| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Carl" |
| Date: |
05 Jun 2007 03:22:36 PM |
| Object: |
Heresies & Heretics (Titus 3:10,11) |
The Word of God must be the final authority for what we Christians believe.
Those who intentionally promote heresies?
"Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that,
have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and
sinful; he is self-condemned." (Titus 3:10,11 -- NIV)
"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of
himself." (Titus 3:10,11 -- KJV)
"Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that
such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned." (Titus
3:10,11 -- NKJV)
"A factious man after a first and second admonition refuse; knowing that
such a one is perverted, and sinneth, being self-condemned." (Titus
3:10,11 -- ASV)
"Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a
man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned." (Titus 3:10,11 --
NASU)
"[As for] a man who is factious [a heretical sectarian and cause of
divisions], after admonishing him a first and second time, reject [him from
your fellowship and have nothing more to do with him]" (Titus 3:10,11 --
AMP)
"Al hombre que cause divisiones, después de una y otra amonestación
deséchalo, sabiendo que el tal se ha pervertido, y peca y está condenado por
su propio juicio." (Titus 3:10,11 -- RVR)
"A sectarian man, after a first and second admonition be rejecting, having
known that he hath been subverted who [is] such, and doth sin, being
self-condemned. (Titus 3:10,11 -- YLT)
"Give at least two warnings to the person who causes divisions, and then
have nothing more to do with him. You know that such a person is corrupt,
and his sins prove that he is wrong." (Titus 3:10,11 -- TEV)
[A man that is an heretic] The word "heretic" is now commonly applied to one
who holds some fundamental error of doctrine, "a person who holds and
teaches opinions repugnant to the established faith, or that which is made
the standard of orthodoxy." Webster. The Greek word here used hairetikos
occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. The corresponding noun hairesis
occurs in the following places: Acts 5:17; 15:5; 24:5; 26:5; 28:22, where it
is rendered "sect;" and Acts 25:14; 1 Cor 11:19; Gal 5:20; 2 Peter 2:1,
where it is rendered "heresy," and "heresies;" see the notes at Acts 24:14.
The true notion of the word is that of one who is a promoter of a sect or
party. The man who makes divisions in a church, instead of aiming to promote
unity, is the one who is intended. Such a man may form sects and parties on
some points of doctrine on which be differs from others, or on some custom,
religious rite, or special practice; he may make some unimportant matter a
ground of distinction from his brethren, and may refuse to have fellowship
with them, and endeavor to get up a new organization. Such a man, according
to the Scripture usage, is a heretic, and not merely one who holds a
different doctrine from that which is regarded as orthodoxy. The spirit of
the doctrine here is the same as in Rom 16:17, and the same class of persons
is referred to. "Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to
the doctrine which ye have received; and avoid them." See the notes at that
passage. The word here used is defined by Robinson (Lexicon), "one who
creates dissensions, introduces errors, a factious person." It is not found
in classic Greek, but often in ecclesiastical writers; see Suicer's
Thesaurus.
[After the first and second admonition] Compare Matt 18:15-17. That is, do
not do it hastily and rashly. Give him an opportunity to explain himself,
and to repent and abandon his course. No man is to be cut off without giving
him a proper opportunity to vindicate his conduct, and to repent if he has
done wrong. If after the first and second admonition a man who is
undoubtedly doing wrong, will not repent, then he is to be cut off. The
apostle does not say in what way this admonition is to be given, or whether
it should be public or private. The language which he uses would justify
either, and the method which is to be adopted is doubtless to be determined
by circumstances. The thing which is to be reached is, that his fault is to
be fairly set before his mind.
[Reject] paraitou. This word is rendered "excuse" in Luke 14:18-19;
"refuse," Acts 25:11; 1 Tim 4:7; 5:11; Heb 12:25; "avoid," 2 Tim 2:23, and
"entreated," Heb 12:19. Its prevailing meaning, as used in connections like
the one before us, is to reject in relation to an office; that is, to
decline appointing one to an office. It probably had a primary reference to
that here, and meant that a man who was given to making dissensions, or who
was a factious person, should not be admitted to an office in the church.
The general direction would also include this, - that he should not be
admitted to the church. He is neither to be owned as a member, nor admitted
to office; compare Matt 18:17. "Let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a
publican." In regard to this passage, then, we may observe:
(1) That the utmost limit which this allows is mere exclusion. It does not
allow us to follow the offender with injury.
(2) It does not authorize us to oppose one on account of his mere private
opinions. The essential idea is that of a factious, division-making man; a
man who aims to form sects and parties,whether on account of opinions, or
from any other cause.
(3) It does not make it right to deliver such a man over to the "secular
arm," or to harm him in body, soul, property, or reputation. It gives no
power to torture him on the rack, or with thumb-screws, or to bind him to
the stake. It authorizes us not to recognize him as a Christian brother, or
to admit him to an office in the church-but beyond this it gives us no right
to go. He has a right to his own opinion still, as far as we are concerned,
and we are not to molest him in the enjoyment of that right.
(4) It demands that, when a man is undoubtedly a heretic in the sense here
explained, there should be the utmost kindness towards him, in order if
possible to reclaim him. We should not begin by attacking and denouncing his
opinions; or by formally arraigning him; or by blazoning his name as a
heretic; but he is to be dealt with in all Christian kindness and brotherly
fidelity. He is to be admonished more than once by those who have the right
to admonish him; and then, and then only, if he does not repent, he is to be
simply avoided. That is to be an end of the matter so far as we are
concerned. The power of the church there ceases. It has no power to deliver
him over to anyone else for persecution or punishment, or in any way to
meddle with him. He may live where he pleases; pursue his own plans;
entertain his own opinions or company, provided he does not interfere with
us; and though we have a right to examine the opinions which he may
entertain, yet our work with him is done. If these plain principles had been
observed, what scenes of bloody and cruel persecution in the church would
have been avoided!
"Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of
himself."
[Knowing that he that is such is subverted] Literally, "is turned out;" or,
"is changed," i.e., for the worse. He has gone from the right way, and
therefore he should be rejected.
[And sinneth, being condemned of himself] His own conscience condemns him.
He will approve the sentence, for he knows that he is wrong; and his
self-condemnation will be punishment sufficient. His own course, in
attempting a division or schism in the church, shows him that it is right
that he should be separated from the communion of Christians. He that
attempts to rend the church, without a good reason, should himself be
separated from it.
(from Barnes' Notes)
"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"
The ministers of the word must at once cast off heretics, that is, those who
stubbornly and seditiously disquiet the Church, and will pay no attention to
ecclesiastical admonitions.
(from Geneva Notes)
"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"
Heretic. Heresy, originally a division resulting from self-will; the
individual doing and teaching what he chose independently of the church.
More aggravated than schism (1 Cor 11:19; Gal 5:20): divisions on church
matters not necessarily fundamental (Titus 1:14; 5:9 ). In course of time it
came to mean 'heresy' in the modern sense, 'the open espousal of fundamental
error.' The heretics of Crete were in doctrine followers of their own self-
willed questions (Titus 3:9), and immoral in practice.
Admonition - by word [nouthesia: but paideia, by chastisements].
Reject, [paraitou] - literally, ask off from,: 'shun.' Not formal
excommunication, but have nothing more to do with him, either in admonition
or conversation.
"Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of
himself."
Knowing-by the ill success of your admonitions.
Is subverted [exestraptai] - is perverted; literally, turned inside out;
i.e., completely changed for the worse (Deut 32:20) [dowr tahpukot].
Condemned of himself - continuing the same after frequent admonition, he is
self-condemned. When 'he sinneth' he doeth what his own knowledge virtually
condemns.
(from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary)
The treatment of heretics (Titus 3:9-15)
Here is the fifth and last thing in the matter of the epistle: what Titus
should avoid in teaching; how he should deal with a heretic; with some other
directions.
Observe,
I. That the apostle's meaning might be more clear and full, and especially
fitted to the time and state of things in Crete, and the many judaizers
among them, he tells Titus what, in teaching, he should shun, v. 9. There
are needful questions to be discussed and cleared, such as make for
improvement in useful knowledge; but idle and foolish enquiries, tending
neither to God's glory nor the edification of men, must be shunned. Some may
have a show of wisdom, but are vain, as many among the Jewish doctors, as
well as of later schoolmen, who abound with questions of no moment or use to
faith or practice; avoid these.- - And genealogies (of the gods, say some,
that the heathen poets made such noise about; or rather those that the Jews
were so curious in): some lawful and useful enquiries might be made into
these things, to see the fulfilling of the scriptures in some cases, and
especially in the descent of Christ the Messiah; but all that served to pomp
only, and to feed vanity, in boasting of a long pedigree, and much more such
as the Jewish teachers were ready to busy themselves in and trouble their
hearers with, even since Christ had come, and that distinction of families
and tribes had been taken away, as if they would build again that policy
which now is abolished, these Titus must withstand as foolish and vain.- -
And contentious, and strivings about the law. There were those who were for
the Mosaic rites and ceremonies, and would have them continued in the
church, though by the gospel and the coming of Christ they were superseded
and done away.
Titus must give no countenance to these, but avoid and oppose them; for they
are unprofitable and vain: this is to be referred to all those foolish
questions and genealogies, as well as those strivings about the law. They
are so far from instructing and building up in godliness, that they are
hindrances of it rather: the Christian religion, and good works, which are
to be maintained, will hereby be weakened and prejudiced, the peace of the
church disturbed, and the progress of the gospel hindered. Observe,
Ministers must not only teach things good and useful, but shun and oppose
the contrary, what would corrupt the faith, and hinder godliness and good
works; nor should people have itching ears, but love and embrace sound
doctrine, which tends most to the use of edifying.
II. But because, after all, there will be heresies and heretics in the
church, the apostle next directs Titus what to do in such a case, and how to
deal with such, v. 10. He who forsakes the truth as it is in Christ Jesus,
who broaches false doctrines and propagates them to the corrupting of the
faith in weighty and momentous points, and breaks the peace of the church
about them, after due means used to reclaim him, must be rejected. "Admonish
him once and again, that, if possible, he may be brought back, and thou
mayest gain thy brother; but, if this will not reduce him, that others be
not hurt, cast him out of the communion, and warn all Christians to avoid
him." - Knowing that he that is such is subverted (turned off from the
foundation) and sinneth grievously, being self-condemned. Those who will not
be reclaimed by admonitions, but are obstinate in their sins and errors, are
subverted and self-condemned; they inflict that punishment upon themselves
which the governors of the church should inflict upon them: they throw
themselves out of the church, and throw off its communion, and so are
self-condemned. Observe,
1. How great an evil real heresy is, not lightly therefore to be charged
upon any, though greatly to be taken heed of by all. Such a one is subverted
or perverted-a metaphor from a building so ruined as to render it difficult
if not impossible to repair and raise it up again. Real heretics have seldom
been recovered to the true faith: not so much defect of judgment, as
perverseness of the will, being in the case, through pride, or ambition, or
self-willedness, or covetousness, or such like corruption, which therefore
must be taken heed of: "Be humble, love the truth and practise it, and
damning heresy will be escaped."
2. Pains and patience must be used about those that err most grievously.
They are not easily and soon to be given up and cast off, but competent time
and means must be tried for their recovery.
3. The church's means even with heretics are persuasive and rational. They
must be admonished, instructed, and warned; so much nouthesia imports.
4. Upon continued obstinacy and irreclaimableness, the church has power, and
is obliged, to preserve its own purity, by severing such a corrupt member
which discipline may by God's blessing become effectual to reform the
offender, or if not it will leave him the more inexcusable in his
condemnation.
III. The apostle subjoins some further directions, v. 12, 13. Here are two
personal things enjoined:-
1. That Titus should hold himself ready to come to Paul at Nicopolis (a city
of Thrace, as is reckoned, on the borders of Macedonia), as soon as Artemas
or Tychicus should be sent to Crete, to supply his place, and take care of
the churches there when he should leave them. The apostle would not have
them in their young and weak state be without one or other of chief
sufficiency, to guide and help them. Titus, it seems, was not their ordinary
fixed bishop or pastor, but an evangelist, otherwise Paul would not have
called him so much from his charge. Of Artemas we read little, but Tychicus
is mentioned on many occasions with respect. Paul calls him a beloved
brother, and faithful minister, and fellow-servant in the Lord: one fit
therefore for the service intimated. When Paul says to Titus, Be diligent to
come to me to Nicopolis, for I have determined there to winter, it is plain
that the epistle was not written from Nicopolis, as the postcript would have
it, for then he would have said, I determined here, not there, to winter.
2. The other personal charge to Titus is that he would bring two of his
friends on their journey diligently, and see them furnished, so that nothing
should be wanting to them. This was to be done, not as a piece of common
civility only, but of Christian piety, out of respect both to them and the
work they were sent about, which probably was to preach the gospel, or to be
in some way serviceable to the churches. Zenas is styled the lawyer, whether
in reference to the Roman or the Mosaic law, as having some time been his
profession, is doubtful. Apollos was an eminent and faithful minister.
Accompanying such persons part of their way, and accommodating them for
their work and journeys, was a pious and needful service; and to further
this, and lay in for it, what the apostle had before exhorted Titus to teach
(v. 8) he repeats here: Let ours also learn to maintain good works for
necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful, v. 14. Let Christians, those
who have believed in God, learn to maintain good works, especially such as
these, supporting ministers in their work of preaching and spreading the
gospel, hereby becoming fellow-helpers to the truth, 3 John 5-8. That they
be not unfruitful. Christianity is not a fruitless profession; the
professors of it must be filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are
by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God. It is not enough that they
be harmless, but they must be profitable, doing good, as well as eschewing
evil.- - "Let ours set up and maintain some honest labour and employment, to
provide for themselves and their families, that they be not unprofitable
burdens on the earth;" so some understand it. Let them not think that
Christianity gives them a writ of ease; no, it lays an obligation upon them
to seek some honest work and calling, and therein to abide with God. This is
of good report, will credit religion and be good to mankind; they will not
be unprofitable members of the body, not burdensome and chargeable to
others, but enabled to be helpful to those in want. To maintain good works
for necessary uses; not living like drones on the labours of others, but
themselves fruitful to the common benefit.
IV. The apostle concludes with salutations and benedictions, v. 5. Though
perhaps not personally known (some of them at least), yet all by Paul
testify their love and good wishes to Titus, owning him thereby in his work,
and stimulating him to go on therein. Great comfort and encouragement it is
to have the heart and prayers of other Christians with and for us. Greet
those that love us in the faith, or for the faith, who are our loving
fellow-christians. Holiness, or the image of God in any, is the great
endearing thing that gives strength to all other bonds, and is itself the
best. Grace be with you all. Amen. This is the closing benediction, not to
Titus alone, but to all the faithful with him, which shows that though the
epistle bears the single name of Titus in the inscription, yet it was for
the use of the churches there, and they were in the eye, and upon the heart,
of the apostle, in the writing of it. "Grace be with you all, the love and
favour of God, with the fruits and effects thereof, according to need,
spiritual ones especially, and the increase and feeling of them more and
more in your souls." This is the apostle's wish and prayer, showing his
affection to them, his desire of their good, and a means of obtaining for
them, and bringing down upon them, the thing requested. Observe, Grace is
the chief thing to be wished and begged for, with respect to ourselves or
others; it is, summarily, all good. Amen shuts up the prayer, expressing
desire and hope, that so it may, and so it shall be.
(from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition)
Treatment of heretics: -- Paul having exhorted Titus both to teach the truth
according to godliness, as also to resist all such foolish and vain doctrine
as might do hurt in the Church of God. Titus might object: This indeed is my
duty wherein I extend to exercise myself with diligence; but when I have
laboured and done all I can, many there are who will not yield to the truth,
nor submit themselves to this ordinance of God; how am I to carry myself
towards such? Answer: The apostle, careful to prevent all such things as he
foresaw might be hurtful to the Church, giveth direction in these two verses
how to proceed in this business also. The former, giving direction and
laying down the duty; and the latter, enforcing the same by moment of
reason. In the former are three things to be considered:
1. The persons against whom Titus is to deal -- here called heretics.
2. The direction how he is to behave himself towards them -- reject them.
3. The orderly manner of proceeding, after once or twice admonition.
The latter verse containeth the reason of this severity, because such
persons are incurable and incorrigible; which is proved by two arguments.
1. Such a one is subverted, that is, turned or cast off the foundation.
2. He sinneth against his own conscience, being damned of his own self, that
is, he wittingly and willingly spurneth against that truth of which his
conscience is by the former admonition convinced.
(T. Taylor, D. D.)
Heresy not to be trifled with: -- I am asked sometimes to read an heretical
book. Well, if I believed my reading it would help its refutation, and might
be an assistance to others in keeping them out of error, I might do it as a
hard matter of duty, but I shall not do it unless I see some good will come
from it. I am not going to drag my spirit through a ditch for the sake of
having it washed afterwards, for it is not my own. It may be that good
medicine would restore me if I poisoned myself with putrid meat, but I am
not going to try it: I dare not experiment on a mind which no longer belongs
to me. There is a mother and a child, and the child has a book to play with,
and a blacklead pencil. It is making drawings and marks upon the book, and
the mother takes no notice. It lays down one book and snatches another from
the table, and at once the mother rises from her seat, and hurriedly takes
the book away, saying: "No, my dear, you must not mark that, for it is not
ours." So with my mind, intellect, and spirit; if it belonged to me I might
or might not play tomfool with it, and go to hear Socinians, Universalists,
and suchlike preach; but as it is not my own, I will preserve it from such
fooleries, and the pure word shall not be mingled with the errors of men.
(C. H. Spurgeon)
Contagion of false doctrine: -- Sin is like the bale of goods which came
from the East to this city in the olden time, which brought the pest in it.
Probably it was but a small bale, but yet it contained in it the deaths of
hundreds of the inhabitants of London. In those days one piece of rag
carried the infection into a whole town. So, if you permit one sin or false
doctrine in a church knowingly and wittingly, none can tell the extent to
which that evil may ultimately go. The Church, therefore, is to be purged of
practical and doctrinal evil as diligently as possible That sour and
corrupting thing which God abhors must be purged out, and it is to be the
business of the Christian minister, and of all his fellow helpers, to keep
the church free from it.
(C. H. Spurgeon)
Wilful heresy: -- Heresy, in the New Testament, is most commonly used in an
indifferent sense, and but seldom in a bad one. It generally signifies no
more than a sect or party in religion. Thus we read of the sect, or heresy,
of the Sadducees; of the sect, or heresy, of the Pharisees; St. Paul is
styled a ring leader of the sect, or heresy, of the Nazarenes; and he says
of himself that, after the strictest sect (where the same Greek word is
used) of the Jewish religion, he lived a Pharisee. In this last passage
particularly nothing can be more plain than that the word has an innocent
meaning, since the apostle rather commends than charges himself with
anything criminal for having been a Pharisee before his conversion to the
Christian faith. And we find it applied in the same manner in Acts 28:22. I
shall mention but one text more, and that is, "For there must also be
heresies among you," etc. (1 Cor 11:19). The evident design of which is,
that considering the various tempers of men, their different views,
passions, prejudices, their selfishness, ambition, vanity, and the like, it
was natural to expect that they would divide into parties about religion, as
well as about politics, and the civil affairs of life; and that the
providence of God wisely permitted this for the trial of their integrity,
and to distinguish the indolent, careless, and insincere from the real
friends of truth, persons of an honest, inquisitive, and ingenuous temper.
Now, according to this account, the general notion of a heretic is no more
than this, viz., one that sets up to be the head, or chooses to join himself
to a particular religious sect. I say who makes this the matter of his
choice because it is implied in the original signification of the word; and,
besides, nothing can be supposed to have any concern with religion but what
is a voluntary action. A heretic, therefore, in a bad sense, must be one who
knowingly espouses a false doctrine, is insincere in his profession, and
asserts and defends what he is convinced is contrary to Christianity, and,
consequently, one who maintains and supports the interest of a faction, to
serve some base designs. According to St. Paul's account in the text, a
heretic is not only subverted or turned aside from the true faith, he not
only entertains wrong sentiments of Christianity, but sinneth, i.e., doth
this wilfully, and with an ill attention. He is one that makes religion a
cloak for his immoralities, and espouses and propagates what he knows to be
false, to promote the ends of his ambition, covetousness, or sensual
pleasure; who, indeed, thinks it his interest to retain the name of a
Christian, and in that circumstance only differs from a thorough and wilful
apostate from Christianity, but which incurs the greater guilt may perhaps
be hard to determine; for as the one rejects the Christian religion
altogether, the other out of choice corrupts it, and opposes its true
doctrines, even while he pretends to believe and reverence its authority.
Such as these, I say, persons of such vile and dishonest principles, and of
so flagitious a character, are the heretics condemned by St. Paul; and
therefore to fix it as a term of reproach on any in whom there does not
appear hatred of the truth, a sensual mind, and a profligate conscience,
must be unChristian and scandalous. And if we examine other passages of the
New Testament we shall find that they all concur in giving us the same idea
of heresy. It is represented as a work of the flesh, because it has its
foundation in the corrupt inclinations of human nature. It is reckoned among
the most heinous and execrable vices -- such as adultery, idolatry, hatred,
variance, seditions, murders. And heretics are constantly described as men
of no probity or honour, strangers to all the principles of virtue, and
embracing such opinions only as were calculated for the gratification of
irregular appetites, and advancing selfish and worldly views (1 Tim 1:19; 2
Peter 2:1.)
1. It appears from what has been said that no mere error of the judgment can
be heresy. For heresy is a high degree of wickedness; and necessarily
supposes irregularity of the affections and a depraved and vicious choice;
whereas erroneous conceptions and apprehensions of things are no crime at
all, but natural to mankind in the present weak and imperfect state of the
faculties.
2. We may infer that no honest man can possibly be a heretic. He may,
indeed, have errors (and who is there among us that has not?) -- nay, he may
err in points of importance too, but his mistakes cannot be dangerous while
he takes care to maintain a good conscience.
3. If heresy be an error of the will, and such only can be guilty of it who
are condemned of themselves, how can we certainly know, in most cases at
least, whether a man be a heretic or not? Let each of us put this question
to himself impartially, and if we cannot answer it to our satisfaction, let
us, however, learn thus much from our ignorance, to be modest in the
censures we pass upon others. If it be said that such wicked deceivers are
generally known by their fruits, and that their vicious lives will show us
by what views they are acted, and the vile design of their imposture, I
answer that, even upon this supposition, I should think it better that they
be rejected for their immorality, which is notorious and palpable, than for
heresy, of which we cannot so certainly judge.
Wilful heresy
4. Though it be a point of great nicety to judge of heresy in particular
instances, the persons who come nearest the character of the old heretics
are violent party men, who confine Christianity to their own faction, and
excommunicate all that take the liberty to differ from them; the rigid
imposers of human schemes of doctrine and modes of worship, as essential
branches of religion, and laws binding conscience, these, I say, are most
like the heretics condemned in Scripture, notwithstanding their insolence
and presumption.
(James Foster)
Treatment of heretics: -- In what way are the directions here given to Titus
to be used for our own guidance at the present time? They do not apply to
persons who have always been, or who have ended in placing themselves
outside the Christian Church. They refer to persons who contend that their
self-chosen views are part and parcel of the gospel, and who claim to hold
and teach such views as members or even ministers of the Church. Secondly,
they refer to grave and fundamental errors with regard to first principles;
not to eccentric views respecting matters of detail. And in determining this
second point much caution will be needed; especially when inferences are
drawn from a man's teaching. We should be on our guard with regard to
assertions that a particular teacher virtually denies the Divinity of
Christ, or the Trinity, or the personality of God. But when both these
points are quite clear, that the person contradicts some of the primary
truths of the gospel, and that he claims to do so as a Christian, what is a
minister to do to such a member of his flock? He is to make one or two
effects to reclaim him, and then to have as little to do with him as
possible. In all such cases there are three sets of persons to be
considered: the heretic himself, those who have to deal with him, and the
Church at large. What conduct on the part of those who have to deal with him
will be least prejudicial to themselves and to the Church, and most
beneficial to the man himself? The supreme law of charity must be the
guiding principle. But that is no true charity which shows tenderness to one
person in such a way as to do grievous harm to others, or to do more harm
than good to the person who receives it. Love of what is good is not only
consistent with hatred of what is evil; it cannot exist without such hatred.
What we have to consider, therefore, is this. Will friendliness confirm him
in his error? Would he be more impressed by severity? Is intercourse with
him likely to lead to our being led astray? Will it increase his influence
and his opportunities of doing harm? Is severity likely to excite sympathy
in other people, first for him, and then for his teaching? It is impossible
to lay down a hard and fast rule that would cover all cases; and while we
remember the stern instructions which St. Paul gives to Titus, and St. John
to the "elect lady," let us not forget the way in which Jesus Christ treated
publicans and sinners.
(A. Plummer, D. D.)
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject: --
We have been asked to join in certain projects in which there are some
heretics. I am not interested in being joined with anyone who has views that
are in opposition to the Word of God. God tells us here to be separate from
heretics. Just let them alone; reject them.
Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of
himself: -- The heretic is one who has turned aside from the truth.
(J.V. McGee, Th.M., Th.D.)
"Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time." -- The Greek
for "divisive person" became a technical term in the early church for a type
of "heretic" who promoted dissention by propogating extreme views of
legitimate Christian truths. "After that, have nothing to do with him. You
may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned." --
Stubborn refusal to listen to correction reveals inner perversion.
(from The NIV Study Bible)
"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of
himself." -- A heretic was originally one who caused divisions or factions,
but later the word emphasized such a person's peculiar or unorthodox
beliefs. Therefore, heretics and schismatics are to be rejected. As in all
his epistles, Paul urges fidelity to the apostle's doctrine. The word
"heresy" literally means "choosing one's own ideas," but now refers to that
which is untrue. Even the New Testament church had false or heretical
teachers who taught erroneous doctrine. Some epistles were specifically
written to combate them (e.g., Galatians, 2 Thessalonians). Paul warned the
Romans against identifying with those who promoted divisive, heretical
teachings (Rom. 16:17). He advised Titus to reject heretics if they did not
respond after two warnings (v. 10). John warned that a heretic should not be
admitted into a Christian's home (2 John 10). ILLUSTRATION: Not everyone who
makes an incorrect doctrinal statement is a heretic. When Apollos was
further instructed concerning the gospel, he grew into a might Christian
leader (Acts 18:24-28). By contrast, Hymeneus and Philetus were heretics
when they rejected God's truth and hurt the faith in some believers (2
Timothy 2:16-18). APPLICATION: Christians should as much as possible
dissociate themselves from every heretic so as to be unhindered in their
Christian lives. (First Reference, Acts 15:1; Primary Reference, Titus 3:10;
cf. John 21:18.)
(from The King James Study Bible)
"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject" --
"Heretick" (Gr hairetikos) means "to choose, prefer, or take for oneself."
It has the idea of choosing to believe what one wants, in spite of what God
says. The Word of God must be the final authority for what we believe. Those
who accept so-called "further revelations" which are contrary to the Word of
God are heretics and should be rejected. "Knowing that he that is such is
subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself" -- This one is
"subverted" (Gr ektrepo), meaning twisted. It is a medical term used of such
as an ankle that had been sprained. Being condemned of himself (Gr
autokatakritos) means self-condemned. By his own contentions, the subverted
one condemns himself and show whose camp he is in.
(from The KJV Parallel Bible Commentary)
RSV/TEV COMPARISON
"As for a man who is factious, after admonishing him once or twice, have
nothing more to do with him,"
After mentioning the teachings and actions of the heretical teachers, Paul
now turns his attention to the teachers themselves, although in a subtle
manner, referring to them by the expression a man who is factious. The word
for factious appears only here in the whole New Testament; it is the word
from which the modern word "heretic" is derived. The term is derived from
the word that means "division" and therefore is used to describe the act of
being divisive or causing divisions and splits within a certain group. KJV
has used the word "heretic" in this verse, which seems to be less than
accurate, since "heresy" as it is now understood puts focus on wrong or
false doctrines that are professed by people, whereas the focus here is on
the negative behavior of these people that for whatever reason gives rise to
divisions and splits. It has been appropriately remarked by one commentator
that, in the present-day church, people who are so intent on getting rid of
heretics (in the sense that they hold different theological views) are in
fact the ones who are causing the greatest divisions within the body of
Christ! (Another way of putting it is that it is the people who want to get
rid of heretics in the modern sense who in fact are the heretics in the
biblical sense).
Admonishing comes from a verb that refers to advising someone regarding the
serious consequences of some action; hence "to warn," "to admonish," "to
caution." Once or twice may mean "at least two times" (so TEV "Give at least
two warnings") or "no more than twice" (TNT; so also NRSV "after a first and
second admonition," REB "he should be allowed a second warning"). In
languages that must give the content of the verb "admonish" or "warn," one
may translate "You must warn at least two times those who cause divisions in
the church to stop doing that" or "You must say to those who cause people in
the church to divide into groups, 'Stop doing this!' If you have to say this
on two occasions and they won't stop, don't have . . . ."
For the expression have nothing more to do with him, see 1 Tim 4:7, where a
similar expression occurs; also 2 Tim 2:23. The expression may simply mean
not to have any more dealings with the person so as to make them feel that
they are no longer part of the Christian community, or less likely, to
formally exclude the person from the church (hence excommunication). See
further comments on 1 Tim 1:20.
"knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned."
Treating the factious person in this harsh way is justified by that person's
bad qualities, of which Titus is very much aware. Knowing refers to Titus'
knowledge about such a person. An equivalent expression is "I am sure you
know" or "You must certainly know."
Perverted translates the perfect passive form of a verb that occurs only
here in the New Testament and is used to describe the act of departing from
what is accepted as correct behavior. Some take this perversion to be in the
area of thinking rather than of action (for example, TNT "perverted mind,"
REB "distorted mind," CEV "their minds are twisted"). This means that the
focus here is not on doing what is wrong but on not believing what is right.
This means that perverted here has the same meaning as "reject the truth" in
Titus 1:14. There is, however, no unanimity regarding this, and therefore it
may be best to understand the term in a more general way, to include both
perversion of mind and the resulting corrupt behavior.
For sinful see "persist in sin" in 1 Tim 5:20. This is actually a third
person singular verb, present tense, in the Greek, indicating the habitual
and continuous nature of the act of sinning.
The word for self-condemned occurs only here in the whole New Testament and
refers to being condemned by, or as a result of, one's own actions. This
means that, in the case of the false teachers, there is no need for a formal
trial, since their own actions are more than enough to prove that they are
guilty of sinning against God and therefore deserve to be treated as
outsiders.
How do these three items relate to each other? The Greek can be rendered
literally as "having been perverted, such a one also sins by being
self-condemned." This seems to indicate that the initial act is perversion;
this results in habitual sinfulness, and it is these sinful acts that prove
that a person is guilty before God and therefore deserves to receive the
punishment of being rejected by the church.
An alternative translation model for this verse is:
"I am sure that you know that such a person has a twisted mind. His sins
then show how guilty he is before God."
(from the UBS New Testament Handbook Series)
What The Bible Says About A Godly Attitude Toward Heresy:
1. Try them . . .
1 John 4:1, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether
they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
2. Mark them . . .
Romans 16:17, "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions
and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid
them."
3. Rebuke them . . .
Titus 1:13, "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they
may be sound in the faith; . . ."
4. Have no fellowship . . .
Ephesians 5:11, "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of
darkness, but rather reprove them."
5. Withdraw thyself . . .
2 Thessalonians 3:6, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord
Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh
disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us." (See also
1 Timothy 6:3-5).
6. Turn away from them . . .
2 Timothy 3:5 " . . .Having a form of godliness, but denying the power
thereof: from such turn away."
7. Receive them not . . .
2 John 1:10,11, "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine,
receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that
biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." To our day false
teachings are fostered by misplaced hospitality.
8. Have no company with him . . .
2 Thessalonians 3:14, "And if any man obey not our word by this epistle,
note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed."
9. Reject them . . .
Titus 3:10, "A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition
reject; . . ."
10. Be ye separate . . .
2 Corinthians 6:17, "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate,
saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, . .
.."
(G. Archer Weniger, D.D.)
---
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Heresies & Heretics (Titus 3:10,11) |
07 Jun 2007 11:05:30 PM |
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Last time that great scribe Carl <saints@nettally.com> chipped away at
his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
The Word of God must be the final authority for what we Christians believe.
Those who intentionally promote heresies?
Translation - hegemony. No thanks! I prefer diversity over orthodoxy any
day. Diversity is what gives the gene pool in a species robustness. Same
with all other things in life.
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
.
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Heresies & Heretics (Titus 3:10,11) |
06 Jun 2007 01:29:43 AM |
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On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 16:22:36 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:
The Word of God must be the final authority for what we Christians believe.
Those who intentionally promote heresies?
Carl,
What the following says is that you do not have the authority to
decide who is a heretick. Jesus Christ through the Apostle Paul
delegated that authority to Titus who was over the assemblies "in
every city". The authority was not given to babes in Christ, the
unlearned, disciples, evangelists, pastors, or teachers, or bishops or
elders - and certainly not to you or the article writers you like to
spam for. Read the context of Titus. Learn who Titus was and what
his position in the church was. All indicators are that he spoke for
God which means that he was a prophet. Hence, Jesus Christ delegated
authority to determine who is a heretick to prophets; not you.
You are cut and pasting verses out of context in an attempt to cause
people to sin and to promote eny and hatred in the body of Christ.
Maybe you ought to learn the word of God before you do more foolish
things that cause people to sin and get hurt for sinning.
You need to stop seeking glory for yourself and start loving people.
Love of self is okay; but self promotion is the sign of a weak man who
does not believe in himself.
If anyone in this group is promoting it is Copycat Carl who
intentionally promoptes heresies by cutting and pasting false
doctrines into posts - doctrines which you do not even understand.
By the way, why did you weasel out of Gregory Greenman's question?
Because then you would have to reveal that Judas was still alive up to
the time of the ascencion and that would screw up some of your false
doctrines. Of course, it is also possible that you were afraid to
answer him because you did not know how to answer his simple question.
You need to stop being a fraud.
Are you the well known internet troll who calls himself
"IKnowHimDoYou?" Rogue seems inclined to think you are and he is
pretty good when it comes to internet stuff. How about a truthful
answer?
Bob
"Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that,
have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and
sinful; he is self-condemned." (Titus 3:10,11 -- NIV)
"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of
himself." (Titus 3:10,11 -- KJV)
"Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that
such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned." (Titus
3:10,11 -- NKJV)
"A factious man after a first and second admonition refuse; knowing that
such a one is perverted, and sinneth, being self-condemned." (Titus
3:10,11 -- ASV)
"Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a
man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned." (Titus 3:10,11 --
NASU)
"[As for] a man who is factious [a heretical sectarian and cause of
divisions], after admonishing him a first and second time, reject [him from
your fellowship and have nothing more to do with him]" (Titus 3:10,11 --
AMP)
"Al hombre que cause divisiones, después de una y otra amonestación
deséchalo, sabiendo que el tal se ha pervertido, y peca y está condenado por
su propio juicio." (Titus 3:10,11 -- RVR)
"A sectarian man, after a first and second admonition be rejecting, having
known that he hath been subverted who [is] such, and doth sin, being
self-condemned. (Titus 3:10,11 -- YLT)
"Give at least two warnings to the person who causes divisions, and then
have nothing more to do with him. You know that such a person is corrupt,
and his sins prove that he is wrong." (Titus 3:10,11 -- TEV)
[A man that is an heretic] The word "heretic" is now commonly applied to one
who holds some fundamental error of doctrine, "a person who holds and
teaches opinions repugnant to the established faith, or that which is made
the standard of orthodoxy." Webster. The Greek word here used hairetikos
occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. The corresponding noun hairesis
occurs in the following places: Acts 5:17; 15:5; 24:5; 26:5; 28:22, where it
is rendered "sect;" and Acts 25:14; 1 Cor 11:19; Gal 5:20; 2 Peter 2:1,
where it is rendered "heresy," and "heresies;" see the notes at Acts 24:14.
The true notion of the word is that of one who is a promoter of a sect or
party. The man who makes divisions in a church, instead of aiming to promote
unity, is the one who is intended. Such a man may form sects and parties on
some points of doctrine on which be differs from others, or on some custom,
religious rite, or special practice; he may make some unimportant matter a
ground of distinction from his brethren, and may refuse to have fellowship
with them, and endeavor to get up a new organization. Such a man, according
to the Scripture usage, is a heretic, and not merely one who holds a
different doctrine from that which is regarded as orthodoxy. The spirit of
the doctrine here is the same as in Rom 16:17, and the same class of persons
is referred to. "Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to
the doctrine which ye have received; and avoid them." See the notes at that
passage. The word here used is defined by Robinson (Lexicon), "one who
creates dissensions, introduces errors, a factious person." It is not found
in classic Greek, but often in ecclesiastical writers; see Suicer's
Thesaurus.
[After the first and second admonition] Compare Matt 18:15-17. That is, do
not do it hastily and rashly. Give him an opportunity to explain himself,
and to repent and abandon his course. No man is to be cut off without giving
him a proper opportunity to vindicate his conduct, and to repent if he has
done wrong. If after the first and second admonition a man who is
undoubtedly doing wrong, will not repent, then he is to be cut off. The
apostle does not say in what way this admonition is to be given, or whether
it should be public or private. The language which he uses would justify
either, and the method which is to be adopted is doubtless to be determined
by circumstances. The thing which is to be reached is, that his fault is to
be fairly set before his mind.
[Reject] paraitou. This word is rendered "excuse" in Luke 14:18-19;
"refuse," Acts 25:11; 1 Tim 4:7; 5:11; Heb 12:25; "avoid," 2 Tim 2:23, and
"entreated," Heb 12:19. Its prevailing meaning, as used in connections like
the one before us, is to reject in relation to an office; that is, to
decline appointing one to an office. It probably had a primary reference to
that here, and meant that a man who was given to making dissensions, or who
was a factious person, should not be admitted to an office in the church.
The general direction would also include this, - that he should not be
admitted to the church. He is neither to be owned as a member, nor admitted
to office; compare Matt 18:17. "Let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a
publican." In regard to this passage, then, we may observe:
(1) That the utmost limit which this allows is mere exclusion. It does not
allow us to follow the offender with injury.
(2) It does not authorize us to oppose one on account of his mere private
opinions. The essential idea is that of a factious, division-making man; a
man who aims to form sects and parties,whether on account of opinions, or
from any other cause.
(3) It does not make it right to deliver such a man over to the "secular
arm," or to harm him in body, soul, property, or reputation. It gives no
power to torture him on the rack, or with thumb-screws, or to bind him to
the stake. It authorizes us not to recognize him as a Christian brother, or
to admit him to an office in the church-but beyond this it gives us no right
to go. He has a right to his own opinion still, as far as we are concerned,
and we are not to molest him in the enjoyment of that right.
(4) It demands that, when a man is undoubtedly a heretic in the sense here
explained, there should be the utmost kindness towards him, in order if
possible to reclaim him. We should not begin by attacking and denouncing his
opinions; or by formally arraigning him; or by blazoning his name as a
heretic; but he is to be dealt with in all Christian kindness and brotherly
fidelity. He is to be admonished more than once by those who have the right
to admonish him; and then, and then only, if he does not repent, he is to be
simply avoided. That is to be an end of the matter so far as we are
concerned. The power of the church there ceases. It has no power to deliver
him over to anyone else for persecution or punishment, or in any way to
meddle with him. He may live where he pleases; pursue his own plans;
entertain his own opinions or company, provided he does not interfere with
us; and though we have a right to examine the opinions which he may
entertain, yet our work with him is done. If these plain principles had been
observed, what scenes of bloody and cruel persecution in the church would
have been avoided!
"Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of
himself."
[Knowing that he that is such is subverted] Literally, "is turned out;" or,
"is changed," i.e., for the worse. He has gone from the right way, and
therefore he should be rejected.
[And sinneth, being condemned of himself] His own conscience condemns him.
He will approve the sentence, for he knows that he is wrong; and his
self-condemnation will be punishment sufficient. His own course, in
attempting a division or schism in the church, shows him that it is right
that he should be separated from the communion of Christians. He that
attempts to rend the church, without a good reason, should himself be
separated from it.
(from Barnes' Notes)
"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"
The ministers of the word must at once cast off heretics, that is, those who
stubbornly and seditiously disquiet the Church, and will pay no attention to
ecclesiastical admonitions.
(from Geneva Notes)
"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"
Heretic. Heresy, originally a division resulting from self-will; the
individual doing and teaching what he chose independently of the church.
More aggravated than schism (1 Cor 11:19; Gal 5:20): divisions on church
matters not necessarily fundamental (Titus 1:14; 5:9 ). In course of time it
came to mean 'heresy' in the modern sense, 'the open espousal of fundamental
error.' The heretics of Crete were in doctrine followers of their own self-
willed questions (Titus 3:9), and immoral in practice.
Admonition - by word [nouthesia: but paideia, by chastisements].
Reject, [paraitou] - literally, ask off from,: 'shun.' Not formal
excommunication, but have nothing more to do with him, either in admonition
or conversation.
"Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of
himself."
Knowing-by the ill success of your admonitions.
Is subverted [exestraptai] - is perverted; literally, turned inside out;
i.e., completely changed for the worse (Deut 32:20) [dowr tahpukot].
Condemned of himself - continuing the same after frequent admonition, he is
self-condemned. When 'he sinneth' he doeth what his own knowledge virtually
condemns.
(from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary)
The treatment of heretics (Titus 3:9-15)
Here is the fifth and last thing in the matter of the epistle: what Titus
should avoid in teaching; how he should deal with a heretic; with some other
directions.
Observe,
I. That the apostle's meaning might be more clear and full, and especially
fitted to the time and state of things in Crete, and the many judaizers
among them, he tells Titus what, in teaching, he should shun, v. 9. There
are needful questions to be discussed and cleared, such as make for
improvement in useful knowledge; but idle and foolish enquiries, tending
neither to God's glory nor the edification of men, must be shunned. Some may
have a show of wisdom, but are vain, as many among the Jewish doctors, as
well as of later schoolmen, who abound with questions of no moment or use to
faith or practice; avoid these.- - And genealogies (of the gods, say some,
that the heathen poets made such noise about; or rather those that the Jews
were so curious in): some lawful and useful enquiries might be made into
these things, to see the fulfilling of the scriptures in some cases, and
especially in the descent of Christ the Messiah; but all that served to pomp
only, and to feed vanity, in boasting of a long pedigree, and much more such
as the Jewish teachers were ready to busy themselves in and trouble their
hearers with, even since Christ had come, and that distinction of families
and tribes had been taken away, as if they would build again that policy
which now is abolished, these Titus must withstand as foolish and vain.- -
And contentious, and strivings about the law. There were those who were for
the Mosaic rites and ceremonies, and would have them continued in the
church, though by the gospel and the coming of Christ they were superseded
and done away.
Titus must give no countenance to these, but avoid and oppose them; for they
are unprofitable and vain: this is to be referred to all those foolish
questions and genealogies, as well as those strivings about the law. They
are so far from instructing and building up in godliness, that they are
hindrances of it rather: the Christian religion, and good works, which are
to be maintained, will hereby be weakened and prejudiced, the peace of the
church disturbed, and the progress of the gospel hindered. Observe,
Ministers must not only teach things good and useful, but shun and oppose
the contrary, what would corrupt the faith, and hinder godliness and good
works; nor should people have itching ears, but love and embrace sound
doctrine, which tends most to the use of edifying.
II. But because, after all, there will be heresies and heretics in the
church, the apostle next directs Titus what to do in such a case, and how to
deal with such, v. 10. He who forsakes the truth as it is in Christ Jesus,
who broaches false doctrines and propagates them to the corrupting of the
faith in weighty and momentous points, and breaks the peace of the church
about them, after due means used to reclaim him, must be rejected. "Admonish
him once and again, that, if possible, he may be brought back, and thou
mayest gain thy brother; but, if this will not reduce him, that others be
not hurt, cast him out of the communion, and warn all Christians to avoid
him." - Knowing that he that is such is subverted (turned off from the
foundation) and sinneth grievously, being self-condemned. Those who will not
be reclaimed by admonitions, but are obstinate in their sins and errors, are
subverted and self-condemned; they inflict that punishment upon themselves
which the governors of the church should inflict upon them: they throw
themselves out of the church, and throw off its communion, and so are
self-condemned. Observe,
1. How great an evil real heresy is, not lightly therefore to be charged
upon any, though greatly to be taken heed of by all. Such a one is subverted
or perverted-a metaphor from a building so ruined as to render it difficult
if not impossible to repair and raise it up again. Real heretics have seldom
been recovered to the true faith: not so much defect of judgment, as
perverseness of the will, being in the case, through pride, or ambition, or
self-willedness, or covetousness, or such like corruption, which therefore
must be taken heed of: "Be humble, love the truth and practise it, and
damning heresy will be escaped."
2. Pains and patience must be used about those that err most grievously.
They are not easily and soon to be given up and cast off, but competent time
and means must be tried for their recovery.
3. The church's means even with heretics are persuasive and rational. They
must be admonished, instructed, and warned; so much nouthesia imports.
4. Upon continued obstinacy and irreclaimableness, the church has power, and
is obliged, to preserve its own purity, by severing such a corrupt member
which discipline may by God's blessing become effectual to reform the
offender, or if not it will leave him the more inexcusable in his
condemnation.
III. The apostle subjoins some further directions, v. 12, 13. Here are two
personal things enjoined:-
1. That Titus should hold himself ready to come to Paul at Nicopolis (a city
of Thrace, as is reckoned, on the borders of Macedonia), as soon as Artemas
or Tychicus should be sent to Crete, to supply his place, and take care of
the churches there when he should leave them. The apostle would not have
them in their young and weak state be without one or other of chief
sufficiency, to guide and help them. Titus, it seems, was not their ordinary
fixed bishop or pastor, but an evangelist, otherwise Paul would not have
called him so much from his charge. Of Artemas we read little, but Tychicus
is mentioned on many occasions with respect. Paul calls him a beloved
brother, and faithful minister, and fellow-servant in the Lord: one fit
therefore for the service intimated. When Paul says to Titus, Be diligent to
come to me to Nicopolis, for I have determined there to winter, it is plain
that the epistle was not written from Nicopolis, as the postcript would have
it, for then he would have said, I determined here, not there, to winter.
2. The other personal charge to Titus is that he would bring two of his
friends on their journey diligently, and see them furnished, so that nothing
should be wanting to them. This was to be done, not as a piece of common
civility only, but of Christian piety, out of respect both to them and the
work they were sent about, which probably was to preach the gospel, or to be
in some way serviceable to the churches. Zenas is styled the lawyer, whether
in reference to the Roman or the Mosaic law, as having some time been his
profession, is doubtful. Apollos was an eminent and faithful minister.
Accompanying such persons part of their way, and accommodating them for
their work and journeys, was a pious and needful service; and to further
this, and lay in for it, what the apostle had before exhorted Titus to teach
(v. 8) he repeats here: Let ours also learn to maintain good works for
necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful, v. 14. Let Christians, those
who have believed in God, learn to maintain good works, especially such as
these, supporting ministers in their work of preaching and spreading the
gospel, hereby becoming fellow-helpers to the truth, 3 John 5-8. That they
be not unfruitful. Christianity is not a fruitless profession; the
professors of it must be filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are
by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God. It is not enough that they
be harmless, but they must be profitable, doing good, as well as eschewing
evil.- - "Let ours set up and maintain some honest labour and employment, to
provide for themselves and their families, that they be not unprofitable
burdens on the earth;" so some understand it. Let them not think that
Christianity gives them a writ of ease; no, it lays an obligation upon them
to seek some honest work and calling, and therein to abide with God. This is
of good report, will credit religion and be good to mankind; they will not
be unprofitable members of the body, not burdensome and chargeable to
others, but enabled to be helpful to those in want. To maintain good works
for necessary uses; not living like drones on the labours of others, but
themselves fruitful to the common benefit.
IV. The apostle concludes with salutations and benedictions, v. 5. Though
perhaps not personally known (some of them at least), yet all by Paul
testify their love and good wishes to Titus, owning him thereby in his work,
and stimulating him to go on therein. Great comfort and encouragement it is
to have the heart and prayers of other Christians with and for us. Greet
those that love us in the faith, or for the faith, who are our loving
fellow-christians. Holiness, or the image of God in any, is the great
endearing thing that gives strength to all other bonds, and is itself the
best. Grace be with you all. Amen. This is the closing benediction, not to
Titus alone, but to all the faithful with him, which shows that though the
epistle bears the single name of Titus in the inscription, yet it was for
the use of the churches there, and they were in the eye, and upon the heart,
of the apostle, in the writing of it. "Grace be with you all, the love and
favour of God, with the fruits and effects thereof, according to need,
spiritual ones especially, and the increase and feeling of them more and
more in your souls." This is the apostle's wish and prayer, showing his
affection to them, his desire of their good, and a means of obtaining for
them, and bringing down upon them, the thing requested. Observe, Grace is
the chief thing to be wished and begged for, with respect to ourselves or
others; it is, summarily, all good. Amen shuts up the prayer, expressing
desire and hope, that so it may, and so it shall be.
(from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition)
Treatment of heretics: -- Paul having exhorted Titus both to teach the truth
according to godliness, as also to resist all such foolish and vain doctrine
as might do hurt in the Church of God. Titus might object: This indeed is my
duty wherein I extend to exercise myself with diligence; but when I have
laboured and done all I can, many there are who will not yield to the truth,
nor submit themselves to this ordinance of God; how am I to carry myself
towards such? Answer: The apostle, careful to prevent all such things as he
foresaw might be hurtful to the Church, giveth direction in these two verses
how to proceed in this business also. The former, giving direction and
laying down the duty; and the latter, enforcing the same by moment of
reason. In the former are three things to be considered:
1. The persons against whom Titus is to deal -- here called heretics.
2. The direction how he is to behave himself towards them -- reject them.
3. The orderly manner of proceeding, after once or twice admonition.
The latter verse containeth the reason of this severity, because such
persons are incurable and incorrigible; which is proved by two arguments.
1. Such a one is subverted, that is, turned or cast off the foundation.
2. He sinneth against his own conscience, being damned of his own self, that
is, he wittingly and willingly spurneth against that truth of which his
conscience is by the former admonition convinced.
(T. Taylor, D. D.)
Heresy not to be trifled with: -- I am asked sometimes to read an heretical
book. Well, if I believed my reading it would help its refutation, and might
be an assistance to others in keeping them out of error, I might do it as a
hard matter of duty, but I shall not do it unless I see some good will come
from it. I am not going to drag my spirit through a ditch for the sake of
having it washed afterwards, for it is not my own. It may be that good
medicine would restore me if I poisoned myself with putrid meat, but I am
not going to try it: I dare not experiment on a mind which no longer belongs
to me. There is a mother and a child, and the child has a book to play with,
and a blacklead pencil. It is making drawings and marks upon the book, and
the mother takes no notice. It lays down one book and snatches another from
the table, and at once the mother rises from her seat, and hurriedly takes
the book away, saying: "No, my dear, you must not mark that, for it is not
ours." So with my mind, intellect, and spirit; if it belonged to me I might
or might not play tomfool with it, and go to hear Socinians, Universalists,
and suchlike preach; but as it is not my own, I will preserve it from such
fooleries, and the pure word shall not be mingled with the errors of men.
(C. H. Spurgeon)
Contagion of false doctrine: -- Sin is like the bale of goods which came
from the East to this city in the olden time, which brought the pest in it.
Probably it was but a small bale, but yet it contained in it the deaths of
hundreds of the inhabitants of London. In those days one piece of rag
carried the infection into a whole town. So, if you permit one sin or false
doctrine in a church knowingly and wittingly, none can tell the extent to
which that evil may ultimately go. The Church, therefore, is to be purged of
practical and doctrinal evil as diligently as possible That sour and
corrupting thing which God abhors must be purged out, and it is to be the
business of the Christian minister, and of all his fellow helpers, to keep
the church free from it.
(C. H. Spurgeon)
Wilful heresy: -- Heresy, in the New Testament, is most commonly used in an
indifferent sense, and but seldom in a bad one. It generally signifies no
more than a sect or party in religion. Thus we read of the sect, or heresy,
of the Sadducees; of the sect, or heresy, of the Pharisees; St. Paul is
styled a ring leader of the sect, or heresy, of the Nazarenes; and he says
of himself that, after the strictest sect (where the same Greek word is
used) of the Jewish religion, he lived a Pharisee. In this last passage
particularly nothing can be more plain than that the word has an innocent
meaning, since the apostle rather commends than charges himself with
anything criminal for having been a Pharisee before his conversion to the
Christian faith. And we find it applied in the same manner in Acts 28:22. I
shall mention but one text more, and that is, "For there must also be
heresies among you," etc. (1 Cor 11:19). The evident design of which is,
that considering the various tempers of men, their different views,
passions, prejudices, their selfishness, ambition, vanity, and the like, it
was natural to expect that they would divide into parties about religion, as
well as about politics, and the civil affairs of life; and that the
providence of God wisely permitted this for the trial of their integrity,
and to distinguish the indolent, careless, and insincere from the real
friends of truth, persons of an honest, inquisitive, and ingenuous temper.
Now, according to this account, the general notion of a heretic is no more
than this, viz., one that sets up to be the head, or chooses to join himself
to a particular religious sect. I say who makes this the matter of his
choice because it is implied in the original signification of the word; and,
besides, nothing can be supposed to have any concern with religion but what
is a voluntary action. A heretic, therefore, in a bad sense, must be one who
knowingly espouses a false doctrine, is insincere in his profession, and
asserts and defends what he is convinced is contrary to Christianity, and,
consequently, one who maintains and supports the interest of a faction, to
serve some base designs. According to St. Paul's account in the text, a
heretic is not only subverted or turned aside from the true faith, he not
only entertains wrong sentiments of Christianity, but sinneth, i.e., doth
this wilfully, and with an ill attention. He is one that makes religion a
cloak for his immoralities, and espouses and propagates what he knows to be
false, to promote the ends of his ambition, covetousness, or sensual
pleasure; who, indeed, thinks it his interest to retain the name of a
Christian, and in that circumstance only differs from a thorough and wilful
apostate from Christianity, but which incurs the greater guilt may perhaps
be hard to determine; for as the one rejects the Christian religion
altogether, the other out of choice corrupts it, and opposes its true
doctrines, even while he pretends to believe and reverence its authority.
Such as these, I say, persons of such vile and dishonest principles, and of
so flagitious a character, are the heretics condemned by St. Paul; and
therefore to fix it as a term of reproach on any in whom there does not
appear hatred of the truth, a sensual mind, and a profligate conscience,
must be unChristian and scandalous. And if we examine other passages of the
New Testament we shall find that they all concur in giving us the same idea
of heresy. It is represented as a work of the flesh, because it has its
foundation in the corrupt inclinations of human nature. It is reckoned among
the most heinous and execrable vices -- such as adultery, idolatry, hatred,
variance, seditions, murders. And heretics are constantly described as men
of no probity or honour, strangers to all the principles of virtue, and
embracing such opinions only as were calculated for the gratification of
irregular appetites, and advancing selfish and worldly views (1 Tim 1:19; 2
Peter 2:1.)
1. It appears from what has been said that no mere error of the judgment can
be heresy. For heresy is a high degree of wickedness; and necessarily
supposes irregularity of the affections and a depraved and vicious choice;
whereas erroneous conceptions and apprehensions of things are no crime at
all, but natural to mankind in the present weak and imperfect state of the
faculties.
2. We may infer that no honest man can possibly be a heretic. He may,
indeed, have errors (and who is there among us that has not?) -- nay, he may
err in points of importance too, but his mistakes cannot be dangerous while
he takes care to maintain a good conscience.
3. If heresy be an error of the will, and such only can be guilty of it who
are condemned of themselves, how can we certainly know, in most cases at
least, whether a man be a heretic or not? Let each of us put this question
to himself impartially, and if we cannot answer it to our satisfaction, let
us, however, learn thus much from our ignorance, to be modest in the
censures we pass upon others. If it be said that such wicked deceivers are
generally known by their fruits, and that their vicious lives will show us
by what views they are acted, and the vile design of their imposture, I
answer that, even upon this supposition, I should think it better that they
be rejected for their immorality, which is notorious and palpable, than for
heresy, of which we cannot so certainly judge.
Wilful heresy
4. Though it be a point of great nicety to judge of heresy in particular
instances, the persons who come nearest the character of the old heretics
are violent party men, who confine Christianity to their own faction, and
excommunicate all that take the liberty to differ from them; the rigid
imposers of human schemes of doctrine and modes of worship, as essential
branches of religion, and laws binding conscience, these, I say, are most
like the heretics condemned in Scripture, notwithstanding their insolence
and presumption.
(James Foster)
Treatment of heretics: -- In what way are the directions here given to Titus
to be used for our own guidance at the present time? They do not apply to
persons who have always been, or who have ended in placing themselves
outside the Christian Church. They refer to persons who contend that their
self-chosen views are part and parcel of the gospel, and who claim to hold
and teach such views as members or even ministers of the Church. Secondly,
they refer to grave and fundamental errors with regard to first principles;
not to eccentric views respecting matters of detail. And in determining this
second point much caution will be needed; especially when inferences are
drawn from a man's teaching. We should be on our guard with regard to
assertions that a particular teacher virtually denies the Divinity of
Christ, or the Trinity, or the personality of God. But when both these
points are quite clear, that the person contradicts some of the primary
truths of the gospel, and that he claims to do so as a Christian, what is a
minister to do to such a member of his flock? He is to make one or two
effects to reclaim him, and then to have as little to do with him as
possible. In all such cases there are three sets of persons to be
considered: the heretic himself, those who have to deal with him, and the
Church at large. What conduct on the part of those who have to deal with him
will be least prejudicial to themselves and to the Church, and most
beneficial to the man himself? The supreme law of charity must be the
guiding principle. But that is no true charity which shows tenderness to one
person in such a way as to do grievous harm to others, or to do more harm
than good to the person who receives it. Love of what is good is not only
consistent with hatred of what is evil; it cannot exist without such hatred.
What we have to consider, therefore, is this. Will friendliness confirm him
in his error? Would he be more impressed by severity? Is intercourse with
him likely to lead to our being led astray? Will it increase his influence
and his opportunities of doing harm? Is severity likely to excite sympathy
in other people, first for him, and then for his teaching? It is impossible
to lay down a hard and fast rule that would cover all cases; and while we
remember the stern instructions which St. Paul gives to Titus, and St. John
to the "elect lady," let us not forget the way in which Jesus Christ treated
publicans and sinners.
(A. Plummer, D. D.)
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject: --
We have been asked to join in certain projects in which there are some
heretics. I am not interested in being joined with anyone who has views that
are in opposition to the Word of God. God tells us here to be separate from
heretics. Just let them alone; reject them.
Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of
himself: -- The heretic is one who has turned aside from the truth.
(J.V. McGee, Th.M., Th.D.)
"Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time." -- The Greek
for "divisive person" became a technical term in the early church for a type
of "heretic" who promoted dissention by propogating extreme views of
legitimate Christian truths. "After that, have nothing to do with him. You
may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned." --
Stubborn refusal to listen to correction reveals inner perversion.
(from The NIV Study Bible)
"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of
himself." -- A heretic was originally one who caused divisions or factions,
but later the word emphasized such a person's peculiar or unorthodox
beliefs. Therefore, heretics and schismatics are to be rejected. As in all
his epistles, Paul urges fidelity to the apostle's doctrine. The word
"heresy" literally means "choosing one's own ideas," but now refers to that
which is untrue. Even the New Testament church had false or heretical
teachers who taught erroneous doctrine. Some epistles were specifically
written to combate them (e.g., Galatians, 2 Thessalonians). Paul warned the
Romans against identifying with those who promoted divisive, heretical
teachings (Rom. 16:17). He advised Titus to reject heretics if they did not
respond after two warnings (v. 10). John warned that a heretic should not be
admitted into a Christian's home (2 John 10). ILLUSTRATION: Not everyone who
makes an incorrect doctrinal statement is a heretic. When Apollos was
further instructed concerning the gospel, he grew into a might Christian
leader (Acts 18:24-28). By contrast, Hymeneus and Philetus were heretics
when they rejected God's truth and hurt the faith in some believers (2
Timothy 2:16-18). APPLICATION: Christians should as much as possible
dissociate themselves from every heretic so as to be unhindered in their
Christian lives. (First Reference, Acts 15:1; Primary Reference, Titus 3:10;
cf. John 21:18.)
(from The King James Study Bible)
"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject" --
"Heretick" (Gr hairetikos) means "to choose, prefer, or take for oneself."
It has the idea of choosing to believe what one wants, in spite of what God
says. The Word of God must be the final authority for what we believe. Those
who accept so-called "further revelations" which are contrary to the Word of
God are heretics and should be rejected. "Knowing that he that is such is
subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself" -- This one is
"subverted" (Gr ektrepo), meaning twisted. It is a medical term used of such
as an ankle that had been sprained. Being condemned of himself (Gr
autokatakritos) means self-condemned. By his own contentions, the subverted
one condemns himself and show whose camp he is in.
(from The KJV Parallel Bible Commentary)
RSV/TEV COMPARISON
"As for a man who is factious, after admonishing him once or twice, have
nothing more to do with him,"
After mentioning the teachings and actions of the heretical teachers, Paul
now turns his attention to the teachers themselves, although in a subtle
manner, referring to them by the expression a man who is factious. The word
for factious appears only here in the whole New Testament; it is the word
from which the modern word "heretic" is derived. The term is derived from
the word that means "division" and therefore is used to describe the act of
being divisive or causing divisions and splits within a certain group. KJV
has used the word "heretic" in this verse, which seems to be less than
accurate, since "heresy" as it is now understood puts focus on wrong or
false doctrines that are professed by people, whereas the focus here is on
the negative behavior of these people that for whatever reason gives rise to
divisions and splits. It has been appropriately remarked by one commentator
that, in the present-day church, people who are so intent on getting rid of
heretics (in the sense that they hold different theological views) are in
fact the ones who are causing the greatest divisions within the body of
Christ! (Another way of putting it is that it is the people who want to get
rid of heretics in the modern sense who in fact are the heretics in the
biblical sense).
Admonishing comes from a verb that refers to advising someone regarding the
serious consequences of some action; hence "to warn," "to admonish," "to
caution." Once or twice may mean "at least two times" (so TEV "Give at least
two warnings") or "no more than twice" (TNT; so also NRSV "after a first and
second admonition," REB "he should be allowed a second warning"). In
languages that must give the content of the verb "admonish" or "warn," one
may translate "You must warn at least two times those who cause divisions in
the church to stop doing that" or "You must say to those who cause people in
the church to divide into groups, 'Stop doing this!' If you have to say this
on two occasions and they won't stop, don't have . . . ."
For the expression have nothing more to do with him, see 1 Tim 4:7, where a
similar expression occurs; also 2 Tim 2:23. The expression may simply mean
not to have any more dealings with the person so as to make them feel that
they are no longer part of the Christian community, or less likely, to
formally exclude the person from the church (hence excommunication). See
further comments on 1 Tim 1:20.
"knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned."
Treating the factious person in this harsh way is justified by that person's
bad qualities, of which Titus is very much aware. Knowing refers to Titus'
knowledge about such a person. An equivalent expression is "I am sure you
know" or "You must certainly know."
Perverted translates the perfect passive form of a verb that occurs only
here in the New Testament and is used to describe the act of departing from
what is accepted as correct behavior. Some take this perversion to be in the
area of thinking rather than of action (for example, TNT "perverted mind,"
REB "distorted mind," CEV "their minds are twisted"). This means that the
focus here is not on doing what is wrong but on not believing what is right.
This means that perverted here has the same meaning as "reject the truth" in
Titus 1:14. There is, however, no unanimity regarding this, and therefore it
may be best to understand the term in a more general way, to include both
perversion of mind and the resulting corrupt behavior.
For sinful see "persist in sin" in 1 Tim 5:20. This is actually a third
person singular verb, present tense, in the Greek, indicating the habitual
and continuous nature of the act of sinning.
The word for self-condemned occurs only here in the whole New Testament and
refers to being condemned by, or as a result of, one's own actions. This
means that, in the case of the false teachers, there is no need for a formal
trial, since their own actions are more than enough to prove that they are
guilty of sinning against God and therefore deserve to be treated as
outsiders.
How do these three items relate to each other? The Greek can be rendered
literally as "having been perverted, such a one also sins by being
self-condemned." This seems to indicate that the initial act is perversion;
this results in habitual sinfulness, and it is these sinful acts that prove
that a person is guilty before God and therefore deserves to receive the
punishment of being rejected by the church.
An alternative translation model for this verse is:
"I am sure that you know that such a person has a twisted mind. His sins
then show how guilty he is before God."
(from the UBS New Testament Handbook Series)
What The Bible Says About A Godly Attitude Toward Heresy:
1. Try them . . .
1 John 4:1, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether
they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
2. Mark them . . .
Romans 16:17, "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions
and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid
them."
3. Rebuke them . . .
Titus 1:13, "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they
may be sound in the faith; . . ."
4. Have no fellowship . . .
Ephesians 5:11, "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of
darkness, but rather reprove them."
5. Withdraw thyself . . .
2 Thessalonians 3:6, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord
Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh
disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us." (See also
1 Timothy 6:3-5).
6. Turn away from them . . .
2 Timothy 3:5 " . . .Having a form of godliness, but denying the power
thereof: from such turn away."
7. Receive them not . . .
2 John 1:10,11, "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine,
receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that
biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." To our day false
teachings are fostered by misplaced hospitality.
8. Have no company with him . . .
2 Thessalonians 3:14, "And if any man obey not our word by this epistle,
note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed."
9. Reject them . . .
Titus 3:10, "A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition
reject; . . ."
10. Be ye separate . . .
2 Corinthians 6:17, "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate,
saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, . .
."
(G. Archer Weniger, D.D.)
---
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
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| User: "Carl" |
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| Title: Re: Heresies & Heretics (Titus 3:10,11) |
12 Jun 2007 11:04:58 PM |
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"Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> wrote in message
news:g6kc63d0lmgt3i4a5q86ts1ctbhka1bqu7@4ax.com...
Heretics like "Bible Bob" aren't worthy of my time anymore per Titus 3:9,10.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Heresies & Heretics (Titus 3:10,11) |
13 Jun 2007 12:44:50 AM |
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On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:04:58 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> wrote in message
news:g6kc63d0lmgt3i4a5q86ts1ctbhka1bqu7@4ax.com...
Heretics like "Bible Bob" aren't worthy of my time anymore per Titus 3:9,10.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
Carl,
( Or is it Carl the SW Clone now?)
I must be worthy of your time. You just lied about me again.
Bob
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| User: "rogue" |
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| Title: Re: Heresies & Heretics (Titus 3:10,11) |
06 Jun 2007 07:00:14 AM |
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On Jun 6, 10:29 am, Bible Bob <bible...@saintly.com> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 16:22:36 -0400, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
The Word of God must be the final authority for what we Christians believe.
Those who intentionally promote heresies?
Carl,
What the following says is that you do not have the authority to
decide who is a heretick. Jesus Christ through the Apostle Paul
delegated that authority to Titus who was over the assemblies "in
every city". The authority was not given to babes in Christ, the
unlearned, disciples, evangelists, pastors, or teachers, or bishops or
elders - and certainly not to you or the article writers you like to
spam for. Read the context of Titus. Learn who Titus was and what
his position in the church was. All indicators are that he spoke for
God which means that he was a prophet. Hence, Jesus Christ delegated
authority to determine who is a heretick to prophets; not you.
You are cut and pasting verses out of context in an attempt to cause
people to sin and to promote eny and hatred in the body of Christ.
Maybe you ought to learn the word of God before you do more foolish
things that cause people to sin and get hurt for sinning.
You need to stop seeking glory for yourself and start loving people.
Love of self is okay; but self promotion is the sign of a weak man who
does not believe in himself.
If anyone in this group is promoting it is Copycat Carl who
intentionally promoptes heresies by cutting and pasting false
doctrines into posts - doctrines which you do not even understand.
By the way, why did you weasel out of Gregory Greenman's question?
Because then you would have to reveal that Judas was still alive up to
the time of the ascencion and that would screw up some of your false
doctrines. Of course, it is also possible that you were afraid to
answer him because you did not know how to answer his simple question.
You need to stop being a fraud.
Are you the well known internet troll who calls himself
"IKnowHimDoYou?" Rogue seems inclined to think you are and he is
pretty good when it comes to internet stuff. How about a truthful
answer?
Bob
JERRY
I've wondered if he is, the way he's always cutting and pasting his
garbage and seldom responding to the comments made regarding it. The
one main difference is that IKHDY never used to give attribution to
the person from whom he "borrowed" his stuff. "Carl" may have learned
his lesson after getting his peepee slapped a few times by irate
authors whose works were misappropriated, though.
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| User: "Rod" |
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| Title: Re: Heresies & Heretics (Titus 3:10,11) |
06 Jun 2007 10:33:46 AM |
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"rogue" <rogue719@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181131214.450037.87840@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 6, 10:29 am, Bible Bob <bible...@saintly.com> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 16:22:36 -0400, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
The Word of God must be the final authority for what we Christians
believe.
Those who intentionally promote heresies?
Carl,
What the following says is that you do not have the authority to
decide who is a heretick. Jesus Christ through the Apostle Paul
delegated that authority to Titus who was over the assemblies "in
every city". The authority was not given to babes in Christ, the
unlearned, disciples, evangelists, pastors, or teachers, or bishops or
elders - and certainly not to you or the article writers you like to
spam for. Read the context of Titus. Learn who Titus was and what
his position in the church was. All indicators are that he spoke for
God which means that he was a prophet. Hence, Jesus Christ delegated
authority to determine who is a heretick to prophets; not you.
You are cut and pasting verses out of context in an attempt to cause
people to sin and to promote eny and hatred in the body of Christ.
Maybe you ought to learn the word of God before you do more foolish
things that cause people to sin and get hurt for sinning.
You need to stop seeking glory for yourself and start loving people.
Love of self is okay; but self promotion is the sign of a weak man who
does not believe in himself.
If anyone in this group is promoting it is Copycat Carl who
intentionally promoptes heresies by cutting and pasting false
doctrines into posts - doctrines which you do not even understand.
By the way, why did you weasel out of Gregory Greenman's question?
Because then you would have to reveal that Judas was still alive up to
the time of the ascencion and that would screw up some of your false
doctrines. Of course, it is also possible that you were afraid to
answer him because you did not know how to answer his simple question.
You need to stop being a fraud.
Are you the well known internet troll who calls himself
"IKnowHimDoYou?" Rogue seems inclined to think you are and he is
pretty good when it comes to internet stuff. How about a truthful
answer?
Bob
JERRY
I've wondered if he is, the way he's always cutting and pasting his
garbage and seldom responding to the comments made regarding it. The
one main difference is that IKHDY never used to give attribution to
the person from whom he "borrowed" his stuff. "Carl" may have learned
his lesson after getting his peepee slapped a few times by irate
authors whose works were misappropriated, though.
Naw, he hasn't learned anything. He is just busy trying to free his
peepee from his zipper !
Rod
.
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| User: "rogue" |
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| Title: Re: Heresies & Heretics (Titus 3:10,11) |
06 Jun 2007 11:44:27 AM |
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On Jun 6, 7:33 pm, "Rod" <kc0...@att.net> wrote:
"rogue" <rogue...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181131214.450037.87840@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 6, 10:29 am, Bible Bob <bible...@saintly.com> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 16:22:36 -0400, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
The Word of God must be the final authority for what we Christians
believe.
Those who intentionally promote heresies?
Carl,
What the following says is that you do not have the authority to
decide who is a heretick. Jesus Christ through the Apostle Paul
delegated that authority to Titus who was over the assemblies "in
every city". The authority was not given to babes in Christ, the
unlearned, disciples, evangelists, pastors, or teachers, or bishops or
elders - and certainly not to you or the article writers you like to
spam for. Read the context of Titus. Learn who Titus was and what
his position in the church was. All indicators are that he spoke for
God which means that he was a prophet. Hence, Jesus Christ delegated
authority to determine who is a heretick to prophets; not you.
You are cut and pasting verses out of context in an attempt to cause
people to sin and to promote eny and hatred in the body of Christ.
Maybe you ought to learn the word of God before you do more foolish
things that cause people to sin and get hurt for sinning.
You need to stop seeking glory for yourself and start loving people.
Love of self is okay; but self promotion is the sign of a weak man who
does not believe in himself.
If anyone in this group is promoting it is Copycat Carl who
intentionally promoptes heresies by cutting and pasting false
doctrines into posts - doctrines which you do not even understand.
By the way, why did you weasel out of Gregory Greenman's question?
Because then you would have to reveal that Judas was still alive up to
the time of the ascencion and that would screw up some of your false
doctrines. Of course, it is also possible that you were afraid to
answer him because you did not know how to answer his simple question.
You need to stop being a fraud.
Are you the well known internet troll who calls himself
"IKnowHimDoYou?" Rogue seems inclined to think you are and he is
pretty good when it comes to internet stuff. How about a truthful
answer?
Bob
JERRY
I've wondered if he is, the way he's always cutting and pasting his
garbage and seldom responding to the comments made regarding it. The
one main difference is that IKHDY never used to give attribution to
the person from whom he "borrowed" his stuff. "Carl" may have learned
his lesson after getting his peepee slapped a few times by irate
authors whose works were misappropriated, though.
Naw, he hasn't learned anything. He is just busy trying to free his
peepee from his zipper !
Rod
Is Carl the same person as IKnowHimDoYou? Seems a lot like him.
.
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| User: "Rod" |
|
| Title: Re: Heresies & Heretics (Titus 3:10,11) |
06 Jun 2007 07:47:12 PM |
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|
"rogue" <rogue719@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181148267.283887.35650@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 6, 7:33 pm, "Rod" <kc0...@att.net> wrote:
"rogue" <rogue...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181131214.450037.87840@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 6, 10:29 am, Bible Bob <bible...@saintly.com> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 16:22:36 -0400, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
The Word of God must be the final authority for what we Christians
believe.
Those who intentionally promote heresies?
Carl,
What the following says is that you do not have the authority to
decide who is a heretick. Jesus Christ through the Apostle Paul
delegated that authority to Titus who was over the assemblies "in
every city". The authority was not given to babes in Christ, the
unlearned, disciples, evangelists, pastors, or teachers, or bishops or
elders - and certainly not to you or the article writers you like to
spam for. Read the context of Titus. Learn who Titus was and what
his position in the church was. All indicators are that he spoke for
God which means that he was a prophet. Hence, Jesus Christ delegated
authority to determine who is a heretick to prophets; not you.
You are cut and pasting verses out of context in an attempt to cause
people to sin and to promote eny and hatred in the body of Christ.
Maybe you ought to learn the word of God before you do more foolish
things that cause people to sin and get hurt for sinning.
You need to stop seeking glory for yourself and start loving people.
Love of self is okay; but self promotion is the sign of a weak man who
does not believe in himself.
If anyone in this group is promoting it is Copycat Carl who
intentionally promoptes heresies by cutting and pasting false
doctrines into posts - doctrines which you do not even understand.
By the way, why did you weasel out of Gregory Greenman's question?
Because then you would have to reveal that Judas was still alive up to
the time of the ascencion and that would screw up some of your false
doctrines. Of course, it is also possible that you were afraid to
answer him because you did not know how to answer his simple question.
You need to stop being a fraud.
Are you the well known internet troll who calls himself
"IKnowHimDoYou?" Rogue seems inclined to think you are and he is
pretty good when it comes to internet stuff. How about a truthful
answer?
Bob
JERRY
I've wondered if he is, the way he's always cutting and pasting his
garbage and seldom responding to the comments made regarding it. The
one main difference is that IKHDY never used to give attribution to
the person from whom he "borrowed" his stuff. "Carl" may have learned
his lesson after getting his peepee slapped a few times by irate
authors whose works were misappropriated, though.
Naw, he hasn't learned anything. He is just busy trying to free his
peepee from his zipper !
Rod
Is Carl the same person as IKnowHimDoYo | | | | | |