| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Carl" |
| Date: |
06 Jul 2007 11:51:59 PM |
| Object: |
Heresies Of The Word-Faith Movement |
The more famous (or rather infamous) teachers of the word-faith movement
(sometimes referred to as "name it and claim it gospel") have taught a wide
range of heresies over the years and still continue today. Here are some
documented examples.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
Heresies Of The Word-Faith Movement
(from Christian Youth Alliance)
These examples and many, many others can be demonstrated from the materials
produced by the Word-Faith teachers.
The deification of man. In Faith theology man was created as an exact
duplicate of God, including size and shape.
· Kenneth Hagin asserts, "Man.was created on terms of equality with God, and
he could stand in God's presence without any consciousness of
inferiority.God has made us as much like Himself as possible.He made us the
same class of being that He is Himself.Man lived in the realm of God. He
lived on terms equal with God.The believer is called Christ.That's who we
are; we're Christ!" (Kenneth M. Hagin, Zoe: The God-Kind of Life (Tulsa, OK:
Kenneth Hagin Ministries, Inc., 1989), 35-36, 41.
· Kenneth Copeland declares that "God's reason for creating Adam was His
desire to reproduce Himself.He was not a little like God. He was not almost
like God. He was not subordinate to God even." (Kenneth Copeland, Following
the Faith of Abraham I (Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1989),
tape #01-3001, side 1.
· Televangelist John Avanzini claims that the Spirit of God "declared in the
earth today what the eternal purpose of God has been through the ages.that
He is duplicating Himself on earth." (John Avanzini with Morris Cerullo, The
Endtime Manifestation of the Sons of God, (San Diego: Morris Cerullo World
Evangelism, n.d.), audiotape 1, side 2.
· Morris Cerullo bellows, "Did you know that from the beginning of time the
whole purpose of God was to reproduce Himself?.Who are you? Come on, who are
you? Come on, say it: 'Sons of God!' Come on, say it! And what does work
inside us, brother, is that manifestation of the expression of all that God
is and all that God has. And when we stand up here, brother, you're not
looking at Morris Cerullo; you're looking at God. You're looking at Jesus."
(Morris Cerullo, The Endtime Manifestation of the Sons of God, (San Diego:
Morris Cerullo World Evangelism, n.d.), audiotape 1, sides1 & 2.
The Faith teachings have now become so blasphemous and bizarre that even
cultists are denying them. For example, Mormon scholar and author Stephen E.
Robinson, referring to the Faith teachers, says: "Now, in fact, the
Latter-day Saints would not agree with the doctrine of deification as
understood by most of these evangelists, for in the LDS view we receive the
full divine inheritance only through the atonement of Christ and only after
a glorious resurrection." (Stephen E. Robinson, Are Mormons Christians?
(Salt Lake City, UT: Bookcraft, 1991), 63.
· When Kenneth Copeland proclaims, "You don't have a god in you, you are
one," and Benny Hinn pronounces, "I am a 'little messiah' walking on earth,"
we can only conclude that they are teaching rank heresy. (Kenneth Copeland,
The Force of Love (Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1987),
audiotape #02-0028, side 1.) and (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-Thon program on TBN
(November 6, 1990).
Faith teachers are polytheists.
· TBN president Paul Crouch put it, "I am a little god! Critics, be gone!"
(Paul Crouch, Praise the Lord program on TBN (July 7, 1986).
· According to Benny Hinn, "Adam was a super being when God created him. I
don't know whether people know this, but he was the first Superman that
really ever lived. First of all, the Scriptures declare clearly that he had
dominion over the fowls of the air, the fish of the sea-which menas he used
to fly. Of course, how can he have dominion over the birds and not be able
to do what they do? The word "dominion" in the Hebrew clearly declares that
if you have dominion over a subject, that you do everything that subject
does. In other words, that subject, if it does someting you cannot do, you
don't have dominion over it. I'll prove it further. Adam not only flew, he
flew to space. He was-with one thought he would be on the moon." (Benny
Hinn, Praise the Lord program on TBN (December 26, 1991).
The demotion of God. The Faith movement not only deifies man but also
demotes God to the beck and call of His creation.
· Kenneth Copeland claims that God is "A being that is very uncanny the way
He's very much like you and me. A being that stands somewhere around 6'-2",
6'-3", that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred
pounds, little better, [and] has a [hand] span of nine inches across."
(Kenneth Copeland, Spirit, Soul and Body I (Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland
Ministries, 1985), audiotape #01-0601, side 1.
· Jerry Savelle elaborates on Copeland's teachings when he says: "He is
measured out heaven with a nine-inch span.The distance between my thumb and
my finger is not quite nine inches. So, I know He's bigger than me, thank
God. Amen? But He's not some great, big, old thing that couldn't come
through the door there and, you know, when He sat down, would fill every
seat in the house. I don't serve the Glob." (Jerry Savelle, Framing Your
World with the Word of God, Part 2 (Fort Worth, TX: Jerry Savelle
Evangelistic Association, Inc., n.d.), audiotape #SS-36, side 1.
· Morris Cerullo says, "As I lay there on the floor in this condition, my
spirit was taken out of my body and the next thing I knew, I was in the
heavens.Suddenly, in front of this tremendous multitude of people, the glory
of God appeared. The Form that I saw was about the height of a man six feet
tall, maybe a little taller, and twice as broad as a human body with no
distinguishing features such as eyes, nose, or mouth." (Morris Cerullo, The
Miracle Book (San Diego, CA: Cerullo Word Evangelism, Inc., 1984), x-xi.
· Says Benny Hinn, "I could almost visibly see the Lord, and I cold tell you
what He was wearing." Jan Crouch, giddy about Hinn's statement, asks, "Was
that the Holy Spirit?" Acknowledging that he may get in trouble, Hinn
resolutely answers "yes." (Benny Hinn and Jan Crouch, Praise the Lord
program on TBN (October 3, 1991).
· Hinn made the following statement, "Man, I feel revelation knowledge
already coming on me here. Life your hands. Something new is going to happen
here today. I felt it just as I waled down here. Holy Spirit, take over in
the name of Jesus.God the Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person; and He
is a triune being by Himself separate from the Son and the Holy Ghost. Say,
what did you say? Hear it, hear it, hear it. See, God the Father is a
person, God the Son is aperson, God the Holy Ghost is a person. But each one
of them is a triune being by Himself. If I can shock you-and maybe I
should-there's nine of them. Huh, what did you say? Let me explain: God the
Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person with his own personal spirit, with
his own personal soul, and his own personal spirit-body. You say, Huh, I
never heard that. Well you think you're in this church to hear things you've
heard for the last 50 years?" (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn program on TBN
(October 3, 1991).
· Two years after his initial "revelation," Hinn once again voiced virtually
the same statement. As he puts it, "God the Father, God the Son, and God the
Holy Ghost-three separate individuals, one in essence, one in work-and, may
I add, each one of them possess His own spirit-body. You don't like it?"
(Benny Hinn, Praise the Lord program on TBN (October 23, 1992).
· Kenneth Copeland said, "I was shocked when I found out who the biggest
failure in the Bible actually is.The biggest one in the whole Bible is
God.Now, the reason you don't think of God as a failure is He never said He's
a failure. And you're not a failure till you say you're one." (Kenneth
Copeland, Praise-a-Thon program on TBN (April 1988). He also said, "Adam
committed high treason; and at that point, all the dominion and authority
God had given to him was handed over to Satan. Suddenly, God was on the
outside looking in.After Adam's fall, God found Himself in a peculiar
position.God needed an avenue back into the earth.God laid out His
proposition and Abram accepted it. It gave God access to the earth and gave
man access to God..Technically, if God ever broke the Covenant, He would
have to destroy Himself." (Kenneth Copeland, Our Covenant with God (Fort
Worth, TX: KCP Publications, 1987), 8-11 passim.
The deification of Satan. Satan is deified as the God this world and is
positioned with so much power that he could manage to "turn the light off in
God."
· Benny Hinn said, "God came from heaven, became a man, made man into little
gods, went back to heaven as a man. He faces the Father as a man. I face
devils as the son of God..Quit your nonsense! What else are you? If you say,
I am, you're saying I'm a part of Him, right? Is he God? Are you His
offspring? Are you His children? You can't be human! You can't! You can't!
God didn't give birth to flesh.You said, "Well, that's heresy." No, that's
your crazy brain saying that." (Benny Hinn, Our Position in Christ #2-The
Word Made Flesh (Orlando: Orlando Christian Center, 1991), videotape #255.
· Kenneth Copeland is willing to give ownership of the earth to Satan: "God's
on the outside looking in. He doesn't have any legal entree into the earth.
The thing don't belong to Him. You see how sassy the Devil was in the
presence of God in the book of Job? God said, Where have you been? Wasn't
any of God's business. He [Satan] didn't even have to answer if he didn't
want to ..God didn't argue with him a bit! You see, this is the position
that God's been in.Might say, 'Well, if God's running things He's doing a
lousy job of it." He hadn't been running 'em, except when He's just got, you
know, a little bit of a chance." (Kenneth Copeland, Image of God in You III
(Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1989), audiotape #01-1403,
side 1.
· Copeland goes on to say, "The Bible says that God gave this earth to the
sons of men.and when [Adam] turned and gave that dominion to Satan, look
where it left God. If left Him on the outside looking in.He had no legal
right to do anything about it, did He?.He had injected Himself illegally
into the earth-what Satan had intended for Him to do was to fall for it-pull
off an illegal act and turn the light off in God, and subordinate God to
himself.He intended to get God into such a trap that He couldn't get out."
(Kenneth Copeland, What Happened from the Cross to the Throne (Fort Worth,
TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1990), audiotape #02-0017.
The demotion of Christ. The Faith movement compromises the deity of the Lord
Jesus Christ.
· Consider this statement by Kenneth Copeland: "[Adam] was the copy, looked
just like [God]. If you stood Adam upside God, they look just exactly alike.
If yo stood Jesus and Adam side-by-side, they would look and sound exactly
alike." (Kenneth Copeland, Authority of the Believer IV (Fort Worth, TX:
Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1987), audiotape #01-0304, side 1.
· Jesus Christ supposedly told Copeland in the following prophecy: "Don't be
disturbed when people put you down and speak harshly and roughly of you.
They spoke that way of Me, should they not speak that way of you? The more
you get to be like Me, the more they're going to think that way of you. They
crucified Me for claiming that I was God. But I didn't claim I was God; I
just claimed I walked with Him and that He was in Me. Hallelujah." (Kenneth
Copeland, Take Time to Pray, Believer's Voice of Victory 15, 2 (February
1987): 9.
· Copeland asserts, "What [why] does God have to pay the price for this
thing? He has to have a man that is like that first one. It's got to be a
man. He's got to be all man. He cannot be a God and come storming in here
will attributes and dignities that are not common to man. He can't do that.
It's not legal." (Kenneth Copeland, What Happened from the Cross to the
Throne (Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1990), audiotape
#02-0017.
· Benny Hinn writes, "And let me add this: Had the Holy Spirit not been with
Jesus, He would have sinned. That's right, it was the Holy Spirit that was
the power that kept Him pure. He was not only sent from heaven, but He was
called the Son of Man-and as such He was capable of sinning.Without the Holy
Ghost, Jesus would have never have made it.Can you imagine Christ headed for
the grave, knowing He would remain there forever, if the Holy Ghost would
change His mind about raising Him from the dead?" (Benny Hinn, Good Morning,
Holy Spirit (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1990), 135-36.
· Copeland promises, "Here's where we're gonna depart from ordinary church:
Now, you see, God is injecting His Word into the earth to produce this
Jesus-these faith-filled words that framed the image that's in Him.He can't
just walk onto the earth and say, "Let it be!" because He doesn't have the
right. He had to sneak it in here around the god of this world that was
blockin' every way that he possibly could." (Kenneth Copeland, The Image of
God in You III (Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1989),
audiotape #01-1403, side 2. He continues by adding, "God was making promises
to Jesus, and Jesus wasn't even there. But, you see, God deals with things
that are not yet as though they already were. That's the way He gets them to
come to pass." (Kenneth Copeland, What Happened from the Cross to the Throne
(Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1990), audiotape #02-0017.
Atonement Atrocities:
Recreation on the cross. On the cross, Jesus was recreated from divine to
demonic, taking on the very nature of Satan.
· Benny Hinn claimed that the Holy Ghost personally told him: "Ladies and
gentlemen, the serpent is a symbol of Satan. Jesus Christ knew the only way
He would stop Satan is by becoming one in nature with him. You say, 'What
did you say? What blasphemy is this?' No, you hear this! He did not take my
sin; He became my sin. Sin is the nature of hell. Sin is what made Satan.It
was sin that made Satan. Jesus said, "I'll be sin! I'll go to the lowest
place! I'll go to the origin of it! I won't just take part in it, I'll be
the totality of it!" When Jesus became sin, sir, He took it from A to Z and
said, "No more!" Think about this: He became flesh, that flesh might become
like Him. He became death, so dying man can live. He became sin, so sinners
can be righteous in Him. He became one with the nature of Satan, so all
those who had the nature of Satan can partake of the nature of God." (Benny
Hinn, Benny Hinn program on TBN (December 15, 1990).
· Kenneth Hagin also claims that Jesus Christ took on the nature of Satan,
"[s]piritual death means something more than separation from God. Spiritual
death also means having Satan's nature.Jesus tasted death-spiritual
death-for every man." (Kenneth E. Hagin, The Name of Jesus (Tulsa, OK:
Kenneth Hagin Ministries, 1981), 31.
· Fredrick Price alleges that Jesus Christ was re-created spiritually-not on
the cross, but rather in the Garden of Gethsemane: "Somewhere between the
time He [Jesus] was nailed to the cross and when He was in the Garden of
Gethsemane-somewhere in there-He died spiritually. Personally, I believe it
was while He was in the garden." Price, who was reared in a Jehovah's
Witness environment mimics the Mormon Apostle James E. Talmage, who taught
precisely the same thing in his book Jesus the Christ. (Frederick K. C.
Price, Identification #3 (Inglewood, CA: Ever Increasing Faith Ministries,
1980), tape #FP545, side 1.
· Copeland says that Jesus became a sign of Satan when He was hanging on the
cross: "The righteousness of God was made to be sin. He accepted the sin
nature of Satan in His own spirit. And at the moment that He did so, He
cried, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken Me?" You don't know what
happened at the cross. Why do you think Moses, upon instruction of God,
raised the serpent upon that pole instead of a lamb? That used to bug me. I
said, "Why in the world would you want to put a snake up there-the sign of
Satan? Why didn't you put a lamb on that pole?" And the Lord said, "Because
it was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross." He said, "I accepted,
in My own spirit, spiritual death; and the light was turned off." (Kenneth
Copeland, What Happened from the Cross to the Throne (Fort Worth, TX:
Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1990), audiotape #02-0017, side 2.
Redemption in hell. In the words of one Faith teacher, "Satan conquered
Jesus upon the Cross." Proponents of Faith theology say that Jesus endured
three days and nights of unimaginable abuse at the hands of Satan and his
hordes of demons in hell. This was God's payment to Satan so that He could
get back into a universe from which He had been banished.
· According to Frederick Price: "Do you think that the punishment for our
sin was to die on a cross? If that were the case, the two thieves could have
paid your price. No, the punishment was to go into hell itself and to serve
time in hell separated from God.Satan and all the demons of hell thought
that they had Him bound and they threw a net over Jesus and dragged Him down
to the very pit of hell itself to serve our sentence." (Frederick K.C.
Price, Ever Increasing Faith Messanger (June 1980), 7.
· Kenneth Hagin's version: "He [Jesus] tasted spiritual death for every man.
And His spirit and inner man went to hell in my place. Can't you see that?
Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's tasted death for every man.
He's talking about tasting spiritual death." (Kenneth E. Hagin, How Jesus
Obtained His Name (Tulsa, OK: Kenneth Hagin Ministries, n.d.), tape #44H01,
side 1.
· Kenneth Copeland's version: "When Jesus cried, 'It is finished!' He was
not speaking of the plan of redemption. There were still three days and
nights to go through before He went to the throne.Jesus' death on the cross
was only the beginning of the complete work of redemption." (Kenneth
Copeland, Jesus-Our Lord of Glory, Believer's Voice of Victory 10, 4 (April
1982):3.
· Jan Crouch, the wife of TBN president Paul Crouch, approvingly recited the
following words from Paul Billheimer's book during a live communion service
aired on TBN: "Because He was "made sin," impregnated with sin, and became
the very essence of sin, on the cross He was banished from God's presence as
a loathsome thing. He and sin were made synonymous.[I]t was not sufficient
for Christ to offer up only His physical life on the cross. His pure human
spirit had not "descend" into hell.His spirit must not only descend into
hell, but into the lowest hell.The Father turned Him over, not only to the
agony and death of Calvary, but to the satanic torturers of His pure spirit
as part of the just dessert of the sin of all the race. As long as Christ
was "the essence of sin" he was at Satan's mercy in that place of
torment.While Christ identified with sin, Satan and the hosts of hell ruled
over Him as over any lost sinner. During that seemingly endless age in the
nether abyss of death, Satan did with Him as he would, and all hell was "in
carnival." (Paul Billheimer, Destined for the Throne, special edition for
TBN (Fort Washington, PA: Christian Literature Crusade, 1988 [orig. 1975]),
83-84. Quoted by Jan Crouch during the "Praise the Lord" program TBN (August
20, 1987).
Let take a moment to retrace our steps. We began this section with Jesus
hanging on a cross, where, according to Faith theology, He was recreated
from a divine to a demonic being. At this point the Trinity was destroyed
and the deity of Christ utterly demolished. According to the Faith teachers,
the Lord Jesus' passion on the cross proved insufficient to redeem
humankind, an so He had to be trapped and hauled down to the very pit of
hell by Satan. It is there, while Jesus is tortured and tormented by a
smiling Satan and a host of cackling demons, that we pick up the story.
Jesus' Rebirth in hell.
· Copeland explains that, "[I]n hell He [Jesus] suffered for you and for me.
The Bible says hell was made for Satan and his angles. It was not made for
men. Satan was holding the Son of God there illegally.The trap was set for
Satan and Jesus was the bait." (Kenneth Copeland, Walking in the Realm of
the Miraculous (Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1979), 77.
Satan blew it on a technicality, according to Faith theology, because Satan
had dragged Jesus into hell illegally. As Copeland puts it, "The Devil
forgot to take into consideration that Jesus hadn't sinned Himself but,
rather, had merely become sin as a result of the sin of others." (Kenneth
Copeland, What Happened from the Cross to the Throne (Fort Worth, TX:
Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1990), audiotape #02-0017, side 2. Satan and
every demon in hell tortured Christ's allegedly "emaciated, poured out,
little, wormy spirit" without legal right. (Kenneth Copeland, Believer's
Voice of Victory program (April 21, 1991). And this was exactly the opening
God had been looking for. Seizing the moment, He spoke His faith-filled
words into the bowels of the earth, and suddenly-"[t]hat Word of the living
God went down into that pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus
with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to
fill out and come back to life. He began to look like something the devil
had never seen before. He was literally being reborn before the devil's very
eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles.Jesus was born again-the
first-born from the dead." (Kenneth Copeland, The Price of it All, Believer's
Voice of Victory 19, 9 (September 1991):4-6. Kenneth Copeland called upon
revelation knowledge when he said: "The Spirit of God spoke to me and He
said, 'Son, realize this. Now follow me in this and don't let your tradition
trip you up.' He said, 'Think this way-a twice-born man whipped Satan in his
own domain.' And I threw my Bible down.like that. I said, 'What?' He said,
'A born-again man defeated Satan, the firstborn of many brethren defeated
him.' He said, 'You are the very image, the very copy of that one.' I said,
'Well now you don't mean, you couldn't dare mean, that I could have done the
same thing?' He said, 'Oh yeah, if you'd had the knowledge of the Word of
God that He did, you could've done the same thing, 'cause you're a reborn
man too." (Kenneth Copeland, Substitution and Identification (Kenneth
Copeland Ministries, 1989), tape #00-0202, side 2.
· Benny Hinn, too, received some "revelation knowledge" on the "rebirth" of
Christ in hell: "My, you know, whoosh! The Holy Ghost is just showing me
some stuff. I'm getting dizzy! I'm telling you the truth-it's, it's just
heavy right now on me.He's [referring to Jesus] in the underworld now. God
isn't there, the Holy Ghost isn't there, and the Bible says He was begotten.
Do you know what the word begotten means? It means reborn. Do you want
another shocker? Have you been begotten? So was He. Don't let anyone deceive
you. Jesus was reborn. You say, 'What are you talking about?'.He was reborn.
He had to be reborn.If He was not reborn, I could not be reborn, I would
never be reborn. How can I face Jesus and say, "Jesus, You went through
everything I've gone through, except the new birth?" (Benny Hinn, Our
Position 'In Christ,' Part 1 (Orlando, FL: Orlando Christian Center, 1991),
videotape #TV-254.
· Jan Crouch read Paul Billheimer's commentary on TBN stating, "[I]n order
to be made alive unto God and restored to fellowship with His Father, He
[Jesus] had to be reborn-for He had become the very essence of sin. Since
sin had totally alienated Him from the Father, the only way He could be
restored to fellowship with the Father was through a new birth to new life."
(Paul Billheimer, Destined for the Throne, special edition for TBN (Fort
Washington, PA: Christian Literature Crusade, 1988 [orig. 1975]), 83-84.
Quoted by Jan Crouch during the "Praise the Lord" program TBN (August 20,
1987).
Reincarnation. Jesus was reincarnated from demonic to divine and then
emerged from hell as an incarnation of God. When you are born again, you too
are reincarnated from demonic to divine, becoming "as much an incarnation as
was Jesus of Nazareth."
According to Faith Teachers, Jesus regained His divinity the moment He was
reborn in hell. Commenting on Hinn's remarks about Jesus defeating Satan in
the underworld,
· Paul Crouch adds, "That's when His [Jesus'] divinity returned." (Paul
Crouch, Praise-a-Thon program on TBN (November 6, 1990).
· Hagin states it, "Every man who has been born again is an incarnation and
Christianity is a miracle. The believer is as much an incarnation as was
Jesus of Nazareth." (Kenneth E. Hagin, The Incarnation, The Word of Faith
13, 12 (December 1980):14.
The concept of incarnation makes sense only if a person existed prior to
having a physical body. And while the Bible clearly declares Christ to be
preexistent, nowhere in Scripture do we find the concept of human
preexistence. In fact, human preexistence remains a concept belonging to
such pseudo-Christian systems such as Mormonism.
.
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| User: "Carl" |
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| Title: Re: Heresies Of The Word-Faith Movement |
07 Jul 2007 08:13:12 PM |
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"Jim" <Jim@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:8qvv83l26go5juch8rk09k1gc31thag6aq@4ax.com...
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 23:12:53 -0700, "BR Collins" wrote:
On Jul 6, 10:51?pm, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
The more famous (or rather infamous) teachers of the word-faith
Ah, reprobate Carl, do you know that YOU are a filthy false christian
scumbag.
First - what makes you think you're "reverend"? Second - how do you know
you're not a reprobate?
It's doubtful he is a legitimate "Reverend" according to secular rule and
law however it is a fact that he is not qualified to be a "Reverend" by
Biblical guidelines. Mr. Collins' words and actions show that he has not the
fruit of the spirit but a darkened heart, one full of bitterness and hatred
not touched by the Holy Spirit. I will keep him in my prayers and hope that
Mr. Collins will allow the Holy Spirit into his heart soon.
Jesus clearly taught:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy
neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love
your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them
that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your
Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on
the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and
on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what
reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if
ye salute your bretheren only, what do ye more than others?
do not even the publicans also?" " (Matthew 5:43-47)
I want to point out two important items being taught here. First of all,
Jesus instructs us to not only love our brethren, but also those who are
_not_ our brethren. As evidenced by Mr. Collins' posts he does not exhibit a
loving attitude towards those who he considers not to be brethren? Secondly
this teaches that it is quite easy for one to love one's brethren, yet it is
much more difficult to love those who are not one's brethren. This is one
area where many of us are quite weak and is one reason why we need to pray
for God's guidance.
Unfortunately some have tried to argue that this love applies to brethren
only. This is a false teaching and is refuted with Jesus's own words as
found in Matthew 5:43-47 (and elsewhere), but Paul clearly clarified whom we
should love in a Christian manner when he wrote:
"And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one
toward another, and toward _ALL_ men, even as we do toward
you:" (1 Thessalonians 3:12) [Emphasis mine -- CM]
Please notice that Paul teaches that the Lord make you abound in love not
only toward one another {brethren}, but also to _all_ men {everyone else}.
Paul also makes it clear that Christians are to "give none offense" in
regards to Christians _and_ non-Christians.
"Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the
Gentiles, nor to the church of God:" (1 Corinthians 10:32)
Do you know of any who are giving offense? If so, please pray for them
regardless of how they may given offenses against you. If you are giving
offense, ask those whom you've transgressed for their forgiveness. This may
be hard, but with God's help, you will be able to do so.
Consider the words and deeds of Mr. Collins on various Usenet newsgroups.
Are his insults and personal attacks indicative of someone giving offense?
Of course! Collins is undertaken the horrendous task of filling the void
left when Steve Winter left Usenet to form his own little tightly-controlled
chat site.
What does the Holy Scriptures say about those who refuse to stop using
abusive and vile words against others like Mr. Collins is wont to do?
"If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not
his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion
is vain." (James 1:26)
This clearly teaches that those who claim to be Christian, yet cannot stop
using abusive language are deceiving their own hearts and therefore their
religion is in vain.
Jesus instead taught love, not abuse:
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one
another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye
have love one to another." (John 13:34,35)
"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have
loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man
lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:12,13)
"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all
thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second
is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself. There is none other commandment greater than
these." (Mark 12:30,31)
Now, the most appropriate and logical question that arises from the three
sets of verses cited above is "What is a neighbor?" Good question. One which
Jesus answers in a parable.
"But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And
who is my neighbour? And Jesus answering said, A certain man
went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves,
which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and
departed, leaving him half dead. And by chance there came
down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he
passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he
was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on
the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed,
came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on
him, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in
oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him
to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he
departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host,
and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou
spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Which
now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him
that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed
mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou
likewise." (Luke 10:29-37)
Did the Samaritan inquire whether this man in need believed in God? No. Did
the Samaritan inquire whether this man was brethren? No. Why? Because it
didn't matter. We, as Christians, are to show compassion and love to _ALL_
and help them with kindness and gentleness regardless of their background.
Also, please note that Jesus calls loving thy neighbor as thyself a
commandment. Jesus also makes it quite clear what would happen to those who
broke such a commandment, but still try to teach God's Word:
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least
commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the
least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and
teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of
heaven." (Matthew 5:19)
"He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His
commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
(1 John 2:4)
This also does not bode well for some and it is yet another point that I
pray about and ask others to pray about as well.
If I have committed transgressions against others in the past, I have asked
for forgiveness. If someone has committed transgressions against me, I have
unconditionally forgiven them as well. Christians are clearly instructed to
be kind, not rude; patient, not short-tempered; humble, not proud; and also
forgiving.
"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one
another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
(Ephesians 4:32)
"Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved,
bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness,
longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one
another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as
Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these
things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness."
(Colossians 3:12-14)
"And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."
(Matthew 6:12)
"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly
Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men
their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your
trespasses." (Matthew 6:14,15)
Some may ask "why forgive someone who sins against me time and time again?"
That's a good question which Jesus Christ answered:
"Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my
brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven
times: but, Until seventy times seven. Therefore is the
kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would
take account of his servants. And when he had begun to
reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten
thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his
lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children,
and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant
therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have
patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of
that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and
forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and
found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred
pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat,
saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell
down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience
with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went
and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So
when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very
sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him,
O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because
thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had
compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors,
till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise
shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your
hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."
(Matthew 18:21-35)
How are we suppose to know who is good and who isn't? Well the Holy
Scriptures also instruct Christians on how to tell the difference:
"Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a
corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit." (Matthew 7:17)
"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth
forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil
treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for
of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh."
(Luke 6:45)
It is shown that one is known by their "fruit." What is the Bible referring
to in regards to "fruit"? The scriptures explain what the fruit of the Holy
Spirit are:
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace,
longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness,
temperance: against such there is no law."
(Galatians 5:22-23)
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show love? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show joy? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show peace? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show longsuffering? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show gentleness? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show goodness? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show faith? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show meekness? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show temperance? No.
Some are quite lacking in many of those aspects. This is another reason why
we should pray for those and ask others to pray for them as well.
Furthermore, we should be vigilant in our own behavior so, with God's grace,
we continue to exhibit the fruit of the Spirit.
Another area in which some show unChristian behavior is anger. Those who
quickly spew forth angry words towards others are also addressed in the Holy
Scriptures:
"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to
hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man
worketh not the righteousness of God." (James 1:19,20)
Even without those verses, it is readily apparent that anger and vile words
drive away many Christians as well as those wandering souls that could have
used patient, loving, Christian guidance. Therefore angry and vile words
clearly do not achieve the righteousness of God. This saddens me greatly as
well and is something to pray over.
Another are of abusive behavior is to speak evil of others. Speaking evil
about others is something which Paul clearly instructs Christians not to do.
"To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle,
shewing all meekness unto all men." (Titus 3:2)
An impatience, ungentle nature and vile words also go against scripture in
these verses:
"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife,
vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality,
apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of
filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;"
(1 Timothy 3:2-3)
"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle
unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing
those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give
them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;"
(2 Timothy 2:24,25)
As evidenced by Mr. Collins' own posts, he does not qualify to be a leader
in any legitimate church setting until he at least repents of his ungodly
words and deeds.
One other thing. Why should I or any Christian bother with those who are
disruptive, abusive, angry, etc.? Well, once again I turn to scripture:
"Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly,
comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient
toward all men. See that none render evil for evil unto any
man; but ever follow that which is good, both among
yourselves, and to all men." (1 Thessalonians 5:14-15)
Here I am encouraged to admonish those who are unruly yet still be patient
to all.
However, if a person still refuses to listen and turns his unChristian wrath
on you, the Holy Scriptures tell you what you have to do:
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause
divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye
have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve
not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good
words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."
(Romans 16:17,18)
In short, if they continue to reject what Jesus instructs, what Paul
clarifies and what the Holy Scriptures teach by continuing in their abusive
ways, then you are required to avoid them and their teachings as long as
they continue.
Amazingly, some people proclaiming to be Christian actually attempt to
justify their abusiveness with scripture, however the Holy Scriptures teach
the following:
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny
him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good
work reprobate." (Titus 1:16)
Funny how Mr. Collins, like Steve Winter, calls others "reprobate" when his
own words and deeds on Usenet expose him as a reprobate according to
scripture.
Do as the Bereans did and compare the actions and words of those who profess
to be Christian in order to see if they are the words and actions supported
or condemned by the Bible.
You do not have to turn your back on them forever, but instead patiently and
lovingly give them every opportunity to repent of their transgressions and
allow the grace of God to transform them into a brother or sister in Christ
that they could become.
"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and
tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall
hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother." (Matthew 18:15)
You can't force anyone to do any of this. All one can do is follow what God
has said to do in the scriptures, pray for others and then leave it in His
hands. I ask you to read what I have written and pray for guidance in
regards to it.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Heresies Of The Word-Faith Movement |
08 Jul 2007 10:45:13 AM |
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On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 21:13:12 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:
"Jim" <Jim@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:8qvv83l26go5juch8rk09k1gc31thag6aq@4ax.com...
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 23:12:53 -0700, "BR Collins" wrote:
On Jul 6, 10:51?pm, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
The more famous (or rather infamous) teachers of the word-faith
Ah, reprobate Carl, do you know that YOU are a filthy false christian
scumbag.
First - what makes you think you're "reverend"? Second - how do you know
you're not a reprobate?
It's doubtful he is a legitimate "Reverend" according to secular rule and
law however it is a fact that he is not qualified to be a "Reverend" by
Biblical guidelines. Mr. Collins' words and actions show that he has not the
fruit of the spirit but a darkened heart, one full of bitterness and hatred
not touched by the Holy Spirit. I will keep him in my prayers and hope that
Mr. Collins will allow the Holy Spirit into his heart soon.
"It is doubtful" means you don't know for sure. Which means that you
are willing to cast stones without knowing what is true. Your
standard is secular rule and law; not the word of God which accounts
for your unrighteous behaviuor and the false doctrines you preach to
justify it. Your words and actions show that you have not the fruit
of the spirit but a drakended heart, one full of bitterness (and
arrogant self righteousness) and hatred not touched by the Holy Spirit
(you are using holsy psirit incorrectly). You will not keep him in
your prayers; that is just one of the lies you tell in your posts to
impress everyone with how religious you are.
Jesus clearly taught:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy
neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love
your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them
that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your
Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on
the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and
on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what
reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if
ye salute your bretheren only, what do ye more than others?
do not even the publicans also?" " (Matthew 5:43-47)
The verses you quoted are quoted wrong. Any "real teacher" of the
word of God knows that the words "Bless them that curse you, do good
to them that hate you" and the words "Despitefully use you and" are
not in the Greek text. I notice that you also conveniently left out
verse 48 because it convicts you of unrigbteousness. Hee is what the
verses say when translated correctly:
Mat 5:43-48 KJV
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy
neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, and pray for them which
persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for
he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth
rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not
even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others?
do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
Jesus was speaking to His disciples which were those who were
followers of Him and his teachings. Your behavior in your posts
indicates that you are not a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ. You
salute your brethren from certain sects only; and not the brethren
from all the sects who are members of the one body of Christ.
I want to point out two important items being taught here. First of all,
Jesus instructs us to not only love our brethren, but also those who are
_not_ our brethren. As evidenced by Mr. Collins' posts he does not exhibit a
loving attitude towards those who he considers not to be brethren? Secondly
this teaches that it is quite easy for one to love one's brethren, yet it is
much more difficult to love those who are not one's brethren. This is one
area where many of us are quite weak and is one reason why we need to pray
for God's guidance.
You do not exhibit a loving attitude towards those he considers not to
be brethren. You are charging Mr Collins with doing whjat you do and
that is the mark of a hypocrite.
Unfortunately some have tried to argue that this love applies to brethren
only. This is a false teaching and is refuted with Jesus's own words as
found in Matthew 5:43-47 (and elsewhere), but Paul clearly clarified whom we
should love in a Christian manner when he wrote:
"And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one
toward another, and toward _ALL_ men, even as we do toward
you:" (1 Thessalonians 3:12) [Emphasis mine -- CM]
You sure did add "YOUR" emphasis. The word "men" is not even in the
text; but an ellipsis supplied by the editors. The Greek reads
"toward all" and is qualified by "even as we do toward you" so that
the standard is love manifested after the same manner as love is
manifested by Paul which is "agapao," the love of God; not "phileo"
the love of man. The love of God is manifested in the fruit of the
spirit which is what you do not manifest towards others. What you
manifet towards others is works of the flesh.
Please notice that Paul teaches that the Lord make you abound in love not
only toward one another {brethren}, but also to _all_ men {everyone else}.
Paul also makes it clear that Christians are to "give none offense" in
regards to Christians _and_ non-Christians.
That is not what the verse says. Read the verse you quoted. You are
using words out of their Biblical sense. A Christian is a disciple of
Jesus Christ; not an unlearned neophyte. The three classes of people
are Jews, Gentiles, and church of God and the latter includes both
disciples and babes (unlearned) in Christ. So, God through Christ
through Paul said give none offense, to those who are not saved and
those who are saved; not those who are not saved and disciples. Yoiu
water down the word of God by your wrong dividing of the word of God.
"Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the
Gentiles, nor to the church of God:" (1 Corinthians 10:32)
Do you know of any who are giving offense? If so, please pray for them
regardless of how they may given offenses against you. If you are giving
offense, ask those whom you've transgressed for their forgiveness. This may
be hard, but with God's help, you will be able to do so.
Follow your own advice.
Consider the words and deeds of Mr. Collins on various Usenet newsgroups.
Are his insults and personal attacks indicative of someone giving offense?
Of course! Collins is undertaken the horrendous task of filling the void
left when Steve Winter left Usenet to form his own little tightly-controlled
chat site.
You do the same thing, Carl. You promote hatred against the brethren
in your antidenominational posts.
What does the Holy Scriptures say about those who refuse to stop using
abusive and vile words against others like Mr. Collins is wont to do?
"If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not
his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion
is vain." (James 1:26)
That describes you; what are you going to do about it?
This clearly teaches that those who claim to be Christian, yet cannot stop
using abusive language are deceiving their own hearts and therefore their
religion is in vain.
That describes you; what are you going to do about it?
Jesus instead taught love, not abuse:
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one
another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye
have love one to another." (John 13:34,35)
Your hatred for the brethren proves you are not a disciple; what are
you going to do about it?
"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have
loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man
lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:12,13)
Your hatred for the brethren proves your life is not in harmony with
that verse; what are you going to do about it?
"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all
thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second
is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself. There is none other commandment greater than
these." (Mark 12:30,31)
You do neither the first or the second as you are disobedient to God
and hate your brethren; what are you going to do about it.
Now, the most appropriate and logical question that arises from the three
sets of verses cited above is "What is a neighbor?" Good question. One which
Jesus answers in a parable.
"But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And
who is my neighbour? And Jesus answering said, A certain man
went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves,
which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and
departed, leaving him half dead. And by chance there came
down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he
passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he
was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on
the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed,
came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on
him, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in
oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him
to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he
departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host,
and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou
spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Which
now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him
that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed
mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou
likewise." (Luke 10:29-37)
Did the Samaritan inquire whether this man in need believed in God? No. Did
the Samaritan inquire whether this man was brethren? No. Why? Because it
didn't matter. We, as Christians, are to show compassion and love to _ALL_
and help them with kindness and gentleness regardless of their background.
Maybe you should start doing it.
Also, please note that Jesus calls loving thy neighbor as thyself a
commandment. Jesus also makes it quite clear what would happen to those who
broke such a commandment, but still try to teach God's Word:
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least
commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the
least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and
teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of
heaven." (Matthew 5:19)
"He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His
commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
(1 John 2:4)
Maybe you shoudl start obeying the commandments you preach.
This also does not bode well for some and it is yet another point that I
pray about and ask others to pray about as well.
Your prayer is ineffectual. The fervent effectual prayer of a
righteous man availeth much; but the prayer of the unrighteous in
behavior accomplishes what?
If I have committed transgressions against others in the past, I have asked
for forgiveness. If someone has committed transgressions against me, I have
unconditionally forgiven them as well. Christians are clearly instructed to
be kind, not rude; patient, not short-tempered; humble, not proud; and also
forgiving.
Why aren't your words believable?
"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one
another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
(Ephesians 4:32)
"Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved,
bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness,
longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one
another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as
Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these
things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness."
(Colossians 3:12-14)
"And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."
(Matthew 6:12)
"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly
Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men
their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your
trespasses." (Matthew 6:14,15)
Some may ask "why forgive someone who sins against me time and time again?"
That's a good question which Jesus Christ answered:
"Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my
brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven
times: but, Until seventy times seven. Therefore is the
kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would
take account of his servants. And when he had begun to
reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten
thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his
lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children,
and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant
therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have
patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of
that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and
forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and
found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred
pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat,
saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell
down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience
with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went
and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So
when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very
sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him,
O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because
thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had
compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors,
till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise
shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your
hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."
(Matthew 18:21-35)
How are we suppose to know who is good and who isn't? Well the Holy
Scriptures also instruct Christians on how to tell the difference:
"Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a
corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit." (Matthew 7:17)
"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth
forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil
treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for
of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh."
(Luke 6:45)
Okay, so you bring forth bad fruit. What does that say about you?
What are you doing to correct the problem?
It is shown that one is known by their "fruit." What is the Bible referring
to in regards to "fruit"? The scriptures explain what the fruit of the Holy
Spirit are:
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace,
longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness,
temperance: against such there is no law."
(Galatians 5:22-23)
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show love? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show joy? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show peace? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show longsuffering? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show gentleness? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show goodness? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show faith? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show meekness? No.
Does Mr. Collins' words of bitterness and vitriol show temperance? No.
Substitute "Carl" for "Mr. Collins" and if you are an honest man you
will not be proud of yourself.
Some are quite lacking in many of those aspects. This is another reason why
we should pray for those and ask others to pray for them as well.
Furthermore, we should be vigilant in our own behavior so, with God's grace,
we continue to exhibit the fruit of the Spirit.
Follow your own advice.
Another area in which some show unChristian behavior is anger. Those who
quickly spew forth angry words towards others are also addressed in the Holy
Scriptures:
"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to
hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man
worketh not the righteousness of God." (James 1:19,20)
Even without those verses, it is readily apparent that anger and vile words
drive away many Christians as well as those wandering souls that could have
used patient, loving, Christian guidance. Therefore angry and vile words
clearly do not achieve the righteousness of God. This saddens me greatly as
well and is something to pray over.
Yep, you ought to heed those words, too.
Another are of abusive behavior is to speak evil of others. Speaking evil
about others is something which Paul clearly instructs Christians not to do.
"To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle,
shewing all meekness unto all men." (Titus 3:2)
Yep, you do that, too mostly in he form of lies and false charges.
An impatience, ungentle nature and vile words also go against scripture in
these verses:
"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife,
vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality,
apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of
filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;"
(1 Timothy 3:2-3)
"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle
unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing
those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give
them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;"
(2 Timothy 2:24,25)
As evidenced by Mr. Collins' own posts, he does not qualify to be a leader
in any legitimate church setting until he at least repents of his ungodly
words and deeds.
Yep, that applies to you, too.
One other thing. Why should I or any Christian bother with those who are
disruptive, abusive, angry, etc.? Well, once again I turn to scripture:
"Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly,
comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient
toward all men. See that none render evil for evil unto any
man; but ever follow that which is good, both among
yourselves, and to all men." (1 Thessalonians 5:14-15)
Here I am encouraged to admonish those who are unruly yet still be patient
to all.
Actually, others admonished to do that towards you.
However, if a person still refuses to listen and turns his unChristian wrath
on you, the Holy Scriptures tell you what you have to do:
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause
divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye
have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve
not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good
words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."
(Romans 16:17,18)
That's what you do, bang for the buck.
In short, if they continue to reject what Jesus instructs, what Paul
clarifies and what the Holy Scriptures teach by continuing in their abusive
ways, then you are required to avoid them and their teachings as long as
they continue.
Amazingly, some people proclaiming to be Christian actually attempt to
justify their abusiveness with scripture, however the Holy Scriptures teach
the following:
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny
him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good
work reprobate." (Titus 1:16)
That does describe you pretty well.
Funny how Mr. Collins, like Steve Winter, calls others "reprobate" when his
own words and deeds on Usenet expose him as a reprobate according to
scripture.
You do the same thing.
Do as the Bereans did and compare the actions and words of those who profess
to be Christian in order to see if they are the words and actions supported
or condemned by the Bible.
You don't do that. You quote and promote your man gods.
You do not have to turn your back on them forever, but instead patiently and
lovingly give them every opportunity to repent of their transgressions and
allow the grace of God to transform them into a brother or sister in Christ
that they could become.
"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and
tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall
hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother." (Matthew 18:15)
Why don't you listen one tells your fault between me and thee?
You can't force anyone to do any of this. All one can do is follow what God
has said to do in the scriptures, pray for others and then leave it in His
hands. I ask you to read what I have written and pray for guidance in
regards to it.
I read it, and saw mucho hypocricy. Maybe you should follow your own
advice before you ask others to follow it.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
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| User: "Carl" |
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| Title: Re: Heresies Of The Word-Faith Movement |
07 Jul 2007 01:21:47 PM |
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"Rev. BR Collins" <rev.brcollins@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1183788773.512919.299440@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 6, 10:51?pm, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
The more famous (or rather infamous) teachers of the word-faith
Ah, reprobate Carl, do you know that YOU are a filthy false christian
scumbag.
Wow, you HAVE been tutored by Steve Winter. You almost have his catchphrase
down.
You wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you in the face.
Since you have none, you can't slap me.
No reprobate Carl, you will be spending eternity with every sinful
scumbag...IN HELL!!!!!!!
And just as Steve Winter attempted to do, you are now claiming by this
self-proclaimed knowledge that you are divinely knowledgable of whom is
saved and whom is not. Since I know from the Bible that you are not
knowledgeable of that, the only conclusion is that via your arrogance and
ignorance and your hatred you speak falsely which further proves that you
are indeed a false teacher and a heretic. You are no "Reverend" and use the
title dishonestly to deceive.
I am thankful that I am saved by God's Grace by my faith in Jesus Christ my
Lord and Savior and nothing you can do nor say will change that fact. I am
overjoyed that I am saved and know that you cannot do anything to prevent
that.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
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| User: "RedFox" |
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| Title: Re: Heresies Of The Word-Faith Movement |
08 Jul 2007 10:59:34 PM |
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Carl mate!
Just go and see a psychiatrist
That is all
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Heresies Of The Word-Faith Movement |
07 Jul 2007 04:09:03 PM |
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On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 00:51:59 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:
The more famous (or rather infamous) teachers of the word-faith movement
(sometimes referred to as "name it and claim it gospel") have taught a wide
range of heresies over the years and still continue today. Here are some
documented examples.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
Carl,
Us "REAL" Christians do not appreciate hypocritical hate mongering
from a heretic schismatic cult following God rejecting man god lover
such as yourself. Did I mention blasphemer and idolator?
Seriously, Baptists and Methodists promote some of the most dangerous
and evil of all false doctrines promoted by men. Maybe if you took
the 4x4 out of both of your eyeballs and look in the mirror you would
be less critical of others.
While it may be that different denominations have doctrines contrary
to the word and will of God; don't you think that it would be more
practical and more loving to attack the doctrines rather than the
people that have been foolish enough to fall for them?
Assuming (and it would be the biggest assumption ever made) that all
of the doctrines that you believe are correct, would it not be by the
grace of God that you were not led astray. In truth, you believe just
as many false doctrines as people from other denominations and are not
in a position to throw stones.
Why don't you stop attacking God's children? If you absolutely must
attack something in order to feel like a man, attack Satan and his
doctrines if you have the balls to do so.
BB
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