Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?

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Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"Caiaphas"
Date:	26 Nov 2003 07:55:11 AM
Object:	Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?

Jesus in his day broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- is
He today trying to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab
Culture?
.

User: "Mark Fox"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	27 Nov 2003 11:32:57 AM

"Caiaphas" <Nyquist314159@yahoo.com> wrote

Jesus in his day broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- is
He today trying to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab
Culture?

You can see Jesus working in the world when Islam and the Arab
societies are not blamed for terrorism. Its only a small group of
people who choose to murder and destroy and its those people who are
opposed. All others are embraced.
I am especially proud of the way that President Bush, a devout
Christian, speaks respectfully of the Islamic faith and the Muslim
people. He is professing the true principles of Christianity,
principles of inclusion and caring and not exclusion and hate.
.

User: "Achan Back"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	10 Dec 2003 04:37:44 AM

(Mark Fox) wrote in message news:<a258afb5.0311270932.5dff2db1@posting.google.com>...

"Caiaphas" <Nyquist314159@yahoo.com> wrote

Jesus in his day broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- is
He today trying to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab
Culture?

You can see Jesus working in the world when Islam and the Arab
societies are not blamed for terrorism. Its only a small group of
people who choose to murder and destroy and its those people who are
opposed. All others are embraced.

I am especially proud of the way that President Bush, a devout
Christian, speaks respectfully of the Islamic faith and the Muslim
people. He is professing the true principles of Christianity,
principles of inclusion and caring and not exclusion and hate.

Bush got 90% of the Arab American vote in 2000.
AG
.

User: "HP Opus"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	28 Nov 2003 10:09:48 PM

(Mark Fox) wrote in message news:<a258afb5.0311270932.5dff2db1@posting.google.com>...

I am especially proud of the way that President Bush, a
devout Christian, speaks respectfully of the Islamic
faith and the Muslim people. He is professing the true
principles of Christianity, principles of inclusion and
caring and not exclusion and hate.

GEORGE W. BUSH: [You] no-good fucking sonovabitch. (1)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: We're gonna take this thing [the evangelicals] over...
(2)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: ***** [is what my father and I talk about]. (3)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: Go to hell... (4)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: There's Adam Clymer -- major league ***** -- from
the New York Times... (5)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: People communicate with God and reach God in different
ways. ...And I am mindful of what Billy Graham one time told me, for
me not to try to figure out...who gets to go to heaven. ...And when I
told you I'm a sinner -- you need to take that in the figurative
sense. (6)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: I joined Skull and Bones, a secret society, so secret
I can't say anything more. (7)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: ...four Gentile governors - one Methodist, two
Catholics, and a Mormon, and several Jewish-American friends...prayed
together, on bended knee...around an altar kneeling, one common Lord.
Faith changes lives. I know, because faith has changed mine. (8)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: ["Did I have any qualms, say, about joining an elite
secret club like Skull and Bones at Yale University?"] No qualms at
all. I was honored. ...["How do I demystify it a bit for those who
might think it's a cross between a Masonic Lodge and the Trilateral
Commission?"] Without revealing all the great secrets? ...Someone a
year ahead of me tapped me. There was an entry celebration. I can't
remember whether my dad showed up or not. (9)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: Throughout the world, people of all religions
recognize Jesus Christ as an example of love, compassion, sacrifice
and service. Reaching out to the poor, the suffering and the
marginalized, he provided moral leadership that continues to inspire
countless men, women and children today. (10)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: All Presidents of the United States have come to the
National Prayer Breakfast, regardless of their religious views. No
matter what our background, in prayer we share something universal --
a desire to speak and listen to our Maker, and to know His plan for
our lives. ...Men and women can be good without faith, but faith is a
force of goodness. Men and women can be compassionate without faith,
but faith often inspires compassion. Human beings can love without
faith, but faith is a great teacher of love. ...Faith is also
important to the civility of our country. It teaches us not merely to
tolerate one another, but to respect one another -- to show a regard
for different views and the courtesy to listen. This is essential to
democracy. It is also the proper way to treat human beings created
in the divine image. We'll have our disagreements. Civility does not
require us to abandon deeply-held beliefs. Civility does not demand
casual creeds and colorless convictions. Americans have always
believed that civility and firm resolve could live easily with one
another. But civility does mean that our public debate ought to be
free from bitterness and anger, rancor and ill-will. We have an
obligation to make our case, not to demonize our opponents. As the
Book of James reminds us, fresh water and salt water cannot flow from
the same spring. (11)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take
a while... [But] we will rid the world of the evil-doers. (12)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: I have told the nation more than once that...the
teachings of Islam are the teachings of peace and good. ...And I also
appreciate the prayers to the universal God. (13)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: I appreciate your [the Russians'] understanding there
is a universal and gracious God. (14)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: ...universal God...is important -- obviously,
important part of my life, but very important part of the life of our
country. (15)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: As more and more people go to their churches and
synagogues and mosques and hear that universal call to love a
neighbor, America's culture is changing. ...Out of the evil done to
this great land is going to come incredible good... (16)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: Islam is...a faith based upon love, not hate.
....Americans of all faiths will come together in a spirit of unity...
Everybody ought to worship the Almighty, however they choose. (17)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: I am pleased to join you today in the celebration of
Eid, the culmination of the Holy Month of Ramadan. ...Islam traces
its origins back to God's call on Abraham. And Ramadan commemorates
the revelation of God's word in the Holy Koran to the prophet
Mohammad... The spirit behind this holiday is a reminder that...Islam
affirms God's justice... Eid Mubarak. God bless. (18)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not return safely
to Earth; yet we can pray that all are safely home. (19)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: F___ Saddam. We're taking him out. (20)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: America welcomes individuals of all backgrounds and
religions, and our citizens hold diverse beliefs. In prayer, we share
the universal desire to speak and listen to our Maker and to seek the
plans He has for our lives. ...In this hour of history's calling,
Americans are bowing humbly in churches, synagogues, temples, mosques,
and in their own homes, in the presence of the Almighty. ...Now,
therefore, I, George W. Bush, President of the United States of
America, do hereby proclaim May 1, 2003, as a National Day of Prayer.
I ask the citizens of our Nation to pray, each after his or her own
faith, in thanksgiving for the freedoms and blessings we have received
and for God's continued guidance and protection. (21)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: We are mindful as well that some good men and women
are not making the journey home. ...Every name, every life is a loss
to our military, to our nation and to the loved ones who grieve.
There is no homecoming for these families. Yet we pray in God's time
their reunion will come. (22)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them,
and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did,
and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If
you [Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas] help me I will act, and
if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them. (23)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: Islam's a peaceful re igion. The basic tenets of
Islam is peace and respect and tolerance. (24)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: Ramadan...provides Muslims a time to...practice God's
commands. ...Islam is a peaceful religion... (25)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: Ramadan...this holy time..is...a good time for people
of all faiths to reflect on...[our] gratitude to God... I
particularly want to thank Imam Faizul Khan, who will lead us in
prayer. ...Islam is a religion that brings hope and comfort to good
people across America and around the world. Tonight we honor...the
tradition of Islam by hosting this Iftaar at the White House. (26)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
GEORGE W. BUSH: [To the remark, "Some people who share your beliefs
don't believe that Muslims worship the same Almighty."] I do say
that...I believe we worship the same God. (27)
MARK FOX: President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing the true
principles of Christianity
S O U R C E S
(1) George W. Bush in April 1986, addressing Al Hunt of the Wall
Street Journal, quoted in Jake Tapper, "God Is Their CoPilot: Both
Born-Again, Bush and Gore Have Made This the Most God-Fearing
Presidential Race in 100 Years. But Their Faiths Have Led these Men in
Two Completely Different Directions," SALON, 07 July 2000,
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/07/07/born_again/.
(2) George W. Bush in March 1987 quoted by Doug Wead, cited in Hanna
Rosin, "Applying Personal Faith to Public Policy: 'Changed Man'
Advocates Church-Based Programs," WASHINGTON POST, 24 July 2000,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A31740-2000Jul23&notFound=true.
"[George W. Bush's] father, then running for president, was under
attack by what inside the campaign they called 'the aliens' --
evangelical Republicans flocking to the candidacy of Pat Robertson.
Bush arrived in Washington in March 1987 and was put in charge of
'coalitions,' the campaign code word for evangelicals. 'He came in
and said, "We're gonna take this thing over,"' recalls Doug Wead, a
campaign aide with ties to the evangelicals and Bush's partner in the
venture."
(3) George W. Bush in response to a Hartford [Connecticut] Courant
reporter who asked what Bush and his father talked about when they
weren't discussing politics at the 1988 Republican convention, quoted
in Jake Tapper, op. cit.
(4) Texas Governor George W. Bush in 1998, right before leaving for a
trip to Israel, in response to an Austin American-Statesman reporter
who asked Bush what he would say to the Israelis upon arrival, quoted
in Jake Tapper, op. cit.
(5) Texas Governor George W. Bush, quoted in Jake Tapper, "A 'Major
League *****': In an Embarrassing Gaffe, George W. Bush Insults a
New York Times Reporter," SALON, 04 September 2000,
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/09/04/cuss_word/.
(6) Texas Governor George W. Bush, "George W. Bush: Running on His
Faith," US NEWS ONLINE, 1999,
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/33/story_3345_1.html.
(7) Texas Governor George W. Bush, A CHARGE TO KEEP, ed. Mickey
Herskowitz, Morrow,William & Co., November 1999.
(8) Ibid.
(9) Texas Governor George W. Bush interviewed in Walter Isaacson, "My
Heritage Is Part of Who I Am," TIME, 30 July 2000,
http://www.time.com/time/campaign2000/story/textframe_bushinterview1.html
and http://www.time.com/time/campaign2000/story/textframe_bushinterview2.html.
(10) Texas Governor George W. Bush, quoted in Laurie Goodstein,
"Bush's 'Jesus Day' Is Called a First Amendment Violation," NEW YORK
TIMES, 06 August 2000, http://www.beth-am.org/index2.cfm?page=362.
(11) US President George W. Bush, "Remarks by the President at
National Prayer Breakfast, Washington Hilton Hotel, Washington. D.C.,"
Office of the Press Secretary, 01 February 2001,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/02/20010201.html.
(12) US President George W. Bush quoted in John F. Harris, "Bush Gets
More International Support For U.S. Campaign Against Terrorism:
Officials Warn New Attacks Are Possible," WASHINGTON POST, 17
September 2001, page A01,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41157/2001Sep16.html.
(13) US President George W. Bush, "Text: Bush Welcomes Muslim
Americans to White House," 26 September 2001,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/specials/attacked/transcripts/bushtext2_092601.html.
(14) US President George W. Bush, "Remarks by the President to
Community and Religious Leaders, Spaso House, Moscow, Russia," Office
of the Press Secretary, 24 May 2002,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/05/20020524-12.html.
(15) US President George W. Bush, "President Bush, President Putin
Discuss Joint Efforts against Terrorism: Remarks by President Bush and
Russian President Putin in Photo Opportunity - Calgary, Kananaskis,
Canada," Office of the Press Secretary, 27 June 2002,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020627-3.html.
(16) US President George W. Bush, "President Talks Homeland/Economic
Security at Mt. Rushmore: Remarks by the President on Homeland
Security and the Budget," Mount Rushmore, South Dakota, Office of the
Press Secretary, 15 August 2002,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/08/20020815.html.
(17) US President George W. Bush, "President Bush Holds Roundtable
with Arab- and Muslim-American Leaders, Embassy at Afghanistan,
Washington, D.C.," Office of the Press Secretary, 10 September 2002,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020910-7.html.
(18) US President George W. Bush, "President Commemorates Eid al-Fitr:
Remarks by the President on Eid Al-Fitr, The Islamic Center of
Washington, D.C., Washington, D.C.," Office of the Press Secretary, 05
December 2002, http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021205-5.html.
(19) US President George W. Bush, "President Addresses Nation on Space
Shuttle Columbia Tragedy: Remarks by the President on the Loss of
Space Shuttle Columbia, The Cabinet Room, 01 February 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/02/20030201-2.html.
(20) US President George W. Bush at the White House in March 2002,
quoted in Michael Elliott and James Carney, "First Stop, Iraq: How Did
the U.S. End up Taking on Saddam? The Inside Story of How Iraq Jumped
to the Top of Bush's Agenda -- and Why the Outcome There May
Foreshadow a Different World Order," TIME, 23 March 2003,
http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101030331/wroad.html.
(21) US President George W. Bush, "National Day of Prayer, 2003, by
the President of the United States of America: A Proclamation," Office
of the Press Secretary, 30 April 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/04/20030430-22.html.
(22) US President George W. Bush, "Full Text: Bush Speech Aboard the
USS Abraham Lincoln," 01 May 2003,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2627-2003May1.html.
(23) US President George W. Bush, quoted by Palestinian Prime Minister
Mahmoud Abbas, in Arnon Regular, "'Road Map Is a Life Saver for Us,'
PM Abbas Tells Hamas," HAARETZ, 25 June 2003,
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=310788&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y.
Also cf. Chris Floyd, "Errand Boy," MOSCOW TIMES, 27 June 2003,
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/06/27/120.html.
(24) US President George W. Bush, "Roundtable Interview of the
President by the Press Pool, Aboard Air Force One, En Route Canberra,
Australia," Office of the Press Secretary, 22 October 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031022-7.html.
(25) US President George W. Bush, "President's Ramadan Message,"
Office of the Press Secretary, 24 October 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031024-10.html.
(26) US President George W. Bush, "Remarks by the President at Iftaar
with Ambassadors and Muslim Leaders, State Floor," Office of the Press
Secretary, 28 October 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031028-9.html.
(27) US President George W. Bush, "President Bush, Prime Minister Hold
Joint Press Conference, Foreign and Commonwealth Offices, London,
England," Office of the Press Secretary, 20 November 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/11/20031120-3.html; also
"Text of Bush, Blair Remarks: A Text of President Bush's and British
Prime Minister Tony Blair's Remarks Thursday at the Foreign and
Commonwealth Offices in London, As provided by the White House,"
ASSOCIATED PRESS, 20 November 2003,
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-bush-blair-text,0,5763089.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines.
One with you (if) in Christ,
HP Opus
http://fellow-servants-of-christ.0catch.com
.

User: "HP Opus"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	28 Nov 2003 10:11:51 PM

(Mark Fox) wrote in message news:<a258afb5.0311270932.5dff2db1@posting.google.com>...

User: "Mark Fox"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	29 Nov 2003 09:27:39 AM

(HP Opus) wrote

Another interesting quote from one of your sources:
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/07/07/born_again/index4.html
Olasky first met Bush in 1993 after his book, "The Tragedy of American
Compassion," .... -- [Bush] will say, 'We are sinners.' And that
makes a huge difference," Olasky says. "He comes off as inclusively
saying the same things to others that he says to himself. 'We're
sinners. Whatever good things I occasionally do come from God's
grace.' This is more than rhetoric. This is understanding."
.

User: "HP Opus"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	29 Nov 2003 05:44:04 PM

(Mark Fox) wrote in message news:<a258afb5.0311290727.25ed3b28@posting.google.com>...

hp_opus@hotmail.com (HP Opus) wrote

Another interesting quote from one of your sources:

http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/07/07/born_again/index4.html

Olasky first met Bush in 1993 after his book, "The Tragedy of American
Compassion," .... -- [Bush] will say, 'We are sinners.' And that
makes a huge difference," Olasky says. "He comes off as inclusively
saying the same things to others that he says to himself. 'We're
sinners. Whatever good things I occasionally do come from God's
grace.' This is more than rhetoric. This is understanding."

Oh, now we see what you mean, Mark Fox. To you, "President Bush [is]
a devout Christian...professing the true principles of Christianity"
because of the above quote? So put together -- what you quoted above
plus all that I've quoted -- your line of defense now goes like this:
Mark Fox says, "President Bush [is] a devout Christian...professing
the true principles of Christianity", because "[Bush] will say,
....'We're sinners. Whatever good things I occasionally do come from
God's grace.'" So never mind what Bush had said elsewhere, Mark Fox
added, you know, like:
"[You] no-good fucking sonovabitch. ...We're gonna take this thing
[the evangelicals] over... ***** [is what my father and I talk
about]. ...Go to hell... There's Adam Clymer -- major league *****
-- from the New York Times... People communicate with God and reach
God in different ways. ...And I am mindful of what Billy Graham one
time told me, for me not to try to figure out...who gets to go to
heaven. ...And when I told you I'm a sinner -- you need to take that
in the figurative sense. ...I joined Skull and Bones, a secret
society, so secret I can't say anything more. ...four Gentile
governors - one Methodist, two Catholics, and a Mormon, and several
Jewish-American friends...prayed together, on bended knee...around an
altar kneeling, one common Lord. Faith changes lives. I know,
because faith has changed mine. ...["Did I have any qualms, say,
about joining an elite secret club like Skull and Bones at Yale
University?"] No qualms at all. I was honored. ...["How do I
demystify it a bit for those who might think it's a cross between a
Masonic Lodge and the Trilateral Commission?"] Without revealing all
the great secrets? ...Someone a year ahead of me tapped me. There
was an entry celebration. I can't remember whether my dad showed up
or not. ...Throughout the world, people of all religions recognize
Jesus Christ as an example of love, compassion, sacrifice and service.
Reaching out to the poor, the suffering and the marginalized, he
provided moral leadership that continues to inspire countless men,
women and children today. ...All Presidents of the United States have
come to the National Prayer Breakfast, regardless of their religious
views. No matter what our background, in prayer we share something
universal -- a desire to speak and listen to our Maker, and to know
His plan for our lives. ...Men and women can be good without faith,
but faith is a force of goodness. Men and women can be compassionate
without faith, but faith often inspires compassion. Human beings can
love without faith, but faith is a great teacher of love. ...Faith is
also important to the civility of our country. It teaches us not
merely to tolerate one another, but to respect one another -- to show
a regard for different views and the courtesy to listen. This is
essential to democracy. It is also the proper way to treat human
beings created in the divine image. We'll have our disagreements.
Civility does not require us to abandon deeply-held beliefs. Civility
does not demand casual creeds and colorless convictions. Americans
have always believed that civility and firm resolve could live easily
with one another. But civility does mean that our public debate ought
to be free from bitterness and anger, rancor and ill-will. We have an
obligation to make our case, not to demonize our opponents. As the
Book of James reminds us, fresh water and salt water cannot flow from
the same spring. ...This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to
take a while... [But] we will rid the world of the evil-doers. ...I
have told the nation more than once that...the teachings of Islam are
the teachings of peace and good. ...And I also appreciate the prayers
to the universal God. ...I appreciate your [the Russians']
understanding there is a universal and gracious God. ...universal
God...is important -- obviously, important part of my life, but very
important part of the life of our country. ...As more and more people
go to their churches and synagogues and mosques and hear that
universal call to love a neighbor, America's culture is changing.
....Out of the evil done to this great land is going to come incredible
good... Islam is...a faith based upon love, not hate. ...Americans
of all faiths will come together in a spirit of unity... Everybody
ought to worship the Almighty, however they choose. ...I am pleased
to join you today in the celebration of Eid, the culmination of the
Holy Month of Ramadan. ...Islam traces its origins back to God's call
on Abraham. And Ramadan commemorates the revelation of God's word in
the Holy Koran to the prophet Mohammad... The spirit behind this
holiday is a reminder that...Islam affirms God's justice... Eid
Mubarak. God bless. ...The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not
return safely to Earth; yet we can pray that all are safely home.
....F___ Saddam. We're taking him out. ...America welcomes
individuals of all backgrounds and religions, and our citizens hold
diverse beliefs. In prayer, we share the universal desire to speak
and listen to our Maker and to seek the plans He has for our lives.
....In this hour of history's calling, Americans are bowing humbly in
churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, and in their own homes, in the
presence of the Almighty. ...Now, therefore, I, George W. Bush,
President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 1,
2003, as a National Day of Prayer. I ask the citizens of our Nation
to pray, each after his or her own faith, in thanksgiving for the
freedoms and blessings we have received and for God's continued
guidance and protection. ...We are mindful as well that some good men
and women are not making the journey home. ...Every name, every life
is a loss to our military, to our nation and to the loved ones who
grieve. There is no homecoming for these families. Yet we pray in
God's time their reunion will come. ...God told me to strike at al
Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam
[Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem
in the Middle East. If you [Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas]
help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will
have to focus on them. ...Islam's a peaceful religion. The basic
tenets of Islam is peace and respect and tolerance.
....Ramadan...provides Muslims a time to...practice God's commands.
....Islam is a peaceful religion... Ramadan...this holy time..is...a
good time for people of all faiths to reflect on...[our] gratitude to
God... I particularly want to thank Imam Faizul Khan, who will lead
us in prayer. ...Islam is a religion that brings hope and comfort to
good people across America and around the world. Tonight we
honor...the tradition of Islam by hosting this Iftaar at the White
House. ...[To the remark, "Some people who share your beliefs don't
believe that Muslims worship the same Almighty."] I do say that...I
believe we worship the same God."
HpO
.

User: "Mark Fox"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	29 Nov 2003 11:20:20 PM

(HP Opus) wrote

mark_fox_@yahoo.com (Mark Fox) wrote

(HP Opus) wrote

Another interesting quote from one of your sources:

http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/07/07/born_again/index4.html

Olasky first met Bush in 1993 after his book, "The Tragedy of American
Compassion," .... -- [Bush] will say, 'We are sinners.' And that
makes a huge difference," Olasky says. "He comes off as inclusively
saying the same things to others that he says to himself. 'We're
sinners. Whatever good things I occasionally do come from God's
grace.' This is more than rhetoric. This is understanding."

Oh, now we see what you mean, Mark Fox. To you, "President Bush [is]
a devout Christian...professing the true principles of Christianity"
because of the above quote?

Yes, exactly.
and thanks again for all the other great quotes. I think you are the
only one in the newsgroup who actually quotes the President and
provides a reference to the source.
.

User: "HP Opus"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	30 Nov 2003 08:39:53 AM

(Mark Fox) wrote in message news:<a258afb5.0311292120.768ff68@posting.google.com>...

hp_opus@hotmail.com (HP Opus) wrote

(Mark Fox) wrote

hp_opus@hotmail.com (HP Opus) wrote

Another interesting quote from one of your sources:

http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/07/07/born_again/index4.html

Olasky first met Bush in 1993 after his book, "The Tragedy of American
Compassion," .... -- [Bush] will say, 'We are sinners.' And that
makes a huge difference," Olasky says. "He comes off as inclusively
saying the same things to others that he says to himself. 'We're
sinners. Whatever good things I occasionally do come from God's
grace.' This is more than rhetoric. This is understanding."

Oh, now we see what you mean, Mark Fox. To you, "President Bush [is]
a devout Christian...professing the true principles of Christianity"
because of the above quote?

Yes, exactly [AND I CHOOSE TO IGNORE WHATEVER ELSE BUSH HAS SAID AND
ALL HIS OTHER SPIRITUAL FRUITS].

and thanks again for all the other great quotes. I think you are the
only one in the newsgroup who actually quotes the President and
provides a reference to the source.

Wow. That implied bit there in what you said above about you choosing
to ignore whatever else Bush has said and all his other fruits fruits,
deserve some attention on your part there, Mark Fox. But then again,
given you're into "Cheap Grace" Gospel, I must remind you now:
Remember Jesus always and receive daily -- even this day! -- the good
news of salvation from His crucifixion, burial and resurrection, with
a heart of repentance, faith, obedience, service, love and joyful
endurance.
Otherwise you too are going to hell. And that's God's word, if you'd
ever care to read your Bible again.
One with you (if) in Christ,
HP Opus
http://fellow-servants-of-christ.0catch.com
.

User: "Mark Fox"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	30 Nov 2003 02:03:04 PM

(HP Opus) wrote

mark_fox_@yahoo.com (Mark Fox) wrote

(HP Opus) wrote

mark_fox_@yahoo.com (Mark Fox) wrote

(HP Opus) wrote

Another interesting quote from one of your sources:

http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/07/07/born_again/index4.html

Olasky first met Bush in 1993 after his book, "The Tragedy of American
Compassion," .... -- [Bush] will say, 'We are sinners.' And that
makes a huge difference," Olasky says. "He comes off as inclusively
saying the same things to others that he says to himself. 'We're
sinners. Whatever good things I occasionally do come from God's
grace.' This is more than rhetoric. This is understanding."

Oh, now we see what you mean, Mark Fox. To you, "President Bush [is]
a devout Christian...professing the true principles of Christianity"
because of the above quote?

Yes, exactly

and thanks again for all the other great quotes. I think you are the
only one in the newsgroup who actually quotes the President and
provides a reference to the source.

Wow. ...But then again,
given you're into "Cheap Grace" Gospel,

I'm not seeking Grace only truth.

I must remind you now:

Remember Jesus always and receive daily -- even this day! -- the good
news of salvation from His crucifixion, burial and resurrection, with
a heart of repentance, faith, obedience, service, love and joyful
endurance.

I gladly receive not only God's good news of salvation through Jesus'
crixifixion, burial and resurrection but I also celebrate gladly God's
gift of the world we live in, the people he created and the wisdom he
has offered to me every day.

Otherwise you too are going to hell. And that's God's word, if you'd
ever care to read your Bible again.

here is a potential shocker for you.....
I am not interested in whether I go to hell or not. Not interested in
the least! If God chooses to send me to hell then so be his will. I
will rejoice in his wisdom. If God chooses to receive me in heaven
then I will rejoice in his gift. I am not interested in Christianity
because it benefits me but only because its true. God is the creator
and the rightful ruler of the universe and he sent his son to save us.
It is obvious and it is justice and I gladly accept it regardless of
what happens to me.

One with you (if) in Christ,

I am with you and for you because God created you. It doesn't matter
to me if you are in Christ or not.
.

User: "Caiaphas"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	05 Dec 2003 07:43:30 AM

"Mark Fox" <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote in message

I am not interested in whether I go to hell or not. Not interested in
the least! If God chooses to send me to hell then so be his will. I
will rejoice in his wisdom. If God chooses to receive me in heaven
then I will rejoice in his gift. I am not interested in Christianity
because it benefits me but only because its true. God is the creator
and the rightful ruler of the universe and he sent his son to save us.
It is obvious and it is justice and I gladly accept it regardless of
what happens to me.

I rolled back in this thread of conversation to try to understand the debate
between you Mark and Opus and found your profound statement. Those profound
words touches me as it expresses my beliefs too. Thanks.
I do share the same admiration you have that President Bush has not vilified
Islam, but I don't share the same admiration of President Bush's performance in
his job and most likely will vote against Bush in the next election.

I am with you and for you because God created you. It doesn't matter
to me if you are in Christ or not.

User: "HP Opus"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	01 Dec 2003 06:48:11 PM

(Mark Fox) wrote in message news:<a258afb5.0311301203.7aeed1af@posting.google.com>...

I gladly receive not only God's good news of salvation through
Jesus' crixifixion, burial and resurrection but I also
celebrate gladly God's gift of the world we live in,
the people he created and the wisdom he has offered to
me every day.

The clause "but I also" in your confession above confirms you're
spiritually lost, Mark Fox. And that's because you should've said,
but didn't, that it is ONLY IN "Jesus' crixifixion, burial and
resurrection" that "I...celebrate gladly God's gift of the world we
live in, the people he created and the wisdom he has offered to me
every day." According to your own admission, the source of your
celebration is not the gospel!
If Apostle Paul were here to get to know you better, the Bible says
he'd say to you that he wants to know nothing except Christ crucified.
But now hearing you boasting instead about some lofty humanistic
notions of the "gift of the world we live in" and of "people" and of
"wisdom...offered to me every day", you know what he'd say to you,
Mark Fox? That you remain clueless as to what "Jesus' crixifixion,
burial and resurrection" accomplish and signify, and that, therefore,
you remain condemned already in your sins. As such, you are a false
Christian, Mark Fox.

Another sign of your false Christianity right there! To this day you
still don't know the just criteria by which "God chooses to send me to
hell...[or] chooses to receive me in heaven"!

I am not interested in Christianity because it benefits
me but only because its true. God is the creator and the
rightful ruler of the universe and he sent his son to
save us. It is obvious and it is justice and I gladly
accept it regardless of what happens to me.

What -- "regardless of what happens to me"? Who do you think you are,
talking to God like that after all that He has accomplished for you
through His Son's crucifixion, burial and resurrection?! Have you no
fear of God -- the beginning of wisdom?! You dare God?! You stand
there daring Him in His holy presence with your "regardless[ness] of
what happens to me"?!

I am with you and for you because God created you. It doesn't
matter to me if you are in Christ or not.

But it matters to God and His Messiah. And that's all that matters.
And on that note, I bid you farewell. Please don't forget our
conversation. It may lead to your salvation yet one day, and from
that day on until forever! I sure would love to see you in heaven,
but only by the grace of God through the crucifixion, burial and
resurrection of His one and only Son, Jesus the Messiah!
One with you (if) in Christ,
HP Opus
http://fellow-servants-of-christ.0catch.com
.

User: "Mark Fox"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	03 Dec 2003 08:44:09 PM

(HP Opus) wrote...

mark_fox_@yahoo.com (Mark Fox) wrote...

I gladly receive not only God's good news of salvation through
Jesus' crucifixion, burial and resurrection but I also
celebrate gladly God's gift of the world we live in,
the people he created and the wisdom he has offered to
me every day.

The clause "but I also" in your confession above confirms you're
spiritually lost, Mark Fox.

Interesting how you have appointed yourself as the judge and jury of
the spirituality of others. I of course believe that it is God who is
the judge and jury. I would ask you to consider that it is you who is
confused and that is you who is spiritually lost. Actually, the word
"lost" is not quite the right term. Instead of "lost" you seem to not
be very spiritually mature. This is common with people who are new to
God's word or people who have difficulty getting beyond memorizing
God's word and moving into the realm of understanding.

And that's because you should've said,
but didn't,

And would this thing I "should have said" be intended to satisfy God
or you?

that it is ONLY IN "Jesus' crucifixion, burial and
resurrection" that "I...celebrate gladly God's gift of the world we
live in, the people he created and the wisdom he has offered to me
every day."

Isn't that obvious, Opus? Don't you find it a little petty and
shallow to announce that Jesus is the only way to salvation? There is
only one God and only one Jesus. It almost seems that you have the
need to announce it because you don't quite believe it yourself. I
also don't announce when the sun rises in the east every morning,
Opus. Its understood.

According to your own admission, the source of your
celebration is not the gospel!

My source of celebration is from God through his son Jesus as told in
the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It is true that God
inspired men to write a wonderful book but I do not worship the book
as you seem to be doing. I worship God and his son Jesus and I
celebrate the world He created. Do you hate the world he created,
Opus? You seemed to get quite upset when I mentioned the importance
of the world God created for us.

If Apostle Paul were here to get to know you better, the Bible says
he'd say to you that he wants to know nothing except Christ crucified.

"The Bible says that Apostle Paul says"?????
I'm sorry, Opus, I worship God, not Paul and not any book. You seem
confused. Also, Opus, I should point out to you that the Gospels tell
the story of Jesus not Paul. If you are a Christian and wanted to talk
to someone described in the Bible then wouldn't you want to talk to
Jesus? Are you perhaps not really sure that Jesus exists and thats
why you would rather talk to Paul? Is that what all this fuss is
about, Opus, are you unsure of your faith?

But now hearing you boasting instead about some lofty humanistic
notions of the "gift of the world we live in" and of "people" and of
"wisdom...offered to me every day", you know what he'd say to you,

I profess my unconditional devotion to God and his son Jesus and my
love for the world He created and you call that a "boast"? What?
Lofty humanistic notions? What? Have you read the Gospels? Do you
know of the second greatest commandment? We are commanded to love our
neighbor as we love ourselves.

That you remain clueless

Yes, that was exactly what I was thinking!

as to what "Jesus' crucifixion,
burial and resurrection" accomplish and signify, and that, therefore,
you remain condemned already in your sins.

I feel quite sure of my basic understanding of the significance of
Jesus' crucifixion, burial and resurrection, Opus. There is however,
Opus, so much more meaning to that story than the basics. I recommend
that after you become comfortable with the basic concepts, Opus, that
you put some effort into understanding the deeper meanings.

As such, you are a false
Christian, Mark Fox.

As I said before, failure on your part to comprehend the deeper
meanings of God's word does not make me a false Christian any more
than your shallowness of faith makes you a false Christian.

here is a potential shocker for you.....

Yes, I see that you have indeed been shocked by my deeper faith.

Another sign of your false Christianity right there! To this day you
still don't know the just criteria by which "God chooses to send me to
hell...[or] chooses to receive me in heaven"!

You have completely missed the point and have wondered off into the
weeds.

What -- "regardless of what happens to me"? Who do you think you are,
talking to God like that after all that He has accomplished for you
through His Son's crucifixion, burial and resurrection?!

Who do I think I am? I am a person who worships God and follows Jesus
unconditionally, Opus.

Have you no fear of God --

Fear God, Opus? Why, no. I don't fear God. Fear of God is for
Children, Opus. Are you a child, Opus? I love God and celebrate
God's offer of salvation through Jesus as described in the Gospels,
Opus.

the beginning of wisdom?! You dare God?! You stand
there daring Him in His holy presence with your "regardless[ness] of
what happens to me"?!

The only person who I "dare" is you, Opus. I dare you to grow up and
stop acting like a child. Stop being offended for God. Stop trying to
be God, deciding who is daring him and who is not. Put down the book
of Acts for a while and stop trying to speak for God. Instead, take
your focus off of Paul and worship God, his son Jesus and love all
people as you are commanded to in the Gospels, Matthew 22:37, Mark
12:28 and Luke 10:25.

I am with you and for you because God created you. It doesn't
matter to me if you are in Christ or not.

But it matters to God and His Messiah. And that's all that matters.

If that is true then why is Jesus' second of two commandments to us
say "Love your neighbor as yourself"?

And on that note, I bid you farewell. Please don't forget our
conversation. It may lead to your salvation yet one day, and from
that day on until forever!

Just as your hero, Paul, once killed Christians because he thought he
could speak for God, you are on the wrong path and you haven't learned
Paul's lesson. This is sad because God put the book of Acts in the
Bible for you to learn but you have not. Please don't forget this
conversation. It may lead to your salvation yet one day. I will pray
for your enlightenment just as Paul was enlightned by Jesus himself
and he turned from his rigid, self righteous, wicked ways of hatred
and murder.

I sure would love to see you in heaven,

Perhaps you should pay a little more attention to where you are now
and to following God's instructions today. If you do that then Heaven
will take care of itself.

but only by the grace of God through the crucifixion, burial and
resurrection of His one and only Son, Jesus the Messiah!

There never was any arguement about that, Opus. It was only your ego
that wasn't getting stroked.
I beseech you to put away your arrogance, read the Gospels and take
your focus off of Paul and put it on Jesus where it belongs. Please
read all the Gospels this time and try to understand their meaning.
God is worth it!

One with you (if) in Christ,

God loves you anyway, Opus, even if you are afraid of God, unsure of
your faith in him and angry at me for trying to explain concepts above
your comprehension. When your faith is more mature you will no longer
feel the need to put "(if)" in your thoughts, words or deeds.
You too will love God and the world he created unconditionally.
.

User: "Caiaphas"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	04 Dec 2003 07:12:11 AM

"Mark Fox" <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote in message

I like the way you expressed yourself with the above statement.
Its how I perceive God, Jesus, the Bible, and the world and you expressed it
well.
.

User: "HP Opus"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	04 Dec 2003 07:14:17 PM

"Caiaphas" <Nyquist314159@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<YoGzb.121$F5.3090@eagle.america.net>...

I like the way you expressed yourself with the above statement.
Its how I perceive God, Jesus, the Bible, and the world and you expressed it
well.

What -- "perceive"?
Get saved too, Caiaphas, by the blood of the Lamb of God, Jesus
Christ!
Get this -- "God, Jesus, the Bible" -- your "perceptions" of them
matter nothing in eternity. What counts is that you remember Jesus
always and receive daily -- even this day! -- the good news of
salvation from His crucifixion, burial and resurrection, with a heart
of repentance, faith, obedience, service, love and joyful endurance.
Not with how you "perceive God, Jesus, the Bible, and the world".
One with you (if) in Christ,
HP Opus
http://fellow-servants-of-christ.0catch.com
.

User: "Caiaphas"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	05 Dec 2003 07:26:46 AM

"HP Opus" <hp_opus@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7d08d3ed.0312041714.475ada9a@posting.google.com...

"Caiaphas" <Nyquist314159@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:<YoGzb.121$F5.3090@eagle.america.net>...

I like the way you expressed yourself with the above statement.
Its how I perceive God, Jesus, the Bible, and the world and you expressed it
well.

What -- "perceive"?

Get saved too, Caiaphas, by the blood of the Lamb of God, Jesus
Christ!

Get this -- "God, Jesus, the Bible" -- your "perceptions" of them
matter nothing in eternity. What counts is that you remember Jesus
always and receive daily -- even this day! -- the good news of
salvation from His crucifixion, burial and resurrection, with a heart
of repentance, faith, obedience, service, love and joyful endurance.

Not with how you "perceive God, Jesus, the Bible, and the world".

One with you (if) in Christ,

HP Opus
http://fellow-servants-of-christ.0catch.com

HP Opus, I think the issue is semantics. At the core we believe similarly, but
perceive many things differently.
.

User: "HP Opus"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	04 Dec 2003 07:08:16 PM

(Mark Fox) wrote in message news:<a258afb5.0312031844.19e4dfdc@posting.google.com>...

Interesting how you have appointed yourself as the judge and jury of
the spirituality of others. I of course believe that it is God who is
the judge and jury.

....by which you spiritually blindedly meant on 30 November:
"If God chooses to send me to hell then so be his will. I will
rejoice in his wisdom. If God chooses to receive me in heaven then I
will rejoice in his gift. ...it is justice and I gladly accept it
regardless of what happens to me."
Some "judge and jury" this christless god of yours! Surely not the
Biblical God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the Prophets, Jesus, Paul, and
HP Opus.

...it [is] a little petty and
shallow to announce that Jesus is the only way to salvation?

Like I said, to quote the New Testament apostles, what an anti-christ
you're following who judges the gospel of the crucifixion, burial and
resurrection of Jesus Christ as -- what's your description again, Mark
Fox? oh, yeah -- "petty and shallow".

I also don't announce when the sun rises in the east every morning,
Opus. Its understood.

Get this: you're deep down clueless when it comes to Jesus Christ and
the gospel of His crucifixion, burial and resurrection, having spent
all your life in liberal and lukewarm churches!

I celebrate the world [and stress] the importance of the world... I profess my...love for the world

ERGO: MARK FOX IS WORLDLY. No true disciple of Jesus Christ is!

not really sure that Jesus exists...[one] would rather talk to Paul

You sure hang on to a dichotomous, split-minded bible of some sort,
one that pits Paul over against Jesus and vice-versa. But it sure
isn't the Bible! Your Historic Jesus also sure isn't the Biblical
Jesus!

Do you
know of the second greatest commandment? We are commanded to love our
neighbor as we love ourselves.

Lovey-dovey liberalism and lovey-dovey liberals -- God has spit them
all out of His kingdom!

I feel quite sure of my basic understanding of the significance of
Jesus' crucifixion, burial and resurrection, Opus. There is however,
Opus, so much more meaning to that story than the basics.

Nothing's more "than the basics" of the gospel of the crucifixion,
burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I'm telling you; there's
nothing about you the apostles would care, seeing as you've forfeitted
on "the basics" of their Biblical testimonies! Nothing. You've
forsaken your first love (assuming you've possessed it in the first
place. Speaking of which -- testify, Mark Fox, on how you got saved
by the blood of Jesus Christ in the first place!)

As I said before, failure on your part to comprehend the deeper
meanings of God's word does not make me a false Christian any more
than your shallowness of faith makes you a false Christian.

I wasn't interested in a comparison between you and me. I'm simply
testifying to you, "Mark Fox, you're spiritually lost. So get saved,
man!"

Who do I think I am? I am a person who worships God and follows Jesus
unconditionally, Opus.

Hear me well: you are NOT!

I...celebrate

There's that stupid word again! What are you -- in a trance, consumed
by humanistic ideals that have taken over liberal churches for a long,
long time now? Stop fooling yourself. Get out of wherever it is you
hang out for a jolly good spiritual time. Go back to the cross of
Jesus Christ -- and stay there this time!

Put down the book
of Acts...take
your focus off of Paul

Get thee behind, etc., etc.

Perhaps you should pay a little more attention to where you are now...
If you do that then Heaven will take care of itself. ...You too will
love...the world...unconditionally.

ERGO: MARK FOX IS WORLDLY. No true disciple of Jesus Christ is!
As such you're still condemned in your sin. Be born from above, Mark
Fox -- not from hell!
One with you (if) in Christ,
HP Opus
http://fellow-servants-of-christ.0catch.com
.

User: "Caiaphas"
Title: Re: Jesus broke down the walls of hatred between Jew and Samartian -- would He try to break down the wall of hatred we have for Arabs and Arab Culture?	05 Dec 2003 07:32:32 AM

"HP Opus" <hp_opus@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7d08d3ed.0312041708.6d93508c@posting.google.com...

mark_fox_@yahoo.com (Mark Fox) wrote in message

news:<a258afb5.0312031844.19e4dfdc@posting.google.com>...

"If God chooses to send me to hell then so be his will. I will
rejoice in his wisdom. If God chooses to receive me in heaven then I
will rejoice in his gift. ...it is justice and I gladly accept it
regardless of what happens to me."

Mark, another remarkable statement and a lot of meaning when you ponder on those
words.
HP Opus, I have not followed this complete thread of conversation but do you
think that it is more a semantics issue or do you question Marks core beliefs?

Some "judge and jury" this christless god of yours! Surely not the
Biblical God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the Prophets, Jesus, Paul, and
HP Opus.

...it [is] a little petty and
shallow to announce that Jesus is the only way to salvation?

I also don't announce when the sun rises in the east every morning,
Opus. Its understood.

Get this: you're deep down clueless when it comes to Jesus Christ and
the gospel of His crucifixion, burial and resurrection, having spent
all your life in liberal and lukewarm churches!

I celebrate the world [and stress] the importance of the world... I profess

my...love for the world