| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
28 Dec 2007 06:10:32 PM |
| Object: |
God's Ultimate Wedding Story |
God's Ultimate Wedding Story
by Tyrone Cropper
Among the titles of Christ, The Bridegroom is closely
associated with Jewish customs and also rich in
spiritual significance.
It represents the expressiveness of His covenantal
relationship with His people. The Church is depicted
as the bride of Christ and as a Bride is spiritually
united with Christ.
When we approach this illustration from a modern
perspective, viewing it through the grid of 21st Century
American marriage and courtship customs, we miss much
of the richness and depth of this picture. This is due to
the fact that in His promised return, Jesus was drawing
an analogy from Jewish marriage customs in Biblical times.
Since this is so, those marriage customs MUST be examined
if one is to grasp the significance of the promise!
In all periods of Jewish history, almost all marriages were
arranged by the young couple's respective fathers, who
were obligated to see to it that their children be married.
Thus, Jeremiah, for example, charged the exiles in Babylon,
"Take wives for your sons and give your daughters to men"
(Jer. 29:6).
During the Jewish marriage the first step was betrothal.
The betrothal involved the establishment of a marriage
covenant. During Jesus' time it was usual for such a
covenant to be established as the result of the prospective
bridegroom taking the initiative.
The prospective bridegroom would travel from his father's
house to the home of the prospective bride. "And the Word
became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of
grace and truth (John 1:14). There the bridegoom would
negotiate with the father of the young woman to determine
the price (mohar) that he must pay to purchase his bride.
"For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God
in your body and in your spirit, which are God's"
"know you not that...you are not your own? For you are
bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body,
and your spirit, which are God's" (1 Cor. 6:19-20; 7:23).
Once the bridegroom paid the purchase price, the marriage
covenant was thereby established, and the young man and
woman were regarded to be husband and wife. From that
moment on the bride was declared to be consecrated
or sanctified, set apart exclusively for her bridegroom.
"To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who
are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with
all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ
our Lord, both theirs and ours (1 Corinthians 1:20)
(See Eph. 5:25-27; 1Cor. 1:2; 6:11; Heb. 10:10; 13:12).
As a symbol of the covenant relationship that had been
established, the groom and bride would drink from a
cup of wine over which a betrothal benediction had been
pronounced. "In the same manner He also took the cup
after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in My
blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance
of Me" (1 Corinthians 11:25).
After the marriage covenant had been established, the groom
would leave the home of the bride and return to his father's
house. "Now when He had spoken these things, while they
watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out
of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward
heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them
in white apparel, who also said, Men of Galilee, why do
you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who
was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like
manner as you saw Him go into heaven" (Acts 1:9-11)
(See John 20:17).
There he would remain separate from his bride for a period
of twelve months (not thousands of years). This period of
separation from the bride gave her time to gather her bridal
clothes and linen and to prepare for married life.
In the mean time the groom made preparation for living
accommodations in his father's house to which he could
bring his bride. "In My Father's house are many mansions;
if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare
a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where
I am, there you may be also" (John 14:2-3).
At the end of the period of separation the groom would
come to take his bride to live with him. The taking of the
bride usually took place at night. "BUT concerning the
times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that
I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly
that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night"
(I Thessalonians 5:1-2).
The groom, best man and other male escorts would
leave the groom's father's house and conduct a torch light
procession to the home of the bride. Although the bride
was expecting her groom to come for her, she did not
know the exact time of his coming. "But of that day
and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,
but My Father only" (Matthew 24:36).
As a result the groom's arrival would be preceded by a
shout. This shout would forewarn the bride to be prepared
for the coming of the groom. "For the Lord Himself will
descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an
archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead
in Christ will rise first" (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
After the groom received his bride together with her female
attendants, the enlarged wedding party would return from
the bride's home to the groom's father's house. "Then
a voice came from the throne, saying, Praise our God,
all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small
and great!. And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great
multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound
of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia! For the Lord God
Omnipotent reigns! Let us be glad and rejoice and give
Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and
His wife has made herself ready. And to her it was granted
to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine
linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said
to me, Write: Blessed are those who are called to the
marriage supper of the Lamb! And he said to me,
These are the true sayings of God" (Revelation 19:5-9).
Upon arrival there the wedding party would find that the
wedding guests had assembled already. "Then he said to his
servants, The wedding is ready, but those who were invited
were not worthy. Therefore go into the highways, and as
many as you find, invite to the wedding. So those servants
went out into the highways and gathered together all whom
they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was
filled with guests" (Matthew 22:8-10).
Shortly after arrival the bride and groom would be escorted
by the other members of the wedding party to the bridal
chamber. Prior to entering the chamber the bride remained
veiled so that no one could see her face. While the
groomsmen and bridesmaids would wait outside, the bride
and groom would enter the bridal chamber alone. There
in the privacy of that place they would enter into physical
union for the first time, thereby consummating the marriage
that had been covenanted earlier.
After the marriage was consummated, the groom would
announce the consummation to the members of the
wedding party waiting outside the chamber. "He who
has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the
bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly
because of the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy
of mine is fulfilled" (John 3:29).
Scripture also speaks of gifts given to the bride by her
father. These are termed shiluhim, (literally, "parting
gifts"), and carry the same idea as the traditional dowry.
These gifts were intended to help equip the bride for
her new life.
Why is this important to understand the Jewish marriage
customs of Jesus’ time? Apart from the general insight
that such a study gives us into Scripture and into our
relationship with the Lord, we see that our God is a God
who pays meticulous attention to detail, who fulfills
according to His word what He has established, who was
willing to pay an inconceivably high price to secure a Bride
for His Son, and who did not fail to send His Son back to
reclaim His Beloved. "Assuredly, I say to you, all these
things will come upon this generation" (Matthew 24:36).
---------------------------------------------------------------------
<added>
And this is the picture given in Revelation, regarding
the New Jerusalem. It is not a literal city, but a
symbolic picture of the wedding of the Lamb
(the bridegroom) to His bride (the church) at His
return. The Bible tells us this is so and makes no
mention whatsoever of it being a physically literal
city anywhere!.
Let us read the Scripture together and see for ourselves. :)
Revelation 21:2,9-10
2) Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem,
coming down out of heaven from God, prepared
as a bride adorned for her husband.
9) Then one of the seven angels who had the seven
bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me
and talked with me, saying, Come, I will show you
the bride, the Lamb’s wife.
10) And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great
and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the
holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.
Note: John sees the New Jerusalem coming down
out of heaven (v2).
Note: The angel says to John that he (the angel)
is going to show him (John) "the bride of
the Lamb" (v9).
Note: The angel shows John the New Jerusalem
(v10).
Conclusion: The bride of the Lamb is New Jerusalem.
Now most will not want to hear this. But that is
the same as saying, "I do not want to hear Scripture,
because it interferes with my doctrine".
And they will probably point to the following verses,
which in essence, is an attempt to put Scripture
against Scripture, when you think about it, since
it is an attempt to reject what they just saw.
Revelation 21:10-21
10) And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great
and high mountain, and showed me the great city,
the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from
God.
11) having the glory of God. Her light was like a most
precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal.
12) Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates,
and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on
them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the
children of Israel:
13) three gates on the east, three gates on the north,
three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14) Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations,
and on them were the names of the twelve apostles
of the Lamb.
15) And he who talked with me had a gold reed to
measure the city, its gates, and its wall.
16) The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great
as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed:
twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height
are equal.
17) Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty
four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is,
of an angel.
18) The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the
city was pure gold, like clear glass.
19) The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned
with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation
was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony,
the fourth emerald
20) the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh
chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth
chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.
21) The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual
gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure
gold, like transparent glass.
This sure sounds like a literal city, huh?!
Actually, no, it doesn't. Who has ever heard of a city
like this?!
Now let's look at what Paul wrote about the city,
which he did reference...
Ephesians 2:19-22
19) Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers
and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints
and members of the household of God,
20) having been built on the foundation of the
apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being
the chief cornerstone,
21) in whom the whole building, being fitted together,
grows into a holy temple in the Lord,
22) in whom you also are being built together for
a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
As you can see... Paul talks about the chief cornerstone
being Christ and the foundation being the Apostles, etc..
Now let us look at a comparison...
Ephesians 2:19-22
19) Now therefore ye are no more strangers
and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints,
and of the household of God;
"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem,
coming down from God out of heaven, prepared
as a bride adorned for her husband." - Rev 21:2
20) And are built upon the foundation of the
Apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself
being the chief corner stone;
"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations,
and in them the names of the twelve apostles of
the Lamb." - Rev 21:14
21) In whom all the building fitly framed together
groweth unto a holy Temple in the Lord:
22) In whom ye also are builded together for
a habitation of God through the Spirit.
"And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God
Almighty and the Lamb are the Temple of it."
- Rev 21:22
Now what do you say? Scripture is interpreting
Scripture here. Can you now admit that it all fits
together this way? Or will your stubbornness
and vanity win out again? That's a serious question
for everyone to think about, not an attack.
It is "through the Spirit", as it says. Not "through
the body", as you currently believe.
"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God."
- 1 Cor 15:50
But let us look at the rest of Revelation 21 and see
what it says...
Revelation 21:22-27
22) But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty
and the Lamb are its temple.
If God and the Lamb (Christ) are the temple of it and
this is physically literal, that would mean two things...
1) God will have to become physical, since the Bible
says that "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24).
2) In order to go into the temple, we will have to
literally walk into God and Christ. Thus, they
would have to become physical buildings.
23) The city had no need of the Sun or of the Moon
to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it.
The Lamb is its light.
This is how John opened his Gospel...
"In him was life; and the life was the light of men."
- John 1:4
So why couldn't this just be saying that in Christ
is life and that we are manifested as having eternal
life in Christ, at the wedding?
In fact, it can be manifested even before that,
since Jesus told His disciples...
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see
your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."
- Matthew 5:16
Now where does that light within us come from?
24) And the nations of those who are saved shall walk
in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory
and honor into it.
25) Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall
be no night there).
26) And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the
nations into it.
27) But there shall by no means enter it anything that
defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only
those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
Now why would this be an issue, if all evil people are
supposedly gone and only Christians, in their "super,
sci-fi type, live forever" bodies are on this supposedly
physically literal "new earth", with a supposedly
physically literal "New Jerusalem"? This wouldn't
need to be said at all, if that were the case!
But the fact is, that since it is actually a symbolic
representation of the Lamb being wed to the bride,
it is about the Kingdom of God, which is within us.
Luke 17:20-21
20) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees,
when the kingdom of God should come, he answered
them and said, The kingdom of God cometh NOT
with observation:
21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, Lo there!
for, behold, the kingdom of God is WITHIN you.
And therefore, of course, nothing evil can enter
the Kingdom of God!
And speaking of the "gates" mentioned in v24 above,
let us take a look at what else Scripture has to say
about the New Jerusalem, in the next chapter. And
let's keep in mind, that this is all AFTER there is
supposedly (according to the Futurist doctrine)
a physically new Earth and the New Jerusalem
supposedly physically comes down from Heaven
and all sinners have been judged and were thrown
into the lake of fire, so they are gone, gone, gone!!!
Revelation 22:14-15
14) Blessed are those who do His commandments,
that they may have the right to the tree of life,
and may enter through the gates into the city.
15) But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually
immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever
loves and practices a lie.
Now according to Scripture (and assuming your
doctrine to be correct), this would mean that even
after all sinners on the planet have been judged
and thrown into the lake of fire and even the
old Earth is gone, that outside of New Jerusalem,
there are sinners, on this new Earth, committing
horrendous sins!!!
There are sorcerers!
There are people committing sexual immorality!
There are murderers!
There are idolaters!
There are people who love and practice lies!
Now if the Futurist doctrine is right, then where did
these people come from?! The Futurist doctrine has
NO explanation for this! But Scripture is true ("let
God be true, but every man a liar" - Rom 3:4)!!!
Their supposedly "perfect forever, sinless world
on which God now lives", has become no better
than what we see today, except for one city!
And since God cannot be in the presence of sin,
their now physical God has become a fugitive,
holed up in a city, unable to come out, because
sin is present outside of that city!
So either it is as a said and the Futurists have
it wrong, or, the Futurists are right and there
is no point in it at all, because their hope that
they claim to have, according to Scripture
(if their doctrine is right), the world becomes
a horrible place again and God and His Christ
were unable to truly and permanently save us
(assuming the physical doctrine they believe
in is true)!
So when I state that Christ did return and they
demand to know from me where this perfect
world is, because they say He couldn't have
returned, because sin is still present, the reality
is, that what they are waiting for, is no better
than what is right now!
But have no fear, folks! The doctrine will be
more important to them than the truth, which
is that it is symbolism and that the Kingdom
of God is within us, not without and they will
make sure to try to denigrate me, thinking
that this means that they have proved me wrong!
Why will they do this? Simple! Because to them,
it is this world and the physical that are important!
This of course, is contrary to what Paul said...
"If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things
which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right
hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on
things on the earth." - Colossians 3:1-2
Folks, our citizenship is not here on Earth!
It is in Heaven! And the Bible says so!
"For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also
eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ."
- Philippians 3:20
....because our citizenship is in the Jerusalem in Heaven,
to which we have already come! And we have already
come to Mount Zion (which Futurists foolishly wait to
see happen physically), because we are already risen
with Christ, as Scripture says (see above)...
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city
of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an
innumerable company of angels." - Hebrews 12:22
And even the patriarchs knew that!...
Hebrews 11:8-16
8) By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to
go out to the place which he would receive as an
inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where
he was going.
9) By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in
a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and
Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise;
10) for he waited for the city which has foundations,
whose builder and maker is God.
11) By faith Sarah herself also received strength to
conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was
past the age, because she judged Him faithful who
had promised.
12) Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead,
were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude,
innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
13) These all died in faith, not having received the
promises, but having seen them afar off were assured
of them, embraced them and confessed that they were
strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14) For those who say such things declare plainly that
they seek a homeland.
15) And truly if they had called to mind that country
from which they had come out, they would have had
opportunity to return.
16) But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly
country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called
their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
Notice above, that even after they had entered the
earthly Promised Land, they still sought a homeland!
That's because their homeland was not on Earth!
It was in Heaven! In the city that God had prepared
for them!
So what have we learned here? That it isn't about this
Earth! It can't be, or all we have to look forward to,
is another planet with some good people and mostly
sinners, both of whom will live forever! Is that really
a hope that you want to have? It is the Futurist hope,
whether they want to admit it or not! And this has
been pointed out to them and yet, they refuse to
give up this false doctrine! But if that is not your hope,
then you must abandon the Futurist doctrine, because
that's what it is forced to state, given what Scripture
has to say about it!
I pray that you will all place truth and God's word above
all else and will not take the road of trying to pit
Scripture against Scripture, to try to hang on to
a doctrine that leaves God holed up in a city and us
fighting off the immoral sinners at the city gates!
That doesn't sound like "paradise" to me! Rather,
it sounds like we'll be fighting a never ending,
eternal war!
--
The church does not determine what Scripture teaches;
Scripture determines what the church teaches.
If a tradition or experience is contrary to the
teachings of Scripture, it is not of the Lord.
Reason is a significant authority. But it too,
must be placed under the dominion of Scripture.
In other words, we cannot seek Biblical truths,
while questioning the authority of the Bible.
.
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| User: "Semper Libčr®" |
|
| Title: Re: God's Ultimate Wedding Story |
29 Dec 2007 06:37:36 PM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j34bn3lntbnp28o6vv44rgrtf20lchb71r@4ax.com...
God's Ultimate Wedding Story
by Tyrone Cropper
Among the titles of Christ, The Bridegroom is closely
associated with Jewish customs and also rich in
spiritual significance.
It represents the expressiveness of His covenantal
relationship with His people. The Church is depicted
as the bride of Christ and as a Bride is spiritually
united with Christ.
When we approach this illustration from a modern
perspective, viewing it through the grid of 21st Century
American marriage and courtship customs, we miss much
of the richness and depth of this picture. This is due to
the fact that in His promised return, Jesus was drawing
an analogy from Jewish marriage customs in Biblical times.
Since this is so, those marriage customs MUST be examined
if one is to grasp the significance of the promise!
In all periods of Jewish history, almost all marriages were
arranged by the young couple's respective fathers, who
were obligated to see to it that their children be married.
Thus, Jeremiah, for example, charged the exiles in Babylon,
"Take wives for your sons and give your daughters to men"
(Jer. 29:6).
During the Jewish marriage the first step was betrothal.
The betrothal involved the establishment of a marriage
covenant. During Jesus' time it was usual for such a
covenant to be established as the result of the prospective
bridegroom taking the initiative.
The prospective bridegroom would travel from his father's
house to the home of the prospective bride. "And the Word
became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of
grace and truth (John 1:14). There the bridegoom would
negotiate with the father of the young woman to determine
the price (mohar) that he must pay to purchase his bride.
"For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God
in your body and in your spirit, which are God's"
"know you not that...you are not your own? For you are
bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body,
and your spirit, which are God's" (1 Cor. 6:19-20; 7:23).
Once the bridegroom paid the purchase price, the marriage
covenant was thereby established, and the young man and
woman were regarded to be husband and wife. From that
moment on the bride was declared to be consecrated
or sanctified, set apart exclusively for her bridegroom.
"To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who
are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with
all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ
our Lord, both theirs and ours (1 Corinthians 1:20)
(See Eph. 5:25-27; 1Cor. 1:2; 6:11; Heb. 10:10; 13:12).
As a symbol of the covenant relationship that had been
established, the groom and bride would drink from a
cup of wine over which a betrothal benediction had been
pronounced. "In the same manner He also took the cup
after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in My
blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance
of Me" (1 Corinthians 11:25).
After the marriage covenant had been established, the groom
would leave the home of the bride and return to his father's
house. "Now when He had spoken these things, while they
watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out
of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward
heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them
in white apparel, who also said, Men of Galilee, why do
you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who
was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like
manner as you saw Him go into heaven" (Acts 1:9-11)
(See John 20:17).
There he would remain separate from his bride for a period
of twelve months (not thousands of years).
Unless of course we happen to be talking about a marriage involving an
eternal Groon, and a Bride consisting of multiple generations of
individuals.... (ie the Church, which is still being built)
Rom 12:5 so we the many are one body in Christ, and each one members of one
another.
1Co 10:17 For we, the many, are one bread and one body; for we are all
partakers of that one bread.
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, and all the members
of that one body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For also by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether
Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free, even all were made to drink into one
Spirit.
1Co 12:20 But now indeed many are the members, yet only one body.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope
of your calling,
and assuming time is measured differently by this Groom....
Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in Your sight are as yesterday when it is
past, and as a watch in the night.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that one
day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Which puts a much different spin on the marriage symbology and practice...
This period of
separation from the bride gave her time to gather her bridal
clothes and linen and to prepare for married life.
In the mean time the groom made preparation for living
accommodations in his father's house to which he could
bring his bride. "In My Father's house are many mansions;
if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare
a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where
I am, there you may be also" (John 14:2-3).
At the end of the period of separation the groom would
come to take his bride to live with him. The taking of the
bride usually took place at night. "BUT concerning the
times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that
I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly
that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night"
(I Thessalonians 5:1-2).
The groom, best man and other male escorts would
leave the groom's father's house and conduct a torch light
procession to the home of the bride. Although the bride
was expecting her groom to come for her, she did not
know the exact time of his coming. "But of that day
and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,
but My Father only" (Matthew 24:36).
As a result the groom's arrival would be preceded by a
shout. This shout would forewarn the bride to be prepared
for the coming of the groom. "For the Lord Himself will
descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an
archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead
in Christ will rise first" (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
After the groom received his bride together with her female
attendants, the enlarged wedding party would return from
the bride's home to the groom's father's house. "Then
a voice came from the throne, saying, Praise our God,
all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small
and great!. And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great
multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound
of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia! For the Lord God
Omnipotent reigns! Let us be glad and rejoice and give
Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and
His wife has made herself ready. And to her it was granted
to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine
linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said
to me, Write: Blessed are those who are called to the
marriage supper of the Lamb! And he said to me,
These are the true sayings of God" (Revelation 19:5-9).
Upon arrival there the wedding party would find that the
wedding guests had assembled already. "Then he said to his
servants, The wedding is ready, but those who were invited
were not worthy. Therefore go into the highways, and as
many as you find, invite to the wedding. So those servants
went out into the highways and gathered together all whom
they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was
filled with guests" (Matthew 22:8-10).
Shortly after arrival the bride and groom would be escorted
by the other members of the wedding party to the bridal
chamber. Prior to entering the chamber the bride remained
veiled so that no one could see her face. While the
groomsmen and bridesmaids would wait outside, the bride
and groom would enter the bridal chamber alone. There
in the privacy of that place they would enter into physical
union for the first time, thereby consummating the marriage
that had been covenanted earlier.
After the marriage was consummated, the groom would
announce the consummation to the members of the
wedding party waiting outside the chamber. "He who
has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the
bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly
because of the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy
of mine is fulfilled" (John 3:29).
Scripture also speaks of gifts given to the bride by her
father. These are termed shiluhim, (literally, "parting
gifts"), and carry the same idea as the traditional dowry.
These gifts were intended to help equip the bride for
her new life.
Why is this important to understand the Jewish marriage
customs of Jesus' time? Apart from the general insight
that such a study gives us into Scripture and into our
relationship with the Lord, we see that our God is a God
who pays meticulous attention to detail, who fulfills
according to His word what He has established, who was
willing to pay an inconceivably high price to secure a Bride
for His Son, and who did not fail to send His Son back to
reclaim His Beloved. "Assuredly, I say to you, all these
things will come upon this generation" (Matthew 24:36).
---------------------------------------------------------------------
<added>
And this is the picture given in Revelation, regarding
the New Jerusalem. It is not a literal city, but a
symbolic picture of the wedding of the Lamb
(the bridegroom) to His bride (the church) at His
return. The Bible tells us this is so and makes no
mention whatsoever of it being a physically literal
city anywhere!.
Let us read the Scripture together and see for ourselves. :)
Revelation 21:2,9-10
2) Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem,
coming down out of heaven from God, prepared
as a bride adorned for her husband.
9) Then one of the seven angels who had the seven
bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me
and talked with me, saying, Come, I will show you
the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10) And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great
and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the
holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.
Note: John sees the New Jerusalem coming down
out of heaven (v2).
Note: The angel says to John that he (the angel)
is going to show him (John) "the bride of
the Lamb" (v9).
Note: The angel shows John the New Jerusalem
(v10).
Conclusion: The bride of the Lamb is New Jerusalem.
Now most will not want to hear this. But that is
the same as saying, "I do not want to hear Scripture,
because it interferes with my doctrine".
And they will probably point to the following verses,
which in essence, is an attempt to put Scripture
against Scripture, when you think about it, since
it is an attempt to reject what they just saw.
Revelation 21:10-21
10) And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great
and high mountain, and showed me the great city,
the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from
God.
11) having the glory of God. Her light was like a most
precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal.
12) Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates,
and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on
them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the
children of Israel:
13) three gates on the east, three gates on the north,
three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14) Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations,
and on them were the names of the twelve apostles
of the Lamb.
15) And he who talked with me had a gold reed to
measure the city, its gates, and its wall.
16) The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great
as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed:
twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height
are equal.
17) Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty
four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is,
of an angel.
18) The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the
city was pure gold, like clear glass.
19) The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned
with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation
was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony,
the fourth emerald
20) the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh
chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth
chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.
21) The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual
gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure
gold, like transparent glass.
This sure sounds like a literal city, huh?!
Actually, no, it doesn't. Who has ever heard of a city
like this?!
Now let's look at what Paul wrote about the city,
which he did reference...
Ephesians 2:19-22
19) Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers
and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints
and members of the household of God,
20) having been built on the foundation of the
apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being
the chief cornerstone,
21) in whom the whole building, being fitted together,
grows into a holy temple in the Lord,
22) in whom you also are being built together for
a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
As you can see... Paul talks about the chief cornerstone
being Christ and the foundation being the Apostles, etc..
Now let us look at a comparison...
Ephesians 2:19-22
19) Now therefore ye are no more strangers
and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints,
and of the household of God;
"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem,
coming down from God out of heaven, prepared
as a bride adorned for her husband." - Rev 21:2
20) And are built upon the foundation of the
Apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself
being the chief corner stone;
"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations,
and in them the names of the twelve apostles of
the Lamb." - Rev 21:14
21) In whom all the building fitly framed together
groweth unto a holy Temple in the Lord:
22) In whom ye also are builded together for
a habitation of God through the Spirit.
"And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God
Almighty and the Lamb are the Temple of it."
- Rev 21:22
Now what do you say? Scripture is interpreting
Scripture here. Can you now admit that it all fits
together this way? Or will your stubbornness
and vanity win out again? That's a serious question
for everyone to think about, not an attack.
It is "through the Spirit", as it says. Not "through
the body", as you currently believe.
"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God."
- 1 Cor 15:50
But let us look at the rest of Revelation 21 and see
what it says...
Revelation 21:22-27
22) But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty
and the Lamb are its temple.
If God and the Lamb (Christ) are the temple of it and
this is physically literal, that would mean two things...
1) God will have to become physical, since the Bible
says that "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24).
2) In order to go into the temple, we will have to
literally walk into God and Christ. Thus, they
would have to become physical buildings.
23) The city had no need of the Sun or of the Moon
to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it.
The Lamb is its light.
This is how John opened his Gospel...
"In him was life; and the life was the light of men."
- John 1:4
So why couldn't this just be saying that in Christ
is life and that we are manifested as having eternal
life in Christ, at the wedding?
In fact, it can be manifested even before that,
since Jesus told His disciples...
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see
your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."
- Matthew 5:16
Now where does that light within us come from?
24) And the nations of those who are saved shall walk
in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory
and honor into it.
25) Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall
be no night there).
26) And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the
nations into it.
27) But there shall by no means enter it anything that
defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only
those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.
Now why would this be an issue, if all evil people are
supposedly gone and only Christians, in their "super,
sci-fi type, live forever" bodies are on this supposedly
physically literal "new earth", with a supposedly
physically literal "New Jerusalem"? This wouldn't
need to be said at all, if that were the case!
But the fact is, that since it is actually a symbolic
representation of the Lamb being wed to the bride,
it is about the Kingdom of God, which is within us.
Luke 17:20-21
20) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees,
when the kingdom of God should come, he answered
them and said, The kingdom of God cometh NOT
with observation:
21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, Lo there!
for, behold, the kingdom of God is WITHIN you.
And therefore, of course, nothing evil can enter
the Kingdom of God!
And speaking of the "gates" mentioned in v24 above,
let us take a look at what else Scripture has to say
about the New Jerusalem, in the next chapter. And
let's keep in mind, that this is all AFTER there is
supposedly (according to the Futurist doctrine)
a physically new Earth and the New Jerusalem
supposedly physically comes down from Heaven
and all sinners have been judged and were thrown
into the lake of fire, so they are gone, gone, gone!!!
Revelation 22:14-15
14) Blessed are those who do His commandments,
that they may have the right to the tree of life,
and may enter through the gates into the city.
15) But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually
immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever
loves and practices a lie.
Now according to Scripture (and assuming your
doctrine to be correct), this would mean that even
after all sinners on the planet have been judged
and thrown into the lake of fire and even the
old Earth is gone, that outside of New Jerusalem,
there are sinners, on this new Earth, committing
horrendous sins!!!
There are sorcerers!
There are people committing sexual immorality!
There are murderers!
There are idolaters!
There are people who love and practice lies!
Now if the Futurist doctrine is right, then where did
these people come from?! The Futurist doctrine has
NO explanation for this! But Scripture is true ("let
God be true, but every man a liar" - Rom 3:4)!!!
Their supposedly "perfect forever, sinless world
on which God now lives", has become no better
than what we see today, except for one city!
And since God cannot be in the presence of sin,
their now physical God has become a fugitive,
holed up in a city, unable to come out, because
sin is present outside of that city!
So either it is as a said and the Futurists have
it wrong, or, the Futurists are right and there
is no point in it at all, because their hope that
they claim to have, according to Scripture
(if their doctrine is right), the world becomes
a horrible place again and God and His Christ
were unable to truly and permanently save us
(assuming the physical doctrine they believe
in is true)!
So when I state that Christ did return and they
demand to know from me where this perfect
world is, because they say He couldn't have
returned, because sin is still present, the reality
is, that what they are waiting for, is no better
than what is right now!
But have no fear, folks! The doctrine will be
more important to them than the truth, which
is that it is symbolism and that the Kingdom
of God is within us, not without and they will
make sure to try to denigrate me, thinking
that this means that they have proved me wrong!
Why will they do this? Simple! Because to them,
it is this world and the physical that are important!
This of course, is contrary to what Paul said...
"If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things
which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right
hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on
things on the earth." - Colossians 3:1-2
Folks, our citizenship is not here on Earth!
It is in Heaven! And the Bible says so!
"For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also
eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ."
- Philippians 3:20
...because our citizenship is in the Jerusalem in Heaven,
to which we have already come! And we have already
come to Mount Zion (which Futurists foolishly wait to
see happen physically), because we are already risen
with Christ, as Scripture says (see above)...
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city
of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an
innumerable company of angels." - Hebrews 12:22
And even the patriarchs knew that!...
Hebrews 11:8-16
8) By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to
go out to the place which he would receive as an
inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where
he was going.
9) By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in
a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and
Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise;
10) for he waited for the city which has foundations,
whose builder and maker is God.
11) By faith Sarah herself also received strength to
conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was
past the age, because she judged Him faithful who
had promised.
12) Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead,
were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude,
innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
13) These all died in faith, not having received the
promises, but having seen them afar off were assured
of them, embraced them and confessed that they were
strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14) For those who say such things declare plainly that
they seek a homeland.
15) And truly if they had called to mind that country
from which they had come out, they would have had
opportunity to return.
16) But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly
country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called
their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
Notice above, that even after they had entered the
earthly Promised Land, they still sought a homeland!
That's because their homeland was not on Earth!
It was in Heaven! In the city that God had prepared
for them!
So what have we learned here? That it isn't about this
Earth! It can't be, or all we have to look forward to,
is another planet with some good people and mostly
sinners, both of whom will live forever! Is that really
a hope that you want to have? It is the Futurist hope,
whether they want to admit it or not! And this has
been pointed out to them and yet, they refuse to
give up this false doctrine! But if that is not your hope,
then you must abandon the Futurist doctrine, because
that's what it is forced to state, given what Scripture
has to say about it!
I pray that you will all place truth and God's word above
all else and will not take the road of trying to pit
Scripture against Scripture, to try to hang on to
a doctrine that leaves God holed up in a city and us
fighting off the immoral sinners at the city gates!
That doesn't sound like "paradise" to me! Rather,
it sounds like we'll be fighting a never ending,
eternal war!
--
The church does not determine what Scripture teaches;
Scripture determines what the church teaches.
If a tradition or experience is contrary to the
teachings of Scripture, it is not of the Lord.
Reason is a significant authority. But it too,
must be placed under the dominion of Scripture.
In other words, we cannot seek Biblical truths,
while questioning the authority of the Bible.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: God's Ultimate Wedding Story |
30 Dec 2007 07:43:04 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 00:37:36 GMT, "Semper Libčr®"
<nopolicestates?????Hje77@freedom4all.org> said the
following:
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j34bn3lntbnp28o6vv44rgrtf20lchb71r@4ax.com...
God's Ultimate Wedding Story
by Tyrone Cropper
Among the titles of Christ, The Bridegroom is closely
associated with Jewish customs and also rich in
spiritual significance.
It represents the expressiveness of His covenantal
relationship with His people. The Church is depicted
as the bride of Christ and as a Bride is spiritually
united with Christ.
When we approach this illustration from a modern
perspective, viewing it through the grid of 21st Century
American marriage and courtship customs, we miss much
of the richness and depth of this picture. This is due to
the fact that in His promised return, Jesus was drawing
an analogy from Jewish marriage customs in Biblical times.
Since this is so, those marriage customs MUST be examined
if one is to grasp the significance of the promise!
In all periods of Jewish history, almost all marriages were
arranged by the young couple's respective fathers, who
were obligated to see to it that their children be married.
Thus, Jeremiah, for example, charged the exiles in Babylon,
"Take wives for your sons and give your daughters to men"
(Jer. 29:6).
During the Jewish marriage the first step was betrothal.
The betrothal involved the establishment of a marriage
covenant. During Jesus' time it was usual for such a
covenant to be established as the result of the prospective
bridegroom taking the initiative.
The prospective bridegroom would travel from his father's
house to the home of the prospective bride. "And the Word
became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of
grace and truth (John 1:14). There the bridegoom would
negotiate with the father of the young woman to determine
the price (mohar) that he must pay to purchase his bride.
"For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God
in your body and in your spirit, which are God's"
"know you not that...you are not your own? For you are
bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body,
and your spirit, which are God's" (1 Cor. 6:19-20; 7:23).
Once the bridegroom paid the purchase price, the marriage
covenant was thereby established, and the young man and
woman were regarded to be husband and wife. From that
moment on the bride was declared to be consecrated
or sanctified, set apart exclusively for her bridegroom.
"To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who
are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with
all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ
our Lord, both theirs and ours (1 Corinthians 1:20)
(See Eph. 5:25-27; 1Cor. 1:2; 6:11; Heb. 10:10; 13:12).
As a symbol of the covenant relationship that had been
established, the groom and bride would drink from a
cup of wine over which a betrothal benediction had been
pronounced. "In the same manner He also took the cup
after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in My
blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance
of Me" (1 Corinthians 11:25).
After the marriage covenant had been established, the groom
would leave the home of the bride and return to his father's
house. "Now when He had spoken these things, while they
watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out
of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward
heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them
in white apparel, who also said, Men of Galilee, why do
you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who
was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like
manner as you saw Him go into heaven" (Acts 1:9-11)
(See John 20:17).
There he would remain separate from his bride for a period
of twelve months (not thousands of years).
Unless of course we happen to be talking about a marriage involving an
eternal Groon, and a Bride consisting of multiple generations of
individuals.... (ie the Church, which is still being built)
In other words, it's thousands of years,
because you said so.
Rom 12:5 so we the many are one body in Christ, and each one members of one
another.
1Co 10:17 For we, the many, are one bread and one body; for we are all
partakers of that one bread.
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, and all the members
of that one body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For also by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether
Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free, even all were made to drink into one
Spirit.
1Co 12:20 But now indeed many are the members, yet only one body.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope
of your calling,
and assuming time is measured differently by this Groom....
Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in Your sight are as yesterday when it is
past, and as a watch in the night.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that one
day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Which puts a much different spin on the marriage symbology and practice...
In other words, you aren't too bright and thought you'd
misuse this passage to claim that God has "1,000 year days"
but also claim that God isn't bound by time.
--
"...as far as they agree with the Scriptures; but we
modestly dissent from them when they are found to set
down things differing from, or altogether contrary to,
the Scriptures.... And in the same order also we place
the decrees and canons of councils. Wherefore we do
not permit ourselves, in controversies about religion
or matters of faith, to urge our case with only the
opinions of the fathers or decrees of councils; much
less by received opinions, or by the large number of
those who share the same opinion, or by the prescription
of a long time." - Second Helvetic Confession
.
|
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|
| User: "Semper Libčr®" |
|
| Title: Re: God's Ultimate Wedding Story |
02 Jan 2008 06:06:11 PM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:o08fn3l1erhotm1b0ani66pvsqccjffdai@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 00:37:36 GMT, "Semper Libčr®"
<nopolicestates?????Hje77@freedom4all.org> said the
following:
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j34bn3lntbnp28o6vv44rgrtf20lchb71r@4ax.com...
God's Ultimate Wedding Story
by Tyrone Cropper
Among the titles of Christ, The Bridegroom is closely
associated with Jewish customs and also rich in
spiritual significance.
It represents the expressiveness of His covenantal
relationship with His people. The Church is depicted
as the bride of Christ and as a Bride is spiritually
united with Christ.
When we approach this illustration from a modern
perspective, viewing it through the grid of 21st Century
American marriage and courtship customs, we miss much
of the richness and depth of this picture. This is due to
the fact that in His promised return, Jesus was drawing
an analogy from Jewish marriage customs in Biblical times.
Since this is so, those marriage customs MUST be examined
if one is to grasp the significance of the promise!
In all periods of Jewish history, almost all marriages were
arranged by the young couple's respective fathers, who
were obligated to see to it that their children be married.
Thus, Jeremiah, for example, charged the exiles in Babylon,
"Take wives for your sons and give your daughters to men"
(Jer. 29:6).
During the Jewish marriage the first step was betrothal.
The betrothal involved the establishment of a marriage
covenant. During Jesus' time it was usual for such a
covenant to be established as the result of the prospective
bridegroom taking the initiative.
The prospective bridegroom would travel from his father's
house to the home of the prospective bride. "And the Word
became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of
grace and truth (John 1:14). There the bridegoom would
negotiate with the father of the young woman to determine
the price (mohar) that he must pay to purchase his bride.
"For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God
in your body and in your spirit, which are God's"
"know you not that...you are not your own? For you are
bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body,
and your spirit, which are God's" (1 Cor. 6:19-20; 7:23).
Once the bridegroom paid the purchase price, the marriage
covenant was thereby established, and the young man and
woman were regarded to be husband and wife. From that
moment on the bride was declared to be consecrated
or sanctified, set apart exclusively for her bridegroom.
"To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who
are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with
all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ
our Lord, both theirs and ours (1 Corinthians 1:20)
(See Eph. 5:25-27; 1Cor. 1:2; 6:11; Heb. 10:10; 13:12).
As a symbol of the covenant relationship that had been
established, the groom and bride would drink from a
cup of wine over which a betrothal benediction had been
pronounced. "In the same manner He also took the cup
after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in My
blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance
of Me" (1 Corinthians 11:25).
After the marriage covenant had been established, the groom
would leave the home of the bride and return to his father's
house. "Now when He had spoken these things, while they
watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out
of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward
heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them
in white apparel, who also said, Men of Galilee, why do
you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who
was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like
manner as you saw Him go into heaven" (Acts 1:9-11)
(See John 20:17).
There he would remain separate from his bride for a period
of twelve months (not thousands of years).
Unless of course we happen to be talking about a marriage involving an
eternal Groon, and a Bride consisting of multiple generations of
individuals.... (ie the Church, which is still being built)
In other words, it's thousands of years,
because you said so.
Rom 12:5 so we the many are one body in Christ, and each one members of
one
another.
1Co 10:17 For we, the many, are one bread and one body; for we are all
partakers of that one bread.
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, and all the
members
of that one body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For also by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body,
whether
Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free, even all were made to drink into
one
Spirit.
1Co 12:20 But now indeed many are the members, yet only one body.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one
hope
of your calling,
and assuming time is measured differently by this Groom....
Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in Your sight are as yesterday when it is
past, and as a watch in the night.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that one
day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one
day.
Which puts a much different spin on the marriage symbology and
practice...
In other words, you aren't too bright and thought you'd
misuse this passage to claim that God has "1,000 year days"
but also claim that God isn't bound by time.
Speaking of not too bright.... If this passage describes anything obvious at
all, its that God works on a different time scale than WE do.
To then further reduce it to absurdity, you then want to conclude that God's
church only lives as long as a common individual, when we are talking about
a vast body of people stretching many generations... .
If you want to make direct comparisons, then by your measure, Yeshua should
only have married one woman, or He'd be guilty of adultery.
Everyone from the first day of Pentecost to this day is ONE body, and that
body is the Bride, and Yeshua will come 'like a thief in the night' to take
his bride 'to His Fathers house' for the bridal week... That is the theme of
the feast of Trumpets. The feasts are >shadows< of real events....
--
"...as far as they agree with the Scriptures; but we
modestly dissent from them when they are found to set
down things differing from, or altogether contrary to,
the Scriptures.... And in the same order also we place
the decrees and canons of councils. Wherefore we do
not permit ourselves, in controversies about religion
or matters of faith, to urge our case with only the
opinions of the fathers or decrees of councils; much
less by received opinions, or by the large number of
those who share the same opinion, or by the prescription
of a long time." - Second Helvetic Confession
.
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| User: "Mistylein" |
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| Title: Re: God's Ultimate Wedding Story |
04 Jan 2008 04:36:31 PM |
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"Semper Libčr®" <nopolicestates?????Hje77@freedom4all.org> wrote in message
news:TFVej.43852$UZ4.26147@edtnps89...
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:o08fn3l1erhotm1b0ani66pvsqccjffdai@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 00:37:36 GMT, "Semper Libčr®"
<nopolicestates?????Hje77@freedom4all.org> said the
following:
sniper ze older<
Unless of course we happen to be talking about a marriage involving an
eternal Groon, and a Bride consisting of multiple generations of
individuals.... (ie the Church, which is still being built)
In other words, it's thousands of years,
because you said so.
Rom 12:5 so we the many are one body in Christ, and each one members of
one
another.
1Co 10:17 For we, the many, are one bread and one body; for we are all
partakers of that one bread.
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, and all the
members
of that one body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For also by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body,
whether
Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free, even all were made to drink into
one
Spirit.
1Co 12:20 But now indeed many are the members, yet only one body.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one
hope
of your calling,
and assuming time is measured differently by this Groom....
Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in Your sight are as yesterday when it is
past, and as a watch in the night.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that
one
day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one
day.
Which puts a much different spin on the marriage symbology and
practice...
In other words, you aren't too bright and thought you'd
misuse this passage to claim that God has "1,000 year days"
but also claim that God isn't bound by time.
Speaking of not too bright.... If this passage describes anything obvious
at
all, its that God works on a different time scale than WE do.
To then further reduce it to absurdity, you then want to conclude that
God's
church only lives as long as a common individual, when we are talking
about
a vast body of people stretching many generations... .
If you want to make direct comparisons, then by your measure, Yeshua
should
only have married one woman, or He'd be guilty of adultery.
HE was married to the Children of Israel but they rejected Him as their
Messiah (bridegroom)
So this is the very reason he had to die on the cross to fulfill the mariage
vows "Till death do us part"
When he arose from the dead he was free to choose his brand new
Bride Nation (The bride of the Lamb)
The Bible is a book of 2 women (nations)
The Bride
and the Harlot that is apposed to the Bride.
Everyone from the first day of Pentecost to this day is ONE body, and that
body is the Bride, and Yeshua will come 'like a thief in the night' to
take
his bride 'to His Fathers house' for the bridal week... That is the theme
of
the feast of Trumpets. The feasts are >shadows< of real events....
HE will come as a thief in the night. that is "AS" a thief n the night.
he comes like that to each one of His people sooner or later and
He is not going to come and take them all at once becasue they
all do not live all at the same time.
Some were there in the first century AD when he physically was choosing
them. and other were not born yet so they were and some still are sleeping
in the dust of the earth until it is their time also to become believers.
The Saints of The Living God are living Souls.
The saints of the Harlot are all dead and burried and worshiped
as dead people.
Now what kind of cult is that??
M,
--
"...as far as they agree with the Scriptures; but we
modestly dissent from them when they are found to set
down things differing from, or altogether contrary to,
the Scriptures.... And in the same order also we place
the decrees and canons of councils. Wherefore we do
not permit ourselves, in controversies about religion
or matters of faith, to urge our case with only the
opinions of the fathers or decrees of councils; much
less by received opinions, or by the large number of
those who share the same opinion, or by the prescription
of a long time." - Second Helvetic Confession
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: God's Ultimate Wedding Story |
04 Jan 2008 12:18:10 PM |
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"Mistylein" <yardholler@charter.net> wrote in message
news:9_nfj.86$WU7.40@newsfe05.lga...
[snip]
HE was married to the Children of Israel but they rejected Him as their
Messiah (bridegroom)
So this is the very reason he had to die on the cross to fulfill the
mariage
vows "Till death do us part"
When he arose from the dead he was free to choose his brand new
Bride Nation (The bride of the Lamb)
Utter nonsense.
Israel is the "husband."
Christianity is the "bride."
The remnant yet to come, beginning the new Israel will be the children of
both faiths.
And thus shall the "marriage" be consummated.
Hence, Christianity does NOT replace Israel (as abominable false teachers
have been saying for two-thousand years, INCLUDING the frauds of Mormonism).
It COMPLIMENTS Israel, and is grafted into the positions left open by the
fallen of Israel.
The Bible is a book of 2 women (nations)
The Bride
and the Harlot that is apposed to the Bride.
NOT two LITERAL nations, you dolt (which is where the Mormons got off on the
whole Polygamy thing, thinking that God was establishing another LITERAL
Israel, which is utter nonsense).
[snip]
he comes like that to each one of His people sooner or later and
He is not going to come and take them all at once becasue they
all do not live all at the same time.
Horseshit.
Jesus came ONCE to do that, and it's up to people to heed or recede.
He'll come again to judge the work.
There are NO appearances in between (as the cult beast Joseph Smith taught).
Some were there in the first century AD when he physically was choosing
them. and other were not born yet so they were and some still are sleeping
in the dust of the earth until it is their time also to become believers.
ALL except the Remnant are raised AT ONCE, in the End of the Age.
This teaching of yours is MORE Moron Cult crap.
The Saints of The Living God are living Souls.
Yes, and they are NOT in the Mormon Cult.
The saints of the Harlot are all dead and burried and worshiped
as dead people.
Now what kind of cult is that??
Satan's, and he has a HUGE house in Utah.
Ike
.
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| User: "a d a m" |
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| Title: Re: God's Ultimate Wedding Story |
02 Jan 2008 06:15:11 PM |
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On Jan 2, 6:06 pm, "Semper Lib=E8r=AE" <nopolicestates?????
Hj...@freedom4all.org> wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:o08fn3l1erhotm1b0ani66pvsqccjffdai@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 00:37:36 GMT, "Semper Lib=E8r=AE"
<nopolicestates?????Hj...@freedom4all.org> said the
following:
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j34bn3lntbnp28o6vv44rgrtf20lchb71r@4ax.com...
God's Ultimate Wedding Story
by Tyrone Cropper
Among the titles of Christ, The Bridegroom is closely
associated with Jewish customs and also rich in
spiritual significance.
It represents the expressiveness of His covenantal
relationship with His people. The Church is depicted
as the bride of Christ and as a Bride is spiritually
united with Christ.
When we approach this illustration from a modern
perspective, viewing it through the grid of 21st Century
American marriage and courtship customs, we miss much
of the richness and depth of this picture. This is due to
the fact that in His promised return, Jesus was drawing
an analogy from Jewish marriage customs in Biblical times.
Since this is so, those marriage customs MUST be examined
if one is to grasp the significance of the promise!
In all periods of Jewish history, almost all marriages were
arranged by the young couple's respective fathers, who
were obligated to see to it that their children be married.
Thus, Jeremiah, for example, charged the exiles in Babylon,
"Take wives for your sons and give your daughters to men"
(Jer. 29:6).
During the Jewish marriage the first step was betrothal.
The betrothal involved the establishment of a marriage
covenant. During Jesus' time it was usual for such a
covenant to be established as the result of the prospective
bridegroom taking the initiative.
The prospective bridegroom would travel from his father's
house to the home of the prospective bride. "And the Word
became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of
grace and truth (John 1:14). There the bridegoom would
negotiate with the father of the young woman to determine
the price (mohar) that he must pay to purchase his bride.
"For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God
in your body and in your spirit, which are God's"
"know you not that...you are not your own? For you are
bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body,
and your spirit, which are God's" (1 Cor. 6:19-20; 7:23).
Once the bridegroom paid the purchase price, the marriage
covenant was thereby established, and the young man and
woman were regarded to be husband and wife. From that
moment on the bride was declared to be consecrated
or sanctified, set apart exclusively for her bridegroom.
"To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who
are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with
all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ
our Lord, both theirs and ours (1 Corinthians 1:20)
(See Eph. 5:25-27; 1Cor. 1:2; 6:11; Heb. 10:10; 13:12).
As a symbol of the covenant relationship that had been
established, the groom and bride would drink from a
cup of wine over which a betrothal benediction had been
pronounced. "In the same manner He also took the cup
after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in My
blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance
of Me" (1 Corinthians 11:25).
After the marriage covenant had been established, the groom
would leave the home of the bride and return to his father's
house. "Now when He had spoken these things, while they
watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out
of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward
heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them
in white apparel, who also said, Men of Galilee, why do
you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who
was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like
manner as you saw Him go into heaven" (Acts 1:9-11)
(See John 20:17).
There he would remain separate from his bride for a period
of twelve months (not thousands of years).
Unless of course we happen to be talking about a marriage involving an
eternal Groon, and a Bride consisting of multiple generations of
individuals.... (ie the Church, which is still being built)
In other words, it's thousands of years,
because you said so.
Rom 12:5 so we the many are one body in Christ, and each one members of=
one
another.
1Co 10:17 For we, the many, are one bread and one body; for we are all
partakers of that one bread.
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, and all the
members
of that one body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For also by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body,
whether
Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free, even all were made to drink into
one
Spirit.
1Co 12:20 But now indeed many are the members, yet only one body.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one=
hope
of your calling,
and assuming time is measured differently by this Groom....
Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in Your sight are as yesterday when it is=
past, and as a watch in the night.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that o=
ne
day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one
day.
Which puts a much different spin on the marriage symbology and
practice...
In other words, you aren't too bright and thought you'd
misuse this passage to claim that God has "1,000 year days"
but also claim that God isn't bound by time.
Speaking of not too bright.... If this passage describes anything obvious =
at
all, its that God works on a different time scale than WE do.
To then further reduce it to absurdity, you then want to conclude that God=
's
church only lives as long as a common individual, when we are talking abou=
t
a vast body of people stretching many generations... .
If you want to make direct comparisons, then by your measure, Yeshua shoul=
d
only have married one woman, or He'd be guilty of adultery.
Everyone from the first day of Pentecost to this day is
It goes back to Father Abraham.
ONE body, and that
body is the Bride, and Yeshua will come 'like a thief in the night' to tak=
e
his bride 'to His Fathers house' for the bridal week... That is the theme =
of
the feast of Trumpets. The feasts are >shadows< of real events....
--
"...as far as they agree with the Scriptures; but we
modestly dissent from them when they are found to set
down things differing from, or altogether contrary to,
the Scriptures.... And in the same order also we place
the decrees and canons of councils. Wherefore we do
not permit ourselves, in controversies about religion
or matters of faith, to urge our case with only the
opinions of the fathers or decrees of councils; much
less by received opinions, or by the large number of
those who share the same opinion, or by the prescription
of a long time." - Second Helvetic Confession
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: God's Ultimate Wedding Story |
03 Jan 2008 03:54:09 AM |
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On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 00:06:11 GMT, "Semper Libčr®"
<nopolicestates?????Hje77@freedom4all.org> said the
following:
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
In other words, you aren't too bright and thought you'd
misuse this passage to claim that God has "1,000 year days"
but also claim that God isn't bound by time.
Speaking of not too bright.... If this passage describes
anything obvious at all, its that God works on a different
time scale than WE do.
Tell me, do you apply this same "1,000 years = 1 day" rule
to every other prophecy? I mean what about Jeremiah's
70 years? After all, we have to use "God time", right?
So I guess the Messiah never appeared, because we're
still waiting for Jeremiah's 70 years to go by, which would
multiply out to 25,200,000 years!
To then further reduce it to absurdity
You were saying something about absurdity?
Oh wait, lemme guess... the "1,000 years = 1 day" rule
only applies whenever you don't like what a time statement
in the New Testament would mean for your doctrine!
Yes folks, now we too, can selectively choose which
prophecies we will apply this "non-existent, nowhere
stated that we should do it" rule, wherever we want!
And hey, tell us how God likes those "500 year nights"?
After all, He can't have "days", if there are no nights,
because that's what divides the days.
But of course, there is no darkness with God, so you'll
have to figure out how God has "bright nights". Hey,
maybe He has really powerful lamps, huh?! Must be
those lampstands we read about in Scripture, right?
--
The wages of sin is death. Repent before payday.
.
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| User: "Mistylein" |
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| Title: Re: God's Ultimate Wedding Story |
04 Jan 2008 04:45:57 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1qbpn35f6pfl9lqbtsquuhn84t91hs734o@4ax.com...
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 00:06:11 GMT, "Semper Libčr®"
<nopolicestates?????Hje77@freedom4all.org> said the
following:
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
In other words, you aren't too bright and thought you'd
misuse this passage to claim that God has "1,000 year days"
but also claim that God isn't bound by time.
Speaking of not too bright.... If this passage describes
anything obvious at all, its that God works on a different
time scale than WE do.
Tell me, do you apply this same "1,000 years = 1 day" rule
to every other prophecy? I mean what about Jeremiah's
70 years? After all, we have to use "God time", right?
So I guess the Messiah never appeared, because we're
still waiting for Jeremiah's 70 years to go by, which would
multiply out to 25,200,000 years!
Jerimiah was talking literal 70 years and it is that 70 years
captivity that Daniel was living in when the Book of Daniel
was written.
To then further reduce it to absurdity
You were saying something about absurdity?
Oh wait, lemme guess... the "1,000 years = 1 day" rule
only applies whenever you don't like what a time statement
in the New Testament would mean for your doctrine!
Yes folks, now we too, can selectively choose which
prophecies we will apply this "non-existent, nowhere
stated that we should do it" rule, wherever we want!
A prophetic Day is one year
And hey, tell us how God likes those "500 year nights"?
After all, He can't have "days", if there are no nights,
because that's what divides the days.
Must be Dave babbling here. LOL
Dave wake up and smell the roses.
Must you keep your blinders on after all the riems of
post your fingers have posted
and you are still blind after all the riems and riems of
posts you have read.
You have eyes but you do not see.
you have ears but you do not hear.
You have understanding but you do not preceive.
What is with you do you love a lie yet??
But of course, there is no darkness with God, so you'll
have to figure out how God has "bright nights". Hey,
maybe He has really powerful lamps, huh?! Must be
those lampstands we read about in Scripture, right?
--
The wages of sin is death. Repent before payday.
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: God's Ultimate Wedding Story |
04 Jan 2008 12:21:50 PM |
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"Mistylein" <yardholler@charter.net> wrote in message
news:_6ofj.87$WU7.76@newsfe05.lga...
[snip]
Jerimiah was talking literal 70 years and it is that 70 years
captivity that Daniel was living in when the Book of Daniel
was written.
Except there never WERE 70 years between any two points in the first
iteration.
That's because the prophecy is really about the seventy years End of the
Age.
[snip]
A prophetic Day is one year
Not in Jeremiah it isn't. Jeremiah was operating on the "weekly" conventions
of Leviticus 25.
[snip]
What is with you do you love a lie yet??
Apparently as much as you do.
Ike
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: God's Ultimate Wedding Story |
04 Jan 2008 03:41:21 PM |
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On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 16:45:57 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> said the following:
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1qbpn35f6pfl9lqbtsquuhn84t91hs734o@4ax.com...
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 00:06:11 GMT, "Semper Libčr®"
<nopolicestates?????Hje77@freedom4all.org> said the
following:
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
In other words, you aren't too bright and thought you'd
misuse this passage to claim that God has "1,000 year days"
but also claim that God isn't bound by time.
Speaking of not too bright.... If this passage describes
anything obvious at all, its that God works on a different
time scale than WE do.
Tell me, do you apply this same "1,000 years = 1 day" rule
to every other prophecy? I mean what about Jeremiah's
70 years? After all, we have to use "God time", right?
So I guess the Messiah never appeared, because we're
still waiting for Jeremiah's 70 years to go by, which would
multiply out to 25,200,000 years!
Jerimiah was talking literal 70 years and it is that 70 years
captivity that Daniel was living in when the Book of Daniel
was written.
I agree.
To then further reduce it to absurdity
You were saying something about absurdity?
Oh wait, lemme guess... the "1,000 years = 1 day" rule
only applies whenever you don't like what a time statement
in the New Testament would mean for your doctrine!
Yes folks, now we too, can selectively choose which
prophecies we will apply this "non-existent, nowhere
stated that we should do it" rule, wherever we want!
A prophetic Day is one year
If that were true, it has nothing to do with
what I said.
And hey, tell us how God likes those "500 year nights"?
After all, He can't have "days", if there are no nights,
because that's what divides the days.
Must be Dave babbling here. LOL
Dave wake up and smell the roses.
How about you do that, since you obviously
can't read.
--
I know God won't give me anything I can't handle.
I just wish He didn't trust me so much.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: God's Ultimate Wedding Story |
03 Jan 2008 03:47:24 AM |
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On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 00:06:11 GMT, "Semper Libčr®"
<nopolicestates?????Hje77@freedom4all.org> said the
following:
In other words, you aren't too bright and thought you'd
misuse this passage to claim that God has "1,000 year days"
but also claim that God isn't bound by time.
Speaking of not too bright.... If this passage describes anything obvious at
all, its that God works on a different time scale than WE do.
God isn't bound by time.
To then further reduce it to absurdity, you then want to conclude that God's
church only lives as long as a common individual
I said no such thing, but I guess you needed to
make that up to help yourself, huh?
The fact is, you ignore the time statements that
God gave the people He inspired to write the Bible.
God didn't say, "soon by my time" and when God
gave time, He gave it from man's perspective,
since He does not experience time and when
you claimed that God has 1,000 year days,
you did it to avoid what I posted and you tried
to bind God to linear time.
The bottom line is, you do whatever you need to,
to make the Bible about you today, because to you,
if it isn't all about you today, then it's useless.
--
"The only place you find chaos in the universe
is in mans' heart." - Vume
.
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| User: " ::: good news runner :::" |
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| Title: Re: God's Ultimate Wedding Story |
03 Jan 2008 09:34:04 AM |
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In news:8jbpn3hba73hon8kmavlq91a8g29h45vks@4ax.com,
False Pastor and Anti-Semite Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed the
same drivel as we are used to:
I said no such thing, but I guess you needed to
make that up to help yourself, huh?
The fact is, you ignore the time statements that
God gave the people He inspired to write the Bible.
God didn't say, "soon by my time" and when God
gave time, He gave it from man's perspective,
since He does not experience time and when
you claimed that God has 1,000 year days,
you did it to avoid what I posted and you tried
to bind God to linear time.
The bottom line is, you do whatever you need to,
to make the Bible about you today, because to you,
if it isn't all about you today, then it's useless.
--
"The only place you find chaos in the universe
is in mans' heart." - Vume
.
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