"Seth Oslander" <sethos@southwesternbell.net> wrote

A demon is a spirit-being that posesses no physical body and can not
directly enjoy the pleasures of sex.

Horse *****.
Aside from some cheesy Hollywood movies, no one has ever seen a "demon."
Your opinion of what they are and what they do and even their existance,
came from what someone told you. Those people got their information from
what someone told them, and those people got their information from what
someone told them, etc etc etc, all the way back to the original mentally
deranged hysteric who documented their fears and delusions.

Prove your assertions, else be laughed into the outer darkness to face
your own sordid fears . . .
--Tock

Aside from some cheesy Hollywood movies, no one has ever seen a "demon."

"Seth Oslander" <sethos@southwesternbell.net> wrote in message
news:MjVJc.10085$_53.4052@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...

While homosexualty may sometimes be of purely abnormal psycological
origin, to actually do a homo act is an open door to demon posession. In
our urge to be politalcally correct, the demon issue tends either to be
totally neglected or blown out of all proportions.

I'd give you a list of psychiatrist referrals, but I really don't give a
***** about your delusions.

[snip regurgitated cut-and-paste religious hoo-ha]

[plonk]

Homosexual preversion is an open door to demon infestation. The more
compulsively involved a person becomes with sexual perversion, the
greater the likelihood of more and more demons entering.

A man that beat's his wife, or a serial killer, AND someone who
continually
degrades another human being including gays, are good candidates to swing
the
door open to demonics also!

A homosexual who has received Jesus as Lord and Saviour, who has become
celebate, and who has had the demons associated with homosexual sex

I think more homosexuals have more Jesus in their little finger than you
have
in your whole body!

Finally, there is another form of homosexualty which is called a
'generational sin'. This is the inclination to homosexualty passed on
from an ancestor, recent or distant, who was involved in homosexual acts
and was never delivered. Other kinds of generational sins include those
with a propensity to alcoholism and involvement in the occult.

Is this the kind of demonic you got?

The Devil Did Not Make You Do It!
by Tim Phillips

There are many studies on the origins of the Devil who figures so
prominently in Islam, Christianity, Eastern Religions, and most indigenous

religions. This is not a redundant study on how Western Civilization became
under the shadow of a malevolent being. I am often challenged by novitiates
to Evyonut (Ebionitism) about the existence of a Satan (the so-called,
"Devil"), and I am sure they are frustrated with my answers that ramble
through ancient paganism, Zoroastrianism, and Gnostic dualism. But here I
will take another approach to the problem, a much more simple and positive
answer that does not point to bad religious influences. We'll give those
folks a rest this time round.

Evyonut and Total Monotheism

As Ebionites and Jews we are monotheists in the extreme. Simply stated,
Yahweh is our God; Yahweh alone. Yahweh is the First Cause. He is the Source
of everything, both good and bad. But technically, good and bad are just
concepts relative to our own situation.

In our thinking and according to the Torah (the instructive books Genesis to
Deuteronomy---that is from B'reshiyt to Devarim) this universe is good, and,
in fact, kiy tov, very good. Yahweh 'Elohim created mankind like Himself
with free will to make choices. According to the ancient story, this freedom
of choice includes the freedom to disobey. In the story this curious
disobedience is assisted by a mythological creature, a nahash which
superstitious people assign to be the arch-demonic enemy of mankind. Instead
of the man and woman choosing to test their choice and imagining gaining the
attributes of God---a quest that is so typically a part of human nature and
history---we are told to interpret this as "the Fall" of mankind, and along
the same line of reasoning, we must assume that the serpent was the
dualistic Satan who the first humans chose to obey rather than God. I wonder
if this makes Adam and Eve satanists? And here then we have two supernatural
beings contesting for infuence over mankind.

This is not true. The serpent is merely a prop borrowed from the ancient
semitic folk characters. The story is not an eyewitness account, but an
explanation of a human nature the storytellers knew firsthand. There was no
"Fall" and no "original sin." It is a monotheistic tale, not a dualistic
sensational thriller of occult origins that only Jesus could "save" us from.

Instead the story acknowledges Yahwism and monotheism. It tells of a good
world, a perfect creation that would remain so as long as man chose to obey
Yahweh and operate within the parameters of that world freely. We are told
throughout the prophetic writings of Israel that the ultimate goal for the
world and mankind is to attain that paradise, the Gan 'Eden, again. The
storytellers clearly saw that the world they knew was not a paradise where
all needs grew on trees and welled up from the ground or where there was
nothing to fear. The world was entered by travail and life continued to be a
struggle from that first breath to the last.

Nothing is there about the serpent winning the souls of Adam and Eve. The
world was not given over to this mythological being because some lady ate an
apple (another subject dealing with Latin and Christians). At the end of the
tale we have Yahweh in control to do as He pleases; mankind is left to the
consequences of their own choice to disobey or obey, just as any child
chooses a time when they know better than their parents; and Adam and Eve
move out into the wide world as we all do to make our way.

The monotheist says, 'We once had it all and we should have listened when we
had it good.' And they now make a better effort to listen.

The dualist says, 'That goddamned snake! It's his fault! If he wasn't around
(because they have immortalized him), we would still be perfect.' And they
develop a theology that looks for a perfect person to substitute for the
first man who sinned. (But a woman sinned first, didn't she?) By blaming
every bad thing on this incident, they have deified both sin and the
creature to whom they shift all the blame, and in fact declare it as the
ruler of part of Yahweh's creation.

Ebionites, being monotheists, know that all creation belongs to Yahweh, and
have no power to deify men or snakes.

Why Ebionites Cannot Believe in a Devil

Monotheism has no room for the belief in a userper of God. But there is
mention of heavenly competitors, rebels against God, other-worldly tempters
who lead the world astray.

The literalist can find boogermen in the Tanak (the Hebrew Bible, called Old
Testament by Christians), and it will make no difference if I tell them that
these passages come from a time during the Babylonian Exile and after when
Jews were exposed to dualistic religion. So I will take a more practical,
Yahwistic approach.

Why would anyone look for the Devil, Satan, and demonic beings? We are
commanded to acknowledge no other gods. And any being who can force or
coerce men to do their bidding must, for all intents and purposes, be
considered gods. So even if we could argue that there was a Devil, that
should be meaningless in regard to our faith. Even if there is such a
creature, we have no business acknowledging anyone or thing as influencing
our lives. This is a form of idolatry. Extreme and true monotheism has no
room for a malevolent being capable of ruling us.

Acknowledging such a being usually entails a tendency to shift
responsibility for our trangressions and denies our total responsibility as
free agents as YHWH has created us with free will. This is the most
attractive thing about believing in a devil---we can say "the devil made me
do it!" Are people saying, 'I am perfect, but just caugt in an evil world
where malevolent beings make me bad.'? Oh, please. Quit passing the buck.
Are you here for anything!? Demons make you sin, a savior god makes you
good. You might as well be mop.

We must decide if we believe that we are impotent pawns in a game or fleshly
robots to be possessed by competing deities, or instead we are part of a
good and godly creation with the intellect and independence as a thinking
partner of Yahweh. We are more than a movie with a canned ending, surely.

A devil is an antithesis of good and God. This can only be understood as a
cosmic state of dualism, and creation must therefore be interpreted
according to good and its antithesis. But it also denies that YHWH created
the universe as good, and our free choice to isolate ourselves from good.
Everything in the universe without end is created in a good, purposeful
way, and there are no mistakes, no evil. The only evil is a form of human
denial or ignorance of that purposefulness, and abuse of what was intended
for us.

The Tanak indeed speaks of other gods. They are gods belonging to other
peoples. But do you believe that these gods really exist? It speaks of
monsters and haints. Do you believe in them? Are they not just
personifications of a bad day or all those guys you would like to throttle?

The devil is used as a control tool for people who do not have the proper
control tool---the Torah. How many of us have been told that whenever we did
something momma did not approve of that the devil would "get us?" Doesn't
some religions still use the devil as an enforcer? But the prophets and
Yahshua spoke of doing good because of people entering in covenant with
Yahweh freely and His commandments would be written on their hearts.
Ebionites voluntarily embrace this, and the control is internal, not
external. If someone has to make you be good, the whole point has been
missed. "Do this, or we will kill you; do this, or the Devil will get you;
do this, or burn in torment forever." Whoever says things like this has not
only missed the boat, but the ocean as well.

Isn't time you grew up and accepted the responsibility for your actions? My
mother used to ask, 'Who did this?' and we never would admit to doing it
because we couldn't bear not being perfect, and the possible consequences of
not being perfect. She said, 'Oh, the ghost did it, I suppose!' She was also
fond of letting the Devil have us. We never learned to be too awfully good,
but we sure learned that we could come up with excuses to dodge blame for
our own actions. Can you believe that there are several major religious
systems based on this childish behavior?

"Seth Oslander" <sethos@southwesternbell.net> wrote in message
news:MjVJc.10085$_53.4052@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
| While homosexualty may sometimes be of purely abnormal psycological
| origin, to actually do a homo act is an open door to demon posession. In
| our urge to be politalcally correct, the demon issue tends either to be
| totally neglected or blown out of all proportions.
|
|
| A demon is a spirit-being that posesses no physical body and can not
| directly enjoy the pleasures of sex. To do this a demon must enter a
| human body and literally 'tap' into the thoughts, feelings and physical
| sensations of its host. A demon may only enter a human being if that
| person disobeys Jesus or certain commandments of God, specifically those
| sins that exclude a person from the Kingdom of God. Most demons attempt
| to influence or tempt a person from the outside by wispering to them.
| Once inside, they have their hands on many of the controling mechanisms
| of his psyche and physical apetites. Once inside, a demon subverts the
| souls processes to serve it's own ends of sexual pleasure.
|
|
| Until demons inside the soul are expelled, that soul can never function
| properly and may not only find itself confused misled about fundamentally
| important matters concerning salvation but also be gradually burned up
| physically and finally be killed. There are always plenty more hosts for
| demons to occupy.
|
|
| Homosexual preversion is an open door to demon infestation. The more
| compulsively involved a person becomes with sexual perversion, the
| greater the likelihood of more and more demons entering. It is most
| unlikely that there is only one demon involved when a person has been
| involved in homosexual acts for a long time and the Bible speaks many
| times of an individual being possessed by more than one.
|
| A homosexual who has received Jesus as Lord and Saviour, who has become
| celebate, and who has had the demons associated with homosexual sex
| thrown out of him, is not necessarily demon-controlled just because he
| continues to have same-sex attractions. But if he reverts to homosexual
| acts, then without a doubt the demons will return, and sometimes with a
| vengeance. And often they will bring A.I.D.S. with them this time.
|
| Finally, there is another form of homosexualty which is called a
| 'generational sin'. This is the inclination to homosexualty passed on
| from an ancestor, recent or distant, who was involved in homosexual acts
| and was never delivered. Other kinds of generational sins include those
| with a propensity to alcoholism and involvement in the occult.
| Generational sins are demon-controlled and can only be broken by
| deliverance ministry.
|
|
| Deliverance from homosexual sex-demons may be done either by the
| homosexual himself or by a deliverance minister. And the demons
| associated with homosexual acts are particular strong which is why so
| many homosexuals have such terrible struggles to be completely free.
|
|
| Part of the deliverance program for homosexuals, whether it is from
| demonic oppression or the psycological changeover process, should involve
| active fellowship and worship within a good Bible-believing church where
| you will be accepted and loved.
|
| To be delivered from demons, commitment to the Lord is the first and most
| important step. The second is going celebate until you are heterosexual
| and breaking all contact with the homosexual life style. You cant do
| witnessing to homosexuals yet because you are still spiritually blind in
| many areas. And you know what our Lord says about the blind leading the
| blind. But mostly it's for your own protection. You are still far too
| vulnerable and could easily slip back into the homosexual lifestyle.
|
| Only when these steps have been taken - proper conversion to Christ and a
| determination to lead a celibate lifestyle until you are fully healed -
| can deliverance have any chance of succeeding.
|
| Helping homosexuals is a big job, but its something Christians must do as
| part of their duty to witness. The world is a big place and there
| aren't that many ministries to help homosexuals, though they are growing
| in number and experience. Family.org and exodus-international.org are
| good places to start.
|