| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
14 Apr 2005 08:40:33 AM |
| Object: |
HEAVEN OR HELL = RETURN OF JESUS? |
Hi,
I think that some people may have been confused about
what I'm saying about the fact that Jesus has returned
already. They seem to think that I am denying the need
for repentance and that I'm saying we don't need to be
worried about where we'll go, if He has already
returned. They attach eternity to His return and
certainly, if He returned tomorrow, there is an issue,
but there is an issue, even if He has already returned.
The fact is, that end timers use the coming to scare
people. And then, when people go on with their lives,
reading all of the "newspaper prophecies" and see that
Jesus hasn't come back yet, even though they keep
preaching, "soon", they abandon the faith. Of course,
the end time preachers blame the people, instead of
themselves. These preachers claim that "soon means
soon", when they claim it's going to happen in our
generation, but at the same time, "soon means thousands
of years", when it comes to looking at the Bible and
seeing what Jesus said. Of course, you'll never hear
them admitting that second part.
The fact is, that whether Jesus returned or not, has
nothing to do with whether or not we need to be
concerned about eternity, because it is OUR INDIVIDUAL
eternity that is at stake here and that DOES NOT
CHANGE, whether the resurrection has happened yet or
not, because once we're dead, we're judged, whether
immediately, or in some future resurrection.
Therefore, to preach the soon coming of Jesus as a
reason, makes no sense, especially considering, "soon"
seems to always be way off in the future. What is
wiser, is to tell people what is true. Even if Jesus
hasn't returned yet, one might die at any time and THAT
is the real issue. Whether our judgment is immediately
after death, or thousands of years after death, it is
still coming and there is no second chance.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
|
|
| User: "cdnbud" |
|
| Title: Re: HEAVEN OR HELL = RETURN OF JESUS? |
14 Apr 2005 10:24:03 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:p0ss51l5mlaov05rqmj446hdfjbv90m9jr@4ax.com...
Hi,
I think that some people may have been confused about
what I'm saying about the fact that Jesus has returned
already. They seem to think that I am denying the need
for repentance and that I'm saying we don't need to be
worried about where we'll go, if He has already
returned. They attach eternity to His return and
certainly, if He returned tomorrow, there is an issue,
but there is an issue, even if He has already returned.
The fact is, that end timers use the coming to scare
people. And then, when people go on with their lives,
reading all of the "newspaper prophecies" and see that
Jesus hasn't come back yet, even though they keep
preaching, "soon", they abandon the faith. Of course,
the end time preachers blame the people, instead of
themselves. These preachers claim that "soon means
soon", when they claim it's going to happen in our
generation, but at the same time, "soon means thousands
of years", when it comes to looking at the Bible and
seeing what Jesus said. Of course, you'll never hear
them admitting that second part.
The fact is, that whether Jesus returned or not, has
nothing to do with whether or not we need to be
concerned about eternity, because it is OUR INDIVIDUAL
eternity that is at stake here and that DOES NOT
CHANGE, whether the resurrection has happened yet or
not, because once we're dead, we're judged, whether
immediately, or in some future resurrection.
Therefore, to preach the soon coming of Jesus as a
reason, makes no sense, especially considering, "soon"
seems to always be way off in the future. What is
wiser, is to tell people what is true. Even if Jesus
hasn't returned yet, one might die at any time and THAT
is the real issue. Whether our judgment is immediately
after death, or thousands of years after death, it is
still coming and there is no second chance.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
Jesus has returned??? What!
Do you mean we all missed the sound of the "Last trump"
We missed the lightning from the east to the west?
We missed the descending cloud with the Lord as the angels said to the
disciples when Jesus ascended?
What are you smoking? You cant be serious? Please tell me I have
misunderstood your post!
-cdnbud
"Blame it on the Baptists"
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: HEAVEN OR HELL = RETURN OF JESUS? |
14 Apr 2005 10:02:37 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:24:03 -0400, while Pastor Dave
was preaching from the housetops, "cdnbud"
<cdnbud@alltel.net> spake thusly:
"Pastor Dave" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:p0ss51l5mlaov05rqmj446hdfjbv90m9jr@4ax.com...
Hi,
I think that some people may have been confused about
what I'm saying about the fact that Jesus has returned
already. They seem to think that I am denying the need
for repentance and that I'm saying we don't need to be
worried about where we'll go, if He has already
returned. They attach eternity to His return and
certainly, if He returned tomorrow, there is an issue,
but there is an issue, even if He has already returned.
The fact is, that end timers use the coming to scare
people. And then, when people go on with their lives,
reading all of the "newspaper prophecies" and see that
Jesus hasn't come back yet, even though they keep
preaching, "soon", they abandon the faith. Of course,
the end time preachers blame the people, instead of
themselves. These preachers claim that "soon means
soon", when they claim it's going to happen in our
generation, but at the same time, "soon means thousands
of years", when it comes to looking at the Bible and
seeing what Jesus said. Of course, you'll never hear
them admitting that second part.
The fact is, that whether Jesus returned or not, has
nothing to do with whether or not we need to be
concerned about eternity, because it is OUR INDIVIDUAL
eternity that is at stake here and that DOES NOT
CHANGE, whether the resurrection has happened yet or
not, because once we're dead, we're judged, whether
immediately, or in some future resurrection.
Therefore, to preach the soon coming of Jesus as a
reason, makes no sense, especially considering, "soon"
seems to always be way off in the future. What is
wiser, is to tell people what is true. Even if Jesus
hasn't returned yet, one might die at any time and THAT
is the real issue. Whether our judgment is immediately
after death, or thousands of years after death, it is
still coming and there is no second chance.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
Jesus has returned??? What!
Do you mean we all missed the sound of the "Last trump"
We missed the lightning from the east to the west?
We missed the descending cloud with the Lord as the angels said to the
disciples when Jesus ascended?
What are you smoking? You cant be serious? Please tell me I have
misunderstood your post!
No, you haven't. You simply don't understand what He
said. That's because you've bought into the end times
garbage, which btw, has only been preached since about
1800 and it is not the historic belief of the church.
If you think you're right, then please prove it, by
quoting the appropriate verses, along with an
explanation of why you think they say what you think
they say and let's see if your belief holds water.
BTW, what do the words, "soon", "quickly" and "at hand"
mean to you?
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "howtrue" |
|
| Title: Re: HEAVEN OR HELL = RETURN OF JESUS? |
16 Apr 2005 12:59:58 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:kibu51t8qm9udcugvptsgqbbo3g9opfaf8@4ax.com...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:24:03 -0400, while Pastor Dave
was preaching from the housetops, "cdnbud"
<cdnbud@alltel.net> spake thusly:
"Pastor Dave" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:p0ss51l5mlaov05rqmj446hdfjbv90m9jr@4ax.com...
Hi,
I think that some people may have been confused about
what I'm saying about the fact that Jesus has returned
already. They seem to think that I am denying the need
for repentance and that I'm saying we don't need to be
worried about where we'll go, if He has already
returned. They attach eternity to His return and
certainly, if He returned tomorrow, there is an issue,
but there is an issue, even if He has already returned.
The fact is, that end timers use the coming to scare
people. And then, when people go on with their lives,
reading all of the "newspaper prophecies" and see that
Jesus hasn't come back yet, even though they keep
preaching, "soon", they abandon the faith. Of course,
the end time preachers blame the people, instead of
themselves. These preachers claim that "soon means
soon", when they claim it's going to happen in our
generation, but at the same time, "soon means thousands
of years", when it comes to looking at the Bible and
seeing what Jesus said. Of course, you'll never hear
them admitting that second part.
The fact is, that whether Jesus returned or not, has
nothing to do with whether or not we need to be
concerned about eternity, because it is OUR INDIVIDUAL
eternity that is at stake here and that DOES NOT
CHANGE, whether the resurrection has happened yet or
not, because once we're dead, we're judged, whether
immediately, or in some future resurrection.
Therefore, to preach the soon coming of Jesus as a
reason, makes no sense, especially considering, "soon"
seems to always be way off in the future. What is
wiser, is to tell people what is true. Even if Jesus
hasn't returned yet, one might die at any time and THAT
is the real issue. Whether our judgment is immediately
after death, or thousands of years after death, it is
still coming and there is no second chance.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
Jesus has returned??? What!
Do you mean we all missed the sound of the "Last trump"
We missed the lightning from the east to the west?
We missed the descending cloud with the Lord as the angels said to the
disciples when Jesus ascended?
What are you smoking? You cant be serious? Please tell me I have
misunderstood your post!
No, you haven't. You simply don't understand what He
said. That's because you've bought into the end times
garbage, which btw, has only been preached since about
1800 and it is not the historic belief of the church.
If you think you're right, then please prove it, by
quoting the appropriate verses, along with an
explanation of why you think they say what you think
they say and let's see if your belief holds water.
Give it up, PD. Your looney ideas are officially poo-pooed.
._.---.__
| ___)
| ____)
| _____)
| _____)
'-\, \
\ )
'-´
.
|
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| User: "Antagonist for God" |
|
| Title: Re: HEAVEN OR HELL = RETURN OF JESUS? |
16 Apr 2005 07:56:37 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 05:59:58 GMT, "howtrue"
<howtrue@nospam.com> spake thusly:
"Pastor Dave" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:kibu51t8qm9udcugvptsgqbbo3g9opfaf8@4ax.com...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:24:03 -0400, while Pastor Dave
was preaching from the housetops, "cdnbud"
<cdnbud@alltel.net> spake thusly:
"Pastor Dave" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:p0ss51l5mlaov05rqmj446hdfjbv90m9jr@4ax.com...
Hi,
I think that some people may have been confused about
what I'm saying about the fact that Jesus has returned
already. They seem to think that I am denying the need
for repentance and that I'm saying we don't need to be
worried about where we'll go, if He has already
returned. They attach eternity to His return and
certainly, if He returned tomorrow, there is an issue,
but there is an issue, even if He has already returned.
The fact is, that end timers use the coming to scare
people. And then, when people go on with their lives,
reading all of the "newspaper prophecies" and see that
Jesus hasn't come back yet, even though they keep
preaching, "soon", they abandon the faith. Of course,
the end time preachers blame the people, instead of
themselves. These preachers claim that "soon means
soon", when they claim it's going to happen in our
generation, but at the same time, "soon means thousands
of years", when it comes to looking at the Bible and
seeing what Jesus said. Of course, you'll never hear
them admitting that second part.
The fact is, that whether Jesus returned or not, has
nothing to do with whether or not we need to be
concerned about eternity, because it is OUR INDIVIDUAL
eternity that is at stake here and that DOES NOT
CHANGE, whether the resurrection has happened yet or
not, because once we're dead, we're judged, whether
immediately, or in some future resurrection.
Therefore, to preach the soon coming of Jesus as a
reason, makes no sense, especially considering, "soon"
seems to always be way off in the future. What is
wiser, is to tell people what is true. Even if Jesus
hasn't returned yet, one might die at any time and THAT
is the real issue. Whether our judgment is immediately
after death, or thousands of years after death, it is
still coming and there is no second chance.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
Jesus has returned??? What!
Do you mean we all missed the sound of the "Last trump"
We missed the lightning from the east to the west?
We missed the descending cloud with the Lord as the angels said to the
disciples when Jesus ascended?
What are you smoking? You cant be serious? Please tell me I have
misunderstood your post!
No, you haven't. You simply don't understand what He
said. That's because you've bought into the end times
garbage, which btw, has only been preached since about
1800 and it is not the historic belief of the church.
If you think you're right, then please prove it, by
quoting the appropriate verses, along with an
explanation of why you think they say what you think
they say and let's see if your belief holds water.
Give it up, PD. Your looney ideas are officially poo-pooed.
Oh gee, you don't believe it. Well then, it must be
false. (:
--
Antoagonist for God
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: HEAVEN OR HELL = RETURN OF JESUS? |
14 Apr 2005 08:07:43 PM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:p0ss51l5mlaov05rqmj446hdfjbv90m9jr@4ax.com...
What is
wiser, is to tell people what is true. Even if Jesus
hasn't returned yet, one might die at any time and THAT
is the real issue. Whether our judgment is immediately
after death, or thousands of years after death, it is
still coming and there is no second chance.
First of all, you are JUDGED while still living on the earth, before you
die, and I have already returned and am JUDGING YOU ALL NOW.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Pastor Dave" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:p0ss51l5mlaov05rqmj446hdfjbv90m9jr@4ax.com...
Hi,
I think that some people may have been confused about
what I'm saying about the fact that Jesus has returned
already. They seem to think that I am denying the need
for repentance and that I'm saying we don't need to be
worried about where we'll go, if He has already
returned. They attach eternity to His return and
certainly, if He returned tomorrow, there is an issue,
but there is an issue, even if He has already returned.
The fact is, that end timers use the coming to scare
people. And then, when people go on with their lives,
reading all of the "newspaper prophecies" and see that
Jesus hasn't come back yet, even though they keep
preaching, "soon", they abandon the faith. Of course,
the end time preachers blame the people, instead of
themselves. These preachers claim that "soon means
soon", when they claim it's going to happen in our
generation, but at the same time, "soon means thousands
of years", when it comes to looking at the Bible and
seeing what Jesus said. Of course, you'll never hear
them admitting that second part.
The fact is, that whether Jesus returned or not, has
nothing to do with whether or not we need to be
concerned about eternity, because it is OUR INDIVIDUAL
eternity that is at stake here and that DOES NOT
CHANGE, whether the resurrection has happened yet or
not, because once we're dead, we're judged, whether
immediately, or in some future resurrection.
Therefore, to preach the soon coming of Jesus as a
reason, makes no sense, especially considering, "soon"
seems to always be way off in the future. What is
wiser, is to tell people what is true. Even if Jesus
hasn't returned yet, one might die at any time and THAT
is the real issue. Whether our judgment is immediately
after death, or thousands of years after death, it is
still coming and there is no second chance.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rod" |
|
| Title: Re: HEAVEN OR HELL = RETURN OF JESUS? |
18 Apr 2005 06:57:51 PM |
|
|
Dore wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:p0ss51l5mlaov05rqmj446hdfjbv90m9jr@4ax.com...
What is
wiser, is to tell people what is true. Even if Jesus
hasn't returned yet, one might die at any time and THAT
is the real issue. Whether our judgment is immediately
after death, or thousands of years after death, it is
still coming and there is no second chance.
First of all, you are JUDGED while still living on the earth, before you
die, and I have already returned and am JUDGING YOU ALL NOW.
Dore;....several months ago I heard the voice of the Lord in the
middle of the night. He neither sounds, speaks, or thinks like eother
one of us, and when He speaks to you....He WILL get your attention.
You are not Him. I know His voice.
.
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| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: HEAVEN OR HELL = RETURN OF JESUS? |
18 Apr 2005 07:15:34 PM |
|
|
"Rod" <freelance74601@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1168icah978i2c7@corp.supernews.com...
Dore;....several months ago I heard the voice of the Lord in the middle
of the night. He neither sounds, speaks, or thinks like eother one of us,
and when He speaks to you....He WILL get your attention.
You are not Him. I know His voice.
I stand in His presence and see His face continuously. I know His voice
better than my own. Fact is, God does NOT speak to men, He only speaks to
me, as the Bible clearly states. To other people, He sends angels to speak
in His behalf. And if you are hearing voices, dependant on what is being
said, it most likely is a demon, for they speak most often, the loudest and
first. That is why it is essential to seek the complete righteousness and
truths of God, to discern the spirits and overcome their subtleness.
Matt 11:27
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the
Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and
he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
KJV
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Rod" <freelance74601@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1168icah978i2c7@corp.supernews.com...
Dore wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:p0ss51l5mlaov05rqmj446hdfjbv90m9jr@4ax.com...
What is
wiser, is to tell people what is true. Even if Jesus
hasn't returned yet, one might die at any time and THAT
is the real issue. Whether our judgment is immediately
after death, or thousands of years after death, it is
still coming and there is no second chance.
First of all, you are JUDGED while still living on the earth, before you
die, and I have already returned and am JUDGING YOU ALL NOW.
Dore;....several months ago I heard the voice of the Lord in the middle
of the night. He neither sounds, speaks, or thinks like eother one of us,
and when He speaks to you....He WILL get your attention.
You are not Him. I know His voice.
.
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