| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Slade Farney" |
| Date: |
01 Jun 2004 02:45:51 AM |
| Object: |
Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
"bushbadee" <bushbadee@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<RZLtc.1765$oh7.1714@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...
"Riain Barton" <riain@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:lDHtc.12082$dn1.1389@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
For 2,000 years, Jews have rejected the Christian idea of Jesus as
messiah.
Why?
It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus. The purpose
is not to disparage other religions, but rather to clarify the Jewish
position. The more data that's available, the better-informed choices
people can make about their spiritual path.
Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because: ...
Good post Riain but you miss one cogent point.
They reject him because he did not exist.
People seldom examine closely Jewish religious and political
arguments. This is because Jewish thought is anti-logical, supremely
inconsistent, and extremely hard to understand. Jews will argue both
sides of the same question without ever acknowledging the paradox.
This is often baffling to observers, and too often Westerners try to
ignore the problem. But it is very much there, and it is very much at
the heart of the Judaic thought process. Embracing the paradox is
essential to much of Judaism.
For example, consider the subject of Jesus. Jews will argue (as
elsewhere in this thread) that Jesus was a Jew, a trained rabbi, and
all His teachings are in accord with Judaic thought. Even where Jesus
told the Pharisees that there was no truth in them and they were sons
of the devil -- that argument too was completely in line with the
logic of the Talmud, which argues and affirms all sides of every
question.
Then (as above), Jews will argue that Jesus did not even exist. Such
a miracle: Jesus did not exist, but He was a Jew! Just for variation,
sometimes they affirm that Jesus maybe existed, but he was really
somebody else with the same name.
But this love of paradox is embodied in the Talmud, the religious
scriptures of Judaism. In her penetrating and revealing essay,
"Critical Words of Talmud Study", Carol Valentine examines those
qualities of Talmudic thought as no one else has dared. It is a
shocking truth that Americans (both Christians and Muslims) cannot
afford to ignore. Even many Jews would be appalled to learn about
Judaism's heart of darkness, the intellectual midnight of the modern
world.
See "Critical Words of Talmud Study", and the follow-on essays for
insight into the religion that hopes to rule the world.
http://come-and-hear.com/editor/critwords_1.html
"Critical Words of Talmud Study — The Talmud's internal logic and
vocabulary explained by the rabbis. Why was the Talmud inaccessible to
Western Man for so long? Subjects covered: Exegesis, Pharisee,
Pentateuch, Midrash, Torah, Idolater, Divine Law, and Halachah /
Halakha."
--Slade
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| User: "Joebruno" |
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| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
01 Jun 2004 08:55:45 PM |
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(Slade Farney) wrote in message news:<abe991f.0405312345.701cfe78@posting.google.com>...
"bushbadee" <bushbadee@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<RZLtc.1765$oh7.1714@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...
"Riain Barton" <riain@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:lDHtc.12082$dn1.1389@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
For 2,000 years, Jews have rejected the Christian idea of Jesus as
messiah.
Why?
It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus. The purpose
is not to disparage other religions, but rather to clarify the Jewish
position. The more data that's available, the better-informed choices
people can make about their spiritual path.
Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because: ...
Good post Riain but you miss one cogent point.
They reject him because he did not exist.
People seldom examine closely Jewish religious and political
arguments. This is because Jewish thought is anti-logical, supremely
inconsistent, and extremely hard to understand. Jews will argue both
sides of the same question without ever acknowledging the paradox.
This is often baffling to observers, and too often Westerners try to
ignore the problem. But it is very much there, and it is very much at
the heart of the Judaic thought process. Embracing the paradox is
essential to much of Judaism.
For example, consider the subject of Jesus. Jews will argue (as
elsewhere in this thread) that Jesus was a Jew, a trained rabbi, and
all His teachings are in accord with Judaic thought.
He claimed to be the Son of God, a violation of Judaism's most
important commandment.
Even where Jesus
told the Pharisees that there was no truth in them and they were sons
of the devil -- that argument too was completely in line with the
logic of the Talmud, which argues and affirms all sides of every
question.
Then (as above), Jews will argue that Jesus did not even exist.
Jews are individuals who have individual ideas. My view of Judaism is
that it's strictly a religion, while other Jews claim it depends on
who your mother is.
Some claim Abraham was a Jew, but the rabbi I know says Judaism did
not even exist until 1321 BC. One of Judaism's most attractive
qualities is that it allows discussion of different ideas. There is no
Pope in Judaism to tell everyone what the faith is.
Such
a miracle: Jesus did not exist, but He was a Jew!
When does the same person say both of these things?Proof?
Just for variation,
sometimes they affirm that Jesus maybe existed, but he was really
somebody else with the same name.
I've never heard this one.
But this love of paradox is embodied in the Talmud, the religious
scriptures of Judaism. In her penetrating and revealing essay,
"Critical Words of Talmud Study", Carol Valentine examines those
qualities of Talmudic thought as no one else has dared. It is a
shocking truth that Americans (both Christians and Muslims) cannot
afford to ignore. Even many Jews would be appalled to learn about
Judaism's heart of darkness, the intellectual midnight of the modern
world.
Judaism is a FAITH! It's a matter of belief, not a matter of logic and
provable facts. Even the Catholics have things they call "mysteries of
faith". The Talmud was not written by one person, but added to by many
with different ideas.
See "Critical Words of Talmud Study", and the follow-on essays for
insight into the religion that hopes to rule the world.
http://come-and-hear.com/editor/critwords_1.html
"Critical Words of Talmud Study ? The Talmud's internal logic and
vocabulary explained by the rabbis. Why was the Talmud inaccessible to
Western Man for so long?
What do you mean by "Western man"? American Jews read the Talmud and
they are certainly westerners. British Jews read the Talmud. French
Jews read the Talmud.
The Talmud was not available in English until late in the 20th
century. The Talmud comprises 8 volumes and over 15,000 pages, so
translations take time. Jews with a Jewish education learn to read
Hebrew and some learn Aramaic.I don't like services in English. I like
the Hebrew.
The Catholic mass was in Latin until the 1960s. Can you understand
Latin? Do you think the Catholics were hiding something?
Have you ever heard the term "liturgical language"?
Shakespeare wrote a play called "Much Ado about Nothing". I think he
knew you were coming.
.
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| User: "Slade Farney" |
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| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 01:39:13 AM |
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(Joebruno) wrote in message news:<bf3896a1.0406011755.7efc17ca@posting.google.com>...
sfarney@bigfoot.com (Slade Farney) wrote in message news:<abe991f.0405312345.701cfe78@posting.google.com>...
"bushbadee" <bushbadee@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<RZLtc.1765$oh7.1714@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...
"Riain Barton" <riain@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:lDHtc.12082$dn1.1389@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
For 2,000 years, Jews have rejected the Christian idea of Jesus as
messiah.
Why?
It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus. The
purpose is not to disparage other religions, but rather to clarify the
Jewish position. The more data that's available, the better-informed
choices people can make about their spiritual path.
Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because: ...
Good post Riain but you miss one cogent point.
They reject him because he did not exist.
People seldom examine closely Jewish religious and political
arguments. This is because Jewish thought is anti-logical, supremely
inconsistent, and extremely hard to understand. Jews will argue both
sides of the same question without ever acknowledging the paradox.
This is often baffling to observers, and too often Westerners try to
ignore the problem. But it is very much there, and it is very much at
the heart of the Judaic thought process. Embracing the paradox is
essential to much of Judaism.
For example, consider the subject of Jesus. Jews will argue (as
elsewhere in this thread) that Jesus was a Jew, a trained rabbi, and
all His teachings are in accord with Judaic thought.
He claimed to be the Son of God, a violation of Judaism's most
important commandment.
You cannot validate that statement with New Testament scripture,
except in the most general sense that Jesus said that God is the
Father of all people. Others claimed that for Jesus, but He did not.
Jesus, as quoted in the NT, never claimed to be more than the "Son of
Man".
But let us take your statement as an equal authority to the Gospel
writers. If Jesus was a Jew and He claimed to be The Son of God, He
was violating "God's" "most important commandment" -- obviously
something The Son of God would never do. Therefore, Jesus was either
nuttier and more illogical than your average Talmud student -- or he
was not a Talmud student and (are you ready for this?)
-- NOT A WORSHIPER OF THE JEWISH GOD and therefore
-- NOT A JEW.
Even where Jesus
told the Pharisees that there was no truth in them and they were sons
of the devil -- that argument too was completely in line with the
logic of the Talmud, which argues and affirms all sides of every
question.
Then (as above), Jews will argue that Jesus did not even exist.
Jews are individuals who have individual ideas. My view of Judaism is
that it's strictly a religion, while other Jews claim it depends on
who your mother is.
Some claim Abraham was a Jew, but the rabbi I know says Judaism did
not even exist until 1321 BC. One of Judaism's most attractive
qualities is that it allows discussion of different ideas. There is no
Pope in Judaism to tell everyone what the faith is.
Thus, the Jews have no problem naming their months after the
Babylonian Gods, worshiping the almighty En Sof, numbering the hours
with numerology, and telling fortunes with astrology. No wonder the
Jews believe in nature demons, flocks of angels, and Sophirim who work
like the demi-deities of the Hindus.
This is because Judaism is all just a matter of individual opinion.
But hey. If you step out of line, they stone you (like St. Stephen),
burn you (like the priests of Balaam), drop you through a crack in the
earth (like Korah), crucify you (like Jesus), hack you to bits with
farm implements (like King David did to the Canaanites), cut you down
with swords (as Joshua did), or cut off your head (as proscribed for
Christians who do not renounce Jesus). And I haven't named even half
of the options.
Of course not all Jews do that. But each Jew must do as he thinks
best, which means slaughtering the Gentiles in accordance to the
Jehovah Commandment that seems like the best idea at the time.
It's a very libertarian world: Murder the Gentiles as your own
conscience dictates, and no rabbi will ever call you wrong because
Freedom of Religion is a basic premise of Judaism.
Have I got it right yet?
--Slade
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| User: "Joebruno" |
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| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 08:06:38 AM |
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(Slade Farney) wrote in message news:<abe991f.0406012239.73216917@posting.google.com>...
bruno@indystart.com (Joebruno) wrote in message news:<bf3896a1.0406011755.7efc17ca@posting.google.com>...
(Slade Farney) wrote in message news:<abe991f.0405312345.701cfe78@posting.google.com>...
"bushbadee" <bushbadee@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<RZLtc.1765$oh7.1714@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...
"Riain Barton" <riain@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:lDHtc.12082$dn1.1389@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
For 2,000 years, Jews have rejected the Christian idea of Jesus as
messiah.
Why?
It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus. The
purpose is not to disparage other religions, but rather to clarify the
Jewish position. The more data that's available, the better-informed
choices people can make about their spiritual path.
Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because: ...
Good post Riain but you miss one cogent point.
They reject him because he did not exist.
People seldom examine closely Jewish religious and political
arguments. This is because Jewish thought is anti-logical, supremely
inconsistent, and extremely hard to understand. Jews will argue both
sides of the same question without ever acknowledging the paradox.
This is often baffling to observers, and too often Westerners try to
ignore the problem. But it is very much there, and it is very much at
the heart of the Judaic thought process. Embracing the paradox is
essential to much of Judaism.
For example, consider the subject of Jesus. Jews will argue (as
elsewhere in this thread) that Jesus was a Jew, a trained rabbi, and
all His teachings are in accord with Judaic thought.
He claimed to be the Son of God, a violation of Judaism's most
important commandment.
You cannot validate that statement with New Testament scripture,
except in the most general sense that Jesus said that God is the
Father of all people. Others claimed that for Jesus, but He did not.
Jesus, as quoted in the NT, never claimed to be more than the "Son of
Man".
But let us take your statement as an equal authority to the Gospel
writers. If Jesus was a Jew and He claimed to be The Son of God, He
was violating "God's" "most important commandment" -- obviously
something The Son of God would never do. Therefore, Jesus was either
nuttier and more illogical than your average Talmud student -- or he
was not a Talmud student and (are you ready for this?)
-- NOT A WORSHIPER OF THE JEWISH GOD and therefore
-- NOT A JEW.
Even where Jesus
told the Pharisees that there was no truth in them and they were sons
of the devil -- that argument too was completely in line with the
logic of the Talmud, which argues and affirms all sides of every
question.
Then (as above), Jews will argue that Jesus did not even exist.
Jews are individuals who have individual ideas. My view of Judaism is
that it's strictly a religion, while other Jews claim it depends on
who your mother is.
Some claim Abraham was a Jew, but the rabbi I know says Judaism did
not even exist until 1321 BC. One of Judaism's most attractive
qualities is that it allows discussion of different ideas. There is no
Pope in Judaism to tell everyone what the faith is.
Thus, the Jews have no problem naming their months after the
Babylonian Gods, worshiping the almighty En Sof, numbering the hours
with numerology, and telling fortunes with astrology.
There you go again, labelling all Jews as some do. There are Jews who
believe in such mysticism, but they are a small minority.
No wonder the
Jews believe in nature demons,
I don't know any who do. You are making rash generalizations, again.
flocks of angels, and Sophirim who work
like the demi-deities of the Hindus.
This is because Judaism is all just a matter of individual opinion.
No, it isn't. There is doctrine in the Torah, but there is also room
for discussion on items which are not specifically stated there.
But hey. If you step out of line, they stone you (like St. Stephen),
burn you (like the priests of Balaam), drop you through a crack in the
earth (like Korah), crucify you (like Jesus), hack you to bits with
farm implements (like King David did to the Canaanites), cut you down
with swords (as Joshua did), or cut off your head (as proscribed for
Christians who do not renounce Jesus). And I haven't named even half
of the options.
They don't do that anymore. Back in ancient times, there was not the
respect for human life that we have today. The idea of human rights is
a product of the 18th Century.
Of course not all Jews do that. But each Jew must do as he thinks
best, which means slaughtering the Gentiles in accordance to the
Jehovah Commandment that seems like the best idea at the time.
Neither I nor any other Jews I know ever advocated that.
It's a very libertarian world: Murder the Gentiles as your own
conscience dictates, and no rabbi will ever call you wrong because
Freedom of Religion is a basic premise of Judaism.
Judaism requires us to obey the laws of the country in which we live.
Have I got it right yet?
You never had it right. You're a bigot who distorts things to fit his
agenda of hatred.You don't listen. You just babble and put words in
people's mouths. If you listen closely, you will hear people laughing
at you, Gentiles as well as Jews.
You don't realize that it is not necessary for me to get your
agreement on anything. Exposing your bigotry, lies, and ignorance to
others is my mission, and you give me lots of help. It's all down in
writing for everyone to see.
Next case.
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| User: "Slade Farney" |
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| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 11:11:36 PM |
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(Joebruno) wrote in message news:<bf3896a1.0406020506.3f1350b8@posting.google.com>...
sfarney@bigfoot.com (Slade Farney) wrote in message news:<abe991f.0406012239.73216917@posting.google.com>...
... If you step out of line, [the Jews] stone you (like St. Stephen),
burn you (like the priests of Balaam), drop you through a crack in the
earth (like Korah), crucify you (like Jesus), hack you to bits with
farm implements (like King David did to the Canaanites), cut you down
with swords (as Joshua did), or cut off your head (as prescribed for
Christians who do not renounce Jesus). And I haven't named even half
of the options.
They don't do that anymore. Back in ancient times, there was not the
respect for human life that we have today. The idea of human rights is
a product of the 18th Century.
The *idea* of human rights ???!! Wait a minute. As a Jew, you
represent a religion that pretends to be leading Man our of barbarism
and into communion with G-d. I have just cited a dozen cases in which
the G-d of Judaism actually instigated barbarism among the Hebrews and
the Jews. If you want more examples, check out "In His Own Image" at
http://come-and-hear.com/supplement/ot-select.html
Now you tell me that, without a prophet or messiah on a mission from
Jehovah, the "idea of human rights is a product of the 18th Century."
Just what seems to be the problem in that Synagogue of yours? Jehovah
doesn't think human rights are important?
"They don't do that anymore," you say. If your Jehovah can reveal his
eternal wisdom about which fish are appropriate for dinner, couldn't
he mention something about the value of human life?
Excuse me, but I take issue with a religion so barbaric, the main
villain in the piece is the deity himself.
"As you do unto the least of these, so do ye unto me," said Jesus.
Long before the rabbis debated the the finer points of pouring molten
lead down a man's throat while he stands buried to the armpits in
dung, Jesus was preaching forgiveness and the value of the individual
life for its own sake.
Jesus was a away ahead of Jehovah in that department by almost 1,900
years, according to your reckoning.
Given his past record of achievment, how long do you think it will be
before Jehovah "invents" the microchip? The latex condom? The
Scientific Method?
--Slade
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| User: "Michael ONeill" |
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| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 09:33:48 AM |
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Slade Farney wrote:
If you step out of line, they stone you (like St. Stephen),
burn you (like the priests of Balaam), drop you through a crack in the
earth (like Korah), crucify you (like Jesus),
<snip>
The Jews didn't crucify Jesus. To assert that they did is rather an odd error to make in a pseudo
liturgical thread like this one.
Haven't you read your bible?
Don't you KNOW who crucified Jesus?
If not, you're about 2,000 years behind the times.
M.
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| User: "Michael ONeill" |
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| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 09:34:29 AM |
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Michael O'Neill wrote:
Slade Farney wrote:
If you step out of line, they stone you (like St. Stephen),
burn you (like the priests of Balaam), drop you through a crack in the
earth (like Korah), crucify you (like Jesus),
<snip>
The Jews didn't crucify Jesus. To assert that they did is rather an odd error to make in a pseudo
liturgical thread like this one.
Haven't you read your bible?
Don't you KNOW who crucified Jesus?
If not, you're about 2,000 years behind the times.
M.
It wasn't Al-Q'ida either.
M.
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| User: "Ward Cleaver" |
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| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 11:27:33 AM |
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On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 15:33:48 +0100, <40BDE54C.8E9881B5@indigo.ie> Michael
O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote:
Slade Farney wrote:
If you step out of line, they stone you (like St. Stephen),
burn you (like the priests of Balaam), drop you through a crack in the
earth (like Korah), crucify you (like Jesus),
<snip>
The Jews didn't crucify Jesus.
FALSE!!!
To assert that they did is rather an odd error to make in a pseudo liturgical thread
like this one.
Haven't you read your bible?
I have and Jews were the ones the Bible states as having Jesus murdered.
Don't you KNOW who crucified Jesus?
JEWS!!
If not, you're about 2,000 years behind the times.
You're the one behind times!!
I.E.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=5rhktv483m9oofgqt8goir93o4pm08ht49%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: 3 Major Jewish Organizations Engage in Holocaust Denial...
Message-ID: <5rhktv483m9oofgqt8goir93o4pm08ht49@4ax.com>
Date: 12 Dec 2003 22:57:48 GMT
If Jews are allowed to call a historic event a "Holocaust" based on Jews being
tortured, imprisoned, and executed by Nazis then why can't Christians claim Jews
had "Holocausts" against non-Jews/Christians seeing how the 1st Century
Pharisees and the 20th Century Jewish led Bolshevists tortured, imprisoned, and
executed Christians/non-Jews. Jews also deny these other "Holocausts" so going
by their standards they are "Holocaust Deniers" and should be prosecuted for
Holocaust Denial"and "Minimalizing the Holocaust[s])" as well!
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=1i7810p7itigphaaq2aogggv9r7mjlgeo4@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Post-Soviet Religion (What Communists did to Christians) V2.0a S_0125
Message-ID: <1i7810p7itigphaaq2aogggv9r7mjlgeo4@4ax.com>
Date: 25 Jan 2004 19:53:30 GMT
EXCERPT
http://bnaibrith.org/pr/03Aug27_Gibson.cfm
(Link active September 23, 2003. Archived locally as: 03Aug27_Gibson)
Excerpt
BBI Asks Vatican to Denounce Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
August 20, 2003
Archbishop Gabriel Montalvo
Apostolic Nuncio
Embassy of the Vatican in Washington, DC
3339 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20008
Dear Archibishop Montalvo:
In the spirit of interfaith cooperation, we appeal for your support
on a pressing issue of concern. As you know, Mel Gibson’s soon-to-be-released
film “The Passion” has alarmed Christians and Jews because of scenes that
reportedly revive the canard of Jewish culpability for the crucifixion of
Jesus.
For generations, the deicide slander forced unspeakable suffering on Jews
and nurtured a virulent anti-Semitism that would eventually result in the
Holocaust...
Sincerely,
Joel S. Kaplan
International President
Daniel S. Mariaschin
Executive Vice President
<END>
But B'nai Brith-- Jews do have "culpability for the crucifixion of Jesus" and
the Bible plainly states so and has for nearly 2000 years! Here is the Bible
totally refuting your denial and your words: ".. revive the canard of Jewish
culpability for the crucifixion of Jesus. For generations, the deicide slander
forced unspeakable suffering on Jews.."
Jesus himself foretold who would have greater sin (or culpability) for his death
and he plainly stated to Pilate: "therefore he who delivered me to you has the
greater sin." Who delivered Jesus to Pilate and therefore has the greater sin?
Answer: JEWS!
John 19:6-16 (English-RSV)
6 When the chief priests and the officers saw him, they cried out,
"Crucify him, crucify him!" Pilate said to them, "Take him yourselves
and crucify him, for I find no crime in him."
7 The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law he ought to
die, because he has made himself the Son of God."
8 When Pilate heard these words, he was the more afraid;
9 he entered the praetorium again and said to Jesus, "Where are you
from?" But Jesus gave no answer.
10 Pilate therefore said to him, "You will not speak to me? Do you not
know that I have power to release you, and power to crucify you?"
11 Jesus answered him, "You would have no power over me unless it had
been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has
the greater sin."
Pilate also confirmed it was Jews who delivered Jesus to him in earlier
scripture:
John 18: (English-RSV)
28 Then they led Jesus from the house of Ca'iaphas to the praetorium.
It was early. They themselves did not enter the praetorium, so that
they might not be defiled, but might eat the passover.
29 So Pilate went out to them and said, "What accusation do you bring
against this man?"
30 They answered him, "If this man were not an evildoer, we would not
have handed him over."
31 Pilate said to them, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own
law." The Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put any man to
death."
32 This was to fulfil the word which Jesus had spoken to show by what
death he was to die.
33 Pilate entered the praetorium again and called Jesus, and said to
him, "Are you the King of the Jews?"
34 Jesus answered, "Do you say this of your own accord, or did others
say it to you about me?"
35 Pilate answered, "Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests
have handed you over to me...
The Apostle Peter also confirms who delivered Jesus up to be executed:
Acts 3:12-15 :: King James Version
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why
marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power
or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers,
hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the
presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be
granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof
we are witnesses.
The Jews, themselves, admitted they handed Jesus over to Pilate:
John 18: (English-RSV)
29 So Pilate went out to them and said, "What accusation do you bring
against this man?"
30 They answered him, "If this man were not an evildoer, we would not
have handed him over."
31 Pilate said to them, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own
law." The Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put any man to
death."
Key words were: "we would not have handed him over."
The Apostle Paul plainly states who killed Jesus:
1 Thessalonians 2:14,15 (English-NIV):
14 For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea,
which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the
same things those churches suffered from the Jews,
15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out.
They displease God and are hostile to all men.
Notice the fine points made by the Apostle Paul in this little bit of
scripture!
He brought out in two verses:
1) " those churches suffered from the Jews" Those sweet harmless
little Jews were committing "hate crimes" against Christians!
2) "the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus"
3) "They displease God.." The Temple is still in ruins as a testament
to that fact! Undeniable wouldn't you say? And last BUT certainly not
least by any stretch of the imagination:
4) "They (Jews) are hostile to all men."
Disciple Stephen testifies: "Which one of the prophets did your forefathers not
persecute? Yes, they killed those who made announcement in advance concerning
the coming of the righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers YOU have become."
Acts 7: 52 This was from the speech Stephen gave the Jews about all of their
transgressions just before he (Stephen) got stoned to death by Jews who could
not contradict what he was telling them. Jews have quite a Biblical record as
killing people or having them harassed by government when their sins, hypocrisy,
and evil are held up to their faces!
I.E.
Acts 6:8-12 (English-KJV)
8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles
among the people.
9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue
of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia
and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.
10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he
spake.
11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak
blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.
12 And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and
came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council...
Acts 7:1, 51-58 (English-KJV)
1 Then said the high priest, Are these things so?
(History of Jews transgressions against G-d deleted for brevity. Tavish)
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist
the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have
slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye
have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not
kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and
they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven,
and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on
the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran
upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him:....
From the above passages we learn:
a) [T]here arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue
of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia
and of Asia, disputing with Stephen
b) Stephen "spoke things they couldn't refute" as recorded with the words:
"they were not able to resist the wisdom.."
c) The Pharisees then: "stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one
accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him...."
d) Stephen blamed the Pharisaic Jews of the synagogue for the death of Jesus.
Going back to the Bible regarding the culpability of Jews for Jesus' death:
Matthew 27:20,24,25 (English-RSV)
20 Now the chief priests and the elders persuaded the people to ask
for Barab'bas and destroy Jesus.
24 So when Pilate saw that he was gaining nothing, but rather that a
riot was beginning, he took water and washed his hands before the
crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this man's blood; see to it
yourselves."
25 And all the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our
children!"
Who were "the chief priests and the elders persuad[ing] the people to ask
for Barab'bas and destroy Jesus"? Answer: JEWS!! Who said: ""His blood be
on us and on our children!"? Answer: JEWS!!
As for B'nai Brith's words: ".. revive the canard of Jewish culpability for the
crucifixion of Jesus. For generations, the deicide slander forced unspeakable
suffering on Jews.."-- The Bible shows you for the evil Child of the Devil you
are! JEWS DO HAVE CULPABILITY FOR THE CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS AND IT ISN'T "DEICIDE
SLANDER" BECAUSE IT IS TRUE JEWS KILLED JESUS!!
End of Excerpt
Care toremain in denial now Belial?
Tavish
M.
How First Century Christianity Was Treated by Jews:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=m1p5nv4es86j78p5dr5pe41l8pi3vfcst0%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: UPDATED The Most Heinous Murder Plot Ever Devised (For Your Archives &
Research) V2.5 R_0925
Message-ID: <m1p5nv4es86j78p5dr5pe41l8pi3vfcst0@4ax.com>
Date: 25 Sep 2003 13:23:49 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=k11ucvc1j4hl6s7av6qpr9882esa96oaav%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Babylon the Great - Religious Persecution, Torture, Harassment R_0524
Message-ID: <k11ucvc1j4hl6s7av6qpr9882esa96oaav@4ax.com>
Date: 24 May 2003 05:30:17 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=i31ucv4nvr6ehh6r2jgq8d7orrpfhm3j09%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: The Apostle Paul on Judaized Jews R_0524
Message-ID: <i31ucv4nvr6ehh6r2jgq8d7orrpfhm3j09@4ax.com>
Date: 24 May 2003 05:30:25 GMT
The first "Holocaust" was not Gentiles (Nazis) Against Jews
BUT was Jews (Communists) Against Christian Kulaks!!!
How Later Christianity was/is treated by Jews:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=upe9kvor1pdvm2ifa8sfa0qfboa6ull055%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Comparing Israel's "Anti-Christ Activism" to Other Middle East Nations
is NOT a Valid Comparison V2.5 R_0821
Message-ID: <upe9kvor1pdvm2ifa8sfa0qfboa6ull055@4ax.com>
Date: 21 Aug 2003 12:22:34 GMT
Jewish Led Bolsheviks Scalped & Crucified Christians by Philippa Fletcher
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=34c17d0f.1410012285%40news.smart1.net&rnum=7
Subject: Bolsheviks Scalped and Crucified Christians -
Date: 1998/01/18
Message-ID: <34c17d0f.1410012285@news.smart1.net>
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=1i7810p7itigphaaq2aogggv9r7mjlgeo4@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Post-Soviet Religion (What Communists did to Christians) V2.0a S_0125
Message-ID: <1i7810p7itigphaaq2aogggv9r7mjlgeo4@4ax.com>
Date: 25 Jan 2004 19:53:30 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=u626vv814v0dt9raqv17ede0h4536l51ag%404ax.com&rnum=10&filter=0
Subject: V3.0e Forefathers of the Soviet State and Anti-Christ Communism R_1231
Message-ID: <u626vv814v0dt9raqv17ede0h4536l51ag@4ax.com>
Date: 31 Dec 2003 17:34:02 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=ncu5gvoc1nga0k933sgt0sbtglrv1nlb4e%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Communist Holocaust Has Killed Over 100 Million People
Message-ID: <ncu5gvoc1nga0k933sgt0sbtglrv1nlb4e@4ax.com>
Date: 2 Jul 2003 15:33:38 GMT
Holocausts Jews have waged against non-Jews and Jewish denial of their
Holocausts against Christians/non-Jews:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=5rhktv483m9oofgqt8goir93o4pm08ht49%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: UPDATED: 3 Major Jewish Organizations Engage in Holocaust Denial in
Addition to Their anti-Christic Christ Denial anti-Christism
Message-ID: <5rhktv483m9oofgqt8goir93o4pm08ht49@4ax.com>
Date: 12 Dec 2003 22:57:48 GMT
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
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| User: "Norma" |
|
| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 11:32:28 AM |
|
|
"Ward Cleaver" <Ward_Cleaver@mayfield.net> wrote in message
news:900sb016jqob680gt9o5sb9nn6codsrh09@4ax.com...
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 15:33:48 +0100, <40BDE54C.8E9881B5@indigo.ie> Michael
O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote:
Slade Farney wrote:
If you step out of line, they stone you (like St. Stephen),
burn you (like the priests of Balaam), drop you through a crack in the
earth (like Korah), crucify you (like Jesus),
<snip>
The Jews didn't crucify Jesus.
FALSE!!!
What is wrong with you? It was the Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus (if
it did happen). It was a Roman form of execution. The Jews had never done
any such thing. Give this up. Norma
To assert that they did is rather an odd error to make in a pseudo
liturgical thread
like this one.
Haven't you read your bible?
I have and Jews were the ones the Bible states as having Jesus murdered.
Don't you KNOW who crucified Jesus?
JEWS!!
If not, you're about 2,000 years behind the times.
You're the one behind times!!
I.E.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=5rhktv483m9oofgqt8goir93o4pm08ht49%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: 3 Major Jewish Organizations Engage in Holocaust Denial...
Message-ID: <5rhktv483m9oofgqt8goir93o4pm08ht49@4ax.com>
Date: 12 Dec 2003 22:57:48 GMT
If Jews are allowed to call a historic event a "Holocaust" based on Jews
being
tortured, imprisoned, and executed by Nazis then why can't Christians
claim Jews
had "Holocausts" against non-Jews/Christians seeing how the 1st Century
Pharisees and the 20th Century Jewish led Bolshevists tortured,
imprisoned, and
executed Christians/non-Jews. Jews also deny these other "Holocausts" so
going
by their standards they are "Holocaust Deniers" and should be prosecuted
for
Holocaust Denial"and "Minimalizing the Holocaust[s])" as well!
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=1i7810p7itigphaaq2aogggv9r7mjlgeo4@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Post-Soviet Religion (What Communists did to Christians) V2.0a
S_0125
Message-ID: <1i7810p7itigphaaq2aogggv9r7mjlgeo4@4ax.com>
Date: 25 Jan 2004 19:53:30 GMT
EXCERPT
http://bnaibrith.org/pr/03Aug27_Gibson.cfm
(Link active September 23, 2003. Archived locally as: 03Aug27_Gibson)
Excerpt
BBI Asks Vatican to Denounce Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
August 20, 2003
Archbishop Gabriel Montalvo
Apostolic Nuncio
Embassy of the Vatican in Washington, DC
3339 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20008
Dear Archibishop Montalvo:
In the spirit of interfaith cooperation, we appeal for your support
on a pressing issue of concern. As you know, Mel Gibson's
soon-to-be-released
film "The Passion" has alarmed Christians and Jews because of scenes that
reportedly revive the canard of Jewish culpability for the crucifixion of
Jesus.
For generations, the deicide slander forced unspeakable suffering on Jews
and nurtured a virulent anti-Semitism that would eventually result in the
Holocaust...
Sincerely,
Joel S. Kaplan
International President
Daniel S. Mariaschin
Executive Vice President
<END>
But B'nai Brith-- Jews do have "culpability for the crucifixion of Jesus"
and
the Bible plainly states so and has for nearly 2000 years! Here is the
Bible
totally refuting your denial and your words: ".. revive the canard of
Jewish
culpability for the crucifixion of Jesus. For generations, the deicide
slander
forced unspeakable suffering on Jews.."
Jesus himself foretold who would have greater sin (or culpability) for his
death
and he plainly stated to Pilate: "therefore he who delivered me to you has
the
greater sin." Who delivered Jesus to Pilate and therefore has the greater
sin?
Answer: JEWS!
John 19:6-16 (English-RSV)
6 When the chief priests and the officers saw him, they cried out,
"Crucify him, crucify him!" Pilate said to them, "Take him yourselves
and crucify him, for I find no crime in him."
7 The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law he ought to
die, because he has made himself the Son of God."
8 When Pilate heard these words, he was the more afraid;
9 he entered the praetorium again and said to Jesus, "Where are you
from?" But Jesus gave no answer.
10 Pilate therefore said to him, "You will not speak to me? Do you not
know that I have power to release you, and power to crucify you?"
11 Jesus answered him, "You would have no power over me unless it had
been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has
the greater sin."
Pilate also confirmed it was Jews who delivered Jesus to him in earlier
scripture:
John 18: (English-RSV)
28 Then they led Jesus from the house of Ca'iaphas to the praetorium.
It was early. They themselves did not enter the praetorium, so that
they might not be defiled, but might eat the passover.
29 So Pilate went out to them and said, "What accusation do you bring
against this man?"
30 They answered him, "If this man were not an evildoer, we would not
have handed him over."
31 Pilate said to them, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own
law." The Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put any man to
death."
32 This was to fulfil the word which Jesus had spoken to show by what
death he was to die.
33 Pilate entered the praetorium again and called Jesus, and said to
him, "Are you the King of the Jews?"
34 Jesus answered, "Do you say this of your own accord, or did others
say it to you about me?"
35 Pilate answered, "Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests
have handed you over to me...
The Apostle Peter also confirms who delivered Jesus up to be executed:
Acts 3:12-15 :: King James Version
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel,
why
marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own
power
or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our
fathers,
hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the
presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be
granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead;
whereof
we are witnesses.
The Jews, themselves, admitted they handed Jesus over to Pilate:
John 18: (English-RSV)
29 So Pilate went out to them and said, "What accusation do you bring
against this man?"
30 They answered him, "If this man were not an evildoer, we would not
have handed him over."
31 Pilate said to them, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own
law." The Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put any man to
death."
Key words were: "we would not have handed him over."
The Apostle Paul plainly states who killed Jesus:
1 Thessalonians 2:14,15 (English-NIV):
14 For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea,
which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the
same things those churches suffered from the Jews,
15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out.
They displease God and are hostile to all men.
Notice the fine points made by the Apostle Paul in this little bit of
scripture!
He brought out in two verses:
1) " those churches suffered from the Jews" Those sweet harmless
little Jews were committing "hate crimes" against Christians!
2) "the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus"
3) "They displease God.." The Temple is still in ruins as a testament
to that fact! Undeniable wouldn't you say? And last BUT certainly not
least by any stretch of the imagination:
4) "They (Jews) are hostile to all men."
Disciple Stephen testifies: "Which one of the prophets did your
forefathers not
persecute? Yes, they killed those who made announcement in advance
concerning
the coming of the righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers YOU have
become."
Acts 7: 52 This was from the speech Stephen gave the Jews about all of
their
transgressions just before he (Stephen) got stoned to death by Jews who
could
not contradict what he was telling them. Jews have quite a Biblical record
as
killing people or having them harassed by government when their sins,
hypocrisy,
and evil are held up to their faces!
I.E.
Acts 6:8-12 (English-KJV)
8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles
among the people.
9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue
of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia
and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.
10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he
spake.
11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak
blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.
12 And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and
came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council...
Acts 7:1, 51-58 (English-KJV)
1 Then said the high priest, Are these things so?
(History of Jews transgressions against G-d deleted for brevity. Tavish)
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist
the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have
slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye
have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not
kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and
they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into
heaven,
and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing
on
the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran
upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him:....
From the above passages we learn:
a) [T]here arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue
of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia
and of Asia, disputing with Stephen
b) Stephen "spoke things they couldn't refute" as recorded with the words:
"they were not able to resist the wisdom.."
c) The Pharisees then: "stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one
accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him...."
d) Stephen blamed the Pharisaic Jews of the synagogue for the death of
Jesus.
Going back to the Bible regarding the culpability of Jews for Jesus'
death:
Matthew 27:20,24,25 (English-RSV)
20 Now the chief priests and the elders persuaded the people to ask
for Barab'bas and destroy Jesus.
24 So when Pilate saw that he was gaining nothing, but rather that a
riot was beginning, he took water and washed his hands before the
crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this man's blood; see to it
yourselves."
25 And all the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our
children!"
Who were "the chief priests and the elders persuad[ing] the people to ask
for Barab'bas and destroy Jesus"? Answer: JEWS!! Who said: ""His blood be
on us and on our children!"? Answer: JEWS!!
As for B'nai Brith's words: ".. revive the canard of Jewish culpability
for the
crucifixion of Jesus. For generations, the deicide slander forced
unspeakable
suffering on Jews.."-- The Bible shows you for the evil Child of the Devil
you
are! JEWS DO HAVE CULPABILITY FOR THE CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS AND IT ISN'T
"DEICIDE
SLANDER" BECAUSE IT IS TRUE JEWS KILLED JESUS!!
End of Excerpt
Care toremain in denial now Belial?
Tavish
M.
How First Century Christianity Was Treated by Jews:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=m1p5nv4es86j78p5dr5pe41l8pi3vfcst0%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: UPDATED The Most Heinous Murder Plot Ever Devised (For Your
Archives &
Research) V2.5 R_0925
Message-ID: <m1p5nv4es86j78p5dr5pe41l8pi3vfcst0@4ax.com>
Date: 25 Sep 2003 13:23:49 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=k11ucvc1j4hl6s7av6qpr9882esa96oaav%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Babylon the Great - Religious Persecution, Torture, Harassment
R_0524
Message-ID: <k11ucvc1j4hl6s7av6qpr9882esa96oaav@4ax.com>
Date: 24 May 2003 05:30:17 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=i31ucv4nvr6ehh6r2jgq8d7orrpfhm3j09%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: The Apostle Paul on Judaized Jews R_0524
Message-ID: <i31ucv4nvr6ehh6r2jgq8d7orrpfhm3j09@4ax.com>
Date: 24 May 2003 05:30:25 GMT
The first "Holocaust" was not Gentiles (Nazis) Against Jews
BUT was Jews (Communists) Against Christian Kulaks!!!
How Later Christianity was/is treated by Jews:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=upe9kvor1pdvm2ifa8sfa0qfboa6ull055%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Comparing Israel's "Anti-Christ Activism" to Other Middle East
Nations
is NOT a Valid Comparison V2.5 R_0821
Message-ID: <upe9kvor1pdvm2ifa8sfa0qfboa6ull055@4ax.com>
Date: 21 Aug 2003 12:22:34 GMT
Jewish Led Bolsheviks Scalped & Crucified Christians by Philippa
Fletcher
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=34c17d0f.1410012285%40news.smart1.net&rnum=7
Subject: Bolsheviks Scalped and Crucified Christians -
Date: 1998/01/18
Message-ID: <34c17d0f.1410012285@news.smart1.net>
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=1i7810p7itigphaaq2aogggv9r7mjlgeo4@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Post-Soviet Religion (What Communists did to Christians) V2.0a
S_0125
Message-ID: <1i7810p7itigphaaq2aogggv9r7mjlgeo4@4ax.com>
Date: 25 Jan 2004 19:53:30 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=u626vv814v0dt9raqv17ede0h4536l51ag%404ax.com&rnum=10&filter=0
Subject: V3.0e Forefathers of the Soviet State and Anti-Christ Communism
R_1231
Message-ID: <u626vv814v0dt9raqv17ede0h4536l51ag@4ax.com>
Date: 31 Dec 2003 17:34:02 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=ncu5gvoc1nga0k933sgt0sbtglrv1nlb4e%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Communist Holocaust Has Killed Over 100 Million People
Message-ID: <ncu5gvoc1nga0k933sgt0sbtglrv1nlb4e@4ax.com>
Date: 2 Jul 2003 15:33:38 GMT
Holocausts Jews have waged against non-Jews and Jewish denial of their
Holocausts against Christians/non-Jews:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=5rhktv483m9oofgqt8goir93o4pm08ht49%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: UPDATED: 3 Major Jewish Organizations Engage in Holocaust Denial
in
Addition to Their anti-Christic Christ Denial anti-Christism
Message-ID: <5rhktv483m9oofgqt8goir93o4pm08ht49@4ax.com>
Date: 12 Dec 2003 22:57:48 GMT
____________________________________________________________________________
___
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 -
http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source
<><><><><><><><>
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|
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|
| User: "westprog" |
|
| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
04 Jun 2004 07:58:49 AM |
|
|
"Norma" <norma2339@charter.net> wrote in message
news:10bs08ps2htdk2c@corp.supernews.com...
....
The Apostle Peter also confirms who delivered Jesus up to be executed:
That would be the Jewish Apostle Peter. Something he had in common with all
the Apostles.
J/
SOTW: "Shake Some Action" - The Flaming Groovies
.
|
|
|
| User: "Norma" |
|
| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
05 Jun 2004 09:54:37 AM |
|
|
"westprog" <westprog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:NOiwc.1459$Z14.1472@news.indigo.ie...
"Norma" <norma2339@charter.net> wrote in message
news:10bs08ps2htdk2c@corp.supernews.com...
...
The Apostle Peter also confirms who delivered Jesus up to be executed:
That would be the Jewish Apostle Peter. Something he had in common with
all
the Apostles.
Please remove my name rather than making it look as if you are responding to
me. I said nothing about Peter. Norma
J/
SOTW: "Shake Some Action" - The Flaming Groovies
.
|
|
|
| User: "westprog" |
|
| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
05 Jun 2004 12:19:07 PM |
|
|
"Norma" <norma2339@charter.net> wrote in message
news:10c3nl126cmn707@corp.supernews.com...
didn't say
The Apostle Peter also confirms who delivered Jesus up to be
executed:
that was someone else.
That would be the Jewish Apostle Peter. Something he had in common with
all
the Apostles.
Please remove my name rather than making it look as if you are responding
to
me. I said nothing about Peter. Norma
Sorry, I had killfiled the lunatic, so I only saw it in a quoted form.
J/
SOTW: "Shake Some Action" - The Flaming Groovies
.
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|
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| User: "Michael ONeill" |
|
| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 11:31:14 AM |
|
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Norma wrote:
"Ward Cleaver" <Ward_Cleaver@mayfield.net> wrote in message
news:900sb016jqob680gt9o5sb9nn6codsrh09@4ax.com...
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 15:33:48 +0100, <40BDE54C.8E9881B5@indigo.ie> Michael
O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote:
Slade Farney wrote:
If you step out of line, they stone you (like St. Stephen),
burn you (like the priests of Balaam), drop you through a crack in the
earth (like Korah), crucify you (like Jesus),
<snip>
The Jews didn't crucify Jesus.
FALSE!!!
What is wrong with you? It was the Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus (if
it did happen). It was a Roman form of execution. The Jews had never done
any such thing. Give this up. Norma
Thank you Norma, for supplying the obvious comment to this idiotic TROLL.
I was raised a catholic and even *I* know that much.
M.
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| User: "Ward Cleaver" |
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| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 12:24:51 PM |
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On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:32:28 -0600, <10bs08ps2htdk2c@corp.supernews.com> "Norma"
<norma2339@charter.net> wrote:
FALSE!!!
What is wrong with you?
Nothing!
It was the Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus (if it did happen).
It was a Roman form of execution. The Jews had never done
any such thing. Give this up. Norma
Who does the Bible hold responsible for Jesus' murder?
Hint:
-- The Apostle Paul says much about Pharisaic Jews in two Bible scriptures:
1 Thessalonians 2:14,15 (English-NIV):
14 For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea,
which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the
same things those churches suffered from the Jews,
15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out.
They displease God and are hostile to all men.
Notice the fine points made by the Apostle Paul in just
two verses of scripture!
He brought out in just two verses:
1) "those churches suffered from the Jews" Those sweet harmless
little Jews were committing "hate crimes" against Christians!
2) "the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus" The Apostle Paul was not the least bit
bashful about telling people "who killed the Lord Jesus" which the Churches of
Christendom won't do!
3) "They displease God.." The Temple is still in ruins as a testament
to that fact! Undeniable wouldn't you say? And last BUT certainly not
least by any stretch of the imagination:
4) "They (Jews) are hostile to all men."
The Apostle Peter also confirms who had Jesus executed:
Acts 3:12-15 :: King James Version
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why
marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power
or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers,
hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the
presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be
granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof
we are witnesses.
Remain in denial if you wish!
Tavish
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
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| User: "Michael ONeill" |
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| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 01:11:19 PM |
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Ward Cleaver wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:32:28 -0600, <10bs08ps2htdk2c@corp.supernews.com> "Norma"
<norma2339@charter.net> wrote:
FALSE!!!
What is wrong with you?
Nothing!
It was the Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus (if it did happen).
It was a Roman form of execution. The Jews had never done
any such thing. Give this up. Norma
Who does the Bible hold responsible for Jesus' murder?
Propaganda.
As regards Peter he says:
"whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him
go"
That still doesn't amount to murder. That deed was Pilate's.
Pilate could have let both men go.
But as for Paul:
"You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, who
killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out."
Prophets plural.
Apart from John the Baptist, what other prophet did the Jews kill. Jesus was named separately.
Like I said.
Early Christian Propaganda.
Similar to blaming Iraq for 9-11. Lies, in other words.
M.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
03 Jun 2004 07:38:27 AM |
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Michael O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote in message news:<40BE1847.E2856513@indigo.ie>...
Ward Cleaver wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:32:28 -0600, <10bs08ps2htdk2c@corp.supernews.com> "Norma"
<norma2339@charter.net> wrote:
FALSE!!!
What is wrong with you?
Nothing!
It was the Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus (if it did happen).
It was a Roman form of execution. The Jews had never done
any such thing. Give this up. Norma
Who does the Bible hold responsible for Jesus' murder?
Propaganda.
As regards Peter he says:
"whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him
go"
That still doesn't amount to murder. That deed was Pilate's.
Pilate could have let both men go.
But as for Paul:
"You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, who
killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out."
Prophets plural.
Apart from John the Baptist, what other prophet did the Jews kill. Jesus was named separately.
Like I said.
Early Christian Propaganda.
Similar to blaming Iraq for 9-11. Lies, in other words.
the Bible doesn't set responsibility. And you use Paul? Many thing
he bastafdized Christianity, and if you read the epitles they are
right. He changed everything. He was a former Jew who had some sort
of miraculous epiphany. Norma
M.
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| User: "Michael ONeill" |
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| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 11:30:16 AM |
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Ward Cleaver wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 15:33:48 +0100, <40BDE54C.8E9881B5@indigo.ie> Michael
O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote:
Slade Farney wrote:
If you step out of line, they stone you (like St. Stephen),
burn you (like the priests of Balaam), drop you through a crack in the
earth (like Korah), crucify you (like Jesus),
<snip>
The Jews didn't crucify Jesus.
FALSE!!!
To assert that they did is rather an odd error to make in a pseudo liturgical thread
like this one.
Haven't you read your bible?
I have and Jews were the ones the Bible states as having Jesus murdered.
Don't you KNOW who crucified Jesus?
JEWS!!
If not, you're about 2,000 years behind the times.
You're the one behind times!!
I.E.
Well, I may be behind the times, but I'm not stupid.
Read between the nascent Christian Public Relations and Marketing exercise and you'll find one
undeniable fact.
The Jews did not murder Jesus.
<hint: they had no power in Jerusalem at that time>
M.
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| User: "Ward Cleaver" |
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| Title: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 12:20:29 PM |
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On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 17:30:16 +0100, <40BE0098.ABACC7DE@indigo.ie> Michael
O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote:
Ward Cleaver wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 15:33:48 +0100, <40BDE54C.8E9881B5@indigo.ie> Michael
O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote:
Slade Farney wrote:
If you step out of line, they stone you (like St. Stephen),
burn you (like the priests of Balaam), drop you through a crack in the
earth (like Korah), crucify you (like Jesus),
<snip>
The Jews didn't crucify Jesus.
FALSE!!!
To assert that they did is rather an odd error to make in a pseudo liturgical thread
like this one.
Haven't you read your bible?
I have and Jews were the ones the Bible states as having Jesus murdered.
Don't you KNOW who crucified Jesus?
JEWS!!
If not, you're about 2,000 years behind the times.
You're the one behind times!!
I.E.
Well, I may be behind the times, but I'm not stupid.
Read between the nascent Christian Public Relations and Marketing exercise and you'll find one
undeniable fact.
The Jews did not murder Jesus.
So you deny what Bible writers wrote:
Jesus himself foretold who would have greater sin (or culpability) for his death
and he plainly stated to Pilate: "therefore he who delivered me to you has the
greater sin." Who delivered Jesus to Pilate and therefore has the greater sin?
Answer: JEWS!
John 19:6-16 (English-RSV)
6 When the chief priests and the officers saw him, they cried out,
"Crucify him, crucify him!" Pilate said to them, "Take him yourselves
and crucify him, for I find no crime in him."
7 The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law he ought to
die, because he has made himself the Son of God."
8 When Pilate heard these words, he was the more afraid;
9 he entered the praetorium again and said to Jesus, "Where are you
from?" But Jesus gave no answer.
10 Pilate therefore said to him, "You will not speak to me? Do you not
know that I have power to release you, and power to crucify you?"
11 Jesus answered him, "You would have no power over me unless it had
been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has
the greater sin."
Pilate also confirmed it was Jews who delivered Jesus to him in earlier
scripture:
John 18: (English-RSV)
28 Then they led Jesus from the house of Ca'iaphas to the praetorium.
It was early. They themselves did not enter the praetorium, so that
they might not be defiled, but might eat the passover.
29 So Pilate went out to them and said, "What accusation do you bring
against this man?"
30 They answered him, "If this man were not an evildoer, we would not
have handed him over."
31 Pilate said to them, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own
law." The Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put any man to
death."
32 This was to fulfil the word which Jesus had spoken to show by what
death he was to die.
33 Pilate entered the praetorium again and called Jesus, and said to
him, "Are you the King of the Jews?"
34 Jesus answered, "Do you say this of your own accord, or did others
say it to you about me?"
35 Pilate answered, "Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests
have handed you over to me...
The Apostle Peter also confirms who delivered Jesus up to be executed:
Acts 3:12-15 :: King James Version
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why
marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power
or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers,
hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the
presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be
granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof
we are witnesses.
The Jews, themselves, admitted they handed Jesus over to Pilate:
John 18: (English-RSV)
29 So Pilate went out to them and said, "What accusation do you bring
against this man?"
30 They answered him, "If this man were not an evildoer, we would not
have handed him over."
31 Pilate said to them, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own
law." The Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put any man to
death."
Key words were: "we would not have handed him over."
The Apostle Paul plainly states who killed Jesus:
1 Thessalonians 2:14,15 (English-NIV):
14 For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea,
which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the
same things those churches suffered from the Jews,
15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out.
They displease God and are hostile to all men.
Notice the fine points made by the Apostle Paul in this little bit of
scripture!
He brought out in two verses:
1) " those churches suffered from the Jews" Those sweet harmless
little Jews were committing "hate crimes" against Christians!
2) "the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus"
3) "They displease God.." The Temple is still in ruins as a testament
to that fact! Undeniable wouldn't you say? And last BUT certainly not
least by any stretch of the imagination:
4) "They (Jews) are hostile to all men."
Disciple Stephen testifies: "Which one of the prophets did your forefathers not
persecute? Yes, they killed those who made announcement in advance concerning
the coming of the righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers YOU have become."
Acts 7: 52 This was from the speech Stephen gave the Jews about all of their
transgressions just before he (Stephen) got stoned to death by Jews who could
not contradict what he was telling them. Jews have quite a Biblical record as
killing people or having them harassed by government when their sins, hypocrisy,
and evil are held up to their faces!
I.E.
Acts 6:8-12 (English-KJV)
8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles
among the people.
9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue
of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia
and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.
10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he
spake.
11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak
blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.
12 And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and
came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council...
Acts 7:1, 51-58 (English-KJV)
1 Then said the high priest, Are these things so?
(History of Jews transgressions against G-d deleted for brevity. Tavish)
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist
the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have
slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye
have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not
kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and
they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven,
and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on
the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran
upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him:....
From the above passages we learn:
a) [T]here arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue
of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia
and of Asia, disputing with Stephen
b) Stephen "spoke things they couldn't refute" as recorded with the words:
"they were not able to resist the wisdom.."
c) The Pharisees then: "stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one
accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him...."
d) Stephen blamed the Pharisaic Jews of the synagogue for the death of Jesus.
Going back to the Bible regarding the culpability of Jews for Jesus' death:
Matthew 27:20,24,25 (English-RSV)
20 Now the chief priests and the elders persuaded the people to ask
for Barab'bas and destroy Jesus.
24 So when Pilate saw that he was gaining nothing, but rather that a
riot was beginning, he took water and washed his hands before the
crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this man's blood; see to it
yourselves."
25 And all the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our
children!"
Who were "the chief priests and the elders persuad[ing] the people to ask
for Barab'bas and destroy Jesus"? Answer: JEWS!! Who said: ""His blood be
on us and on our children!"? Answer: JEWS!!
<hint: they had no power in Jerusalem at that time>
YOUR OPINION WHICH IS WORTHLESS!
M.
Tavish
-- The Apostle Paul says much about Pharisaic Jews in two Bible scriptures:
1 Thessalonians 2:14,15 (English-NIV):
14 For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea,
which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the
same things those churches suffered from the Jews,
15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out.
They displease God and are hostile to all men.
Notice the fine points made by the Apostle Paul in just
two verses of scripture!
He brought out in just two verses:
1) "those churches suffered from the Jews" Those sweet harmless
little Jews were committing "hate crimes" against Christians!
2) "the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus" The Apostle Paul was not the least bit
bashful about telling people "who killed the Lord Jesus" which the Churches of
Christendom won't do!
3) "They displease God.." The Temple is still in ruins as a testament
to that fact! Undeniable wouldn't you say? And last BUT certainly not
least by any stretch of the imagination:
4) "They (Jews) are hostile to all men."
Regarding "2) "the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus" The Apostle Paul was
not the least bit bashful about telling people "who killed the Lord Jesus"
which the Churches of Christendom won't do!" see this archive:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=m1p5nv4es86j78p5dr5pe41l8pi3vfcst0%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: UPDATED The Most Heinous Murder Plot Ever Devised (For Your Archives &
Research) V2.5 Message-ID: <m1p5nv4es86j78p5dr5pe41l8pi3vfcst0@4ax.com>
Date: 25 Sep 2003 13:23:49 GMT
I might as well throw this in seeing how I mentioned "Hate Crimes."
Historically, who do most people think were more brutal- Nazis or
Pharisees?
(One example) Persecution and torture:
Matthew 23:34 (English-RSV)
[Jesus warned] "Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of
whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and
persecute from town to town...." [Tavish comment: The words just stated were
addressed to the Jewish Pharisee Rabbis!]
[To scourge means to lash or whip severely. Imagine Jews chasing people from
town to town and flogging them in their Jewish synagogues! I don't think even
the Nazis rounded up Jews and flogged them in Christendom's Churches!! What Jews
did happened and it is documented in the Bible for all to see! Tavish]
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=i31ucv4nvr6ehh6r2jgq8d7orrpfhm3j09%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: The Apostle Paul on Judaized Jews R_0524
Message-ID: <i31ucv4nvr6ehh6r2jgq8d7orrpfhm3j09@4ax.com>
Date: 24 May 2003 05:30:25 GMT
_______________________________________________________________________________
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<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
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| User: "Michael ONeill" |
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| Title: Cleaver - three monkeys in one...[was Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 01:16:44 PM |
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Ward Cleaver wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 17:30:16 +0100, <40BE0098.ABACC7DE@indigo.ie> Michael
O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote:
Ward Cleaver wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 15:33:48 +0100, <40BDE54C.8E9881B5@indigo.ie> Michael
O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote:
Slade Farney wrote:
If you step out of line, they stone you (like St. Stephen),
burn you (like the priests of Balaam), drop you through a crack in the
earth (like Korah), crucify you (like Jesus),
<snip>
The Jews didn't crucify Jesus.
FALSE!!!
To assert that they did is rather an odd error to make in a pseudo liturgical thread
like this one.
Haven't you read your bible?
I have and Jews were the ones the Bible states as having Jesus murdered.
Don't you KNOW who crucified Jesus?
JEWS!!
If not, you're about 2,000 years behind the times.
You're the one behind times!!
I.E.
Well, I may be behind the times, but I'm not stupid.
Read between the nascent Christian Public Relations and Marketing exercise and you'll find one
undeniable fact.
The Jews did not murder Jesus.
So you deny what Bible writers wrote:
Jesus himself foretold who would have greater sin (or culpability) for his death
and he plainly stated to Pilate: "therefore he who delivered me to you has the
greater sin." Who delivered Jesus to Pilate and therefore has the greater sin?
Answer: JEWS!
He uses the singular "he" not the plural "they".
The act of deliverance was only possible by an act of betrayal.
Again any christian child knows the answer to the question of who betrayed Christ to his death.
Answer; Judas.
You really *are* stupid, aren't you, Cleaver.
You know nothing, think nothing, talk shite.
M.
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| User: "Slade Farney" |
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| Title: Re: Cleaver - three monkeys in one...[was Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
02 Jun 2004 11:53:18 PM |
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Michael O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote in message news:<40BE198C.40A7F298@indigo.ie>...
Ward Cleaver wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 17:30:16 +0100, <40BE0098.ABACC7DE@indigo.ie> Michael
O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote:
Ward Cleaver wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 15:33:48 +0100, <40BDE54C.8E9881B5@indigo.ie> Michael
O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote:
Slade Farney wrote:
If you step out of line, they stone you (like St. Stephen),
burn you (like the priests of Balaam), drop you through a crack in the
earth (like Korah), crucify you (like Jesus),
The Jews didn't crucify Jesus.
FALSE!!!
To assert that they did is rather an odd error to make in a pseudo
liturgical thread like this one.
Haven't you read your bible?
I have and Jews were the ones the Bible states as having Jesus murdered.
Don't you KNOW who crucified Jesus?
JEWS!!
If not, you're about 2,000 years behind the times.
You're the one behind times!!
Well, I may be behind the times, but I'm not stupid.
Read between the nascent Christian Public Relations and Marketing exercise
and you'll find one undeniable fact.
The Jews did not murder Jesus.
So you deny what Bible writers wrote:
Jesus himself foretold who would have greater sin (or culpability) for his
death and he plainly stated to Pilate: "therefore he who delivered me to
you has the greater sin." Who delivered Jesus to Pilate and therefore has
the greater sin?
Answer: JEWS!
He uses the singular "he" not the plural "they".
The act of deliverance was only possible by an act of betrayal.
Again any christian child knows the answer to the question of who betrayed
Christ to his death.
Answer; Judas.
According to the Gospels, who paid Judas? The answer is: The High
Priest of the Jews.
To whom did Judas deliver Jesus? The answer is: The High Priest of
the Jews -- and the High Priest was not a Roman.
The person who delivered Jesus to the Romans was Caiaphas, the High
Priest of the Jews.
You really *are* stupid, aren't you, Cleaver.
You know nothing, think nothing, talk shite.
At least he can read. Cleaver might also enjoy reading in the Talmud
about the trial of Jesus from the Pharisee point of view. The cites
for those passages can be found in
http://come-and-hear.com/editor/censorship_2.html
Quote:
"Jesus' Membrum in the Talmud" -- What did the Jewish priests think of
Jesus? This information will supplement Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John
— a must-read for serious Christians.
--Slade
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| User: "Wally Cleaver wally_cleaver@mayfield01net" |
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| Title: Re: Cleaver - three monkeys in one...[was Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness |
04 Jun 2004 03:14:07 PM |
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On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 19:16:44 +0100, <40BE198C.40A7F298@indigo.ie> Michael
O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote:
Message-ID: <40BE198C.40A7F298@indigo.ie>
From: Michael O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie>
Organization: O'Neill Quigley & Associates
Subject: Cleaver - three monkeys in one...[was Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness
So you can't refute and now you change the subject title, delete my proofs, and
then stoop to name calling!
References: <263sb0pkfoqaqkvv64lv8k1hpgvtg3bbrh@4ax.com>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What I actually posted as referenced above may be retrieved with this link:
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=263sb0pkfoqaqkvv64lv8k1hpgvtg3bbrh@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Re: Judaism - The Heart of Intellectual Darkness
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 19:16:44 +0100
NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.70.44.88
Ward Cleaver wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 17:30:16 +0100, <40BE0098.ABACC7DE@indigo.ie> Michael
O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote:
Ward Cleaver wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 15:33:48 +0100, <40BDE54C.8E9881B5@indigo.ie> Michael
O'Neill <onq@indigo.ie> wrote:
Slade Farney wrote:
If you step out of line, they stone you (like St. Stephen),
burn you (like the priests of Balaam), drop you through a crack in the
earth (like Korah), crucify you (like Jesus),
<snip>
The Jews didn't crucify Jesus.
FALSE!!!
To assert that they did is rather an odd error to make in a pseudo liturgical
thread like this one.
Haven't you read your bible?
I have and Jews were the ones the Bible states as having Jesus murdered.
Don't you KNOW who crucified Jesus?
JEWS!!
If not, you're about 2,000 years behind the times.
You're the one behind times!!
I.E.
Well, I may be behind the times, but I'm not stupid.
Read between the nascent Christian Public Relations and Marketing exercise
and you'll find one undeniable fact.
The Jews did not murder Jesus.
So you deny what Bible writers wrote:
What Judas Michael deleted is now fully restored exposing his ignorance and
putting him to shame:
Jesus himself foretold who would have greater sin (or culpability) for his death
and he plainly stated to Pilate: "therefore he who delivered me to you has the
greater sin." Who delivered Jesus to Pilate and therefore has the greater sin?
Answer: JEWS!
John 19:6-16 (English-RSV)
6 When the chief priests and the officers saw him, they cried out,
"Crucify him, crucify him!" Pilate said to them, "Take him yourselves
and crucify him, for I find no crime in him."
7 The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law he ought to
die, because he has made himself the Son of God."
8 When Pilate heard these words, he was the more afraid;
9 he entered the praetorium again and said to Jesus, "Where are you
from?" But Jesus gave no answer.
10 Pilate therefore said to him, "You will not speak to me? Do you not
know that I have power to release you, and power to crucify you?"
11 Jesus answered him, "You would have no power over me unless it had
been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has
the greater sin."
Pilate also confirmed it was Jews who delivered Jesus to him in earlier
scripture:
John 18: (English-RSV)
28 Then they led Jesus from the house of Ca'iaphas to the praetorium.
It was early. They themselves did not enter the praetorium, so that
they might not be defiled, but might eat the passover.
29 So Pilate went out to them and said, "What accusation do you bring
against this man?"
30 They answered him, "If this man were not an evildoer, we would not
have handed him over."
31 Pilate said to them, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own
law." The Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put any man to
death."
32 This was to fulfil the word which Jesus had spoken to show by what
death he was to die.
33 Pilate entered the praetorium again and called Jesus, and said to
him, "Are you the King of the Jews?"
34 Jesus answered, "Do you say this of your own accord, or did others
say it to you about me?"
35 Pilate answered, "Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief | | | | | | | | |
