| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Bill M" |
| Date: |
13 Nov 2006 10:31:04 AM |
| Object: |
IS THERE A REAL GOD? |
All religious beliefs are based on pure 'FAITH', not on ANY TANGIBLE
OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE 'SCIENTIFIC' EVIDENCE.
There are thousands of different and contradictory religious and God
beliefs. How does anyone know his is the correct one? 'IF' there is a REAL
God, why does he not appear or communicate to all mankind and show he is the
real God and that all the others are fakes? Man can accurately communicate
with the whole world via TV, the Internet, Telephone, Newsprint, and Radio.
Why can't any REAL god communicate with all of mankind in an equal or even
more effective manner??? Why does the real God not inform all of mankind in
a clear unquestionable manner that he is the real God and what are his
wishes and demands? Why does any real God refuse to clear up all this
confusion? Why doesn't a real god smite the THOUSANDS of FAKES and end the
confusion?
Has ANY God spoken to you other than in your dreams? Is there ANY tangible,
OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE for the existence of ANY Gods?
There are people in ALL religions that have claimed to see or communicate
with "their" god. It is evident that these people fit into one of two
categories. There are those that are seriously psychotic and hallucinate and
there are those that lie to impress their followers. There are thousands of
God beliefs. Which, if any, is the real God and which are fakes? Have any
dead relatives or friends actually communicated with SANE people except in
their dreams? Why does any real god avoid or prohibit this communication
from dead loved ones and friends? If there was a real god you would think he
would actually encourage this kind of authentification and communication of
his wishes and commands. Unfortunately when we die we are just 'plain dead'!
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Earth Quakes, Cancers and thousands of debilitating diseases, serious body
malfunctions and starvation that punish people of all faiths and morality?
There are over 12,000 known diseases that torture and kill man. There are
thousands of diseases that torture and kill totally innocent animals. Why
would this omnificent all loving, all powerful god create all these
catastrophes to indiscriminately torture and kill his creations??? These
catastrophes affect people of ALL religious beliefs and morality including
TOTALLY INNOCENT CHILDREN! Is this evidence of a loving powerful God creator
of the Universe?
There is a parasitic worm in West Africa that bores through the eyes of
children
and causes total blindness for the rest of their lives. There is a Fox sized
animal on the Australian Island of Tasmania that is being wiped out by an
infectious cancer that grows on the animal's snout until it no longer can
eat and starves to death. Why would a god creator punish an innocent
children and animal in such a cruel fashion?
Logic and common sense refutes the existence of any omnipotent Gods
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then where does evil come from?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him a God?
What distinguishes theology from mythology and astrology? All three are
founded on myth,
folklore and legend. NONE are based on scientific knowledge and objective,
verifiable, reproducible evidence..
The religious faiths are not founded on faith in God but faith in what men
tell them!
Religious texts? They were created centuries before the invention of the
printing press. Written, interpreted, hand copied, modified, altered and
recopied by hundreds of MEN over thousands of years by other MEN. Inspired
by God? So MEN say. Which books are Scripture? The ones chosen by MEN. What
do they mean? What MEN say they mean. Dictated by God? Just the OPINION of
errant MEN. What is God telling you? Whatever MEN (ordinary selfish. self
promoting, errant humans) CLAIM he is telling you. These religious texts are
nothing but folklore, myth, contradictory and impossible stories created by
MEN. There is not one shred of objective verifiable evidence that ANY of
these ancient documents are the word of ANY God. The objective EVIDENCE is
they are pure myths and fables.
Of all the THOUSANDS of God beliefs and claims, how do we know which is the
real God and which are fakes? What MEN tell their flock is the real God!
Since no real God shows up in person from the heavens, or on International
TV, Radio, or the Internet to give us anything to believe in, the only
option available to us is to put our trust in what selfish errant MEN say
and think about Gods. To put one's faith in the stories, superstitions,
myths and subjective thoughts and feelings of ancient MEN, of unknown
veracity, is not faith in God, but faith in errant MEN. Faith in what greedy
avaricious MEN, who we have never met and have NO objective knowledge of
their veracity and honesty. Ultimately, it is faith in MEN not God!
Real objective scientifically based evidence about the Universe and life on
earth has only developed and become general knowledge in the past 300 years.
Before the modern age, knowledge of life and the world was based on no more
than myths, fables and man's opinions and unsubstantiated conjecture..
There have been thousands of different and contradictory god beliefs over
the centuries.
It appears that ALL Gods are fakes and inventions of selfish errant MEN. Man's
almost uncontrollable fear of the finality of death has caused him to create
a mythical after life.
The objective evidence is rather obvious that NO GODS CREATED MAN but quite
the opposite; that MAN HAS CREATED THOUSANDS OF IMAGINARY GODS!
.
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
|
| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD? |
13 Nov 2006 02:40:50 PM |
|
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Bill M wrote:
All religious beliefs are based on pure 'FAITH', not on ANY TANGIBLE
OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE 'SCIENTIFIC' EVIDENCE.
Sort of like how your ego tells you that your mental meanderings are
of interest to everyone in the groups you cross post to, despite
evidence that no one thinks your posts are interesting, original or
thought-provoking in any way?
--
L. Raymond
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD? - OF COURSE |
13 Nov 2006 06:29:57 PM |
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The only "God" that is real, i.e. objectively exists, is the
one identified by Albert Einstein as "Spinoza's God". For Spinoza
'God and Nature are two names for the same reality, namely the single
substance (meaning "to stand beneath" rather than "matter") that
underlies the universe and of which all lesser "entities" are actually
modes or modifications'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza)
This makes BOTH conventional "theism" and conventional "atheism"
nonsensical. NOT as the deities of religions, "Spinoza's God",i.e.
Nature, the Substance of Existence DOES EXIST. , -- L.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD? - OF COURSE |
13 Nov 2006 06:41:44 PM |
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On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:29:57 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
The only "God" that is real, i.e. objectively exists, is the
one identified by Albert Einstein as "Spinoza's God". For Spinoza
'God and Nature are two names for the same reality, namely the single
substance (meaning "to stand beneath" rather than "matter") that
underlies the universe and of which all lesser "entities" are actually
modes or modifications'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza)
This makes BOTH conventional "theism" and conventional "atheism"
nonsensical. NOT as the deities of religions, "Spinoza's God",i.e.
Nature, the Substance of Existence DOES EXIST. , -- L.
No. The only reason to call nature "God" is if you start from deity
and it reduces to nature.
The rest of us have a better word for nature, spelled n, a, t, u, r, e
that doesn't carry any unjustified baggage.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD? - OF COURSE |
13 Nov 2006 06:56:32 PM |
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wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:29:57 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
The only "God" that is real, i.e. objectively exists, is the
one identified by Albert Einstein as "Spinoza's God". For Spinoza
'God and Nature are two names for the same reality, namely the single
substance (meaning "to stand beneath" rather than "matter") that
underlies the universe and of which all lesser "entities" are actually
modes or modifications'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza)
This makes BOTH conventional "theism" and conventional "atheism"
nonsensical. NOT as the deities of religions, "Spinoza's God",i.e.
Nature, the Substance of Existence DOES EXIST. , -- L.
No. The only reason to call nature "God" is if you start from deity
and it reduces to nature.
===>It does NOT "reduce to nature".
You just don't understand, being as stubbornly ignorant as
any "theist".
The rest of us have a better word for nature, spelled n, a, t, u, r, e
that doesn't carry any unjustified baggage.
===>So, how do you define the word "GOD"?
Or do you?
Or just deny the right of others to define it as NATURE
without you giving it another thought??? -- L.
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD? - OF COURSE |
13 Nov 2006 07:24:15 PM |
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On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:56:32 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
calee@optonline.net wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:29:57 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
The only "God" that is real, i.e. objectively exists, is the
one identified by Albert Einstein as "Spinoza's God". For Spinoza
'God and Nature are two names for the same reality, namely the single
substance (meaning "to stand beneath" rather than "matter") that
underlies the universe and of which all lesser "entities" are actually
modes or modifications'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza)
This makes BOTH conventional "theism" and conventional "atheism"
nonsensical. NOT as the deities of religions, "Spinoza's God",i.e.
Nature, the Substance of Existence DOES EXIST. , -- L.
No. The only reason to call nature "God" is if you start from deity
and it reduces to nature.
===>It does NOT "reduce to nature".
You just don't understand, being as stubbornly ignorant as
any "theist".
I understand perfectly. Your rationalisation only applies to a subset
of theists.
The rest of us have a better word for nature, spelled n, a, t, u, r, e
that doesn't carry any unjustified baggage.
===>So, how do you define the word "GOD"?
Or do you?
Not my problem. You see, I'm not any kind of theist.
Or just deny the right of others to define it as NATURE
without you giving it another thought??? -- L.
Where did I say that?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD? |
13 Nov 2006 05:48:00 PM |
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Hi, BIll.
From one who believes in God (used loosely, to denote Spirituality), I
agree with 100% of what you said. But, with respect, most of what you
had to say has to do with religion and not God in any sense. For the
rest, I would ask what that has to do with God, as opposed to your
vision of what God should be if God, in fact, exists? Though, I do
agree that it is important -- most important -- to know what God is
not, which is why I agree with everything you had to say.
I'll answer your message point for point, if you want.
Ted
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill M wrote:
All religious beliefs are based on pure 'FAITH', not on ANY TANGIBLE
OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE 'SCIENTIFIC' EVIDENCE.
There are thousands of different and contradictory religious and God
beliefs. How does anyone know his is the correct one? 'IF' there is a REAL
God, why does he not appear or communicate to all mankind and show he is the
real God and that all the others are fakes? Man can accurately communicate
with the whole world via TV, the Internet, Telephone, Newsprint, and Radio.
Why can't any REAL god communicate with all of mankind in an equal or even
more effective manner??? Why does the real God not inform all of mankind in
a clear unquestionable manner that he is the real God and what are his
wishes and demands? Why does any real God refuse to clear up all this
confusion? Why doesn't a real god smite the THOUSANDS of FAKES and end the
confusion?
Has ANY God spoken to you other than in your dreams? Is there ANY tangible,
OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE for the existence of ANY Gods?
There are people in ALL religions that have claimed to see or communicate
with "their" god. It is evident that these people fit into one of two
categories. There are those that are seriously psychotic and hallucinate and
there are those that lie to impress their followers. There are thousands of
God beliefs. Which, if any, is the real God and which are fakes? Have any
dead relatives or friends actually communicated with SANE people except in
their dreams? Why does any real god avoid or prohibit this communication
from dead loved ones and friends? If there was a real god you would think he
would actually encourage this kind of authentification and communication of
his wishes and commands. Unfortunately when we die we are just 'plain dead'!
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Earth Quakes, Cancers and thousands of debilitating diseases, serious body
malfunctions and starvation that punish people of all faiths and morality?
There are over 12,000 known diseases that torture and kill man. There are
thousands of diseases that torture and kill totally innocent animals. Why
would this omnificent all loving, all powerful god create all these
catastrophes to indiscriminately torture and kill his creations??? These
catastrophes affect people of ALL religious beliefs and morality including
TOTALLY INNOCENT CHILDREN! Is this evidence of a loving powerful God creator
of the Universe?
There is a parasitic worm in West Africa that bores through the eyes of
children
and causes total blindness for the rest of their lives. There is a Fox sized
animal on the Australian Island of Tasmania that is being wiped out by an
infectious cancer that grows on the animal's snout until it no longer can
eat and starves to death. Why would a god creator punish an innocent
children and animal in such a cruel fashion?
Logic and common sense refutes the existence of any omnipotent Gods
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then where does evil come from?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him a God?
What distinguishes theology from mythology and astrology? All three are
founded on myth,
folklore and legend. NONE are based on scientific knowledge and objective,
verifiable, reproducible evidence..
The religious faiths are not founded on faith in God but faith in what men
tell them!
Religious texts? They were created centuries before the invention of the
printing press. Written, interpreted, hand copied, modified, altered and
recopied by hundreds of MEN over thousands of years by other MEN. Inspired
by God? So MEN say. Which books are Scripture? The ones chosen by MEN. What
do they mean? What MEN say they mean. Dictated by God? Just the OPINION of
errant MEN. What is God telling you? Whatever MEN (ordinary selfish. self
promoting, errant humans) CLAIM he is telling you. These religious texts are
nothing but folklore, myth, contradictory and impossible stories created by
MEN. There is not one shred of objective verifiable evidence that ANY of
these ancient documents are the word of ANY God. The objective EVIDENCE is
they are pure myths and fables.
Of all the THOUSANDS of God beliefs and claims, how do we know which is the
real God and which are fakes? What MEN tell their flock is the real God!
Since no real God shows up in person from the heavens, or on International
TV, Radio, or the Internet to give us anything to believe in, the only
option available to us is to put our trust in what selfish errant MEN say
and think about Gods. To put one's faith in the stories, superstitions,
myths and subjective thoughts and feelings of ancient MEN, of unknown
veracity, is not faith in God, but faith in errant MEN. Faith in what greedy
avaricious MEN, who we have never met and have NO objective knowledge of
their veracity and honesty. Ultimately, it is faith in MEN not God!
Real objective scientifically based evidence about the Universe and life on
earth has only developed and become general knowledge in the past 300 years.
Before the modern age, knowledge of life and the world was based on no more
than myths, fables and man's opinions and unsubstantiated conjecture..
There have been thousands of different and contradictory god beliefs over
the centuries.
It appears that ALL Gods are fakes and inventions of selfish errant MEN. Man's
almost uncontrollable fear of the finality of death has caused him to create
a mythical after life.
The objective evidence is rather obvious that NO GODS CREATED MAN but quite
the opposite; that MAN HAS CREATED THOUSANDS OF IMAGINARY GODS!
.
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