| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Disciple Gaius" |
| Date: |
21 Mar 2007 01:50:56 PM |
| Object: |
Jesus says: The Father and I are one |
John 10:30 NRSV "The Father and I are one."
Alfred Marshall literal Greek: "I and the Father one we are"
Does Jesus simply mean he and the Father are one in mind, action or
purpose, as in John 17:21ff; or does he mean much more: a unity, of
one essence, in other words God? Does Jesus claim equalty with God the
Father, claiming to be God the Son? Two Persons yet one God? I
caution, DO NOT be drawn into the quagmire of the varied views of the
Greek grammar about "one" in this passage. The *immediate context* is
sufficient to decide the question of Jesus' intent. So, here is the
context leading up to Jesus' claim to be one with the Father.
"The Jews therefore came round about him, and said unto him, How long
dost thou hold us in suspense? If thou art the Christ, tell us
plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the
works that I do in my Father’s name, these bear witness of me. But ye
believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice,
and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal
life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of
my hand. My Father, who hath given [them] unto me, is greater than
all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand. I
and the Father are one." (John 10:24-30 ASV)
Notice the increasing progression, the buildup in this passage:
1. Jesus is asked about his identity. Is he the Christ, the Messiah?
2. Jesus accuses them of unbelief, saying he told them.
3. Jesus' works attest to his identity and they disbelieve those.
4. They believe not because they are not of His sheep, the elect.
5. Jesus' sheep hear and they follow. Jesus knows them, giving life.
6. Jesus promises that His sheep will *never* perish, showing power.
7. No one can snatch them out of Jesus' hand implying great power.
8. Father is greater than all, none can snatch them out of His hand.
9. Jesus then states: "I and the Father are one"!
Notice the buildup, the progression. In power Jesus is compared to God
as to the safety of His sheep, the elect. Then after saying "My
Father...is greater than all" he identifies himself as one with the
Father. If Jesus only means he is a created being this buildup in the
passage certainly is anticlimatic! Of course Jesus is identifying
himself with the Father as God as any fair reading shows.
This is only Phase I of the proof of this passage. The next post "p2"
shows more surely the claim Jesus made of being God Almighty.
Gaius
.
|
|
| User: "Zadok" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus says: The Father and I are one |
21 Mar 2007 03:39:22 PM |
|
|
"Disciple Gaius" <once more showing his ignorance > wrote in message ...
John 10:30 NRSV "The Father and I are one."
Alfred Marshall literal Greek: "I and the Father one we are"
In the four Gospels, Jesus refers to himself as the Son of man 65 times, and
only in John, does Jesus call himself the Son of God.
But even in John, Jesus calls himself the Son of man 10 times to 4 for Son
of God.
Was Jesus so dumb, that he did not this verse from the OT??
Numbers 23: 19 -
19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?
THE BIBLE TELLING YOU THAT GOD IS NOT A SON OF MAN!!
It does not get any simpler!!
God is not a SON OF MAN!!
Now you can play word games with Gaius all night, or you can read the simple
words, and know the TRUTH!!
Smile.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jude # Alexander" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus says: The Father and I are one |
21 Mar 2007 05:26:42 PM |
|
|
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:_JgMh.200$x9.131@edtnps89...
"Disciple Gaius" <once more showing his ignorance > wrote in message ...
John 10:30 NRSV "The Father and I are one."
Alfred Marshall literal Greek: "I and the Father one we are"
In the four Gospels, Jesus refers to himself as the Son of man 65 times,
and
only in John, does Jesus call himself the Son of God.
But even in John, Jesus calls himself the Son of man 10 times to 4 for Son
of God.
Was Jesus so dumb, that he did not this verse from the OT??
Numbers 23: 19 -
19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?
THE BIBLE TELLING YOU THAT GOD IS NOT A SON OF MAN!!
It does not get any simpler!!
God is not a SON OF MAN!!
Now you can play word games with Gaius all night, or you can read the
simple
words, and know the TRUTH!!
What's so hard for them is that they accept the false doctrine of inerrancy.
Therefore, they can't understand why John says that Jesus is immortal. Jesus
was a specially made man, the 2nd Adam, and was not God as how can God
cannot die. How does God split Himself up into two beings or three beings?
God raised Jesus from the dead. In the gospels (other than John's "gospel")
Jesus NEVER claims to be God. The dogma of trinity came from the refusal of
early Christians to accept inerrancy, that some of the apostles of Jesus
could write something incorrectly. Yet, the WHOLE of the three gospels show
how they CONSTANTLY made perception problems and were common ordinary men
with common ordinary mistakes. ALL OF A SUDDEN, after Jesus died, we're
supposed to believe them only capable of perfect perception...
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus says: The Father and I are one |
21 Mar 2007 06:56:11 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:26:42 -0500, "Jude # Alexander"
<Jude@petitechenier.usa> wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:_JgMh.200$x9.131@edtnps89...
"Disciple Gaius" <once more showing his ignorance > wrote in message ...
John 10:30 NRSV "The Father and I are one."
Alfred Marshall literal Greek: "I and the Father one we are"
In the four Gospels, Jesus refers to himself as the Son of man 65 times,
and
only in John, does Jesus call himself the Son of God.
But even in John, Jesus calls himself the Son of man 10 times to 4 for Son
of God.
Was Jesus so dumb, that he did not this verse from the OT??
Numbers 23: 19 -
19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?
THE BIBLE TELLING YOU THAT GOD IS NOT A SON OF MAN!!
It does not get any simpler!!
God is not a SON OF MAN!!
Now you can play word games with Gaius all night, or you can read the
simple
words, and know the TRUTH!!
What's so hard for them is that they accept the false doctrine of inerrancy.
Therefore, they can't understand why John says that Jesus is immortal. Jesus
was a specially made man, the 2nd Adam, and was not God as how can God
cannot die.
Phil 2:5-7
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being
in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant,
and coming in the likeness
NKJV
Col 2:8-9
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit,
according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles
of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the
fullness of the Godhead bodily;
NKJV
"All the fullness of the Godhead" = "Theotace," = "The STATE OF BEING
GOD."
How does God split Himself up into two beings or three beings?
Since God can create a zillion human beings and keep track of the
number of hairs on each head, I have no trouble with that. Neither to
the rest of us Christians.
God raised Jesus from the dead. In the gospels (other than John's "gospel")
Jesus NEVER claims to be God. The dogma of trinity came from the refusal of
early Christians to accept inerrancy, that some of the apostles of Jesus
could write something incorrectly. Yet, the WHOLE of the three gospels show
how they CONSTANTLY made perception problems and were common ordinary men
with common ordinary mistakes. ALL OF A SUDDEN, after Jesus died, we're
supposed to believe them only capable of perfect perception...
Nice theory. Unfortunately it is nothing more than a baseless theory.
I suppose you DON'T LIKE the Gospel of John?
in Christ Jesus,
Checker
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus says: The Father and I are one |
21 Mar 2007 06:51:39 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:39:22 GMT, "Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca>
wrote:
"Disciple Gaius" <once more showing his ignorance > wrote in message ...
John 10:30 NRSV "The Father and I are one."
Alfred Marshall literal Greek: "I and the Father one we are"
In the four Gospels, Jesus refers to himself as the Son of man 65 times, and
only in John, does Jesus call himself the Son of God.
But even in John, Jesus calls himself the Son of man 10 times to 4 for Son
of God.
Was Jesus so dumb, that he did not this verse from the OT??
Numbers 23: 19 -
19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?
THE BIBLE TELLING YOU THAT GOD IS NOT A SON OF MAN!!
It does not get any simpler!!
God is not a SON OF MAN!!
Now you can play word games with Gaius all night, or you can read the simple
words, and know the TRUTH!!
Col 2:8-10
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit,
according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles
of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the
fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is
the head of all principality and power.
NKJV
The Greek word translated "all the fullness of the Godhead" is
"Theotes," which is literally "THE STATE OF BEING GOD."
Perhaps you should rethink your position.
Phil 2:5-7
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being
in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant,
and coming in the likeness
NKJV
God's Son BECAME the son of man (AFTER the Numbers passage was already
written) by TAKING THE FORM OF THE BONDSERVANT.
Jesus, "the state of being GOD," took on the form of "the son of man."
This AFTER Numbers had already been written.
in Christ Jesus,
checker
.
|
|
|
| User: "Zadok" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus says: The Father and I are one |
21 Mar 2007 07:22:19 PM |
|
|
<checker> wrote in message
Col 2:8-10
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit,
according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles
of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the
fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is
the head of all principality and power.
NKJV
Listen clown you can quote Saulus (Paul) the apostate all night long!!
BUT!! Paul never knew Jesus, never met Jesus and never studied with Jesus!!
His only contact with Jesus was a sunstroke induced hallucination on the
Damascus Road.
If you are going to quote about Jesus to me, use a REAL APOSTLE!!
Phil 2:5-7
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being
in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant,
and coming in the likeness
NKJV
More of the apostate??
How about you come back with something by an apostle who actually knew
Jesus??
Smile.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus says: The Father and I are one |
21 Mar 2007 08:09:10 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:22:19 GMT, "Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca>
wrote:
<checker> wrote in message
Col 2:8-10
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit,
according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles
of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the
fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is
the head of all principality and power.
NKJV
Listen clown you can quote Saulus (Paul) the apostate all night long!!
BUT!! Paul never knew Jesus, never met Jesus and never studied with Jesus!!
His only contact with Jesus was a sunstroke induced hallucination on the
Damascus Road.
If you are going to quote about Jesus to me, use a REAL APOSTLE!!
I did use a REAL APOSTLE. It is the false prophet (YOU) I don't pay
much ataention to.
Phil 2:5-7
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being
in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant,
and coming in the likeness
NKJV
More of the apostate??
How about you come back with something by an apostle who actually knew
Jesus??
I did. It is the false prophet (YOU) who doesn't know Jesus whom I
laugh at!
in Chrsit Jesus,
Checker
.
|
|
|
| User: "Zadok" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus says: The Father and I are one |
21 Mar 2007 09:35:47 PM |
|
|
<checker@flapper.com> wrote in message ...
Listen clown you can quote Saulus (Paul) the apostate all night long!!
BUT!! Paul never knew Jesus, never met Jesus and never studied with
Jesus!!
His only contact with Jesus was a sunstroke induced hallucination on the
Damascus Road.
If you are going to quote about Jesus to me, use a REAL APOSTLE!!
I did use a REAL APOSTLE. It is the false prophet (YOU) I don't pay
much ataention to.
Nor hard to see why you are checker @ flapper.
You flap those lips, but you say nothing!!
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Sam Taylor" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus says: The Father and I are one |
17 Apr 2007 02:53:58 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:39:22 GMT, "Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca>
wrote:
"Disciple Gaius" <once more showing his ignorance > wrote in message ...
John 10:30 NRSV "The Father and I are one."
Alfred Marshall literal Greek: "I and the Father one we are"
In the four Gospels, Jesus refers to himself as the Son of man 65 times, and
only in John, does Jesus call himself the Son of God.
But even in John, Jesus calls himself the Son of man 10 times to 4 for Son
of God.
Was Jesus so dumb, that he did not this verse from the OT??
Numbers 23: 19 -
19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?
THE BIBLE TELLING YOU THAT GOD IS NOT A SON OF MAN!!
It does not get any simpler!!
God is not a SON OF MAN!!
He forgets when He (Jesus) says His father is Greater than He (Jesus)
is
such is a statement of Inequality.
Could He mean Complete, with Life in himself, as was the first adam,
before He was Split in have and He became a them?
Male and female Created He (GOD) Him
then the next reference
Male and female created He (GOD) them.
Now you can play word games with Gaius all night, or you can read the simple
words, and know the TRUTH!!
Smile.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus says: The Father and I are one |
22 Mar 2007 12:17:03 AM |
|
|
Disciple Gaius wrote:
John 10:30 NRSV "The Father and I are one."
Alfred Marshall literal Greek: "I and the Father one we are"
You have no more idea than a fly on the wall
what anyone two thousand plus years ago was supposed to have said.
IDIOT
all you quote are 'claim's by brainwashed religionists like yourself
When i read distorted false claims such as yours
as an ordinary human being i get hopping mad.
Does Jesus simply mean he and the Father are one in mind, action or
purpose, as in John 17:21ff; or does he mean much more: a unity, of
one essence, in other words God? Does Jesus claim equalty with God the
Father, claiming to be God the Son? Two Persons yet one God? I
caution, DO NOT be drawn into the quagmire of the varied views of the
Greek grammar about "one" in this passage. The *immediate context* is
sufficient to decide the question of Jesus' intent. So, here is the
context leading up to Jesus' claim to be one with the Father.
"The Jews therefore came round about him, and said unto him, How long
dost thou hold us in suspense? If thou art the Christ, tell us
plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the
works that I do in my Father£s name, these bear witness of me. But ye
believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice,
and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal
life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of
my hand. My Father, who hath given [them] unto me, is greater than
all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father£s hand. I
and the Father are one." (John 10:24-30 ASV)
Notice the increasing progression, the buildup in this passage:
1. Jesus is asked about his identity. Is he the Christ, the Messiah?
2. Jesus accuses them of unbelief, saying he told them.
3. Jesus' works attest to his identity and they disbelieve those.
4. They believe not because they are not of His sheep, the elect.
5. Jesus' sheep hear and they follow. Jesus knows them, giving life.
6. Jesus promises that His sheep will *never* perish, showing power.
7. No one can snatch them out of Jesus' hand implying great power.
8. Father is greater than all, none can snatch them out of His hand.
9. Jesus then states: "I and the Father are one"!
Notice the buildup, the progression. In power Jesus is compared to God
as to the safety of His sheep, the elect. Then after saying "My
Father...is greater than all" he identifies himself as one with the
Father. If Jesus only means he is a created being this buildup in the
passage certainly is anticlimatic! Of course Jesus is identifying
himself with the Father as God as any fair reading shows.
This is only Phase I of the proof of this passage. The next post "p2"
shows more surely the claim Jesus made of being God Almighty.
Gaius
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Phlogeus" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus says: The Father and I are one |
21 Mar 2007 09:18:50 PM |
|
|
In article <46017e8e.21163942@news.east.cox.net>, wrote:
John 10:30 NRSV "The Father and I are one."
Alfred Marshall literal Greek: "I and the Father one we are"
Does Jesus simply mean he and the Father are one in mind, action or
purpose, as in John 17:21ff; or does he mean much more: a unity, of
one essence, in other words God? Does Jesus claim equalty with God the
Father, claiming to be God the Son? Two Persons yet one God?
What it means is that the writer of John was a fraud using the name of the
disiple to validate a theology Jesus NEVER endorsed and to put words into
Jesuses mouth that he never spoke
One of the great problems of the brand of Christianity that came to be
dominant - Johannine Paulism - is that it is based on the writings and
teachings of TWO frauds.
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
Jesus says: The Father and I are one, p3
Jesus says: The Father and I are one, p2
Holy Spirit illustrates how Jesus and the Father are one
Jesus was not born on 25 December- Are Christians are cheating themself and their Childrens?
Re: Holy Jesus Man! - The antiChrist revealed - Holy Jesus Man! - Bushite GIs are enemies of Freedom for America, because they, as the Satanic, refuse to defend US, The People. Shirley, bin Laden would be sided with the fundamentalist Shiites, befo
Re: Prayers to Mary, mother of Jesus, are really prayers to Satan... Jer. 7:18
Are we Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?
Re: Not all who believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God are going to heaven; quit sinning.
| How are you celebrating the death of jesus?
Prayers to Mary, mother of Jesus, are really prayers to Satan... Jer. 7:18
Re: The Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, Jesus's Ressurection - Why Are Christians So Enthralled With Fairy Tales?
for all who are faithful in Jesus Christ
But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus...1Co 1:30
Re: Are you a "trinitarian" or "Jesus Only"??????????
YOU ARE NOT CHILDREN OF ISRAEL SO WHY FOLLOW JESUS?
|
|
|
