Jesus as God, pt 13

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Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"Wide Eyed in Wonder"
Date:	25 Oct 2006 10:37:13 PM
Object:	Jesus as God, pt 13

Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life" (John 11:25)
John 11:24-26
"Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the
resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the
resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were
dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall
never die."
Notes: What prophet claims to be the resurrection and the life of
everyone? What mere teacher makes Eternal Life based upon himself?
Who but God can decide who lives and dies?
Jesus is God.
PS On the Eternal Security subnote, here.... Jesus says that the one
that believes on him will never die. Further, he says that the one
that believes on him "were" (past tense) dead. Obviously, the physical
body will die, so that is not what Jesus is speaking of here. He is
talking about the Eternal Life of the spirit.
Now, do a little math here in this verse.
A. The one that believed was previously dead (even though their heart
was beating). This is like Jesus saying to let the dead bury their
dead.
B. The one that belives will not die.
C. Can the one that believes be one that has ever believed before?
Think about it. If one had believed before, he'd still be alive (since
the verse says they will not die).
Ken Clifton
http://www.lulu.com/writingken
.

User: "ResLight"
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	04 Nov 2006 06:01:55 PM

"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161833833.203970.201100@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

God has given to Jesus the power and authority to raise and judge the dead;
this does not mean that Jesus is a person of God who gave this power and
authority to him. -- Matthew 28:18; John 3:35; 5:21-30; 11:25; Acts 2:36;
Romans 14:9; 1 Corinthians 15:27; Ephesians 1:20-22.
Jesus is the resurrection and life, because his God has given him this
authority and power (Matthew 28:18; John 3:35; 5:22-27), "that in all things
God may be glorified through Jesus Christ." -- 1 Peter 4:11.

Notes: What prophet claims to be the resurrection and the life of
everyone? What mere teacher makes Eternal Life based upon himself?
Who but God can decide who lives and dies?

The above misrepresents what Jesus said and blends what he said in with
Hellenistic dualism and mythology.
Jesus' words are related to the context of the resurrection in the last day,
the 1,000 years when the world is judged. He who believes in Jesus, though
he were dead, yet he will live when he is raised to life in the last day.
(John 5:28,29; 6:39,40,44; 11:24) But there will also be as resurrection of
those who did bad things to judgment. Thus he who lives in that resurrection
"last day" and believes in him will never die. -- Isaiah 2:2-4; 25:6-8; John
5:28,29; 12:47,48.
http://hereafter.reslight.net
Christian love,
Ronald
.

User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	04 Nov 2006 11:54:19 PM

"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:LKCdnaUNBppttNDYnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161833833.203970.201100@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

[snip]

Notes: What prophet claims to be the resurrection and the life of
everyone? What mere teacher makes Eternal Life based upon himself?
Who but God can decide who lives and dies?

The above misrepresents what Jesus said and blends what he said in with
Hellenistic dualism and mythology.

LOL
God invented dualism.
Actually, it's triunism.
Hence, the prophet writes...
1) God hardened Pharaoh's heart.
2) Pharaoh hardened his heart.
3) Pharaoh's heart was hardened.
Hence, Jesus says...
1) No man has seen God.
2) Whoever has seen Him has seen the Father.
3) He and the Father are one.
Hence, it is not a manner of inserting "Hellenistic dualism" into the
character, but that there was dualism, nay triunism, in the story all along.
Hence,
1) In the beginning was the Word = Jesus is Jesus.
2) And the Word was with God = Jesus is related and present with God.
3) And the Word was God = Jesus IS God.
Hence, everything is derived from a series of interlocking personal
relationships wherein Jesus is God of many, and the many are God of Jesus,
something those who seek to undermine the Divinity of Jesus--such as
yourself--attempt to destroy lest they lay down their crown before the God
of all, Jesus Christ.
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
.

User: "ResLight"
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	06 Nov 2006 08:00:32 PM

"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ovedneEg59AW4dDYnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@comcast.com...

LOL

God invented dualism.

Actually, it's triunism.

Hence, the prophet writes...

1) God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

2) Pharaoh hardened his heart.

3) Pharaoh's heart was hardened.

I evidently left out part of the original post that I was reponding to. This
may have left some confusion, for which I apologize. I was responding to:
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161833833.203970.201100@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

PS On the Eternal Security subnote, here.... Jesus says that the one
that believes on him will never die. Further, he says that the one
that believes on him "were" (past tense) dead. Obviously, the physical
body will die, so that is not what Jesus is speaking of here. He is
talking about the Eternal Life of the spirit.

It is this idea comes from hellenistic dualism, which teaches that man is
made up of a body that dies, and a spirit/soul that is immortal and cannot
die. This dualistic philosophy is not found in the scriptures, although some
misuse a few scriptures to try to support this philosophy.
http://hereafter.reslight.net

Hence, Jesus says...

1) No man has seen God.

2) Whoever has seen Him has seen the Father.

3) He and the Father are one.

Jesus, is one* his God. -- John 10:30.
Jesus prays for his followers to one*, just as he is with his God and
Father. -- John 17:11.
Jesus prays that his followers may all be one, just as he is one with his
God and Father. -- John 17:21.
Jesus prays that his followers may be one in himself and his Father, just as
he is with his God and Father. -- John 17:21.
Jesus prays that his followers may one, just as he is one with his God and
Father. -- John 17:22.
Nothing in any of this means that Jesus is Yahweh, the God of Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob, who sent Jesus.
*The Greek word for "one" is *hen*, not "mia", as in the trinitarian
formula: "treis hypostaseis en mia ousia" (three persons in one being). Nor
is it speaking of "one God", for then Jesus would have used the word "heis",
as Paul does in 1 Corinthians 8:6.

Hence, it is not a manner of inserting "Hellenistic dualism" into the
character, but that there was dualism, nay triunism, in the story all
along.

Hence,

1) In the beginning was the Word = Jesus is Jesus.

2) And the Word was with God = Jesus is related and present with God.

Hence Jesus is not the only true God whom he was with, and who sent him.

3) And the Word was God = Jesus IS God.

So Jesus is the God whom he was with? No, the fact that John emphasizes
twice that Jesus was with his God indicates that that John is not using
THEOS to describe the Logos as being the Supreme Being, that he using THEOS
as applied to the Logos to denote the power, might of Jesus in his prehuman
existence.
The words EL, ELOHIM, and THEOS are numerously applied in the Old and New
Testament to Yahweh, the God and Father of Jesus. There are only a very few
verses that can possibly be seen as applying the terms elohim, el, or theos
to Jesus, and John 1:1 is one of these instances.
This does not give any reason to add to the scriptures that Jesus is the
only true God who sent Jesus. Why not? Because the Hebraic designations of
EL, ELOHIM, and THEOS are sometimes used in the scriptures in a general
sense of strength, might, power and/or authority, as in the ruling power of
a king. Applying this usage to Jesus is certainly much more scriptural than
adding to the scriptures a story about three persons in the only true God
who sent Jesus, and then adding more and more to justify the story.
One outstanding example of this usage is in Ezekiel 32:21. Here we find the
same phrase that appears in the "name" being applied to Messiah in Isaiah
9:6, except that in Ezekiel 32:21 the Hebrew is plural to accommodate the
fact that more than one king is being spoken of. Almost all translations
render EL in Ezekiel 32:21 as "strong".
See:
http://godandson.reslight.net/isaiah9-6.html
http://godandson.reslight.net/hebraictitles.html

Hence, everything is derived from a series of interlocking personal
relationships wherein Jesus is God of many, and the many are God of Jesus,
something those who seek to undermine the Divinity of Jesus--such as
yourself--attempt to destroy lest they lay down their crown before the God
of all, Jesus Christ.

I do not undermine the divinity [might, strength, power] of Jesus, as such
divinity [might, strength, power] is given to Jesus by his God.
His power and authority is given to him by his God, his Supreme Being. Jesus
is not Yahweh [his God and Father] who gives him this dominion, all
authority and power (with the evident exception of God himself -- 1
Corinthians 15:27), yet the exercise of this power and authority by Jesus is
all to the praise of Yahweh, the God and Father of the Lord Jesus. The Bible
writers never claimed that Jesus is the ultimate "source" of his own
power. -- Psalm 2:6-8; 45:7; 110:1,2; Isaiah 9:6,7; 11:2; 42:1; 61:1-3;
Jeremiah 23:5; Daniel 7:13,14; Matthew 12:28; 28:28; Luke 1:32; 4:14,18;
5:17; John 3:34; 5:19,27,30; 10:18,36-38; Acts 2:22; 10:38; Romans 1:1-4; 1
Corinthians 15:27; 2 Corinthians 13:4; Colossians 1:15,16; 2:10; Ephesians
1:17-22; Philippians 2:9-11; Hebrews 1:2,4,6,9; 1 Peter 3:22.
Jesus is no where depicted as the Most High Yahweh, the God of Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob, who sent Jesus. In reality, the scriptures make a sharp
distinction between the only true God, the God and Father of Jesus, and
Jesus, the Son of God, who was sent by the only true God. -- Deuteronomy
18:15-19; Matthew 4:4 (Deuteronomy 8:3; Luke 4:4); Matthew 4:7 (Deuteronomy
6:16); Matthew 4:10 (Exodus 20:3-5; 34:14; Deuteronomy 6:13,14; 10:20; Luke
4:8); Matthew 22:29-40; Matthew 26:42; Matthew 27:46; Mark 10:6 (Genesis
1:27; Genesis 2:7,20-23); Mark 14:36; 15:34; Luke 22:42; John 4:3; 5:30;
6:38; 17:1,3; 20:17; Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 11:31; Ephesians
1:3,17; Hebrews 1:9; 10:7; 1 Peter 1:3; Revelation 2:7; 3:2,12.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ. -- Ephesians 1:3.
http://godandson.reslight.net
Christian love,
Ronald
.

User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	06 Nov 2006 10:20:59 PM

"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Gq-dnSwGAf0hddLYnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ovedneEg59AW4dDYnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@comcast.com...

LOL

God invented dualism.

Actually, it's triunism.

Hence, the prophet writes...

1) God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

2) Pharaoh hardened his heart.

3) Pharaoh's heart was hardened.

I evidently left out part of the original post that I was responding to.
This may have left some confusion, for which I apologize. I was responding
to:

"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161833833.203970.201100@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

It is this idea comes from hellenistic dualism, which teaches that man is
made up of a body that dies, and a spirit/soul that is immortal and cannot
die. This dualistic philosophy is not found in the scriptures, although
some misuse a few scriptures to try to support this philosophy.
http://hereafter.reslight.net

Again, it's not "Hellenistic dualism." It's biblical dualism (or, rather,
triunism), and it IS in the scriptures.
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your
whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our
Lord Jesus Christ.

Hence, Jesus says...

1) No man has seen God.

2) Whoever has seen Him has seen the Father.

3) He and the Father are one.

Jesus, is one* his God. -- John 10:30.

No, Jesus IS God in One.

Jesus prays for his followers to one*, just as he is with his God and
Father. -- John 17:11.

And 1 x 1 x 1 = ?

Jesus prays that his followers may all be one, just as he is one with his
God and Father. -- John 17:21.

And 1 x 1 x 1 = ?

Jesus prays that his followers may be one in himself and his Father, just
as he is with his God and Father. -- John 17:21.

Again, 1 x 1 x 1 = ?

Jesus prays that his followers may one, just as he is one with his God and
Father. -- John 17:22.

One more time: 1 x 1 x 1 = ?

Nothing in any of this means that Jesus is Yahweh, the God of Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob, who sent Jesus.

LOL
1) Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are among the "fathers" who sent Jesus.
2) Jesus is the "Father" of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Hence, Jesus is God of gods, Lord of lords, and King of kings.

*The Greek word for "one" is *hen*, not "mia", as in the trinitarian
formula: "treis hypostaseis en mia ousia" (three persons in one being).
Nor is it speaking of "one God", for then Jesus would have used the word
"heis", as Paul does in 1 Corinthians 8:6.

Right.
It refers to a singularity, not a number (though the singularity results in
a number--One).
Jesus is from the singularity.
Jesus formed the singularity.

Hence Jesus is not the only true God whom he was with, and who sent him.

Yeah, He is.
You just don't get the singularity.
Who sent Jesus?
The believers did.
Who received Jesus?
The believers did.
Who is the Master?
Jesus is.
Who is the Servant?
Jesus is.
Who are the masters?
The believers are.
Who are the servants?
The believers are.
Jesus proceed from us and to us at the same time.
The believers proceed from and return to Jesus at the same time.
Hence, Jesus is God of gods, King of kings, and Lord of lords.

3) And the Word was God = Jesus IS God.

So Jesus is the God whom he was with?

Yes.
It's a triune paradox.
Jesus is Jesus in and of Himself, YET Jesus is related to God, YET Jesus IS
God.

No, the fact that John emphasizes twice that Jesus was with his God
indicates that that John is not using THEOS to describe the Logos as being
the Supreme Being, that he using THEOS as applied to the Logos to denote
the power, might of Jesus in his prehuman existence.

Nope.
Limited John's statements to select ones while ignoring the rest is a fool's
game.
John used all three statements, not just one.

The words EL, ELOHIM, and THEOS are numerously applied in the Old and New
Testament to Yahweh, the God and Father of Jesus.

Nope.
Jesus is the "Lord God" who walked in the cool of the garden.
Jesus is the "Lord God" who dined with Abraham.
Jesus is the "Lord God" who wrestled with Jacob.
Jesus IS the I AM, just like He said.

There are only a very few verses that can possibly be seen as applying the
terms elohiym, el, or theos to Jesus, and John 1:1 is one of these
instances.

Nope.
John's opening is a declaration that Jesus is El, Elohim, and Theos (though
you mixed Hebrew and Greek terms).

This does not give any reason to add to the scriptures that Jesus is the
only true God who sent Jesus.

No adding required.
"Before Abraham was, I AM."
Jesus IS God.
It was Him the whole time.

Why not? Because the Hebraic designations of EL, ELOHIM, and THEOS are
sometimes used in the scriptures in a general sense of strength, might,
power and/or authority, as in the ruling power of a king.

1) Theos is not Hebraic--it's Greek.
2) "El" is simply the abbreviation of "Elohiym," so you're concocting terms
that don't even exist.
3) If one were to make a correct designation, it would be "Jehovah" and
"Elohiym," where...
A) 'elohiym represents the host as "One," being used both singularly and
plurally, from who Jesus proceeds.
B) Jehovah represents Jesus as the "I AM," as He declared of Himself, from
whom the host proceeds.

Applying this usage to Jesus is certainly much more scriptural than adding
to the scriptures a story about three persons in the only true God who
sent Jesus, and then adding more and more to justify the story.

Nothing needs be added--it's plainly stated.
Jesus is Jesus.
Jesus is related to God.
Jesus IS God.
All at the same time.

One outstanding example of this usage is in Ezekiel 32:21. Here we find
the same phrase that appears in the "name" being applied to Messiah in
Isaiah 9:6, except that in Ezekiel 32:21 the Hebrew is plural to
accommodate the fact that more than one king is being spoken of. Almost
all translations render EL in Ezekiel 32:21 as "strong".
See:
http://godandson.reslight.net/isaiah9-6.html
http://godandson.reslight.net/hebraictitles.html

You don't know how to read prophetically.
Where the Lord speaks unto Ezekiel saying, "son of man," Ezekiel is a
representation of Jesus, as the Lord declares in Ezekiel "there is an end,
there is the end."
The former is only a forerunner in figure of the second.
And the real irony is, it was Jesus telling Ezekiel to say "son of man," as
"the spirit of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Hence, everything is derived from a series of interlocking personal
relationships wherein Jesus is God of many, and the many are God of
Jesus, something those who seek to undermine the Divinity of Jesus--such
as yourself--attempt to destroy lest they lay down their crown before the
God of all, Jesus Christ.

I do not undermine the divinity [might, strength, power] of Jesus, as such
divinity [might, strength, power] is given to Jesus by his God.

The irony is, Jesus gave power to "His God" in the first place.

His power and authority is given to him by his God, his Supreme Being.

"God" is only "His Supreme Being" because Jesus descends to ascend, that is,
He makes Himself least to be Greatest.
And who is Jesus' "Supreme Being?"
The believers.

Jesus is not Yahweh [his God and Father] who gives him this dominion, all
authority and power (with the evident exception of God himself -- 1
Corinthians 15:27), yet the exercise of this power and authority by Jesus
is all to the praise of Yahweh, the God and Father of the Lord Jesus.

Yes, He is--Jesus is just as much Jehovah as anyone else in the host.
In fact, He is moreso, being God of gods, Lord of lords, and King of kings.

The Bible writers never claimed that Jesus is the ultimate "source" of his
own power.

Of course not.
The believers are the source of His power, and He is the source of the
believers' power.
That's the mandate.

-- Psalm 2:6-8; 45:7; 110:1,2; Isaiah 9:6,7; 11:2; 42:1; 61:1-3; Jeremiah
23:5; Daniel 7:13,14; Matthew 12:28; 28:28; Luke 1:32; 4:14,18; 5:17; John
3:34; 5:19,27,30; 10:18,36-38; Acts 2:22; 10:38; Romans 1:1-4; 1
Corinthians 15:27; 2 Corinthians 13:4; Colossians 1:15,16; 2:10; Ephesians
1:17-22; Philippians 2:9-11; Hebrews 1:2,4,6,9; 1 Peter 3:22.

Jesus is no where depicted as the Most High Yahweh, the God of Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob, who sent Jesus.

He absolutely is.
Jesus said of Himself, "Before Abraham was, I AM."
Isaiah called one man, without changing subject, Mighty God, Wonderful
Counselor, Everlasting Father, and Prince of Peace.
When and where each "hat" applies depends on where one is standing at the
time.

In reality, the scriptures make a sharp distinction between the only true
God, the God and Father of Jesus, and Jesus, the Son of God, who was sent
by the only true God.

Nope.
The scriptures point right to the triunism.

-- Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Matthew 4:4 (Deuteronomy 8:3; Luke 4:4); Matthew
4:7 (Deuteronomy 6:16); Matthew 4:10 (Exodus 20:3-5; 34:14; Deuteronomy
6:13,14; 10:20; Luke 4:8); Matthew 22:29-40; Matthew 26:42; Matthew 27:46;
Mark 10:6 (Genesis 1:27; Genesis 2:7,20-23); Mark 14:36; 15:34; Luke
22:42; John 4:3; 5:30; 6:38; 17:1,3; 20:17; Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians
1:3; 11:31; Ephesians 1:3,17; Hebrews 1:9; 10:7; 1 Peter 1:3; Revelation
2:7; 3:2,12.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ. -- Ephesians 1:3.

And what Paul didn't know was that He was blessing the believers at the same
time.
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
.

User: "ResLight"
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	08 Nov 2006 12:44:45 PM

"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:xZGdnYdBwZkxlM3YnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@comcast.com...

"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message

Right.

Is the point understood?

It refers to a singularity, not a number (though the singularity results
in
a number--One).

Not sure as to what point is trying to be made; however, all forms of "heis"
do mean "one" in number. A singularity is "one". The question is, in what
way is Jesus "one" with his Father, and in what way did he pray for his
followers that have this same oneness with his Father, as well as with
himself? I have shown that it is not a oneness of being, or of God.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1520&version=kjv

Jesus is from the singularity.

Jesus, being the firstborn creature, is indeed "from" the one true God.
(Colossians 1:15) He is also "from" his God in that his God sent him into
the world; Jesus left the glory he had with his God (John 17:3,5), and was
sent by his God into the world of mankind. (John 10:36) The followers of
Jesus, having been separated from the world (John 15:19), are also "sent"
into the world on a mission. (John 17:18) Jesus is not the one true God that
he is from. -- John 17:1,5.

Jesus formed the singularity.

Jesus is the alleged triune God?
As I have shown, Jesus prayed for his followers to be of this singularity --
oneness -- with him and with his God and Father. Praise Yah!
If Jesus' oneness with his God and Father means that Jesus is his God, then,
in effect, Jesus was praying for his followers to become the God and Father
of Jesus with Jesus.
Christian love,
Ronald
.

User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	08 Nov 2006 11:49:19 PM

"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6-CdnUTzGPsOuM_YnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@comcast.com...

"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:xZGdnYdBwZkxlM3YnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@comcast.com...

"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message

Right.

Is the point understood?

No, you got the fact right, but totally missed the meaning.

It refers to a singularity, not a number (though the singularity results
in
a number--One).

Not sure as to what point is trying to be made;

Of course not.
You don't perceive the interlocking triangles of interpretation, and the
interlocking frames of reference.

however, all forms of "heis"
do mean "one" in number.

You still don't get it.
"One" is one.

A singularity is "one". The question is, in what way is Jesus "one" with
his Father, and in what way did he pray for his followers that have this
same oneness with his Father, as well as with himself?

Jesus proceeded from the host, which is "ONE."
The host proceed from Jesus, who is "ONE."

I have shown that it is not a oneness of being, or of God.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1520&version=kjv

No, you have "shown" an unbiblical fabrication.

Jesus is from the singularity.

Jesus, being the firstborn creature, is indeed "from" the one true God.

Jesus IS the "one true God."

(Colossians 1:15) He is also "from" his God in that his God sent him into
the world;

And Jesus' "God" is His Mother and Father, Christianity and Israel.
Jesus is the "Son" of father Israel and mother Christianity, but, at the
same time, Jesus is Father of brother Israel and sister Christianity.
What part of "singularity" don't you understand?

Jesus left the glory he had with his God (John 17:3,5),

Which glory the sons of God ALSO had (to their extent).
And yet men only now have "the power to BECOME the sons of God," and yet the
sons of God are not even determined until the end of the story.

and was sent by his God into the world of mankind.

LOL
You assume that sent means from a point before rather than a point after,
when Daniel specifically documents the coronation and sending of Jesus at
the END of the story, not the beginning of it.

(John 10:36) The followers of Jesus, having been separated from the world
(John 15:19), are also "sent" into the world on a mission. (John 17:18)

Which has nothing to do with where they'll be "sent" after the
resurrection--back to the beginning of the story.

Jesus is not the one true God that he is from. -- John 17:1,5.

Yeah, He is.

Jesus formed the singularity.

Jesus is the alleged triune God?

Not alleged.
IS.

As I have shown, Jesus prayed for his followers to be of this
singularity -- oneness -- with him and with his God and Father. Praise
Yah!

You don't even know what a "singularity" is, otherwise you would know how
stupid your statement is.

If Jesus' oneness with his God and Father means that Jesus is his God,
then, in effect, Jesus was praying for his followers to become the God and
Father of Jesus with Jesus.

Exactly.
"Whosoever would be great among you, he must be your servant; and
whoever would be first among you, he must be slave of all."
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
.

User: "ResLight"
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	11 Nov 2006 08:57:19 PM

I am skipping many of the assertions simply made without scriptural
reference.
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message
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You don't perceive the interlocking triangles of interpretation, and the
interlocking frames of reference.

Evidently a reference to all the added-on triune philosophy that Satan
desires for one to add on to the scriptures and read into the scriptures.

however, all forms of "heis"
do mean "one" in number.

You still don't get it.

"One" is one.

The Koine Greek, however, does have three designations for "one": heis
(masculine); hen (neuter of heis); and mia (feminine). Each designation is
used relative to what is being spoken, in agreement the nouns and pronouns
being referred to.

Jesus proceeded from the host, which is "ONE."

So what is the Greek word that would supply for "host"?
Sabaoth?
This word is feminine, as used in Romans 9:23 and James 5:4 This word would
call
for the feminine MIA, not the neuter HEN, as Jesus used.
http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=greeklexicon&isindex=Sabaoth
Saboath is a Greek rendering of the Hebrew tsbadah , which is also feminine.
http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=hebrewlexicon&isindex=6635
Likewise the Greek word "Murias" is feminine, and would require MIA, not
HEN.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3461&version=kjv

The host proceed from Jesus, who is "ONE."

Who are included in this "host" being referring to, and what
scripture(s) speak of such? If "the host" is meant to be the three persons
of the alledged triune God, then the above would mean that Jesus is himself
all three of these persons, which is certainly a denial of what is usually
thought to be the trinity.
Certainly, however, the angels in heaven are host. Likewise, those who
receive spirit bodies in the resurrection could be considered part of this
host. None of this means that any of these become Yahweh, the only Most
High.

I have shown that it is not a oneness of being, or of God.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1520&version=kjv

No, you have "shown" an unbiblical fabrication.

Since I have shown what the Bible says, and what it does not say, it is
indeed Biblical.

Jesus is from the singularity.

Jesus, being the firstborn creature, is indeed "from" the one true God.

Jesus IS the "one true God."

No scripture ever says such a thing. What the scripture does plainly tell us
is that Jesus was sent by the only true God. -- John 17:3.
Let us supply the one true God for "Jesus" (or equivalents) in a few
scriptures:
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and one true
God, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:17 - For God didn't send his one true God into the world to judge
the world, but that the world should be saved through him.
John 8:42 - Therefore the one true God said to them, "If God were your
Father, you would love me, for I [the one true God] came forth and have
come from God. For neither have I come of [the one true God], but he sent
[the one true God].
John 17:3 - This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true
God, and him whom you [the only true God] sent, the one true God.
Acts 2:36 - "Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God
has made [the one true God] both Lord and Christ, this [one true God] whom
you
crucified."
Romans 15:6 - that with one accord you may with one mouth glorify the God
and Father of [the one true God].
Philippians 2:11 - and that every tongue would confess that [the one true
God] is Lord, to the glory of God, the Father.
1 John 4:9 - By this was God's love revealed in us, that God has sent [the
one true God] into the world that we might live through him.
Revelation 1:1 - This is the Revelation of [the one true God], which God
gave [the one true God] to show to [the one true God]'s servants the things
which must happen soon, which he sent and made known by his angel to his
servant, John,
Revelation 1:2 who testified to God's word, and of the testimony of [the one
true God], about everything that he saw.
Revelation 1:4 John, to the seven assemblies that are in Asia: Grace to you
and peace, from God, who is and who was and who is to come; and from the
seven Spirits who are before his throne;
Revelation 1:5 and from [the one true God], the faithful witness, the
firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who
loves us, and washed us from our sins by [the one true God]'s blood;
Revelation 1:6 and [the one true God] made us to be a kingdom, priests to
[the one true God]'s God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion
forever and ever. Amen.

(Colossians 1:15) He is also "from" his God in that his God sent him into
the world;

And Jesus' "God" is His Mother and Father, Christianity and Israel.

So, the one true God's "God" is the one true God's Mother, the one true
God, and Father, the one true God, Christianity, the one true God, and
Israel, the one true God.
So do those of the creation who, in the age to come when the sons of God are
revealed to the world of mankind, are delivered from the bondage of
corruption into the glorious liberty of the sons of God, also become the God
and Father of Jesus? -- Romans 8:19-21.

Jesus is the "Son" of father Israel and mother Christianity, but, at the
same time, Jesus is Father of brother Israel and sister Christianity.

Sounds like Nimrod worship (Nimrod married his own mother, making himself
his own Father, and his own son, and his mother/wife his own daughter, and
his own sister, etc.)

What part of "singularity" don't you understand?

It is not that I don't understand "singularity". I do not accept what is
being added to and read into the scriptures, as well as the redefintion of
term which Ike seems to be giving to the word "singularity".

Jesus left the glory he had with his God (John 17:3,5),

Which glory the sons of God ALSO had (to their extent).

If by "sons of God" you mean the angels spoken of Job 1:6; 2:1; and 38:7,
yes, they did/do have the glory of a spiritual body in heaven, else they
would not be able see God in heaven. (Matthew 28:19) The faithful angels
have not fallen short of the glory of God due to sin. -- Romans 3:23.

And yet men only now have "the power to BECOME the sons of God," and yet
the sons of God are not even determined until the end of the story.

The sons of God -- the gods --to whom the LOGOS came (John 10:30) are indeed
the sons who are begotten again of the spirit. Such, however, did not have
such a glory with God before coming to the earth, nor can it be said, as
Jesus said, that they will "return" to where they had been before. (John
17:5; 6:62) They are indeed begotten as sons before the "last day", when
they are actually raised as sons in the resurrection body. The actual
"power" to be sons could not actually be until Jesus had presented his body
as the ransom sacrifice; thus
those of faith who died before were justified, begotten of the spirit, for
lack of better expression, retroactive to the offering of ransom sacrifice
of Jesus. -- Galatians 4:29.
The sons in this age have the token, earnest, of the spirit.
2 Corinthians 1:21 Now he who establishes us with you in Christ, and
anointed us, is God;
2 Corinthians 1:22 who also sealed us, and gave us the down payment [token,
earnest, Strong's #728] of the Spirit in our hearts.
2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now he who made us for this very thing is God, who also
gave to us the down payment [token, earnest, Strong's #728] of the Spirit.
Paul elsewhere says:
Romans 8:23 - Not only so, but ourselves also, who have the first fruits of
the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for adoption,
the redemption of our body.
In other words, believers in this age receive the 'first fruits' of the
spirit that is to poured out upon all flesh in the age to come.
The word "adoption" can be misleading, as in English, this word is used
almost exclusively of a son of one father being adopted by the son of
another father. God's sons, however, become sons through the begettal of the
holy spirit, not by such an adoption.
The Greek word huiothesia is actually taken from two Greek words: Huios
{son] and Tithemi [set, put, place]. While the begettal of the spirit takes
place in this age, the actual birth does not take place until God gives to
the new creature a body as it pleases him. (1 Corinthians 15:38) Then the
placement as a son is completed.
Thus, it is like taking from the age to come, when the spirit will be poured
out upon all flesh, and applying this to this age. It is only in this means
that Peter could quote a scripture (Joel 2:28), which is pertaining to the
age to come, and apply it to believers in this age. (Acts 2:17) We find
something similar in Hebrews 6:5, where we read of those who have "tasted
the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come."

and was sent by his God into the world of mankind.

LOL

You assume that sent means from a point before rather than a point after,
when Daniel specifically documents the coronation and sending of Jesus at
the END of the story, not the beginning of it.

I am supposing that this is in reference to Daniel 7. Yes, this is speaking
of the results of Jesus' being sent into the world by his God. That does not
mean that Jesus was not sent into the world of mankind by the only true God.
Yes, God did send Jesus into the world that was made through him, not for
the purpose of coronation, but for the purpose delaring the only true God,
and to offer himself as a sacrifice for the world of mankind, so that the
judgment through Adam made be set aside, as well as the condemnation of the
Law, in order that Isarel and the world might judged anew in the last day.
John 1:10 - He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the
world didn't recognize him.
John 1:14 - The Word became flesh, and lived among us.
John 3:17 - For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world,
but that the world might be saved through him. -- RSV
John 12:47 - If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't
judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48 - He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who
judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.
Galatians 4:4 - But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth his
Son, born to a woman, born under the law
Of course, in reality, Daniel is speaking of the time when God will bless
all
the nations through the seed of Abraham in the last day of judgment; the
dominion and kingdom given to Jesus by the Yahweh, however, is actually
without end. Jesus' being sent into the world of mankind as spoken of in
John 10:36 was not for the purpose of blessing all the families of the earth
at that time, nor for the purpose of becoming king of the world at that
time, but rather to accomplish several goals, the main one being to given
himself as a ransom for all so that the there could be a future
blessings/judgment of all the nations of the earth (Genesis 18:18; 22:18;
26:4; Psalms 72; 96; 98; Isaiah 2:2-4; 25:6-8; Daniel 2:44; 7:John 5:28,29;
12:47,48) by means of the seed of Abraham (Jesus and those who make up the
Christ). (Daniel 7:22,27; John 5:22; Galatians 3:7,16,26,29; 1 Corinthians
6:2,3; Revelation 20:4) "God has sent his only born Son into the world that
we might live through him." (1 John 4:9)

(John 10:36) The followers of Jesus, having been separated from the world
(John 15:19), are also "sent" into the world on a mission. (John 17:18)

Which has nothing to do with where they'll be "sent" after the
resurrection--back to the beginning of the story.

I never said it had anything to do with where they'll be "sent" after the
resurrection. Why should it?

You don't even know what a "singularity" is, otherwise you would know how
stupid your statement is.

More correctly, "singular" could be supplied as a synonym for "one".
Nevertheless, here are the definitions of singularity from the dictionary:
++++++
1. The quality or condition of being singular.
++++++
I will hold this and come back to this later, since this would involve
getting the definitions of "singular".
++++++
2. A trait marking one as distinct from others; a peculiarity.
++++++
Yahweh, of course, is a singularity in the trait of being the distinctly the
only Most High in the universe, as well as being uncreated. This does not
make him a being of more than one person.
++++++
3. Something uncommon or unusual.
++++++
Again, Yahweh is a singularity in the same traits mentioned before.
++++++
4. Astrophysics A point in space-time at which gravitational forces cause
matter to have infinite density and infinitesimal volume, and space and time
to become infinitely distorted.
++++++
In some sense, I suppose one could apply such a definition to Yahweh, but
this would not make Yahweh more than one person.
++++++
5. Mathematics A point at which the derivative does not exist for a given
function but every neighborhood of which contains points for which the
derivative exists. Also called singular point.
++++++
This would be a product of God's creation.
Having found nothing in definitions 2 through five that would mean that
Yahweh is a triune God, let us return to defintion #1, and look at the
definitions for singular:
++++++
1. Being only one; individual.
++++++
This certainly applies to Yahweh; Yahweh is one Yahweh, not more than one
Yahweh.
++++++
2. Being the only one of a kind; unique.
++++++
Yahweh is the singular Most High in the universe. He is also the singular
uncreated being in the universe.
++++++
3. Being beyond what is ordinary or usual; remarkable.
++++++
Yahweh, being the Most High, and being the only uncreated being, is
certainly beyond what is ordinary or usual.
++++++
4. Deviating from the usual or expected; odd. See Synonyms at strange.
++++++
See comments on four.
++++++
5. Grammar a. Of, relating to, or being a noun, pronoun, or adjective
denoting a single person or thing or several entities considered as a single
unit. b. Of, relating to, or being a verb expressing the action or state of
a single subject.
++++++
This would be the only definition that could possibly apply to the idea that
Yahweh is more than one person. Nevertheless, in this definition, none of
the separate entities that are considered parts of the single *are* the
singularity of which the separate entity is a part of. In other words,
applying this definition to the three usually claimed to be God (the Supreme
Being) would mean that the Father is *not* the singularity, but rather a
part of the singularity; the "son" is not the singularity, but a part of the
singularity; the holy spirit is *not* the singularity, but rather a part of
the singularity.
If this is what Ike means, that God is made of many parts, none of which is
"God" by itself, but when all the parts are put together, then we have the
singularity of "God", then the word "singularity" would apply to such a
concept of God. One would have add this concept to, and read this concept
into the scriptures.
++++++
6. Logic Of or relating to the specific as distinguished from the general;
individual.
++++++

If Jesus' oneness with his God and Father means that Jesus is his God,
then, in effect, Jesus was praying for his followers to become the God
and Father of Jesus with Jesus.

Exactly.

So, then, the only true God is made up of thousands, perhaps millions, even
billions of separate entities, none of which are "God", but when applied as
one unit, are "God"? Such a thought has to be added to and read into what
Jesus was saying.
Additionally, such an aspiration would actually be imitating the attitude of
one spoken of in Isaiah 14:14:
Isaiah 14:13,14 - You said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I
will exalt my throne above the stars of God; and I will sit on the mountain
of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north; I will ascend above
the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.
There certainly is no scripture that says the the followers of Jesus become
the God and Father of Jesus.
Christian love,
Ronald
http://godandson.reslight.net
.

User: "ResLight"
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	08 Nov 2006 12:08:03 PM

"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message

Nothing in any of this means that Jesus is Yahweh, the God of Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob, who sent Jesus.

LOL

1) Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are among the "fathers" who sent Jesus.

Where can one find this in the Bible? Jesus, by being born of Mary, was
accounted as offspring of the fathers, but I don't know of any scripture
that says that the fathers "sent" Jesus. What is the purpose of saying such
a thing?
Christian love,
Ronald
http://godandson.reslight.net
.

User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	08 Nov 2006 11:26:49 PM

"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message

Nothing in any of this means that Jesus is Yahweh, the God of Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob, who sent Jesus.

LOL

1) Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are among the "fathers" who sent Jesus.

LOL
John calls Jesus both the root AND offspring of David.
Jesus both started the process and was a result of the process at the same
time.
Hence, He started them, and they started Him.
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
.

User: "ResLight"
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	11 Nov 2006 08:18:40 PM

"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message
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1) Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are among the "fathers" who sent Jesus.

LOL

John calls Jesus both the root AND offspring of David.

Yes, Jesus, having become the life-giving spirit (1 Corinthians 15:45),
obtaining from his God and Father the power of life in himself to give to
others in raising the dead (John 5:21-30), is now reckoned as not only the
offspring [son] of David, but also as the root [life-giver, father] of David
(Revelation 5:5; 22:16), as foretold in the prophecies of Isaiah. (Isaiah
11:1,10; Romans 15:12) His fathers actually become his children in the day
of regeneration. (Psalm 45:16; Matthew 19:28) Such regeneration, however, is
already reckoned to them, as it is reckoned to Christian believers in this
age. (Titus 3:5) Paul, in connection with the raising of the dead, says that
God calls things that are not as though they were (Romans 4:17), and thus to
God, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are living already (Luke 20:18), having been
reckoned, accounted, imputed, as justified as illustrated in Abraham (Romans
4:22), in view the resurrection day when they will be raised from the
dead. -- Matthew 22:31,32; Mark 12:26,27; Luke 20:37,38; John 5:28,29; 1
Corinthians 15:32; Hebrews 11:13. "For to this end Christ died, rose, and
lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living." --
Romans 14:9. Thus when David is raised to life again by Jesus, Jesus will be
David's Lord, but he is already reckoned so, since, in view of the
resurrection, God counts things that are not as though they were.
None of this means that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who
sent Jesus.
http://godandson.reslight.net/son-of-man.html
Christian love,
Ronald
.

User: "ResLight"
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	09 Nov 2006 02:05:41 PM

"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message
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Nothing in any of this means that Jesus is Yahweh, the God of Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob, who sent Jesus.

LOL

1) Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are among the "fathers" who sent Jesus.

LOL

John calls Jesus both the root AND offspring of David.

Jesus both started the process and was a result of the process at the same
time.

Hence, He started them, and they started Him.

Jesus was the firstborn creature of God, not of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. --
Colossians 1:15.
Jesus was counted, or reckoned, as the seed of David because of his earthly
parents, even though Jesus' actual father was God in heaven. As a result,
Jesus' human soul, including his body and his blood, was not tainted by the
sin of Adam, as are the rest of mankind. Jesus spoke of his body of flesh
and true bread that came down from heaven. How did Jesus' body come down
from heaven? Does this mean that Jesus was a human with a body of flesh
before coming to into the world? We know that Jesus' body was formed in the
womb of Mary, but the conception was from the God of Jesus by means of the
holy spirit. (Matthew 1:20) However, the scripture also says that Jesus'
body was prepared for him by his God, (Hebrews 10:5) for the purpose of its
being an offering for sin. (Hebrews 10:10) Jesus spoke of his body, his
flesh, in John 6:32 as "bread of life" that was from the only true God, his
Father, who sent Jesus. "My Father gives you the true bread out of heaven."
(John 17:1,3) Thus, while his body was formed in the womb of Mary, the God
of Jesus was the one who prepared his body. His body was not tainted by the
sinful flesh of mankind. (Romans 8:3) Jesus was without sin, he never fell
short of the glory of God, as those who are dying "in Adam". (Romans 3:23; 1
Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 John 3:5) He was not 'by
nature a child of wrath' as mankind in general, due to the sin of Adam.
(Ephesians 2:3) Having no sin, the was the "bread of life". In him was life,
a sinless life, equal ot that of Adam's before Adam sinned, which he could
offer in sacrifice for the world of mankind dying in Adam -- the just for
the unjust. (John 1:4; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 1 Peter 3:18) He could offer his
flesh -- his humanity -- as a sacrifice for sin, and thus by our
symbolically eating and partaking of his flesh, through faith in him, we can
have life.
http://godandson.reslight.net/son-of-man.html
Christian love,
Ronald
.

User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	09 Nov 2006 03:20:42 PM

"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message
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Nothing in any of this means that Jesus is Yahweh, the God of Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob, who sent Jesus.

LOL

1) Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are among the "fathers" who sent Jesus.

LOL

John calls Jesus both the root AND offspring of David.

Jesus both started the process and was a result of the process at the
same time.

Hence, He started them, and they started Him.

Jesus was the firstborn creature of God, not of Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob. -- Colossians 1:15.

As usual, the verse doesn't say what you say it says.
When was Jesus born?
In the middle of the story.

Jesus was counted, or reckoned, as the seed of David because of his
earthly parents, even though Jesus' actual father was God in heaven.

Right.
Jesus started in the middle.

As a result, Jesus' human soul, including his body and his blood, was not
tainted by the sin of Adam, as are the rest of mankind.

Which doesn't have anything to do with the fact that Jesus started in the
middle.

Jesus spoke of his body of flesh and true bread that came down from
heaven.

Which still doesn't change the fact that the story started in the middle.

How did Jesus' body come down from heaven?

Because He was formed in the middle of the story.

Does this mean that Jesus was a human with a body of flesh before coming
to into the world?

No. It means that Jesus was formed in the middle and went to the ends.
He WENT BACK and formed Adam.
He WENT BACK and dined with Abraham.
He WENT BACK and wrestled with Jacob.
He WENT TO THE END where He'll pick up the story again at the gathering from
the "cloud" (metaphor for the witnesses). And none of this changes the fact
that Jesus was "Jehovah" the whole time.

We know that Jesus' body was formed in the womb of Mary, but the
conception was from the God of Jesus by means of the holy spirit. (Matthew
1:20)

Which is still irrelevant: It happened in the middle.

However, the scripture also says that Jesus' body was prepared for him by
his God, (Hebrews 10:5) for the purpose of its being an offering for sin.
(Hebrews 10:10)

Which still doesn't change the fact that it happened in the middle of the
story.

Jesus spoke of his body, his flesh, in John 6:32 as "bread of life" that
was from the only true God, his Father, who sent Jesus.

You are one for redundancy and irrelevancy--it still happened in the middle,
then Jesus proceeded outwards from there, even to the beginning and the end.
[snip the rest of the irrelevant diatribe]
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
.

User: "ResLight"
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	15 Nov 2006 10:35:24 AM

"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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"ResLight" <rday888@reject.comcast.net> wrote in message
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Jesus was the firstborn creature of God, not of Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob. -- Colossians 1:15.

As usual, the verse doesn't say what you say it says.

Firstborn = the first one to be given life among the offspring being spoken
of.
creature = a created being.

When was Jesus born?

In the middle of the story.

Yes, Jesus, as a human being was born in the "middle", so to speak, of the
reign of sin. This does not mean that Jesus was not brought forth -- brought
into being -- before the world of mankind of made. -- Proverbs 8:24-30; John
1:1,2; 17:3.

Does this mean that Jesus was a human with a body of flesh before coming
to into the world?

No. It means that Jesus was formed in the middle and went to the ends.

He WENT BACK and formed Adam.

He WENT BACK and dined with Abraham.

He WENT BACK and wrestled with Jacob.

Where do I find such an idea in what God has revealed in the Bible?

He WENT TO THE END where He'll pick up the story again at the gathering
from the "cloud" (metaphor for the witnesses). And none of this changes
the fact that Jesus was "Jehovah" the whole time.

Which idea has to be imaginatively added to and read into the scriptures.

We know that Jesus' body was formed in the womb of Mary, but the
conception was from the God of Jesus by means of the holy spirit.
(Matthew 1:20)

Which is still irrelevant: It happened in the middle.

However, the scripture also says that Jesus' body was prepared for him by
his God, (Hebrews 10:5) for the purpose of its being an offering for sin.
(Hebrews 10:10)

Which still doesn't change the fact that it happened in the middle of the
story.

Jesus spoke of his body, his flesh, in John 6:32 as "bread of life" that
was from the only true God, his Father, who sent Jesus.

You are one for redundancy and irrelevancy--it still happened in the
middle, then Jesus proceeded outwards from there, even to the beginning
and the end.

The scriptures reveal that Jesus came from heaven from his God. He was
already in heaven with his God before coming to the earth.
Christian love,
Ronald
.

User: "Timothy Sutter"
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	15 Nov 2006 02:50:35 PM

"ResLight" wrote...

Jesus was the firstborn creature of God, not of Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob. -- Colossians 1:15.

"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." wrote

As usual, the verse doesn't say what you say it says.

ResLight wrote:

Firstborn = the first one to be given life among
the offspring being spoken of.
creature = a created being.

born is just as properly rendered 'brought forth,'
and if you look at collosians verse 18, it says
"firtborn from the dead" or, first to be brought forth
from the dead, so that this being will be preeminent
in all things.
so, it is clear that Jesus must be firstborn from
the dead and having been identified as such, must
also be preeminent in all things.
makes this being also, before all things, verse 17.
ResLight wrote:

When was Jesus born?

"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." wrote

In the middle of the story.

ResLight wrote:

proverbs 8 is a literary personification of God's own wisdom.
John 1 identifies the Word of God
who became flesh and dwelt among men.
what some of this boils down to is
that some people see some implication
that God's own Spirit and God's own Word
are to be considered as two different -beings-.
but look at this;
--
1 Peter 1:10-11
Of this salvation the prophets have inquired
and searched carefully, who prophesied of the
grace that would come to you, searching what,
or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ
who was in them was indicating when He testified
beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the
glories that would follow.
--
but just look at who or what
comes to, thru or by said "prophets"
--
Hosea 1:1
The word of YHWH that came
to Hosea the son of Beeri,
Joel 1:1
The word of YHWH that came
to Joel the son of Pethuel.
Amos 7:16
Now therefore, hear the word of YHWH:
Jonah 1:1
Now the word of YHWH came to
Jonahthe son of Amittai, saying,
Jonah 3:1
Now the word of YHWH came to
Jonah the second time, saying,
Micah 1:1
The word of YHWH that came to Micah...
Zephaniah 1:1
The word of YHWH which came
to Zephaniah the son of Cushi,
Haggai 1:1
....the word of YHWH came
by Haggai the prophet
Zechariah 7:8
Then the word of YHWH
came to Zechariah, saying,
Malachi 1:1
The oracle of the word of
YHWH to Israel by Malachi.
Isaiah 38:4
And the word of YHWH
came to Isaiah, saying,
Jeremiah 1:4
Then the word of YHWH
came to me, saying:
Ezekiel 1:3
the word of YHWH came
expressly to Ezekiel
the priest,
--
so, essentially, our dear friend Peter
affirms that "The Spirit of Christ"
is "the word of YHWH"
and John says that this "Word of God"
became flesh and dwellt among men.
this same "Word of God" who has
always been with and in God
and is God.
so, that's Jesus, "The Word of YHWH"
became flesh and dwellt among men.
so, there's no real reason to consider
God's own Spirit and God's own Word
as two different beings.
so, if one suggests that God spoke
and things came into being, there is no real need
to say that as God spoke, that a new being came
to be first, namely, The Word
like saying, God's own Spirit began
to bring forth things, seen and unseen,
and as this is being accomplished, that
a new 'creature' called "The Word"
is 'brought forth -first-.
it's unnecessary.
but, inasmuch as one may ascribe the creation of
things seen and unseen to this Word who became flesh
and dwellt among men and who maintains a preeminent
status as firstborn from the dead,
who could anyone claim as responsible for
forming man from the dust of the ground?
genesis 2 says that YHWH formed man
from the dust of the ground.
there is no secondary element shown in genesis 2.
so, either one says that "Jesus" stands and watches
as YHWH forms man from the dust of the ground,
in which case Jesus is not the preeminent
being of collossians 1 and John 1 by whom
things seen and unseen were created
or, the 'preincarnate Jesus' is YHWH.
etc.
"ResLight" wrote...

Jesus spoke of his body, his flesh, in John 6:32 as "bread of life" that
was from the only true God, his Father, who sent Jesus.

"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." wrote

You are one for redundancy and irrelevancy--it still happened in the
middle, then Jesus proceeded outwards from there, even to the beginning
and the end.

"ResLight" wrote...

The scriptures reveal that Jesus came from heaven from his God. He was
already in heaven with his God before coming to the earth.

---
Revelation 21:23
And the city has no need of the sun nor of
the moon, that they should shine for it; for
the glory of God has enlightened it, and
the lamp thereof [is] the Lamb.
---
remember who the Lamb is;
---
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him,
and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes
away the sin of the world!
John 1:36
And looking at Jesus as He walked,
he said, "Behold the Lamb of God!"
---
what you should see is that a "lamp"
-is- a spirit in what we may call
"bible parlance" that is, you should
see how a "lamp" is used as
synonymous with spirit.
God's Own Lamp is not a
vessel like Alladin's lamp.
a "lamp" is also the light that shines.
greek; "lampein" means "to shine"
Holy Spirit is, in fact, a lamp.
David says this;
---
Psalm 119:105
Your word is a lamp to my
feet And a light to my path.
---
but see, he's already said this;
---
Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.
---
the reason that David could say that
YHWH's Word was a lamp to his feet was
-because- the Holy Spirit was a
lamp to his mind.
because;
---
Isaiah 6:10
Make the heart of this people calloused; make
their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise
they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."
---
which implies that without God's light to
the mind, you can read the God's Word all
day long and get zero out of it.
like many people who make vain attempts
at attacking the bible show regularly.
and all the bits about the eye
being the lamp of the body etc.
the Holy Spirit is the Eye of God
it illuminates man.
look; remember we are speaking
in Spiritual terms, not material
---
Proverbs 20:26-28
A wise king sifts out the wicked, And
brings the threshing wheel over them.
the spirit of a man is the lamp of YHWH
Searching all the inner depths of his
heart. Mercy and truth preserve the king,
And by lovingkindness he upholds his throne.
---
the spirit of man is the lamp of YHWH.
therefore, a "spirit" is like a lamp.
now look here;
---
1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knows the things of a man except the
spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one
knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
---
alright, so you see that man has a spirit
in him and God, also, has a Spirit.
can say "is a Spirit" but that's
not the issue here.
so look, if man's spirit, is YHWH's lamp,
then God's Spirit is God's OWN Lamp.
and one that burns perpetually and never
need fueling or refilling or whathaveyou.
look at these from Exodus, which are
likenesses of the Eternal Realities.
---
Exodus 27:20
"And you shall command the children of Israel
that they bring you pure oil of pressed olives
for the light, to cause the lamp to burn continually.
Leviticus 24:2
"Command the children of Israel that they bring
to you pure oil of pressed olives for the light,
to make the lamps burn continually.
Leviticus 24:4
He shall be in charge of the lamps on the
pure gold lampstand before YHWH continually.
---
---
Hebrews 9:24
For Christ has not entered the holy places
made with hands, which are copies of the true,
but into heaven itself, now to appear in the
presence of God for us;
---
see, these Lamps are to burn continually.
yes, they are physical copies and shadows of
the eternal realities, but the point of issue
is that they are -supposed- to be ever burning
and as such, God's Spirit never ceases,
but is everlasting.
i throw this in just for good measure;
---
2 Samuel 22:28-30
You will save the humble people;
But Your eyes are on the haughty,
that You may bring them down.
"For You are my lamp, YHWH;
YHWH shall enlighten my darkness.
For by You I can run against a troop;
By my God I can leap over a wall.
---
look, YHWH is a lamp also.
just like Lamb is a lamp.
Lamp is a figurative term
used to describe a facet of God.
please, this is considering a Spiritual thing,
in terms that only shadow the reality. we are
not considering Lamb as if Lamb was a lamp
which must be continually filled with oil
and whose wick must be trimmed etc.
this is not the case.
this "lamp" is an integral part of God.
in fact, it's as if this Lamp -is- God,
and that is exactly how you should
be seeing this.
YHWH is sending YHWH into a human flesh.
that which resides in the flesh is YHWH.
the True Light.
but now, we see that Lamb is alive
forevermore and everlasting, as before.
and as above, just as the spirit in man
is YHWH's lamp, so is Christ's Spirit,
the Holy Spirit, God's OWN Lamp.
only this Lamp is perpetually lit.
and God's Glory Shines forth from God.
God is both Light and Lamp.
---
Matthew 6:22
"The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore
your eye is good, your whole body will be full
of light.
Luke 11:34
The lamp of the body is the eye. Therefore,
when your eye is good, your whole body also
is full of light. But when your eye is bad,
your body also is full of darkness.
Revelation 5:6
And between the throne and the four living creatures
and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing, as though
it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes,
which are the seven spirits of God sent
out into all the earth;
---
see, The Lamb has seven eyes like seven
lamps only some agree that seven is ONE Week,
and these seven eyes are the seven sprits of God,
which most will agree there is but One Spirit of God.
so, this agrees quite readily
with what was shown above.
that this "Lamp" is God's Own Spirit,
and not a thing which is -not- God.
can you see this?
and God's Lamp never goes out nor is it
in need of refueling, nor is it an
abstractable thing which is -not- God.
this "Lamp" is God's OWN Spirit.
and the Lamb has -Eyes-
which are God's Spirit.
and therefore, as it were,
the Lamb is Lamp, but not
-only- Lamp.
God -is- a Holy Spirit.
and this Light burns perpetually.
and Jesus is The Lamb and
The Lamb is The Lamp and the
Lamp is The Spirit of God.
Jesus Christ, not only
is YHWH incarnate but
is the Spirit of God.
---
Ephesians 2:22
in whom you also are built into it for
a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Ephesians 3:17
and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through
faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
2 Timothy 1:14
guard the truth that has been entrusted to you
by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.
---
and Jesus is The Lamb and
The Lamb is The Lamp and the
Lamp is The Spirit of God.
Jesus Christ, not only
is YHWH incarnate but
is the Spirit of God.
.

User: "ResLight"
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	20 Nov 2006 07:58:24 PM

"Timothy Sutter" <a202010@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:455B7D9B.45E@lycos.com...

"ResLight" wrote...

and John says that this "Word of God"
became flesh and dwellt among men.

Jesus did indeed become flesh. In coming into the world of mankind, Jesus'
God and Father prepared a body for Jesus, a body that had in it life (John
1:14), just as Adam had before Adam sinned. (Romans 5:14-19) He left the
glory of his being as THEOS with his God to become human. -- John 1:1,2;
17:5.

this same "Word of God" who has
always been with and in God
and is God.

If this is meant to say that Jesus before coming to the earth had always
been with his God and in his God in all eternity past, or outside of time,
such a thought has to be added to and read into the scriptures. I have no
reason to do this.

so, that's Jesus, "The Word of YHWH"
became flesh and dwellt among men.

so, there's no real reason to consider
God's own Spirit and God's own Word
as two different beings.

I don't. Yahweh's holy spirit is indeed a part of God, even as a person's
finger is considered a part that person. I do not consider my finger as a
person of me, nor does God consider his finger -- his holy spirit -- as a
person of himself. -- Matthew 12:28; Luke 11:20.

so, if one suggests that God spoke
and things came into being, there is no real need
to say that as God spoke, that a new being came
to be first, namely, The Word

More correctly, Yahweh commanded, and this and that came into being. Who was
Yahweh commanding? The NT tells us:
John 1:3 - All things [panta, the word "things" is supplied by translators]
were made through him [the prehuman LOGOS]. Without him was not anything
made that has been made.
Thus John testifies that God did not make any of the world of mankind
without the LOGOS, who was with God in the beginning spoken of. -- John
1:1,2.
John records that Jesus was sent by, speaking for, and doing the works of
the God of Israel, not that he was God Almighty in the flesh. (John 3:16,17;
4:34; 5:23,24,30,36-38; 6:29,38,39,40,44,57; 7:16,18,28,29,33;
8:16,18,26,29,42; 9:4; 10:25,32,36,37; 11:42; 12:44,45,49,50; 13:20;
14:10,24; 15:21; 16:5; 17:3,18,21,23,25; 20:2) Before coming to the earth,
he was God's "master workman." (Proverbs 8:30) Through him the world was
created. (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16) It was in this manner that Jesus was
"Word" or "Logos" of God. Likewise, the entire testimony of the scriptures
indicate that Jesus was the image of God, spoke for Yahweh, made him known,
and took action in the name of Yahweh. (Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Matthew 11:27;
23:39; Mark 11:9,10; Luke 10:22; 13:35; John 1:14,18; 3:2,17; 5:19,43; 6:57;
7:16,28; 8:26,28,38; 10:25; 12:49,50; 14:10; 15:15; 17:8,26; 2 Corinthians
4:6; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:1-3; 2:3; 1 John 5:20; Revelation 1:1) Thus
we conclude that Jesus, being the Logos of Yahweh, serves as his mouthpiece,
expressor, to speak for Yahweh, and to act on behalf of Yahweh, as in the
creation. Thus I have no doubt that Yahweh did use the Logos in the
creation of the "all things" that are spoken of in Genesis 1 and 2, as
confirmed in John 1:1-4.
http://creation.reslight.net/tb.html
I do not, however, believe that Jesus, before coming to the earth was simply
the "utterance" of God. If this was the "where" that Jesus was before coming
to the earth, then this is the "where" that Jesus is now. I have already
shown, however, that this is not so.

like saying, God's own Spirit began
to bring forth things, seen and unseen,
and as this is being accomplished, that
a new 'creature' called "The Word"
is 'brought forth -first-.

it's unnecessary.

but, inasmuch as one may ascribe the creation of
things seen and unseen to this Word who became flesh
and dwellt among men and who maintains a preeminent
status as firstborn from the dead,

who could anyone claim as responsible for
forming man from the dust of the ground?

genesis 2 says that YHWH formed man
from the dust of the ground.

there is no secondary element shown in genesis 2.

There are two accounts of the creation of man. In Genesis 1:26, God is
recorded as speaking to someone when he says: "Let us make man in our
image." Regardless, both John and Paul show that the creation was made
through the Logos/Jesus, Jesus being the firstborn creature. It evidently
was not yet due time for such to be revealed in the Old Testament times.
And, if the Textus Receptus is correct in Ephesians 3:9, then Paul
testifies that it was "God, who created all things through Jesus Christ."
(Ephesians 3:9) While the original creation of man, or the world of mankind,
may not be what is being referred to in Ephesians 3:9, it still does present
the concept of the Creator, and the agent that the Creator used.
I believe I have pointed out before that Jesus attributes the creation of
man and the world of mankind to his God and Father, the God of Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob. (Mark 10:6; 13:19) Jesus never claimed to be the God of
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but did claim to have been sent by that one true
God, whom he had seen and been with before he came into the world of
mankind. -- John 3:11,12; 6:46; 17:1,3; see also: Matthew 18:10.

so, either one says that "Jesus" stands and watches
as YHWH forms man from the dust of the ground,

in which case Jesus is not the preeminent
being of collossians 1 and John 1 by whom
things seen and unseen were created
or, the 'preincarnate Jesus' is YHWH.

Neither assumption is correct; the either/or senario is itself incorrect.
Jesus is the preeminent creature, as the firstborn creature. He does not
have to be uncreated, or the Creator, in order to have that role. He does
not have to be the Supreme Being to have that role. We should remember that
it is Yahweh -- the only true God (Supreme Power, the source of all power,
John 17:1,3)-- that has made Jesus preeminent over all these things (Isaiah
61:1-4; Matthew 28:18; John 3:34,35; 5:22,23; Ephesians 1:20-22; Philippians
2:9,10), with the recognition that this preeminence also excludes Yahweh who
is over Jesus. -- John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 3:23; 11:3; 15:27.
Christian love,
Ronald
.

User: "Timothy Sutter"
Title: Re: Jesus as God, pt 13	21 Nov 2006 07:57:51 AM

Timothy Sutter wrote...

this same "Word of God" who has
always been with and in God
and is God.

ResLight wrote:

this says exactly what it says, and that is that
God's own word is just as integral a part of
God's own being as God's own spirit.
i mention more on this in just a bit.

Timothy Sutter wrote...

so, that's Jesus, "The Word of YHWH"
became flesh and dwellt among men.
so, there's no real reason to consider
God's own Spirit and God's own Word
as two different beings.

ResLight wrote:

so, you consider that Jesus' casts out demons by God's Spirit
and this he calls God's finger and so, now you call God's
spirit, God's finger, and accept that this finger
is a part of God's own being,
but you cannot seem to consider God's own word
to be an integral component of God but instead
suggest that God speaks -through- a secondary being
whom God -created- to say things for God as a 'mouthpiece'
God's 'finger' is an integral component of God,
but God's 'mouthpiece' or is not.
evidently, God speaks in a form of
sign language inasmuch as Jesus says;
"my words are spirit"
==
John 6:63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing.
The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
==
and here;
==
Exodus 31:18
And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai,
He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone,
written with the finger of God.
==
==
Deuteronomy 9:10
Then YHWH delivered to me two tablets of stone written
with the finger of God, and on them were all the words
which YHWH had spoken to you on the mountain from the
midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.
==
so here, you'd have YHWH using a finger
or, as you would say, God's own Spirit,
to write words down on stone tablets.
trouble is, these words God scribes on stone
tablets by God's finger is not the image of
some secondary 'first creation' but is some
part of an image in and of God's own mind.
==
Matthew 12:34
Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil,
speak good things? For out of the abundance
of the heart the mouth speaks.
Luke 6:45
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart
brings forth good; [...] For out of the abundance
of the heart his mouth speaks.
==
see, what one speaks emanates from one's own heart.
this is not some secondary 'first creation' in similitude.
==
John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time.
The only begotten Son, who is in
the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
John 13:23
Now there was leaning on Jesus� bosom
one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved.
==
see, at the very least, this "Word" -resides-
in God's own 'bosom' and the 'bosom, is an integral
part of God's own being as we see that one of Jesus'
own disciples lays his head on Jesus' 'bosom'
and that this 'bosom' is exactly where the
heart resides and this heart is where the
words of speakers emanates.
at the very least, this "Word"
resides -in- God's own heart
but we need not chop God up into
fragments in the manner you'd like.
just as you or anyone else may 'send word' to another,
so God can "send word' wheresoever God may please
and still, this 'sent word' need never be construed
to not have emanated from within the bosom or heart
of God and, therefore, reflect the exacting image
of the eternal Deity, and -be- God.
and so, it is simply quite unnecessary to comment
as how God -creates- the emanation of God's own heart
whether or not, these emanaations leave -impressions-
both in the spirit and in the natural.
meaning, God can inscibe God's own word both on
stone tablets and the heart and mind of man, and yet,
neither of these actions, are sugestive of God, first,
creating God's own word so as to inscibe upon tablets
of stone nor the hearts and minds of man.
-we- -are- 'epistles of God'
==
2 Corinthians 3:3
clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us,
written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God,
not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh,
that is, of the heart.
==
see, Paul calls us 'letters of Christ
written by God's [finger] on our hearts.
there is no 'first creation' doing
what God's own finger does.
not that God's own spirit is just 'finger'
but we can use similitues as assists.

Timothy Sutter wrote...

and John says that this "Word of God"
became flesh and dwellt among men.

ResLight wrote:

if you are trying to suggest that Adam in the garden
is identical to Jesus i'll say that you have your
work cut out for you.
Adam is dust.
"dust you are and to dust you shall return"
Jesus was in glory... etc.

Timothy Sutter wrote...

so, if one suggests that God spoke
and things came into being, there is no real need
to say that as God spoke, that a new being came
to be first, namely, The Word

ResLight wrote:

More correctly, Yahweh commanded, and this and that
came into being.

just 'uttered' is plain enough
because as you should be able to see here;
=
Genesis 2:16
And YHWH God commanded[tsavah]
the man, saying, "Of every tree..."
=
YHWH is recorded as having used an entirely
different word to 'command' Adam not to eat,
but, uses 'amar' "to make the universe happen.
and here are some instances of 'amar' in use.
see, here YHWH is 'uttering' a question
to Adam and a question is not a command at all;
==
Genesis 3:9
Then the YHWH God called to Adam
and said[amar] to him, "Where are you?"
==
here's the serpent uttering[amar] to the woman;
=
Genesis 3:4
4 Then the serpent said[amar] to
the woman, You will not surely die.
=
here's a question and response
with [amar] and no commanding.
=
Genesis 3:13
13 And YHWH God said[amar] to the woman,
"What is this you have done?"
The woman said[amar], "The serpent deceived me"
=
ResLight wrote:

Who was Yahweh commanding? The NT tells us:

God isn't commanding anything,
God says 'be light' and 'light be'
evidently, you have God commanding some unseen
first creation, "make Light" and that unseen
first creation then makes light happen.
you have God 'commanding' the very nature
of God's own 'heart' to fod as God has
proposed in God's own 'heart'.
such is conceptually fragmentary and unnecessary.
ResLight wrote:

John 1:3 - All things [panta, the word "things" is supplied by translators]
were made through him [the prehuman LOGOS]. Without him was not anything
made that has been made.
Thus John testifies that God did not make any of the world of mankind
without the LOGOS, who was with God in the beginning spoken of. -- John
1:1,2.

this does not say "world of mankind"
this says that not anything that was made
was made aside from this thing who became
flesh and dwellt among men.
and if you are going to says this;
ResLight wrote:
# More correctly, Yahweh commanded,
# and this and that came into being.
then you are also saying that created things
are things that YHWH brought into being by
-saying- 'be this' and that this
encompasses all things.
ResLight wrote:

John records that Jesus was sent by, speaking for, and doing the works of
the God of Israel, not that he was God Almighty in the flesh. (John 3:16,17;
4:34; 5:23,24,30,36-38; 6:29,38,39,40,44,57; 7:16,18,28,29,33;
8:16,18,26,29,42; 9:4; 10:25,32,36,37; 11:42; 12:44,45,49,50; 13:20;
14:10,24; 15:21; 16:5; 17:3,18,21,23,25; 20:2)

did you comprehend this bits above about God's
own word coming from God's own heart and written
by the finger of God who you can see as an
integral part of God's own being?
ResLight wrote:

Before coming to the earth,
he was God's "master workman." (Proverbs 8:30) Through him the world was
created. (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16) It was in this manner that Jesus was
"Word" or "Logos" of God.

here; YHWH looks somewhat like a master workman;
==
Job 38:
Then YHWH answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:
"Who is this who darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
Now prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me.
" Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding."
==
YHWH seems to suggest that YHWH laid foundations
and set measurements and commanded the waves etc.
etc. etc. etc. for three long chapters.
the whole bit looks like YHWH does the work.
ResLight wrote:

Likewise, the entire testimony of the scriptures
indicate that Jesus was the image of God, spoke for Yahweh, made him known,
and took action in the name of Yahweh. (Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Matthew 11:27;
23:39; Mark 11:9,10; Luke 10:22; 13:35; John 1:14,18; 3:2,17; 5:19,43; 6:57;
7:16,28; 8:26,28,38; 10:25; 12:49,50; 14:10; 15:15; 17:8,26; 2 Corinthians
4:6; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:1-3; 2:3; 1 John 5:20; Revelation 1:1)

so, Jesus isn't just an image of a finger
or a look at the backside which Moses glimpsed
inasmuch as a full exposure may have killed Moses.
Jesus is the Shikaneh Glory made manifest to mankind.
first in quiet tones in the flesh where one may see
The Father by peering at Jesus, as Jesus answers
Philip in John's gospel, and then as a blistering
emanation of Light which knocks Saul from his feet
so as to seem like a dead man, only to resurrect
Paul in newness of life in whom now, Christ lives.
==
Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer
I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life
which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in
the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
==
Reslight says:

Thus
we conclude that Jesus, being the Logos of Yahweh, serves as his mouthpiece,
expressor, to speak for Yahweh, and to act on behalf of Yahweh, as in the
creation. Thus I have no doubt that Yahweh did use the Logos in the
creation of the "all things" that are spoken of in Genesis 1 and 2, as
confirmed in John 1:1-4.

do you have someone sitting at your
typewriter taking dictation for you?
i do not, i