How To Respond To Persecution

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Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"Carl"
Date:	20 Jan 2008 01:16:11 PM
Object:	How To Respond To Persecution

With people like "rogue," "sheblew," "bob young," "Mark T" and other
unbelievers persecuting Christians and Christianity it seems needed to show
what the Bible says as to how Christians should respond to such persecution.
There are different degrees of persecution ranging from the nonsense that
occurs on Usenet all the way up to Christians being murdered for their
faith. God has informed all Christians that they would be persecuted for
believing in Him so it's not unexpected. Even false teachers and heretics
who teach false doctrine persecute Christians who believe in orthodox
Biblical doctrine. "Bible Bob," Steve Winter, and "Pastor" Dave Raymond are
prime examples of this. However by the fruit they produce we know them to be
just as false as the unbeliever.
So how should we Christians respond to such persecution? Paul Fritz's sermon
gives us Biblical instructions. Please take the time to read them and ask
God to help you abide by them. For me personally, it is a big help
spiritually.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
How To Respond To Persecution
by Paul Fritz
(John 15:20)
We live in a world that is loath to experience any persecution. Few seem
willing to endure hardship for the sake of righteousness, truth and enduring
freedom. No wonder CNN and the New York Times continually promotes
victimology in their daily reports. However, Jesus reminds Christians that
persecution is a part of abiding in Him.
Illustration: Richard Foster, in his Celebrration of Discipline, tells the
story of a medieval monk who was unjustly accused of various offenses. One
day the monk looked out the window and saw a dog biting and tearing a rug
hanging out to dry. God said to the monk,
"That is what is happening to your reputation. But if you can trust me, I
will care for you - reputation and all."
When our reputation is being bitten and torn, we need to trust God to
restore, repair and reconstruct.
Peter wrote, "But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is
commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for
you, leaving you an example, that you follow his steps. When they hurled
their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no
threat. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly." (I Pet
2:20,21,23)
John 15:20 "Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than
his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also."
Illustration: In ancient Rome, crowds by the tens of thousands would gather
in the Colosseum to watch as Christians were torn apart by wild animals.
Paul Rader, commenting on his visit to this famous landmark, said, "I stood
uncovered to the heavens above, where He sits for whom they gladly died, and
asked myself, 'Would I, could I, die for Him tonight to get this gospel to
the ends of the earth?'" Rader continued, "I prayed most fervently in that
Roman arena for the spirit of a martyr, and for the working of the Holy
Spirit in my heart, as He worked in Paul's heart when He brought him on his
handcuffed way to Rome." Those early Christians "lived on the threshold of
heaven, within a heartbeat of home, no possessions to hold them back."
Our Daily Bread.
1. PERSECUTION FOSTERS MATURITY - Realize that persecution of the Godly is a
normal part of the maturing process for every Christian. Jesus reminded us
that a part of following Him is to identify with Him even in His suffering.
"For consider Him who endured such suffering of sinners against Himself lest
you be worried and faint in your hearts." (Heb. 12:3)
The most mature Christians are those who are willing to continually take up
their cross and follow Christ regardless of the pain, shame or adversity.
Remember that God is working His will in ways that we cannot see or
appreciate at the time.
Illustration: One old hymn says, "Must Jesus bear the cross alone and all
the world go free. No there's a cross for everyone and there's a cross for
me!"
As we follow Jesus we will have to experience more of the pains, shame, and
hardships as we are called to carry our own cross and follow Him. God uses
people who have shown themselves to be faithful in little things and rewards
them proportionate to their endurance under hardships. (Luke 16:10)
2. DESPISING PERSECUTION IS SELF-INJURIOUS - Jesus said, "If they persecuted
Me, they will also persecute you. (John 15:20) By complaining or shirking
from hardships, persecutions, or criticisms we are in effect distancing
ourselves from identifying with all aspects of Christ.
We must remember that no servant is greater than His master, but every pupil
when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. (Luke 6:40)
A part of growing into a useful servant is enduring the suffering, shame,
and indignities that Jesus went through. This process is meant for our
benefit to produce greater maturity, godliness, and insight into His will
for our lives.
Job said, "When I am tried I will come forth as gold." We too need to have
this optimistic outlook for the stresses that we face as this will help us
triumph through the most difficult of circumstances.
3. YOU ARE NOT ALONE IN BEING PERSECUTED - Let remember the numerous
examples of people who endured persecutions for the sake of Christ
throughout history.
Heb. 11:35-38 says, "Others were tortured and refused to be released, so
that they might gain a better resurrection. Some faced jeers and flogging,
while still others were chained and put in prison. They were stoned; they
were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in
sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted, and mistreated. The world
was not worthy of them."
Isaiah was the most quoted prophet in the New Testament and yet he found
strength even though it meant that the Lord allowed him to be sawn in two.
These people were blessed by God through His enabling grace that was
sufficient for any trial. God used these great pioneers of the faith to lay
a trail for the rest of us to follow.
Many great Christians were humble people who when reviled they did not
retaliate in kind, but kept entrusting themselves to the Lord and His
greater purposes.
Allow God to work through you regardless of whether you can understand all
that is happening to you. When you look back on your hardships from heaven
you will fully understand why God allowed each and every trial to come into
your life.
When we look at life from an eternal perspectives it alleviates stress and
helps us focus on God's perspectives rather than our own limited-selfish
views.
4. BLESS THOSE WHO PERSECUTE YOU - Love your enemies and pray for those who
persecute you, Jesus said in Matt. 5:43,44. This may be one of the most
difficult commandments, but it is entirely within the realm of our God given
capacities.
Remember when Stephen prayed for those who were stoning him in the book of
Acts. Others declared that his face was like that of an angel because they
observed the power of God flowing through him. This is not an admission of
weakness, but rather of the strength that we are relying on through God's
sufficient grace. (2 Cor. 12:9,10)
5. FORGIVE YOUR PERSECUTORS - Jesus prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they
do not know what they are doing. (Luke 22:34) Jesus knew that many who
persecute the Godly are doing so in ignorance. We need to learn how to
forgive as Jesus forgave us. (Col. 3:13)
6. PRACTICE SELF-CONTROL - Be diligent, vigilant, and self-controlled when
you are undergoing persecution. Recognize that the devil prowls around us
like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour and will use anyone or
anything to cause us to stumble - even carnal Christians.
As I Peter 5:8-10 says, "Resist the devil, stand firm in the faith because
you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same
kind of sufferings. And the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal
glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will Himself
restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast."
This great promise should give every Godly person the incentive to persevere
in trials!
7. DO NOT FEAR - Do not fear persecution as much as fear not living up to
the potentials, callings, and levels of maturity that God wants you to
attain.
Paul said, in 2 Timothy 1:8,9 "Do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord
or be ashamed of me His prisoner. But join with me in the suffering for the
Gospel, by the power of God, who has saved us and called us to a holy life -
not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and
grace."
The greatest sins that most Christians make are not the sins of commission
like lying, stealing, and killing. Yet, the sins of omission - not living up
to the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, but merely settling for levels
of others expectations.
Jesus said, "If anyone will come after me, let him deny himself and take up
his cross daily and follow me. For whoever will save his life will lose it,
but whoever loses it for my sake will save it." (Luke 9:23,24)
8. PRAY FOR PERSECUTORS - Pray for those who are undergoing persecution.
That they will stand firm in their faith (I Pet. 5:8-10) That they will
forgive those who persecute them (Lk. 23:34) That they will not be fearful
of men, but trust God. (Rev. 2:10)
That they will not repay evil for evil, but will seek to live at peace with
everyone. (Rom. 12:17-21)
God will ultimately vindicate the righteous and allow them to experience the
victory that is in Christ Jesus. "In the world you will have tribulation but
be of good cheer for I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)
.

User: "terry"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	23 Jan 2008 10:48:59 PM

Sensi wrote in message <47974F0B.2080101@yahoo.com>...

terry wrote:

Sensi wrote in message ...

Sensi:
The Bible does not define Christian, if it did there would be no need

for

religions to compete with each other and everybody would be doing the

same

thing.

Sensi, surely you do not believe the above statement do you??? Of course
the Bible defines who is a Christian. And the reasons religions compete

because of man wanting to make the path to God what they desire it to be
without accountability to an objective truth offered in propositional

form.

(i.e. the Bible)

Sensi:
Your statement is true in a sense but we live our life
*outside* the bible.

Of course the essence of life is 'outside' of any proposition including the
Bible. However, it is the authority and standard of what Scriptures clearly
teach which defines whether or not our *life* is Christian or unbeliever.
Therefore, we do not get to truthfully define ourselves independently from
the revelation of God's Word. We certainly may make claims, but all our
claims will ultimately surrender themselves to the Lord's definition of
what and who we are. And again, He has not left us in the dark about the
parameters of who is and who is not a Christian regardless of what we may
'claim' to be.
You said the Bible defines who a

Christian is but you are also saying a Christian is defined
by accountability.
Being accountable means there are laws to follow...

No it doesn't. The biblical standard offers accountability so we can see
ourselves in a spiritual mirror in order to evaluate whether or not we have
been regenerated in spirit as one of God's children. Many people take the
N.T. scriptures and present them in a lawful manner which becomes
legalistic and Pharisaical and this is the leaven of the Pharisees which
Jesus warned against. A man can be pure outwardly by conformity to any
teaching, including N.T. teaching, and yet be full of death in the spirit.
Jesus came, not to make bad people good, or immoral people moral by
conformity to laws, BUT to make dead people alive! The bad and the immoral
will be taken care of when we become alive in Christ. Therefore, the
Scriptures are like a mirror to examine our own hearts so we will be free
from self deception and false doctrine. If we are truly alive in Christ,
the teachings of the N.T. are not outward laws to us, but now are living
standards which our heart *desires* to do in the liberty of spiritual
freedom we have in Jesus.

So it's not who you say you are it's what you do with what
you've been given.

"All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but
the Lord weigheth the spirits." (Pro. 16:2)

Sensi:
Yep, and we all have clean and unclean spirits that we *use*
in our lives.
Fruits of the spirit (love,forgiveness,mercy,grace) verses
unclean spirits.(vengeance,arrogance,spitefulness,etc.)

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but
the Lord pondereth the hearts." (Pro. 21:2)

Sensi:
Correct.

So the real question is, "Has God spoken to man in the Bible?" And if

one

answers that question in the affirmative, then they confess their
responsibility to stand where the Scriptures stand. If they answer the
question in the negative, they still are without excuse because they
violate the law of God written in every man's heart and reject the

internal

witness God has given to every man to 'know truth.'

Sensi:
It's the heart...it is not the bible. You can use the bible
to speak your mind or heart you can use the bible as a tool
to glean wisdom and knowledge for your heart, mind and soul
but it does not define you as a Christian. Your thoughts,
ideas, actions, deeds define you.

There is a confusion of thoughts here. I agree, our thoughts and actions
define what we are. However, the Bible defines what are the dispositions
and professions of Christians. Therefore, by examining my life with the
backdrop of God's Word I get to clearly see if my thoughts and actions
match God's definition of who are His children. In short, my actions define
me and the Bible defines or declares if 'I am' a Christian. If we fail to
make this distinction clearly and leave all definition up to 'me about me,'
then we slide down a slippery slope to self deception and confusion.

Christianity is only made complicated by those who desire to justify

their

sin and ungodliness while trying to appease their conscience with
platitudes toward God.

Sensi:
That is what I'm referring to as well. It comes from the
heart not the bible.

It comes from both, because without the Bible I could not know if my heart
is right with God or under a delusion. Man's heart is deceitful above all
things, says the Scriptures, and who can know it? Only the Holy Spirit can
clearly and perfectly reveal our hearts to ourselves and this revealing
will match what He has inspired in His Holy Writings. (the Bible) The Holy
Spirit and the Word agree! Therefore, Jesus could say with force, "My words
are spirit and they are life." (paraphrase)
In Christ,
Terry Ivy
.

User: "Mark T moi@home000whatever199"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	23 Jan 2008 04:19:49 PM

"terry" wrote:

it is the authority and standard of what Scriptures clearly
teach which defines whether or not our *life* is Christian or unbeliever.

......

without the Bible I could not know if my heart
is right with God or under a delusion.

How did Jesus' disciples know what was "Christian" or "right" after Jesus
died and before any of the New Testament was written? The same way we know
if we have no bible!
--
Quoting the Bible is NOT quoting God.
--
The Bible ...[is] ... a collection of human responses to God (very human,
some of them all too human), which we are at liberty to use in the process
of formulating our own individual, unique response to God. We don't do that
by imitating these responses slavishly. I mean God, if he exists, doesn't
want innumerable clones of the apostle Paul. He wants us to respond to him,
each of us in our own unique way. And we can use the Bible to do that, but
we don't do it by obeying it slavishly and blindly. - Peter Cameron
"Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 195
--
BIBLE - the Fundamentalist Golden Calf which comes in a Trew Kristyun
version that you can supersize with added fries (in Hell).
--
MY BLOG - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
MY SOUNDCLICK PAGE- download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
MEHSC HOMEPAGE - a satire on Homeskool.
http://mehsc.blogspot.com/
Professor Michelle S. Morris, Fizzix Lecturer & Fonix Tutor, Butter
Homeskool Uni.
.

User: "terry"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	24 Jan 2008 09:15:45 PM

Mark T wrote in message <4797be72@dnews.tpgi.com.au>...

"terry" wrote:

it is the authority and standard of what Scriptures clearly
teach which defines whether or not our *life* is Christian or

unbeliever.

.....

without the Bible I could not know if my heart
is right with God or under a delusion.

How did Jesus' disciples know what was "Christian" or "right" after Jesus
died and before any of the New Testament was written? The same way we

know

if we have no bible!

I could answer this or get my youngest son to answer this infantile
question, Mark. I see you are still stumbling in darkness and not realizing
you are tripping over the Cornerstone of Faith---Christ Jesus. It has been
sad over these 3 years to see someone in the twilight of physical life
continue into stupidity and madness. But, that is the result of one
refusing to bow before the Lord Jesus. You have chosen to reject who He is
and He has obviously judged you and poured upon you a darkened heart and
mind. We all get to see firsthand what it looks like when someone
'professes to be wise but has become a fool.' (Rom.1) You've become a clown
and a sad, miserable heretic.
BTW, for those who are seeking truth apart from Mark's ignorance, the
answer is the believers had the same testimony of the gospels as we do
because they had the living eyewitnesses present among them along with the
written Holy Scriptures of the O.T. The eyewitnesses were the living N.T.
gospels presenting the same truths which Mark rejects and mocks, but will
give an account to in the near future.
In Christ,
Terry Ivy
.

User: "Merlin"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	23 Jan 2008 03:02:56 PM

On Jan 23, 11:48=A0pm, "terry" <te...@desk.com> wrote:

It comes from both, because without the Bible I could not know if my heart=
is right with God or under a delusion.

this is sounds so sad.
find god, find god for real.
love until it hurts and find god.
figure out what jesus did right in jesus life and follow that.
do something to find the living father mother god.
it will cut through your fear, your confusion about your personal
authority
and give you a basis in personal experience on which to base you
heart's experience.
it is like saying, i am afraid to know god, for fear knowing god is
delusional.
it is not delusional. it can be real. and unless you begin to
experience the father mother god in your life,
you will have no reason to know god other than through literature.
the bible is a secret map, a key, a way shower.
unlock the non literal meanings of the stories and unlock a direction
and abiding relationship with god.

Man's heart is deceitful

then there is no hope is there?
man's heart is pure, man's mind is complicated
we need to be both, that is why we live in the world and don't have to
be a part of it.
the heart uses the mind to get what it needs in this life.
the heart soul what ever you want to call it.

above all
things, says the Scriptures, and who can know it?

you can, don't limit yourself. don't fall in the trap that humans are
lost,
find your way, find your message from god, find your encouragement,
don't stop cause the way is rough or not obvious. ask for help from
god.

Only the Holy Spirit can
clearly and perfectly reveal our hearts to ourselves and this revealing
will match what He has inspired in His Holy Writings.

why not meet this spirit then while in human form as jesus has done.
you have jesus as an exemple of a spirit in human form and what we can
do.
we can do great things the bible says, greater than jesus has done.
(the Bible)

The Holy
Spirit and the Word agree!

you can only say this when you have met both.

Therefore,

don't be logical, find god. don't be cute about your concepts of self
and divinity, be real about what jesus promises us we can do with
jesus love.

Jesus could say with force, "My words
are spirit and they are life." (paraphrase)

yet he never once forced it.
in love with the living gay jesus who taught us that through love
anyone of us can find the father mother god.
it don't make life easier if that is what you want. it don't make
life more obvious.
it just makes for more clarity in our lives and since that we are part
of the living course of human history as we grow back to our godhood.
that is jesus message, have you heard it yet?
merlin

In Christ,
Terry Ivy

User: "Sensi"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	27 Jan 2008 08:06:40 PM

Part 2.
Hope you had a safe trip!

So it's not who you say you are it's what you do with what
you've been given.

"All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but
the Lord weigheth the spirits." (Pro. 16:2)

Sensi:
Yep, and we all have clean and unclean spirits that we *use*
in our lives.
Fruits of the spirit (love,forgiveness,mercy,grace) verses
unclean spirits.(vengeance,arrogance,spitefulness,etc.)

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but
the Lord pondereth the hearts." (Pro. 21:2)

Sensi:
Correct.

So the real question is, "Has God spoken to man in the Bible?" And if

one

internal

witness God has given to every man to 'know truth.'

Sensi:
I'm not so sure that we get off scott free are you? There's
the issue of forgiveness but along with that comes the need
to learn. Electing ourselves as God's children is not the
same as carrying and doing Elect actions/deeds by Elect
fruits of the spirit. If you claim to be an elect child of
God then congratulations and my hats off to you for becoming
those elect fruits of the spirit that Christ himself was.
If you've learned everything about those fruits of the
spirit verses fruitlessness that just about makes you to
have perfect understanding along with perfect peace in your
heart.

Christianity is only made complicated by those who desire to justify

their

sin and ungodliness while trying to appease their conscience with
platitudes toward God.

Sensi:
That is what I'm referring to as well. It comes from the
heart not the bible.

Sensi:
Be ye as little children.. Little children don't usually
read, they just learn by experience and example. You don't
have to read a bible to know what's in your mind and heart.
The good of God is either there or it ain't.
If it ain't then it's available

In Christ,
Terry Ivy

User: "Sensi"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	23 Jan 2008 11:11:39 PM

terry wrote:

Sensi wrote in message <47974F0B.2080101@yahoo.com>...

terry wrote:

Sensi wrote in message ...

Sensi:
The Bible does not define Christian, if it did there would be no need

for

religions to compete with each other and everybody would be doing the

same

thing.

Sensi, surely you do not believe the above statement do you??? Of course
the Bible defines who is a Christian. And the reasons religions compete

because of man wanting to make the path to God what they desire it to be
without accountability to an objective truth offered in propositional

form.

(i.e. the Bible)

Sensi:
Your statement is true in a sense but we live our life
*outside* the bible.

Christian is but you are also saying a Christian is defined
by accountability.
Being accountable means there are laws to follow...

Sensi:
I'm referring to the laws of nature and the teachings of
Christ Jesus.
People should do good because it's the *right* thing to do.
Why the law of reap what you sow if it's not a truth and
does not apply to Christians? Why the law of 'Do unto
others" if it's not going to have an effect on you and your
neighbor?
We practice life from the inside out. I see what you're
saying about being Pharisaical. It's when you read words,
preach words but don't practice. Did Jesus leave us any
practice material?
Is it hidden in a book or is it hidden in our hearts?

Jesus came, not to make bad people good, or immoral people moral by
conformity to laws, BUT to make dead people alive! The bad and the immoral
will be taken care of when we become alive in Christ. Therefore, the
Scriptures are like a mirror to examine our own hearts so we will be free
from self deception and false doctrine. If we are truly alive in Christ,
the teachings of the N.T. are not outward laws to us, but now are living
standards which our heart *desires* to do in the liberty of spiritual
freedom we have in Jesus.

Sensi:
I wasn't referring to any NT laws. And I do understand about
making dead people ALIVE.
These are things of the heart.
(Dead)
Living in fear is a *miserable* way of life. Fear
paralyzes..... Fear of sin, fear of life,fear the devil,
fear the preacher, fear the neighbor, fear money, fear the
enemy, fear famine, fear war, fear the teacher, fear the
economy. Fear of weeping and gnashing of teeth
God is revengeful.
This is the life Christ Jesus said is sinful and dead..
*Outside in.*
Repent of this!
If we sow this, we reap all by the nature of that law.
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
(Living)
Living lightheartedly, live making mistakes, forgive
thyself, thy neighbor. Live for learning,live to understand
life. Live & love to learn, learn to make mistakes and love
to learn from them. Live & love to enjoy life, live & love
for your soul, live to Love God.
Give God the glory for a *WELL* lived life as He provides
the spirit of which you have lived in.
If we sow this we reap it, all by the generosity of a Good
Father..
~^~^~^~~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
This is the life Christ Jesus lived from HIS HEART.
*Inside* out.
The big bad question....
Did Jesus come to teach about the two sides of life that
both *dwell* in us and tell us to *practice* forgiveness,
mercy, grace as our Father has done for us shown through
Jesus which if *practiced* looks much like *Living* a good
decent life all provided by a Loving Living God.
Live this kind of life and you're saved from having to
suffer the misery man tries to expand on.
I'am humbled by the many blessings, the provisions and the
opportunities.
Believe in me Jesus Christ that I've come to show you the
way..... He did this for ME and YOU.
Pick up your cross and follow......... Faith is here!
OR
Did Jesus come with no other purpose but to teach people to
remain *ignorant* of the laws of nature. That we are wicked
sinners incapable of doing good and we must believe we
cannot do good. We must depend on his life and death rather
than live your own spiritual life and death. Don't practice
forgiveness, grace or mercy. That is God's duty, not ours.
He died on the cross so you could have everlasting life but
in the meantime you're a miserable sinner until you get to
heaven.....
pick up your cross and follow.....
********************************************************
LOL, I really went all out didn't I?
But I did speak from my heart.
I must leave the rest for a later date. It's past my bedtime.
Thanks!
Love,
Sensi

So it's not who you say you are it's what you do with what
you've been given.

"All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but
the Lord weigheth the spirits." (Pro. 16:2)

Sensi:
Yep, and we all have clean and unclean spirits that we *use*
in our lives.
Fruits of the spirit (love,forgiveness,mercy,grace) verses
unclean spirits.(vengeance,arrogance,spitefulness,etc.)

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but
the Lord pondereth the hearts." (Pro. 21:2)

Sensi:
Correct.

So the real question is, "Has God spoken to man in the Bible?" And if

one

internal

witness God has given to every man to 'know truth.'

Christianity is only made complicated by those who desire to justify

their

sin and ungodliness while trying to appease their conscience with
platitudes toward God.

Sensi:
That is what I'm referring to as well. It comes from the
heart not the bible.

User: "terry"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	24 Jan 2008 09:18:11 PM

Sensi,
I'll wait until you finish your response before futher discussion. It will
be a while as I am traveling to South Carolina for a few days. I hope you
got your rest. Take care....
In Christ,
Terry Ivy
.

User: "Sensi"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	23 Jan 2008 08:30:52 AM

terry wrote:
A note:
My server doesn't allow that many crosspost so I had to cut
some out.
Thanks,
Sensi
.

User: "NOSPAM nospam@nospam"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	23 Jan 2008 10:46:01 AM

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:36:43 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

I don't let every Tom ***** and Harry define "Christian". The Bible
defines "Christian."

One who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ.

That sure lets 'you' out, liar-johnnie.
.

User: "walksalone"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	22 Jan 2008 05:08:59 AM

john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
news:pgoap3dm55oupctlck2ujr0b88uokkgm18@4ax.com wanted to play the great
pretender, and elected the xian newsgroups for his private stage.
AVR training session
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From: john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: How To Respond To Persecution
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:29:00 -0800
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On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:34:03 -0600, "Sensi" <sensi4sight@home.net>
wrote:

"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:p6i8p3dq4f3b1fuk9e0hondc2htkjnc89q@4ax.com...

x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:06:02 -0600, "Sensi" <sensi4sight@home.net>
wrote:

"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:uuu7p3df29rk7qe60442gvi7vj884sdisk@4ax.com...

x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:44:26 -0600, "Sensi" <sensi4sight@home.net>
wrote:

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn090s$f5e$1@news.utelfla.com...

snip

But you lose that respect if that Christian "has an off day" in
your
company.

Sensi:
The word "Christian" has many meanings

Not true.

Very true, just because you did not understand that fails
to falsify the observation.

and is required many actions. Good

actions.

So you now call Jesus a liar. The thief who died beside Him was
told he was going to Heaven (Greek "Paradise") MERELY for expressing
BELIEF.

Paradise is not Greek, it's Persian. There was no thief dying beside
your missing Messiah, Roman law did not permit crucifixion except for
three crimes. Theft is not one of them. Of course, you want to hear
that because, it verifies the fact that, you have no Messiah. You have
been a soccer all of your life.

If we must do good works, that thief is today roasting.

He had to exist, historically that is not possible. Of course, you're
free to claim otherwise.

If you're with your Christian friend-- let's say-- and he gets a
phone call on his cell phone that his wife has just been taken to
the hospital from a car crash-- but she's DOA (Dead on Arrival),
and he falls apart, and starts cursing and crying and pounding his
fist on the table.
You lose all respect for him because he doesn't walk around with
plaster boots on (a "plaster saint.")

Sensi:
You're assuming I would react that way when it is you planting that
reaction of which is not how I would react.

I made up a scenario to make a point. You simply aren't giving an
inch to allow me to make a point.

You had no point, you attempted to divert the conversation into your
version of what the other person would have done in your shoes.

It's difficult to communicate with people who are always right (like
you)

What you think people can't communicate once you join the conversation.
You don't know how, you assume you are right and they are supposed to
shut up and listen to you in state yes John, you're just so smart. It
doesn't work that way, the usual response is no John, you're quite wrong
again.

Snip

Sensi:
So there really is *NO* need to persecute those who are not of the
baptist or other religion

You would need then to define "persecute."

Why, you'd never understand the definition. Think of it like this,
treating others like you claim to be treated.

I see more persecution of Christians (me for one) every day than I
see Christians persecuting non-believers.

When was the last time a law was passed requiring any other mythology
than yours to hold public office. That's a minor example. Blue laws or
at perfect example, the statue it against blasphemy being on the books in
Ohio is another good example. Of course, this would require you to learn
things, things that might not agree with your bizarre mythology.
Snip

Yep! Learn the hard way sometimes. *Learning* is the ultimate truth!

No. God and faith in Him is The Ultimate Truth.

How would you know, it's not as if you understand what you're talking
about.

Often times Christians preach fear, hate and are inconsiderate to
people who they *think* are not accepted in the fold, they often quote
bible verses that imply others are being mean and nasty when it's the
Christians who are mean and nasty.
Being that this post is how to respond to persecution I'm saying these
kind of Christians (mean and nasty) are the ones who persecute others
and therefore they in return get what they *give.*

You are back to judging, so I will leave you.

That makes him a lucky fellow.

john w

snip
which wannabe this time Johnnie, the poser without a clue about what the
Greek Testaments really say because he cannot read them in context, but
who is targeted willing to tell everybody else what he thinks they say.
And because it's what he thinks, that must be the truth of the matter.
walksalone who can except the Johnnie feels persecuted, but then, he goes
out of his way to earn that imagined persecution. Without it, he might
not a complete any martyr points� and be denied access to his crown of
stars in heaven�.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "walksalone"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	21 Jan 2008 03:06:24 AM

john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
news:p6i8p3dq4f3b1fuk9e0hondc2htkjnc89q@4ax.com in a burst of generosity
seldom seen on Usenet, decided to share his misconceptions with everybody
else.
From: john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups:
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tecostal,free.christians
Subject: Re: How To Respond To Persecution
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:35:49 -0800
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On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:06:02 -0600, "Sensi" <sensi4sight@home.net>
wrote:

"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:uuu7p3df29rk7qe60442gvi7vj884sdisk@4ax.com...

x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:44:26 -0600, "Sensi" <sensi4sight@home.net>
wrote:

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn090s$f5e$1@news.utelfla.com...

snip

Turn around is fair play!

"FAir enough."

So, have you found ANY good Christians in your many years walking
this planet?

Snsi:
Yep, and I have great respect for Christians that
" DO GOOD."

But you lose that respect if that Christian "has an off day" in your
company.

That's your strawman, want to burn it anytime soon?

If you're with your Christian friend-- let's say-- and he gets a
phone call on his cell phone that his wife has just been taken to the
hospital from a car crash-- but she's DOA (Dead on Arrival),
and he falls apart, and starts cursing and crying and pounding his
fist on the table.
You lose all respect for him because he doesn't walk around with
plaster boots on (a "plaster saint.")

Now why would he do that? Do you think he acts like you do.

I think people (perhaps you) tend to forget (too conveniently?)
that
among other things, Christians are FIRST

human beings

Sensi:
As is every person. It's when Christians set themselves above all
other human beings as some kind of chosen people that are not any
different than their *neighbors.*

Many have not been taught correctly. I had to find out certain
things for myself.

And you still haven't got them right.

Our God requires each of us to be a servant. We are to first serve
God; we are to next serve our fellow man.

That is your interpolation, and is not biblically supported. Either in
the Hebrew Bible or the Greek Testament's. You fail to serve your god or
your fellow man, and yet you go to tell others this is what they are
supposed to do according to you.

Jesus said, "How can you love God, who you have never seen, if you
REFUSE To love your neighbor, who you see every day?"

Chapter and verse for that please. Given your ability to misinterpret
almost everything in writing, I question your interpolation.

Many don't like the role of "servant", and they -- instead-- want to
RULE.

That explains your conduct then.

They are simply young, unschooled Christians, and they need to learn
and grow.

So when are you going to start the process?

with flaws and faults and frailties.

Sensi:
I don't mind the flaws, faults and frailties.

I believe you have said you DO.

And as usual, you're in a state confusion and denial. Of course, only
you, according to you, know what the other person really means.
Nevermind what they said.

Those of us (including me) who are frail and full of flaws, may not
serve you to your liking with lots of "Good deeds."

It's called using your claimed frailties for an excuse for your conduct.
Supposedly, a xian with real faith can overcome their frailties. It says
so in the owner's manual. You would call them the New Testament, but
they are known as the Greek Testament's. Writings in direct violation of
the command of yahweh. Writings that supposedly do not apply to xians.

That's just it! We *all* have them but when you persecute others for
having them

???? I don't recall ever persecuting anyone.

Of course you don't, you simply pretend to have the right to chastise
everyone in the names of your gods.

We ARE to encourage one another. Sometimes, that "encouragement" can
seem a bit harsh.

Abrasive you mean. Abrasive without cause.

they will in return persecute you as well. So it's not persecution for

*doing good.* That is what I was pointing out.

But who decides who is "doing good?" Sounds like you have a very
definite idea of what this "doing good" stuff is all about.

For the majority of the human race, doing good is not a hard concept. In
your case it is because doing good, is only what makes you feel good.

And sounds like you want to be on the front of the "receiving good
deeds" line.

Not everybody wants to be a deadbeat like you.

???

Of course you're confused, the other person is not agreeing with you
automatically.

You perhaps are not aware that Paul commented, "do the best you can
to be at peace with everyone." (I believe he knew that some people
are not going to allow us to "be at peace."

Sensi:
You can have as much peace as you desire.

Not true. I am "persecuted" for my beliefs every day. I am
persecuted in here by people who don't believe I "live up" to the
standard, and I am persecuted out there in the world.

You are persecuted only in your own eyes. You're treated as you treat
others and you do not like it. Yet, you're going to continue to attempt
to browbeat and snow everybody in sight.

No one is stopping you from being

peaceful. The way I see it it is your own *thoughts* and ideas that
won't let you be peaceful.

Then you would be wrong.

He is quite correct. Of course this requires you to have a basic
understanding of concepts that are alien to you. Concept as, courtesy to
others that you may not agree with. Not assuming you are always correct.
Making an effort to understand a different person's point of view. The
social oils that you claim to be totally unfamiliar with.

We do not live in a peaceful world.

At large, we do. However, as long as we have people like you, there will
be mistrust and hatred of others. This guarantees that locally, peace
may not be available. Of course, it also guarantees in your case, you
will be the center of attention.

We each must carve out a place where we can have "peace" if only for
a time.

And you have never found it because you don't want it.

You also seem to want to point a finger at all those Christians who
don't "turn the cheek", who don't practice "The Golden Rule"

Sensi:
The original question was "How to respond to Persecution." I gave my
opinion and you were not included so scratch that I was persecuting
you personally or anyone else for that matter..

"ok."

I perhaps didn't like how you worded your comment.

Has nothing to do with reading comprehension. Has a lot to do with your
naturally nasty disposition.

as you see it.

How about rather than you practicing "tit for tat" as you
suggested,
you find a Christian and show him how to be nice.

Sensi:
In response to the question *How to Respond to Persecution.* First of
all I
wasn't talking to you personally, so why would you tell me to find a
Christian and show him how to be nice when you could be nice yourself
rather than feeling like you have a personal grudge as if I was
talking *about* you when I don't even know you.

Pardon me for not wording MY point to your liking. You made a point
about too many who call themselves Christians who "don't do good."
And who "look down on others."

And it hit home because, you realize you are looking in a mirror.

I made a comment that perhaps you could find a Christian who is
"falling short" in your estimation, and "give him a lesson" in being
nice, as you see it.

Why would he do that, why would he take it upon himself to try and change
the life of somebody else in any way.

I didn't take your comment "personally." And you don't need to feel
personally ATTACKED.

You're posting says you did. And you did attack him. But of course, it
was one of your more civil attempts.

We can all learn. (even you)

Sensi:
I have no problem with needing to learn.

Bottom line: it's ALWAYS easier to tell someone else to get THEIR
act together, than for us to adjust ourselves!

Sensi:
Well, now that sounds about right.

And-- as (I believe) we have in the past, we have inched one step
closer!

One thing I have learned over the years, it's ALWAYS easier to tell
your neighbor how to get HIS act together than it is to clean up your
own back yard!

You are living evidence of that.

I suggest that we all focus our attention on our back yards, and
leave our neighbor in peace.

You are leaving Usenet then?

God bless!

You still think you have a pet god then. Your Satan would be so proud of
you. But then, he is one of your gods. People tend to emulate there
heroes.

john w

which wannabe this time Johnnie, the one that is not mind pretending to
be the man he never can be.
walksalone accepts the Johnnie cannot see himself as others do, after
all, he is god, if his posting history is to be believed. And if he is
not god, he speaks for god. Of course, it might be simply a case of
extreme narcissism. After all, he would be the last to recognize that.
And now, another typical episode from Saint John the liar� theater�.
From: jimbob johnson <jimbob_98...@yahoo.com>
Subject: "Hostess Vacations'
Date: 2000/09/30
Message-ID: <akjdts8ni3uc4k7pqdjvdf4nomhiqetk6q@4ax.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
00:42:53 CDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
MIME-Version: 1.0
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 00:42:53 CDT
Newsgroups: alt.sex.brothels
Can somebody please help me? I am looking for a listing of vacation
packages that come complete with "a beautiful travel
companion/date"(/fuckslut).
I know I have seen several agencies advertise trips to exotic
locations (Asia and Europe) complete with a "model/companion" who
travels with you for "whatever purposes you require", including,
STATED VERY EXPLICITLY, fucking!
The package states equally clearly that you are going to exotic
locations where you will be up to your nose in available pussies. But
should none of the babes make your penis point north, the female you
are traveling with will drop her drawers with little/no encouragement
other than a "it's bedtime!" remark.
Has anyone else seen these "fuckslut hosted vacations" advertisements
for the rich? I am about to be in the money, and I was gonna take off
a couple of weeks to go traveling with a companion who is "guaranteed
*****." (I am 53 and single, with no prospects, so I thought I'd take
my ***** with me, if I can find one / several of these services.
Help?
Thanks! in advance
john
jimbob_98...@yahoo.com
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: " ::: good news runner :::"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 09:06:43 PM

x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:44:26 -0600, "Sensi" <sensi4sight@home.net>
wrote:
� 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn090s$f5e$1@news.utelfla.com...

"But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is
commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ
suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in
his steps." (1 Peter 2:20, 21)

Take this to heart, my Christian brethren.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/

Sensi:
Hi Carl,
In my view most generally it's the Christians that persecute other
people and what they do to others comes back to them in return..
Matthew 7:2..

You know that *reap what you sow.* that Christ talked about? Now
with that being said have you noticed that many times Christians
read scripture
as a means to persecute and put other people down?
Especially people who share different religious views.

You gave a verse...if you suffer for *doing good.*
Now think about "doing good."
What is good?
Do you do unto others as you would have them do unto you?
If you did and treated them with kindness, respect and honored them
as already forgiven by God then they would see the Good of God in
you.
If you went after them with a vengeance and called them heretics,
liars, hypocrites, false teachers and such. What could you expect?

Turn around is fair play!

"FAir enough."

So, have you found ANY good Christians in your many years walking
this planet?

I think people (perhaps you) tend to forget (too conveniently?) that
among other things, Christians are FIRST

human beings

with flaws and faults and frailties.

You perhaps are not aware that Paul commented, "do the best you can to
be at peace with everyone." (I believe he knew that some people are
not going to allow us to "be at peace."

You also seem to want to point a finger at all those Christians who
don't "turn the cheek", who don't practice "The Golden Rule"

as you see it.

How about rather than you practicing "tit for tat" as you suggested,
you find a Christian and show him how to be nice.

We can all learn. (even you)

Bottom line: it's ALWAYS easier to tell someone else to get THEIR
act together, than for us to adjust ourselves!

john w

John, of course it is nonsense what Sensi airs out. I am thinking of
the sermon I heard this morning. It was about Abraham, and that he was
promised so much, yet he decided to go his own ways to Egypt, where he
told the Pharaoh that his wife was his sister, because he feared being
killed because he had such a beautiful wife. The Pharaoh married his
wife, but things went wrong, and so he accused Abraham of that, and that
he had not told him the truth about his wife. Then he kicked him out of
the land, with all of his cattle and everything. Abraham was rich, but
had to go back to the place God had foreseen for him, though there was
nothing to eat. Abraham was a liar - what would he have deserved? Yet
God guided him back to the land he had chosen, and blessed him richly.
God is so good to us. If we reaped what we sowed, we would all get death
for our failures. But Jesus set us free!
Abram passed through the land to the place of Shechem, to the oak of
Moreh. The Canaanite was then in the land. Yahweh appeared to Abram, and
said, "I will give this land to your seed." He built an altar there to
Yahweh, who appeared to him. He left from there to the mountain on the
east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, having Bethel on the west, and Ai
on the east. There he built an altar to Yahweh, and called on the name
of Yahweh. Abram traveled, going on still toward the South. There was a
famine in the land. Abram went down into Egypt to live as a foreigner
there, for the famine was sore in the land. It happened, when he was
come near to enter into Egypt, that he said to Sarai his wife, "See now,
I know that you are a beautiful woman to look on. It will happen, when
the Egyptians will see you, that they will say, 'This is his wife.' They
will kill me, but they will save you alive. Please say that you are my
sister, that it may be well with me for your sake, and that my soul may
live because of you." It happened that when Abram had come into Egypt,
the Egyptians saw that the woman was very beautiful. The princes of
Pharaoh saw her, and praised her to Pharaoh; and the woman was taken
into Pharaoh's house. He dealt well with Abram for her sake. He had
sheep, and oxen, and male donkeys, and men-servants, and maid-servants,
and female donkeys, and camels. Yahweh plagued Pharaoh and his house
with great plagues because of Sarai, Abram's wife. Pharaoh called Abram,
and said, "What is this that you have done to me? Why didn't you tell me
that she was your wife? Why did you say, 'She is my sister,' so that I
took her to be my wife? Now therefore, see your wife, take her, and go
your way." Pharaoh gave men charge concerning him: and they brought him
on the way, and his wife, and all that he had.
Abram went up out of Egypt: he, his wife, all that he had, and Lot with
him, into the South. Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in
gold. He went on his journeys from the South even to Bethel, to the
place where his tent had been at the beginning, between Bethel and Ai,
to the place of the altar, which he had made there at the first. There
Abram called on the name of Yahweh. // (Genesis 12:6-20 and 13:1-4 WEB)
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
..

Thanks,
Sensi

User: "NOSPAM nospam@nospam"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 11:29:18 PM

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:00:24 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

I think people (perhaps you) tend to forget (too conveniently?) that
among other things, Christians are FIRST

human beings

with flaws and faults and frailties.

What the hell does that make 'you' then?
.

User: "john w"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	21 Jan 2008 01:36:44 AM

x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 00:29:18 -0500, NOSPAM <nospam@nospam> wrote:
� 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:00:24 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

I think people (perhaps you) tend to forget (too conveniently?) that
among other things, Christians are FIRST

human beings

with flaws and faults and frailties.

What the hell does that make 'you' then?

^ ^ ^ Awwwwwwwwwwwwww!
You just used a bad word!
:-(
.

User: "walksalone"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	21 Jan 2008 03:22:09 AM

john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
news:uuu7p3df29rk7qe60442gvi7vj884sdisk@4ax.com
wanted everyone to know, he can tap dance with the best of them, and he
does not object to doing so in front of a semi-captive audience
From: john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.christianlife,a
lt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christi
an.biblestudy,alt.religion.christian.methodist,alt.religion.christian.pen
tecostal,free.christians
Subject: Re: How To Respond To Persecution
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:00:24 -0800
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On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:44:26 -0600, "Sensi" <sensi4sight@home.net>
wrote:

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn090s$f5e$1@news.utelfla.com...

A concept found in all societies that are viable. The wording varies
from society to society, but the concept is not unique to the xian myth.

If you did and treated them with kindness, respect and honored them as
already forgiven by God then they would see the Good of God in you.

Not really, they would see a decent human being. If they were educated
beyond the norm, they would see a decent human who is decent in spite of
being xian. They would see the evidence for the saying that with or
without gods, you will have good people and you will have bad people.

If you went after them with a vengeance and called them heretics,
liars, hypocrites, false teachers and such. What could you expect?

That would take all the fun out of it if you couldn't do that.

Turn around is fair play!

"FAir enough."
So, have you found ANY good Christians in your many years walking
this planet?

Unlike you, I myself have encountered many decent xians. One all of the
things I've noticed about them. Their faith was strong enough that they
did not have to go around telling anybody else how good a xian they were,
or how the other people needed to get right with their Christs.
Of course, I have also encountered xians like you, which negates the good
that decent xian's do. It only takes one of you to counter the decency
of a hundred good xians.

I think people (perhaps you) tend to forget (too conveniently?) that
among other things, Christians are FIRST
human beings
with flaws and faults and frailties.

Did you mean to say first of all, oh master wordsmith? It's easy to
forget your� dealing with a human being when they act like a pompous *****,
in case you didn't catch the reference, when they are acting like you.
Thing is, xians are supposedly turned into people that are bigger and
better than they used to be. In reality, they just got a glossy coat of
paint.

You perhaps are not aware that Paul commented, "do the best you can to
be at peace with everyone." (I believe he knew that some people are
not going to allow us to "be at peace."

Is that your interpolation? Given your penchant for twisting passages
until they say what you what you want them to mean, one has to ask.

You also seem to want to point a finger at all those Christians who
don't "turn the cheek", who don't practice "The Golden Rule"
as you see it.

Assuming you have not screwed up the attributes again, when it comes to
finger-pointing, it's hard to imagine anybody else could be ahead of you.

How about rather than you practicing "tit for tat" as you suggested,
you find a Christian and show him how to be nice.

It's not what he suggested, it's what your Greek Testaments say will
happen.

We can all learn. (even you)

Apparently you can't.

Bottom line: it's ALWAYS easier to tell someone else to get THEIR
act together, than for us to adjust ourselves!

In your case, that's obvious.

john w

which wannabe this time Johnnie, the snotty nosed little brown noser
could only pretend to present an argument from an ethical superiority he
does not have. Definitive statement Johnnie, no question mark required.
walksalone who is not a little surprised that Johnnie would pretend that
the fault belongs to the other people and will assume the other person
cannot possibly be xian. Myself, I do not know what the other person is
other than human. But as usual, when anybody brings up valid points
about the conduct of xians, especially those like Johnnie, he goes into a
tap dance session. It doesn't change the fact, you will reap what you
sow. In Johnny's case, he has reaped so much for what he has sown, that
everyone is willing to wait on him hand and foot. The back of the hand
and the bottom of the foot, Irish style.
.

User: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 02:36:58 PM

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn090s$f5e$1@news.utelfla.com...

carl, that's just more ***** ramblings from superstitious cave dwellers
and goat fuckers
why do you keep posting horseshit from superstitous cave dwellers from a
couple of thousand years ago?
why hasn't your ALL-POWERFUL sly pixie said anything NEW LATELY?
.

User: "bob young"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 11:35:01 PM

Carl wrote:

'YOUR' Bretheren? !!!!
Who says religion is not for the arrogant?

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/

User: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 01:50:39 PM

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn0885$eib$1@news.utelfla.com...

Jesus said:
"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" (Matthew 5:44)

Take this to heart, my Christian brethren.

that wasn't jesus you dumbass retard, that was just the ***** ramblings
of some superstitious cave dwellers and goat fuckers
.

User: "Jayne Cobb"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 04:30:46 PM

On Jan 20, 11:16=A0am, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:

With people like "rogue," "sheblew," "bob young," "Mark T" and other
unbelievers persecuting Christians and Christianity

None of these people are persecuting Christians or Christianity. If
you can't understand the difference then visit China, North Korea, and
Iran.
JC
.

User: "Non scrivetemi"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 05:21:16 PM

On Sun 20 Jan 2008 "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:

unbelievers persecuting Christians and Christianity it seems needed to show

what the Bible says as to how Christians should respond to such persecution.

Luke 19:27

.

User: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 05:49:30 PM

""Non scrivetemi"" <nonscrivetemi@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info> wrote in
message news:cf12f75ccbd6b773c536df66959fc292@pboxmix.winstonsmith.info...

On Sun 20 Jan 2008 "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:

unbelievers persecuting Christians and Christianity it seems needed to
show

what the Bible says as to how Christians should respond to such
persecution.

Luke 19:27

that's just more ***** ramblings from superstitious cave dwellers and
goat fuckers
hasn't your god said anything NEW lately?
.

User: "Anonymous"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 07:05:29 PM

On Sun 20 Jan 2008 "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:

unbelievers persecuting Christians and Christianity it seems needed to show

what the Bible says as to how Christians should respond to such persecution.

Luke 19:27

.

User: "Non scrivetemi"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 07:28:02 PM

On Sun 20 Jan 2008 "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:

unbelievers persecuting Christians and Christianity it seems needed to show

what the Bible says as to how Christians should respond to such persecution.

Luke 19:27

.

User: "terry"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	21 Jan 2008 09:47:59 PM

Verbal insults on newsnet hardly qualifies as persecution. At the most it
is silly attacks by the mocking and mentally disturbed who hide behind
keyboards feeling all proud and important with their little packaged
responses. Baby stuff.
Persecution involves much more than this. It involves life threatening
accusations by those who are present to carry out the threat. Like being
warning by KKK members that you are going to be stabbed for having an
ethnically mixed fellowship, or someone under restorative church discipline
coming to shoot you with a pistol (only to be held back by the Holy
Spirit), or being called 'of the devil' from local liberal pastors because
you believe in the final authority of God's Word on all matters of faith
and doctrine......BUT newsnet being persecution, I think not!!
In Christ,
Terry Ivy
.

User: ""
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	21 Jan 2008 12:52:09 PM

On Jan 21, 10:47 pm, "terry" <te...@desk.com> wrote:

coming to shoot you with a pistol (only to be held back by the Holy
Spirit), or being called 'of the devil' from local liberal pastors because=
you believe in the final authority of God's Word on all matters of faith
and doctrine......BUT newsnet being persecution, I think not!!

In Christ,
Terry Ivy

I will have to disagree. Biblically speaking, persecution comes in
many forms and at many levels of intensity up to and including death.
It does not always have to include life threatening situations. And
according to scripture, being insulted by atheists, heretics,
nonbelievers, mockers of God, etc. is indeed a form of persecution.
Here are some formal definition from scholarly Christian sources:
PERSECUTION
It would take different forms, ranging through every possible variety,
from false accusation to the infliction of death, beyond which, He
pointed out (Matt 10:28; Luke 12:4), persecutors are unable to go. The
methods of persecution which were employed by the Jews, and also by
the heathen against the followers of Christ, were such as these: (1)
Men would revile them and would say all manner of evil against them
falsely, for Christ's sake (Matt 5:11). (2) Contempt and
disparagement: "Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a
demon?" (John 8:48); "If they have called the master of the house
Beelzebub, how much more them of his household!" (Matt 10:25). (3)
Being, solely on account of their loyalty to Christ, forcibly
separated from the company and the society of others, and expelled
from the synagogues or other assemblies for the worship of God:
"Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate
you from their company, and reproach you, and cast out your name as
evil, for the Son of man's sake" (Luke 6:22); "They shall put you out
of the synagogues" (John 16:2). (4) Illegal arrest and spoliation of
goods, and death itself.
All these various methods, used by the persecutor, were foretold, and
all came to pass. It was the fear of apprehension and death that led
the eleven disciples to forsake Jesus in Gethsemane and to flee for
their lives. Jesus often forewarned them of the severity of the
persecution which they would need to encounter if they were loyal to
Him: "The hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you shall think that he
offereth service unto God" (John 16:2); "I send unto you prophets ....
some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye
scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city" (Matt
23:34).
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia)
Persecution is any pain or affliction which a person designedly
inflicts upon another. In its variability it is threefold:
1) Mental, when the spirit of a man rises up and malignantly opposes
another;
2) Verbal, when men give hard words and deal in uncharitable censures;
3) Actual or open by the hand; such as the dragging of innocent
persons before the civil tribunal.
In its more restricted sense, persecution for conscience' sake
concerns us here only in so far as it has occurred within the Church,
or the Church has been the guilty, party. The Church of Christ, in her
purity, knows nothing of intolerance, and therefore can never be
guilty of persecution. Indeed, the unlawfulness of persecution for
conscience' sake, under the New-Testament dispensation, must appear
plain to every one that possesses the least degree of Christian
thought or feeling, "To banish, imprison, plunder, starve, hang, and
burn men for religion," says the shrewd Jortin, "is not the Gospel of
Christ; it is the Gospel of the devil. Where persecution begins,
Christianity ends. Christ never used anything that looked like force
or violence except once; and that was to drive bad men out of the
Temple, and not to drive them in." Yet would we not overlook that true
religion is essentially aggressive and intolerant of error, inasmuch
as it "earnestly contends for the faith," and therefore abhors
indifferentism and syncretism, believing that their true source is not
faith and charity, but the very opposite of these, Laodicean
lukewarmness and tacit infidelity. Toleration of error on the part of
the Church would render useless God's revelation of truth, would make
God the abettor of error -- would either destroy the Church as a
society of believers, or contradict the divine order which establishes
it as the way of salvation. But the Church as such uses only spiritual
weapons -- the earnestness of entreaty, the force of prayer, the
terrors of conscience, the powers of the Gospel. Its punishments, too,
are entirely spiritual censures, and the different degrees of
excommunication. This is shown from the nature of religion in general
and the spirit of Christianity in particular; from the constitution of
the Church as a spiritual body; from the tenor of Scripture, which
explains the compulsion of Luke 14:23 as being spiritual compulsion
only; from Paul's language to Timothy, as 2 Tim 2:24, etc. (see Samuel
Clarke's Sermons against Persecution for Religion, Serm. 1, p. 659),
and from the fathers (see Bp. Taylor's Liberty of Prophesying, =A7 14).
For these very reasons, however, all temporal penalties inflicted by
the Church as a spiritual body must be classed as persecution; for
such penalties can be meted out only by a power either usurped or
wrongfully given. The Church, being a spiritual society, has no power