How To Respond To Persecution

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Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"Carl"
Date:	20 Jan 2008 01:16:11 PM
Object:	How To Respond To Persecution

With people like "rogue," "sheblew," "bob young," "Mark T" and other
unbelievers persecuting Christians and Christianity it seems needed to show
what the Bible says as to how Christians should respond to such persecution.
There are different degrees of persecution ranging from the nonsense that
occurs on Usenet all the way up to Christians being murdered for their
faith. God has informed all Christians that they would be persecuted for
believing in Him so it's not unexpected. Even false teachers and heretics
who teach false doctrine persecute Christians who believe in orthodox
Biblical doctrine. "Bible Bob," Steve Winter, and "Pastor" Dave Raymond are
prime examples of this. However by the fruit they produce we know them to be
just as false as the unbeliever.
So how should we Christians respond to such persecution? Paul Fritz's sermon
gives us Biblical instructions. Please take the time to read them and ask
God to help you abide by them. For me personally, it is a big help
spiritually.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
How To Respond To Persecution
by Paul Fritz
(John 15:20)
We live in a world that is loath to experience any persecution. Few seem
willing to endure hardship for the sake of righteousness, truth and enduring
freedom. No wonder CNN and the New York Times continually promotes
victimology in their daily reports. However, Jesus reminds Christians that
persecution is a part of abiding in Him.
Illustration: Richard Foster, in his Celebrration of Discipline, tells the
story of a medieval monk who was unjustly accused of various offenses. One
day the monk looked out the window and saw a dog biting and tearing a rug
hanging out to dry. God said to the monk,
"That is what is happening to your reputation. But if you can trust me, I
will care for you - reputation and all."
When our reputation is being bitten and torn, we need to trust God to
restore, repair and reconstruct.
Peter wrote, "But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is
commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for
you, leaving you an example, that you follow his steps. When they hurled
their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no
threat. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly." (I Pet
2:20,21,23)
John 15:20 "Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than
his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also."
Illustration: In ancient Rome, crowds by the tens of thousands would gather
in the Colosseum to watch as Christians were torn apart by wild animals.
Paul Rader, commenting on his visit to this famous landmark, said, "I stood
uncovered to the heavens above, where He sits for whom they gladly died, and
asked myself, 'Would I, could I, die for Him tonight to get this gospel to
the ends of the earth?'" Rader continued, "I prayed most fervently in that
Roman arena for the spirit of a martyr, and for the working of the Holy
Spirit in my heart, as He worked in Paul's heart when He brought him on his
handcuffed way to Rome." Those early Christians "lived on the threshold of
heaven, within a heartbeat of home, no possessions to hold them back."
Our Daily Bread.
1. PERSECUTION FOSTERS MATURITY - Realize that persecution of the Godly is a
normal part of the maturing process for every Christian. Jesus reminded us
that a part of following Him is to identify with Him even in His suffering.
"For consider Him who endured such suffering of sinners against Himself lest
you be worried and faint in your hearts." (Heb. 12:3)
The most mature Christians are those who are willing to continually take up
their cross and follow Christ regardless of the pain, shame or adversity.
Remember that God is working His will in ways that we cannot see or
appreciate at the time.
Illustration: One old hymn says, "Must Jesus bear the cross alone and all
the world go free. No there's a cross for everyone and there's a cross for
me!"
As we follow Jesus we will have to experience more of the pains, shame, and
hardships as we are called to carry our own cross and follow Him. God uses
people who have shown themselves to be faithful in little things and rewards
them proportionate to their endurance under hardships. (Luke 16:10)
2. DESPISING PERSECUTION IS SELF-INJURIOUS - Jesus said, "If they persecuted
Me, they will also persecute you. (John 15:20) By complaining or shirking
from hardships, persecutions, or criticisms we are in effect distancing
ourselves from identifying with all aspects of Christ.
We must remember that no servant is greater than His master, but every pupil
when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. (Luke 6:40)
A part of growing into a useful servant is enduring the suffering, shame,
and indignities that Jesus went through. This process is meant for our
benefit to produce greater maturity, godliness, and insight into His will
for our lives.
Job said, "When I am tried I will come forth as gold." We too need to have
this optimistic outlook for the stresses that we face as this will help us
triumph through the most difficult of circumstances.
3. YOU ARE NOT ALONE IN BEING PERSECUTED - Let remember the numerous
examples of people who endured persecutions for the sake of Christ
throughout history.
Heb. 11:35-38 says, "Others were tortured and refused to be released, so
that they might gain a better resurrection. Some faced jeers and flogging,
while still others were chained and put in prison. They were stoned; they
were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in
sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted, and mistreated. The world
was not worthy of them."
Isaiah was the most quoted prophet in the New Testament and yet he found
strength even though it meant that the Lord allowed him to be sawn in two.
These people were blessed by God through His enabling grace that was
sufficient for any trial. God used these great pioneers of the faith to lay
a trail for the rest of us to follow.
Many great Christians were humble people who when reviled they did not
retaliate in kind, but kept entrusting themselves to the Lord and His
greater purposes.
Allow God to work through you regardless of whether you can understand all
that is happening to you. When you look back on your hardships from heaven
you will fully understand why God allowed each and every trial to come into
your life.
When we look at life from an eternal perspectives it alleviates stress and
helps us focus on God's perspectives rather than our own limited-selfish
views.
4. BLESS THOSE WHO PERSECUTE YOU - Love your enemies and pray for those who
persecute you, Jesus said in Matt. 5:43,44. This may be one of the most
difficult commandments, but it is entirely within the realm of our God given
capacities.
Remember when Stephen prayed for those who were stoning him in the book of
Acts. Others declared that his face was like that of an angel because they
observed the power of God flowing through him. This is not an admission of
weakness, but rather of the strength that we are relying on through God's
sufficient grace. (2 Cor. 12:9,10)
5. FORGIVE YOUR PERSECUTORS - Jesus prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they
do not know what they are doing. (Luke 22:34) Jesus knew that many who
persecute the Godly are doing so in ignorance. We need to learn how to
forgive as Jesus forgave us. (Col. 3:13)
6. PRACTICE SELF-CONTROL - Be diligent, vigilant, and self-controlled when
you are undergoing persecution. Recognize that the devil prowls around us
like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour and will use anyone or
anything to cause us to stumble - even carnal Christians.
As I Peter 5:8-10 says, "Resist the devil, stand firm in the faith because
you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same
kind of sufferings. And the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal
glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will Himself
restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast."
This great promise should give every Godly person the incentive to persevere
in trials!
7. DO NOT FEAR - Do not fear persecution as much as fear not living up to
the potentials, callings, and levels of maturity that God wants you to
attain.
Paul said, in 2 Timothy 1:8,9 "Do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord
or be ashamed of me His prisoner. But join with me in the suffering for the
Gospel, by the power of God, who has saved us and called us to a holy life -
not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and
grace."
The greatest sins that most Christians make are not the sins of commission
like lying, stealing, and killing. Yet, the sins of omission - not living up
to the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, but merely settling for levels
of others expectations.
Jesus said, "If anyone will come after me, let him deny himself and take up
his cross daily and follow me. For whoever will save his life will lose it,
but whoever loses it for my sake will save it." (Luke 9:23,24)
8. PRAY FOR PERSECUTORS - Pray for those who are undergoing persecution.
That they will stand firm in their faith (I Pet. 5:8-10) That they will
forgive those who persecute them (Lk. 23:34) That they will not be fearful
of men, but trust God. (Rev. 2:10)
That they will not repay evil for evil, but will seek to live at peace with
everyone. (Rom. 12:17-21)
God will ultimately vindicate the righteous and allow them to experience the
victory that is in Christ Jesus. "In the world you will have tribulation but
be of good cheer for I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)
.

User: "Carl"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 02:53:38 PM

"'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,' the Lord replied. 'Now get up and
stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and
as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you. I will
rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to
them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the
power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a
place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'" (Acts 26:15-18)
Just another example of God pardoning a great sinner.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.

User: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 03:45:30 PM

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn0ccj$hol$1@news.utelfla.com...

"'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,' the Lord replied. 'Now get up and
stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and
as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you. I will
rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to
them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the
power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a
place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'" (Acts 26:15-18)

Just another example of God pardoning a great sinner.

carl, are you still quoting the ***** ramblings of superstitious cave
dwellers and goat fuckers ?
hasn't the ALL-POWERFUL sky pixie said anything NEW lately?
.

User: "john w"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 08:01:07 PM

x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:45:30 -0500, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
<killgod@killgod.com> wrote:
� 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn0ccj$hol$1@news.utelfla.com...

"'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,' the Lord replied. 'Now get up and
stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and
as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you. I will
rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to
them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the
power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a
place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'" (Acts 26:15-18)

Just another example of God pardoning a great sinner.

carl,

SNIP
Are you still ranting just to get attention?
.

User: "NOSPAM nospam@nospam"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 11:30:57 PM

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:01:07 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Are you still ranting just to get attention?

Oh.... my good Lord----- what IRONY !!!!!!!!!!!!!
.

User: "john w"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	21 Jan 2008 01:22:12 AM

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 00:30:57 -0500, NOSPAM <nospam@nospam> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:01:07 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Are you still ranting just to get attention?

Oh.... my good Lord----- what IRONY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------ ARCHIVED ----------------------
.

User: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
Title: Re: How To Respond To dumbass christian retards	20 Jan 2008 01:33:43 PM

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn06m5$dbr$1@news.utelfla.com...

hey nutcase, here's an idea, why don't you dumbshit christians provide some
OBJECTABLE, VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE OF YOUR HORSESHIT SKY PIXIE?
you christian retards keep claiming your god is ALL-POWERFUL, yet for some
unknown reason your ALL-POWERFUL horseshit god can't be bothered to get off
of his FAT, LAZY ***** for a few minutes, and show himself. Is your god a
CHICKEN-***** COWARD? why is your god SCARED OF ME?
A couple of thousand years ago when people were living in caves and fucking
goats, people would "hear" from this fictional god character a lot, and
they'd write whatever they imagined down and would say that it "came from
the god". Later, some nutcase put their blatherings together in a book and
called it a bible.
Now of course, when we have technology and can actually VERIFY the source of
the information, and aren't living in caves and fucking goats anymore, then
"all of a sudden" the ALL-POWERFUL sky pixie has been remarkebly quiet.
what's up?, he has nothing to say lately, no new passages for his almighty
precious book? maybe a few corrections, like cleaning up the horseshit in
the christian bible, maybe clearing up the text in the bible so that
christian retards don't TAKE IT OUT OF CONTEXT?
Maybe he could get rid of the contradictions in the christian bible,
although granted, that would only leave about 3 pages left after he was
finished. .
maybe the sky pixie could say, you know what, if you eat some fruit from a
tree, the penalty has been reduced, no more damned to hell for all eternity,
instead, pay a nickel and go on your merry way.
oh, and hey, no more turning people into pillars of salt, just because they
looked over their shoulder, after all, everyone is entitled to one last look
at their hometown, heck lots of people go on vacations to visit relatives,
friends they still have in their hometowns, so certainly looking over ones
shoulder at their hometown shouldn't be that big a deal.
so, sky pixie, what, nothing new to say lately?, or is it because you never
existed in the first place, and you were nothing more than the *****
ramblings of some superstitious cave dwellers and goat fuckers who had
overactive imaginations and needed an imaginary playmate to watch over them.
hey, no need for doctors or hospitals anymore, we can save a hell of a lot
of money, the christian horseshit from some superstitious cave dwellers and
goat fuckers strikes again
Prayer Cures the Sick
Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and
let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and
the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise
him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him. (James
5:14-15 ASV)
.

User: "Mark T moi@home000whatever192"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	21 Jan 2008 04:38:20 PM

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:

With people like ... "Mark T" and other unbelievers persecuting Christians
and Christianity

I'm a Christian and have been since 1972, you silly little fundamentalist
dimwit!
I've been a Principal in a Christian School, helped write the manual for
setting Christian Community Schools across Australia, performed and recorded
with a Chritian rock band but because I GREW UP from my former
fundamentalism I am supposedly not a "Trew Kristyun" anymore!!!
Fundamentalists do not like Christians who use their God-given brains.
--
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES OF A CHRISTUS OBNOXIUM
.... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist:
'Firstly, a fundamentalist has a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of
the Bible, and believes in the absence from it of any sort of error.
Two, a strong hostility to modern theology and to the method, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible.
And three, an assurance that those who do not share their religious
viewpoint are not really true Christians at all.'
Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178

how Christians should respond to such persecution.

I'm not "persecuting" you. I'm using my God-given brain and asking
questions, you silly little fundamentalist!

1. PERSECUTION FOSTERS MATURITY

If fundamentalists grew up and started using their God-given brains it would
be a major miracle!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"LIFE ...and how to survive it" - Robin Skinner & John Cleese (Methuen;
London:1993)
p. 253 -255
John: ... In fact you could claim that most values in the West are derived
from Christianity, and you don't find anything more inclusive than the words
of Jesus Christ. ...
Robin: ... people interpret each myth according to their level of mental
health....
John: So let me get this right: a less healthy person will take a healthy
idea and turn it into something less healthy?
Robin: Absolutely! And vice versa too. ... Each person will bring their own
family attitudes and feelings to their interpretation of myths about
loyalty. So if hey come from a very unhealthy family, they'll feel that the
group should all hold practically identical views, and that anyone who
questions these views is a 'trouble-maker' who is being 'disloyal'; they'll
feel hostility towards outside groups, and a disregard for the rights of
such 'outsiders'; and they'll feel intense and demanding dependence on all
the other members of the group. ...loyalty to unhealthy people is simply
paranoia dressed up and relabelled.
p. 261
John: So the healthy behaviour is to look at the thinking behind
regulations; the less healthy behaviour is to take a literal and inflexible
interpretation of the letter of the law. It sounds to me a general principle
of mental health,
p. 266
John: Well, I'll attempt a rough summing-up so far. We've been looking at
the idea that each person interprets the world according to his or her level
of mental health. And it seems to me that the unhealthier we are, the more
literal minded we are in the interpretations of the letter of the law, as it
were; and the healthier we are, the more influenced we are by the broader
idea that lies behind the formulation of the myth that we are interpreting.
p. 268
John: ... we poor teenagers were hearing sermons every Sunday so
breathtakingly half-witted that the only valid response was reading,
sleeping, or invading the pulpit.... Any God, I felt, who would seriously
approve of what was going on in that church would be out of his
infinitemind.
p. 270 - 271
John: So a religious idea will be interpreted by a person in a way that fits
in best with their existing psychology?
Robin: Yes, and it can therefore support them in functioning at the best
level they're capable of, given their limitations. ... Well, take people
functioning at the least healthy level first. They'll understand religion as
a collection of rules, of rewards and punishments, of threats andpromises,
all enfoced by a powerful and frightening God.
John: The extreme black-and-white thinking found in young children?
Robin: That's exactly what it is. The thinking of such people has got stuck
at that level, and though it's normal in a very young child, it's obviously
unhealthy in an adult. ...
John: And how is God experienced?Robin: He's seen as a terrifying,
domineering, bad-temprered dictator, who wants everyone to spend heir time
admiring him and telling him how marvellous he is. ... So naturally people
holding this view feel they have to do lots of things to keep Him sweet, so
that He won't get into a bad mood and blast them with thunderbolts, or
boils, or rivers of blood.
John: A little bit like the church congregation in "The Meaning of Life",
who, when invited to praise God, all chant 'Ooooh, you are so big', and 'You
're so tough and strong, you could beat anyone up, even the Devil', and
'We're really impressed don here' before singing Hymn 42 'Oh Lord, please
don't burn us'. I can remember as a nione-year-old, thinking that God
couldn't be so stupid that he wouldn't se through such blatant buttering up.
p. 275 - 276
John: So the way I can explain our position now is to say this: there are
different ways of following Christ - which correspond to different levels of
mental health - and therefore it's quite legitimate to make fun of the less
healthy ways, not least because they actually conflict with His teaching!
The Inquistion was not an example of 'Blessed are the meek'.
p. 277
Robin: ... I'll start at the bottom level again. As we said just now, for
the least healthy, religion is based on the kind of thinking typical of very
yopund children. And young children have difficulty distinguishing fantasy
from reality, wishes from deeds. So at this level, religion is valued as
magic - as a means of making wishes come true, without acknowledging
scientific laws and relationships of cause and effect.
John: You mean at this level we believe that we only have to repeat a prayer
of incantation, or perform some other prescribed routine, in order to make
the world do what we want.
Robin: Yes, and when you're thinking like this, whether or not youir wishes
come true seems to depend only on how strongly you believe in the procedure!
p. 282
Robin: ... to the extent that you face and accept your own psychology,
including all your weakneses and faults ... to THAT degree will you be able
to accept and love others. And conversely: to the extent that you love
others, to that degree you will be able to love yourself.
p. 287
John: Well, everything that you've been saying implies that [Fundamentalism]
is a manifestation of a fairly low level of mental health, doesn't it? For a
start, Fundamentalists call for a literal interpretation of scripture, and
as we saw when we were discussing secular values, focusing in on the letter
of the law is a characteristic of the less healthy. In addition, wise people
tend not to exhibit literal mindedness, so it seems singularly inappropriate
to assume that this is the vein in which great spiritual teahers are
speaking. Then again, whether we're talking about Christianity, Islam,
Judaism or Hinduism, the values of Fundamentalists seem aimed at making
themselves feel better by placing all negative and destructive emotions in
people with different beliefs, and enjoying the golden glow of
self-justification that results. ... You know that simile: 'As rare as a
Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.' ... the Inquisition did largely miss
the point of 'Love Thy Neighbour', didn't they? Wasn't burning heretics
'worse' than being tolerant towards them? ...
p. 308
John: In other words, the aim is integration?
Robin: Yes. It's even there in the language. The words 'whole', 'healthy'
and 'holy' all have the same root. They're all expressions of the same idea.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
####################################################
Fundamentalists Anonymous: Twelve Steps to Sanity
by Lee Adams Young
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All who have chosen to walk away from biblical fundamentalism are welcome to
join Fundamentalists Anonymous, and to consider embracing the following
Twelve Steps:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. I realize that I had turned control of my mind over to another person or
group, who had assumed power over my thinking.
2. That person or group persuaded me of the inerrancy of the Bible, in spite
of its many internal contradictions.
3. I became addicted to the Bible as the supreme focus of my faith, in spite
of the commandment that God should come first.
4. I admit to God, to myself and to another person the shortcomings of my
belief in the unbelievable.
5. I have made an inventory of my false claims about the Bible.
6. I have made a list of those whom I led into confusion about the Bible.
7. I am willing to make amends to all those whom I may have led astray.
8. I realize that I have the inner power to restore sanity to my life and to
search Scripture for the truth.
9. I will reach out to friends who can help me clarify my thinking about the
Bible, God and Jesus.
10. I confess that only with God's help can my mind grasp the truth.
11. I will seek through prayer and meditation to improve my conscious
contact with God, praying for knowledge of God's will for me and the power
to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these twelve steps, I
will offer these steps to other former biblical fundamentalists.
These 12 steps are adapted from those of Alchoholics Anonymous.
from http://www.geocities.com/church_of_hank/fundamentalists_anonymous.html
--
MY BLOG - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
MY SOUNDCLICK PAGE- download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
MEHSC HOMEPAGE - a satire on Homeskool.
http://mehsc.blogspot.com/
Professor Michelle S. Morris, Fizzix Lecturer & Fonix Tutor, Butter
Homeskool Uni.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	21 Jan 2008 07:19:43 PM

On Jan 21, 5:38=A0pm, "Mark T" <moi@home000whatever192> wrote:

"Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:

With people like ... "Mark T" and other unbelievers persecuting Christia=

and Christianity

I'm a Christian and have been since 1972, =A0you silly little fundamentali=

dimwit!

You claim is dubious at best.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.

User: "Carl"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 06:45:44 PM

"Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what
is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his
body, which is the church. I have become its servant by the commission God
gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness-the mystery that
has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the
saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious
riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." (Col
1:24-27)
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.

User: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 06:54:50 PM

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn0pvp$se0$1@news.utelfla.com...

"Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh
what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of
his body, which is the church. I have become its servant by the commission
God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness-the mystery
that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed
to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the
glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of
glory." (Col 1:24-27)

are you STILL spouting the anicent HORSESHIT from superstitious cave
dwellers and goat fuckers from a few thousand years ago?
hasn't your ALL-POWERFUL IDIOT christian god said anything NEW lately?
.

User: "rogue"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	23 Jan 2008 03:16:42 AM

Carl wrote:

With people like "rogue," "sheblew," "bob young," "Mark T" and other
unbelievers persecuting Christians and Christianity

JERRY
there is that typical christian persecution complex.
I think you really like being picked on, Carl. It gives you the
belief that what you argue must be true if so many people are against
you.
By the way, I responded to your accusation in the Salvation by Faith
thread and you still haven't responded at all. Don't like people
showing you to be a liar, Carl? Too bad the archives don't agree with
you.
.

User: "Libertarius"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	22 Jan 2008 03:15:52 PM

Carl wrote:

===>Is that your ultimate refuge?
At first Bible worshipers like you come back with twisted,
out-of-context verses from the Bible to prove the correctness
of their doctrinal prejudices and absurdities.
After they are cornered and caught in distortions and even lies,
the next thing is to cry victims, that they are being "persecuted".
Carl baby, you have no idea what the word "persecution" means if you
think posters like "rogue," "sheblew," "bob young," "Mark T", etc.
are persecuting you. Or you are just being paranoid.
Either way, your claims are meaningless. -- L.

There are different degrees of persecution ranging from the nonsense that
occurs on Usenet all the way up to Christians being murdered for their
faith. God has informed all Christians that they would be persecuted for
believing in Him so it's not unexpected. Even false teachers and heretics
who teach false doctrine persecute Christians who believe in orthodox
Biblical doctrine.

===>What do you call "orthodox" doctrine?
beliefs of the Orthodox churches (there are several of those)?
The Roman Catholic Curch? Calvinists? Lutherans?
"Bible Bob," Steve Winter, and "Pastor" Dave Raymond are

prime examples of this. However by the fruit they produce we know them to be
just as false as the unbeliever.

===>VERY FUNNY!
Only YOUR beliefs are to be considered "orthodox"?
There are literally HUNDREDS of Christian sects and denominations,
and, as my Law of Sects says:
FOR EVERY SECTARIAAN DOCTRINE
THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE SECTARIAN DOCTRINE,
EACH CLAIMED TO BE BASED ON THE BIBLE
AND/OR THE HOLY GHOST/SPIRIT.
(Thet can't even agree on what they should call that alleged
source).

So how should we Christians respond to such persecution?

===>By taking your anti-paranoia medication or at least
by realizing you are not being persecuted. -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "Carl"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 07:00:09 PM

Jesus said:
"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs
is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute
you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and
be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they
persecuted the prophets who were before you." (Matt 5:10-12)
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.

User: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 07:36:59 PM

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn0qqq$t2k$1@news.utelfla.com...

Jesus said:
"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs
is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you,
persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the
same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." (Matt 5:10-12)

more ***** ramblings from superstitious cave dwellers and goat fuckers,
huh carl.
hasn't your all-powerful idiot christian god said anything NEW in the last
2000 years?
.

User: "Bible Bob"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 08:40:33 PM

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 20:00:09 -0500, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:

Jesus said:
"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs
is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute
you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and
be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they
persecuted the prophets who were before you." (Matt 5:10-12)

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/

Carl,
Jesus was speaking to Jews before the resurrection. Assuming the
application of the principle is for Christians would not the word
"falsely" have some bearing on the matter?
I assume you are responding to sheblew, but for some reason your
response is to your own post which doesn't make any sense. Normally,
when a person responds to a post that response falls under the thread
tree below the person being responded to. For some reason your posts
are threaded under the original post. Are you doing something or
changing something in the headers that makes your posts do this?
When this happens, your response looks like nonsense. If this is a
reponse to shewblew, then it should be under her post in the thread
tree. This is the second time I have noticed this about your posts
tonight. It looks like you are adding newsgroups to the address line
and that may be what causes your posts to thread out of position.
Somthing to think about if you are sincere about communicating with
people. If you just want to broadcast to as many groups and as many
people as possible; then do what you are doing. But you will lose
credability.
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
Nothing so completely baffles one who is full of trick and duplicity
himself, than straightforward and simple integrity in another.
Charles Caleb Colton, author and clergyman (1780-1832)
.

User: "Carl"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 01:43:00 PM

Jesus said:
"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" (Matthew 5:44)
Take this to heart, my Christian brethren.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.

User: "Carl"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 01:56:11 PM

"But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable
before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you,
leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps." (1 Peter 2:20,
21)
Take this to heart, my Christian brethren.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.

User: "Sensi"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 02:44:26 PM

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn090s$f5e$1@news.utelfla.com...

"But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable
before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you,
leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps." (1 Peter
2:20, 21)

Take this to heart, my Christian brethren.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/

Sensi:
Hi Carl,
In my view most generally it's the Christians that persecute other people
and what they do to others comes back to them in return..
Matthew 7:2..
You know that *reap what you sow.* that Christ talked about? Now with that
being said have you noticed that many times Christians read scripture
as a means to persecute and put other people down?
Especially people who share different religious views.
You gave a verse...if you suffer for *doing good.*
Now think about "doing good."
What is good?
Do you do unto others as you would have them do unto you?
If you did and treated them with kindness, respect and honored them as
already forgiven by God then they would see the Good of God in you.
If you went after them with a vengeance and called them heretics, liars,
hypocrites, false teachers and such. What could you expect?
Turn around is fair play!
..
Thanks,
Sensi
.

User: "Mark T moi@home000whatever193"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	21 Jan 2008 04:45:53 PM

"Sensi" wrote:

In my view most generally it's the Christians that persecute other people

Yep!
########################################################
... You know that simile: 'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.'
.... the Inquisition did largely miss the point of 'Love Thy Neighbour',
didn't they? Wasn't burning heretics 'worse' than being tolerant towards
them? ...
from Robin Skinner & John Cleese "LIFE ...and how to survive it" (Methuen;
London:1993) p. 287
##########################################################

You gave a verse...if you suffer for *doing good.*
Now think about "doing good."
What is good?

Drowning people in a Bible Verse Vomit?
Hitting 'em over the head with a Steel Encased KJV Bible????
Stoning every non-fundamentalist????? ("Everybody must get stoned." - Bob
Dylan)
--
MY BLOG - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
MY SOUNDCLICK PAGE- download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
MEHSC HOMEPAGE - a satire on Homeskool.
http://mehsc.blogspot.com/
Professor Michelle S. Morris, Fizzix Lecturer & Fonix Tutor, Butter
Homeskool Uni.
.

User: "john w"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 08:00:24 PM

x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:44:26 -0600, "Sensi" <sensi4sight@home.net>
wrote:
� 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn090s$f5e$1@news.utelfla.com...

"But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable
before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you,
leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps." (1 Peter
2:20, 21)

Take this to heart, my Christian brethren.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/

Sensi:
Hi Carl,
In my view most generally it's the Christians that persecute other people
and what they do to others comes back to them in return..
Matthew 7:2..

You know that *reap what you sow.* that Christ talked about? Now with that
being said have you noticed that many times Christians read scripture
as a means to persecute and put other people down?
Especially people who share different religious views.

You gave a verse...if you suffer for *doing good.*
Now think about "doing good."
What is good?
Do you do unto others as you would have them do unto you?
If you did and treated them with kindness, respect and honored them as
already forgiven by God then they would see the Good of God in you.
If you went after them with a vengeance and called them heretics, liars,
hypocrites, false teachers and such. What could you expect?

Turn around is fair play!

"FAir enough."
So, have you found ANY good Christians in your many years walking
this planet?
I think people (perhaps you) tend to forget (too conveniently?) that
among other things, Christians are FIRST
human beings
with flaws and faults and frailties.
You perhaps are not aware that Paul commented, "do the best you can to
be at peace with everyone." (I believe he knew that some people are
not going to allow us to "be at peace."
You also seem to want to point a finger at all those Christians who
don't "turn the cheek", who don't practice "The Golden Rule"
as you see it.
How about rather than you practicing "tit for tat" as you suggested,
you find a Christian and show him how to be nice.
We can all learn. (even you)
Bottom line: it's ALWAYS easier to tell someone else to get THEIR
act together, than for us to adjust ourselves!
john w

.
Thanks,
Sensi

User: "Sensi"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 10:06:02 PM

"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:uuu7p3df29rk7qe60442gvi7vj884sdisk@4ax.com...

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn090s$f5e$1@news.utelfla.com...

"But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable
before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you,
leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps." (1 Peter
2:20, 21)

Take this to heart, my Christian brethren.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/

Sensi:
Hi Carl,
In my view most generally it's the Christians that persecute other people
and what they do to others comes back to them in return..
Matthew 7:2..

You know that *reap what you sow.* that Christ talked about? Now with that
being said have you noticed that many times Christians read scripture
as a means to persecute and put other people down?
Especially people who share different religious views.

You gave a verse...if you suffer for *doing good.*
Now think about "doing good."
What is good?
Do you do unto others as you would have them do unto you?
If you did and treated them with kindness, respect and honored them as
already forgiven by God then they would see the Good of God in you.
If you went after them with a vengeance and called them heretics, liars,
hypocrites, false teachers and such. What could you expect?

Turn around is fair play!

"FAir enough."

So, have you found ANY good Christians in your many years walking
this planet?

Snsi:
Yep, and I have great respect for Christians that
" DO GOOD."

I think people (perhaps you) tend to forget (too conveniently?) that
among other things, Christians are FIRST

human beings

Sensi:
As is every person. It's when Christians set themselves above all other
human beings as some kind of chosen people that are not any different than
their *neighbors.*

with flaws and faults and frailties.

Sensi:
I don't mind the flaws, faults and frailties.
That's just it! We *all* have them but when you persecute others for having
them they will in return persecute you as well. So it's not persecution for
*doing good.* That is what I was pointing out.

You perhaps are not aware that Paul commented, "do the best you can to
be at peace with everyone." (I believe he knew that some people are
not going to allow us to "be at peace."

Sensi:
You can have as much peace as you desire. No one is stopping you from being
peaceful. The way I see it it is your own *thoughts* and ideas that won't
let you be peaceful.

You also seem to want to point a finger at all those Christians who
don't "turn the cheek", who don't practice "The Golden Rule"

Sensi:
The original question was "How to respond to Persecution." I gave my
opinion and you were not included so scratch that I was persecuting you
personally or anyone else for that matter..

as you see it.

How about rather than you practicing "tit for tat" as you suggested,
you find a Christian and show him how to be nice.

Sensi:
In response to the question *How to Respond to Persecution.* First of all I
wasn't talking to you personally, so why would you tell me to find a
Christian and show him how to be nice when you could be nice yourself rather
than feeling like you have a personal grudge as if I was talking *about* you
when I don't even know you.

We can all learn. (even you)

Sensi:
I have no problem with needing to learn.

Bottom line: it's ALWAYS easier to tell someone else to get THEIR
act together, than for us to adjust ourselves!

Sensi:
Well, now that sounds about right.

john w

.
Thanks,
Sensi

User: "Mark T moi@home000whatever193"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	21 Jan 2008 04:52:14 PM

"Sensi" wrote:

So, have you found ANY good Christians in your many years walking
this planet?

Snsi:
Yep, and I have great respect for Christians that
" DO GOOD."

I have also met many good Christians ... and also lots of obnoxious ones.

You perhaps are not aware that Paul commented, "do the best you can to
be at peace with everyone." (I believe he knew that some people are
not going to allow us to "be at peace."

Sensi:
You can have as much peace as you desire. No one is stopping you from
being peaceful.

The problem is that fundamentalists are always at WAR. They MUST have an
enemy even if they have to create one.
"I know you're a Christian, but who are you a Christian against." - Kenneth
Burke
--
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES OF A CHRISTUS OBNOXIUM
.... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist:
'Firstly, a fundamentalist has a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of
the Bible, and believes in the absence from it of any sort of error.
Two, a strong hostility to modern theology and to the method, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible.
And three, an assurance that those who do not share their religious
viewpoint are not really true Christians at all.'
Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
--
MY BLOG - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
MY SOUNDCLICK PAGE- download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
MEHSC HOMEPAGE - a satire on Homeskool.
http://mehsc.blogspot.com/
Professor Michelle S. Morris, Fizzix Lecturer & Fonix Tutor, Butter
Homeskool Uni.
.

User: "bob young"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	20 Jan 2008 11:37:02 PM

Sensi wrote:

"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:uuu7p3df29rk7qe60442gvi7vj884sdisk@4ax.com...

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn090s$f5e$1@news.utelfla.com...

"But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable
before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you,
leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps." (1 Peter
2:20, 21)

Take this to heart, my Christian brethren.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/

Sensi:
Hi Carl,
In my view most generally it's the Christians that persecute other people
and what they do to others comes back to them in return..
Matthew 7:2..

You know that *reap what you sow.* that Christ talked about? Now with that
being said have you noticed that many times Christians read scripture
as a means to persecute and put other people down?
Especially people who share different religious views.

You gave a verse...if you suffer for *doing good.*
Now think about "doing good."
What is good?
Do you do unto others as you would have them do unto you?
If you did and treated them with kindness, respect and honored them as
already forgiven by God then they would see the Good of God in you.
If you went after them with a vengeance and called them heretics, liars,
hypocrites, false teachers and such. What could you expect?

Turn around is fair play!

"FAir enough."

So, have you found ANY good Christians in your many years walking
this planet?

Snsi:
Yep, and I have great respect for Christians that
" DO GOOD."

What degree of respect to you apply to atheists that do good?

I think people (perhaps you) tend to forget (too conveniently?) that
among other things, Christians are FIRST

human beings

Sensi:
As is every person. It's when Christians set themselves above all other
human beings as some kind of chosen people that are not any different than
their *neighbors.*

with flaws and faults and frailties.

You perhaps are not aware that Paul commented, "do the best you can to
be at peace with everyone." (I believe he knew that some people are
not going to allow us to "be at peace."

Sensi:
You can have as much peace as you desire. No one is stopping you from being
peaceful. The way I see it it is your own *thoughts* and ideas that won't
let you be peaceful.

You also seem to want to point a finger at all those Christians who
don't "turn the cheek", who don't practice "The Golden Rule"

Sensi:
The original question was "How to respond to Persecution." I gave my
opinion and you were not included so scratch that I was persecuting you
personally or anyone else for that matter..

as you see it.

How about rather than you practicing "tit for tat" as you suggested,
you find a Christian and show him how to be nice.

We can all learn. (even you)

Sensi:
I have no problem with needing to learn.

Bottom line: it's ALWAYS easier to tell someone else to get THEIR
act together, than for us to adjust ourselves!

Sensi:
Well, now that sounds about right.

john w

.
Thanks,
Sensi

User: "john w"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	21 Jan 2008 01:35:49 AM

x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:06:02 -0600, "Sensi" <sensi4sight@home.net>
wrote:
� 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:uuu7p3df29rk7qe60442gvi7vj884sdisk@4ax.com...

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn090s$f5e$1@news.utelfla.com...

"But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable
before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you,
leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps." (1 Peter
2:20, 21)

Take this to heart, my Christian brethren.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/

Sensi:
Hi Carl,
In my view most generally it's the Christians that persecute other people
and what they do to others comes back to them in return..
Matthew 7:2..

You know that *reap what you sow.* that Christ talked about? Now with that
being said have you noticed that many times Christians read scripture
as a means to persecute and put other people down?
Especially people who share different religious views.

You gave a verse...if you suffer for *doing good.*
Now think about "doing good."
What is good?
Do you do unto others as you would have them do unto you?
If you did and treated them with kindness, respect and honored them as
already forgiven by God then they would see the Good of God in you.
If you went after them with a vengeance and called them heretics, liars,
hypocrites, false teachers and such. What could you expect?

Turn around is fair play!

"FAir enough."

So, have you found ANY good Christians in your many years walking
this planet?

Snsi:
Yep, and I have great respect for Christians that
" DO GOOD."

But you lose that respect if that Christian "has an off day" in your
company.
If you're with your Christian friend-- let's say-- and he gets a
phone call on his cell phone that his wife has just been taken to the
hospital from a car crash-- but she's DOA (Dead on Arrival),
and he falls apart, and starts cursing and crying and pounding his
fist on the table.
You lose all respect for him because he doesn't walk around with
plaster boots on (a "plaster saint.")

I think people (perhaps you) tend to forget (too conveniently?) that
among other things, Christians are FIRST

human beings

Sensi:
As is every person. It's when Christians set themselves above all other
human beings as some kind of chosen people that are not any different than
their *neighbors.*

Many have not been taught correctly. I had to find out certain
things for myself.
Our God requires each of us to be a servant. We are to first serve
God; we are to next serve our fellow man.
Jesus said, "How can you love God, who you have never seen, if you
REFUSE To love your neighbor, who you see every day?"
Many don't like the role of "servant", and they -- instead-- want to
RULE.
They are simply young, unschooled Christians, and they need to learn
and grow.

with flaws and faults and frailties.

Sensi:
I don't mind the flaws, faults and frailties.

I believe you have said you DO.
Those of us (including me) who are frail and full of flaws, may not
serve you to your liking with lots of "Good deeds."

That's just it! We *all* have them but when you persecute others for having
them

???? I don't recall ever persecuting anyone.
We ARE to encourage one another. Sometimes, that "encouragement" can
seem a bit harsh.
they will in return persecute you as well. So it's not persecution for

*doing good.* That is what I was pointing out.

But who decides who is "doing good?" Sounds like you have a very
definite idea of what this "doing good" stuff is all about.
And sounds like you want to be on the front of the "receiving good
deeds" line.
???

You perhaps are not aware that Paul commented, "do the best you can to
be at peace with everyone." (I believe he knew that some people are
not going to allow us to "be at peace."

Sensi:
You can have as much peace as you desire.

Not true. I am "persecuted" for my beliefs every day. I am
persecuted in here by people who don't believe I "live up" to the
standard, and I am persecuted out there in the world.
No one is stopping you from being

peaceful. The way I see it it is your own *thoughts* and ideas that won't
let you be peaceful.

Then you would be wrong.
We do not live in a peaceful world.
We each must carve out a place where we can have "peace" if only for
a time.

You also seem to want to point a finger at all those Christians who
don't "turn the cheek", who don't practice "The Golden Rule"

Sensi:
The original question was "How to respond to Persecution." I gave my
opinion and you were not included so scratch that I was persecuting you
personally or anyone else for that matter..

"ok."
I perhaps didn't like how you worded your comment.

as you see it.

How about rather than you practicing "tit for tat" as you suggested,
you find a Christian and show him how to be nice.

Pardon me for not wording MY point to your liking. You made a point
about too many who call themselves Christians who "don't do good."
And who "look down on others."
I made a comment that perhaps you could find a Christian who is
"falling short" in your estimation, and "give him a lesson" in being
nice, as you see it.
I didn't take your comment "personally." And you don't need to feel
personally ATTACKED.

We can all learn. (even you)

Sensi:
I have no problem with needing to learn.

Bottom line: it's ALWAYS easier to tell someone else to get THEIR
act together, than for us to adjust ourselves!

Sensi:
Well, now that sounds about right.

And-- as (I believe) we have in the past, we have inched one step
closer!
One thing I have learned over the years, it's ALWAYS easier to tell
your neighbor how to get HIS act together than it is to clean up your
own back yard!
I suggest that we all focus our attention on our back yards, and
leave our neighbor in peace.
God bless!

john w

.
Thanks,
Sensi

User: "Sensi"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	21 Jan 2008 02:34:03 PM

"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:p6i8p3dq4f3b1fuk9e0hondc2htkjnc89q@4ax.com...

"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:uuu7p3df29rk7qe60442gvi7vj884sdisk@4ax.com...

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fn090s$f5e$1@news.utelfla.com...

"But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is
commendable
before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you,
leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps." (1 Peter
2:20, 21)

Take this to heart, my Christian brethren.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/

Sensi:
Hi Carl,
In my view most generally it's the Christians that persecute other
people
and what they do to others comes back to them in return..
Matthew 7:2..

You know that *reap what you sow.* that Christ talked about? Now with
that
being said have you noticed that many times Christians read scripture
as a means to persecute and put other people down?
Especially people who share different religious views.

You gave a verse...if you suffer for *doing good.*
Now think about "doing good."
What is good?
Do you do unto others as you would have them do unto you?
If you did and treated them with kindness, respect and honored them as
already forgiven by God then they would see the Good of God in you.
If you went after them with a vengeance and called them heretics, liars,
hypocrites, false teachers and such. What could you expect?

Turn around is fair play!

"FAir enough."

So, have you found ANY good Christians in your many years walking
this planet?

Snsi:
Yep, and I have great respect for Christians that
" DO GOOD."

But you lose that respect if that Christian "has an off day" in your
company.

Sensi:
The word "Christian" has many meanings and is required many actions. Good
actions.

If you're with your Christian friend-- let's say-- and he gets a
phone call on his cell phone that his wife has just been taken to the
hospital from a car crash-- but she's DOA (Dead on Arrival),
and he falls apart, and starts cursing and crying and pounding his
fist on the table.
You lose all respect for him because he doesn't walk around with
plaster boots on (a "plaster saint.")

Sensi:
You're assuming I would react that way when it is you planting that reaction
of which is not how I would react.

I think people (perhaps you) tend to forget (too conveniently?) that
among other things, Christians are FIRST

human beings

Sensi:
As is every person. It's when Christians set themselves above all other
human beings as some kind of chosen people that are not any different than
their *neighbors.*

Many have not been taught correctly. I had to find out certain
things for myself.

Sensi:
Haven't we all?

Our God requires each of us to be a servant. We are to first serve
God; we are to next serve our fellow man.

Sensi:
Serving our fellow man is also serving God. God is not separate from our
fellow man.

Jesus said, "How can you love God, who you have never seen, if you
REFUSE To love your neighbor, who you see every day?"

Sensi:
Yep...That is what I'm referring to.
The need for *Christians* to put others down who are not of a baptist
or.......religion or not is not the Christian way.

Many don't like the role of "servant", and they -- instead-- want to
RULE.

Sensi:
So there really is *NO* need to persecute those who are not of the baptist
or other religion

They are simply young, unschooled Christians, and they need to learn
and grow.

Sensi:
Yep! Learn the hard way sometimes. *Learning* is the ultimate truth!

with flaws and faults and frailties.

Sensi:
I don't mind the flaws, faults and frailties.

I believe you have said you DO.
Those of us (including me) who are frail and full of flaws, may not
serve you to your liking with lots of "Good deeds."

Sensi:
Do you ever love to hear or preach sermons about the weak, downtrodden and
frail and how they're thrown in the lake of fire for eternity cause they
don't have the forgivenesss, mercy and grace that you see yourself as
having?
Often times Christians preach fear, hate and are inconsiderate to people who
they *think* are not accepted in the fold, they often quote bible verses
that imply others are being mean and nasty when it's the Christians who are
mean and nasty.
Being that this post is how to respond to persecution I'm saying these kind
of Christians (mean and nasty) are the ones who persecute others and
therefore they in return get what they *give.*

That's just it! We *all* have them but when you persecute others for
having
them

???? I don't recall ever persecuting anyone.

Sensi:
Sure.....

We ARE to encourage one another. Sometimes, that "encouragement" can
seem a bit harsh.

Sensi:
Encourage is a wonderful approach...I'm all for it!

they will in return persecute you as well. So it's not persecution for

*doing good.* That is what I was pointing out.

But who decides who is "doing good?" Sounds like you have a very
definite idea of what this "doing good" stuff is all about.

Sensi:
Well, it's what Jesus taught as in DO rather than worship him as doing all
the good stuff for us so we don't have to. .

And sounds like you want to be on the front of the "receiving good
deeds" line.

Sensi:
Why not do good? It's the only way to go.

???

You perhaps are not aware that Paul commented, "do the best you can to
be at peace with everyone." (I believe he knew that some people are
not going to allow us to "be at peace."

Sensi:
You can have as much peace as you desire.

Not true. I am "persecuted" for my beliefs every day. I am
persecuted in here by people who don't believe I "live up" to the
standard, and I am persecuted out there in the world.

Sensi:
If you think you are persecuted what do you think others think about you
persecuting them for not having the mercy, grace, forgiveness that you've
allowed yourself to have but refuse to honor it to your neighbor of a
different culture, religion etc than yourself.

No one is stopping you from being

peaceful. The way I see it it is your own *thoughts* and ideas that won't
let you be peaceful.

Then you would be wrong.

We do not live in a peaceful world.

Sensi:
Life is what you make it.

We each must carve out a place where we can have "peace" if only for
a time.

Sensi:
We each carve out a place? Where is this place? and what do you use to
carve it with?

You also seem to want to point a finger at all those Christians who
don't "turn the cheek", who don't practice "The Golden Rule"

Sensi:
The original question was "How to respond to Persecution." I gave my
opinion and you were not included so scratch that I was persecuting you
personally or anyone else for that matter..

"ok."

I perhaps didn't like how you worded your comment.

as you see it.

How about rather than you practicing "tit for tat" as you suggested,
you find a Christian and show him how to be nice.

Sensi:
In response to the question *How to Respond to Persecution.* First of all
I
wasn't talking to you personally, so why would you tell me to find a
Christian and show him how to be nice when you could be nice yourself
rather
than feeling like you have a personal grudge as if I was talking *about*
you
when I don't even know you.

Pardon me for not wording MY point to your liking. You made a point
about too many who call themselves Christians who "don't do good."
And who "look down on others."

Sensi:
That is correct....the persecutors are the ones getting persecuted from
their own mouth.(deeds)

I made a comment that perhaps you could find a Christian who is
"falling short" in your estimation, and "give him a lesson" in being
nice, as you see it.

I didn't take your comment "personally." And you don't need to feel
personally ATTACKED.

Sensi:
I'm not attacked at all.
I'm comfortable in the *discussion.

We can all learn. (even you)

Sensi:
I have no problem with needing to learn.

Bottom line: it's ALWAYS easier to tell someone else to get THEIR
act together, than for us to adjust ourselves!

Sensi:
Well, now that sounds about right.

And-- as (I believe) we have in the past, we have inched one step
closer!

One thing I have learned over the years, it's ALWAYS easier to tell
your neighbor how to get HIS act together than it is to clean up your
own back yard!

I suggest that we all focus our attention on our back yards, and
leave our neighbor in peace.

God bless!

john w

Sensi:
Thank you john w.
.

User: "john w"
Title: Re: How To Respond To Persecution	21 Jan 2008 09:29:00 PM

x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:34:03 -0600, "Sensi" <sensi4sight@home.net>
wrote:
� 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.