| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Bill M" |
| Date: |
03 Feb 2007 10:06:03 AM |
| Object: |
IF THERE WAS A REAL GOD |
I am posting this again because someone has dishonestly deleted the first
post and in addition I have added some new material.
Apparently some religionist could not deal with the facts and evidence
IF THERE WAS A REAL GOD
Man would be created inherently good without the need for threats of eternal
punishment in Hell. He would not be created with selfishness, greed and
dishonesty.
If there really was a loving God there would be one attractive woman for
every attractive man and they would all be fertile. There would be no need
or desire for homosexuals.
There would be no need for poor, sick or infirm. No humans would be created
unwanted or unloved.
Man is capable of communicating with the whole world via, TV, Radio, Cell
Phone,
and Print. A real God would provide his wishes and commands in a consistent
fashion, to all his creations, directly from his Heaven. He would have no
need for thousands of Preachers, Priests, Imams and Rabbis with many
different stories and claims. Why would he need hundreds of thousands of
potentially errant intermediaries?
He certainly would not permit the thousands of false Gods that confuse and
mislead his creations.
An all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent designer, would
not create or permit Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions,
Floods, Wars, Earth Quakes, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases
and serious body malfunctions? There are 12,000 known diseases that affect
and punish mankind indiscriminately. Why would he permit millions of both
young and old to starve to death or die of miserable diseases? Why would he
punish millions of INNOCENT CHILDREN in this horrible way?
There would be no need for dozens of Bible variations, Korans, and numerous
other ancient and ambiguous religious instructional documents to instruct
mankind on Gods wishes and commands. He would provide these instructions and
commands
directly from his Heaven in a clear and unambiguous manner.
An all powerful creator of this huge Universe would have no need or desire
for people to sing hymns and waste their time on their knees in adulation.
This type of thing is the practice of greedy leaders with a need to satisfy
their selfish egos.
An all powerful creator of this huge Universe and everything in it would
have no need or desire to create, Sin, Devils, Evil Spirits or Hells
There would be no need for basing ones life on 'FAITH' and the preaching's
of errant selfish men because we would have direct communication and
authentification directly from this all powerful God.
The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
man created imaginary gods! (thousands of them!)
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: IF THERE WAS A REAL GOD |
03 Feb 2007 11:26:12 AM |
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Bill M wrote:
(snip)
IF THERE WAS A REAL GOD
Man would be created inherently good without the need for threats of eternal
punishment in Hell. He would not be created with selfishness, greed and
dishonesty.
I don't understand these conclusions, without making up a
lot of assumptions about the properties and intentions of
this hypothetical god. A real, but insanely evil god might
well make the world just as we find it.
If there really was a loving God there would be one attractive woman for
every attractive man and they would all be fertile. There would be no need
or desire for homosexuals.
Exactly what are you imagining this loving god to be loving?
There would be no need for poor, sick or infirm. No humans would be created
unwanted or unloved.
Why would any real god have any use for humans, poor
wealthy, sick or healthy, or any other way?
Once I reached this point, I lost interest in the rest.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: IF THERE WAS A REAL GOD |
04 Feb 2007 01:37:04 AM |
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John Popelish wrote:
Bill M wrote:
(snip)
IF THERE WAS A REAL GOD
Man would be created inherently good without the need for threats of eternal
punishment in Hell. He would not be created with selfishness, greed and
dishonesty.
I don't understand these conclusions, without making up a
lot of assumptions about the properties and intentions of
this hypothetical god. A real, but insanely evil god might
well make the world just as we find it.
If there really was a loving God there would be one attractive woman for
every attractive man and they would all be fertile. There would be no need
or desire for homosexuals.
Exactly what are you imagining this loving god to be loving?
There would be no need for poor, sick or infirm. No humans would be created
unwanted or unloved.
Why would any real god have any use for humans, poor
wealthy, sick or healthy, or any other way?
Once I reached this point, I lost interest in the rest.
Well it takes all kinds
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| User: "..andnothingbut" |
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| Title: Re: IF THERE WAS A REAL GOD |
24 Feb 2007 09:47:40 AM |
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The first thing mankindd would do is warp, re-arrange and edit that concept
so that it supports the egotistical needs (and fanaticisms) of that
mankind.
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| User: "e" |
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| Title: Re: IF THERE WAS A REAL GOD |
24 Feb 2007 10:23:51 AM |
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"..andnothingbut" <thetruth@xohelpme..> wrote in message news:Xns98E16DD1BCB2Athetruthxohelpme@199.45.49.11...
The first thing mankindd would do is warp, re-arrange and edit that concept
so that it supports the egotistical needs (and fanaticisms) of that
mankind.
===> Agreed. [Removed cross posting to alt.atheism]
Me, Myself, and I
God had an act of love in mind when He spoke to Moses about leading
two million Hebrews out of slavery in Egypt. Do you remember how
Moses responded? “?But Moses said to the Lord, ‘?O Lord, I have
never been eloquent, neither in the past nor since you have spoken to your
servant. I am slow of speech and tongue. O Lord, please send someone
else to do it?’ ?” (?Ex. 4:10?, ?Ex. 4:13?). Was Moses?’ response
indicative of true humility or of having the wrong focus? Hint: The next
verse says, “?Then the LORD?’s anger burned against Moses.?”
God asked Moses to deliver two million people out of slavery, but Moses
wasn?’t thinking about two million people. Moses was thinking about one
person—himself. That?’s not humility; that?’s pride in disguise.
What about you? Are you focusing on yourself or on those whom God
desires you to help? So much God-given talent is wasted when people are
preoccupied with self. Real humility is not thinking less of yourself; it is
thinking of yourself less.
[1]
You?’ve Got to Serve Somebody.
Unlike Moses in ?Exodus 4?, the Apostle Paul chose to adopt the right
focus. Paul explains how to humble yourself in ?Philippians 2?. “?In
humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look
not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others?” (vv.
?3–4?).
Paul practiced what he preached. “?You know how I lived the whole time
I was with you. I served the Lord with great humility?” (?Acts
20:18–19?). How was this humility expressed? Did it affect his public
speaking? Look at verse ?20?: “?You know that I have not hesitated to
preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly
and from house to house.?”
Paul did not shrink back, because he wasn?’t thinking about himself. He
was thinking about how to profit his listeners. His humility gave birth to
boldness.
This is amazing when you realize that Paul not only faced the more
common fears of public speakers—people falling asleep, rolling their eyes,
or walking out—but he frequently withstood beatings, stonings, and
imprisonment! “?In every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and
hardships are facing me?” (?Acts 20:23?).
Paul lived not for himself, but to advance God?’s Kingdom by benefiting
others. Paul said, “?I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may
finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me?”
(?Acts 20:24?). Jesus said that a seed must die to bear much fruit.
Because Paul chose to be such a seed, God used him in mighty ways.
God began teaching me this principle about twelve years ago. Here is the
gist of what He taught me: Make love your goal. Concentrate on the
individuals with needs. Concentrate on how you can help them, how you
can love them best. In this way you will be pleasing in My sight.
It?’s amazing! When I keep this focus, my nervousness always
disappears. There have been no exceptions. Why? Because unlike taking
three deep breaths, listening to tapes of ocean noises, or other methods to
reduce nervousness, this method puts the axe to the root of the problem.
Since nervousness is caused by having the wrong goal, we must change
our goal in order to cure it. Nervousness disappears when we make the
shift from impressing others to serving others..
[2]
What Is a World View?
A world view is a way one views the whole world. And since people have
vastly different views of the world, depending on the perspective from
which they view the world, it is clear that one’s world view makes a world
of difference. A world view is a way of viewing or interpreting all of
reality. It is an interpretive framework through which or by which one
makes sense out of the data of life and the world.[3]
Everyone has a worldview. Whether or not we realize it, we all have
certain presuppositions and biases that affect the way we view all of life
and reality. A worldview is like a set of lenses which taint our vision or
alter the way we perceive the world around us. Our worldview is formed
by our education, our upbringing, the culture we live in, the books we
read, the media and movies we absorb, etc. For many people their
worldview is simply something they have absorbed by osmosis from their
surrounding cultural influences. They have never thought strategically
about what they believe and wouldn't be able to give a rational defense of
their beliefs to others.
A typical worldview approach to life looks something like this:
· Look out for number one.
· Life is short, so grab all the gusto you can.
· You can have it all in the here and now.
· Do not be a mat for anyone.
· If someone knocks you down, get up and hit him harder.
· Winning is everything.
· People only remember those who come in first, so do not settle for
second.
You see this worldview everyday, through television, movies, sports
events, newspapers, countless books, friends, and family. Getting what
you want, when you want it, as often as you want it, and however you
want it is our society’s message. It is what we are supposed to go after, to
model. It is presented as the key to living happily ever after. However, is it
true? Can it really deliver what it promises?
The Bible says no. Serving self first will never bring lasting happiness.
Sure, it may feel good for the short haul. In fact, you may even feel as if
you deserve to have your needs and wants met above those of others.
Nevertheless, if you really live with self-service as your maxim, you will
miss genuine, lasting joy. You will miss the Christian life and all the
blessings that come with it because the life we are to live through Christ
begins with other-service, which is just another name for self-sacrifice.[4]
My Biblical Worldview.
As a “born again” Christian, I place my faith in Jesus Christ. As a
Christian, I believe in the following pillars of the Christian faith, for they
are what describe my Biblical Worldview:
· I believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. It does not merely
“contain” the Word of God, the Bible “is the Word of God in its entirety.”
· Jesus Christ has always existed, (even before the foundation of the
world), and He came into our world to offer Himself as our redemption.
He was born of a virgin, is the Son of the living God and He is deity, God
the Son.
· Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross of Calvary as a propitiation
(a substitutional atonement) for us. His death on the cross, His burial, and
His resurrection was the work of God.
· By us believing in Him, the repentance of sin, and asking Jesus to
be our Lord and savior, we also can be saved from sin and have eternal
life. Because of His work, we will also participate in the resurrection, both
spiritually and physically.
· As He has promised, Jesus Christ will come again for His Church
and we who are His (the Body of Christ), will forever be with the Lord.
When we accept this doctrine, it changes us, and provides a Biblical
Worldview that offers us a greater freedom than we have ever had from
sin, and by asking the Holy Spirit (the third member of the Trinity) to
indwell in us, and be our guide, comforter, and planner for our lives, we
are empowered to be a witness for others.
Importance of Having a Biblical Worldview.
Why Now?
Your eternity is only a heartbeat away: a car crash, a stray bullet, an
unexpected stroke…You have an appointment and there are no
“accidents” in God’s Kingdom.
Where will you find yourself? How sure are you? What is your basis of
conviction?
Is there anything keeping you from accepting God’s free gift of salvation
right now? If there is any doubt in your mind, bring it to the Throne right
now. You don’t need an appointment. Don’t even read on without nailing
this one down... with Him. It’s your highest priority over
anything—everything—else. We don’t become saved by acting saved.
We don’t become married by acting married. Faith bridges the gap
between our need and God’s provision. Faith is simply the way we say
“yes” to His offer.
Are We Adhering to a Man Made Gospel or the Biblical One?
· We can know the truth because God has spoken
But many people (even if they agree with what we have said so far) would
still say that when it comes to the really big issues about whether God is
there, and what happens to us after we die, we can never find out the
truth. One person's opinion is as good as another. Who am I to say that
someone else's opinion is wrong?
Once again, we have to distinguish between two separate ideas:
The idea that in a free society, everyone is equally entitled to hold their
own beliefs (and to try to persuade other people to share these beliefs)
The idea that all beliefs really are equally true. Clearly, if one person
believes that there is no God, and someone else believes that there is a
God, although they are both equally entitled to hold those beliefs, they
cannot both, in practice, be equally right. One of them must be wrong.
It is true that we cannot discover for ourselves the answers to important
questions such as whether God exists and (if he does), what he is like. (If
God exists at all, he is certainly not the kind of thing we could put into a
test tube and do some experiment on to prove he is there.) But is the
initiative for this entirely with us? Or does God himself have anything to
do with it?
Isn't it at least possible that, if God does exist, he has spoken to us in
ways that make it possible for us to know that he is there, and to know
what he is like?
This is what followers of Christ believe: that God is there, and that he has
spoken. God has spoken in many ways - through the natural world,
through prophets, through Jesus - but the reference point for us today is
that God has spoken through the Bible.
The world was then and now is under the power of wickedness. John so
states this in
(1 John 5:19 NASB)
19 ?a?We know that ?b?we are of God, and that ?c?the whole
world lies in the power of the evil one. [5]
We need not look far to see the influence of evil; the growing stigma of
wickedness falling on this great nation of ours. Mankind needs the light of
the gospel to find its way out of darkness. The salvation of souls depends
upon the gospel being taught. Without faith one cannot be saved.
So states:
(Hebrews 11:6 NASB)
6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who
?a?comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of
those who seek Him. [6]
Without faith it is impossible to please Him. No amount of good works
can compensate for lack of faith. After all is said and done, when a man
refuses to believe God, he is calling Him a liar. “He who does not believe
God has made Him a liar” (1 Jn. 5:10), and how can God be pleased by
people who call Him a liar?
Faith is the only thing that gives God His proper place, and puts man in his
place too. “It glorifies God exceedingly,” writes C. H. Mackintosh,
“because it proves that we have more confidence in His eyesight that in
our own.”
Faith not only believes that God exists, but it also trusts Him to reward
those who diligently seek Him. There is nothing about God that makes it
impossible for men to believe. The difficulty is with the human will. [7]
Discerning of Spirits
Discerning - When you get a check in your heart about a person.
Scripture It tells us there are two worlds coexisting, each passing through
the other. For the most part, we are not conscious of that other world -
but it is very conscious of us. The Bible calls it the world of spirits. This
spiritual world is very real, and has a tremendous influence on all of our
lives, either for good or for evil.[8]
· Kingdom of Light - our side
· Kingdom of Darkness - wants to destroy
Against
Our Physical Life
Kingdom of Light.
(Hebrews 1:14 NASB)
14 Are they not all ?a?ministering spirits, sent out to render service
for the sake of those who will ?b?inherit ?c?salvation? [9]
The mission of the angels is not to rule but to serve. They are spirit beings
whom God has created to minister for those who will inherit salvation.[10]
Whose servants? Ours, for we are the heirs of salvation.…
· In (Psalm 91:11), we read of their protective work.
· In (Luke 15), we see them rejoicing over saved sinners.
· In (Luke 16), we see them carrying people to their eternal state.
· In (Acts 5 and 12), we see them delivering Peter and other apostles
from prison.
Angels do, indeed, have a ministry, but the ministry is to us.[11]
Kingdom of Darkness.
(Ephesians 6:10-20)
Armor of God
· Military Level – Warning
The body is at war with a spiritual enemy. We do not just walk, but we
also war. “Sooner or later every believer discovers that the Christian life is
a battleground, not a playground, and that he faces an enemy who is much
stronger than he is, apart from the Lord.”153 [12]
The believer must put on the whole armor of God that he may be able to
stand against the schemes of the devil. It is necessary to be completely
armed; one or two pieces will not do. The devil has various stratagems,
discouragement, frustration, confusion, moral failure, and doctrinal error.
He knows our weakest point and aims for it. If he cannot disable us by
one method, he will try for another. [13]
(Galatians 5:22-23 NASB)
22 But ?a?the fruit of the Spirit is ?b?love, joy, peace, patience,
kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, ?a?self-control; against such things ?b?there is no
law. [14]
It is significant that the apostle distinguishes between the works of the
flesh, and the fruit of the Spirit. Works are produced by human energy.
Fruit is grown as a branch abides in the vine (John 15:5). They differ as a
factory and a garden differ. Note that fruit is singular, not plural. The Holy
Spirit produces one kind of fruit, that is, Christ likeness.[15]
==> Lord, help me be more like You! <==
And thus follows:
· Following God’s plan
· Study His Word (by one’s self and with others in fellowship)
Small group studies, Graduate Seminary School, Church fellowship,
private devotionals
· Be consistent and enduring (fight the good fight) (Ephesians
6:10-20)
Engage the enemy.
Much of the “self help” systems are based on morals as opposed to
absolute ethics.
The Ultimate Truth.
The Ultimate Truth is a Person: the identity of Jesus Christ. He was the
most anti-religious person who has ever walked the Earth! It’s not about
religion: it’s about relationship. It is the most important discovery of your
life: your eternal destiny depends upon it!
(John 14:6 NASB)
6 Jesus ?said to him, “I am ?a?the way, and ?b?the truth, and
?c?the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. [16]
Jesus said, “I am the way.” He is not just a person who shows the way,
but He, personally, is the way. No church or ceremony can bring you to
God. Only Christ can bring you to God. He is the way. Either you have
Christ or you don’t have Him; either you trust Him or you don’t. Also
Jesus said that He is the truth. He isn’t saying that He tells the truth,
although He does do that. He is the truth! He is the bureau of standards
for truth, the very touchstone of truth. And He is the life. He isn’t simply
stating that He is alive. He is the source, the origin of life from the lowest
vegetable plane of life to the highest spiritual plane of life.[17]
==//==
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1]Discipleship Journal : Issue 69. 1999 (electronic ed.). Colorado
Springs: The Navigators/NavPress.
[2]Discipleship Journal : Issue 69. 1999 (electronic ed.). Colorado
Springs: The Navigators/NavPress.
[3]Geisler, N. L., Geisler, N. L., & Watkins, W. D. (1989). Worlds
apart : A handbook on world views. Rev. ed. of: Perspectives, c1984.;
Includes indexes. (2nd ed.) (11). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Book
House.
[4]Hayford, J. W., & Watkins, W. D. (1997, c1993). Kingdom Living :
Growing Steadfast in the Faith: A study of Romans. Spirit-Filled Life
Bible Discovery Guides. Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
a 1 John 5:15, 18, 20
b 1 John 4:6
c John 12:31; 17:15; Gal 1:4
[5]New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (1 Jn 5:19).
LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.
a Heb 7:19
[6]New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (Heb 11:6).
LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.
[7]MacDonald, W., & Farstad, A. (1997, c1995). Believer's Bible
Commentary : Old and New Testaments (Heb 11:6). Nashville: Thomas
Nelson.
[8] Smith, Chuck, Living Water, Word for Today (Copyright © 1996),
ISBN: 0936728779, page 164.
a Ps 103:20f; Dan 7:10
b Matt 25:34; Mark 10:17; Titus 3:7; Heb 6:12
c Rom 11:14; 1 Cor 1:21; Heb 2:3; 5:9; 9:28
[9]New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (Heb 1:14).
LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.
[10]MacDonald, W., & Farstad, A. (1997, c1995). Believer's Bible
Commentary : Old and New Testaments (Heb 1:14). Nashville: Thomas
Nelson.
[11]Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (1438).
Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson.
153 153. Wiersbe, 2:56.
[12]Tom Constable. (2003; 2003). Tom Constable's Expository Notes
on the Bible (Eph 6:9). Galaxie Software.
[13]MacDonald, W., & Farstad, A. (1997, c1995). Believer's Bible
Commentary : Old and New Testaments (Eph 6:11). Nashville: Thomas
Nelson.
a Matt 7:16ff; Eph 5:9
b Rom 5:1–5; 1 Cor 13:4; Col 3:12–15
a Acts 24:25
b Gal 5:18
[14]New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (Ga 5:22-23).
LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.
[15]MacDonald, W., & Farstad, A. (1997, c1995). Believer's Bible
Commentary : Old and New Testaments (Ga 5:22). Nashville: Thomas
Nelson.
a John 10:9; Rom 5:2; Eph 2:18; Heb 10:20
b John 1:14
c John 1:4; 11:25; 1 John 5:20
[16]New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (Jn 14:6).
LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.
[17]McGee, J. V. (1997, c1981). Thru the Bible commentary. Based on
the Thru the Bible radio program. (electronic ed.) (4:460). Nashville:
Thomas Nelson.
--
There's no hurry?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrmDWn6awMA
"The best way to drive out the devil, if he will
not yield to texts of Scripture, is to jeer and
flout him, for he cannot bear scorn."
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0001.html
Born once, die twice. Born twice, die once.
Wisdom of a Lifetime - Audio MP3 Collection -
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0002.html
The Last (5th) Horseman
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0003.html
The Facts About Jesus, the Bible & the Afterlife
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0004.html
The Way - http://john-14-6.com/john-14-6.pdf
A Tribute to THE KING
http://bibleweb.info/public-a-tribute-to-the-king.pdf
My Main Collection - http://Bibleweb.Info/
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