"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161652604.808590.237650@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Jesus said, "I am the good shepherd."

John 10:11-16
"I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the
sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the
sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and
fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The
hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the
sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of
mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay
down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of
this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and
there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. "

Notes: Jesus said there would be ONE shepherd over all the sheep of
God, Himself. Who but God is that shepherd, since David said "the Lord
is my shepherd" (Psalm 23:1).

David represents Jesus, and thus prophetically speaks of Jesus as saying
"Yahweh is my shepherd." Secondarily, this applies to those whom Yahweh has
given to Jesus, for Yahweh shepherds his flock through his Son, Jesus, just
as he comes to judge the world through Jesus. -- Psalm 96:13; 98:9; Acts
17:31.

The only true God, the God and Father of Jesus, performs his works "through
Jesus." Thus both Yahweh and Jesus can be said to be the shepherd of God's
people.

Jesus is the "one shepherd" made so by Yahweh, the God and Father of
Jesus. -- Ezekiel 34:24.

Concerning the shepherd appointed by Yahweh, we read:

He shall stand, and shall shepherd in the strength of Yahweh, In the majesty
of the name of Yahweh his God. -- Micah 5:4.

Jesus is not "his God", but he shepherds "in the strength" of "his God",
Yahweh.

Also, how does Jesus, if He was only
human, know all sheep (all saved of all time) without the knowlege of
God?

Jesus claimed his knowledge and power came from his God and Father who was
with him, not of himself. -- Matthew 11:27; 12:18,28; 28:18; Luke 10:22;
11:20; John 3:35; 5:26.27,30; 7:17,28; 8:28,29; 10:32; 13:3; 15:15; 16:32;
17:7,8; see also Acts 10:38.

God, by means of his holy spirit, reveals through the scriptures that Jesus
receives his inheritance and dominion (power) from Yahweh. His power and
authority is given to him by his God, his Supreme Being. Jesus is not Yahweh
[his God and Father] who gives him this dominion, all authority and power
(with the evident exception of God himself -- 1 Corinthians 15:27), yet the
exercise of this power and authority by Jesus is all to the praise of
Yahweh, the God and Father of the Lord Jesus. The Bible writers never
claimed that Jesus is the ultimate "source" of his own power. -- Psalm
2:6-8; 45:7; 110:1,2; Isaiah 9:6,7; 11:2; 42:1; 61:1-3; Jeremiah 23:5;
Daniel 7:13,14; Matthew 12:28; 28:28; Luke 1:32; 4:14,18; 5:17; John 3:34;
5:19,27,30; 10:18,36-38; Acts 2:22; 10:38; Romans 1:1-4; 1 Corinthians
15:27; 2 Corinthians 13:4; Colossians 1:15,16; 2:10; Ephesians 1:17-22;
Philippians 2:9-11; Hebrews 1:2,4,6,9; 1 Peter 3:22.

What prophet claims, as Jesus does, that the sheep of God are
"my" sheep (taking possession of God's sheep)?

No other prophet was the Messiah, the promised anointed one of Yahweh, the
branch of David.

What prophet claims to
lay down his life for all of God's sheep?

No other prophet could. How could Jesus, being a mere man, lay down his life
for the sheep?

Adam, in his original creation, was not a child of wrath by nature.
(Ephesians 2:3) He did not have the nature of sin, nor was his flesh sinful.
(Romans 8:3) Until he sinned, Adam had not fallen short of the glory of God.
(Romans 3:23) He was not a son of disodience until he disobeyed. --
Ephesians 2:2; Colossians 3:6.

Jesus did not recieve the Adamic fallen nature from Adam. God prepared his
body, so that his humanity could be offered as a sacrifice to his God.
(Ephesians 5:2; Hebrews 10:5,10,12) Jesus was an exact equivalent to Adam
before Adam sinned, a human being, nothing more, nothing less (except that
Jesus had been with the only true God before coming to the earth -- John
17:1,3,5). Jesus did not have to be his God, the only true God who sent him,
in order to provide the offsetting price as an offering to the God of
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. -- Acts 3:13; Ephesians 1:17,20; 1 Timothy 2:6;
Hebrews 10:12.

There is nothing in the Scriptures that says that Jesus had to be the
Supreme Being in order to not sin so as to pay the price to the Supreme
Being for sin of the world of mankind. What we do find in the Bible is that
what was needed to redeem mankind was a sinless man. -- 1 Corinthians
15:21,22.

God did not sin and bring sin and death upon mankind, it was a man -- the
first man, Adam. -- Romans 15:12-19.

Thus, as Paul says, it would be a man, not God, who could provide the price
to deliver man from sin and death. (1 Corinthians 15:21,22) God did not
offer to the Supreme Being the price of a Supreme Being to pay for the sin
of Adam. This would be ridiculous. Indeed, had Jesus offered himself to his
God for our sins because he was God, there would not have been any ransom
sacrifice at all.

If Jesus were God, then rather than condeming sin in the flesh (Romans 8:3),
Jesus actually justified sin in the flesh, and proved God's law [both the
commandment to Adam, as well as the Law through Moses] to be unjust, and
therefore there has been no ransom at all. If Jesus had to be God Almighty
to obey that law, then it would have proved that the Law was made for God
Almighty, and not for man, and thus Yahweh, instead of being just, would
have been proven unjust in giving the Law to man. It is only because Jesus
was a sinless man in whom was life which did not fall short of the glory of
God that there is salvation through (in, by means of) him. ( John 1:4; 3:17;
Acts 4:12; Romans 3:23; 5:9,10,12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1
Thessalonians 5:9; Hebrews 2:9) In this way, the only true God who
sanctified and sent Jesus (Isaiah 61:1; John 10:36; 17:1,3) proved himself
to just, yet the justifier of sinners through the sacrifice of his Son. --
Romans 3:26.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels
for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the
grace of God should taste death for every man.

The Logos came to earth by means a miracle. Unlike all of dying mankind
around him, he had life, the crown of glory that Adam originally had. (Psalm
8:5; Hebrews 2:7,9) Mankind, however, still does not have the glory and
dominion originally given to him, thus Paul says: "now we don't see all
things subjected to him, yet." (Hebrews 2:8) But, Paul says, we do "see
Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of
death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should
taste death for every man." Jesus, having been totally obedient to his God,
did fall short of the glory of God as did all mankind. -- Romans 3:23.

The apostle Paul calls attention to the difference between heavenly bodies
and earthly bodies, and declares that they have different glories. (1
Corinthians 15:40) He tells us that the first Adam was made a living soul, a
human being, but that our Redeemer, he who came from heaven, who humbled
Himself, and took the earthly nature -- "for the suffering of death"
(Hebrews 2:9) -- being foreshadowed by sinless Adam (Romans 5:14), and being
crowned with the earthly glory as was sinless Adam -- Psalm 8:5; Hebrews
2:9.

John tells us of Jesus that "In him was life, and the life was the light of
men." (John 1:4) Notice that John 1:4 says that "in him *was* life", not in
him *is* life? Why does it use the past tense? John 9:5 gives us the answer.

Since Jesus, unlike Adam, was totally obedient, his life offered light to
the dying race of mankind. Thus Jesus said: "As long as I am in the world, I
am the light of the world." (John 9:5, New King James Version) The good news
is that Jesus came with a perfect human life that he could offer in
sacrifice to his God on man's behalf in order to atone for the sin of the
world. Thus Jesus, while a man, possessed life, and by his continued
obedience brought life and incorruption to light.

Jesus' human body, however, was without sin. Unlike dying mankind, it had
life! How thankful we can be that the great Logos, the Word of God, the only
direct creation of God, the one through whom all things were made, when the
offer was made, and the "joy set before him," he said, "Lo I come (in the
volume of the book it is written of me) to do thy will, 0 God." (John 1:1-3,
Diaglott Literal; Hebrews 10:7; 12:2; Revelation 3:14). The life and
personality of the Logos was then transferred and he became the babe of
Bethlehem. "He was made flesh and being found in fashion [likeness] as a man
[sinful flesh -- Romans 8:3] he humbled himself, and became obedient unto
death, even the death of the cross." - John 1:14; Philippians 2:8; Hebrews
2:14.

Jesus' human body was not prepared from sinful human stock, but Jesus says
of his God: "But a body did you prepare for me." (Hebrews 10:5) It is thus
this sinless human body, having sinless life, that Jesus willingly offered
in sacrifice. -- Hebrews 10:10.

Before Jesus "became" a life-giving spirit when he was raised from dead (1
Corinthians 15:45), he did have a perfect sinless, natural, physical body of
flesh, crowned with the glory that Adam had before Adam sinned. (Hebrews
2:9) Jesus took that glory even higher when he, though just a man, perfectly
and completely obeyed his God; this is the good news: that he brought life
and incorruption to light for mankind. -- 2 Timothy 1:10.

Jesus, while on earth before being raised from the dead, did not have his
former glory that he had with the Father before coming to the earth, for if
he had it, he would not have prayed that it be returned to thim. (John 17:5)
But Jesus did not remain flesh, for he offered his earthly glory, his flesh,
his body (John 6:51; Hebrews 10:10; 1 John 2:2), his soul (Isaiah 53:12;
Matthew 20:28; 26:38; Mark 10:45; 14:34; John 10:11,15), represented in his
blood, in sacrifice for the church and the world. (John 6:51; Hebrews 10:10;
1 John 2:2)

Thus Paul says that "The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." (1
Corinthians 15:45) Jesus is no longer in the days of his flesh, and not
being in the days of his flesh, he no longer has a body of flesh. (Hebrews
5:7) The wide distinction between the Second Adam and the first Adam is
clearly set forth; one was earthly, and the other is Heavenly; one has a
fleshly body, the other has a divine spiritual body.

Christ Jesus, our Redeemer, after finishing the work of sacrificing
appointed Him, was resurrected to the spirit plane -- far above angels,
principalities and powers -- next to the Father. (Ephesians 1:20-23) He is
now no longer a "little lower than the angels, but has been exalted by his
God far above the angels. -- Acts 2:33; Philippians 2:9.

Thus we read: "Because Christ also suffered [died, NASB, RSV, NRSV] for sins
once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God;
being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit." (1 Peter
3:18) Nor was Jesus' sufferings and death just "spiritual", for as shown
above, he actually died in the flesh, and his flesh died, but he was made
alive in the spirit -- not the flesh. Peter contrasts Jesus' sufferings and
death in the *flesh* with the life he received when he was made alive --
when he was raised by God from death. Thus, since he died in the flesh -- he
is no longer in the days of his flesh -- his being made alive in the spirit
signifies that he is now a spirit being, not a being of flesh, which flesh
he had offered in sacrifice.

How shall the future sheep
hear Christ's voice (if Christ, being a man, is no longer here)?

Jesus is no longer a man; he is a mighty spirit being.

If
Jesus isn't God, He is truly guilty of blasphemy for claiming authority
over God's sheep here.

He was not being blasphemous, because he was the "Right Shepherd", the
shepherd appointed so by his God Yahweh. He does not have to be his God who
appointed him for him to be appointed by his God.

God, by means of his holy spirit, reveals through the scriptures that Jesus
is anointed [made christ, the anointed one] by Yahweh. He is not Yahweh who
thus anoints him. -- Psalm 2:2; 45:7; Isaiah 61:1; Acts 2:36; 4:27; 10:38.

God, by means of his holy spirit, reveals through the scriptures that Jesus
is son of the only Most High, Yahweh. Jesus is never spoken of as the "Most
High"; he is not the only Most High Yahweh of whom he is the son. -- Genesis
14:22; Psalm 7:17; 83:18; 92:1; Luke 1:32; John 13:16.

Christian love,
Ronald

"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161652604.808590.237650@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Jesus said, "I am the good shepherd."

John 10:11-16
"I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the
sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the
sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and
fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The
hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the
sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of
mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay
down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of
this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and
there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. "

Notes: Jesus said there would be ONE shepherd over all the sheep of
God, Himself. Who but God is that shepherd, since David said "the Lord
is my shepherd" (Psalm 23:1). Also, how does Jesus, if He was only
human, know all sheep (all saved of all time) without the knowlege of
God? What prophet claims, as Jesus does, that the sheep of God are
"my" sheep (taking possession of God's sheep)? What prophet claims to
lay down his life for all of God's sheep? How shall the future sheep
hear Christ's voice (if Christ, being a man, is no longer here)? If
Jesus isn't God, He is truly guilty of blasphemy for claiming authority
over God's sheep here.

Also, I just want to add a quick note here that Jesus said there were
already sheep for Him to die for. Thus, they had already entered the
door to become God's sheep, prior to Christ's death. There were, in
fact, sheep to die for...not that there was a death that made sheep.

LOL

Ro 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we
are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

This is what happens to the real sheep, not to the wolves in sheep's
clothing.

Ike

Reply to article by: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com>
Date written: 23 Oct 2006 18:16:44 -0700
MsgID:<1161652604.808590.237650@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Notes: Jesus said there would be ONE shepherd over all the sheep of
God, Himself. Who but God is that shepherd, since David said "the Lord
is my shepherd" (Psalm 23:1).

Notice that David did not say, "the LORD is my shepard", he said, "the Lord is
my shepard". Only God is called LORD (in all caps). Jesus is merely a Lord, not
the LORD. That is also why Jesus would be called a Mighty God, but never the
Almighty God. Jesus is inferior to God in all respects, just like he said he
was.

The Sage