| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
14 Aug 2007 02:05:15 PM |
| Object: |
Interpreting the Bible |
When you interpret the Bible here are some questions to ask:
1. What is the subject matter?
2. Who is writing, talking, or teaching?
3 Who is the speaker talking to?
4. What is the historical time frame and current events?
5. Where did this take place and what culture is present?
6. What events have happened before and what promises
were given?
7. What particular words have been chosen?
8. What did those words mean when they were written?
9. Who was doing the talking? Apostles, evil men, devils,
angels or GOD?
10. What other relevant Scriptures should be consulted
to help determine the true meaning and intent?
11. Was it spoken as a fable, metaphor, hyperbole, irony,
simile, parable, metonymy, anthropomorphism, allegory,
sarcasm, interrogation, riddle or as personification?
12. What was the obvious meaning or face value of the text?
Avoid reducing it down into a mystery with sundry and
hidden meanings.
13. What is the Word of GOD? Make sure that you are using
the most accurate translation possible, such as the
KJV or the NEW KJ3! Most modern translations, such
as the NIV, are derived from unreliable [corrupt]
manuscripts and do not attempt to preserve the words
that GOD used. Often the idea or thought as
understood by the translator becomes the text in these
versions known a Dynamic Equivalence.
14. It's also important to interpret Scripture by allowing
the New Testament to shed light on the OT. And
do this in a 'Covenantal' mode. Also let the easier
text help intrepret the more difficult texts.
[These basic 13 concepts taken form W. Robert Palmer's book
HOW TO UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE] ...and some are mine
such as the comments about the translations: ~BEK~
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| User: "fenicus" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 12:00:39 AM |
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...And here are some more questions to go along with yours Dave.
Why does the Bible appear to be so deceptive when the interpretation
is done by a Preterist?
Did all Bible Prophecy come to a screeching halt in 70 A.D.?
If Prophecy was given as a warning to God's Children so many times
in the past, then why exclude those of the present?
God knew the destiny of His Holy scriptures, so was Jesus only
speaking on behalf of the ears that were available at that time, or
did He know that there would be multitudes on down the line that would
also hear it?
If Prophecy was meant for only that Generation, then was it
purposefully misleading?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 12:34:54 PM |
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Fenicus, this is not a replacement for your questions to Dave.
Bible prophesies are applicable to us today. Jesus told the people of
his time (and everyone since then) that (man) could not recognize the
spiritual signs of the times. Why? Because they were trying to
understand scripture through the interpretation of man. God's Spirit
was not in them.
Today the gift of God's Spirit to His children has been put down by
Academia which is the bulk of theologians and all of the religious
teachers. God's children today are taught what to believe and are
steered away from any insight of His Spirit. It is easy to see how
God's spiritual children are so lost and confused.
The religious teachers of today are so proud and arrogant. Ezekiel 31
seems to describe these people. Religion is, after all, a large and
thriving business.
Man by himself cannot open the prophesies of scripture, therefore the
prophesies cannot be understood through the training and instruction
of Academia. They cannot be understood by seeking the opinions or
interpretations of others. The meaning of prophesy can only be
revealed to those who first seek to understand scripture with their
hearts and turn to God. It is only when these conditions are met that
a window of understanding is opened and the meaning of scripture is
revealed. If one does not understand scripture, one cannot understand
prophesy.
The words of any writings are empty unless their meaning is
understood.
Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes 8:17:
"No one can comprehend what goes on under the sun. Despite all his
efforts to search it out, man cannot discover its meaning. Even if a
wise man claims he knows, he cannot really comprehend it." There has
been and never will be another person such as Solomon.
Yet God wrote scripture for us - His spiritual children - to
understand.
Joel recorded in 2:28- 29:
"And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and
daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young
men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will
pour out my Spirit in those days."
Those days are here, and all of the powers of Academia cannot make
this prophesy fail.
Shalom!
Did all Bible Prophecy come to a screeching halt in 70 A.D.?
If Prophecy was given as a warning to God's Children so many times
in the past, then why exclude those of the present?
God knew the destiny of His Holy scriptures, so was Jesus only
speaking on behalf of the ears that were available at that time, or
did He know that there would be multitudes on down the line that would
also hear it?
If Prophecy was meant for only that Generation, then was it
purposefully misleading?
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 12:56:59 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:34:54 -0700,
wrote:
Fenicus, this is not a replacement for your questions to Dave.
Bible prophesies are applicable to us today.
That is a claim, not proof.
Jesus told the people of his time (and everyone since then)
that (man) could not recognize the spiritual signs of the times.
And you think that whatever happens on the news today,
means that it's all about you. So did the generations
before you. So what?
Jesus said something else that you Futurists keep avoiding.
He said that the same generation would see the signs.
Now go ahead and tell me what "Jesus REALLY meant". (:
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 05:03:36 PM |
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I just read some of your response to fenicus.
You wrote:
"Jesus said something else that you Futurists keep avoiding. He said that the same generation would see the signs.
Now go ahead and tell me what "Jesus REALLY meant". "
You're hung up on your definition of words. The same generation would
see the signs. What generation? It's spiritual of course. It's the
generation of the New Testament. It's his brothers and sisters he's
referring to.
Oh, and what do you mean when you refer to me and others as
'Futurist'? I'm seeing it as a compliment.
Shalom!
Ray
On Aug 15, 12:56 pm, Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:34:54 -0700,
wrote:
Fenicus, this is not a replacement for your questions to Dave.
Bible prophesies are applicable to us today.
That is a claim, not proof.
Jesus told the people of his time (and everyone since then)
that (man) could not recognize the spiritual signs of the times.
And you think that whatever happens on the news today,
means that it's all about you. So did the generations
before you. So what?
Jesus said something else that you Futurists keep avoiding.
He said that the same generation would see the signs.
Now go ahead and tell me what "Jesus REALLY meant". (:
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 05:51:23 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:03:36 -0700,
wrote:
I just read some of your response to fenicus.
FYI, you need to get your quoting down.
I have corrected it for you. :)
You wrote:
"Jesus said something else that you Futurists keep avoiding.
He said that the same generation would see the signs.
Now go ahead and tell me what "Jesus REALLY meant". "
You're hung up on your definition of words.
In other words, you don't like what the word means,
so you pretend it doesn't matter.
The fact is, that the definition of words is what makes it
so that we can understand each other when we speak.
Or should we assume that we should drive a car, when
someone says to walk through a door, because hey,
definitions don't matter?
The same generation would see the signs.
In other words, you're telling me that?
"What Jesus REALLY meant was..."
....just as I said you would.
What generation? It's spiritual of course.
But of course, the signs aren't, right? Oh no!
Those are physically literal, because that suits
your doctrine!
Btw, top posting is considered rude and annoying in usenet.
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| User: "®andy" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
16 Aug 2007 10:13:48 AM |
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On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:51:23 -0400,
in article <4k07c35th7bk3294nrg6ltt8qlbq9lc3sm@4ax.com>,
Pastor Dave <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
You're hung up on your definition of words.
In other words, you don't like what the word means,
so you pretend it doesn't matter.
No, your constant claim is that a few words like "generation",
"soon", "quickly", etc., can only possibly mean just exactly
what you need them to mean, in order to support the lie of
preterism.
Regarding the use of the phrase "this generation" (Mt. 24:34),
as a supposed irrefutable proof text that all the prophecies
must have been fulfilled within the lifetime of the group of
contemporary people then listening to Christ speak:
1) Strong says it means, by implication, an "age", whether the
people or the period. You cannot, therefore, claim the word
can only possibly mean the group of contemporary people then
standing and listening to Christ. Both the translation "this
age", and "this people" is allowed, *and* doesn't require you
to throw the rest of Bible prophecy to the winds of spiritual
oblivion at your own discretion.
a) This age will not pass away until all the signs be
fulfilled. This interpretation is allowed, and alone suffices
as a legitimate understanding that presents no problem at all
to the futurist position. An age that lasts until eternity is
ushered in, *is* implied:
1. by the disciples' question that precipitated the discourse:
Mt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples
came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these
things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of
the end of the world <165>?
2. by the meaning of the word "aiwn":
165 aiwn aion ahee-ohn'
from the same as 104; TDNT-1:197,31; n m
AV-[***]ever 71[***], world 38, never + 3364 + 1519 + 3588 6,
[***]evermore 4[***], [***]age 2[***], [***]eternal 2[***],
misc 5; 128
3. as well as by the fulfillment of the prophecies of
Revelation, which take us to the new heavens and earth in
which you are *NOT* now walking. Further, *this*
interpretation doesn't require throwing the rest of Bible
prophecy to the winds of spiritual oblivion at your own
discretion.
b) This people (Jews, believers, those who see the signs),
will not pass away until all the signs are fulfilled. The
word "genea" is the root of "generation", refers to that which
is generated, and is applicable to the Jewish people, or
believers. There is no problem in understanding these people
would not pass away until all those things be fulfilled.
2) The nearest contextual use of the phrase "this generation"
(23:36) identifies the group of people who killed all the
righteous from Abel to Zecharias. This occurred over
thousands of years, and is in no way limited to only the
people who then stood and listened to Christ speak. Neither
is the phrase "this generation" in Matthew 24 restricted to
only those who stood and listened, but extends thousands
of years into the future:
Matthew 23
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon
the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of
Zecharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple
and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon
this generation.
So when He said that upon "you" may come all the righteous
blood shed upon the earth, He was supposedly referring *only*
to the group of people then standing there and listening? But
then, in the *very same* sentence, when He says whom "ye" slew
(Zecharias), this supposedly doesn't include people from
thousands of years in the past?
No, while "this generation" *can* refer to the group of
contemporary people then listening to Christ, it *cannot*
*only* mean that. The same "ye" that slew Zecharias is "this
generation", and that includes people from thousands of years
in the past.
Preterists are almost always forced to either spiritualize a
passage until it means almost a perfect contradiction to what
it plainly says (e.g. 2 Peter 3, Romans 11, Revelation 21-22),
or else impose one, exclusive, literal meaning on some word or
phrase, as if that is the only possible interpretation.
©2007 pulpitfire.net, pulpitfire.org, pulpitfire.com
--
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself
up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every
thought to make it obedient to Christ. †2 Corinthians 10:5
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this work alone to escape hell and receive eternal
life (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess. 1:8-9).
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
16 Aug 2007 03:14:26 PM |
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:13:48 -0500, ®andy
<pulpitfire@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:51:23 -0400,
in article <4k07c35th7bk3294nrg6ltt8qlbq9lc3sm@4ax.com>,
Pastor Dave <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
You're hung up on your definition of words.
In other words, you don't like what the word means,
so you pretend it doesn't matter.
No, your constant claim is that a few words like "generation",
"soon", "quickly", etc., can only possibly mean just exactly
what you need them to mean, in order to support the lie of
preterism.
Regarding the use of the phrase "this generation" (Mt. 24:34),
as a supposed irrefutable proof text that all the prophecies
must have been fulfilled within the lifetime of the group of
contemporary people then listening to Christ speak:
1) Strong says it means, by implication, an "age"
You don't even believe that, Randy. So don't try to sell it
to me. Matthew used the word "aion" where he meant
age and you know very well that he did not do it differently
in just this one place.
Furthermore, even you didn't deny that in Matthew 23:36,
Jesus was speaking about the same generation. Of course,
you later did, when I showed you that you admitted to that
and revealed your hypocrisy, but that's how you operate.
The point is, it's the same exact Greek phrase. But you
think that I'll believe that it means something different,
only in Matthew 24:34 and means "this generation" in
the 23 other spots that that phrase is used and the words
behind it are "houtos genea"? Yea, right! Please!
<chuckle>
But hey, sell yourself whatever you need to, to hang on
to your doctrine, which is all important to you, right?
Now run along and go tell some more lies about me.
I am not one of the stupid, vain people who will
cheer for you when you make such stupid remarks,
because I'm vain and want it to be all about me
and my time.
--
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
16 Aug 2007 06:48:03 PM |
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"Pastor Knave" < SATAN @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:kmb9c3lirf7on8bp3m2k3pgbkpn8ukibu8@4ax.com...
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:13:48 -0500, ®andy
<pulpitfire@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:51:23 -0400,
in article <4k07c35th7bk3294nrg6ltt8qlbq9lc3sm@4ax.com>,
Pastor Dave <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
You're hung up on your definition of words.
In other words, you don't like what the word means,
so you pretend it doesn't matter.
No, your constant claim is that a few words like "generation",
"soon", "quickly", etc., can only possibly mean just exactly
what you need them to mean, in order to support the lie of
preterism.
Regarding the use of the phrase "this generation" (Mt. 24:34),
Here we go again Satan, as you've been told and told and told but still lie.
This Generation
The Author uses three different words translated "generation," using the
primary sense of the word generation: "what is generated by a generator;"
for He is calling attention to the generator too. He uses "genea," a word
used for a natural son to designate the people of Israel generated by Jacob,
as in "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled"
(Matt 24:34). The Author uses "genos," a word used for adopted son, to
designate the church, generated by adoption: "ye are a chosen generation, a
royal priesthood" (1 Pet 2:9), and He uses "genemma" to designate all
mankind generated by Adam: "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye
escape the damnation of hell?" (Matt 23:33).
This is apparent when looking at scripture in which two different words for
generation are used together, as in Matt 23:33-36:
You serpents, you generation [gennema: generated by Adam] of vipers, how can
you escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send to you prophets,
and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you shall kill and crucify; and
some of them shall you scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from
city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the
earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zacharias son of
Barachias, whom you slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say to
you, All these things shall come upon this generation [genea: generated by
Jacob].
That's the atonement. How does mankind, generated by Adam, escape the
damnation of hell? Mankind escapes the damnation of hell by all the sins of
the world coming upon the one generated by Jacob, who bore those sins on the
cross.
Satan has been shown this many times, but his interest is in promoting his
own gospel, not the gospel of our Lord.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matk 10:15)
<)))))))><
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 01:04:21 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:34:54 -0700,
wrote:
The religious teachers of today are so proud and arrogant. Ezekiel 31
seems to describe these people. Religion is, after all, a large and
thriving business.
And of course, no one before your generation was ever
so proud and arrogant. That's right! So it has to be
all about you!
Oh, they were, you say? Well then, why did you try to
use this as some sort of "proof"? Could it be that in
your vanity, you think the Bible is useless if it isn't all
about you?
And of course you didn't deal with what I posted.
It interferes with the free reign of that vanity! (:
Man by himself cannot open the prophesies of scripture,
And yet, you seem to think that when you claim
that it's all about your time, that what you're saying
is true, which only makes you a hypocrite for
saying this!
And you can claim I'm attacking you, or whatever
garbage you want to say. But the reality is, that
all I did, was point out your vanity!
And whether you want to admit it or not, you are
claiming it's all about your time, as if God ignored
everyone, just to talk to YOU!
Why don't you ask yourself...
1) If the Bible is all about you today, why did Jesus
come in the 1st century, if He was "REALLY"
talking to people in the 21st century? Did His
time machine blow a gasket and land Him in
the wrong time?
2) If the Bible is all about people in the 21st century,
then why did God stop inspiring Scripture being
written in the 1st century?
Hmmm... Questions Futurists won't answer, because
they can't! And you might consider this rude, but I'm
not the one ignoring the facts presented, to make more
claims that I can't back up! That's YOU!
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 04:53:52 PM |
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Wow - what a reaction!
You wrote:
And of course, no one before your generation was ever so proud and arrogant.
Reads like you've inserted a little sarcasm but I'm glad you agree! I
am pretty old. It seems that my generation carries their pride and
arrogance to the highest degree since scripture was written.
You also wrote:
That's right! So it has to be all about you!
Once again you are right: Scripture IS all about me. If scripture
were not about me then it would be worthless because Dave, the bible
is not a book of religion, it is a book about relationships.
Scripture describes me in ALL aspects of how I think and live and
love. It accurately describes me before I chose to believe in Christ,
what I was like before I asked my Father to give me His Spirit for
understanding and discernment, and it describes me now in my walk
through life as one of His children. But there's more because it
provides a glimpse of what is to come as a child in my Father's holy
Family and Solomon was right - what man can comprehend what God has
done?
Scripture accurately describes all of us. It was lovingly written so
that each one of His children would be able to learn about who and
what He is, and who and what we are in our holy Family. It was
written so that the meddling of man couldn't alter what He is
communicating to us no matter how many years pass from the original
scribe marks. It was written to communicate clearly through the
translations to those who seek Him with their heart.
But you don't seem to understand this.
Christianity is a relationship - a family relationship: It is about a
Father, His Spirit, their Child and the rest of their spiritual
family. It is about God and I am one of His spiritual children.
Christianity is NOT a religion. If a teacher of scripture is not
instructing others how to understand and recognize relationships then
that person is a teacher of religion and it sure looks, Dave, as if
you are a religious teacher.
The apostle Paul wrote to the church of Corinth: "The man without the
Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God,
for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them,
because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14)
I don't think you understand what he wrote but this is only what I
discern from the few writings and responses I've read of your posts.
The bible is all about a loving family relationship Dave and my God
wrote it so that I, we, could learn how to recognize Him. It takes a
personal choice and a heart's desire. And you know, it might just be
written for you too.
Shalom!
Ray
On Aug 15, 1:04 pm, Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:34:54 -0700,
wrote:
The religious teachers of today are so proud and arrogant. Ezekiel 31
seems to describe these people. Religion is, after all, a large and
thriving business.
And of course, no one before your generation was ever
so proud and arrogant. That's right! So it has to be
all about you!
Oh, they were, you say? Well then, why did you try to
use this as some sort of "proof"? Could it be that in
your vanity, you think the Bible is useless if it isn't all
about you?
And of course you didn't deal with what I posted.
It interferes with the free reign of that vanity! (:
Man by himself cannot open the prophesies of scripture,
And yet, you seem to think that when you claim
that it's all about your time, that what you're saying
is true, which only makes you a hypocrite for
saying this!
And you can claim I'm attacking you, or whatever
garbage you want to say. But the reality is, that
all I did, was point out your vanity!
And whether you want to admit it or not, you are
claiming it's all about your time, as if God ignored
everyone, just to talk to YOU!
Why don't you ask yourself...
1) If the Bible is all about you today, why did Jesus
come in the 1st century, if He was "REALLY"
talking to people in the 21st century? Did His
time machine blow a gasket and land Him in
the wrong time?
2) If the Bible is all about people in the 21st century,
then why did God stop inspiring Scripture being
written in the 1st century?
Hmmm... Questions Futurists won't answer, because
they can't! And you might consider this rude, but I'm
not the one ignoring the facts presented, to make more
claims that I can't back up! That's YOU!
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 05:52:44 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:53:52 -0700,
wrote:
You also wrote:
That's right! So it has to be all about you!
Once again you are right: Scripture IS all about me.
Of course it is! Your vanity is too great to allow you
to say anything different than that.
And thanks for not responding on point and dealing
with what i said about Ezekiel! That was really
Christian of you!
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| User: "®andy" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
16 Aug 2007 10:16:27 AM |
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On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:52:44 -0400,
in article <0s07c3lelfdunpb24o6bd6ie4qdugtaqf7@4ax.com>,
Pastor Dave <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
Of course it is! Your vanity is too great to allow you
to say anything different than that.
Thanks for your vicarious confession. You think the time
until the day of the Lord is being measured by you, and your
scoffing perspective of time, instead of God's patient,
thousand year day time (2 Peter 3).
You claim the prophesies of Revelation 21-22 are all about you
and your time, when no futurist makes that claim.
You claim the resurrection and rapture of the church is all
about you and your personal death and translation to glory,
rather than the gathering of the whole church.
Yes, you are the vain liar, who thinks it's all about you and
your life.
©2007 pulpitfire.net, pulpitfire.org, pulpitfire.com
--
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself
up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every
thought to make it obedient to Christ. †2 Corinthians 10:5
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this work alone to escape hell and receive eternal
life (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess. 1:8-9).
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
16 Aug 2007 03:15:37 PM |
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:16:27 -0500, ®andy
<pulpitfire@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:52:44 -0400,
in article <0s07c3lelfdunpb24o6bd6ie4qdugtaqf7@4ax.com>,
Pastor Dave <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
Of course it is! Your vanity is too great to allow you
to say anything different than that.
Thanks for your vicarious confession. You think the time
until the day of the Lord is being measured by you, and your
scoffing perspective of time, instead of God's patient,
thousand year day time (2 Peter 3).
Yes stupid, we know you claim that God has
1,000 year days and claim that God does not
experience time. We already know you're a
hypocritical, lying idiot. You don't have to
prove it for us.
--
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
16 Aug 2007 06:58:39 PM |
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"Pastor Knave" < SATAN @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:q1c9c31pt9s8ob2usesj6kjd6vbkulh8kh@4ax.com...
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:16:27 -0500, ®andy
<pulpitfire@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:52:44 -0400,
in article <0s07c3lelfdunpb24o6bd6ie4qdugtaqf7@4ax.com>,
Pastor Dave <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
Of course it is! Your vanity is too great to allow you
to say anything different than that.
Thanks for your vicarious confession. You think the time
until the day of the Lord is being measured by you, and your
scoffing perspective of time, instead of God's patient,
thousand year day time (2 Peter 3).
Yes stupid, we know you claim that God has
1,000 year days
Satan, you're the idiot.
The day in which Adam died was a millennial day: "But of the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that
thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen 2:17), for, when The 7th
millennial day, the day of the Lord (2 Pet 3:10, Hb 4:4), which begins with
His coming, spans the 1000 year reign, and the judgment (rev 20, was
prophesied, the first 6 millennial days were also propphesied. The first 6
millennial days are what makes the last the 7th.
.
Of course, again this is Spiritually discerned, and again you're in the
dark.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matk 10:15)
<)))))))><
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 12:43:48 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:00:39 -0700, fenicus
<fenicus@yahoo.com> wrote:
..And here are some more questions to go along with yours Dave.
Why does the Bible appear to be so deceptive when the interpretation
is done by a Preterist?
Your attacks do not impress me. Especially when you
run away when cornered by your own doctrine.
Did all Bible Prophecy come to a screeching halt in 70 A.D.?
If Prophecy was given as a warning to God's Children so many times
in the past, then why exclude those of the present?
Ask yourself, if it's all about you today, which is quite
a vain thought, then why did Christ come in the first
century, instead of the twenty first? And if the Bible
is all about you today, then why did God stop inspiring
Scripture to be written in the first century?
What's that I hear? A pin dropping?
If Prophecy was meant for only that Generation, then was it
purposefully misleading?
Translation: If it's not all about me, then God lied
and the Bible is worthless.
But hey, no vanity there, right?
.
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| User: "fenicus" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 09:06:00 PM |
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On Aug 15, 11:43 am, Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:00:39 -0700, fenicus
<feni...@yahoo.com> wrote:
..And here are some more questions to go along with yours Dave.
Why does the Bible appear to be so deceptive when the interpretation
is done by a Preterist?
Your attacks do not impress me. Especially when you
run away when cornered by your own doctrine.
-- Who ran away? What i have written still stands undisputed.
Did all Bible Prophecy come to a screeching halt in 70 A.D.?
If Prophecy was given as a warning to God's Children so many times
in the past, then why exclude those of the present?
Ask yourself, if it's all about you today, which is quite
a vain thought, then why did Christ come in the first
century, instead of the twenty first? And if the Bible
is all about you today, then why did God stop inspiring
Scripture to be written in the first century?
-- Whats about me? The Word is as it is, no matter what you or I
either one wants to make of it. What was written was meant for that
time & the time to come right on up till the time of His return.
What's that I hear? A pin dropping?
-- Sorry, couldn't hear it for all this noise...
If Prophecy was meant for only that Generation, then was it
purposefully misleading?
Translation: If it's not all about me, then God lied
and the Bible is worthless.
But hey, no vanity there, right?
-- Right, no vanity here. I'm glad you finally decided to quit using
that word. That term is for those who's trying to claim the prophetic
word as their own.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
14 Aug 2007 06:53:08 PM |
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Interpretation of scripture has caused division of God's children for
centuries because interpretation is birthed from the mind of man. The
towers of interpretation are built by man on the foundation of
confusion, not understanding.
I'll share one thing about the New Testament that is unique through
all of scripture: The New Testament was written in entirety by
children.
God provided His Son as our example of how to learn about Him so that
we might learn who and what we are, and He has poured out His Spirit
on all of His spiritual children - those who choose to seek Him so
that we might understand Him. The NT is the final book of the water
of life - it is the book of the children that completes the
description of His family.
If anyone seeks to understand scripture by climbing the bricks of
other people before them, they'll find the tower they climb ends in
confusion.
Ray
On Aug 14, 2:05 pm, Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
When you interpret the Bible here are some questions to ask:
1. What is the subject matter?
2. Who is writing, talking, or teaching?
3 Who is the speaker talking to?
4. What is the historical time frame and current events?
5. Where did this take place and what culture is present?
6. What events have happened before and what promises
were given?
7. What particular words have been chosen?
8. What did those words mean when they were written?
9. Who was doing the talking? Apostles, evil men, devils,
angels or GOD?
10. What other relevant Scriptures should be consulted
to help determine the true meaning and intent?
11. Was it spoken as a fable, metaphor, hyperbole, irony,
simile, parable, metonymy, anthropomorphism, allegory,
sarcasm, interrogation, riddle or as personification?
12. What was the obvious meaning or face value of the text?
Avoid reducing it down into a mystery with sundry and
hidden meanings.
13. What is the Word of GOD? Make sure that you are using
the most accurate translation possible, such as the
KJV or the NEW KJ3! Most modern translations, such
as the NIV, are derived from unreliable [corrupt]
manuscripts and do not attempt to preserve the words
that GOD used. Often the idea or thought as
understood by the translator becomes the text in these
versions known a Dynamic Equivalence.
14. It's also important to interpret Scripture by allowing
the New Testament to shed light on the OT. And
do this in a 'Covenantal' mode. Also let the easier
text help intrepret the more difficult texts.
[These basic 13 concepts taken form W. Robert Palmer's book
HOW TO UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE] ...and some are mine
such as the comments about the translations: ~BEK~
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 12:43:46 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:53:08 -0700,
wrote:
Interpretation of scripture has caused division of God's children for
centuries because interpretation is birthed from the mind of man. The
towers of interpretation are built by man on the foundation of
confusion, not understanding.
Interpretation is required. You yourself do it.
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| User: "snowpheonix" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 07:46:21 PM |
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On Aug 15, 5:05 am, Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
When you interpret the Bible here are some questions to ask:
1. What is the subject matter?
2. Who is writing, talking, or teaching?
[These basic 13 concepts taken form W. Robert Palmer's book
HOW TO UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE]
See pastor dave, your problem is that you believe you must "interpret"
the bible for the masses instead of just understanding the bible. You
like to interpret things to fit your own version of events and make
up names for anybody that doesn't agree with your interpretation.
Take for example our conversation about the parable of the fig tree...
Mat 24:32 "And learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch
has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that the
summer is near.
"So you also, when you see all these, know that He is near, at the
doors. "Truly, I say to you, this generation shall by no means pass
away until all this takes place.
I pointed out to you that the scriptures clearly stated earlier:
Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous
generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to
it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah: For as Jonah was three days
and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be
three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
So the Generation he was with would recieve NO SIGN except the sign of
Jonah.
What was your responce? You got angry and called me an @$$ and
(chuckled) asking where was the fig tree when it clearly reads it was
a parable.
I've read your arguments because I took the time to seriously consider
what you had to say. I pointed out in scriptures where it doesn't
agree with your "doctrine" and you once again showed your true colours
and unbelief in the word.
You can't make yourself believe just because you want to be piose
pastor dave and I can't make you believe scriptures either.
Ecc 1:2 "Futility! Futility!" says Qoheleth. "Futility, futility, all
is futile!"
Ecc 1:3 What does man gain from all his labour in which he toils under
the sun?
Ecc 1:4 A generation passes away, and a generation comes, but the
earth stands forever.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 09:45:47 PM |
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Good response Mark. The rest is primarily for Dave.
Dave, I answered your questions and my resonses are scriptural and
I've explained them yet they make you so angry. I'm not your enemy
and I'm attacking you.
Many of the words used in scripture are written as metaphors. I have
learned this and I understand what I am writing. A legal definition
of a word goes out the window when the word is used as a metaphor.
Jesus said ""I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener." (John
15:1) Jesus didn't lie. He also said: "I am the vine; you are the
branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much
fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." (John 15:5). We are likened
to trees. (Jeremiah 17:7- 8). Trees incidentally, are used in
scripture as metaphors meaning sources or resources. If you were to
study this word you might see it too. I study scripture to understand
what is being communicated because anything written can be interpreted
differently by all who read it. That's why scripture is unique- it is
written to be understood by God's spiritual children.
I know you don't read all of what is written in the replies to you.
Dave you wrote:
"And thanks for not responding on point and dealing with what i said about Ezekiel! That was really Christian of you!"
I'm glad, I suppose. I looked back and actually couldn't find
anything you said about Ezekiel. Perhaps you could quote your
previous statement and reword what you said you wrote about Ezekiel?
I am finding that following you is a little difficult.
Dave you wrote:
"The fact is, that the definition of words is what makes it so that we can understand each other when we speak."
Actually when we speak we 'color' or describe what we communicate to
others with metaphors and allegories. When we communicate face-to-
face we are able to clarify issues immediately by asking questions or
observing body motion or eye contact. This doesn't happen in the
written word. An old man once verbally described to me a night so
dark it was "darker than a stack of black cats". I understood exactly
what he was describing to the point where I could experience it. God
has utilized metaphors and allegories throughout scripture to
communicate to us in the same way, and our physical generation is the
only generation in the written history of man who has the tools and
training to grasp them.
I understand what I'm writing about but you are locked into what you
were taught. You call yourself a pastor before the world yet you
don't understand scripture. This makes you a religious teacher. You
don't have to be a religious teacher. You could learn of the
relationships God has described and help others to understand. The
way to learn of God's relationship with us is to live the life of
Christ.
Shalom,
Ray
On Aug 15, 7:46 pm, snowpheonix <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Aug 15, 5:05 am, Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
When you interpret the Bible here are some questions to ask:
1. What is the subject matter?
2. Who is writing, talking, or teaching?
[These basic 13 concepts taken form W. Robert Palmer's book
HOW TO UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE]
See pastor dave, your problem is that you believe you must "interpret"
the bible for the masses instead of just understanding the bible. You
like to interpret things to fit your own version of events and make
up names for anybody that doesn't agree with your interpretation.
Take for example our conversation about the parable of the fig tree...
Mat 24:32 "And learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch
has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that the
summer is near.
"So you also, when you see all these, know that He is near, at the
doors. "Truly, I say to you, this generation shall by no means pass
away until all this takes place.
I pointed out to you that the scriptures clearly stated earlier:
Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous
generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to
it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah: For as Jonah was three days
and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be
three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
So the Generation he was with would recieve NO SIGN except the sign of
Jonah.
What was your responce? You got angry and called me an @$$ and
(chuckled) asking where was the fig tree when it clearly reads it was
a parable.
I've read your arguments because I took the time to seriously consider
what you had to say. I pointed out in scriptures where it doesn't
agree with your "doctrine" and you once again showed your true colours
and unbelief in the word.
You can't make yourself believe just because you want to be piose
pastor dave and I can't make you believe scriptures either.
Ecc 1:2 "Futility! Futility!" says Qoheleth. "Futility, futility, all
is futile!"
Ecc 1:3 What does man gain from all his labour in which he toils under
the sun?
Ecc 1:4 A generation passes away, and a generation comes, but the
earth stands forever.
.
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| User: "fenicus" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 11:28:26 PM |
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Married people, think nothing of it if Dave gets angry, I think he's
a good feller, just needs to be around more positive type people a
little more often.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
16 Aug 2007 08:33:11 AM |
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On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:45:47 -0700,
wrote:
Good response Mark. The rest is primarily for Dave.
Dave, I answered your questions and my resonses are scriptural and
I've explained them yet they make you so angry. I'm not your enemy
and I'm attacking you.
You snipped most of what I wrote. Then you claimed
to be responding to what I wrote. Do you think that
I'm so stupid, that I don't know what I wrote?
I don't use online web forums. I download messages
directly onto my system and have the whole thread
at my fingertips.
Many of the words used in scripture are written as metaphors.
Fact: You are trying to make "this generation" into
a metaphor, because what Jesus said does not suit
your doctrine. Yet, you would claim that super
sci-fi statements, like "Jesus riding a cloud" are
in fact, to be taken literally. That's ridiculous!
Why isn't Jesus riding a cloud the metaphor?
I'm sorry son, you have it backwards. And when
someone takes a clear and simple statement and
claims it's a metaphor and a sci-fi sounding statement
and claims it's physically literal, then they don't look
too bright, especially when they act like they're teaching
someone a supposed Biblical truth.
I have no respect for someone who cannot face what
they are doing. You place your doctrine in front of
God's word. Your choice, but don't expect me to
actually consider what you have to say as being an
intelligent response. It is rather, a game of dodge ball
on your part and it is Jesus' words that you are dodging.
And that is not anger speaking. It's common sense.
In addition, it is proper for me to say goodbye to you,
at least for now, since we have no common ground
upon which to have a discussion, when you're going
to try to blow off every simple and clear statement
in the Bible that doesn't suit your doctrine and make
things up as you go and then try to tell me about
Jesus riding a cloud and standing on a mountain
while it splits, like He's Gumby Jesus or something.
No, I'm sorry, I won't waste my time with that, because
you won't face the simple wording of any passage that
contradicts your doctrine and Scripture means nothing
to you, if it isn't all about you and your generation.
And note that word. You know, it's the one you love
to hear, when the preacher says, "We're the generation
that is in the last days!" and everyone shouts, "Amen!",
but when it comes time to examine that word and show
what Jesus said, then, all of the sudden, it doesn't mean
an actual generation any more. This is plainly simple
contradiction and hypocrisy. (:
Now if you don't believe that Jesus will literally ride
a cloud, then fine. Tell me and I'll be the first to say
I'm wrong about what I said above about that.
And no, that doesn't mean give me some long speech
about why I should think it's literal. It's a yes or no
question. Either you believe it is literal, or you don't.
--
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
16 Aug 2007 01:44:22 PM |
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"Pastor Knave" < SATAN @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:6pj8c3hrlld5pns1d112araa38v6i7vna4@4ax.com...
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:45:47 -0700,
wrote:
Good response Mark. The rest is primarily for Dave.
Dave, I answered your questions and my resonses are scriptural and
I've explained them yet they make you so angry. I'm not your enemy
and I'm attacking you.
You snipped most of what I wrote.
We're supposed to abet your blasphemy? No, Satan.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matk 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "®andy" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
17 Aug 2007 07:10:37 AM |
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:44:22 -0500,
in article <cW0xi.239$vU4.141@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>,
"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:6pj8c3hrlld5pns1d112araa38v6i7vna4@4ax.com...
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:45:47 -0700,
wrote:
Good response Mark. The rest is primarily for Dave.
Dave, I answered your questions and my resonses are scriptural and
I've explained them yet they make you so angry. I'm not your enemy
and I'm attacking you.
You snipped most of what I wrote.
We're supposed to abet your blasphemy?
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!
©2007 pulpitfire.net, pulpitfire.org, pulpitfire.com
--
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself
up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every
thought to make it obedient to Christ. †2 Corinthians 10:5
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this work alone to escape hell and receive eternal
life (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess. 1:8-9).
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible vs. Understanding Scripture |
16 Aug 2007 02:49:32 PM |
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Dave,
I am truly sorry that the words of scripture are so empty and lifeless
to you. What you have written tells me and others of what you do not
have.
I do not think that your statement of saying goodbye to me is valid
because you are teaching a subject matter that you do not understand
and cannot explain. As such you react with loud and strong words and
interject into your posts things at random that we didn't write or
insinuate.
Incidentally, you've been hateful toward me and others from my first
post here. Is no one able to respond to your posts without your
scorn? Hate is not a fruit of the Spirit and rejection of instruction
is not the way of a wise man.
Concerning the random interjections: Read your post (attached to this
one). I never said anything about clouds, did I? But since you
brought it up, what do you know of clouds and their relationship with
God and us throughout scripture? The relationships of clouds and
other forms of water do exist and they are very closely related to our
spiritual states. Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain
yourself further?
And you didn't or wouldn't list your quote of Ezekiel or reword your
Ezekiel statement so that I could understand what you said. (This was
in a previous post of yours.) I did ask you to do this in what I see
as a kind manner to try to understand you.
About literal translations:
Jesus said: "And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name
welcomes me. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe
in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone
hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the
sea." (Matthew 18:5- 6)
Jesus is referring to false teachers, and teachers of religion can
easily fall into this category.
Dave, are you aware that Jesus referred to grown men as 'little
children'? Read Matthew 11, Matthew 18, and Luke 10. Jesus provided
us with word description to help us understand scripture so that we
could learn about who and what we are. Would you preach that 'little
children' as written in scripture literally means physically young
children? Your responses suggest that you would.
Jesus used the words 'this generation' in Matthew 24:34. He said "I
tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until
all these things have happened." Jesus Christ doesn't lie. Three
jewels can be understood from this verse: One (which is scripturally
explained in the next paragraph) is that the generation he refers to
is his spiritual brothers and sisters. These are God's spiritual
children of the New Testament. The second jewel is that the things he
spoke about are going to happen, and the third is that the generation
of his spiritual brothers and sisters will pass away. This means that
the day will come when all of God's spiritual children will no longer
live on the planet earth.
Jesus said: "For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my
brother and sister and mother." (Read Matthew 12:50 - Mark 3:35 is
almost identical.) Jesus is referring to his spiritual family. 'This
generation' is the generation of the New Testament. 'This generation'
is the generation of God's holy image - the family. God the Father,
His Spirit and Their spiritual children constitute God's holy family
which, of course, includes our oldest brother Jesus Christ.
Jesus' purpose on our physical earth was to help us learn who we are
so that we might live the life our Father wants us to live and never
die. He provided us with a living example that establishes our
relation from the physical world to the spiritual world. He is the
mature Child that helps his siblings.
What I have shared is not interpretation but understanding derived
directly from scripture.
Now, about those clouds and Ezekiel.
Shalom!
Ray
On Aug 16, 8:33 am, Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:45:47 -0700,
wrote:
Good response Mark. The rest is primarily for Dave.
Dave, I answered your questions and my resonses are scriptural and
I've explained them yet they make you so angry. I'm not your enemy
and I'm attacking you.
You snipped most of what I wrote. Then you claimed
to be responding to what I wrote. Do you think that
I'm so stupid, that I don't know what I wrote?
I don't use online web forums. I download messages
directly onto my system and have the whole thread
at my fingertips.
Many of the words used in scripture are written as metaphors.
Fact: You are trying to make "this generation" into
a metaphor, because what Jesus said does not suit
your doctrine. Yet, you would claim that super
sci-fi statements, like "Jesus riding a cloud" are
in fact, to be taken literally. That's ridiculous!
Why isn't Jesus riding a cloud the metaphor?
I'm sorry son, you have it backwards. And when
someone takes a clear and simple statement and
claims it's a metaphor and a sci-fi sounding statement
and claims it's physically literal, then they don't look
too bright, especially when they act like they're teaching
someone a supposed Biblical truth.
I have no respect for someone who cannot face what
they are doing. You place your doctrine in front of
God's word. Your choice, but don't expect me to
actually consider what you have to say as being an
intelligent response. It is rather, a game of dodge ball
on your part and it is Jesus' words that you are dodging.
And that is not anger speaking. It's common sense.
In addition, it is proper for me to say goodbye to you,
at least for now, since we have no common ground
upon which to have a discussion, when you're going
to try to blow off every simple and clear statement
in the Bible that doesn't suit your doctrine and make
things up as you go and then try to tell me about
Jesus riding a cloud and standing on a mountain
while it splits, like He's Gumby Jesus or something.
No, I'm sorry, I won't waste my time with that, because
you won't face the simple wording of any passage that
contradicts your doctrine and Scripture means nothing
to you, if it isn't all about you and your generation.
And note that word. You know, it's the one you love
to hear, when the preacher says, "We're the generation
that is in the last days!" and everyone shouts, "Amen!",
but when it comes time to examine that word and show
what Jesus said, then, all of the sudden, it doesn't mean
an actual generation any more. This is plainly simple
contradiction and hypocrisy. (:
Now if you don't believe that Jesus will literally ride
a cloud, then fine. Tell me and I'll be the first to say
I'm wrong about what I said above about that.
And no, that doesn't mean give me some long speech
about why I should think it's literal. It's a yes or no
question. Either you believe it is literal, or you don't.
--
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "®andy" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible vs. Understanding Scripture |
17 Aug 2007 07:18:05 AM |
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:49:32 -0700,
in article
<1187293772.348080.267670@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:
Dave,...
...Is no one able to respond to your posts without your
scorn?
Only if you abandon reality, your conscience, and agree with
his preterist lies.
©2007 pulpitfire.net, pulpitfire.org, pulpitfire.com
--
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself
up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every
thought to make it obedient to Christ. †2 Corinthians 10:5
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this work alone to escape hell and receive eternal
life (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess. 1:8-9).
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible vs. Understanding Scripture |
16 Aug 2007 03:34:51 PM |
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:49:32 -0700,
wrote:
Dave,
I am truly sorry that the words of scripture are so empty and lifeless
to you. What you have written tells me and others of what you do not
have.
You can whine and lie about me all you want.
The fact is, you are too much of a liar to admit
that you do interpret the Bible, just like we all
do. And that is what started this whole thing!
You, being unable to admit this and insisting
that you don't do it! you are a liar and none
of your whining impresses me!
I do not think that your statement of saying goodbye to me is valid
because you are teaching a subject matter that you do not understand
and cannot explain. As such you react with loud and strong words and
interject into your posts things at random that we didn't write or
insinuate.
Hey, no vanity there, huh bud?!
Incidentally, you've been hateful toward me and others from my first
post here.
Face it, you lied and then you got upset and attacked me
when all I said is that you do interpret the Bible.
<snip doctrinal rant>
Do you really think that you get to insult me and lie
and claim it's me doing it and ignore what I have
actually said and then pretend that you're going to
teach me something, when you're too scared to
face what I already proved to you?
Go play your little word game with someone else!
When you decide to get honest, then let me know.
Until then, you have nothing to say that I'm
interested in and I won't see your messages,
since into my kill file you go for 10 days.
--
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible vs. Understanding Scripture |
16 Aug 2007 07:03:46 PM |
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"Pastor Knave" < SATAN @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:tvc9c3hoesmfjgcbkdjgfq8a8h033pa8ao@4ax.com...
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:49:32 -0700,
wrote:
Dave,
I am truly sorry that the words of scripture are so empty and lifeless
to you. What you have written tells me and others of what you do not
have.
You can whine and lie about me all you want.
Whine? No, Satan, I laugh at your ignorance, your vanity, and your pride in
your ignorance.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matk 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible vs. Understanding Scripture |
16 Aug 2007 06:50:08 PM |
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Dave, you have shown no understanding of anything you have written.
You make statements that you will not validate. Your words are empty
Dave. I'm not lying about this - you can go back and read your own
posts and the replies after them.
I haven't been upset with you at all and I haven't lied. Nor have I
attacked you. Scripture has been laid before you to show the exact
understanding of what I've written and it is the same as logic - it is
either true or it is not true. I have shown you scriptural truth
which is the foundation of understanding. I encourage you to study
what I have laid before you and look for any error. If you can
scripturally find error in what I have shared with you then lay it out
and show your understanding. Otherwise, all you're doing is ranting
and raving (and there's a Proverb about ranting and raving.)
I don't understand this last comment of yours:
Do you really think that you get to insult me and lie and claim it's me doing it and ignore what I have actually said and then pretend that you're going to teach me something, when you're too scared to face what I already proved to you?
OK Dave - what have you actually said and what have you proved? Show
your work.
Here is a question from my response to you on August 15:
"Oh, and what do you mean when you refer to me and others as
'Futurist'?" I'm seeing it as a compliment"
You never answered.
You wrote this on August 15 "And thanks for not responding on point
and dealing with what i said about Ezekiel! That was really Christian
of you!
I've asked you twice about this statement of yours so I ask a third
time, What did you say about Ezekiel? Please show where you posted
anything about Ezekiel. I even asked you to rephrase the statement so
I could understand what you're asking. Why won't you do this?
Until then, Shalom!
Ray
On Aug 16, 3:34 pm, Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:49:32 -0700,
wrote:
Dave,
I am truly sorry that the words of scripture are so empty and lifeless
to you. What you have written tells me and others of what you do not
have.
You can whine and lie about me all you want.
The fact is, you are too much of a liar to admit
that you do interpret the Bible, just like we all
do. And that is what started this whole thing!
You, being unable to admit this and insisting
that you don't do it! you are a liar and none
of your whining impresses me!
I do not think that your statement of saying goodbye to me is valid
because you are teaching a subject matter that you do not understand
and cannot explain. As such you react with loud and strong words and
interject into your posts things at random that we didn't write or
insinuate.
Hey, no vanity there, huh bud?!
Incidentally, you've been hateful toward me and others from my first
post here.
Face it, you lied and then you got upset and attacked me
when all I said is that you do interpret the Bible.
<snip doctrinal rant>
Do you really think that you get to insult me and lie
and claim it's me doing it and ignore what I have
actually said and then pretend that you're going to
teach me something, when you're too scared to
face what I already proved to you?
Go play your little word game with someone else!
When you decide to get honest, then let me know.
Until then, you have nothing to say that I'm
interested in and I won't see your messages,
since into my kill file you go for 10 days.
--
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Interpreting the Bible |
15 Aug 2007 08:39:31 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:46:21 -0700, snowpheonix
<snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Aug 15, 5:05 am, Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
When you interpret the Bible here are some questions to ask:
1. What is the subject matter?
2. Who is writing, talking, or teaching?
[These basic 13 concepts taken form W. Robert Palmer's book
HOW TO UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE]
See pastor dave, your problem is that you believe you must "interpret"
the bible for the masses instead of just understanding the bible.
If you want to have a discussion, then stop lying.
You interpret the Bible, whether you want to
admit it or not.
You like to interpret things to fit your own version of events
No son, the truth is, that's what you do and try to
force it to be all about you and your time.
The fact is, that once again, you snipped everything
I said and refuse to deal with it. And yet, you wish
to sit there and pretend that you're an honest person,
while at the same time, thinking I'm too stupid to
notice that you did it.
You made comments and I responded to them.
You snipped my response and made more claims.
Then you repeated the same procedure.
Until you're ready to deal with what I respond with,
you have nothing to say that I'm interested in and
frankly, only a stupid man would try to pass off
snipping everything someone says as a conversation.
You show a complete lack of respect for me and
frankly, I won't waste my time with such a person.
And remember, you posted your insults, because
I posted some solid suggestions for interpreting
the Bible, which every single reader does (interpret),
including you.
And your attempt to twist Mat 12 into saying that
Jesus couldn't have meant what He said in Mat 24,
only shows that you're not willing to openly and
honestly discuss Mat 24.
And your attempt to vilify me and claim that I just
attacked you, did not impress me. Rather, it showed
me that you're looking for an out.
Now if you want to show yourself to be honest,
then deal with what I first responded with,
which includes quoting it, instead of telling me
that I said something. And we both know that
you did that, because you didn't want to face
what I actually said. You like to delete what
people actually say, so that you can make up
some words and attribute them to that person.
Quote what i said, POINT BY POINT and ONLY then,
will I bother with you again.
Or in the alternative, we can discuss Matthew 24,
starting fresh in a new thread, but as soon as you
once again snip my words, or ignore what I said,
or refuse to acknowledge a point, the discussion
is over right then.
Your choice, do what you want, but I will not
respond to your made up words which you claim
is what I said and which you do, to make yourself
look good, since we both know that you can
quote my words and so, deleting them and
doing more work by typing what you claimed
I said, shows that it was intentional on your part.
.
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