| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
04 Mar 2005 12:14:37 AM |
| Object: |
God is absent, is dead or does not exist |
All religions and therefore all gods they worship are man made.
Nowhere do I see any physical actions or acts of a god or gods.
So it is self-evident to me that religions are made--and 'made up'--
solely by human beings, based on dreams, thoughts, mysticism,
philosophies and explanations of life and death, the sun, the moon,
etc., interwoven with legends, myths, superstition, social laws, and
the many many taboos of the ages.
But it is all not based on any physical reality.
In a sense it has been grabbed out of thin air over the ages.
It does not mean it is worthless, it may offer many people a pacifier,
an explanation of the mysteries, of pain and misery, and a dream of
hope. But it is all a dream, kind of a self-hypnosis that something
better awaits us after this life, wishful thinking, denial of despair.
=======================================================
It is really a failure or lack of courage to face reality:
That we do not know why matter, life and we ourselves exist.
Because we do not know, we desperately seem to need a pacifying
explanation.
So over the ages we made (up) many, and we still make up more,
all the time.
========================================================
However 'we do not know' does not mean we should
assume an all-powerful being/creator/ruler. We do not know, so
the all-powerful being created by man over the ages, is nothing more
than a man-made idea and explanation, based on nothing physical,
based on no proofs, based on no physical signs of gods anywhere.
It is all wishful thinking, not based on rational thinking, not in
agreement with science, not in agreement with what I observe and
can observe: E.g., the tsunami happened because the earth core is
cooling, there was no 'hand of God' who caused it, there was no
'hand of God' who saved or killed 100,000 little children.
It is all based on a 'belief' in what is unknown.
That means it is really all based on sand = on ideas.
It is very elaborate but in its basic essence it is all 'made up'.
Why has it been 'made up' over the ages?
To pacify and soothe, to control, to explain, to provide
some imaginary relief of the hard daily life, to provide
some kind of social cohesion via shared beliefs, to help support
the many unwritten laws in tribes and larger groups, etc., etc.
'Made up' does not mean that authors and spiritual leaders
necessarily lied, they just built their explanations on top of
what they inherited and learned, so the philosophies of life got
enriched, diluted, modified, re-interpreted all the time.
(That is even clear from the Bible, with so many different writers,
so many often contradictory interpretations and explanations.)
New interpretations: That is also what many over the ages have been
doing. But that is fine, that gives their life meaning.
It matches and agrees with their own thinking, life experiences, etc.,
and they use lots of creative thinking to build on that.
But those beliefs will never be mine because these religious beliefs
are man-made, and historically grown beliefs divorced from physical
reality, and really only one set of beliefs out of the multitude
designed by man over the ages.
Why should I believe in somebody else's beliefs, of the unknown?
My 'beliefs' are based on what I can observe and understand, not in
beliefs inherited from others - about the unknown.
So I am free to walk my own path.
You are free to walk your own path!
Free of the bounds imposed by any man made religion!
In a sense 'walking one's own path' is also what many are doing,
but mostly still within some of the bounds of Christianity.
For me, there is no hold of 'inherited beliefs' on me whatsoever.
Of course one can learn from the past, one can learn from religions,
but these can never tell me what to believe and how to live.
That choice is mine.
And my choice is a clear rejection of Christianity and its beliefs
(as well as other religions that claim to know the unknowable),
the reasons are described in the list of my self-evident truths
(see the list after my name)
That is irrevocable because it is based on personal enlightenment,
insights and understanding that cannot be revoked.
As Galileo's belief in the earth not being the center of the solar
system and even of the universe, was --in his mind-- irrevocable.
Because he understood, he understood what he observed, he understood
physical reality, he could not deny physical reality.
The choice between what he understood from physical reality and what he
understood from what the church=religion wanted him to believe, was
very simple.
With regards,
Michael M Terra
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Self-evident truths for me:
(Whatever is self-evident for one is not necessarily self-evident
for somebody else)
1. All religions are man/woman-made
2. The Christian concept of a soul is untenable, as nowhere in the long
line of evolution the soul was suddenly inserted at a discrete point.
I.e., if we assume that the soul was inserted in a living being 1
million years ago, can we then reasonably argue that his or her father
and mother did not have a soul? We cannot. This means: All living
beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. The concept of
a soul in each human being then must be a man made pacifier.
3. There is no heaven and hell. All religions are man-made which means
these two concepts are man-made. They were created when social groups
evolved, to exert control and keep individual behavior in-line and
within boundaries so as to be beneficial to the group or its leaders.
4. The Christian dogma of sin, based on human beings having free choice
to obey or dis-obey, is untenable as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings came about. That
means in the long line of evolution there was never a discrete point
where the 'first' human beings suddenly had free choice to obey or
dis-obey. That also means the dogma of Christ's death at the cross to
atone for our sins is untenable. Human beings evolved and never
(suddenly) had free choice to obey or dis-obey (=sin).
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved through accepting
Christ as your savior is untenable. As 5 billion on earth are not
Christians, it is illogical to assume that God automatically condemns 5
billion out of 6 billion to hell.
6. All religions are man-made, which explains the huge variety of
religions. Any evolving human society evolves beliefs which then evolve
in absolute beliefs and then in absolute structured beliefs = religion.
It also explains the similarity of so many religions.
7. As all religions are man/woman made, the concept of God itself is
man-made.
As nowhere in the physical world we see any physical acts/actions by
God, there is no reason to assume that a God like the Christian God
exists. Either God is absent, is dead or does not exist.
In the recent tsunami up to 100,000 innocent children were killed.
God did not do it. Satan did not do it. The earth core is cooling,
forcing huge plates to move, which occasionaly rupture into
earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc., which cause natural
catastrophes such as the recent tsunami.
Nowhere did the 'hand of God' act anywhere.
8. The mystery of matter and why we exist does not mean we need to
assume that an all powerful being like the Christian God (or other
or similar or the same God, such as for Islam and Judaism) exists.
In the last 10,000 years more and more mysteries have been
explained, and in the coming millions of years many more mysteries will
be resolved. That means religious beliefs get pushed back more and more
away from the current simple absolute religious 'truths' and beliefs
as described in 'holy' books. That means these are manmade legends,
philosophies, myths, etc., being pushed back or voided by science
and rational explanations. That means a current religion such as
Christianity can only survive on longer terms if it develops a much
better explanation and rationale for the mystery of matter and life
and our existence.
However I think Christianity cannot 're-engineer' itself,
so it is likely it will slowly die. I am not saying that the general
human need for spirituality will disappear, but the dogmas, beliefs and
concepts of a religion such as Christianity (as well as Islam and
Judaism) will become less and less acceptable to more and more people.
The core issue is a direct conflict between the religious/emotional
approach and the scientific/rational approach. Spirituality will stay;
structured dogmatic religions based on beliefs will slowly disappear
or remain with smaller and smaller groups of the 'un-enlightened'.
.
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| User: "Mathom" |
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| Title: Re: God is absent, is dead or does not exist |
04 Mar 2005 08:19:10 AM |
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<mm2terra@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109916877.347153.105080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
All religions and therefore all gods they worship are man made.
Nowhere do I see any physical actions or acts of a god or gods.
Apparently you are not looking in the right places. I see physical signs of
God everywhere.
I see God's touch in the first flowering buds of spring, in the first breath
of a newborn child, in the dying breath of an elderly person, and in the
kind hand of a good neighbor.
I see God's touch in a rainbow, in the ability to feel emotion, in having a
moral family with good children, and in having blessings in our life that
our ancestors didn't (food, shelter, and clothing just for starters.)
I see God's touch in the ability to learn and improve our lives, in a
genuinely warm smile, in growing a vegetable or flower garden, and in a
sunbeam shining through the clouds.
And I feel God's love when I pray.
I didn't get these from anywhere, just started thinking of the places I see
God. If you don't see God, maybe you aren't looking hard enough.
Mathom
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: God is absent, is dead or does not exist |
05 Mar 2005 01:59:44 AM |
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Mathom wrote:
<mm2terra@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109916877.347153.105080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
All religions and therefore all gods they worship are man made.
Nowhere do I see any physical actions or acts of a god or gods.
Apparently you are not looking in the right places. I see physical
signs of
God everywhere.
I see God's touch in the first flowering buds of spring, in the first
breath
of a newborn child, in the dying breath of an elderly person, and in
the
kind hand of a good neighbor.
I see God's touch in a rainbow, in the ability to feel emotion, in
having a
moral family with good children, and in having blessings in our life
that
our ancestors didn't (food, shelter, and clothing just for starters.)
I see God's touch in the ability to learn and improve our lives, in a
genuinely warm smile, in growing a vegetable or flower garden, and in
a
sunbeam shining through the clouds.
And I feel God's love when I pray.
I didn't get these from anywhere, just started thinking of the places
I see
God. If you don't see God, maybe you aren't looking hard enough.
Mathom
I see the same beautiful nature but nowhere do I see a big man in the
sky or anywhere else.
Nowhere do I see a hand or touch or action of an invisible God:
The tsunami happened because the earth core is cooling which caused an
eartquake, which caused giant waves that killed 100,000.
There was no God who caused it or prevented it.
There was no Satan who caused it.
The Christian God does not exist because there are no other forces
acting than chemical, physical, biological, etc., all forces are
tied to matter, and all are explainable. Although we can only explain
a little so far, that is no reason at all to assume an 'acting'
powerful
being that controls it all. There is no sign of any actions.
It is just a belief, a made-up belief, there is no physical evidence.
A belief usually is a product of indoctrination since early childhood.
The resulting combination of belief and ignorance is typical for
non-thinkers who never question or who do not dare to question.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: God is absent, is dead or does not exist |
04 Mar 2005 04:49:38 PM |
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Mathom wrote:
<mm2terra@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109916877.347153.105080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
All religions and therefore all gods they worship are man made.
Nowhere do I see any physical actions or acts of a god or gods.
Apparently you are not looking in the right places. I see physical signs of
God everywhere.
===>You can see Allah or Krishna or YHWH or Ahura Mazda "everywhere"
you imagine seeing one of them. -- L
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