Religions > Bible > “Jesus is God the Creator,” versus those who say, “Jesus is not God,”
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Joseph" |
| Date: |
28 Aug 2006 02:22:52 PM |
| Object: |
“Jesus is God the Creator,” versus those who say, “Jesus is not God,” |
In the arguments of those who say “Jesus is God the Creator,” versus those
who say, “Jesus is not God,” I can agree with some of what both sides are
saying, but the difficulty in their understanding on both sides that
prevents them from getting acquainted with our Holy Creator, is that the
word "God" does not mean "Creator" in the Holy Scriptures. You are Gods and
we are to pray to and worship no other God than the Most High. Even the
Devil is named “the God of this world,” and this does not make the name
"Gods" evil, the way both sides have done in their understanding, and it
does not mean that those who know that they are named Gods think that they
are the Creator or are playing God.
Psalm 82:6 “I have said, You are Gods; and all of you are children of the
Most High.”
The name of the Most High is named upon the whole family in heaven and upon
earth.
Ephesians 3:
“14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be
strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that you, being rooted and
grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all Saints what is the breadth, and
length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be
filled with all the fullness of God.”
You are called Gods and Goddesses and Godparents and Godchildren and Lords
and Ladies because the name of the Father is named upon all the Gods, good
and evil. The devil is called the God of this world.
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which
believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the
image of God, should shine unto them.
Like Jesus, all men and women are finished in the image of God.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God
created he
him; male and female created he them.
Stripping the name "God" off Jesus or off the Saints hides the truth that we
are
finished in the image of God.
The Saints are believers that are yet alive, they are canonized as Saints by
the
Father while they are yet alive, not by men who erringly canonize them after
death.
Ephesians 1:
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the Saints which
are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus
Christ.
Men and Angels that believe in heaven and upon earth are named Gods and
Lords and Jehovah as God of Gods and Lord of Lords leads them all.
Deuteronomy 10:17 For Jehovah your God is God of Gods, and Lord of Lords, a
great God, a mighty, and terrible, which regards not persons, nor takes
reward:
Joshua 22:22 Jehovah God of Gods, Jehovah God of Gods, he knows, and Israel
he
shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against Jehovah,
(save us not this day,)
Psalm 136:2 O give thanks unto the God of Gods: for his mercy endures for
ever.
Stripping the name "God" off Jesus or off the Saints or off the Angels or
off the devils encourages some to pray to these other Gods without remorse,
and stripping the name Gods off believers encourages other to persecute and
even kill the sanctified Gods and Lords.
The name Jehovah is the sanctified name of the Father, and is only used when
referring to the Creator. Here is the way the Hebrew language says it.
Psalm 110:1 A Psalm of David. Jehovah said unto my Adown, Sit you at my
right hand, until I make your enemies stool your feet.
The first and great commandment tells us who our Creator is, Jehovah is not
the Adown sitting at the right hand.
De 6:5 And you shall love Jehovah your God with all your heart, and with all
your soul, and with all your might.
Love and prayers
Joseph
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=93Jesus?= is God the Creator,=?iso-8859-1?Q?=94?=versus those who say, =?iso-8859-1?Q?=93Jesus?= is not God,=?iso-8859-1?Q?=94?= |
28 Aug 2006 07:11:18 PM |
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If there ever was a real Jesus, he was just a Gelilean rebel leader,
(Jesus Barabbas, "son of the Father"), transformed by the Gospel writers into a
goody-goody turn-the-other-cheek pacifist, out of fear of the Romans.
As for that man being the "creator", it is just ridiculous.
The eternal Cosmic Totality has no beginning, therefore there
cannot be an "creator". -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Joseph" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
28 Aug 2006 07:34:07 PM |
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"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:44F38626.9CF3F1ED@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
If there ever was a real Jesus, he was just a Gelilean rebel leader,
(Jesus Barabbas, "son of the Father"), transformed by the Gospel writers
into a
goody-goody turn-the-other-cheek pacifist, out of fear of the Romans.
As for that man being the "creator", it is just ridiculous.
The eternal Cosmic Totality has no beginning, therefore there
cannot be an "creator". -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Jesus Barabbas, (the name "Jesus" unfortunatly not translated into English
there) was a murder that was released by Pilot, Jesus of Nazareth was
crucified, died, and was burried, and God resurected him from among the
dead, and ascended him up into heaven, and poured him out as the promised
Salvation from the loins of Judah and of the house of David. I rewrote my
post and added some things that I left out.
In the arguments of those who say "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those
who say, "Jesus is not God," I can agree with some of what both sides are
saying because some of their words float up into heaven, and I accept that,
but some of their other words from the same mouths sink like lead, and I
reject that. The difficulty in their understanding on both sides that
prevents them from getting acquainted with our Holy Creator and with his
uniquely begotten Son our Salvation, is that the words "God and Lord" do not
mean "Creator" in the Holy Scriptures. You are Gods and Lords and we are to
pray to and worship no other God and Lord than the Most High named Jehovah.
His Son Jesus is named a God and Lord, you are named Gods and Lords, Angels
are named Gods and Lords, and even the Devil is named "the God of this
world," and "Lord of the Earth," and the devils are named Gods and Lords,
and this does not make the names "Gods or Lords" evil, the way both sides
have done in their understanding, and it does not mean that those who know
that they are named Gods and Lords think that they are the Creator, or are
playing God or Lord, and it does not mean that they worship any God other
than the Most High. Truly there is only one God that created the heavens and
the earth, his name is Jehovah.
Psalm 82:6 "I have said, You are Gods; and all of you are children of the
Most High."
The names of the Most High are named upon the whole family in heaven and
upon
earth, that includes all of his names except the Hebrew name Jehovah.
Ephesians 3:
"14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would
grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with
might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your
hearts by faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able
to comprehend with all Saints what is the breadth, and
length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which
passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fullness of God."
Because people are named Gods and Lords, any stature of a person is a molten
God or Goddess, or is a molten Lord or Lady, or is a graven image that
cannot speak.
Ex 20:4 "You shall not make unto yourself any graven image, or any likeness
of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
that is in the water under the earth: 5 You shall not bow down yourself to
them, nor serve them: for I Jehovah your God am a jealous God, visiting the
iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth
generation of them that hate me;"
Exodus 34:13 "But you shall destroy their altars, break their images, and
cut down their groves: 14 For you shall worship no other God: for Jehovah,
whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: 15 Lest you make a covenant with
the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their Gods, and do
sacrifice unto their Gods, and one call you, and you eat of his sacrifice;
16 And you take of their daughters unto your sons, and their daughters go a
whoring after their Gods, and make your sons go a whoring after their Gods.
17 You shall make you no molten Gods."
Leviticus 26:1 "You shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear
you up a standing image, neither shall you set up any image of stone in your
land, to bow down unto it: for I am Jehovah your God."
Deuteronomy 4:11 And you came near and stood under the mountain; and the
mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds,
and thick darkness. 12 And Jehovah spoke unto you out of the midst of the
fire: you heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only you
heard a voice. 13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded
you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of
stone. 14 And Jehovah commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and
judgments, that you might do them in the land whither you go over to possess
it. 15 Take you therefore good heed unto yourselves; for you saw no manner
of similitude on the day that Jehovah spoke unto you in Horeb out of the
midst of the fire: 16 Lest you corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven
image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, 17 The
likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl
that flies in the air, 18 The likeness of any thing that creeps on the
ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: 19
And lest you lift up your eyes unto heaven, and when you see the sun, and
the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, should be driven to
worship them, and serve them, which Jehovah your God has divided unto all
nations under the whole heaven. 20 But Jehovah has taken you, and brought
you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a
people of inheritance, as you are this day. 21 Furthermore Jehovah was angry
with me for your sakes, and swore that I should not go over Jordan, and that
I should not go in unto that good land, which Jehovah your God gives you for
an inheritance: 22 But I must die in this land, I must not go over Jordan:
but you shall go over, and possess that good land. 23 Take heed unto
yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of Jehovah your God, which he made
with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which
Jehovah your God has forbidden you. 24 For Jehovah your God is a consuming
fire, even a jealous God."
You are called Gods and Goddesses, and Godparents and Godchildren, and Lords
and Ladies, because the names of the Father are named upon all the Gods and
Lords, good and evil. Any person, or statue of a person, is a God other than
invisible Jehovah our Creator, and our invisible Creator's works are
manifested by Spirit in the hearts and minds of them that follow and worship
him. The invisible Devil is called the God of this world, and his works are
idols manifested by Spirit in the hearts and minds of those that are blinded
by it, so the idol itself is nothing but an instrument that the Devil uses
to blind the mind from getting acquainted with and following Spirit Jehovah
and from seeing his visible Son.
2Corinthians 4:4 "In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of
them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who
is the image of God, should shine unto them."
Like Jesus, all men and women are finished in the image of God.
Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God
created he him; male and female created he them."
Stripping the name "God" off Jesus or off the Saints hides the truth that we
are all finished in the image of God, and we are to worship and serve none
but the Most High.
To strip Jesus of the names God and Lord is to deny his name, we must not
only not deny his name, we must get rid of the things offered unto idols,
things that lead us away from Jehovah..
Revelation 2:12 "And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These
things says he which has the sharp sword with two edges; 13 I know your
works, and where you dwell, even where Satan's seat is: and you hold fast my
name, and have not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was
my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I
have a few things against you, because you have there them that hold the
doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the
children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit
fornication. 15 So have you also them that hold the doctrine of the
Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee
quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. 17 He that
has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches; To him that
overcomes will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white
stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knows saving he
that receives it."
The Saints are believers that are yet alive, they are canonized as Saints by
the Father while they are yet alive, not by men who erringly canonize them
after death.
Ephesians 1:
"1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the Saints which
are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace be to you, and
peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ."
Men and Angels that believe in heaven and upon earth are named Gods and
Lords and Jehovah as God of Gods and Lord of Lords leads them all.
Deuteronomy 10:17 "For Jehovah your God is God of Gods, and Lord of Lords, a
great God, a mighty, and terrible, which regards not persons, nor takes
reward:"
Joshua 22:22 "Jehovah God of Gods, Jehovah God of Gods, he knows, and Israel
he
shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against Jehovah,
(save us not this day,)"
Psalm 136:2 "O give thanks unto the God of Gods: for his mercy endures for
ever."
Psalm 136:3 "O give thanks to the Lord of Lords: for his mercy endures for
ever."
Stripping the names "God or Lord" off Jesus or off the Saints or off the
Angels or off the devils encourages some to pray to these other Gods and
Lords without remorse, and stripping the names "Gods and Lords" off
believers encourages other to persecute and even kill the sanctified Gods
and Lords whose names are written in heaven.
Luke 10:20 "Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are
subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in
heaven."
Hebrews 12:23 "To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which
are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of
just men made perfect,"
Some even dare to deliberately open their mouth in blasphemy against God, to
blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven, and
to make war with the Saints that dwell upon earth. These are they that strip
the creation of the names God and Lord, exalting themselves above all
rightfully called God or Lord.
2Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called
God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God,
showing himself that he is God."
Revelation 13:1 "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise
up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten
crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I
saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and
his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his
seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded
to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after
the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast:
and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is
able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking
great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty
and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to
blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And
it was given unto him to make war with the Saints, and to overcome them: and
power was given him over all kindred, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all
that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in
the book of life of the Lamb slain from the deposit of the world."
The name Jehovah is the sanctified name of the Father, and is only used when
referring to the Creator, his names God and Lord and Spirit is named upon
all in heaven and upon earth. Here is the way the Hebrew language says it.
Psalm 110:1 "A Psalm of David. Jehovah said unto my Adown, Sit you at my
right hand, until I make your enemies stool your feet."
The first and great commandment tells us who our Creator is, Jehovah is not
the Adown sitting at the right hand.
De 6:5 "And you shall love Jehovah your God with all your heart, and with
all your soul, and with all your might."
Love and prayers
Joseph
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is notGod," |
05 Sep 2006 04:44:50 PM |
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Joseph wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:44F38626.9CF3F1ED@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
If there ever was a real Jesus, he was just a Gelilean rebel leader,
(Jesus Barabbas, "son of the Father"), transformed by the Gospel writers
into a
goody-goody turn-the-other-cheek pacifist, out of fear of the Romans.
As for that man being the "creator", it is just ridiculous.
The eternal Cosmic Totality has no beginning, therefore there
cannot be an "creator". -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Jesus Barabbas, (the name "Jesus" unfortunatly not translated into English
there) was a murder that was released by Pilot,
===>That is just a twist invented by the story writers to separate
themselves from the Jews.
In fact there never was any such rule or any such practice by anyone.
Any representative of the Empire who released a rebel and murderer,
and executed an innocent man, would have himself been executed by
the Romans.
The whole story is ahistorical and ridiculous nonsense.
Jesus of Nazareth was
crucified, died, and was burried, and God resurected him from among the
dead, and ascended him up into heaven, and poured him out as the promised
Salvation from the loins of Judah and of the house of David. I rewrote my
post and added some things that I left out.
===>What "salvation"?
The destruction of Israel, Jerusalem and its Temple?
Is that how the "son of David" was supposed to save his people?
What colossal nonsense! -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is notGod," |
28 Aug 2006 08:44:18 PM |
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Joseph wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:44F38626.9CF3F1ED@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
If there ever was a real Jesus, he was just a Gelilean rebel leader,
(Jesus Barabbas, "son of the Father"), transformed by the Gospel writers
into a
goody-goody turn-the-other-cheek pacifist, out of fear of the Romans.
As for that man being the "creator", it is just ridiculous.
The eternal Cosmic Totality has no beginning, therefore there
cannot be an "creator". -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Jesus Barabbas, (the name "Jesus" unfortunatly not translated into English
there) was a murder that was released by Pilot, Jesus of Nazareth was
crucified, died, and was burried, and God resurected him from among the
dead, and ascended him up into heaven, and poured him out as the promised
Salvation from the loins of Judah and of the house of David. I rewrote my
post and added some things that I left out.
===>
GET AN EDUCATION:
Jesus Barabbas was most likely a real person.
He surrounded himself with armed, militant ZEALOTS.
E.g. Simon Zelotes (Gospel of Luke and Acts) is obviously Simon the Zealot.
Matthew and Mark hide this by using the word KANANAIOS, from the Aramaic
QANNAIM, meaning ZEALOTS!
Also, the same meaning is carried by the words Simon Barjona (BARJONIM=REBELS)
Even the Talmud condemned them for starting the revolt against Rome.
Judas the Sicarius ("Iskariot") is a dagger-wielding TERRORIST!
"The cross was the symbol of Zealot sacrifice
before it was transformed into the sign of Christian Salvation."
(S.G.F. Brandon: Jesus and the Zealots.1967)
It was THAT "Jesus" who made satements like:
Matthew (x:34-35)
Think not that I come to send peace on earth:
I come not to send peace but a sword.
For I come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother,
and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." (Matthew 10:34-35)
Also:
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother...
he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26).
He considered the Gentile the same as "DOGS" (Mark
7:24-30; Matthew 15:21-28)
Also, though his men were already armed,
(some editor no doubt changed TWENTY swords to "TWO" swords),
he ordered his men to sell
their coats and buy swords. (Luke 22:36 He said to them,
"... if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.")
In writing the Gospel story, this REAL PERSON was transformed
into a magical "son of God" and a turn-the-other-cheek pacifist.
No doubt out of fear of Roman persecution after the Jewish War. -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: “Jesus is God the Creator,” versus those who say, “Jesus is not God,” |
29 Aug 2006 10:22:59 AM |
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John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and
the world knew him not.
*** So Jesus created the world ***
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
*** Jehovah came to the Jews but they didn't recognize Him. ***
Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that
formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all
[things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth
abroad the earth by myself;
*** Here Jesus explains that he created the earth ALONE ***
Zechariah 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel,
saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth
the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within
him.
Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall
prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall
suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant,
whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of
hosts.
*** Jehovah came suddenly to His temple. ****
Jesus Christ, Jehovah God manifest in the flesh. Jesus Christ is
God!
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
29 Aug 2006 10:28:34 PM |
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"Uncle Davey" <jerzy.jakubowski@gmail.com> spake thusly and
wrote:
When Christ was born of Mary and lying in a manger, was the God of
eternity nowhere else but in this One tiny baby?
God did not cease to be omnipresent even when He died on
a cross and raised Himself from the dead.
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
30 Aug 2006 06:29:32 AM |
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On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:28:34 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter
<steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote:
"Uncle Davey" <jerzy.jakubowski@gmail.com> spake thusly and
wrote:
When Christ was born of Mary and lying in a manger, was the God of
eternity nowhere else but in this One tiny baby?
God did not cease to be omnipresent even when He died on
a cross and raised Himself from the dead.
Pastor Winter
FOLLOWUP cancelled
You also tend to forget, 'Pastor'--- that when Jesus was on the cross,
He cried out :My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
He was crying out to God, the REAL Holy Father.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
Mar 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My
God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
So according to your faulty logic, He was talking to Himself?
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
30 Aug 2006 11:39:23 AM |
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spake thusly and wrote:
God did not cease to be omnipresent even when He died on
a cross and raised Himself from the dead.
Pastor Winter
FOLLOWUP cancelled
You also tend to forget, 'Pastor'--- that when Jesus was on the cross,
He cried out :My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
He was crying out to God, the REAL Holy Father.
It is good when false-christian scum like Merle Elaine Matthews
so clearly show from their own words that they don't believe that
Jesus is really God. Thanks Merle, I knew you were
false-christian scum now others will see also.
Isn't the polytheistic false-christian scum Merle Elaine Matthews
just as "romanist" as her beloved pope?
The blatant hypocrisy of false-christian scum like Merle Elaine
Matthews says more about them than I ever could. How can these
scum like Merle make such a mockery of the Bible and still expect
to be taken seriously.
So far the deceiving, polytheistic false-christian devilette
Merle Elaine Matthews always changes the subject when she is
asked what the difference is between the trinity that she
worships and the trinity that the pope worships. That is
because, in spite of her ravings against "romanism", she is just
as "romanist" as the pope is and worships the EXACT same
"Romanist" god squad.
In what way is Merle's Roman three headed, idol god squad
different from the popes three headed Roman idol god squad?
In what way is Merle's trinity cult baptism different than the
pope's trinity cult baptism?
Merle can't answer these questions without making major
admissions about her romanist faith, eh?
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
30 Aug 2006 01:23:06 PM |
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On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:39:23 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter
<steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote:
alt.religion.christian.pentecostal,alt.religion.christian.charismatic,alt.religion.christianity,alt.bible,alt.christian.bible,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.religion.christian.baptist,free.christians
Like I said, FOLLOWUP CANCELLED, whiner.........
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is notGod," |
30 Aug 2006 10:45:51 AM |
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wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:28:34 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter
<steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote:
"Uncle Davey" <jerzy.jakubowski@gmail.com> spake thusly and
wrote:
When Christ was born of Mary and lying in a manger, was the God of
eternity nowhere else but in this One tiny baby?
God did not cease to be omnipresent even when He died on
a cross and raised Himself from the dead.
Pastor Winter
FOLLOWUP cancelled
You also tend to forget, 'Pastor'--- that when Jesus was on the cross,
He cried out :My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
He was crying out to God, the REAL Holy Father.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
Mar 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My
God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
So according to your faulty logic, He was talking to Himself?
===>Since the "Father", exists only in the believer's mind,
As do all gods and other imaginary beings,
EVERYONE who prays is "talking to himself". -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
30 Aug 2006 01:21:45 PM |
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On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:45:51 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
===>Since the "Father", exists only in the believer's mind,
As do all gods and other imaginary beings,
EVERYONE who prays is "talking to himself". -- L.
You are entitled to that belief if you wish. As for me, I DO believe
God exists, and Jesus is the Savior.
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| User: "Joseph" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
30 Aug 2006 02:21:20 PM |
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<NOspam@no.spam> wrote in message
news:3plbf258v8vdd6qgoa50uj60i7e5j3trp9@4ax.com...
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:45:51 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
===>Since the "Father", exists only in the believer's mind,
As do all gods and other imaginary beings,
EVERYONE who prays is "talking to himself". -- L.
You are entitled to that belief if you wish. As for me, I DO believe
God exists, and Jesus is the Savior.
The Devil believes God exists, he knows every word of God's word, there is
only one thing that sets those called aside from the Devil. The Hebrew word
"Yadah" is translated "to know" like in "Adam knew his wife and she
conceived." This word "Yadah" is to get personally acquainted with someone.
In the Scriptures when someone knows about Jehovah but does not form a
personal acquaintance with him, they are called men of Belial, like the sons
of the High Priest Eli in Samuel.
1 Samuel 2:12 "Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they acquainted not
Jehovah."
The Hebrew word "Dahath" derived from "Yahdah," is to form a full
acquaintance with someone, those who know about him but fail to form this
full acquaintance with Jehovah are called men of Belial, and they are
rejected by Jehovah like Spirit Jehovah says in Hosea 4:6, "my people are
destroyed for lack of acquaintance, because you have rejected my
acquaintance, I will also reject you and you shall be no priest unto me,
seeing you have forgotten the Law of your God, I will also forget your
children."
Priest often get rejected by Jehovah because they perform rituals, and speak
Scriptures, and pray for people, but they fail to develop the personal
relationship with Jehovah that comes by open visions revealing his word.
This happened to the High Priest Eli and his sons, and you can see here
Samuel knew about Jehovah but was not yet acquainted with him, and his word
was not yet revealed to him by open visions.
1 Samuel 3:1 "And the child Samuel ministered unto Jehovah before Eli. And
the word of Jehovah was precious in those days; there was no open vision. 2
And it came to pass at that time, when Eli was laid down in his place, and
his eyes began to wax dim, that he could not see; 3 And ere the lamp of God
went out in the temple of Jehovah, where the ark of God was, and Samuel was
laid down to sleep; 4 That Jehovah called Samuel: and he answered, Here am
I. 5 And he ran unto Eli, and said, Here am I; for you called me. And he
said, I called not; lie down again. And he went and lay down. 6 And Jehovah
called yet again, Samuel. And Samuel arose and went to Eli, and said, Here
am I; for you did call me. And he answered, I called not, my son; lie down
again. 7 Now Samuel did not yet acquaint Jehovah, neither was the word of
Jehovah yet revealed unto him. 8 And Jehovah called Samuel again the third
time. And he arose and went to Eli, and said, Here am I; for you did call
me. And Eli perceived that Jehovah had called the child. 9 Therefore Eli
said unto Samuel, Go, lie down: and it shall be, if he call you, that you
shall say, Speak, Jehovah; for your servant hears. So Samuel went and lay
down in his place. 10 And Jehovah came, and stood, and called as at other
times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for your servant hears.
11 And Jehovah said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which
both the ears of every one that hears it shall tingle. 12 In that day I will
perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house:
when I begin, I will also make an end. 13 For I have told him that I will
judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he acquainted; because his
sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not. 14 And therefore I
have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not
be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever."
Joseph enter the house and sat at the East wall to hear the word of Jehovah,
and when he heard of David hiding in the woods, the minister rose up saying,
"Who can tell when Joseph shall rise up?" When all of a sudden the Sun did
not shine and the Moon gave not her light, and the house became filled with
the darkness of the night, and amidst the darkness appeared a great field,
and amidst the field appeared five men in a huddle, all dressed the same,
wearing black sackcloth under their skin, all bent down and working upon the
same thing, when all of a sudden a great whirling wind with double edged
tongues of wind blew down from the North, and it swill down upon them as
Joseph rose from among the huddle laboring and eating hand to mouth, and
cleaning and shaving his face as he rose up over the other four who rose up
and began to scatter Southward as the great whirling wind began to chase
them as they began to stagger like drunken men, staggering and weeping and
howling as they ran in the darkness of the night with no place in all the
earth to hide from the great whirling wind, and one of them ran up to me
weeping and howling as their name appeared inside his forehead, "Belial,"
and Joseph in the vision turned unto the West and stood upon his two feet,
and then Joseph turned his back unto the men of Belial and walked Northward
and stood in fear and trembling as a tongue of the great whirling wind came
down and swirl about the crown of his bald head, and it began to fill him on
the inside, filling him from the crown of his bald head down unto his feet,
until the fullest filled was Joseph. Thus says Jehovah, "The house of
Ephraim the double anointed, anointed with Spirit Jehovah and with anointed
Spirit Adown Jesus, will rise as the houses of the High Priests being men of
Belial, scatter and begin to fight like drunken men consuming one another
across the face of the earth, with no place to hide as the Adown at my right
hand fights against them with the double edged sword of his mouth."
Love and prayers
Joseph
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is notGod," |
01 Sep 2006 05:55:34 PM |
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Joseph wrote:
<NOspam@no.spam> wrote in message
news:3plbf258v8vdd6qgoa50uj60i7e5j3trp9@4ax.com...
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:45:51 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
===>Since the "Father", exists only in the believer's mind,
As do all gods and other imaginary beings,
EVERYONE who prays is "talking to himself". -- L.
You are entitled to that belief if you wish. As for me, I DO believe
God exists, and Jesus is the Savior.
The Devil believes God exists
===>That is what some believer wrote, and
you happen to believe what he wrote.
What does that prove?
That you are a credulous person. -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is notGod," |
05 Sep 2006 04:39:07 PM |
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Joseph wrote:
<NOspam@no.spam> wrote in message
news:3plbf258v8vdd6qgoa50uj60i7e5j3trp9@4ax.com...
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:45:51 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
===>Since the "Father", exists only in the believer's mind,
As do all gods and other imaginary beings,
EVERYONE who prays is "talking to himself". -- L.
You are entitled to that belief if you wish. As for me, I DO believe
God exists, and Jesus is the Savior.
The Devil believes God exists,
===>and you believe "The Devil" exists.
Some kids never outgrow their belief in monsters under
the bed or their invisible friend. -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is notGod," |
01 Sep 2006 05:53:41 PM |
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wrote:
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:45:51 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
===>Since the "Father", exists only in the believer's mind,
As do all gods and other imaginary beings,
EVERYONE who prays is "talking to himself". -- L.
You are entitled to that belief if you wish. As for me, I DO believe
God exists, and Jesus is the Savior.
===>I did not say you did not believe.
I said it is in your mind.
You are an idol worshiper. -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is notGod," |
05 Sep 2006 04:37:38 PM |
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wrote:
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:45:51 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
===>Since the "Father", exists only in the believer's mind,
As do all gods and other imaginary beings,
EVERYONE who prays is "talking to himself". -- L.
You are entitled to that belief if you wish. As for me, I DO believe
God exists, and Jesus is the Savior.
===>Of course you do.
So do those others. -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: “Jesus is God the Creator,” versus those who say, “Jesus is not God,” |
28 Aug 2006 07:38:30 PM |
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On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:22:52 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
In the arguments of those who say “Jesus is God the Creator,” versus those
who say, “Jesus is not God,” I can agree with some of what both sides are
saying, but the difficulty in their understanding on both sides that
prevents them from getting acquainted with our Holy Creator, is that the
word "God" does not mean "Creator" in the Holy Scriptures.
Yes, it does. And the problem is summed up in one phrase:
"Time line"
Have you ever wondered why it is that both the "Trinity" and
the "non-Trinity" side both seem to be able to make what seems
to be valid arguments? It is because of that phrase above. :)
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
/
/
<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
\
\
O
"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
"Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific
work of any kind realises that over the entrance to
the gates of the temple of science are written the
words: Ye must have faith. It is a quality which the
scientist cannot dispense with." - Max Planck
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| User: "Joseph" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
28 Aug 2006 08:50:23 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <_-ananias917-_@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7137f25eefnm585d26japm01eg289r2j5j@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:22:52 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
In the arguments of those who say "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those
who say, "Jesus is not God," I can agree with some of what both sides are
saying, but the difficulty in their understanding on both sides that
prevents them from getting acquainted with our Holy Creator, is that the
word "God" does not mean "Creator" in the Holy Scriptures.
Yes, it does. And the problem is summed up in one phrase:
"Time line"
It is true that as time progressed the word "God' began to be used for the
Creator alone, like in Islam. The singular Arabic article and word "Allah"
is the singular article and word "HeElah" in Hebrew, which means "The God".
Few realize that St. Jerome mistranslated the Hebrew of Genesis into Latin
just prior to the rise of Mohamed. The Greeks used a singular word with a
class article for the plural Hebrew word Elohim, used like the class article
and singular word in the English phrase "The sheep all ate grass". Because
the Hebrew and the Greek was being mistranslated by the Romans into Latin
long before Jerome, the Christians named Gods and Lords became the center
attraction in the Lions dens of Rome.
Jerome was the second to mistranslate Genesis 1:1, the Hebrews that
translated Hebrew to Greek were the first. It says in Hebrew that the plural
Elohim finished the heavens and the earth, bawrah in Hebrew means "to
finish," not "to create," but they used the Greek word "epoisen, which means
"made," and the Latin word "creavit,' which means "created." The same Hebrew
word is translated "dispatch" here in Eze 23:47 "And the company shall stone
them with stones, and dispatch (finish) them with their swords; they shall
slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire."
You cannot "Create them with a sword," it is the word "finish."
Genesis 1:1 tells of the end from the beginning, those ancient men and
dinosaurs were finished off by the plural Elohim, verse two in some Hebrew
Texts and in Greek and in Latin is the singular word for God, but is Hebrew
and Greek is plural or a class everywhere else in Genesis 1, so in 1:2 the
singular Spirit of God refers to Jehovah alone rebuilding this heaven and
earth after resurrecting the plural Elohim. Jehovah as the Creator is used
in Genesis 2 where Hebrew and Greek uses Jehovah Elohim or the class
equivalent throughout the recreation of manlike that resulted in modern
mankind that have no evolutional link between them and the former manlike.
Love and Prayers
Joseph
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| User: "colp" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
28 Aug 2006 09:59:17 PM |
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Joseph wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-ananias917-_@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7137f25eefnm585d26japm01eg289r2j5j@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:22:52 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
In the arguments of those who say "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those
who say, "Jesus is not God," I can agree with some of what both sides are
saying, but the difficulty in their understanding on both sides that
prevents them from getting acquainted with our Holy Creator, is that the
word "God" does not mean "Creator" in the Holy Scriptures.
Yes, it does. And the problem is summed up in one phrase:
"Time line"
It is true that as time progressed the word "God' began to be used for the
Creator alone, like in Islam. The singular Arabic article and word "Allah"
is the singular article and word "HeElah" in Hebrew, which means "The God".
Few realize that St. Jerome mistranslated the Hebrew of Genesis into Latin
just prior to the rise of Mohamed. The Greeks used a singular word with a
class article for the plural Hebrew word Elohim, used like the class article
and singular word in the English phrase "The sheep all ate grass". Because
the Hebrew and the Greek was being mistranslated by the Romans into Latin
long before Jerome, the Christians named Gods and Lords became the center
attraction in the Lions dens of Rome.
Jerome was the second to mistranslate Genesis 1:1, the Hebrews that
translated Hebrew to Greek were the first. It says in Hebrew that the plural
Elohim finished the heavens and the earth, bawrah in Hebrew means "to
finish," not "to create," but they used the Greek word "epoisen, which means
"made," and the Latin word "creavit,' which means "created." The same Hebrew
word is translated "dispatch" here in Eze 23:47 "And the company shall stone
them with stones, and dispatch (finish) them with their swords; they shall
slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire."
You cannot "Create them with a sword," it is the word "finish."
Genesis 1:1 tells of the end from the beginning,
That is, the creation of verse one was a completed work.
It is common to equivocate the heaven and earth of verse one with the
firmament and dry land mentioned later in the chapter.
those ancient men and
dinosaurs were finished off by the plural Elohim,
The verse does not actually say that Elohim caused the the events of
the first part of verse two, only that the Spirit was there after the
event.
.
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| User: "Joseph" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
28 Aug 2006 10:15:51 PM |
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"colp" <colp@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message
news:1156820357.687342.179540@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Joseph wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-ananias917-_@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7137f25eefnm585d26japm01eg289r2j5j@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:22:52 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
Genesis 1:1 tells of the end from the beginning,
That is, the creation of verse one was a completed work.
It is common to equivocate the heaven and earth of verse one with the
firmament and dry land mentioned later in the chapter.
It is common to equivocate the heaven and earth of verse one with the
firmament and dry land mentioned later in the chapter, but the deciples
warned that the destruction of the former heaven and earth would be denied
by many.
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days
scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers
fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the
creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the
heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the
water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept
in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of
ungodly men.
Love and prayers
Joseph
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is notGod," |
29 Aug 2006 11:49:29 AM |
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Joseph wrote:
"colp" <colp@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message
news:1156820357.687342.179540@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Joseph wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-ananias917-_@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7137f25eefnm585d26japm01eg289r2j5j@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:22:52 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
Genesis 1:1 tells of the end from the beginning,
That is, the creation of verse one was a completed work.
It is common to equivocate the heaven and earth of verse one with the
firmament and dry land mentioned later in the chapter.
It is common to equivocate the heaven and earth of verse one with the
firmament and dry land mentioned later in the chapter, but the deciples
warned that the destruction of the former heaven and earth would be denied
by many.
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days
scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers
fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the
creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the
heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the
water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept
in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of
ungodly men.
===>The author of those words, attributed to "Peter", was just as
ignorant about the nature and history of this planet and the universe
as those who, in the 21st Century, still believe his words were the
"Word of God". -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "colp" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
29 Aug 2006 01:03:00 AM |
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Joseph wrote:
"colp" <colp@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message
news:1156820357.687342.179540@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Joseph wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-ananias917-_@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7137f25eefnm585d26japm01eg289r2j5j@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:22:52 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
Genesis 1:1 tells of the end from the beginning,
That is, the creation of verse one was a completed work.
It is common to equivocate the heaven and earth of verse one with the
firmament and dry land mentioned later in the chapter.
It is common to equivocate the heaven and earth of verse one with the
firmament and dry land mentioned later in the chapter, but the deciples
warned that the destruction of the former heaven and earth would be denied
by many.
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days
scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers
fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the
creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the
heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the
water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept
in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of
ungodly men.
And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith YHWH, I will
hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
Hosea 2:21
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is notGod," |
29 Aug 2006 11:46:46 AM |
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colp wrote:
Joseph wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-ananias917-_@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7137f25eefnm585d26japm01eg289r2j5j@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:22:52 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
In the arguments of those who say "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those
who say, "Jesus is not God," I can agree with some of what both sides are
saying, but the difficulty in their understanding on both sides that
prevents them from getting acquainted with our Holy Creator, is that the
word "God" does not mean "Creator" in the Holy Scriptures.
Yes, it does. And the problem is summed up in one phrase:
"Time line"
It is true that as time progressed the word "God' began to be used for the
Creator alone, like in Islam. The singular Arabic article and word "Allah"
is the singular article and word "HeElah" in Hebrew, which means "The God".
Few realize that St. Jerome mistranslated the Hebrew of Genesis into Latin
just prior to the rise of Mohamed. The Greeks used a singular word with a
class article for the plural Hebrew word Elohim, used like the class article
and singular word in the English phrase "The sheep all ate grass". Because
the Hebrew and the Greek was being mistranslated by the Romans into Latin
long before Jerome, the Christians named Gods and Lords became the center
attraction in the Lions dens of Rome.
Jerome was the second to mistranslate Genesis 1:1, the Hebrews that
translated Hebrew to Greek were the first. It says in Hebrew that the plural
Elohim finished the heavens and the earth, bawrah in Hebrew means "to
finish," not "to create," but they used the Greek word "epoisen, which means
"made," and the Latin word "creavit,' which means "created." The same Hebrew
word is translated "dispatch" here in Eze 23:47 "And the company shall stone
them with stones, and dispatch (finish) them with their swords; they shall
slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire."
You cannot "Create them with a sword," it is the word "finish."
Genesis 1:1 tells of the end from the beginning,
That is, the creation of verse one was a completed work.
===>Just for your continued education:
WRONG ANSWER.
Verses 1&2 are just an INTRODUCTORY STATEMENT,
describing what the writer imagined to have been the state of the universe
BEFORE the involvement of the ELOHIM.
"WHEN GOD BEGAN TO CREATE THE UNIVERSE"
(See the footnote in the Good News Bible).
The whole universe, as seen by the ancient writer, -- i.e.
the flat earth, covered by a solid vaulted sky dome, upon which
were affixed the sun, the moon, and all the little lights seen
in the night -- was shaped out of
the formless, watery mass the ELOHIM found already existing.
THIS is the picture presented by the ancient author.
Creationists, plagued with cognitive dissonance, make every
effort to read into these stories what little science they had learned in
school.
It is common to equivocate the heaven and earth of verse one with the
firmament and dry land mentioned later in the chapter.
===>Verses 1&2 simply describe what, in the imagination of that
writer, pre-existed WHEN THE ELOHIM BEGAN their work.
those ancient men and
dinosaurs were finished off by the plural Elohim,
The verse does not actually say that Elohim caused the the events of
the first part of verse two, only that the Spirit was there after the
event.
===>There is no "Spirit".
The verses says A WIND FROM (the) ELOHIM.
(See the JPS TANAKH).
Also, there is NOTHING about any "ancient men"
nor about dinosaurs. -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is notGod," - ABSURDITIES |
29 Aug 2006 11:30:56 AM |
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Joseph wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <_-ananias917-_@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7137f25eefnm585d26japm01eg289r2j5j@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:22:52 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
In the arguments of those who say "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those
who say, "Jesus is not God," I can agree with some of what both sides are
saying, but the difficulty in their understanding on both sides that
prevents them from getting acquainted with our Holy Creator, is that the
word "God" does not mean "Creator" in the Holy Scriptures.
Yes, it does. And the problem is summed up in one phrase:
"Time line"
It is true that as time progressed the word "God' began to be used for the
Creator alone, like in Islam. The singular Arabic article and word "Allah"
is the singular article and word "HeElah" in Hebrew, which means "The God".
Few realize that St. Jerome mistranslated the Hebrew of Genesis into Latin
just prior to the rise of Mohamed. The Greeks used a singular word with a
class article for the plural Hebrew word Elohim, used like the class article
and singular word in the English phrase "The sheep all ate grass". Because
the Hebrew and the Greek was being mistranslated by the Romans into Latin
long before Jerome, the Christians named Gods and Lords became the center
attraction in the Lions dens of Rome.
Jerome was the second to mistranslate Genesis 1:1, the Hebrews that
translated Hebrew to Greek were the first. It says in Hebrew that the plural
Elohim finished the heavens and the earth, bawrah in Hebrew means "to
finish," not "to create," but they used the Greek word "epoisen, which means
"made," and the Latin word "creavit,' which means "created." The same Hebrew
word is translated "dispatch" here in Eze 23:47 "And the company shall stone
them with stones, and dispatch (finish) them with their swords; they shall
slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire."
You cannot "Create them with a sword," it is the word "finish."
Genesis 1:1 tells of the end from the beginning, those ancient men and
dinosaurs were finished off by the plural Elohim,
===>This is ridiculous.
There is NOTHING about any "ancient men and dinosaurs".
You are mixing modern knowledge into an ancient fables, the writers
of which knew NOTHING about any "ancient men" or about dinosaurs.
verse two in some Hebrew
Texts and in Greek and in Latin is the singular word for God, but is Hebrew
and Greek is plural or a class everywhere else in Genesis 1, so in 1:2 the
singular Spirit of God refers to Jehovah alone rebuilding this heaven and
earth after resurrecting the plural Elohim.
===>Just for your continued education:
Up to this point you made some sense. However,
the word "ELOHIM" simply means "superior beings",
synonymous with today's "extraterrestrials" or "alien intelligence".
But the translation "Spirit of God" does NOT mean "Jehovah"
(a monstrous word created by ignorant Christians), nor YHWH,
who is just one of the ELOHIM according to Genesis 2-3.
It means "A WIND" from the ELOHIM. (See the JPS TANAKH).
Jehovah as the Creator is used
in Genesis 2 where Hebrew and Greek uses Jehovah Elohim
===>NOT "Jehovah" but YHWH ELOHIM, i.e. ONE OF THE
ELOHIM. (SEE: "one of us" in Gen. 3:22).
YHWH ELOHIM is depicted as a thoughtless, ignorant, vicious
and vindictive TINKERER who messed up and is later admitting he is
"sorry" he made those earth creatures.
BTW, the name "YHWH" or "YAHU" is taken from the ancient
Semitic lore, in which he is one of the sons of "EL", i.e. one of
the family of ELOHIM aliens.
The whole thing is an ancient form of fiction, not unlike today's
sci-fi literature. It is incredible and absurd how anyone can believe
they are depicting real events.
or the class
equivalent throughout the recreation of manlike that resulted in modern
mankind that have no evolutional link between them and the former manlike.
===>That is not only not biblical, it is RIDICULOUS!
There is a proven genetic link between modern humans and
all higher anthropoid apes, as well as paleontological link between
these and earlier hominids.
-- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
28 Aug 2006 10:22:23 PM |
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On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:50:23 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
"Pastor Dave" <_-ananias917-_@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7137f25eefnm585d26japm01eg289r2j5j@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:22:52 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
In the arguments of those who say "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those
who say, "Jesus is not God," I can agree with some of what both sides are
saying, but the difficulty in their understanding on both sides that
prevents them from getting acquainted with our Holy Creator, is that the
word "God" does not mean "Creator" in the Holy Scriptures.
Yes, it does. And the problem is summed up in one phrase:
"Time line"
It is true that as time progressed the word "God' began to be used for the
Creator alone, like in Islam. The singular Arabic article and word "Allah"
is the singular article and word "HeElah" in Hebrew, which means "The God".
Few realize that St. Jerome mistranslated the Hebrew of Genesis into Latin
just prior to the rise of Mohamed. The Greeks used a singular word with a
class article for the plural Hebrew word Elohim, used like the class article
and singular word in the English phrase "The sheep all ate grass". Because
the Hebrew and the Greek was being mistranslated by the Romans into Latin
long before Jerome, the Christians named Gods and Lords became the center
attraction in the Lions dens of Rome.
Jerome was the second to mistranslate Genesis 1:1, the Hebrews that
translated Hebrew to Greek were the first. It says in Hebrew that the plural
Elohim finished the heavens and the earth, bawrah in Hebrew means "to
finish," not "to create," but they used the Greek word "epoisen, which means
"made," and the Latin word "creavit,' which means "created." The same Hebrew
word is translated "dispatch" here in Eze 23:47 "And the company shall stone
them with stones, and dispatch (finish) them with their swords; they shall
slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire."
You cannot "Create them with a sword," it is the word "finish."
Genesis 1:1 tells of the end from the beginning, those ancient men and
dinosaurs were finished off by the plural Elohim, verse two in some Hebrew
Texts and in Greek and in Latin is the singular word for God, but is Hebrew
and Greek is plural or a class everywhere else in Genesis 1, so in 1:2 the
singular Spirit of God refers to Jehovah alone rebuilding this heaven and
earth after resurrecting the plural Elohim. Jehovah as the Creator is used
in Genesis 2 where Hebrew and Greek uses Jehovah Elohim or the class
equivalent throughout the recreation of manlike that resulted in modern
mankind that have no evolutional link between them and the former manlike.
I'm sorry, but you are misunderstanding the word "Elohim"
and, no offense, you are so busy focusing on that one word,
that you are failing to see that it speaks of one God. This
word is used in more than one sense. I.e., both plural and
singular. For example, in the following...
"Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush..."
- Exodus 3:4
....it acts as a singular noun. Thus, the suffix "im", while
normally plural, does not always denote a plural "sense".
So those that argue for the idea of plurality in this word
and claim it automatically means the plural here, do so
from ignorance of the language, but seem to think that
because they read a web page, they are now experts. (:
And macroevolution is not reality. While it is called "science",
there is no scientific evidence for it. Science *requires* one
of two things...
1) *Direct* observation.
2) Repeatable tests that confirm an idea.
Macroevolution offers neither of these. Microevolution does,
but macroevolution does not.
With all due respect, it sounds to me as if your concern is how
to make the Bible line up with what atheistic evolutionists say
is reality. Maybe I am wrong about that. I don;t really know
you, so please forgive me if I have made an incorrect, "snap
judgment".
But if that is the case, then my question is, if they change
their minds tomorrow, will you then be seeking to make the Bible
line up with the next idea?
Point being, since when is it proper to worry about what men say
and to try to make God wrap Himself around man's ideas?
Especially when they change so often.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
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"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
The Last Days were in the first century:
Romans 13:11-2
11) And that, knowing the time, that NOW
it is high time to awake out of sleep:
for NOW is our salvation nearer than when
we believed.
12) The night is far spent, the day is
AT HAND: let us therefore cast off the
works of darkness, and let us put on
the armor of light.
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| User: "Joseph" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
28 Aug 2006 10:53:07 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <_-ananias917-_@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:upb7f21cvck387v2kkss6fefkjsie5q0at@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:50:23 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
"Pastor Dave" <_-ananias917-_@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7137f25eefnm585d26japm01eg289r2j5j@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:22:52 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
In the arguments of those who say "Jesus is God the Creator," versus
those
who say, "Jesus is not God," I can agree with some of what both sides
are
saying, but the difficulty in their understanding on both sides that
prevents them from getting acquainted with our Holy Creator, is that the
word "God" does not mean "Creator" in the Holy Scriptures.
Yes, it does. And the problem is summed up in one phrase:
"Time line"
It is true that as time progressed the word "God' began to be used for the
Creator alone, like in Islam. The singular Arabic article and word "Allah"
is the singular article and word "HeElah" in Hebrew, which means "The
God".
Few realize that St. Jerome mistranslated the Hebrew of Genesis into Latin
just prior to the rise of Mohamed. The Greeks used a singular word with a
class article for the plural Hebrew word Elohim, used like the class
article
and singular word in the English phrase "The sheep all ate grass". Because
the Hebrew and the Greek was being mistranslated by the Romans into Latin
long before Jerome, the Christians named Gods and Lords became the center
attraction in the Lions dens of Rome.
Jerome was the second to mistranslate Genesis 1:1, the Hebrews that
translated Hebrew to Greek were the first. It says in Hebrew that the
plural
Elohim finished the heavens and the earth, bawrah in Hebrew means "to
finish," not "to create," but they used the Greek word "epoisen, which
means
"made," and the Latin word "creavit,' which means "created." The same
Hebrew
word is translated "dispatch" here in Eze 23:47 "And the company shall
stone
them with stones, and dispatch (finish) them with their swords; they shall
slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire."
You cannot "Create them with a sword," it is the word "finish."
Genesis 1:1 tells of the end from the beginning, those ancient men and
dinosaurs were finished off by the plural Elohim, verse two in some Hebrew
Texts and in Greek and in Latin is the singular word for God, but is
Hebrew
and Greek is plural or a class everywhere else in Genesis 1, so in 1:2 the
singular Spirit of God refers to Jehovah alone rebuilding this heaven and
earth after resurrecting the plural Elohim. Jehovah as the Creator is used
in Genesis 2 where Hebrew and Greek uses Jehovah Elohim or the class
equivalent throughout the recreation of manlike that resulted in modern
mankind that have no evolutional link between them and the former manlike.
I'm sorry, but you are misunderstanding the word "Elohim"
and, no offense, you are so busy focusing on that one word,
that you are failing to see that it speaks of one God. This
word is used in more than one sense. I.e., both plural and
singular. For example, in the following...
"Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush..."
- Exodus 3:4
...it acts as a singular noun. Thus, the suffix "im", while
normally plural, does not always denote a plural "sense".
So those that argue for the idea of plurality in this word
and claim it automatically means the plural here, do so
from ignorance of the language, but seem to think that
because they read a web page, they are now experts. (:
Ex 3:2 And the angel of Jehovah appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of
the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire,
and the bush was not consumed.
The Angel here was named Elohim because Jehovah was in the Angel, that is
why Elohim is plural there, not singular.
Love and prayers
Joseph
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| User: "Joseph" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
28 Aug 2006 11:15:11 PM |
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<Joseph> wrote in message
news:TbednSIT2OG8J27ZnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Pastor Dave" <_-ananias917-_@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:upb7f21cvck387v2kkss6fefkjsie5q0at@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:50:23 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
"Pastor Dave" <_-ananias917-_@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7137f25eefnm585d26japm01eg289r2j5j@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:22:52 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
This
word is used in more than one sense. I.e., both plural and
singular. For example, in the following...
"Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush..."
- Exodus 3:4
...it acts as a singular noun. Thus, the suffix "im", while
normally plural, does not always denote a plural "sense".
So those that argue for the idea of plurality in this word
and claim it automatically means the plural here, do so
from ignorance of the language, but seem to think that
because they read a web page, they are now experts. (:
Ex 3:2 And the angel of Jehovah appeared unto him in a flame of fire out
of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with
fire, and the bush was not consumed.
The Angel here was named Elohim because Jehovah was in the Angel, that is
why Elohim is plural there, not singular.
Love and prayers
Joseph
Moses is named the plural word Elohim because Jehovah was in Moses. The
plural word Elohim denotes a singular class, such as Godship, basically a
God inside a God working together, like invisible Jehovah inside his visible
Angel. Elohim is used of the Devil working inside other Devils and his
people also. Elohim is only rightly translated plural "Gods" when it has a
Hebrew article, otherwise Elohim is always plural denoting a singular class,
Godship.
Love and prayers
Joseph
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is not God," |
29 Aug 2006 09:48:52 AM |
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On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:53:07 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
I'm sorry, but you are misunderstanding the word "Elohim"
and, no offense, you are so busy focusing on that one word,
that you are failing to see that it speaks of one God. This
word is used in more than one sense. I.e., both plural and
singular. For example, in the following...
"Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush..."
- Exodus 3:4
...it acts as a singular noun. Thus, the suffix "im", while
normally plural, does not always denote a plural "sense".
So those that argue for the idea of plurality in this word
and claim it automatically means the plural here, do so
from ignorance of the language, but seem to think that
because they read a web page, they are now experts. (:
Ex 3:2 And the angel of Jehovah appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of
the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire,
and the bush was not consumed.
The Angel here was named Elohim because Jehovah was in the Angel, that is
why Elohim is plural there, not singular.
According to you. But if what you're going for is a statement
of the Trinity, then I can see where you're going and the
argument has some merit.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
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<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
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O
"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
"If then, these teachings [of a false prophet]
contradict the chief doctrine and article of Christ,
we should accord them neither with attention nor
acceptance though it were to snow miracles daily."
- Martin Luther
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those who say, "Jesus is notGod," |
29 Aug 2006 11:56:50 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:50:23 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
"Pastor Dave" <_-ananias917-_@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7137f25eefnm585d26japm01eg289r2j5j@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:22:52 -0500, <Joseph> spake thusly:
In the arguments of those who say "Jesus is God the Creator," versus those
who say, "Jesus is not God," I can agree with some of what both sides are
saying, but the difficulty in their understanding on both sides that
prevents them from getting acquainted with our Holy Creator, is that the
word "God" does not mean "Creator" in the Holy Scriptures.
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