Religions > Bible > How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain?
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Gactimus" |
| Date: |
18 Dec 2004 12:59:16 PM |
| Object: |
How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
When a giraffe lowers its head toward the ground, wouldn't you expect the
blood pressure to increase so much that its brain would explode?
It's true that the giraffe's blood pressure rises so much that it might cause
its brain to explode. But, this doesn't happen because the giraffe has a
series of incredible features. This includes reinforced artery walls, bypass
valves, as well as pressure-sensing signals that all work together to
maintain the proper blood pressure.
But then comes the real trick. As the giraffe raises its head, the same
systems used to reduce the pressure when the head is lowered, also act to
increase the pressure as the head is raised (so the giraffe doesn’t pass
out).
The problem for evolutionists is this. How many giraffes blew their brains to
pieces when bending down--how many passed out as they lifted their heads,
becoming food for the lions--until the special features somehow evolved?
It's obvious that the very first giraffes had to have these special features
right from the beginning. If not, they wouldn’t have survived to pass them on
to their offspring! Of course, this is not at all surprising to those who
believe in a Creator.
.
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| User: "Jeff Thomas" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
23 Dec 2004 12:54:53 AM |
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The apparatus is called a rete mirabile and is usually used as a heat
exchanger in many animals and all ungulates. It is an apparatus in which
arteries and veins pass close together. In birds it prevents heat loss to
the legs. In northern mammals it can prevent heat loss while in many
tropical mammals one in the neck prevents overheating of the brain. One can
be found which keeps the testes cool and it can be found in fish. In
giraffes the rete mirabile controls excess blood flow. Only small
modifications were required. Dizziness and fainting would be dangerous with
predators around so there would be selection for these changes from the
start. Remember the neck evolved very slowly so only small improvements over
time would be necessary. 10 million years is probably 3 million generations
of giraffes. Only tiny advantages would easily favour giraffes with better
blood control. This is typical of the evolutionary process, putting an
already existing organ to a different use.
Actually, the giraffe problem is a bit exaggerated. The giraffe has
strong connective tissues and hide. The increased blood pressure is
counterbalanced by the increased pressure in the surrounding tissues. Inside
the skull the vessels cannot expand much. (This is why edema in the brain is
so dangerous. The leaking fluid pressure compresses arteries because the
brain cannot expand like a bump on the head.) When the giraffe has his head
up, the heart pumps at high pressure. The legs are surrounded by a tough
tissue to prevent expansion, like a pilots G-suit, thus preventing blood
rushing to the legs.
The giraffe didn't suddenly have a long neck and then have a problem
with heads exploding. It is easy to come up with problems with evolution if
you only understand half the facts.
The giraffe must engage in dangerous contortions in order to drink.
Giraffes don't have the enzymes necessary to break down cellulose, its
primary food. Like other ungulates, giraffes depend upon inefficient
bacterial digestion. Giraffes drop their babies 8 feet to the ground rather
than bending down. Giraffes have long legs but cannot run very fast compared
to gazelles. As an evolutionist, I can easily explain these facts. A divine
engineer should be severely reprimanded.
"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:1103396356.829696243733efc51ccd25499e180e97@bubbanews...
When a giraffe lowers its head toward the ground, wouldn't you expect the
blood pressure to increase so much that its brain would explode?
It's true that the giraffe's blood pressure rises so much that it might
cause
its brain to explode. But, this doesn't happen because the giraffe has a
series of incredible features. This includes reinforced artery walls,
bypass
valves, as well as pressure-sensing signals that all work together to
maintain the proper blood pressure.
But then comes the real trick. As the giraffe raises its head, the same
systems used to reduce the pressure when the head is lowered, also act to
increase the pressure as the head is raised (so the giraffe doesn’t pass
out).
The problem for evolutionists is this. How many giraffes blew their brains
to
pieces when bending down--how many passed out as they lifted their heads,
becoming food for the lions--until the special features somehow evolved?
It's obvious that the very first giraffes had to have these special
features
right from the beginning. If not, they wouldn’t have survived to pass them
on
to their offspring! Of course, this is not at all surprising to those who
believe in a Creator.
.
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| User: "Rev Mark" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
19 Dec 2004 11:14:29 PM |
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"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:1103396356.829696243733efc51ccd25499e180e97@bubbanews...
When a giraffe lowers its head toward the ground, wouldn't you expect the
blood pressure to increase so much that its brain would explode?
It's true that the giraffe's blood pressure rises so much that it might
cause
its brain to explode. But, this doesn't happen because the giraffe has a
series of incredible features. This includes reinforced artery walls,
bypass
valves, as well as pressure-sensing signals that all work together to
maintain the proper blood pressure.
But then comes the real trick. As the giraffe raises its head, the same
systems used to reduce the pressure when the head is lowered, also act to
increase the pressure as the head is raised (so the giraffe doesn't pass
out).
The problem for evolutionists is this. How many giraffes blew their brains
to
pieces when bending down--how many passed out as they lifted their heads,
becoming food for the lions--until the special features somehow evolved?
It's obvious that the very first giraffes had to have these special
features
right from the beginning. If not, they wouldn't have survived to pass them
on
to their offspring! Of course, this is not at all surprising to those who
believe in a Creator.
At least credit the Answers in Genesis site for this plagiarized material.
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| User: "Bobby D. Bryant" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
20 Dec 2004 02:49:19 AM |
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On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, "Rev Mark" <revmgrobner@earthlink.net> wrote:
At least credit the Answers in Genesis site for this plagiarized material.
Or 'blame', as the case may be.
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
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| User: "Pedantus" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
19 Dec 2004 04:39:20 PM |
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"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:1103396356.829696243733efc51ccd25499e180e97@bubbanews...
When a giraffe lowers its head toward the ground, wouldn't you expect the
blood pressure to increase so much that its brain would explode?
It's true that the giraffe's blood pressure rises so much that it might
cause
its brain to explode. But, this doesn't happen because the giraffe has a
series of incredible features. This includes reinforced artery walls,
bypass
valves, as well as pressure-sensing signals that all work together to
maintain the proper blood pressure.
But then comes the real trick. As the giraffe raises its head, the same
systems used to reduce the pressure when the head is lowered, also act to
increase the pressure as the head is raised (so the giraffe doesn't pass
out).
The problem for evolutionists is this. How many giraffes blew their brains
to
pieces when bending down--how many passed out as they lifted their heads,
becoming food for the lions--until the special features somehow evolved?
None. These features could easily be the gradual adaptation of long necked
aquatic ancestors, these perhaps gradually needing to lift their heads
higher and higher out of the water to feed on land plants, before moving on
to land etc., etc., etc.. The lack of fossils is of course probably due to
God's faults....:)
It's obvious that the very first giraffes had to have these special
features
right from the beginning. If not, they wouldn't have survived to pass them
on
to their offspring! Of course, this is not at all surprising to those who
believe in a Creator.
.
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| User: "Flipper Niddiot" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
18 Dec 2004 03:23:50 PM |
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"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:1103396356.829696243733efc51ccd25499e180e97@bubbanews...
The original giraffes obviously just stuck to eating only from the tree's.
Duh!
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
18 Dec 2004 06:08:38 PM |
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considering the first giraffe born with a long neck and legs carried
that dominant gene onto the offspring, they really never needed to
change much after that, the modification was adequate to begin with,
they adapted to eating only from trees and liked it so much they never
needed to change. Crocodiles havent changed much in millions of years
they have a good survival system already in place. Now consider many
dogs interbred by humans over the last several hundred years, they are
many types of dogs now that have been genetically manipulated for
centurys by people.This can happen naturally if the conditions come
together for this to happen but it would take long periods of time to
naturally produce a daschund in the wild for example. Can you imagine
how well a daschund would survive in the wild?
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
19 Dec 2004 08:28:25 AM |
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On 18 Dec 2004 16:08:38 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
considering the first giraffe born with a long neck and legs carried
that dominant gene onto the offspring, they really never needed to
change much after that, the modification was adequate to begin with,
they adapted to eating only from trees and liked it so much they never
needed to change.
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
http://www.present-truth.org/Evolution%20of%20Creationist/MOGC%2005.htm
Crocodiles havent changed much in millions of years
they have a good survival system already in place.
You assume they've been alive for millions of years.
Now consider many
dogs interbred by humans over the last several hundred years, they are
many types of dogs now that have been genetically manipulated for
centurys by people.This can happen naturally if the conditions come
together for this to happen but it would take long periods of time to
naturally produce a daschund in the wild for example. Can you imagine
how well a daschund would survive in the wild?
Dogs interbreeding is an example of microevolution. A
fact of science. What you believe is not and that is
why it cannot be demonstrated.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
19 Dec 2004 04:43:32 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On 18 Dec 2004 16:08:38 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
considering the first giraffe born with a long neck and legs carried
that dominant gene onto the offspring, they really never needed to
change much after that, the modification was adequate to begin with,
they adapted to eating only from trees and liked it so much they
never
needed to change.
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
Dogs interbreeding is an example of microevolution. A
fact of science. What you believe is not and that is
why it cannot be demonstrated.
Pastor Dave Raymond
follows that macroevolution would work in the same way, only over a
longer period of time.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
20 Dec 2004 09:29:55 AM |
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On 19 Dec 2004 14:43:32 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On 18 Dec 2004 16:08:38 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
considering the first giraffe born with a long neck and legs carried
that dominant gene onto the offspring, they really never needed to
change much after that, the modification was adequate to begin with,
they adapted to eating only from trees and liked it so much they
never
needed to change.
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
I asked you how it could be possible according to what
you believe.
http://www.present-truth.org/Evolution%20of%20Creationist/MOGC%2005.htm
Dogs interbreeding is an example of microevolution. A
fact of science. What you believe is not and that is
why it cannot be demonstrated.
Pastor Dave Raymond
follows that macroevolution would work in the same way, only over a
longer period of time.
No,it doesn't follow. That is your belief. One that
you cannot support.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
20 Dec 2004 12:25:26 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On 19 Dec 2004 14:43:32 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On 18 Dec 2004 16:08:38 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
considering the first giraffe born with a long neck and legs
carried
that dominant gene onto the offspring, they really never needed
to
change much after that, the modification was adequate to begin
with,
they adapted to eating only from trees and liked it so much they
never
needed to change.
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
I asked you how it could be possible according to what
you believe.
what I believe? I'm not an expert in biological and evolutionary
sciences, why dont you ask someone like that for the mechanical and
scientific explanation. If you don't believe them thats your problem,
not mine. If I believed that aliens did it and I told you so, would you
believe it? Why are you asking me? Why dont you go pray to your fairy
tale god and ask him how he did it. Try not to take too long, I dont
have all century you know.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
20 Dec 2004 01:15:10 PM |
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On 20 Dec 2004 10:25:26 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On 19 Dec 2004 14:43:32 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On 18 Dec 2004 16:08:38 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
considering the first giraffe born with a long neck and legs
carried
that dominant gene onto the offspring, they really never needed
to
change much after that, the modification was adequate to begin
with,
they adapted to eating only from trees and liked it so much they
never
needed to change.
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
I asked you how it could be possible according to what
you believe.
what I believe?
Are you saying that you don't believe it?
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "Tom" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
20 Dec 2004 03:03:38 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:t49es0phtvrqf3p32487jhuat11bm1enr7@4ax.com...
On 20 Dec 2004 10:25:26 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On 19 Dec 2004 14:43:32 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On 18 Dec 2004 16:08:38 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
considering the first giraffe born with a long neck and legs
carried
that dominant gene onto the offspring, they really never needed
to
change much after that, the modification was adequate to begin
with,
they adapted to eating only from trees and liked it so much they
never
needed to change.
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
I asked you how it could be possible according to what
you believe.
what I believe?
Are you saying that you don't believe it?
No you ignorant *****, he is questioning your description of his understanding
as a belief. <chuckle>
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
21 Dec 2004 01:25:08 PM |
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pastor dave is a complete monkeydick, thats not difficult to believe
either
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
21 Dec 2004 06:39:31 PM |
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On 21 Dec 2004 11:25:08 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
I asked you how it could be possible according to what
you believe.
what I believe?
Are you saying that you don't believe it?
pastor dave is a complete monkeydick, thats not difficult to believe
either
This is the best scientific response they've got,
folks.
Goodbye. <plonk!>
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "anonymous person" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
21 Dec 2004 07:17:05 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gcghs05tj34gf53ceh0h0ajojhuv5s9hng@4ax.com...
On 21 Dec 2004 11:25:08 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
I asked you how it could be possible according to what
you believe.
what I believe?
Are you saying that you don't believe it?
pastor dave is a complete monkeydick, thats not difficult to believe
either
This is the best scientific response they've got,
folks.
Goodbye. <plonk!>
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
You did well, Pastor Dave
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| User: "Wally Anglesea" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
21 Dec 2004 07:20:34 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gcghs05tj34gf53ceh0h0ajojhuv5s9hng@4ax.com...
On 21 Dec 2004 11:25:08 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
I asked you how it could be possible according to what
you believe.
what I believe?
Are you saying that you don't believe it?
pastor dave is a complete monkeydick, thats not difficult to believe
either
This is the best scientific response they've got,
folks.
The sad part is, that's probably the lie you will end up telling your sheep.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
21 Dec 2004 07:41:04 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 01:20:34 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, Wally Anglesea
<wanglese@spigponaddmerarevermin.net.au> pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gcghs05tj34gf53ceh0h0ajojhuv5s9hng@4ax.com...
On 21 Dec 2004 11:25:08 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
I asked you how it could be possible according to what
you believe.
what I believe?
Are you saying that you don't believe it?
pastor dave is a complete monkeydick, thats not difficult to believe
either
This is the best scientific response they've got,
folks.
The sad part is, that's probably the lie you will end up telling your sheep.
And of course, Wally jumps in to prove that he's got a
better, scientific response. <chuckle>
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "Tom" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
22 Dec 2004 08:24:45 AM |
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"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:h4khs09citbm501cvh72pbr4oafvs1ifu2@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 01:20:34 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, Wally Anglesea
<wanglese@spigponaddmerarevermin.net.au> pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gcghs05tj34gf53ceh0h0ajojhuv5s9hng@4ax.com...
On 21 Dec 2004 11:25:08 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
I asked you how it could be possible according to what
you believe.
what I believe?
Are you saying that you don't believe it?
pastor dave is a complete monkeydick, thats not difficult to believe
either
This is the best scientific response they've got,
folks.
The sad part is, that's probably the lie you will end up telling your
sheep.
And of course, Wally jumps in to prove that he's got a
better, scientific response. <chuckle>
If he has a scientific response it is better than yours Dave, because you
are scientifically illiterate.
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| User: "Wally Anglesea" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
21 Dec 2004 08:41:17 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 01:20:34 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, Wally Anglesea
<wanglese@spigponaddmerarevermin.net.au> pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gcghs05tj34gf53ceh0h0ajojhuv5s9hng@4ax.com...
On 21 Dec 2004 11:25:08 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
I asked you how it could be possible according to what
you believe.
what I believe?
Are you saying that you don't believe it?
pastor dave is a complete monkeydick, thats not difficult to believe
either
This is the best scientific response they've got,
folks.
The sad part is, that's probably the lie you will end up telling your sheep.
And of course, Wally jumps in to prove that he's got a
better, scientific response. <chuckle>
My response was merely to point out that you will lie to your sheep to
maintain your position. Something creationists often do. One wonders why
so many creationists believe that telling lies for God gets you into heaven.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
21 Dec 2004 08:45:26 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 02:41:17 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, Wally Anglesea
<wanglese@spigponaddmerarevermin.net.au> pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 01:20:34 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, Wally Anglesea
<wanglese@spigponaddmerarevermin.net.au> pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gcghs05tj34gf53ceh0h0ajojhuv5s9hng@4ax.com...
On 21 Dec 2004 11:25:08 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
I asked you how it could be possible according to what
you believe.
what I believe?
Are you saying that you don't believe it?
pastor dave is a complete monkeydick, thats not difficult to believe
either
This is the best scientific response they've got,
folks.
The sad part is, that's probably the lie you will end up telling your sheep.
And of course, Wally jumps in to prove that he's got a
better, scientific response. <chuckle>
My response was merely to point out that you will lie to your sheep to
maintain your position. Something creationists often do. One wonders why
so many creationists believe that telling lies for God gets you into heaven.
Prove that I lie to those I preach to.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "Tom" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
22 Dec 2004 08:27:23 AM |
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"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ftnhs0dlr541gn5evq2dt7989o61ibl1gt@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 02:41:17 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, Wally Anglesea
<wanglese@spigponaddmerarevermin.net.au> pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 01:20:34 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, Wally Anglesea
<wanglese@spigponaddmerarevermin.net.au> pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gcghs05tj34gf53ceh0h0ajojhuv5s9hng@4ax.com...
On 21 Dec 2004 11:25:08 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant
for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
I asked you how it could be possible according to what
you believe.
what I believe?
Are you saying that you don't believe it?
pastor dave is a complete monkeydick, thats not difficult to believe
either
This is the best scientific response they've got,
folks.
The sad part is, that's probably the lie you will end up telling your
sheep.
And of course, Wally jumps in to prove that he's got a
better, scientific response. <chuckle>
My response was merely to point out that you will lie to your sheep to
maintain your position. Something creationists often do. One wonders why
so many creationists believe that telling lies for God gets you into
heaven.
Prove that I lie to those I preach to.
Let's see liar, you preach a young earth and universe, that is a lie and has
been refuted by scientific data. Now that you are making claims to others it
and no longer can rely on your personal beliefs as a shield, where is your
scientific evidence for a young earth and universe. Yes "Pastor" Dave, you
are a liar.
.
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| User: "Wally Anglesea" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
21 Dec 2004 08:59:50 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 02:41:17 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, Wally Anglesea
<wanglese@spigponaddmerarevermin.net.au> pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 01:20:34 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, Wally Anglesea
<wanglese@spigponaddmerarevermin.net.au> pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gcghs05tj34gf53ceh0h0ajojhuv5s9hng@4ax.com...
On 21 Dec 2004 11:25:08 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, pontificated:
You don't seem to understand what it takes for a
giraffe to have a long neck.
many life forms have complex mechanisms, how about an elephant for
example, doesn't mean a fairy tale god made it happen.
I asked you how it could be possible according to what
you believe.
what I believe?
Are you saying that you don't believe it?
pastor dave is a complete monkeydick, thats not difficult to believe
either
This is the best scientific response they've got,
folks.
The sad part is, that's probably the lie you will end up telling your sheep.
And of course, Wally jumps in to prove that he's got a
better, scientific response. <chuckle>
My response was merely to point out that you will lie to your sheep to
maintain your position. Something creationists often do. One wonders why
so many creationists believe that telling lies for God gets you into heaven.
Prove that I lie to those I preach to.
Not that I have to, If you are one of those creationists that often lie,
either by outright distortion, or omission, I'd normally leave it to
your conscience, but:
So you don't tell your sheep that there is no real evidence for
evolution, and there *is* scientific, irrefutable evidence to support
Creation and intelligent design, and you proceeded to this from studying
the evidence including aboriginal creation myths which predate the
Bible, and not by deciding ahead of time that the Bible is the final
revealed word of God?
If you don't then I'll accept you are honest about it.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
21 Dec 2004 09:48:50 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 02:59:50 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, Wally Anglesea
<wanglese@spigponaddmerarevermin.net.au> pontificated:
And of course, Wally jumps in to prove that he's got a
better, scientific response. <chuckle>
My response was merely to point out that you will lie to your sheep to
maintain your position. Something creationists often do. One wonders why
so many creationists believe that telling lies for God gets you into heaven.
Prove that I lie to those I preach to.
Not that I have to, If you are one of those creationists that often lie,
either by outright distortion, or omission, I'd normally leave it to
your conscience, but:
So you don't tell your sheep that there is no real evidence for
evolution,
There is plenty of evidence for microevolution, which
is a demonstrable fact of science. It can be tested
and repeatable results by experimentation can be had.
As for macroevolution, which is above the level of
species (not just speciation), there is no evidence
whatsoever and whenever evolutionists are challenged to
provide the mountains of evidence they claim exists,
they are shown that their information is not up to date
and is erroneous (like using Lucy as an ancestor of
man) and then when shown that, they immediately resort
to insults. Or, they don't bother providing any
evidence, but just claim that they have and proceed
right to the insults. Or, they provide evidence of
microevolution and then try to turn the tables and
demand that I prove that macroevolution could not
happen. Ridiculous.
If you think you can do better, then have at it. But
web pages like talk.origins that just proceed to make
the same claims and drawings, is not proof and yes,
evolutionists in these news groups do claim that it is
proven and then when trapped by their own words,
proceed to lie and claim that no one said that and then
when quotes are provided, they demand that I show them
a scientist who has said it (and there have been). In
other words, they act in a dishonest manner and will
not admit to their own words.
and there *is* scientific, irrefutable evidence to support
Creation and intelligent design,
I didn't use the word "irrefutable". There is however,
evidence. And there are scientists who believe it and
claiming that they aren't scientists just because they
don't believe what you do, is dishonest. That's
another thing evolutionists do. They try to stack the
deck, by claiming that no one is a scientist unless
they believe the same thing.
However none of this matters, since creation was not
under discussion here. Evolution as you people think
it happened, is.
and you proceeded to this from studying
the evidence including aboriginal creation myths which predate the
Bible, and not by deciding ahead of time that the Bible is the final
revealed word of God?
There is nothing that predates what is told in the
Bible. So far, the oldest writings may predate the
Bible, but that doesn't mean that the stories you refer
to do. Vocal transmission was the norm for the
Hebrews, before it was written down and we also don't
know that archaeology won't find a writing that is
older than what is currently known in the future and
for you to act as if that couldn't happen, is a foolish
stance at best. It was attitudes like yours that
claimed that the Hittites never existed and guess what?
At a later time it was found that they did and there
many more examples like that of extreme bias on the
part of atheists and others.
The problem here is that while you accuse me of being
biased, you reveal your own bias. You assume that it
is not the word of God and base your claims upon that.
In reality, all you have is your own belief that it
isn't and then attempt to ridicule me because I believe
it is. That's hypocritical.
If you don't then I'll accept you are honest about it.
You believe what you wish and I will do the same. The
fact is, you attacked me and made an accusation that
here, you admit may be wrong, so why make the
accusation in the first place?
Again, if you think you can prove evolution as you
believe it happened, then have at it and yes, absolute
proof is required. Irrefutable evidence of
macroevolution. And not some redefining of the word by
evolutionists. Macroevolution as what it really is and
I have more than once provided a quote from a
scientific dictionary. I require absolute proof, with
no room for doubt, because you people claim it
happened, period, no way it didn't and everyone who
doesn't believe it is a fool. That is not a scientific
approach, but since you believe that (and we both know
you do, so don't bother claiming otherwise), proof is
required. If you do not wish to provide absolute 100%
proof that it is absolute truth, then be ready to admit
that there is room for doubting that it happened, but
you believe it to be the best explanation. Don't tell
me that it is the best explanation without allowing for
doubt, because then you are still making a truth claim
and that requires proof. I.e., I give zero room for
evolutionists to play word games and try to wiggle out
of their own words, just because they are finding
themselves backed into a corner.
The ball's in your court. And also don't bother
demanding proof of creation. The discussion was about
evolution and I will not allow you to try to turn it
around. You call your belief science, so demonstrate
it to be such and provide the proof that only fools
would deny it.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
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| User: "ebataitis" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
21 Dec 2004 10:22:09 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
(snip)
Again, if you think you can prove evolution as you
believe it happened, then have at it and yes, absolute
proof is required.
Really now? Dave, why do you think all those scientists are lying? All
those biologists and cosmologists and physicists and astronomers and
paleotologists, all those medical researchers, are they all lying? Why?
It's the question I keep asking and never get much of an answer for.
Irrefutable evidence of
macroevolution. And not some redefining of the word by
evolutionists.
But your redefining of it is ok? Why?
Macroevolution as what it really is and
I have more than once provided a quote from a
scientific dictionary.
But you expect us to google it right? I have tried before (more than
once) and have failed to find it. If you've done this more than once you
should be able to post it again. Surely even you can google.
I require absolute proof, with
no room for doubt,
Bwahahaha! Loads of laughs tonight. And science should kowtow to your
desires because....?
because you people claim it
happened, period, no way it didn't
That's true, because it did happen, is happening and will continue to
happen into the future. But that laugh a minute fossil record sits there
and sits there in witness to what Dave?
and everyone who
doesn't believe it is a fool.
Well, those who don't believe may not be fools but they certainly have
only a nodding acquaintence with biological science.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
21 Dec 2004 10:26:56 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:22:09 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, ebataitis <nylicens@frontiernet.net>
pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
(snip)
Again, if you think you can prove evolution as you
believe it happened, then have at it and yes, absolute
proof is required.
Really now? Dave, why do you think all those scientists are lying?
This is what I'm talking about. Foolishness. This is
the best you've got.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
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| User: "Tom" |
|
| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
22 Dec 2004 08:30:04 AM |
|
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"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:lrths09imqrilsudql1j00m305e222ea1r@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:22:09 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, ebataitis <nylicens@frontiernet.net>
pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
(snip)
Again, if you think you can prove evolution as you
believe it happened, then have at it and yes, absolute
proof is required.
Really now? Dave, why do you think all those scientists are lying?
This is what I'm talking about. Foolishness. This is
the best you've got.
No Dave, you have accused almost the entire scientific community of lying
and he wants to know why you think they are all lying. You have made an
accusation that you can't support and now you are attempting to deflect the
criticism. You are a lair right down to your worthless bones.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
22 Dec 2004 08:39:28 AM |
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 09:30:04 -0500, "Tom" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:lrths09imqrilsudql1j00m305e222ea1r@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:22:09 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, ebataitis <nylicens@frontiernet.net>
pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
(snip)
Again, if you think you can prove evolution as you
believe it happened, then have at it and yes, absolute
proof is required.
Really now? Dave, why do you think all those scientists are lying?
This is what I'm talking about. Foolishness. This is
the best you've got.
No Dave, you have accused almost the entire scientific community of lying
and he wants to know why you think they are all lying. You have made an
accusation that you can't support and now you are attempting to deflect the
criticism. You are a lair right down to your worthless bones.
It's a common theme among fundamentalists and creationists. A
world-wide conspiracy by scientists to both hide "evidence" of
creation and to push lies called evolution.
.
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| User: "ebataitis" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
22 Dec 2004 07:39:06 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:22:09 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, ebataitis <nylicens@frontiernet.net>
pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
(snip)
Again, if you think you can prove evolution as you
believe it happened, then have at it and yes, absolute
proof is required.
Really now? Dave, why do you think all those scientists are lying?
This is what I'm talking about. Foolishness. This is
the best you've got.
Oh Dave, you know this is not true. Science has evidence, and plenty of
it, just none that you will accept. I still would like to see some
explanation for why all those scientsts are lying about the evidence.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
22 Dec 2004 07:50:55 AM |
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:39:06 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, ebataitis <nylicens@frontiernet.net>
pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:22:09 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, ebataitis <nylicens@frontiernet.net>
pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
(snip)
Again, if you think you can prove evolution as you
believe it happened, then have at it and yes, absolute
proof is required.
Really now? Dave, why do you think all those scientists are lying?
This is what I'm talking about. Foolishness. This is
the best you've got.
Oh Dave, you know this is not true.
How can I know that, when insults is all you have,
which you prove by your own posts?
Science has evidence, and plenty of
it, just none that you will accept.
Claiming it again, doesn't make it so.
I still would like to see some
explanation for why all those scientsts are lying about the evidence.
Once again, they claim mounds of evidence, but their
argument always boils down to majority opinion equals
truth.
"May not a future generation well ask how any
scientist, in full possession of his intellectual
faculties and with adequate knowledge of information
theory could ever execute the feat of cognitive
acrobatics necessary to sincerely believe that a
(supremely complex) machine system of information,
storage and retrieval, servicing millions of cells,
diagnosing defects and then repairing them in a
teleonomic Von Newman manner, arose in randomness - the
antipole of information?" - Dr. A. E. Wilder-Smith
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
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| User: "Elmer Bataitis" |
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| Title: Re: How can a giraffe lower its head without exploding its brain? |
22 Dec 2004 09:04:40 AM |
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"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:pouis09m2dpn9btt6fskip8dpehdqbsflb@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:39:06 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, ebataitis <nylicens@frontiernet.net>
pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:22:09 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, ebataitis <nylicens@frontiernet.net>
pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
(snip)
Again, if you think you can prove evolution as you
believe it happened, then have at it and yes, absolute
proof is required.
Really now? Dave, why do you think all those scientists are lying?
This is what I'm talking about. Foolishness. This is
the best you've got.
Oh Dave, you know this is not true.
How can I know that, when insults is all you have,
which you prove by your own posts?
Nice try at misdirection. Dave, why do you think all those scientists are lying?
Science has evidence, and plenty of
it, just none that you will accept.
Claiming it again, doesn't make it so.
It is so Dave. Go to the peer reviewed scientific literature, and if that doesn't do it for you,
then go look for yourself.
I still would like to see some
explanation for why all those scientsts are lying about the evidence.
Once again, they claim mounds of evidence, but their
argument always boils down to majority opinion equals
truth.
99.9% is not *just* a majority Dave. It is an overwhelming indictment of the uselessness of
so-called "creation" science.
"May not a future generation well ask how any
scientist, in full possession of his intellectual
faculties and with adequate knowledge of information
theory could ever execute the feat of cognitive
acrobatics necessary to sincerely believe that a
(supremely complex) machine system of information,
storage and retrieval, servicing millions of cells,
diagnosing defects and then repairing them in a
teleonomic Von Newman manner, arose in randomness - the
antipole of information?" - Dr. A. E. Wilder-Smith
And this argument from ignorance of a dead pharmacy professor means exactly what Dave?
.
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