Religions > Bible > JOHN 14:12 - HEY CARL OR DUKE- ANY TRUE BELIEVER CHRISTIAN CAN DO JESUS'S MAGIC TRICKS
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" |
| Date: |
16 Dec 2007 01:00:03 PM |
| Object: |
JOHN 14:12 - HEY CARL OR DUKE- ANY TRUE BELIEVER CHRISTIAN CAN DO JESUS'S MAGIC TRICKS |
from evilbible.com
okay carl and duke, get on it, I'd like to see you TRUE BELIEVERS walking on
water, I'll even pay for a boat to take you to the middle of the lake or the
ocean and drop you off
John 14
12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been
doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the
Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may
bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I
will do it.
So, If you continue to insist I believe in Jesus, it is only fair I may ask
of you to show just how strong your faith is. After all, you would be my
"mentor" in Christ. I'm not a believer as of yet, but surely you are.
Would you mind perhaps resurrecting a dead relative or walking on water?
.
|
|
| User: "Bill M" |
|
| Title: Re: JOHN 14:12 - HEY CARL OR DUKE- ANY TRUE BELIEVER CHRISTIAN CAN DO JESUS'S MAGIC TRICKS |
16 Dec 2007 08:04:21 AM |
|
|
A good challenge! Where are the takers???
"SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" <killgod@killgod.com> wrote in message
news:13mate4sc0l96f4@corp.supernews.com...
from evilbible.com
okay carl and duke, get on it, I'd like to see you TRUE BELIEVERS walking
on water, I'll even pay for a boat to take you to the middle of the lake
or the ocean and drop you off
John 14
12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have
been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going
to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the
Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my
name, and I will do it.
So, If you continue to insist I believe in Jesus, it is only fair I may
ask of you to show just how strong your faith is. After all, you would be
my "mentor" in Christ. I'm not a believer as of yet, but surely you are.
Would you mind perhaps resurrecting a dead relative or walking on water?
.
|
|
|
| User: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" |
|
| Title: Re: JOHN 14:12 - HEY CARL OR DUKE- ANY TRUE BELIEVER CHRISTIAN CAN DO JESUS'S MAGIC TRICKS |
16 Dec 2007 01:13:21 PM |
|
|
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:lFe9j.40897$L%6.13995@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
A good challenge! Where are the takers???
I'm expecting them to show up any minute now, yup, any minute now.
you would think that all of these TRUE BELIEVERS would be lining up to show
the rest of us the FAITH they have in their ALL-POWERFUL god, wouldn't you?
"SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" <killgod@killgod.com> wrote in message
news:13mate4sc0l96f4@corp.supernews.com...
from evilbible.com
okay carl and duke, get on it, I'd like to see you TRUE BELIEVERS walking
on water, I'll even pay for a boat to take you to the middle of the lake
or the ocean and drop you off
John 14
12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have
been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going
to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the
Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my
name, and I will do it.
So, If you continue to insist I believe in Jesus, it is only fair I may
ask of you to show just how strong your faith is. After all, you would be
my "mentor" in Christ. I'm not a believer as of yet, but surely you are.
Would you mind perhaps resurrecting a dead relative or walking on water?
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: JOHN 14:12 - HEY CARL OR DUKE- ANY TRUE BELIEVER CHRISTIAN CAN DOJESUS'S MAGIC TRICKS |
16 Dec 2007 01:16:45 PM |
|
|
On Dec 16, 2:00 pm, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" <kill...@killgod.com>
wrote:
from evilbible.com
okay carl and duke, get on it, I'd like to see you TRUE BELIEVERS walking on
water, I'll even pay for a boat to take you to the middle of the lake or the
ocean and drop you off
John 14
12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been
doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the
Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may
bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I
will do it.
So, If you continue to insist I believe in Jesus, it is only fair I may ask
of you to show just how strong your faith is. After all, you would be my
"mentor" in Christ. I'm not a believer as of yet, but surely you are.
Would you mind perhaps resurrecting a dead relative or walking on water?
Ps 14:1; 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God ." (NIV)
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill M" |
|
| Title: Re: JOHN 14:12 - HEY CARL OR DUKE- ANY TRUE BELIEVER CHRISTIAN CAN DO JESUS'S MAGIC TRICKS |
16 Dec 2007 01:09:16 PM |
|
|
<saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:90d2f7bd-91e3-40fb-9cca-92984e65fca1@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 16, 2:00 pm, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" <kill...@killgod.com>
wrote:
from evilbible.com
okay carl and duke, get on it, I'd like to see you TRUE BELIEVERS walking
on
water, I'll even pay for a boat to take you to the middle of the lake or
the
ocean and drop you off
John 14
12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have
been
doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to
the
Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may
bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and
I
will do it.
So, If you continue to insist I believe in Jesus, it is only fair I may
ask
of you to show just how strong your faith is. After all, you would be my
"mentor" in Christ. I'm not a believer as of yet, but surely you are.
Would you mind perhaps resurrecting a dead relative or walking on water?
Ps 14:1; 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God ." (NIV)
The real fools claim without any objective verifiable evidence that we
should follow their imaginary god!
Sure follow him right down the rat hole!
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Carl" |
|
| Title: Re: JOHN 14:12 - HEY CARL OR DUKE- ANY TRUE BELIEVER CHRISTIAN CAN DO JESUS'S MAGIC TRICKS |
26 Dec 2007 11:22:17 PM |
|
|
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:c7j9j.41088$L%6.158@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
<saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:90d2f7bd-91e3-40fb-9cca-92984e65fca1@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 16, 2:00 pm, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" <kill...@killgod.com>
wrote:
from evilbible.com
okay carl and duke, get on it, I'd like to see you TRUE BELIEVERS
walking on
water, I'll even pay for a boat to take you to the middle of the lake or
the
ocean and drop you off
John 14
12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have
been
doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to
the
Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may
bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and
I
will do it.
So, If you continue to insist I believe in Jesus, it is only fair I may
ask
of you to show just how strong your faith is. After all, you would be my
"mentor" in Christ. I'm not a believer as of yet, but surely you are.
Would you mind perhaps resurrecting a dead relative or walking on water?
Ps 14:1; 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God ." (NIV)
The real fools claim without any objective verifiable evidence that we
should follow their imaginary god!
Sure follow him right down the rat hole!
Ps 14:1; 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God ." (NIV)
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
|
|
|
| User: "rogue" |
|
| Title: Re: JOHN 14:12 - HEY CARL OR DUKE- ANY TRUE BELIEVER CHRISTIAN CAN DOJESUS'S MAGIC TRICKS |
27 Dec 2007 04:03:04 AM |
|
|
On Dec 27, 9:22 am, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
"Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:c7j9j.41088$L%6.158@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
<sai...@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:90d2f7bd-91e3-40fb-9cca-92984e65fca1@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 16, 2:00 pm, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" <kill...@killgod.com>
wrote:
from evilbible.com
okay carl and duke, get on it, I'd like to see you TRUE BELIEVERS
walking on
water, I'll even pay for a boat to take you to the middle of the lake or
the
ocean and drop you off
John 14
12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have
been
doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to
the
Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may
bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and
I
will do it.
So, If you continue to insist I believe in Jesus, it is only fair I may
ask
of you to show just how strong your faith is. After all, you would be my
"mentor" in Christ. I'm not a believer as of yet, but surely you are.
Would you mind perhaps resurrecting a dead relative or walking on water?
Ps 14:1; 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God ." (NIV)
The real fools claim without any objective verifiable evidence that we
should follow their imaginary god!
Sure follow him right down the rat hole!
CARL
Prov 6:16-17
There are six things the Lord hates...a lying tongue... (NIV)
JERRY
Then you can count on going straight to hell, Carl, for lying about
needing to believe in the Trinity to be saved when the Bible says no
such thing.
CARL
Ps 14:1; 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God ." (NIV)
JERRY
Yep, we obviously don't have a clue, do we, Carl? I mean, it's
obvious we're not smart like you and claim that you have to believe
in
the Trinity to be saved, despite the fact that there isn't a single
verse in the bible that supports that claim.
And actually, you don't have to prove or disprove the existence of
God. The burden of proof of God's existence is on the theist anyway,
since they are claiming the supernatural.
What CAN be proven is the factual accuracy of the bible. If the
bible
fails to be historically accurate, it's very likely the bible isn't
true, correct? At least, on history it's not true if you can prove
it's not historically accurate.
And if the bible claims prophecies that obviously could be proven to
have not happened, then the bible would fail on prophecy, correct? I
mean, that's another obvious given.
Finally, if you can show that the different books of the bible
contradict each other when discussing the same event, that would be
pretty accurate that the bible is contradictory, correct?
Now, if the bible fails to be historically accurate, fails on
prophecy
and contradicts itself, that would also be a good indicator that
either the God of the bible didn't exist, or that he lacks the power
to protect his word, or that he doesn't really give a rat's ***** about
mankind at all, would that be a correct conclusion, Carl?
We already know from 1 Samuel 15 that the bible contradicts itself in
the same chapter, where we both see that God "repents" making Saul
king and later in the same chapter says that God never repents.
We also know from 1 Samuel 15 that God isn't omniscient, since he
repents making Saul king, and if he were really omniscient to the
level claimed, that he sees all, past, present and future and that he
knows the falling of the sparrow, he would have already known when he
made Saul king that Saul would disobey him later, therefore why
repent
when he already knew it would happen when he appointed Saul?
We know from the failure of the destruction of the island city of
Tyre
that the prophecy about the destruction of Tyre failed because the
description of the coming devastation doesn't match up to what
happened (Like, Nebs failed to take the city at all, and three
chapters later even Ezekiel admits that Nebs failed and the prophecy
didn't happen)
And, we know from the four gospel accounts of the Resurrection
Morning
that the writers couldn't even get their stories straight a little
bit
(who first saw the risen Jesus? Mary in three of the accounts and
Not
Mary in the fourth - do your own research Carl. I have.).
So, those facts about the bible, from the text, indicates that the
bible isn't true. Therefore, either the god of the bible doesn't
exist, or he doesn't have the power to protect his word (or,
considering Tyre, to make his prophecies come true) or the book is
just mankind dithering about gods or godlike beings that don't really
care about mankind at all, if they even existed. Of course, they
*could* have been aliens from other worlds. That's just as likely as
the claim that they were gods, right Carl? ;-)
And, all of this is available to any person who bothers to read the
bible instead of reading the writings of other believers and
accepting
their stories hook, line and sinker, then copying and pasting them
into newsgroups to share the ignorance, right Carl?
So, the bible says that those who say "there is no god" are fools,
but
that's the same bible that can be *proven* NOT to be the word of any
God, Carl. Therefore, since its just the rantings of incompetent,
superstitious shepherds from 2000 years ago, who cares what they say,
right Carl? ;-)
CARL
All of those so-called contradictions have long since been explained.
Mostly it's due to lack of scriptural understanding or willful ignorance.
JERRY
On who's part? The apologetics I have read indicate that it's the
theist who is making up simplistic explanations that don't fit the
situation (Like McDowall's claims about Tyre, for example). I can
easily shred the explanations of nearly all the apologists I have read
(including the CARM site that Bible John was so enamored with and JP
Holding's (AKA Robert Turkel, who is not a scholar but a prison
librarian and who fancies himself the Rush Limbaugh of the Apologetic
set).
In fact, with very little research on the web you can see where
Farrell Till destroys Turkel in a debate on Yahweh's Failed Land
Promise.
CARL
I suggest Christians read the following books which have
answered all of those false contradictions and more:
Hard Sayings of the Bible by Walter C. Kaiser (Editor), Peter H.
Davids (Contributor), F. F. Bruce (Contributor)
Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties by Gleason Archer
JERRY
I don't really have access to books here in Afghanistan, but I've read
some of Gleason Archer's work several years ago and was less than
impressed with him.
Those two are excellent.
Others worth reading and studying:
Difficulties in the Bible by R. A. Torrey
1001 Bible Questions Answered by William L. Pettingill, R. A. Torrey
The Complete Book of Bible Answers by Ron Rhodes
When Critics Ask by Norman Geisler
Exegetical Fallacies by D. A. Carson
Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible by John W. Haley
JERRY
I saw the video clips of Farrell Till trashing Geisler and I have to
say, he's less than impressive as well.
Also some websites that answer many of them and addresses why critics
and skeptics keep bringing the same old tired ones up again even
though they've been answered:
http://www.carm.org/bible_difficulties.htm
JERRY
This one only goes to Deuteronomy. Not helpful in the 1 Samuel 15
contradiction. And I have to say, your use of the CARM site, which I
analyzed for Bible John, really doesn't help you much. The man is
intellectually dishonest with his writings and easily refuted. Here
is a quick example of what he writes regarding the contradictory
Creation accounts in Genesis 1 & 2:
" * Genesis 1
- Day one - heavens and earth are created. "Let there be
light." Day and Night.
- Day two - Atmospheric waters separated from earth waters.
- Day three - Land appears separating the seas. Vegetation is
made.
- Day four - Sun, moon, stars are made.
- Day five - Sea life and birds are made.
- Day six - Land animals, creeping things, and man (male and
female) are made.
* Genesis 2
States heaven and earth were created. no plant yet on earth, no
rain yet, no man. but, a mist rose watering the surface of the
ground. Then the Lord formed man from dust of the ground and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life. Then God made Eve.
There is no contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2. Genesis 1 is
a detailed explanation of the six days of creation, day by day.
Genesis two is a recap and a more detailed explanation of the sixth
day, the day that Adam and Eve were made. The recap is stated in Gen.
2:4, "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were
created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven." Then,
Moses goes on to detail the creation of Adam and Eve as is seen in
verses 7 thru 24 of Gen. 2. Proof that it is not a creative account
is found in the fact that animals aren't even mentioned until after
the creation of Adam. Why? Probably because their purpose was
designated by Adam. They didn't need to be mentioned until after Adam
was created."
JERRY
What Glenn didn't notice or was intellectually dishonest enough to
intentionally leave out, is that the contradiction is on the *order*
of
creation. In Genesis 1, we see that the whales and all the creatures
of the seas were created on the 5th day, as well as all of the fowl of
the air. Man was created later, on the sixth day.
In Genesis 2, Man was created and THEN all the beasts of the field and
the fowl of the air. Problem was, we saw in the first chapter that
all the fowl of the air were already created BEFORE man was created.
In fact, Glenn's statement: "Proof that it is not a creative account
is found in the fact that animals aren't even mentioned until after
the creation of Adam. Why? Probably because their purpose was
designated by Adam. They didn't need to be mentioned until after Adam
was created."
If they didn't need to be mentioned until after After was created, why
were they mentioned first in the first chapter? Glenn's statement is
actually supportive of the theory that chapter 1 and chapter 2 were
written by two different authors and put together after the fact,
though I'm sure he didn't intend it that way.
CARL
http://www.carm.org/diff/Bible_contradictions.htm
This one doesn't address anything in particular but has this
interesting statement:
"The Originals are Inspired, not the copies."
How does he know? There ARE no originals. Only copies of copies of
copies and the copies show us that the bible has changed over the
years. We can also tell by studying the bible, Carl, that the bible
contains contradictions (showing it's neither reflective of God's
perfection, nor is it protected by God), that it's historically
inaccurate and that it contains failed prophecies.
CARL
http://www.tektonics.org/
JERRY
Turkel, as I mentioned earlier, is a joke. He fancies himself like
Limbaugh and spends his time in a debate attacking and making fun of
his opponent and not addressing the points made. Instead he will
throw out a statement that he can't support and go on with the
attacks. It's the reason he does so little debating, as a
knowledgeable opponent shows that he's unable to address the issues
under debate. He prefers a closed studio, much like his hero, and
wants to screen calls. He "debates" someone by taking their published
work, making fun of it and not giving a chance to the author to rebut
what Turkel has stated. Only the non-discerning reader takes him
seriously. (watching Till kick his ***** around the internet, and
Turkel's growing sputters of outrage were priceless.)
CARL
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/
Doesn't address contradictions/failed prophecies/historical
inaccuracies of the bible except in a very general "the bible is
always right" manner.
In fact, there are a number of better apologetics sites out there.
Heck, even Turkel's very poor attempts are better than christian-
thinktank.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: JOHN 14:12 - HEY CARL OR DUKE- ANY TRUE BELIEVER CHRISTIAN CAN DOJESUS'S MAGIC TRICKS |
27 Dec 2007 08:42:27 AM |
|
|
All of those so-called contradictions have long since been explained.
Mostly
it's due to lack of scriptural understanding or willful ignorance. I
suggest
Christians read the following books which have answered all of those
false
contradictions and more:
Hard Sayings of the Bible by Walter C. Kaiser (Editor), Peter H.
Davids
(Contributor), F. F. Bruce (Contributor)
Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties by Gleason Archer
Those two are excellent.
Difficulties in the Bible by R. A. Torrey
1001 Bible Questions Answered by William L. Pettingill, R. A. Torrey
The Complete Book of Bible Answers by Ron Rhodes
When Critics Ask by Norman Geisler
Exegetical Fallacies by D. A. Carson
Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible by John W. Haley
Also some websites that answer many of them and addresses why critics
and
skeptics keep bringing the same old tired ones up again even though
they've
been answered:
http://www.carm.org/bible_difficulties.htm
http://www.carm.org/diff/Bible_contradictions.htm
http://www.tektonics.org/
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: JOHN 14:12 - HEY CARL OR DUKE- ANY TRUE BELIEVER CHRISTIAN CAN DOJESUS'S MAGIC TRICKS |
27 Dec 2007 08:40:35 AM |
|
|
Ps 14:1; 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God ." (NIV)
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
