it. That's your choice, and God allows
you to have that choice. The downside is, you'll pay dearly for that choice
as you continue to sin against God. It's something you cannot afford to be
wrong about, but my mere words are not going to convince you otherwise.
Have a nice life, if you can ever find one.
walksalone who was certain that gabby would try & pretende the *debil*
did it, but then, he has no choice. & he still can not praise his god
for the situation that god permitted//created. It's enough to turn a
maggot's stomach.
What you seem to fail to understand: if God did not impose the punishment He
promised in advance for the act of disobedience that Adam willfully chose,
He is no longer a holy and righteous God. If a judge does not impose the
punishment that the law promises for breaking the law, he is not a good
judge and instead shows himself to be a corrupt judge.
Psalms 89:14
Justice and judgment are the habitation
of thy throne: mercy and truth shall
go before thy face.
But of course that judge would be corrupt to everyone except the person
who's broken the law: the person breaking the law would love *that* kind of
a judge. So the person guilty of breaking the law will curse the righteous
judge, while those who are not in denial of having broken the law, and are
not in denial that the wages accrued for continuously breaking the law must
be paid for realize the judge is right, and instead try to get right with
the law (and in this case with God), rather than seek ways to discredit the
judge so you can break the laws. It doesn't work that way, but people do try
to make it so.
this is certainly true in gabby's case.
Camels and Christians receive their burdens kneeling.
-- Ambrose Bierce, quoted from James A. Haught, ed., 2000 Years of
Disbelief
Sorry you feel this way. I wish you well!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If anyone else claimed that some spirital being called gavin comforted
and talked to them in their sleep - they would be carted off to the
loony house....
The only reason you loveless virgins arent carted off is that enough
of you perpetrate the lie.
Lets be honest here, I would respect you far more if you didnt make
the standard claim that Jesus speaks to you (thats a made up person,
dont you know?)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gabriel" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
22 Jun 2007 08:07:18 AM |
|
|
Hi Amanda,
"Amanda" <whotheman@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1182515620.224502.37670@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
[ .. ]
If anyone else claimed that some spirital being called gavin comforted
and talked to them in their sleep - they would be carted off to the
loony house....
The only reason you loveless virgins arent carted off is that enough
of you perpetrate the lie.
Please take a long look at how your reaction to this is just insults. The
fact that anything causes annoyance in our lives shows us something about
ourselves we don't like very much. And I'm not just talking about God
here -- this is true of any topic. But in terms of God: It's the best
evidence I can give you that God is more important to you than you realize:
it creates annoyance in you.
Other than that, since insults seem to be your only method of expression,
there's nothing I can really say to you, as I would not listen if I was in
your state either. We were all blind, some of us (me) longer than others,
before finally seeing the truth. Take a look at your own anger on this
topic, as that's probably the most compelling evidence you have available to
you to make a decision about God.
Lets be honest here, I would respect you far more if you didnt make
the standard claim that Jesus speaks to you (thats a made up person,
dont you know?)
We don't post these things to earn respect. But since respect seems
important to you, consider this: others might respect the possibility that
you might have a valid point if you didn't come across as throwing a tantrum
instead.
Thanks for writing!
.
|
|
|
| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
23 Jun 2007 01:49:45 AM |
|
|
In article <aQPei.109659$Sa4.34869@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
Please take a long look at how your reaction to this is just insults. The
fact that anything causes annoyance in our lives shows us something about
ourselves we don't like very much. And I'm not just talking about God
here -- this is true of any topic. But in terms of God: It's the best
evidence I can give you that God is more important to you than you realize:
it creates annoyance in you.
If you can't offer better evidence than that I'd say you are wasting your
time trying to convince anyone since you obviously only believe in it
yourself for emotiona;l reasons
Ergo what you need is psychological counselling for an inability to
emotionally cope with normal everyday life
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Joe Bol" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
22 Jun 2007 08:40:20 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 05:33:40 -0700, Amanda <whotheman@btinternet.com>
wrote:
If anyone else claimed that some spirital being called gavin comforted
and talked to them in their sleep - they would be carted off to the
loony house....
Gavin is a nice name.
Gavinites.
Hymms would say things like:
"Gavin, Gavin, Ga-vin,
Sweetest name I know.
Fills my every longing
Keeps me singing as I go."
OR:
"Gavin, Gavin, Gavin,
There's just something about that name."
OR:
"and you shall call his name Gavin, for he shall save his people from
bad K-Mart stores"
Yeah, Gavin would work. It's better than Jason or Josh or Kip.
CN
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
17 Jun 2007 09:08:22 PM |
|
|
In article <Ntgdi.179264$p47.18614@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
God imposes punishment for rejecting Him, sinning against Him.
There is no evidence for this at all
Seems like the greatest exploiters in the world are sitting pretty
largely protected from the wrath of those they repress, exploit and
destroy by the piety of Christians - who believe it is God's will to
protect the priveleged
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gabriel" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
19 Jun 2007 09:44:23 AM |
|
|
Hi RedFox,
"RedFox" <Jesse@StJoseph.com> wrote in message
news:Jesse-1806071208220001@192.168.0.3...
In article <Ntgdi.179264$p47.18614@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
God imposes punishment for rejecting Him, sinning against Him.
There is no evidence for this at all
The evidence is in the Bible. The Word of God. You don't believe it's the
Word of God, so this means to you there's no evidence. That's your choice.
Please, please consider that you better be sure you're right. On the day we
all die, the price you will pay for being wrong will be an eternity in hell!
All I'm saying is consider this from time to time. It's too important to be
wrong over.
Thanks for posting!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Amanda" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
22 Jun 2007 07:35:26 AM |
|
|
On 19 Jun, 15:44, "Gabriel" <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi RedFox,
"RedFox" <J...@StJoseph.com> wrote in message
news:Jesse-1806071208220001@192.168.0.3...
In article <Ntgdi.179264$p47.18...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
God imposes punishment for rejecting Him, sinning against Him.
There is no evidence for this at all
The evidence is in the Bible. The Word of God. You don't believe it's the
Word of God, so this means to you there's no evidence. That's your choice.
Please, please consider that you better be sure you're right. On the day we
all die, the price you will pay for being wrong will be an eternity in hell!
All I'm saying is consider this from time to time. It's too important to be
wrong over.
Thanks for posting!
But who wouldnt want to stay in hell? Up in heaven with your virgin
ilk would be one fucking bore!!
Quick question.......Do child rapist priests who repent still get into
your little heaven club?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Amanda" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
22 Jun 2007 07:27:08 AM |
|
|
On 17 Jun, 21:05, "Gabriel" <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<walksal...@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.ceap> wrote in message
news:f541pt$lca$1@news.datemas.de...
In <k4fdi.95587$Sa4.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, on
06/17/07
at 06:29 PM, "Gabriel" <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> said:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/06/god_gets_the_credit_as_missing.php
Nothing short of a miracle of God that a 5 year old survived this! Some
atheists like to ignore miracles and point to suffering. In the
absence of prayer and faith, there is much suffering and death.
I suppose you also give your god credit for the incident in the first
place? No, why not. its your god that wants to impress you.
God imposes punishment for rejecting Him, sinning against Him. But there's
much more at work than this:
Anyone ever tell you about the devil?
John 13:2
And supper being ended, the devil having now
put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's
son, to betray him;
John 13:27
And after the sop Satan entered into him.
Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest,
do quickly.
Anyone ever tell you about the suffering and death that is in this world due
to original sin?
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into
the world, and death by sin; and so death
passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Due to people continuing to want to be separate from God and sin as well?
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of
the glory of God;
Why blame God when even you obviously reject Him? You want to act like you
believe in God in this argument. So look more closely at what you do: he's
GOD, he created you and the universe and the perfect conditions here on
earth that sustain you, and yet you mock Him and reject Him and then wonder
why there's pain, suffering and death?
Whether you realize it or not, you are a servant of satan (you either serve
satan or God .. even indirectly you're serving satan perfectly when you
reject God). Satan owns you for free: he didn't do a thing to get you, and
will have you completely when you are cast into hell to be with him for
eternity.
snip
walksalone who has noticed, xians in particular, neve give their god the
blame for causing the situations in the first place. Hypocrites.
It's time that agnostics and atheists notice they need to take the blame for
rejecting God to begin with, as you reject and mock Him as we speak. Rather
than being a hypocrite and reject Him, acting like there shouldn't be
consequences for it. When you kill someone, do you call the human judge a
hypocrite or evil for imposing suffering upon you in return? When you steal
something, do you call the human judge a hypocrite or evil for imposing
suffering upon you in return? Or would you instead call that judge a good
judge for just ignoring your crimes and letting you go for no reason
whatsoever?
And by the way, I find it interesting, if not hypocritical that you lurk in
religious newsgroups when you seem to have much hate for God. Consider that
more closely before throwing the phrase 'hypocrite' around, lest you lead us
to believe you have no idea what that word really means.
Your conscience is trying to tell you something. If you honestly had no care
for God, you wouldn't be here posting and spending so much time. Think on
this.
Thanks for posting and God Bless!
Thing is though..........There is no god. And if I am wrong then I can
happilly sin against him by calling him and his faggott son a *****!!
Does that make you unhappy god boy? You're not going to mollest a kid
in protest are you?
.
|
|
|
| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
23 Jun 2007 01:46:27 AM |
|
|
In article <1182515228.811405.273970@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Amanda
<whotheman@btinternet.com> wrote:
Anyone ever tell you about the suffering and death that is in this world due
to original sin?
Yep
++++++++++
Original Sin's a concept with which it's hard to grapple,
An awful heap of pious crap about a lousy apple
One wonders if the Good Lord would have been, well, far less vexed
If Eve had used her mouth for giving Adam oral sex
The problem with most Christians is that you can never win
Apples or a ***** both seem to count as sin
So thou shouldst all be careful that if Jesus comes to save thee
He finds thee playing all alone upon thy ukelele.
+++++++++++++++
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
17 Jun 2007 05:50:34 PM |
|
|
In article <k4fdi.95587$Sa4.2697@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/06/god_gets_the_credit_as_missing.php
Nothing short of a miracle of God that a 5 year old survived this! Some
atheists like to ignore miracles and point to suffering. In the absence of
prayer and faith, there is much suffering and death.
Reminds me of the day I mislaid my reading glasses
After a nine hour search by members of my family God found them for me.
Get it solid , stupid, if God really solved these problems he'd stop them
in the first frigging place before they happened
Dear oh dear oh dear
Poor kid
surrounded by idiots too!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gabriel" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
17 Jun 2007 08:12:26 PM |
|
|
Hi RedFox,
"RedFox" <Jesse@StJoseph.com> wrote in message
news:Jesse-1806070850340001@192.168.0.3...
In article <k4fdi.95587$Sa4.2697@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/06/god_gets_the_credit_as_missing.php
Nothing short of a miracle of God that a 5 year old survived this! Some
atheists like to ignore miracles and point to suffering. In the absence
of
prayer and faith, there is much suffering and death.
Reminds me of the day I mislaid my reading glasses
After a nine hour search by members of my family God found them for me.
Do you really want to compare a search for your glasses to the search for a
lost child in a dangerous setting such as she found herself in?
Get it solid , stupid, if God really solved these problems he'd stop them
in the first frigging place before they happened
Nature and the world is corrupt by Adam's sin. It's the state of the world
we all live in, believers and non-believers alike.
Genesis 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast
hearkened unto the voice of thy wife,
and hast eaten of the tree, of which I
commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not
eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy
sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it
all the days of thy life;
It's the consequences of Adam's sin that has corrupted nature. We wanted to
be seperate from Him, and now we have it. And we cannot blame just Adam,
because look at all the people that still want to be separate from Him. And
so here we live in a corrupted Earth, a corrupted nature, with the devil,
who we wanted to listen to more than God Himself.
John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you:
for the prince of this world cometh,
and hath nothing in me.
Dear oh dear oh dear
Poor kid
It sounds like that kid has a chance to find out about life eternal, and
gain the blessings of God. Unlike others who are fed stories of hopeless,
meaningless, random existance.
surrounded by idiots too!
Psalms 14:1
To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.
The fool hath said in his heart, There
is no God. They are corrupt, they have
done abominable works, there is none
that doeth good.
I wish you well!
.
|
|
|
| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
18 Jun 2007 10:12:08 PM |
|
|
In article <_Zkdi.180426$p47.2960@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi RedFox,
"RedFox" <Jesse@StJoseph.com> wrote in message
news:Jesse-1806070850340001@192.168.0.3...
In article <k4fdi.95587$Sa4.2697@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/06/god_gets_the_credit_as_missing.php
Nothing short of a miracle of God that a 5 year old survived this! Some
atheists like to ignore miracles and point to suffering. In the absence
of
prayer and faith, there is much suffering and death.
Reminds me of the day I mislaid my reading glasses
After a nine hour search by members of my family God found them for me.
Do you really want to compare a search for your glasses to the search for a
lost child in a dangerous setting such as she found herself in?
Yes in terms of God's supposed assistance it is called reductio ad absurdum
Your concept that "God found the child" is the same as saying "God just
blew up twenty innocent people in Iraq"
Take the credit you take the fall
Your idea of a God that intervenes so long as he is prayed to is barbaric
nonsense. The Second World War and the Holocaust taught us that
++++
Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to the absurd") also known as an
apagogical argument, reductio ad impossibile, or proof by contradiction,
is a type of logical argument where one assumes a claim for the sake of
argument, derives an absurd or ridiculous outcome, and then concludes that
the original assumption must have been wrong as it led to an absurd
result. It makes use of the law of non-contradiction - a statement cannot
be both true and false. In some cases it may also make use of the law of
excluded middle - a statement must be either true or false. The phrase is
traceable back to the Greek £b £`£dV ?£n£j¼£j£h £\¼£\£^£s£^? (hê eis
átopon apagogê), meaning "reduction to the impossible", often used by
Aristotle.
In formal logic, reductio ad absurdum is used when a formal contradiction
can be derived from a premise, allowing one to conclude that the premise
is false. If a contradiction is derived from a set of premises, this shows
that at least one of the premises is false, but other means must be used
to determine which one.
Reductio ad absurdum is also often used to describe an argument where a
conclusion is derived in the belief that everyone (or at least those being
argued against) will accept that it is false or absurd. However, this is a
weak form of reductio, as the decision to reject the premise requires that
the conclusion is accepted as being absurd. Although a formal
contradiction is by definition absurd (unacceptable), a weak reductio ad
absurdum argument can be rejected simply by accepting the purportedly
absurd conclusion.
There is a fairly common misconception that reductio ad absurdum simply
denotes "a silly argument" and is itself a formal fallacy. However, this
is not correct; a properly constructed reductio constitutes a correct
argument.
Example
The following dialogue is an example of reductio ad absurdum:
Father- Why did you start smoking?
Daughter - All my friends were doing it.
Father- You're saying that if all your friends jumped off a cliff, you
would do that too?
Here, the father refutes the daughter's justification by showing the
absurdity of its consequences.
++++++++++++++++++++
The child is found - so you say that the cause of the child being found
was prayer - that God was in fact the person who found and saved the child
By the same token - God found my glasses and blew up the people in Iraq
And in fact since God does it all we only have to sit on our fat arses
praying and everything will be done for us - dinner cooked - rent paid -
war in Iraq won - everybody converted to Christianity - cat fixed - car
repaired.
Try another experiment - get a hundred people to sit round a brick on the
floor and all pray together that God will lift it two metres into the air
and suspend it there for half an hour - no ropes no conjuring tricks
And when the brick stays in place on the floor unmoved - give up on this
crap and actually DO something. Like voting in a sane administration for
a change - not one who thinks through prayer God raises bricks and wins
wars and fixes the environment..
++++++++++++
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gabriel" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
19 Jun 2007 11:55:22 AM |
|
|
Hi RedFox,
What you don't understand about God is:
The devil is prince of this world and creates much of the suffering and
death.
John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you:
for the prince of this world cometh,
and hath nothing in me.
It is the price we pay for Adam's original sin corrupting this world,
for wanting to disobey and be separate from God. But we can't just blame
Adam, as all of us sin worse than Adam did in the garden. We disobey God
every single day. We want to be separate. We got our wish.
So because of this, suffering and death is allowed, as promised before it
was ever allowed, if God was disobeyed. For God to just stop all that
promised suffering and death, he would no longer be a holy and righteous
God.
http://www.livingwaters.com/witnessingtool/whyistheresuffering.shtml
So what do we do? Keep sinning and showing that we want to be separate from
God, and then hypocritically complain about the suffering and death that is
a result of that, and actions identical to it?
The fact is God does stop much of the suffering and death. The day he stops
doing so, you'll notice the insane difference. But as we continue to remove
God from more and more of our lives, from our schools, and more, his
protection and mercy continues to be removed right along with it. The
results are becoming more and more obvious as suffering and death gets
worse.
This extra mercy is typically given to those who pray and ask for it, and
extends to those who are prayed for. Perhaps you should take this as a wake
up call that you need admit you are a sinner against a holy and righteous
God, repent from yours sins, and call on Jesus Christ, the son of God, to
save you from your sins, before it's eternally too late. Then start praying
for people and help reduce the pain and suffering in this world brought
about by original sin and our continuing to sin.
Make no mistake about it: God has a wrathful side, and if you expect to be
able to blaspheme and mock God and there be no consequences, you're sadly
mistaken.
Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled
to God by the death of his Son, much more, being
reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:
and he that believeth not the Son shall not see
life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
So please give up on this "mindlessly" loving God. He does love you and want
everyone to come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise,
as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering
to us-ward, not willing that any should perish,
but that all should come to repentance.
But He's not going to ignore the sinning against Him and wanting to be
separate from Him. Sorry, but you're going to have to deal with the
unfortunate reality that in spite of God's amazing love for us sinners,
suffering and death is ours for insisting on sinning against Him and
rejecting Him. You're going to have to admit you're a sinner, repent from
your sin, and call on Jesus Christ to save you. Pointing out how you don't
like and mock God that there's punishment for our wicked behavior won't
change a thing.
Becoming saved and praying for God to make things better will improve this
world one life at a time. That girl is just more living proof of this.
Thanks for posting!
.
|
|
|
| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
20 Jun 2007 05:46:41 PM |
|
|
In article <_TTdi.189761$p47.109373@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi RedFox,
What you don't understand about God is:
The devil is prince of this world and creates much of the suffering and
death.
There is NO evidence for that - It is just a rubbish pseudo pagan mystery
cult assertion that crept into christianity
John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you:
for the prince of this world cometh,
and hath nothing in me.
The scribe or scribes who wrote the Gospel that half a century later was
attributed to John wrote the most appalling rubbish that is not even
compatable with the synoptics.
It is the price we pay for Adam's original sin corrupting this world,
for wanting to disobey and be separate from God. But we can't just blame
Adam, as all of us sin worse than Adam did in the garden.
There was no Adam and Eve
Its a myth stupid!
We disobey God
every single day. We want to be separate. We got our wish.
Nope
Time for a little poem I think - Lighten up you are talking Fundamentalist
drivel
===================
Adam and Eve by a single bite of fruit
Viewed each others genitals as really rather cute
Lets have another mouthful said Adam to his wife
I think I've found a brand new occupation in my life
But Eve she said dear Adam please don't think I am old fashioned
But there are things we ladies all prefer if we keep rationed
And that is how dear Eve became the first of all the wowsers
For it was Eve that first told man to keep it in his trousers.
Original Sin's a concept with which it's hard to grapple,
An awful heap of pious crap about a lousy apple
One wonders if the Good Lord would have been, well, far less vexed
If Eve had used her mouth for giving Adam oral sex
The problem with most Christians is that you can never win
Apples or a ***** both seem to count as sin
So thou shouldst all be careful that if Jesus comes to save thee
He finds thee playing all alone upon thy ukelele.
=======================================
=======================
So because of this, suffering and death is allowed, as promised before it
was ever allowed, if God was disobeyed. For God to just stop all that
promised suffering and death, he would no longer be a holy and righteous
God.
Crap- we die for one reason and one reason only. Our bodies are
gentically programmed and designed for a limited lifespan.
We try to maintain them as well as we can - but unlike a car where you can
replace the most vital parts such as the engine or in some cases the
minicomputer people are liable to die when more complex parts are being
replaced. For example we cannot replace a brain and it does wear out with
time - cells cease to generate or be replaced
Death is not the punishment for an ancient sin. Hopefully we will evolve
eventually to live longer. In the mean time we learn how to live longer
and fitter through science. My father was worn out by sixty five and died
soon after. I hope to live longer
So what do we do? Keep sinning and showing that we want to be separate from
God, and then hypocritically complain about the suffering and death that is
a result of that, and actions identical to it?
Dreadful non sequitors. Your thinking has been scrambled like an egg
cracked to make an omlette
The fact is God does stop much of the suffering and death.
NOPE
The day he stops
doing so, you'll notice the insane difference.
So he stopped between 1933 and 1945
And then in Korea , Vietnam, Rwanda Burundi, Congo, Yugoslavia, Ethiopia,
Sudan, Chad
But as we continue to remove
God from more and more of our lives, from our schools, and more, his
protection and mercy continues to be removed right along with it. The
results are becoming more and more obvious as suffering and death gets
worse.
Drivel
This extra mercy is typically given to those who pray and ask for it, and
extends to those who are prayed for. Perhaps you should take this as a wake
up call that you need admit you are a sinner against a holy and righteous
God, repent from yours sins, and call on Jesus Christ, the son of God, to
save you from your sins, before it's eternally too late. Then start praying
for people and help reduce the pain and suffering in this world brought
about by original sin and our continuing to sin.
Who DID this to you
You need help here mate
This isn;t Christianity - it is pseudo occultist hogwash
Seems to me you have been hanging round an amateur Church only a rung
above snake handling
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gabriel" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
20 Jun 2007 09:25:20 PM |
|
|
Hi RedFox,
"RedFox" <Jesse@StJoseph.com> wrote in message
news:Jesse-2106070846410001@192.168.0.3...
In article <_TTdi.189761$p47.109373@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi RedFox,
What you don't understand about God is:
The devil is prince of this world and creates much of the suffering and
death.
There is NO evidence for that -
This was in response to you saying
"You didn't get it that God would stop these problems rather than letting
them happen only to solve them."
This spoken like a person that has some belief in God. Apparently not so.
But not yet knowing this, I explained why this is the case. Now you show
your unbelief and claim there's "no evidence". The evidence is in God's Word
and what millions of saved people can now see clearly happening in their
lives and the world around them every day. I quoted you several passages to
give you something to look into. But if you flat out don't believe, it makes
no sense that you asked that question to begin with, except to cause
discord.
So the fact is you don't believe. That's your choice. Just please make sure
you're right before you end up being wrong after a lifetime of sinning and
mocking God, and end up paying for it with an eternity in Hell. It would be
a huge price to pay for being wrong, especially when He will point out to
you that people like me told you exactly what you needed to know, and you
will be "without excuse"
Romans 1:19
Because that which may be known of God is
manifest in them; for God hath showed it
unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the
creation of the world are clearly seen, being
understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead; so that
they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they
glorified him not as God, neither were
thankful; but became vain in their imaginations,
and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
I don't expect this to make a dent, but to anyone else reading it who is
unsure, it will definitely be food for thought.
Thanks for posting!
.
|
|
|
| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
21 Jun 2007 02:03:56 AM |
|
|
In article <kklei.105509$Sa4.63986@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi RedFox,
"RedFox" <Jesse@StJoseph.com> wrote in message
news:Jesse-2106070846410001@192.168.0.3...
In article <_TTdi.189761$p47.109373@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi RedFox,
What you don't understand about God is:
The devil is prince of this world and creates much of the suffering and
death.
There is NO evidence for that -
This was in response to you saying
"You didn't get it that God would stop these problems rather than letting
them happen only to solve them."
This spoken like a person that has some belief in God. Apparently not so.
But not yet knowing this, I explained why this is the case. Now you show
your unbelief and claim there's "no evidence".
The evidence is in God's Word
There is no such thing as "God's word" All we have is some ancient
documents written by scribes and containing laws that are "supported" by
legends. The Bible is evidence for nothing except its own content
and what millions of saved people can now see clearly happening in their
lives and the world around them every day. I quoted you several passages to
give you something to look into. But if you flat out don't believe, it makes
no sense that you asked that question to begin with, except to cause
discord.
You have a problem with discord. Discord is how democracy works - I take
it you prefer theocracy - so long as the rubbish you believe is the basis
of the Theocrats in power
So the fact is you don't believe. That's your choice. Just please make sure
you're right before you end up being wrong after a lifetime of sinning and
mocking God, and end up paying for it with an eternity in Hell.
Oh Bullcrap
The ones who will get the most punishment will be the ones who believe
this crap - and their punishment wil be to watch God ***** himself laughing
at their silly antics
It would be
a huge price to pay for being wrong, especially when He will point out to
you that people like me told you exactly what you needed to know, and you
will be "without excuse"
Oh yes - you know it all don't you
What a wanker you are! trying to play the big man by getting Jesus to
punch the lights out of those who like me think you are an idiot
Romans 1:19
Because that which may be known of God is
manifest in them; for God hath showed it
unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the
creation of the world are clearly seen, being
understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead; so that
they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they
glorified him not as God, neither were
thankful; but became vain in their imaginations,
and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
I don't expect this to make a dent,
It wont
Paul - the reformed serial killer - was Christianity's founding fraud
- a liar to the core
And one rightly reviled by the early followers of Jesus, who rightly
despised his nonsense
.
|
|
|
| User: "Joe Bol" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
21 Jun 2007 12:15:01 PM |
|
|
I wonder what kind of credit God would receive if the missing five
year old never returned or was found sliced into pieces??
SI
.
|
|
|
| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
22 Jun 2007 01:54:42 AM |
|
|
In article <uecl735sbs0ug1no243krg5lb91rrklf40@4ax.com>, Joe Bol
<notreal@notreal.com> wrote:
I wonder what kind of credit God would receive if the missing five
year old never returned or was found sliced into pieces??
SI
We would be told to admire "the faith of parents who despite all trauma
and sorrow - never once lost their faith in God"
It is easy to write this crap
"Dearly Beloved
We are right to grieve, even to cry, for to grieve is human - it comes
from our compassion - not only towards the sad victim but also towards
ourselves. Tears of compassion and grief are sometimes the manifestation
of the gifts to us of the Holy Spirit.
But let us also not forget that Jesus in his pain called out to the thief
on the cross beside his own "this day you shall be with me in Paradise"
In order to find eternal life we all must all shed our mortal form. That
is the faith we share with the parents of this child. It is the faith of
such as these that will strengthen our own, in our own times of crisis and
distress.
We believe in Christmas that it is a little child that leads - so it is
today. In our sorrow let us remember that the child has taken a path
through darkness that we too must follow to reach the same dawn. In the
separation of death we find the deepest in human sorrow but when we are
raised from the dead we too will find our true joy in the saviours arms
and the renewed company of our loved ones"
But I am - of course happy the child was found
Around 20000 children died in poverty again today - every day
What prayers for these?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Joe Bol" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
22 Jun 2007 08:35:53 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:54:42 +1000, (RedFox) wrote:
Around 20000 children died in poverty again today - every day
I guess God knows what he is doing. Yeah.
LX
.
|
|
|
| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
23 Jun 2007 01:53:10 AM |
|
|
In article <90kn73h5eqp5e9c2ujtdfk1b8s7l0a2e7f@4ax.com>, Joe Bol
<notreal@notreal.com> wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:54:42 +1000, (RedFox) wrote:
Around 20000 children died in poverty again today - every day
I guess God knows what he is doing. Yeah.
He does it to help us renew our faith in his goodness and active concern.
The compassion and love he displays towards these 20000 children every day
is the same concern and compassion he displays towards you - and should
make it clear to you why he is so concerned about your sex life and where
you dip your wick..
.
|
|
|
| User: "Joe Bol" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
23 Jun 2007 09:12:28 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:53:10 +1000, (RedFox) wrote:
In article <90kn73h5eqp5e9c2ujtdfk1b8s7l0a2e7f@4ax.com>, Joe Bol
<notreal@notreal.com> wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:54:42 +1000, (RedFox) wrote:
Around 20000 children died in poverty again today - every day
I guess God knows what he is doing. Yeah.
He does it to help us renew our faith in his goodness and active concern.
The compassion and love he displays towards these 20000 children every day
is the same concern and compassion he displays towards you - and should
make it clear to you why he is so concerned about your sex life and where
you dip your wick..
Well, if God kills all those 20,000 children by starvation BEFORE they
reach the age of accountability, then they will all go to Heaven.
If they don't starve to death before reaching the age of
accountability and if they don't hear about Jesus and if they don't
accept Christ as their personal savior and give their heart to Jesus
after reaching the age of accountability, they will all burn in hell
torment or eternity.
Sounds like a plan to me!
MJ
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
21 Jun 2007 02:09:08 AM |
|
|
In article <kklei.105509$Sa4.63986@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
I don't expect this to make a dent, but to anyone else reading it who is
unsure, it will definitely be food for thought.
Here is some more
"Yet the idea that either hell or heaven is a place to which people go is
a part of the human experience of limited language. We are beings, God is
Being itself but in human language we conceptualize God as a Being, for
that is all we understand.
We are creatures bound by time and place and so we describe life beyond
this life in terms of linear, spatial concepts. We have no other language.
The problem arises when we assume our language is literally true. It
isn't. If God is life then heaven is life in God, Hell is life apart from
God. It is about relationships not about space.
Is anyone apart from God? That is not for me to say. Do we have the
capacity to say a final and ultimate "No" to God? I suppose that is
theoretically possible.
The Church has always used both heaven and hell as promise and threat in
the task of behavior control.... ..... I find those categories
meaningless.
If we would stop worrying about other people and concentrate on our own
relationship with God and others, we would have a better world.
-- John Shelby Spong
We are in our world today in a period of intense theological upheaval.
That upheaval is characterized by both a rise in fundamentalism and a
corresponding increase in the number of people who reject all religious
symbols as no longer meaningful. So we have religious fanaticism
confronting an increasingly secular society. In this divisive atmosphere,
there are the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons on one side and the
Richard Dawkins' and Sam Harris' on the other.
I find myself generally in agreement with the criticisms of organized
religion, including Christianity, leveled by Richard Dawkins and Sam
Harris. Their biggest problem is not their criticism, which I find quite
accurate, but that the Christianity they reject is a very poor
representation of what Christianity was meant to be. It is because they
know no other Christianity than this popular expression, they believe that
atheism is the only viable alternative to the Christianity they have known
and rejected. They have never explored the essence of Christianity because
that essence lives in such tiny and hidden places. I think the theism of
popular Christianity is dying and that is why many people think
Christianity is dying. The idea that God is a supernatural being, who
inhabits outer space somewhere and who occasionally intervenes in this
world in miraculous ways, is not a credible concept to me. Since this is
the only concept of God that many people can imagine, they see atheism as
the only viable alternative. Nothing reveals better the bleakness of so
much of contemporary Christianity.
I am a believer who is not a theist. Some people mistakenly assume that an
atheist is the same thing as a non-theist. Nothing could be further from
the truth. If anything, I am a god-intoxicated human being, perhaps even a
mystic. I experience God as 'Other,' as 'Transcendence,' as 'Depth,' and
as the ultimate meaning of life. I believe that humanity and divinity are
not separate categories, but represent the eternal spectrum of human
experience. Divinity is the depth dimension of humanity. I see this God
presence lived out in the human life of Jesus of Nazareth. I search the
Scriptures to find images of God that transcend the theistic images of the
childhood of our humanity; the old man in the sky with the magic power
that permeated primitive religious thought. I find it in the unwillingness
of the ancient Jewish writers of our sacred story to have the name of God
spoken by human lips since no human mind can embrace the reality of God
sufficiently to speak the divine name. I see it in the Jewish commandment
that we are never to make an image of God since nothing made with human
hands or constructed by the human mind can finally be big enough to
capture the Holy God. Yet religious people constantly think that the human
creations of scripture, creeds and doctrines have somehow embraced the
wonder of the holy. These are nothing more, however, than verbal "graven
images." I find the Bible in some places is reduced to defining God in
impersonal images because the personal ones become so false when
literalized. So God is defined in what I call the minority voices of the
Bible as like unto the wind, the rock and even as the power and source of
love.
When human beings talk about God, all they are really doing is talking
about their human experience of God. When that truth is faced, certainty
of expression disappears but the experience of God does not. I wish not
only that... .... most religious reporters in our newspapers and above
all the radio preachers, were aware of and could embrace that human
limitation.
-- John Shelby Spong
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "dror" |
|
| Title: Re: God gets the credit as missing five year old returns |
26 Jun 2007 03:32:14 AM |
|
|
The issue is disscussed thru www.speakitz.com on the web
page: http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/06/god_gets_the_credit_as_missing.php
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
