"Doug" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
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L.T. David wrote:

"Doug" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
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L.T. David wrote:

"Doug" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
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Mistylien wrote:
(Idiocies by Mistalene, deleted).

"L.T. David" <LTDCaplan@newsnet.ca> wrote in message
news:TJYji.108840$HP3.580454@weber.videotron.net...

In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the
word of the Lord spoken by Jeremiah, the Lord moved the heart of
Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and
also to put it in writing: (Ezr 1:1)

Jeremiah 29:10 Parallel Translations

This is what the Lord says: "When seventy years are completed for
Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring
you back to this place. (NIV)

For thus says Yahweh, After seventy years are accomplished for
Babylon, I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in
causing you to return to this place. (WEB)

For this is what the Lord has said: When seventy years are ended for
Babylon, I will have pity on you and give effect to my good purpose
for you, causing you to come back to this place. (BBE)

"For thus says the LORD: When seventy years are completed for
Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfil to you my promise and
bring you back to this place. (RSV)

For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at
Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in
causing you to return to this place. (KJV)

For thus saith Jehovah, After seventy years are accomplished for
Babylon, I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in
causing you to return to this place. (ASV)

For thus says the Lord: When seventy years are completed for Babylon,
I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you
back to this place. (ESV)

The KJV substitutes the expression "for Babylon" with "at Babylon.
That is misleading since it could mean that Jeremiah meant that the
Babylonian Exile was to last 70 years. It is said to have lasted 49
years. Jer 29:10 refers to the Babylonian rule which lasted 70 years.

This has been discussed at length in previous threads. For example see
the post by H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. at:
http://tinyurl.com/2adtbp

Eickleberry's comments which I find to be interesting include

(1) Daniel BASED his prophecy on Jeremiah's prophecies.

(2) Jeremiah's "seventy" are the same as Daniel's "seventy."

(3) Daniel doesn't cite Jeremiah to dismiss Jeremiah--he expounds and
expands upon his work.

In other words, we are to understand that you are H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
LOL.

Ha ha.

I would have to disagree with (2) because the start dates are different
for Jeremiah's 70 years and Daniel's 70 weeks. The 70 years of Jeremiah
must begin with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 587 BC,
while the 70 weeks of Daniel begin with the decree of Cyrus that
liberated the Jews in 538 BC. If points (1) and (3) above are correct
then the 70 "weeks" of Daniel are incorporated in the 70 "years" of
Jeremiah.

The 70 years of Jeremiah pertain to the Babylonian Empire, the years
that empire lasted. The Jerusalem Temple was destroyed in 587 BC. The
return from exile, Seven weeks of years, (49 years), later, with the
edict of Cyrus, in 538 BC.

The Neo-Babylonian empire dates from 626 BC when the Medes and
Babylonians assert their independence from Assyria and attacked Nineveh.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Babylonian_Empire

Nabopolassar reigned 625-605 BC.

Nabopolassar became king of the Chaldeans about 630 BC. The
Neo-Babylonian Empire didn't include Palestine.

In order for Judeans to serve Babylon for 70 years, Judea had to be
controlled somehow by the king of Babylon. In 605, when his father died,
Nebuchadrezzar 11 was with his armies in Syria. He had previously
expelled the Egyptian armies from Syria he defeated near Carchemish. The
Babylonian Chronicle is extant only for the years 605-594, Guess what?
Since when was Nebuchadrezzar 11 with his armies in Syria prior to 605
BC?

I don't know, but that would not have anything to do with Jeremiah's
prophecy, as he said that the land would remain desolate for 70 years, and
that the nations would serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.

In Jeremiah, it is stated that 'the whole country' would become a desolate
wasteland. It doesn't say for how long and by the expression 'the whole
country' is meant all of Syro-Palestine. What is written in (Jer 25:11) is
that the whole country would serve the king of Babylon for 70 years. Now
read the next verse, (Jer 25:12), it tells you when Jeremiah's 70 years were
to end.

Nebuchadnezzar his son reigned 43 years, 605 BC - 562 BC.

The Babylonian Empire ended in 539 BC when it was conquered by Cyrus.

So the Babylonian Empire lasted 87 years. There is no 70 years that
applies to it.

Apples with oranges. You really like to complicate things, don't you?

Your arguments are so flawed, it's funny!

I've done investigation work for quite sometime in the past and I'm still
good at it. Your stramineus homo fabrication and red herrings do not affect
my judgement. :-O

The anointed prince most certainly refers to the great sacrificator
Joshua since he relates to the dedication of the Jewish Temple.

More nonsense.

Daniel chapters 7 to 12 all refer to Antiochus Epiphane.

Ok, now look at what you wrote above, about Joshua. You want the "prince"
to be Joshua, who lived in the 6th century BC, and the same prophecy
(Daniel 9:26-27) to refer to Antiochus Epiphanes who lived in the 2nd
century BC? See why I say your arguments are funny? They are actually
hilarious! :-)

If you were not so pretentious, you would pay attention to what I post.
Daniel 9:25 refers to the 'anointed prince'. There's a 62 weeks (of years)
lapse between the the time of an 'anointed prince' and that of the 'anointed
one shall be cut off', (Dan 9:26).

My interpretation is based on the fact that the book of Daniel was written
by Jews and that there were no Jews before the Babylonian Exile. In context,
the book is certainly about Jews, not Christians.

The reason is that Daniel was written about 164 BC and therefore the
important historical event then was those 7 years where Antiochus
Epiphane ruined Jerusalem, desacrated the Temple and persecuted the Jews.

Where does it say that the desecration of the temple lasted for seven
years?

It does not. What I should have written is: "... those 7 weeks (of years)
during which Antiochus ..." instead of "... those 7 years where Antiochus
...".

I was thinking of Daniel 9:27, 'one week of years', from the defection of
Menelaus in 171BC to the death of Antiochus in 164 BC. hmm!
I could have written "two thousand and three hundred evenings [and]
mornings" but then no one knows the day Menelaus was made Great
Sacrificator' and the day Antiochus Epiphanus 1V died. :-o

Menelaus was made high Priest in 171 BC, (year 141of the kingdom of the
Greeks?). With Menelaus, the Temple was made to accomodate all faiths.

``Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and
fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and
builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;'' (1
Maccabees 1:54)
That " sacrilege on the altar of burnt offering" (I Maccabees 1:54)
identifies Antiochus' blasphemous sacrifices as the "abomination of
desolation" referred to in Daniel 11:31.

It shows that the author of 1 Maccabees interpreted the prophecy of Daniel
about the abomination of desolation as referring to the image of Zeus
Olympus that was set up.

It does not. It shows that Daniel 9:27 was written after the fact.

Another implication is that if the mention of the 70 years of Jeremiah
in Daniel 9 means that "Daniel BASED his prophecy on Jeremiah's
prophecies" as Eickleberry claimed, then the same applies to the
Eickleberryof Moses mentioned in Leviticus 26, so Daniel must have also
based his prophecy on the prophecy of Leviticus 26.

Eickleberry is all wet. :-O

The 49 years of the Babylonian Exile must be the fulfillment of the
first "7 times" of the curse mentioned in Leviticus 26, that Daniel
refers to in Daniel 9:11.

The 49 years of the Exile are the 7 weeks of years of Daniel.

The 70 weeks of Daniel began with the decree of Cyrus 538 BC which ended
the Babylonian Exile.

No way. Daniel's "7 weeks of years" ended with Cyrus' edict. Daniel's "70
weeks of years" ended in 164 BC.

So how does the 70 weeks fit between the years 587 BC and 164 BC? It does
not even seem close.

Why do you think Daniel's 70 weeks are divided in 3 sections, 7 weeks, 62
weeks and 1 week?

There is nothing in the text that requires the 70 weeks
(of years) be continous.

The 7 weeks (of years) of Daniel certainly relates to part of Jeremiah's 70
years.

Perhaps the remaining three periods of "7 times" correspond to the
remaining 21 years of Jeremiah's prophecy, and those three periods of
"7 times" are equivalent to the 70 weeks of Daniel.

"7 times" ?. Don't confuse the issue.

There were four periods of "7 times" mentioned in the curse in Leviticus
26. They are key to understanding the relation between the 70 weeks and
Jeremiah's 70 years. The last 3 periods of "7 times" correspond to the
three sections in the 70 weeks.

We are discussing Daniel and Jeremiah, not Leviticus or Deuteronomy.
What's up Doc?

Daniel 9:2 refers to Jeremiah's prophecy, and Daniel 9:11 refers to the
curse of the law of Moses described in Leviticus 26. Why ignore it?

[of the kingdom of the Greeks]

In context it's rather a promotion of the Law for the reason that prior to
the Babylonian Exile the Mosaic law as we know it today could not have
existed. The one that existed could only have been Canaanite.

The units of the three sections in Daniel's 70 weeks vary. The first
two sections fit the history from the decree of Cyrus to the appearance
of Christ if the first 7 "weeks" are leap years with an extra month,
that span 133 years. The second section consists of 62 x 7 = 434 years;
the 62 apparently comes from the age of Darius the Mede when he was
made king. (He may actually be Cyrus.) The final "week" is the period
in which Christ "confirms the covenant with many" and it is two periods
of three years and a half, the last one being symbolic of the age of
the Church, in which the gospel goes to the whole world.

You can apply Daniel 9:26 to Jesus Christ but then that verse becomes an
allegory and then Dan 9:27 is out of context, the reason why futurists
juggle that verse to suit their own speculations.

Not at all. The sacrifice and oblation ceased when Jerusalem and the
temple were destroyed in 70 AD, events included in the last week. The
abomination that makes desolate is described in Daniel 8:10-14, and it is
associated with the corruption of the cosmology of the scriptures
initiated by Antiochus IV. It is the Church, called the "temple" in the
NT, that becomes desolate. And the "flood" of verse 26 is the one
described in Revelation 12:15-16, an "information flood" from the mouth
of the serpent. Of course it includes the flood of "historical critical"
scholarship in the past two centuries!

Here we go again, the same old witch story, "raqiya', corruption,
cosmology, Antiochus and the Septuagint. You sound like an old woman.
Search Google for - ' Septuagint Qumran Jeremiah' -, you might find
something interesting.

That there are discrepancies between the Masoretic version and the LXX &
Qumran versions of Jeremiah?

Of course you knew all about it, right? Antiochus did it of course. LOL

"In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word

of the Lord spoken by Jeremiah, the Lord moved the heart of Cyrus king

of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and also to put

it in writing:" (Ezr 1:1)