| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Bible John" |
| Date: |
02 Sep 2005 10:43:27 AM |
| Object: |
John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
Intro to Chr Theology is where they teach systematic/biblical theology
which entails Calvinism and Arminism. Some profs focus more on
systematic theology, while others more on biblical, and yet others blend
the two. There is a disctinction between theology courses and biblical
courses, if a prof focuses purely on historical systematic theology.
I ask you this John because it appears that you do not fully understand
Calvinism.
A grade does not label someone intellect nor set their knowledge in
stone, as they can learn more. So even if you earned a C- or lower,
dont be dismayed.
http://www.afcministry.com/Calvinism_unconditional_election.htm
Apologetics for Christians (this label is off. Calvinism is
something taught in a theology, not a apologetics course!)
Examining the Doctrine of Unconditional Election:
John Calvin, Canons of Dordt, Predestination
Have you ever heard of the doctrine of Unconditional Election? Have
you ever heard of the doctrine of Predestination? You will not find the
doctrine of Unconditional Election in the Bible, however you will find
the doctrine of Predestination. The doctrine of Unconditional Election
comes from the doctrines of Calvinism known as the "TULIP." The "TULIP"
stands for: "Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement,
Irresistible Grace, Perseverance of the Saints." The main teachings of
Calvinism come from John Calvin and the Canons of Dordt which are
considered official Calvinism theology. Below will be quotes from John
Calvin and the Canons of Dordt on the doctrine of Unconditional Election.
What is the doctrine of Unconditional Election and why is it a
un-Biblical doctrine? This doctrine teaches that before God created
anything He chose those who would be saved and those who would be damned
for all eternity. The doctrine of Unconditional Election stresses that
man has no choice (no free will) at all because man has no ability to
seek God, (Total Depravity) therefore it is by God's sovereign choice
that anyone is saved.
John Calvin: "By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by
which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with
regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are
preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and,
accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we
say that he has been predestinated to life or to death." (Institutes of
Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Section 5) Another way of saying
Unconditional Election by a Calvinist is "Predestination."
Predestination according to John Calvin is that "the eternal decree of
God is that some are preordained to eternal life and other to eternal
damnation."
Biblical response to "the doctrine that God has chosen some to eternal
life and some to eternal death."
The Bible speaks of Predestination, but nowhere does it indicate
Unconditional Election. The doctrine of Unconditional Election is a
doctrine that was created by those who are Reformed in theology. John
Calvin's theology on Predestination is not Biblical or logical. The
Bible speaks of Predestination in reference to those who are foreknown
by God and that they are predestined to do good works. Nowhere does the
Bible speak of Predestination in the sense that God has predestined some
to eternal damnation.
"29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed
to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many
brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these
whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also
glorified." (Romans 8:29-31) These verses clearly state that those who
are predestined are those whom God foreknew and that they were
predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. Calvinists teach
that "foreknew" does not mean those whom God knew would choose Him but
rather those God ordained to eternal life by His own decision. It is
clear from the English that "foreknew" indicates a knowledge of
something in advance. What is the Greek word and definition of
"foreknew" here? The Greek word is "Proginosko" which means, "to
perceive or recognize beforehand." (Lexical Aids To The New Testament,
Dr. Spiros Zodhiates, #4267 Proginosko) Dr. Spiros Zodhiates states the
following concerning Romans 8:29 and the word "foreknew": "This
foreknowledge and foreordination in the Scripture is always unto
salvation and not unto perdition. Therefore, it could be said that the
Lord never foreordains anyone to be lost, but those who are saved as a
result of their exercise of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ were known
ahead of time and thus chosen unto God." (Lexical Aids To The New
Testament, Dr. Spiros Zodhiates, #4267 Proginosko) It is clear that the
Greek supports the understanding that God knows those who would come to
Him. Dr. W. E. Vines states the following concerning Romans 8:29 and the
word "foreknew": "Foreknowledge is not the same as predestination; the
very sentence before us distinguishes the two. His foreknowledge marks
out the persons, His predestination determines His purposes and acts on
their behalf." (W. E. Vines Commentary on Romans 8:29) Dr. W. E. Vines
makes a clear distinction between "Foreknowledge" (foreknew) and
"Predestination." "Foreknowledge" is what God knows in advance and
"Predestination" is what God works out in the believer's life to serve
Him. The word "predestined" in Romans 8:29 is the Greek word "Proorizo"
which means, "to determine or decree beforehand." The way that believers
are "Predestined" is by God's "foreknowledge", therefore it is clear
that the Bible teaches Predestination but not in the way that John
Calvin or Calvinists teach.
Another passage of Scripture that clarifies "foreknowledge" and
believers in Christ being "chosen" (elect of God) is in 1 Peter 1:1-2:
"1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens,
scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by
the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be
sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest
measure." The "chosen" are those whom the Holy Spirit has convicted
(convinced) to believe who Jesus Christ is, to accept the message of the
Gospel, and to be sprinkled by the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ.
Peter is addressing the "chosen" by God's "foreknowledge" not on the
basis of Him choosing them without them not having a responsibility to
choose from, but on knowing them in advance.
John Calvin: "We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much,
that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all
those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those
whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction. We
maintain that this counsel, as regards the elect, is founded on his free
mercy, without any respect to human worth, while those whom he dooms to
destruction are excluded from access to life by a just and blameless,
but at the same time incomprehensible judgment." (Institutes of
Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Section 7) John Calvin makes it
very clear concerning Predestination by his statement, "that Scripture
clearly proves." John Calvin is stating that the Bible teaches the
following: "God by His eternal counsel determined all those who would be
saved by His own decision and for His pleasure; God by His eternal
counsel determined those who would be damned to destruction by His own
decision and for His pleasure; those who are doomed are judged by God on
a just and blameless judgment. These are the teachings of John Calvin
concerning the eternal determination of God and that His decisions in
this are just without any respect to human worth."
Biblical response to "John Calvin on God's eternal counsel and judgment."
The following Scriptures refute John Calvin's teachings on
Predestination: "14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes
will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He
gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not
perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the
world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 "He who believes in Him is not judged;
he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not
believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:14-18)
John the Apostle records the discussion that took place between Jesus
and Israel's religious leader Nicodemus. Jesus made it clear on how a
person is saved or judged for eternity. Jesus states, "as Moses lifted
up the serpent", which was from the book of Numbers where God's judgment
was coming on those who were rebelling against God, and all those who
"wanted to be saved" were told to look to this serpent which Moses was
holding. Those who looked to the serpent which Moses held did so out of
their own free will and Jesus taught this same truth for all those who
want to be saved from the judgment to come, and that people will have
make a choice. Jesus states this in such a way that a young child can
understand, that is, God loves the whole world and all those who choose
to believe and accept Jesus will be saved and have eternal life. All
those who refuse Jesus will die in their sins and will be eternally
separated from God. Jesus states that the Father did not send the Son
into the world to judge the world, but rather that they "might be
saved." It is clear that God does not force anyone to be saved but gives
them the choice so that they "might be saved." Calvinists will say that
the word "world" is in reference to the "elect or chosen" of God, but
reading this in context it is clear on what Jesus was teaching
concerning Moses and that the heart of the Father sent the Son to save
the "world." This was is in reference to anyone being saved and is not
speaking of some special elect group.
The Canons of Dordt agree with what John Calvin taught concerning
Unconditional Election known as the doctrine of Predestination: "By
predestination we mean the eternal decree of God by which he determined
with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All
are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal
life, others to eternal damnation; and accordingly, as each has been
created for one or the other of these ends, we say that we have been
predestinated to life or to death" (Canons of Dordt, First Head of
Doctrine, 3:21:5) "We say, then, that the scripture clearly proves this
much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for
all those whom it was his good pleasure one day to admit to salvation,
and those whom, on the other hand, it was his good pleasure to doom to
destruction." (Canons of Dordt, First Head of Doctrine, 3:21:7) These
quotes are in complete agreement on the teachings of Calvinism on the
doctrine of Unconditional Election.
More Scriptures that refute the false doctrine of Unconditional Election.
The Apostle Peter in his Epistle wrote the following: "The Lord is
not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient
toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to
repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) Peter was speaking about the return of Jesus
Christ and that the Lord's desire is not that any perish, and this is
very important to see. If the Lord's desire is not for any to perish
then why were they predestined or ordained to eternal damnation by His
good pleasure as John Calvin and the Canons of Dordt state? If the Lord
truly desires all (anyone) to be saved and come to repentance then why
were they elected for eternal destruction as John Calvin and the Canons
of Dordt state? The truth is Peter is teaching that the Lord does not
want any to perish, that is, to be eternal damned. Peter states that the
Lord has desires for anyone to be saved which refutes the un-Biblical
teachings of Calvinism on the doctrine of Unconditional Election.
Paul states the following: "Therefore having overlooked the times of
ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should
repent." (Acts 17:30) If the doctrine of Unconditional Election was true
why does Paul state that God is declaring or calling all men to repent?
According to Calvinism only those who are of the Elect or are Chosen of
God can repent. This shows that the teachings of Calvinism on
Unconditional Election are not Biblical or logical because that would
make God declaring something for men to do but are not given the ability
to do. Either this verse is true or it is not. If it is true then God is
stating through the Apostle Paul that all people everywhere have the
ability to repent. If this is not stating that all people have the
ability to repent and to turn to God then what is it stating?
The prophet Ezekiel revealed that God does not take pleasure in
anyone dying or in the death of the wicked: "21 "But if the wicked man
turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My
statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live;
he shall not die. 22 "All his transgressions which he has committed
will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which
he has practiced, he will live. 23 "Do I have any pleasure in the death
of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn
from his ways and live?...32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of
anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD. "Therefore, repent and live.""
(Ezekiel 18:21-23 & Ezekiel 18:32) The context of these Scriptures
states that anyone who turns to God and repents of his or her wrong ways
will be forgiven by God. God states here that He takes no pleasure in
the death of the wicked, which shows that the teaching of Calvinism on
God taking pleasure in choosing people to eternal damnation is not true.
God states He finds no pleasure in anyone who dies which would include
those who are not of God, therefore the doctrine of God choosing people
to be saved for His good pleasure and others to eternal damnation is
un-Biblical and against the heart of God. These verses also show that
God is desiring for people to turn from their wicked ways and declares
for them to repent and live. If God wants people to repent and live
than common sense says they were not created for eternal destruction.
As the Bible clearly teaches in many places God wants people to come to
Him, to choose Him, and to be saved.
Jesus taught that eternal fire or hell was not created for mankind
but for the devil and his angels: "Then He will also say to those on
His left, `Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which
has been prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41) Do
Calvinists believe that we have a pre-existence in which we were angels
that took on flesh? Jesus does not say "eternal fire" was prepared for
those whom God chosen to eternal destruction, but it was prepared for
the devil and his angels which was those that rebelled against God.
Conclusion to the "Examining the doctrine of Unconditional Election."
This information was shared to show the un-Biblical and illogical
teachings of Calvinism on the doctrine of Unconditional Election. It is
clear that the Bible teaches the doctrine of Predestination which means
God knows all those who would come to Him by His guidance and them
receiving the truth, and that God worked out things in their lives to
bring glory to Him. It is clear that the Bible does not teach that God
has chosen people to be predestined or ordained to eternal destruction
and damnation. There is much more that could be written on this topic,
but this is sufficient to show that the teachings of Calvinism
concerning Unconditional Election are not Biblical.
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Thanks,
John
--
BA Church Education Ministries AS Business/IT specialist
CERM-Church Education Resource
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
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2 Tim 4:2
AIM: Crucifyself03
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| User: "jw" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
02 Sep 2005 02:27:22 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 08:43:27 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote:
The question would correctly be:
"John Weatherly, what WERE your grades in theology?"
NOYB.
If you haven't figured it out, yet, sport, I have figured you out.
You're on the wrong team. You and I have nothing else to talk about
until you repent.
And I'm not holding my breath on that one.
And to answer you IN PART for the benefit of OTHERS, I have said
REPEATEDLY that I only took 1st year (half electives) at 2 different
seminaries.
As for my grades, ask someone else. I have posted that NUMEROUS times;
I am sure someone has them.
Intro to Chr Theology is where they teach systematic/biblical theology
which entails Calvinism and Arminism. Some profs focus more on
systematic theology, while others more on biblical, and yet others blend
the two. There is a disctinction between theology courses and biblical
courses, if a prof focuses purely on historical systematic theology.
I ask you this John because it appears that you do not fully understand
Calvinism.
And I find most Calvinists are so hide-bound, so blind as bats
spiritually, that they / you have LITTLE/NO understanding of the
IMPLICATIONS of what Calvin taught.
Yo are likely an EXCELLENT example of that.
jw
A grade does not label someone intellect nor set their knowledge in
stone, as they can learn more. So even if you earned a C- or lower,
dont be dismayed.
http://www.afcministry.com/Calvinism_unconditional_election.htm
Apologetics for Christians (this label is off. Calvinism is
something taught in a theology, not a apologetics course!)
Examining the Doctrine of Unconditional Election:
John Calvin, Canons of Dordt, Predestination
Have you ever heard of the doctrine of Unconditional Election? Have
you ever heard of the doctrine of Predestination? You will not find the
doctrine of Unconditional Election in the Bible, however you will find
the doctrine of Predestination. The doctrine of Unconditional Election
comes from the doctrines of Calvinism known as the "TULIP." The "TULIP"
stands for: "Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement,
Irresistible Grace, Perseverance of the Saints." The main teachings of
Calvinism come from John Calvin and the Canons of Dordt which are
considered official Calvinism theology. Below will be quotes from John
Calvin and the Canons of Dordt on the doctrine of Unconditional Election.
What is the doctrine of Unconditional Election and why is it a
un-Biblical doctrine? This doctrine teaches that before God created
anything He chose those who would be saved and those who would be damned
for all eternity. The doctrine of Unconditional Election stresses that
man has no choice (no free will) at all because man has no ability to
seek God, (Total Depravity) therefore it is by God's sovereign choice
that anyone is saved.
John Calvin: "By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by
which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with
regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are
preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and,
accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we
say that he has been predestinated to life or to death." (Institutes of
Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Section 5) Another way of saying
Unconditional Election by a Calvinist is "Predestination."
Predestination according to John Calvin is that "the eternal decree of
God is that some are preordained to eternal life and other to eternal
damnation."
Biblical response to "the doctrine that God has chosen some to eternal
life and some to eternal death."
The Bible speaks of Predestination, but nowhere does it indicate
Unconditional Election. The doctrine of Unconditional Election is a
doctrine that was created by those who are Reformed in theology. John
Calvin's theology on Predestination is not Biblical or logical. The
Bible speaks of Predestination in reference to those who are foreknown
by God and that they are predestined to do good works. Nowhere does the
Bible speak of Predestination in the sense that God has predestined some
to eternal damnation.
"29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed
to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many
brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these
whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also
glorified." (Romans 8:29-31) These verses clearly state that those who
are predestined are those whom God foreknew and that they were
predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. Calvinists teach
that "foreknew" does not mean those whom God knew would choose Him but
rather those God ordained to eternal life by His own decision. It is
clear from the English that "foreknew" indicates a knowledge of
something in advance. What is the Greek word and definition of
"foreknew" here? The Greek word is "Proginosko" which means, "to
perceive or recognize beforehand." (Lexical Aids To The New Testament,
Dr. Spiros Zodhiates, #4267 Proginosko) Dr. Spiros Zodhiates states the
following concerning Romans 8:29 and the word "foreknew": "This
foreknowledge and foreordination in the Scripture is always unto
salvation and not unto perdition. Therefore, it could be said that the
Lord never foreordains anyone to be lost, but those who are saved as a
result of their exercise of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ were known
ahead of time and thus chosen unto God." (Lexical Aids To The New
Testament, Dr. Spiros Zodhiates, #4267 Proginosko) It is clear that the
Greek supports the understanding that God knows those who would come to
Him. Dr. W. E. Vines states the following concerning Romans 8:29 and the
word "foreknew": "Foreknowledge is not the same as predestination; the
very sentence before us distinguishes the two. His foreknowledge marks
out the persons, His predestination determines His purposes and acts on
their behalf." (W. E. Vines Commentary on Romans 8:29) Dr. W. E. Vines
makes a clear distinction between "Foreknowledge" (foreknew) and
"Predestination." "Foreknowledge" is what God knows in advance and
"Predestination" is what God works out in the believer's life to serve
Him. The word "predestined" in Romans 8:29 is the Greek word "Proorizo"
which means, "to determine or decree beforehand." The way that believers
are "Predestined" is by God's "foreknowledge", therefore it is clear
that the Bible teaches Predestination but not in the way that John
Calvin or Calvinists teach.
Another passage of Scripture that clarifies "foreknowledge" and
believers in Christ being "chosen" (elect of God) is in 1 Peter 1:1-2:
"1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens,
scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by
the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be
sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest
measure." The "chosen" are those whom the Holy Spirit has convicted
(convinced) to believe who Jesus Christ is, to accept the message of the
Gospel, and to be sprinkled by the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ.
Peter is addressing the "chosen" by God's "foreknowledge" not on the
basis of Him choosing them without them not having a responsibility to
choose from, but on knowing them in advance.
John Calvin: "We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much,
that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all
those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those
whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction. We
maintain that this counsel, as regards the elect, is founded on his free
mercy, without any respect to human worth, while those whom he dooms to
destruction are excluded from access to life by a just and blameless,
but at the same time incomprehensible judgment." (Institutes of
Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Section 7) John Calvin makes it
very clear concerning Predestination by his statement, "that Scripture
clearly proves." John Calvin is stating that the Bible teaches the
following: "God by His eternal counsel determined all those who would be
saved by His own decision and for His pleasure; God by His eternal
counsel determined those who would be damned to destruction by His own
decision and for His pleasure; those who are doomed are judged by God on
a just and blameless judgment. These are the teachings of John Calvin
concerning the eternal determination of God and that His decisions in
this are just without any respect to human worth."
Biblical response to "John Calvin on God's eternal counsel and judgment."
The following Scriptures refute John Calvin's teachings on
Predestination: "14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes
will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He
gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not
perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the
world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 "He who believes in Him is not judged;
he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not
believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:14-18)
John the Apostle records the discussion that took place between Jesus
and Israel's religious leader Nicodemus. Jesus made it clear on how a
person is saved or judged for eternity. Jesus states, "as Moses lifted
up the serpent", which was from the book of Numbers where God's judgment
was coming on those who were rebelling against God, and all those who
"wanted to be saved" were told to look to this serpent which Moses was
holding. Those who looked to the serpent which Moses held did so out of
their own free will and Jesus taught this same truth for all those who
want to be saved from the judgment to come, and that people will have
make a choice. Jesus states this in such a way that a young child can
understand, that is, God loves the whole world and all those who choose
to believe and accept Jesus will be saved and have eternal life. All
those who refuse Jesus will die in their sins and will be eternally
separated from God. Jesus states that the Father did not send the Son
into the world to judge the world, but rather that they "might be
saved." It is clear that God does not force anyone to be saved but gives
them the choice so that they "might be saved." Calvinists will say that
the word "world" is in reference to the "elect or chosen" of God, but
reading this in context it is clear on what Jesus was teaching
concerning Moses and that the heart of the Father sent the Son to save
the "world." This was is in reference to anyone being saved and is not
speaking of some special elect group.
The Canons of Dordt agree with what John Calvin taught concerning
Unconditional Election known as the doctrine of Predestination: "By
predestination we mean the eternal decree of God by which he determined
with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All
are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal
life, others to eternal damnation; and accordingly, as each has been
created for one or the other of these ends, we say that we have been
predestinated to life or to death" (Canons of Dordt, First Head of
Doctrine, 3:21:5) "We say, then, that the scripture clearly proves this
much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for
all those whom it was his good pleasure one day to admit to salvation,
and those whom, on the other hand, it was his good pleasure to doom to
destruction." (Canons of Dordt, First Head of Doctrine, 3:21:7) These
quotes are in complete agreement on the teachings of Calvinism on the
doctrine of Unconditional Election.
More Scriptures that refute the false doctrine of Unconditional Election.
The Apostle Peter in his Epistle wrote the following: "The Lord is
not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient
toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to
repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) Peter was speaking about the return of Jesus
Christ and that the Lord's desire is not that any perish, and this is
very important to see. If the Lord's desire is not for any to perish
then why were they predestined or ordained to eternal damnation by His
good pleasure as John Calvin and the Canons of Dordt state? If the Lord
truly desires all (anyone) to be saved and come to repentance then why
were they elected for eternal destruction as John Calvin and the Canons
of Dordt state? The truth is Peter is teaching that the Lord does not
want any to perish, that is, to be eternal damned. Peter states that the
Lord has desires for anyone to be saved which refutes the un-Biblical
teachings of Calvinism on the doctrine of Unconditional Election.
Paul states the following: "Therefore having overlooked the times of
ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should
repent." (Acts 17:30) If the doctrine of Unconditional Election was true
why does Paul state that God is declaring or calling all men to repent?
According to Calvinism only those who are of the Elect or are Chosen of
God can repent. This shows that the teachings of Calvinism on
Unconditional Election are not Biblical or logical because that would
make God declaring something for men to do but are not given the ability
to do. Either this verse is true or it is not. If it is true then God is
stating through the Apostle Paul that all people everywhere have the
ability to repent. If this is not stating that all people have the
ability to repent and to turn to God then what is it stating?
The prophet Ezekiel revealed that God does not take pleasure in
anyone dying or in the death of the wicked: "21 "But if the wicked man
turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My
statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live;
he shall not die. 22 "All his transgressions which he has committed
will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which
he has practiced, he will live. 23 "Do I have any pleasure in the death
of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn
from his ways and live?...32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of
anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD. "Therefore, repent and live.""
(Ezekiel 18:21-23 & Ezekiel 18:32) The context of these Scriptures
states that anyone who turns to God and repents of his or her wrong ways
will be forgiven by God. God states here that He takes no pleasure in
the death of the wicked, which shows that the teaching of Calvinism on
God taking pleasure in choosing people to eternal damnation is not true.
God states He finds no pleasure in anyone who dies which would include
those who are not of God, therefore the doctrine of God choosing people
to be saved for His good pleasure and others to eternal damnation is
un-Biblical and against the heart of God. These verses also show that
God is desiring for people to turn from their wicked ways and declares
for them to repent and live. If God wants people to repent and live
than common sense says they were not created for eternal destruction.
As the Bible clearly teaches in many places God wants people to come to
Him, to choose Him, and to be saved.
Jesus taught that eternal fire or hell was not created for mankind
but for the devil and his angels: "Then He will also say to those on
His left, `Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which
has been prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41) Do
Calvinists believe that we have a pre-existence in which we were angels
that took on flesh? Jesus does not say "eternal fire" was prepared for
those whom God chosen to eternal destruction, but it was prepared for
the devil and his angels which was those that rebelled against God.
Conclusion to the "Examining the doctrine of Unconditional Election."
This information was shared to show the un-Biblical and illogical
teachings of Calvinism on the doctrine of Unconditional Election. It is
clear that the Bible teaches the doctrine of Predestination which means
God knows all those who would come to Him by His guidance and them
receiving the truth, and that God worked out things in their lives to
bring glory to Him. It is clear that the Bible does not teach that God
has chosen people to be predestined or ordained to eternal destruction
and damnation. There is much more that could be written on this topic,
but this is sufficient to show that the teachings of Calvinism
concerning Unconditional Election are not Biblical.
Home / Audio Teachings / The Bible / Church Ministry / Controversial
Issues / Calvinism Examined / Evangelism & Apologetics / Salvation
Doctrine / Spiritual Gifts & Callings / Trinity Doctrine / Faith
Movement / Hyper Dispensationalism / Jehovah's Witnesses / Latter-Day
Saints / Oneness Pentecostals / Islam
All rights reserved. Please feel free to copy and distribute this
material. Selling or altering of the text in anyway is not allowed.
Thanks,
John
.
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| User: "Bible John" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
03 Sep 2005 09:01:22 AM |
|
|
In article <3l9hh1lsg8k9pmss001blheginop8schnb@4ax.com>,
jw <jw<no>@yahoo.who> wrote:
If you haven't figured it out, yet, sport, I have figured you out.
You're on the wrong team. You and I have nothing else to talk about
until you repent.
Because I support Joel Osteen, Jason Gastrich and I disagree with you?
And I'm not holding my breath on that one.
And to answer you IN PART for the benefit of OTHERS, I have said
REPEATEDLY that I only took 1st year (half electives) at 2 different
seminaries.
As for my grades, ask someone else. I have posted that NUMEROUS times;
I am sure someone has them.
Were they all F's?
Intro to Chr Theology is where they teach systematic/biblical theology
which entails Calvinism and Arminism. Some profs focus more on
systematic theology, while others more on biblical, and yet others blend
the two. There is a disctinction between theology courses and biblical
courses, if a prof focuses purely on historical systematic theology.
I ask you this John because it appears that you do not fully understand
Calvinism.
And I find most Calvinists are so hide-bound, so blind as bats
spiritually, that they / you have LITTLE/NO understanding of the
IMPLICATIONS of what Calvin taught.
Yo are likely an EXCELLENT example of that.
JW you need mental help. Please get it.
John
jw
--
BA Church Education Ministries AS Business/IT specialist
CERM-Church Education Resource
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/unbeliever_list.htm
2 Tim 4:2
AIM: Crucifyself03
.
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| User: "Doc Watson docwatson@yup" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
03 Sep 2005 10:28:38 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:01:22 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> said the following funny stuff in this here
little old new 'froup:
Were they all F's?
as in FLUNK
as in FAILURE
as in FARCE
I wonder why he was booted from seminary in the first place ???
-------------------------------------------------------
JESUS IS THE ROCK
God doesn't call the qualified; He qualifies the called
-------------------------------------------------------
.
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| User: "Muffin" |
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| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
03 Sep 2005 09:41:08 PM |
|
|
In article <88gjh1pbl4c0pdec5knituqbvml05v26ko@4ax.com>, DOC@WATSON wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:01:22 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> said the following funny stuff in this here
little old new 'froup:
Were they all F's?
as in FLUNK
as in FAILURE
as in FARCE
I wonder why he was booted from seminary in the first place ???
maybe at least those Christians had common sense and guts
.
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| User: "Doc Watson docwatson@yup" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
04 Sep 2005 01:48:15 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:41:08 +1100,
(Muffin) said the following funny stuff in this here little old new
'froup:
In article <88gjh1pbl4c0pdec5knituqbvml05v26ko@4ax.com>, DOC@WATSON wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:01:22 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> said the following funny stuff in this here
little old new 'froup:
Were they all F's?
as in FLUNK
as in FAILURE
as in FARCE
I wonder why he was booted from seminary in the first place ???
maybe at least those Christians had common sense and guts
I cannot help but wonder if perhaps he pulled one his classic
threatening or cursing-out performances while there, was observed,
reprimanded, and given the boot out the door.
-------------------------------------------------------
JESUS IS THE ROCK
God doesn't call the qualified; He qualifies the called
-------------------------------------------------------
.
|
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| User: "Scout Lady" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
04 Sep 2005 07:21:14 PM |
|
|
"Doc Watson" <docwatson@yup> wrote in message
news:jaulh1hu4at6ahim98o6dep2o07u1cclmh@4ax.com...
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:41:08 +1100,
(Muffin) said the following funny stuff in this here little old new
'froup:
In article <88gjh1pbl4c0pdec5knituqbvml05v26ko@4ax.com>, DOC@WATSON wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:01:22 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> said the following funny stuff in this here
little old new 'froup:
Were they all F's?
as in FLUNK
as in FAILURE
as in FARCE
I wonder why he was booted from seminary in the first place ???
maybe at least those Christians had common sense and guts
I cannot help but wonder
If you had a life that was even minimally fulfilling you wouldn't have to
spend so much of your time wondering about John or anyone else.
.
|
|
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| User: "Muffin" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
06 Sep 2005 04:27:24 PM |
|
|
In article <3o1iqfF3qlk8U1@individual.net>, "Scout Lady"
<scoutlady@nospam.net> wrote:
If you had a life that was even minimally fulfilling you wouldn't have to
spend so much of your time wondering about John or anyone else.
Got you bigots on the run
haven't I
.
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|
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| User: "Scout Lady" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
07 Sep 2005 01:07:12 PM |
|
|
"Muffin" <Sheepstation@Dingoville.com> wrote in message
news:Sheepstation-0709050827240001@ppp2e45.dyn.pacific.net.au...
In article <3o1iqfF3qlk8U1@individual.net>, "Scout Lady"
<scoutlady@nospam.net> wrote:
If you had a life that was even minimally fulfilling you wouldn't have to
spend so much of your time wondering about John or anyone else.
Got you bigots on the run
haven't I
Actually despite your frequent attempts of bullying others no one has run
from you yet.
.
|
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| User: "Doc Watson docwatson@yup" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
07 Sep 2005 09:22:25 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 08:27:24 +1100,
(Muffin) said the following funny stuff in this here little old new
'froup:
In article <3o1iqfF3qlk8U1@individual.net>, "Scout Lady"
<scoutlady@nospam.net> wrote:
If you had a life that was even minimally fulfilling you wouldn't have to
spend so much of your time wondering about John or anyone else.
Got you bigots on the run
haven't I
Actually, I think I shall convert to romanism, and simply declare
myself a saint.....
I wonder which sounds best:
St. Elaine
St. Watson
St. Doc
St. Romath
or legion's fave, how about 'St. Darth'?
LOL!
.
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| User: "Scout Lady" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
07 Sep 2005 01:08:36 PM |
|
|
"Doc Watson" <docwatson@yup> wrote in message
news:dnqth1t1hfr38ebvq68avbnckj070u3hqs@4ax.com...
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 08:27:24 +1100,
(Muffin) said the following funny stuff in this here little old new
'froup:
In article <3o1iqfF3qlk8U1@individual.net>, "Scout Lady"
<scoutlady@nospam.net> wrote:
If you had a life that was even minimally fulfilling you wouldn't have
to
spend so much of your time wondering about John or anyone else.
Got you bigots on the run
haven't I
Actually, I think I shall convert to romanism, and simply declare
myself a saint.....
I wonder which sounds best:
St. Elaine
St. Watson
St. Doc
St. Romath
or legion's fave, how about 'St. Darth'?
LOL!
You ought to stick with satan's main squeeze or satan's lapdancer since it
is more fitting.
.
|
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| User: "Christian" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
08 Sep 2005 02:43:09 PM |
|
|
Steve, do you have a sale going on today?
http://users.rcn.com/sadams.enteract/winfaq.html#104
1-800-SELLCOM 919-401-0067 SELLCOM 2307 Whitley Drive, Durham, NC
27707-2221
Steve, is your son behaving himself?
DOC Number: 0851201
P&P Status: ACTIVE
Name(s): WINTER, JOSEPH V.
Gender: MALE
Race: WHITE
Age: 18
Birth Date: 04/02/1986
Photo Not Available. Due to legal constraints,
photo can only be shown for ACTIVE inmates.
Most Recent Incarceration Summary: No Incarceration Record Found.
Most Recent Probation and Parole Summary:
Status: ACTIVE
Office of Supervision: DISTRICT 14 UNIT D
Total Term of Supervision: 2 YEARS
Crime: ASSAULT ON CHILD (PRINCIPAL)
Crime Type: MISD.
Punishment Type: INTERMEDIATE SS
Supervision Record for Sentence Number: 01-001
Commitment Type: PROBATION/PAROLE
Conviction Date: 09/07/2004
County of Conviction: DURHAM
Punishment Type: INTERMEDIATE SS
Sentence Type 1: PROBATION
Sentence Type 2: SPECIAL PROBATION (SPLIT)
Sentence Type 3: COUNTY JAIL
Supervision Term: 24 MONTHS
Commitment: INITIAL
Docket#: 04051349
Offense (Qualifier): ASSAULT ON CHILD (PRINCIPAL)
Offense Date: 05/23/2003
Type: MISD.
Sentencing Penalty Class Code: CLASS A1 MISDEMEANOR SS
--
.
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
07 Sep 2005 09:36:06 PM |
|
|
Doc Watson <docwatson@yup> spake thusly and wrote:
Actually, I think I shall convert to romanism,
Scum, dirt false-christian scum, Merle Elaine Matthews, can you
be so stupid that you are not aware that you already converted to
romanism when you started worshipping that filthy trinity you
love so much.
So far the false-christian dirt Merle Elaine Matthews always
changes the subject when she is asked what the difference is
between the trinity that she worships and the trinity that the
pope worships. That is because, in spite of her ravings against
"romanism", she is just as "romanist" as the pope is!
In what way is Merle's three headed trinity Roman idol god squad
different from the popes three headed trinity Roman idol god
squad?
In what way is Merle's trinity cult baptism different
than the pope's trinity cult baptism?
Merle Elaine Matthews is merely polytheistic "Catholic lite"<tm>
railing and lying.
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
|
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| User: "Doc Watson docwatson@yup" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
08 Sep 2005 12:44:08 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 22:36:06 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter
<steve.NO--SPAM@prime.org> said the following funny stuff in this here
little old new 'froup:
silence, old whiner - now do your wife's dishes.
followups CORRECTED.
.
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| User: "jw" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
03 Sep 2005 06:04:48 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:01:22 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote:
In article <3l9hh1lsg8k9pmss001blheginop8schnb@4ax.com>,
jw <jw<no>@yahoo.who> wrote:
If you haven't figured it out, yet, sport, I have figured you out.
You're on the wrong team. You and I have nothing else to talk about
until you repent.
Because I support Joel Osteen, Jason Gastrich and I disagree with you?
And I'm not holding my breath on that one.
And to answer you IN PART for the benefit of OTHERS, I have said
REPEATEDLY that I only took 1st year (half electives) at 2 different
seminaries.
As for my grades, ask someone else. I have posted that NUMEROUS times;
I am sure someone has them.
Were they all F's?
You tell the whole group something I told you in confidence, then you
insult me, and NOW you expect us to go on as if nothing had happened?
Are you crazy?
jw
Intro to Chr Theology is where they teach systematic/biblical theology
which entails Calvinism and Arminism. Some profs focus more on
systematic theology, while others more on biblical, and yet others blend
the two. There is a disctinction between theology courses and biblical
courses, if a prof focuses purely on historical systematic theology.
I ask you this John because it appears that you do not fully understand
Calvinism.
And I find most Calvinists are so hide-bound, so blind as bats
spiritually, that they / you have LITTLE/NO understanding of the
IMPLICATIONS of what Calvin taught.
Yo are likely an EXCELLENT example of that.
JW you need mental help. Please get it.
I am WELL aware that I need help, and I am in therapy.
I suggest you do the same.
You MOCK Christianity with virtually every post.
You hypocritical PHONEY!!
jw
John
jw
.
|
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| User: "ujb" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
03 Sep 2005 06:40:13 PM |
|
|
"jw
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:01:22 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote:
In article <3l9hh1lsg8k9pmss001blheginop8schnb@4ax.com>,
jw <jw<no>@yahoo.who> wrote:
If you haven't figured it out, yet, sport, I have figured you out.
You're on the wrong team. You and I have nothing else to talk about
until you repent.
Because I support Joel Osteen, Jason Gastrich and I disagree with you?
And I'm not holding my breath on that one.
And to answer you IN PART for the benefit of OTHERS, I have said
REPEATEDLY that I only took 1st year (half electives) at 2 different
seminaries.
As for my grades, ask someone else. I have posted that NUMEROUS times;
I am sure someone has them.
Were they all F's?
You tell the whole group something I told you in confidence, then you
insult me, and NOW you expect us to go on as if nothing had happened?
Are you crazy?
We know who is crazy, and it ain't BJ!
jw
Intro to Chr Theology is where they teach systematic/biblical theology
which entails Calvinism and Arminism. Some profs focus more on
systematic theology, while others more on biblical, and yet others blend
the two. There is a disctinction between theology courses and biblical
courses, if a prof focuses purely on historical systematic theology.
I ask you this John because it appears that you do not fully understand
Calvinism.
And I find most Calvinists are so hide-bound, so blind as bats
spiritually, that they / you have LITTLE/NO understanding of the
IMPLICATIONS of what Calvin taught.
Yo are likely an EXCELLENT example of that.
JW you need mental help. Please get it.
I am WELL aware that I need help, and I am in therapy.
I suggest you do the same.
You MOCK Christianity with virtually every post.
You hypocritical PHONEY!!
jw
John
jw
.
|
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| User: "RAS" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
03 Sep 2005 09:33:00 PM |
|
|
ujb wrote:
"jw
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:01:22 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote:
In article <3l9hh1lsg8k9pmss001blheginop8schnb@4ax.com>,
jw <jw<no>@yahoo.who> wrote:
If you haven't figured it out, yet, sport, I have figured you out.
You're on the wrong team. You and I have nothing else to talk about
until you repent.
Because I support Joel Osteen, Jason Gastrich and I disagree with you?
And I'm not holding my breath on that one.
And to answer you IN PART for the benefit of OTHERS, I have said
REPEATEDLY that I only took 1st year (half electives) at 2 different
seminaries.
As for my grades, ask someone else. I have posted that NUMEROUS times;
I am sure someone has them.
Were they all F's?
You tell the whole group something I told you in confidence, then you
insult me, and NOW you expect us to go on as if nothing had happened?
Are you crazy?
We know who is crazy, and it ain't BJ!
jw
Intro to Chr Theology is where they teach systematic/biblical theology
which entails Calvinism and Arminism. Some profs focus more on
systematic theology, while others more on biblical, and yet others blend
the two. There is a disctinction between theology courses and biblical
courses, if a prof focuses purely on historical systematic theology.
I ask you this John because it appears that you do not fully understand
Calvinism.
And I find most Calvinists are so hide-bound, so blind as bats
spiritually, that they / you have LITTLE/NO understanding of the
IMPLICATIONS of what Calvin taught.
Yo are likely an EXCELLENT example of that.
JW you need mental help. Please get it.
I am WELL aware that I need help, and I am in therapy.
I suggest you do the same.
You MOCK Christianity with virtually every post.
You hypocritical PHONEY!!
jw
John
jw
'Bible' John is NOT a Christian. Although I don't agree with a lot of
jw's ways of responding to people, I can see that he is trying to deal
with his limitations. 'Bible' John might do well, to seek help, also.
RAS
.
|
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| User: "Muffin" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
03 Sep 2005 09:44:24 PM |
|
|
In article <cr6dnT0GxoRGwYfeRVn-ug@rcn.net>, RAS <rstrub@rocketmail.com> wrote:
'Bible' John is NOT a Christian. Although I don't agree with a lot of
jw's ways of responding to people, I can see that he is trying to deal
with his limitations. '
"Pigs Arse" as we say down here
He does NOT
He inflicts his limitations on other people in company with abuse and defamation
.
|
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| User: "Doc Watson docwatson@yup" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
04 Sep 2005 01:48:17 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:44:24 +1100,
(Muffin) said the following funny stuff in this here little old new
'froup:
In article <cr6dnT0GxoRGwYfeRVn-ug@rcn.net>, RAS <rstrub@rocketmail.com> wrote:
'Bible' John is NOT a Christian. Although I don't agree with a lot of
jw's ways of responding to people, I can see that he is trying to deal
with his limitations. '
"Pigs Arse" as we say down here
He does NOT
He inflicts his limitations on other people in company with abuse and defamation
I agree., He is NOT trying to 'deal with his limitations', but rather,
he is trying to bully everyone ELSE into submission.
"Don't quote the KJV to me, or I will not respond!"
"You are unchristian for posting in the KJV when you know I cannot
read it!"
"Demoniac!"
"Wait until you're hauled into court. You can explain yourself to the
judge!"
"How many times have I warned you that it's not very wise to provoke
me, when you know I'm mentally ill?"
etc,etc,etc...
Yup- we all know the drill, and we all know that one's DRIVEL!
-------------------------------------------------------
JESUS IS THE ROCK
God doesn't call the qualified; He qualifies the called
-------------------------------------------------------
.
|
|
|
| User: "Scout Lady" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
04 Sep 2005 07:51:18 PM |
|
|
"Doc Watson" <docwatson@yup> wrote in message
news:uddmh1djs9gv7ne5mt4a5cq3tn93lq5949@4ax.com...
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:44:24 +1100,
(Muffin) said the following funny stuff in this here little old new
'froup:
In article <cr6dnT0GxoRGwYfeRVn-ug@rcn.net>, RAS <rstrub@rocketmail.com>
wrote:
'Bible' John is NOT a Christian. Although I don't agree with a lot of
jw's ways of responding to people, I can see that he is trying to deal
with his limitations. '
"Pigs Arse" as we say down here
He does NOT
He inflicts his limitations on other people in company with abuse and
defamation
I agree., He is NOT trying to 'deal with his limitations', but rather,
he is trying to bully everyone ELSE into submission.
And this is different from you in which way?
"Don't quote the KJV to me, or I will not respond!"
As opposed to your demands that nonBaptists get out of the Baptist group?
"You are unchristian for posting in the KJV when you know I cannot
read it!"
And this is different from you stating that those who are Catholic are in a
God-accursed Church?
"Demoniac!"
How is this different from you claiming that I "live to lust"?
"Wait until you're hauled into court. You can explain yourself to the
judge!"
You are actually preparing according to your own words!
"How many times have I warned you that it's not very wise to provoke
me, when you know I'm mentally ill?"
And this is different from your saying how many times did I tell you boy,
hey punk, and indictating Jesus is going to get whomever you disagree with?
etc,etc,etc...
Yup- we all know the drill, and we all know that one's DRIVEL!
You are no better than John or anyone else.
.
|
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|
|
|
| User: "jw" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
04 Sep 2005 02:18:49 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:44:24 +1100,
(Muffin) wrote:
copyright 2005 all rights reserved; no portion of this may be used
without expressed written consent of the author.
In article <cr6dnT0GxoRGwYfeRVn-ug@rcn.net>, RAS <rstrub@rocketmail.com> wrote:
'Bible' John is NOT a Christian. Although I don't agree with a lot of
jw's ways of responding to people, I can see that he is trying to deal
with his limitations. '
"Pigs Arse" as we say down here
He does NOT
He inflicts his limitations on other people in company with abuse and defamation
You could pretend to be mature and responsible, and ignore me. You
refuse to even do that.
jw
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
06 Sep 2005 08:14:39 AM |
|
|
"jw" <wjohn1134@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:os7lh1d3ninrfbg698t37d8uvkuifloqnd@4ax.com...
snip
You could pretend to be mature and responsible, and ignore me. You
refuse to even do that.
Why should anyone do what you refuse to do yourself, hypocrite.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
|
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| User: "Muffin" |
|
| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
04 Sep 2005 05:51:52 PM |
|
|
In article <os7lh1d3ninrfbg698t37d8uvkuifloqnd@4ax.com>, jw
<wjohn1134@qwest.net> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:44:24 +1100,
(Muffin) wrote:
copyright 2005 all rights reserved; no portion of this may be used
without expressed written consent of the author.
In article <cr6dnT0GxoRGwYfeRVn-ug@rcn.net>, RAS
<rstrub@rocketmail.com> wrote:
'Bible' John is NOT a Christian. Although I don't agree with a lot of
jw's ways of responding to people, I can see that he is trying to deal
with his limitations. '
"Pigs Arse" as we say down here
He does NOT
He inflicts his limitations on other people in company with abuse and
defamation
You could pretend to be mature and responsible, and ignore me. You
refuse to even do that.
jw
Like Jesus I don't ignore religious bullies
I deal with them
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| User: "j-w" |
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| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
05 Sep 2005 12:05:54 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 09:51:52 +1100,
(Muffin) wrote:
copyright 2005 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of
this may be used elsewhere without expressed written consent of the
author.
In article <os7lh1d3ninrfbg698t37d8uvkuifloqnd@4ax.com>, jw
<wjohn1134@qwest.net> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:44:24 +1100,
(Muffin) wrote:
copyright 2005 all rights reserved; no portion of this may be used
without expressed written consent of the author.
In article <cr6dnT0GxoRGwYfeRVn-ug@rcn.net>, RAS
<rstrub@rocketmail.com> wrote:
'Bible' John is NOT a Christian. Although I don't agree with a lot of
jw's ways of responding to people, I can see that he is trying to deal
with his limitations. '
"Pigs Arse" as we say down here
He does NOT
He inflicts his limitations on other people in company with abuse and
defamation
You could pretend to be mature and responsible, and ignore me. You
refuse to even do that.
jw
Like Jesus I don't ignore religious bullies
I deal with them
Really?
Then we have a LOT in common!
I do, too!
jw
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| User: "Doc Watson docwatson@yup" |
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| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
04 Sep 2005 01:48:19 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 00:18:49 -0700, jw <wjohn1134@qwest.net> said the
following funny stuff in this here little old new 'froup:
You could pretend to be mature and responsible, and ignore me. You
refuse to even do that.
jw
so-- kindly explain why YOU refuse to ignore others then!
-------------------------------------------------------
JESUS IS THE ROCK
God doesn't call the qualified; He qualifies the called
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| User: "Scout Lady" |
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| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
04 Sep 2005 07:42:56 PM |
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"Doc Watson" <docwatson@yup> wrote in message
news:6mdmh1hagnt5bsulgpk6ak63vkodb331ot@4ax.com...
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 00:18:49 -0700, jw <wjohn1134@qwest.net> said the
following funny stuff in this here little old new 'froup:
You could pretend to be mature and responsible, and ignore me. You
refuse to even do that.
jw
so-- kindly explain why YOU refuse to ignore others then!
He is mentally ill and can't help himself. How about you?
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| User: "ujb" |
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| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
04 Sep 2005 05:59:58 AM |
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RAS wrote:
ujb wrote:
"jw
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:01:22 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote:
In article <3l9hh1lsg8k9pmss001blheginop8schnb@4ax.com>,
jw <jw<no>@yahoo.who> wrote:
If you haven't figured it out, yet, sport, I have figured you out.
You're on the wrong team. You and I have nothing else to talk about
until you repent.
Because I support Joel Osteen, Jason Gastrich and I disagree with you?
And I'm not holding my breath on that one.
And to answer you IN PART for the benefit of OTHERS, I have said
REPEATEDLY that I only took 1st year (half electives) at 2 different
seminaries.
As for my grades, ask someone else. I have posted that NUMEROUS times;
I am sure someone has them.
Were they all F's?
You tell the whole group something I told you in confidence, then you
insult me, and NOW you expect us to go on as if nothing had happened?
Are you crazy?
We know who is crazy, and it ain't BJ!
jw
Intro to Chr Theology is where they teach systematic/biblical theology
which entails Calvinism and Arminism. Some profs focus more on
systematic theology, while others more on biblical, and yet others blend
the two. There is a disctinction between theology courses and biblical
courses, if a prof focuses purely on historical systematic theology.
I ask you this John because it appears that you do not fully understand
Calvinism.
And I find most Calvinists are so hide-bound, so blind as bats
spiritually, that they / you have LITTLE/NO understanding of the
IMPLICATIONS of what Calvin taught.
Yo are likely an EXCELLENT example of that.
JW you need mental help. Please get it.
I am WELL aware that I need help, and I am in therapy.
I suggest you do the same.
You MOCK Christianity with virtually every post.
You hypocritical PHONEY!!
jw
John
jw
'Bible' John is NOT a Christian.
Do you have an unbeliever web page too?
Although I don't agree with a lot of
jw's ways of responding to people, I can see that he is trying to deal
with his limitations.
"Limitations", he'll match his IQ with anyone at any time!
'Bible' John might do well, to seek help, also.
Ya think! :)
RAS
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| User: "jw" |
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| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
04 Sep 2005 02:17:34 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:33:00 -0400, RAS <rstrub@rocketmail.com> wrote:
copyright 2005 all rights reserved; no portion of this may be used
without expressed written consent of the author.
ujb wrote:
"jw
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:01:22 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote:
In article <3l9hh1lsg8k9pmss001blheginop8schnb@4ax.com>,
jw <jw<no>@yahoo.who> wrote:
If you haven't figured it out, yet, sport, I have figured you out.
You're on the wrong team. You and I have nothing else to talk about
until you repent.
Because I support Joel Osteen, Jason Gastrich and I disagree with you?
And I'm not holding my breath on that one.
And to answer you IN PART for the benefit of OTHERS, I have said
REPEATEDLY that I only took 1st year (half electives) at 2 different
seminaries.
As for my grades, ask someone else. I have posted that NUMEROUS times;
I am sure someone has them.
Were they all F's?
You tell the whole group something I told you in confidence, then you
insult me, and NOW you expect us to go on as if nothing had happened?
Are you crazy?
We know who is crazy, and it ain't BJ!
jw
Intro to Chr Theology is where they teach systematic/biblical theology
which entails Calvinism and Arminism. Some profs focus more on
systematic theology, while others more on biblical, and yet others blend
the two. There is a disctinction between theology courses and biblical
courses, if a prof focuses purely on historical systematic theology.
I ask you this John because it appears that you do not fully understand
Calvinism.
And I find most Calvinists are so hide-bound, so blind as bats
spiritually, that they / you have LITTLE/NO understanding of the
IMPLICATIONS of what Calvin taught.
Yo are likely an EXCELLENT example of that.
JW you need mental help. Please get it.
I am WELL aware that I need help, and I am in therapy.
I suggest you do the same.
You MOCK Christianity with virtually every post.
You hypocritical PHONEY!!
jw
John
jw
'Bible' John is NOT a Christian. Although I don't agree with a lot of
jw's ways of responding to people, I can see that he is trying to deal
with his limitations. 'Bible' John might do well, to seek help, also.
Thanks, RAS.
And I will say again, I admit openly that one of my problems as a
bi-polar is that I simply do not "get people." I also insist that I
am not going to hide in a corner somewhere.
I try to contribute, and I simply ask the "mature, adult, sane,
rational" to bear with me, cut me some slack, and try to scrape off
the "crud" in my remarks and dig out the gems.
I KNOW I am abrasive. But I am also honest. My mom used to say, I
may not be very nice sometimes (a lot), but at least -- with me -- you
know what I think, and you know where you stand.
Spiritually, I fall back on two of my favorite hymns:
Just as I am..
Jesus loves me.
jw
RAS
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| User: "galia" |
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| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
04 Sep 2005 07:45:50 AM |
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"jw" <wjohn1134@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:5m7lh19burraoibuiofehnlr3ac69jh3h3@4ax.com...
| x-no-archive: yes
| On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:33:00 -0400, RAS <rstrub@rocketmail.com> wrote:
| copyright 2005 all rights reserved; no portion of this may be used
| without expressed written consent of the author.
| >'Bible' John is NOT a Christian. Although I don't agree with a lot of
| >jw's ways of responding to people, I can see that he is trying to deal
| >with his limitations. 'Bible' John might do well, to seek help, also.
|
| Thanks, RAS.
|
| And I will say again, I admit openly that one of my problems as a
| bi-polar is that I simply do not "get people." I also insist that I
| am not going to hide in a corner somewhere.
You ain't bi-polar; you suffer from NPD!
Anybody with a brain and some time for research will see the connection
..
You simply don't get people, because you make no efforts; it's all about
YOU!
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| I try to contribute, and I simply ask the "mature, adult, sane,
| rational" to bear with me, cut me some slack, and try to scrape off
| the "crud" in my remarks and dig out the gems.
I am aware that there are many fake gems and stones on the market
that can fool the untrained eye.
|
| I KNOW I am abrasive. But I am also honest. My mom used to say, I
| may not be very nice sometimes (a lot), but at least -- with me -- you
| know what I think, and you know where you stand.
You are everything BUT honest...
|
| Spiritually, I fall back on two of my favorite hymns:
|
| Just as I am..
|
| Jesus loves me.
How convenient.. but only for a season!
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| User: "j-w" |
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| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
05 Sep 2005 12:07:54 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:45:50 -0400, "galia" <galia@somewhere.com>
wrote:
copyright 2005 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of
this may be used elsewhere without expressed written consent of the
author.
"jw" <wjohn1134@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:5m7lh19burraoibuiofehnlr3ac69jh3h3@4ax.com...
| x-no-archive: yes
| On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:33:00 -0400, RAS <rstrub@rocketmail.com> wrote:
| copyright 2005 all rights reserved; no portion of this may be used
| without expressed written consent of the author.
| >'Bible' John is NOT a Christian. Although I don't agree with a lot of
| >jw's ways of responding to people, I can see that he is trying to deal
| >with his limitations. 'Bible' John might do well, to seek help, also.
|
| Thanks, RAS.
|
| And I will say again, I admit openly that one of my problems as a
| bi-polar is that I simply do not "get people." I also insist that I
| am not going to hide in a corner somewhere.
You ain't bi-polar;
And you are not a psychiatrist.
jw
snip
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: John Weatherly what was your grades in Theology? |
05 Sep 2005 07:44:12 PM |
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"j-w @yo.ho>" <jw<no> wrote in message
news:fquoh19gjb9qbuv464ql9dlfjn6m9uoago@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:45:50 -0400, "galia" <galia@somewhere.com>
wrote:
copyright 2005 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of
this may be used elsewhere without expressed written consent of the
author.
"jw" <wjohn1134@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:5m7lh19burraoibuiofehnlr3ac69jh3h3@4ax.com...
| x-no-archive: yes
| On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:33:00 -0400, RAS <rstrub@rocketmail.com> wrote:
| copyright 2005 all rights reserved; no portion of this may be used
| without expressed written consent of the author.
| >'Bible' John is NOT a Christian. Although I don't agree with a lot of
| >jw's ways of responding to people, I can see that he is trying to deal
| >with his limitations. 'Bible' John might do well, to seek help, also.
|
| Thanks, RAS.
|
| And I will say again, I admit openly that one of my problems as a
| bi-polar is that I simply do not "get people." I also insist that I
| am not going to hide in a corner somewhere.
You ain't bi-polar;
And you are not a psychiatrist.
Is this the real jw?
If so, what's with the nym-shifting? Trying to evade killfiles? Again?
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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