| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"David Matthieu P.P." |
| Date: |
07 Sep 2004 05:10:15 PM |
| Object: |
LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
The theologians of Babylon, manipulating the fear of
uninformed Christians concerning Antichrist, has created
a totally new Character unrelated to the archetypal False
Prophet the book of Revelation has been warning us about.
John the beloved Apostle has described in his vision a
Character completely different from the Political figure
coming out of the "revived Roman Empire" promoted by the
Anointed Ministers. The scriptures of the Book of Revelation
clearly point to a Charismatic Personage working Signs and
wonders of whom Saint John refers to as: "the false prophet
that wrought miracles". Saint John goes on to reveal that this
individual will use his signs to mislead men into the worship
of Satan, and his miracles will be quite impressive: "he doeth
GREAT wonders". This immediately bring to our recollection the
warning of the Lord Jesus Christ: For there shall arise false
Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew GREAT signs and
wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive
the very elect." Corroborating the admonition of the Lord,
Saint John also wrote that the False Prophet "deceiveth them
that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles". Just
as when the pieces of a puzzle are correctly put together, all
these scriptures of the book of Revelation are amazingly
displaying a very sharp image of a Wolf of Deception in sheep's
Clothing:
Why is it imperative for the Ministers of lying Wonders to
frantically advocate this Political Character they have
cunningly conceived? You are wondering: why are they so
obstinate in distorting the scriptures of Revelation to
demonstrate the coming of a world leader with an urge to
mark the Nations with a bar code on their forehead?
Revelation 19:20 clearly indicates that only those deceived
by the miracles of the false prophet will receive the mark of
the beast.
Rev 19:20: And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that
wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received
the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were
cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
It is extremely important for all Christians to be able to
discern the deceitful miracles of the False Prophets seeking to
mark your forehead with the Anointing of Satan.
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/7192/page4.html
.
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
07 Sep 2004 05:37:04 PM |
|
|
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Tue, 7 Sep 2004 18:10:15 -0400, "David Matthieu P.P."
<johnrevelation7@yahoo.com> screamed out:
The theologians of Babylon, manipulating the fear of
uninformed Christians concerning Antichrist, has created
a totally new Character unrelated to the archetypal False
Prophet the book of Revelation has been warning us about.
John the beloved Apostle has described in his vision a
Character completely different from the Political figure
coming out of the "revived Roman Empire" promoted by the
Anointed Ministers. The scriptures of the Book of Revelation
clearly point to a Charismatic Personage working Signs and
wonders of whom Saint John refers to as: "the false prophet
that wrought miracles". Saint John goes on to reveal that this
individual will use his signs to mislead men into the worship
of Satan, and his miracles will be quite impressive: "he doeth
GREAT wonders". This immediately bring to our recollection the
warning of the Lord Jesus Christ: For there shall arise false
Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew GREAT signs and
wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive
the very elect." Corroborating the admonition of the Lord,
Saint John also wrote that the False Prophet "deceiveth them
that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles". Just
as when the pieces of a puzzle are correctly put together, all
these scriptures of the book of Revelation are amazingly
displaying a very sharp image of a Wolf of Deception in sheep's
Clothing:
If we read our Scriptures though, we find that those
who think that some AntiChrist (which the Bible doesn't
say would exist) will work some great miracles and
thereby maybe fool the elect, are in error. The Bible
doesn't just say some man is a fake. It says that the
supposed miracles themselves are fake. They are parlor
tricks, nothing more. This is further proof that these
events took place in the first century, when fakes made
statues talk, etc.. Hence "the image of the beast"
statements.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"Were they ashamed when they made an abomination?
They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know
to blush. So they shall fall among those who fall.
At the time I visit them, they shall be cast down,
says Jehovah." - Jeremiah 6:15
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that
genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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.
|
|
|
| User: "David Matthieu P.P." |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
07 Sep 2004 08:44:07 PM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message > If we read
our Scriptures though, we find that those
who think that some AntiChrist (which the Bible doesn't
say would exist) will work some great miracles and
thereby maybe fool the elect, are in error. The Bible
doesn't just say some man is a fake. It says that the
supposed miracles themselves are fake. They are parlor
tricks, nothing more. This is further proof that these
events took place in the first century, when fakes made
statues talk, etc.. Hence "the image of the beast"
statements.
Rv:16:13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth
of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of
the false prophet.
14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth
unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the
battle of that great day of God Almighty.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
08 Sep 2004 06:39:25 AM |
|
|
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:44:07 -0400, "David Matthieu P.P."
<johnrevelation7@yahoo.com> screamed out:
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message > If we read
our Scriptures though, we find that those
who think that some AntiChrist (which the Bible doesn't
say would exist) will work some great miracles and
thereby maybe fool the elect, are in error. The Bible
doesn't just say some man is a fake. It says that the
supposed miracles themselves are fake. They are parlor
tricks, nothing more. This is further proof that these
events took place in the first century, when fakes made
statues talk, etc.. Hence "the image of the beast"
statements.
Rv:16:13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth
of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of
the false prophet.
14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth
unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the
battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Neither Satan, nor his demons have the power of God.
For example, 2 Thessalonians 2:9 speaks of "lying
wonders". That could be translated as "counterfeit
miracles". They're not real. The ALT translates it
as, "in all power and signs and wonders of deceit". OF
DECEIT. He is deceiving them into thinking they are
real miracles.
Remember, it isn't Satan that's doing the supposed
miracles. It's "the lawless one", which people claim
is the AntiChrist, but that isn't what it says. Nor
would the AntiChrist (which the Bible does not claim
would exist) have the power of God, as the common
belief today would require. Anyway, the lawless one
would be the one doing this and it says that HIS
ARRIVAL would be according to the working of Satan. It
then goes on to say that the lawless one would work
these signs and wonders of deceit (not Satan), or as
the KJV puts it, "lying wonders". The wonders
themselves are a lie. That's why it says, "lying
wonders" and not, "lying Satan". :) That's what the
Bible says. Read the verse carefully. Too many people
are too busy ascribing God's power to Satan.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"Were they ashamed when they made an abomination?
They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know
to blush. So they shall fall among those who fall.
At the time I visit them, they shall be cast down,
says Jehovah." - Jeremiah 6:15
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"The best vitamin for a Christian is B1."
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray" |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
20 Nov 2004 08:24:41 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5artj0h4o5cnb4m9j1c4ruflhfbcqj6t21@4ax.com...
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:44:07 -0400, "David Matthieu P.P."
<johnrevelation7@yahoo.com> screamed out:
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message > If we
read
our Scriptures though, we find that those
who think that some AntiChrist (which the Bible doesn't
say would exist) will work some great miracles and
thereby maybe fool the elect, are in error. The Bible
doesn't just say some man is a fake. It says that the
supposed miracles themselves are fake. They are parlor
tricks, nothing more. This is further proof that these
events took place in the first century, when fakes made
statues talk, etc.. Hence "the image of the beast"
statements.
Rv:16:13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the
mouth
of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of
the false prophet.
14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth
unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the
battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Neither Satan, nor his demons have the power of God.
For example, 2 Thessalonians 2:9 speaks of "lying
wonders". That could be translated as "counterfeit
miracles". They're not real. The ALT translates it
as, "in all power and signs and wonders of deceit". OF
DECEIT. He is deceiving them into thinking they are
real miracles.
Remember, it isn't Satan that's doing the supposed
miracles. It's "the lawless one", which people claim
is the AntiChrist, but that isn't what it says. Nor
would the AntiChrist (which the Bible does not claim
would exist) have the power of God, as the common
belief today would require. Anyway, the lawless one
would be the one doing this and it says that HIS
ARRIVAL would be according to the working of Satan. It
then goes on to say that the lawless one would work
these signs and wonders of deceit (not Satan), or as
the KJV puts it, "lying wonders". The wonders
themselves are a lie. That's why it says, "lying
wonders" and not, "lying Satan". :) That's what the
Bible says. Read the verse carefully. Too many people
are too busy ascribing God's power to Satan.
The power of Satan can still be far more than human beings consider
'normal', with just about everything that Jesus did on earth being a party
trick that Satan can achieve in a counterfeit fashion. That is not the power
of God, but falls much shorter than God's power.
But such power is possible for men with the Holy Spirit working through
them. So it would seem that one will be indistinguishable from the other as
far as "effects and signs" are concerned. They will be miracles, but lying
in the fact that they are not from God's source.
However in my studies on spiritual power, I have found that FAITH can make
things happen which are not in the will of God, and can have people
following false signs. Take Jesus own words on this warning, that many will
say Lord in your name we did this and that, and he will say depart from me
you who practice lawlessness, I never knew you.
To pray in faith for something can be done by sheer determination and
belief, such is often called sorceries or witchcraft, both add up to 666
(that is six hundred and sixty six) in that code.
God's perfect will is for the good of the whole for eternity by the
consequences of every action.
Though some might consider that to a man 2000 years ago, a missile being
called down from heaving to destroy a city, could be "calling down fire from
heaven in the presence of men", depending on the impression and vision given
to him.
For in the last days they will be lacking in faith, have a form of godliness
and yet deny its power. To such a bullet is more powerful than a prayer, and
more used.
PEace
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"Were they ashamed when they made an abomination?
They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know
to blush. So they shall fall among those who fall.
At the time I visit them, they shall be cast down,
says Jehovah." - Jeremiah 6:15
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"The best vitamin for a Christian is B1."
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
21 Nov 2004 05:52:58 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:24:41 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
Neither Satan, nor his demons have the power of God.
For example, 2 Thessalonians 2:9 speaks of "lying
wonders". That could be translated as "counterfeit
miracles". They're not real. The ALT translates it
as, "in all power and signs and wonders of deceit". OF
DECEIT. He is deceiving them into thinking they are
real miracles.
Remember, it isn't Satan that's doing the supposed
miracles. It's "the lawless one", which people claim
is the AntiChrist, but that isn't what it says. Nor
would the AntiChrist (which the Bible does not claim
would exist) have the power of God, as the common
belief today would require. Anyway, the lawless one
would be the one doing this and it says that HIS
ARRIVAL would be according to the working of Satan. It
then goes on to say that the lawless one would work
these signs and wonders of deceit (not Satan), or as
the KJV puts it, "lying wonders". The wonders
themselves are a lie. That's why it says, "lying
wonders" and not, "lying Satan". :) That's what the
Bible says. Read the verse carefully. Too many people
are too busy ascribing God's power to Satan.
The power of Satan can still be far more than human beings consider
'normal', with just about everything that Jesus did on earth being a party
trick that Satan can achieve in a counterfeit fashion. That is not the power
of God, but falls much shorter than God's power.
They won't be real miracles and it won't be anywhere
near what God does, nor does the Scripture say that.
But such power is possible for men with the Holy Spirit working through
them. So it would seem that one will be indistinguishable from the other as
far as "effects and signs" are concerned. They will be miracles, but lying
in the fact that they are not from God's source.
That is not what the Greek says. The Greek implies
that the wonders themselves are lies.
However in my studies on spiritual power, I have found that FAITH can make
things happen which are not in the will of God,
Nothing happens outside of God's will. You seem to
think that someone can wrest control away from God.
To pray in faith for something can be done by sheer determination and
belief,
It isn't your will that makes things happen.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray" |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
21 Nov 2004 11:22:37 PM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u601q09u2b1a7o1ii855dircj3q03c6773@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:24:41 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
Neither Satan, nor his demons have the power of God.
For example, 2 Thessalonians 2:9 speaks of "lying
wonders". That could be translated as "counterfeit
miracles". They're not real. The ALT translates it
as, "in all power and signs and wonders of deceit". OF
DECEIT. He is deceiving them into thinking they are
real miracles.
Remember, it isn't Satan that's doing the supposed
miracles. It's "the lawless one", which people claim
is the AntiChrist, but that isn't what it says. Nor
would the AntiChrist (which the Bible does not claim
would exist) have the power of God, as the common
belief today would require. Anyway, the lawless one
would be the one doing this and it says that HIS
ARRIVAL would be according to the working of Satan. It
then goes on to say that the lawless one would work
these signs and wonders of deceit (not Satan), or as
the KJV puts it, "lying wonders". The wonders
themselves are a lie. That's why it says, "lying
wonders" and not, "lying Satan". :) That's what the
Bible says. Read the verse carefully. Too many people
are too busy ascribing God's power to Satan.
The power of Satan can still be far more than human beings consider
'normal', with just about everything that Jesus did on earth being a
party
trick that Satan can achieve in a counterfeit fashion. That is not the
power
of God, but falls much shorter than God's power.
They won't be real miracles and it won't be anywhere
near what God does, nor does the Scripture say that.
But such power is possible for men with the Holy Spirit working through
them. So it would seem that one will be indistinguishable from the other
as
far as "effects and signs" are concerned. They will be miracles, but
lying
in the fact that they are not from God's source.
That is not what the Greek says. The Greek implies
that the wonders themselves are lies.
However in my studies on spiritual power, I have found that FAITH can
make
things happen which are not in the will of God,
Nothing happens outside of God's will. You seem to
think that someone can wrest control away from God.
To pray in faith for something can be done by sheer determination and
belief,
It isn't your will that makes things happen.
And what is Magic, Witchcraft and Sorceries, if not something which is not
in God's will? For such are called lawlessness. Some people will do MIRACLES
in Jesus name and he will say I never knew you.
American Standard
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by
thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty
works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from
me, ye that work iniquity.
Young's Literal Translation
Mat 7:21 `Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into the
reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in
the heavens.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy
name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many
mighty things?
Mat 7:23 and then I will acknowledge to them, that--I never knew you, depart
from me ye who are working lawlessness.
I have seen power in prayer and power in force of will, and both get things
done. But one does it on its own will, as a sorcery. Even some people pray
like sorcery. What is not in harmony with God's will is not is lawlessness.
PEace
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray" |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
22 Nov 2004 04:16:16 AM |
|
|
"Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xIeod.44526$K7.33122@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u601q09u2b1a7o1ii855dircj3q03c6773@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:24:41 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
Neither Satan, nor his demons have the power of God.
For example, 2 Thessalonians 2:9 speaks of "lying
wonders". That could be translated as "counterfeit
miracles". They're not real. The ALT translates it
as, "in all power and signs and wonders of deceit". OF
DECEIT. He is deceiving them into thinking they are
real miracles.
Remember, it isn't Satan that's doing the supposed
miracles. It's "the lawless one", which people claim
is the AntiChrist, but that isn't what it says. Nor
would the AntiChrist (which the Bible does not claim
would exist) have the power of God, as the common
belief today would require. Anyway, the lawless one
would be the one doing this and it says that HIS
ARRIVAL would be according to the working of Satan. It
then goes on to say that the lawless one would work
these signs and wonders of deceit (not Satan), or as
the KJV puts it, "lying wonders". The wonders
themselves are a lie. That's why it says, "lying
wonders" and not, "lying Satan". :) That's what the
Bible says. Read the verse carefully. Too many people
are too busy ascribing God's power to Satan.
The power of Satan can still be far more than human beings consider
'normal', with just about everything that Jesus did on earth being a
party
trick that Satan can achieve in a counterfeit fashion. That is not the
power
of God, but falls much shorter than God's power.
They won't be real miracles and it won't be anywhere
near what God does, nor does the Scripture say that.
But such power is possible for men with the Holy Spirit working through
them. So it would seem that one will be indistinguishable from the
other
as
far as "effects and signs" are concerned. They will be miracles, but
lying
in the fact that they are not from God's source.
That is not what the Greek says. The Greek implies
that the wonders themselves are lies.
However in my studies on spiritual power, I have found that FAITH can
make
things happen which are not in the will of God,
Nothing happens outside of God's will. You seem to
think that someone can wrest control away from God.
To pray in faith for something can be done by sheer determination and
belief,
It isn't your will that makes things happen.
And what is Magic, Witchcraft and Sorceries, if not something which is not
in God's will? For such are called lawlessness. Some people will do
MIRACLES
in Jesus name and he will say I never knew you.
American Standard
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into
the
kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in
heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy
by
thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty
works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from
me, ye that work iniquity.
Young's Literal Translation
Mat 7:21 `Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into
the
reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in
the heavens.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy
name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done
many
mighty things?
Mat 7:23 and then I will acknowledge to them, that--I never knew you,
depart
from me ye who are working lawlessness.
I have seen power in prayer and power in force of will, and both get
things
done. But one does it on its own will, as a sorcery. Even some people pray
like sorcery. What is not in harmony with God's will is not is
lawlessness.
PEace
Gota hate typos...
What is not in harmony with God's will is lawlessness.
incidentally, Witchcraft and Sorceries both add up to 666 in the beast
formula
see calculation tools at...
http://beast666.webhop.info
PEace
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
22 Nov 2004 04:07:12 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 05:22:37 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u601q09u2b1a7o1ii855dircj3q03c6773@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:24:41 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
Neither Satan, nor his demons have the power of God.
For example, 2 Thessalonians 2:9 speaks of "lying
wonders". That could be translated as "counterfeit
miracles". They're not real. The ALT translates it
as, "in all power and signs and wonders of deceit". OF
DECEIT. He is deceiving them into thinking they are
real miracles.
Remember, it isn't Satan that's doing the supposed
miracles. It's "the lawless one", which people claim
is the AntiChrist, but that isn't what it says. Nor
would the AntiChrist (which the Bible does not claim
would exist) have the power of God, as the common
belief today would require. Anyway, the lawless one
would be the one doing this and it says that HIS
ARRIVAL would be according to the working of Satan. It
then goes on to say that the lawless one would work
these signs and wonders of deceit (not Satan), or as
the KJV puts it, "lying wonders". The wonders
themselves are a lie. That's why it says, "lying
wonders" and not, "lying Satan". :) That's what the
Bible says. Read the verse carefully. Too many people
are too busy ascribing God's power to Satan.
The power of Satan can still be far more than human beings consider
'normal', with just about everything that Jesus did on earth being a
party
trick that Satan can achieve in a counterfeit fashion. That is not
the
power
of God, but falls much shorter than God's power.
They won't be real miracles and it won't be anywhere
near what God does, nor does the Scripture say that.
But such power is possible for men with the Holy Spirit working
through them. So it would seem that one will be indistinguishable
from the other
as
far as "effects and signs" are concerned. They will be miracles, but
lying
in the fact that they are not from God's source.
That is not what the Greek says. The Greek implies
that the wonders themselves are lies.
However in my studies on spiritual power, I have found that FAITH
can
make
things happen which are not in the will of God,
Nothing happens outside of God's will. You seem to
think that someone can wrest control away from God.
To pray in faith for something can be done by sheer determination
and belief,
It isn't your will that makes things happen.
And what is Magic, Witchcraft and Sorceries, if not something which is
not in God's will? For such are called lawlessness. Some people will do
MIRACLES in Jesus name and he will say I never knew you.
If God does wish to allow something to happen, it
won't.
American Standard
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into
the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is
in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not
prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name
do many mighty works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart
from me, ye that work iniquity.
Young's Literal Translation
Mat 7:21 `Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into
the reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who
is in the heavens.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in
thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name
done many mighty things?
Mat 7:23 and then I will acknowledge to them, that--I never knew you,
depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.
I have seen power in prayer and power in force of will, and both get
things done. But one does it on its own will, as a sorcery. Even some
people pray like sorcery. What is not in harmony with God's will is not
is lawlessness.
See above. You go ahead and think you control God.
--
-
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
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\
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|
|
| User: "Ray" |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
24 Nov 2004 12:26:44 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A9A5C12C5D4pastordave38nospamya@209.25.157.130...
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 05:22:37 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u601q09u2b1a7o1ii855dircj3q03c6773@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:24:41 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
Neither Satan, nor his demons have the power of God.
For example, 2 Thessalonians 2:9 speaks of "lying
wonders". That could be translated as "counterfeit
miracles". They're not real. The ALT translates it
as, "in all power and signs and wonders of deceit". OF
DECEIT. He is deceiving them into thinking they are
real miracles.
Remember, it isn't Satan that's doing the supposed
miracles. It's "the lawless one", which people claim
is the AntiChrist, but that isn't what it says. Nor
would the AntiChrist (which the Bible does not claim
would exist) have the power of God, as the common
belief today would require. Anyway, the lawless one
would be the one doing this and it says that HIS
ARRIVAL would be according to the working of Satan. It
then goes on to say that the lawless one would work
these signs and wonders of deceit (not Satan), or as
the KJV puts it, "lying wonders". The wonders
themselves are a lie. That's why it says, "lying
wonders" and not, "lying Satan". :) That's what the
Bible says. Read the verse carefully. Too many people
are too busy ascribing God's power to Satan.
The power of Satan can still be far more than human beings consider
'normal', with just about everything that Jesus did on earth being a
party
trick that Satan can achieve in a counterfeit fashion. That is not
the
power
of God, but falls much shorter than God's power.
They won't be real miracles and it won't be anywhere
near what God does, nor does the Scripture say that.
But such power is possible for men with the Holy Spirit working
through them. So it would seem that one will be indistinguishable
from the other
as
far as "effects and signs" are concerned. They will be miracles, but
lying
in the fact that they are not from God's source.
That is not what the Greek says. The Greek implies
that the wonders themselves are lies.
However in my studies on spiritual power, I have found that FAITH
can
make
things happen which are not in the will of God,
Nothing happens outside of God's will. You seem to
think that someone can wrest control away from God.
To pray in faith for something can be done by sheer determination
and belief,
It isn't your will that makes things happen.
And what is Magic, Witchcraft and Sorceries, if not something which is
not in God's will? For such are called lawlessness. Some people will do
MIRACLES in Jesus name and he will say I never knew you.
If God does wish to allow something to happen, it
won't.
Dave
Seems you like to put words in my mouth. I never said that we control God.
Some just do not realise how far their free will allows them to go. But God
allows things which are not in his perfect will. For someone to do evil to
someone who is undeserving, does happen. It is not God's will but it does
happen.
The fact is we are gods. How we use that power also has limits. And we can
join with God's will as Jesus did, or we do our own thing. And believe it or
not, even if its not God's will, things will happen. How else can someone do
a miracle in God's name and still not know Him?
Consider September 11, 2001. God allowed it. Was it God's will? God allowed
it, and allowed it to be a sign. For 2003 years prior, the signs in the
heavens of Bethlehem have Jesus being born on September 11 and 12 of 3BC.
That is a fact. It fits precisely in with the 69 weeks of Daniel from the
decree to rebuild Jerusalem until the crucifixion. 33 years (360 day years -
[all the years in DAniel's 70 weeks calcs are 360 days]) so 33 of these
years from September 11, 3BC, is exactly Passover 31AD, coming to the 23rd
of March.
So why September 11? To get our attention. God's plan is interwoven. And
while religion is not his perfect will, it is tolerable working towards the
final goal. Religion gets it wrong a lot. Ritual and so forth. Jesus came to
point us back to God, so did John the Baptist. The GOAL is back to GOD, and
His ways, for the good for all. That all will be saved. That is God's will.
The only way it wont happen is if we personally do not want it for us, and
do the behaviour which stops us from having it. We are to love one another.
God loves us all. And a good parent which loves their child will not let
them do things beyond the boundaries of safety. A perfect parent (God) will
keep his reigns on you to keep you from harm. Harm in the bigger picture. To
die in this life, is not the bigger picture. If God's will is that none be
lost and that all be saved, yet some religious bullcrap idea gets around
that the majority of mankind will not be saved, then there is a major mess
up. And God is letting us destroy ourselves in ignorance. The equivalent of
giving a 2 year old a gun, and even weapons of mass destruction. IN the
eternal bigger picture, God cares for all of us, and all who call upon the
Lord will be saved. Justice is believing that God will understand your case.
That is both believing that He exists and believing in the Character of God,
as King David did. For even when David, comited Adultery and Murdered and
covered it up, we believed that God would always love him and forgive him.
The mercy of God is far greater than that of men's understanding.
While Jesus paid the price for all mankind. That is done, God's problem
solved on how to redeem mankind. Ignorant naive man was conned by a lying
murderer (the serpent/devil/dragon) into doubting God's intentions towards
him, and then believing the lie that put doubt on God's intentions. And that
was the first seed thought of the decision to do what was warned about. God
realised that man was conned by the most coniving liar about. Was it's man's
fault? In part it was. But it was the deceiver acting like a pedophile
taking advantage of the naive and innocent. A God of Justice does something
about it. As He did and paid the price for us. All fits into the divine plan
for eternity.
Someone wrote to me which had a near death out of body experience. And they
were preached the good news of Jesus while they were "dead". Religion wants
us to fear here and fear for eternity. God and Jesus want us to be at peace,
and love one another. To have no fear because perfect love drives out all
fear.
Jesus shoved down your face side wise has to hurt. And it has to make the
receiver as messed up as the sender. Jesus said of the religious, when you
convert someone you make him twice as much a son of the devil as yourself.
Hint, religion is bondage and the work of the devil to pervert the basic
love message of God.
So a lying sign is still a sign. Consider the magicians and Moses. They did
do powerful things. God did more powerful. So the point is that while it is
NOT the same POWER in measurement as God's power. It is still at least as
much as several angels (demons) and that is far enough to amaze and convince
men.
PEace
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
24 Nov 2004 06:59:20 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:26:44 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A9A5C12C5D4pastordave38nospamya@209.25.157.130...
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 05:22:37 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u601q09u2b1a7o1ii855dircj3q03c6773@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:24:41 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
Neither Satan, nor his demons have the power of God.
For example, 2 Thessalonians 2:9 speaks of "lying
wonders". That could be translated as "counterfeit
miracles". They're not real. The ALT translates it
as, "in all power and signs and wonders of deceit". OF
DECEIT. He is deceiving them into thinking they are
real miracles.
Remember, it isn't Satan that's doing the supposed
miracles. It's "the lawless one", which people claim
is the AntiChrist, but that isn't what it says. Nor
would the AntiChrist (which the Bible does not claim
would exist) have the power of God, as the common
belief today would require. Anyway, the lawless one
would be the one doing this and it says that HIS
ARRIVAL would be according to the working of Satan. It
then goes on to say that the lawless one would work
these signs and wonders of deceit (not Satan), or as
the KJV puts it, "lying wonders". The wonders
themselves are a lie. That's why it says, "lying
wonders" and not, "lying Satan". :) That's what the
Bible says. Read the verse carefully. Too many people
are too busy ascribing God's power to Satan.
The power of Satan can still be far more than human beings consider
'normal', with just about everything that Jesus did on earth being a
party
trick that Satan can achieve in a counterfeit fashion. That is not
the
power
of God, but falls much shorter than God's power.
They won't be real miracles and it won't be anywhere
near what God does, nor does the Scripture say that.
But such power is possible for men with the Holy Spirit working
through them. So it would seem that one will be indistinguishable
from the other
as
far as "effects and signs" are concerned. They will be miracles, but
lying
in the fact that they are not from God's source.
That is not what the Greek says. The Greek implies
that the wonders themselves are lies.
However in my studies on spiritual power, I have found that FAITH
can
make
things happen which are not in the will of God,
Nothing happens outside of God's will. You seem to
think that someone can wrest control away from God.
To pray in faith for something can be done by sheer determination
and belief,
It isn't your will that makes things happen.
And what is Magic, Witchcraft and Sorceries, if not something which is
not in God's will? For such are called lawlessness. Some people will do
MIRACLES in Jesus name and he will say I never knew you.
If God does not wish to allow something to happen, it
won't.
Dave
Seems you like to put words in my mouth. I never said that we control God.
You implied it.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ray" |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
25 Nov 2004 07:03:05 AM |
|
|
Your weird Dave
I did not talk to you for good reason beforehand. And it would seem those
good reasons seem to come back to me again. Even though I figure everyone
deserves as many chances as it takes. However, I am human, so not today, but
again one day soon I'm sure.
We are not even on the same level of communication. Where as it seems we
never will be. It's so fine that there are many mansions, for I certainly
would prefer not be around some of them if they keep anything like their
current personalities. My only hope is that we all live and learn, and
freaking well grow up and learn to use our abilities, spiritual and
intellectual.
Your way out there DAVE, you really are out there. You reckon the meaning of
what is written is not important, but the words written in whatever version.
Then you use an opposite liberal interpretation to add meaning to what I am
saying. What it all shows Dave, is that you have some sterotypical idea
about me that you assume some of these factors. It also shows that you are
locked into this preconceived idea.
for example, A hypocrite says one thing and does another or usually the
opposite and has a double standard. And are generally looked down upon by
many, and it is best to not be a hypocrite by anyone's measure.
However, consider now the one which says they are going to do something
which the hypocrite is in trouble for. Because this person was honest, they
are less looked down upon.
The there is someone which comes along and think that someone is a hypocrite
because they do not do what "they THINK" they should be doing. This can be
based on not having a clue about how that person lives and comparing it only
to your own ideas and experiences. It is only conjecture unless you truly
have walked several miles in those shoes. Else its speculation.
And this is the problem world wide with people. Too many think they are
better than others. Too many think they know better. And too many provoke
others into hostilities by their haughty attitudes.
God wants it eliminated. It will be eliminated. But we must change. Be slow
to anger, quick to reconsider and so on and so forth. Not word for word from
the bible, but right within the meaning of the spirit of what was written.
And that is the whole point, not whether my qualification in God are better
or lesser than anothers.
It's all about attitude and it always has been. If you do what you do only
because of a reward, then your intentions are not good. It is when one does
not expect a great reward and does what they do simply because it is right,
that then they earn the greatest rewards. It is the moral to just about any
story, such as Solomon and his choice of wisdom instead of riches and so he
was given riches as well. It cannot be manipulated and its only when we do
what we do with the love and devotion of a royal child of the kingdom of
heaven, that we have what it takes to grow more godlike. These are the ones
which will shine bright like the stars as in Daniel 12.
Attitude! But then you need to have some knowledge so you are not taken in
by religion and pastors and others which seek to impose their ideas of
indoctrination. There are no limits, there is only love. If love is the
motivation always, then there are no boundaries to be concerned for it is
perfect. If it is not of love, then it's attitude is wrong and it is very
worldly, religious or whatever is not correct. Attitude and knowledge.
Understanding of that knowledge into practical workings of living, and
wisdom based on the good the bad and the ugly from the experiences. A child
cannot have an old head on its shoulders, there is a process and we are all
growing. Some grow faster, some dont even know they are supposed to grow.
Layer upon layer, a god is made, in the image of the Father, rejoined
through the Son, always filled with the Holy Spirit, and totally at peace.
God is making us in His image. Thou art gods... (Psalm 82)
Or you can just be an ignorant argumentative type, with a chip on both
shoulders and not listen nor learn and be as bad as that which you so
despise.
There is a pyschology in all things. The fundamental rule is what you sow is
what you reap. And projection is a major issue with the emotional. But
education, experience and living practically, and some good to honest
reasoning, and things start to fit into place. Then, perhaps then, you will
understand and shut up!
PEace
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95AB865F3AC9Fpastordave38nospamya@209.25.157.130...
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:26:44 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A9A5C12C5D4pastordave38nospamya@209.25.157.130...
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 05:22:37 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u601q09u2b1a7o1ii855dircj3q03c6773@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:24:41 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
Neither Satan, nor his demons have the power of God.
For example, 2 Thessalonians 2:9 speaks of "lying
wonders". That could be translated as "counterfeit
miracles". They're not real. The ALT translates it
as, "in all power and signs and wonders of deceit". OF
DECEIT. He is deceiving them into thinking they are
real miracles.
Remember, it isn't Satan that's doing the supposed
miracles. It's "the lawless one", which people claim
is the AntiChrist, but that isn't what it says. Nor
would the AntiChrist (which the Bible does not claim
would exist) have the power of God, as the common
belief today would require. Anyway, the lawless one
would be the one doing this and it says that HIS
ARRIVAL would be according to the working of Satan. It
then goes on to say that the lawless one would work
these signs and wonders of deceit (not Satan), or as
the KJV puts it, "lying wonders". The wonders
themselves are a lie. That's why it says, "lying
wonders" and not, "lying Satan". :) That's what the
Bible says. Read the verse carefully. Too many people
are too busy ascribing God's power to Satan.
The power of Satan can still be far more than human beings
consider
'normal', with just about everything that Jesus did on earth
being
a
party
trick that Satan can achieve in a counterfeit fashion. That is
not the
power
of God, but falls much shorter than God's power.
They won't be real miracles and it won't be anywhere
near what God does, nor does the Scripture say that.
But such power is possible for men with the Holy Spirit working
through them. So it would seem that one will be indistinguishable
from the other
as
far as "effects and signs" are concerned. They will be miracles,
but
lying
in the fact that they are not from God's source.
That is not what the Greek says. The Greek implies
that the wonders themselves are lies.
However in my studies on spiritual power, I have found that FAITH
can
make
things happen which are not in the will of God,
Nothing happens outside of God's will. You seem to
think that someone can wrest control away from God.
To pray in faith for something can be done by sheer determination
and belief,
It isn't your will that makes things happen.
And what is Magic, Witchcraft and Sorceries, if not something which
is
not in God's will? For such are called lawlessness. Some people will
do
MIRACLES in Jesus name and he will say I never knew you.
If God does not wish to allow something to happen, it
won't.
Dave
Seems you like to put words in my mouth. I never said that we control
God.
You lied it.
History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any
rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to
stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do
have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive
considerable pleasure from fiddling with it. - Robert Heinlein
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
25 Nov 2004 01:35:45 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:03:05 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
Your weird Dave
And you responded to an imposter.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray" |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
25 Nov 2004 11:57:24 PM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rvccq0lonqbp6m8dotvcrltb3n016ikaui@4ax.com...
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:03:05 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
Your weird Dave
And you responded to an imposter.
cheap thrills huh?
sheez
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
22 Nov 2004 04:15:51 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 05:22:37 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u601q09u2b1a7o1ii855dircj3q03c6773@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:24:41 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
Neither Satan, nor his demons have the power of God.
For example, 2 Thessalonians 2:9 speaks of "lying
wonders". That could be translated as "counterfeit
miracles". They're not real. The ALT translates it
as, "in all power and signs and wonders of deceit". OF
DECEIT. He is deceiving them into thinking they are
real miracles.
Remember, it isn't Satan that's doing the supposed
miracles. It's "the lawless one", which people claim
is the AntiChrist, but that isn't what it says. Nor
would the AntiChrist (which the Bible does not claim
would exist) have the power of God, as the common
belief today would require. Anyway, the lawless one
would be the one doing this and it says that HIS
ARRIVAL would be according to the working of Satan. It
then goes on to say that the lawless one would work
these signs and wonders of deceit (not Satan), or as
the KJV puts it, "lying wonders". The wonders
themselves are a lie. That's why it says, "lying
wonders" and not, "lying Satan". :) That's what the
Bible says. Read the verse carefully. Too many people
are too busy ascribing God's power to Satan.
The power of Satan can still be far more than human beings consider
'normal', with just about everything that Jesus did on earth being a
party
trick that Satan can achieve in a counterfeit fashion. That is not
the
power
of God, but falls much shorter than God's power.
They won't be real miracles and it won't be anywhere
near what God does, nor does the Scripture say that.
But such power is possible for men with the Holy Spirit working
through them. So it would seem that one will be indistinguishable
from the other
as
far as "effects and signs" are concerned. They will be miracles, but
lying
in the fact that they are not from God's source.
That is not what the Greek says. The Greek implies
that the wonders themselves are lies.
However in my studies on spiritual power, I have found that FAITH
can
make
things happen which are not in the will of God,
Nothing happens outside of God's will. You seem to
think that someone can wrest control away from God.
To pray in faith for something can be done by sheer determination
and belief,
It isn't your will that makes things happen.
And what is Magic, Witchcraft and Sorceries, if not something which is
not in God's will? For such are called lawlessness. Some people will do
MIRACLES in Jesus name and he will say I never knew you.
If I do not wish to allow something to happen, it
won't.
American Standard
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into
the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is
in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not
prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name
do many mighty works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart
from me, ye that work iniquity.
Young's Literal Translation
Mat 7:21 `Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into
the reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who
is in the heavens.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in
thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name
done many mighty things?
Mat 7:23 and then I will acknowledge to them, that--I never knew you,
depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.
I have seen power in prayer and power in force of will, and both get
things done. But one does it on its own will, as a sorcery. Even some
people pray like sorcery. What is not in harmony with God's will is not
is lawlessness.
See above. You go ahead and think you control God.
--
-
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
| User: "AW" |
|
| Title: Hey |
22 Nov 2004 04:47:11 PM |
|
|
Hey Pastor Dave, remember me? Don't worry, I not going to argue about
beliefs with you. I am currently going around asking particular Christians
how they became Christians, its interesting for me to see this. I asked
IKnowHimDoYou and now I would like to ask you. Off course if this matter is
too private I'd understand. Just like IKnowHimDoYou, I remember you as quite
a fervent believer in the Christian religion, and I would thus like to know,
how did this come to being? A dream? A
vision? An event (seemingly constructed by Him)? An insight as you were
reading the Bible? A priest that convinced you? Inherited from the parents?
I do not have any hidden agenda this time, just curious about other people's
religious experiences.
Cheers ~ AW
.
|
|
|
| User: "Misty" |
|
| Title: Re: Hey |
23 Nov 2004 05:53:25 AM |
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AW wrote:
Hey Pastor Dave, remember me? Don't worry, I not going to argue about
beliefs with you. I am currently going around asking particular Christians
how they became Christians, its interesting for me to see this. I asked
IKnowHimDoYou and now I would like to ask you. Off course if this matter is
too private I'd understand. Just like IKnowHimDoYou, I remember you as quite
a fervent believer in the Christian religion, and I would thus like to know,
how did this come to being? A dream? A
vision? An event (seemingly constructed by Him)? An insight as you were
reading the Bible? A priest that convinced you? Inherited from the parents?
I do not have any hidden agenda this time, just curious about other people's
religious experiences.
Cheers ~ AW
Misty here, HEllo AW,
First; I must say any one that has became a Christian usually are very
glad and
happy on the onset of the faith.
However as time goes by that elation wanes.
NOw Jesus says If you are ashamed of I will be ashamed of you before the
Father.
So no true Christian will hold why and how they became believers.
Second; Christianity has very little to do with "RELIGION" per say.
If you see a congregation all of show of being Christian and trying to tell
all that it is a christian Church but has some other name other then
Christian
in their church title YOu can rest assured it is a worldly sect and one
way or the
other it is a daughter of the Mother Sect that has roots in Babylon.
I consider myself "Christian" and I have no mother Church, nor will you
see much
religion in my Church activities.
Misty,
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Hey |
22 Nov 2004 06:34:14 PM |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:47:11 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "AW" <africanwarhead@hotmail.com>
pontificated:
Hey Pastor Dave, remember me? Don't worry, I not going to argue about
beliefs with you. I am currently going around asking particular Christians
how they became Christians, its interesting for me to see this. I asked
IKnowHimDoYou and now I would like to ask you. Off course if this matter is
too private I'd understand. Just like IKnowHimDoYou, I remember you as quite
a fervent believer in the Christian religion, and I would thus like to know,
how did this come to being? A dream? A
vision? An event (seemingly constructed by Him)? An insight as you were
reading the Bible? A priest that convinced you? Inherited from the parents?
I do not have any hidden agenda this time, just curious about other people's
religious experiences.
Actually, it was while I was in jail.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
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"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: LYING SIGNS & WONDERS |
22 Nov 2004 04:08:51 PM |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 05:22:37 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u601q09u2b1a7o1ii855dircj3q03c6773@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:24:41 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Ray" <raymokeeffe@888hotmail.com>
pontificated:
Neither Satan, nor his demons have the power of God.
For example, 2 Thessalonians 2:9 speaks of "lying
wonders". That could be translated as "counterfeit
miracles". They're not real. The ALT translates it
as, "in all power and signs and wonders of deceit". OF
DECEIT. He is deceiving them into thinking they are
real miracles.
Remember, it isn't Satan that's doing the supposed
miracles. It's "the lawless one", which people claim
is the AntiChrist, but that isn't what it says. Nor
would the AntiChrist (which the Bible does not claim
would exist) have the power of God, as the common
belief today would require. Anyway, the lawless one
would be the one doing this and it says that HIS
ARRIVAL would be according to the working of Satan. It
then goes on to say that the lawless one would work
these signs and wonders of deceit (not Satan), or as
the KJV puts it, "lying wonders". The wonders
themselves are a lie. That's why it says, "lying
wonders" and not, "lying Satan". :) That's what the
Bible says. Read the verse carefully. Too many people
are too busy ascribing God's power to Satan.
The power of Satan can still be far more than human beings consider
'normal', with just about everything that Jesus did on earth being a
party
trick that Satan can achieve in a counterfeit fashion. That is not the
power
of God, but falls much shorter than God's power.
They won't be real miracles and it won't be anywhere
near what God does, nor does the Scripture say that.
But such power is possible for men with the Holy Spirit working through
them. So it would seem that one will be indistinguishable from the other
as
far as "effects and signs" are concerned. They will be miracles, but
lying
in the fact that they are not from God's source.
That is not what the Greek says. The Greek implies
that the wonders themselves are lies.
However in my studies on spiritual power, I have found that FAITH can
make
things happen which are not in the will of God,
Nothing happens outside of God's will. You seem to
think that someone can wrest control away from God.
To pray in faith for something can be done by sheer determination and
belief,
It isn't your will that makes things happen.
And what is Magic, Witchcraft and Sorceries, if not something which is not
in God's will? For such are called lawlessness. Some people will do MIRACLES
in Jesus name and he will say I never knew you.
If God does not wish to allow something to happen, it
won't.
American Standard
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by
thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty
works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from
me, ye that work iniquity.
Young's Literal Translation
Mat 7:21 `Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into the
reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in
the heavens.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy
name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many
mighty things?
Mat 7:23 and then I will acknowledge to them, that--I never knew you, depart
from me ye who are working lawlessness.
I have seen power in prayer and power in force of will, and both get things
done. But one does it on its own will, as a sorcery. Even some people pray
like sorcery. What is not in harmony with God's will is not is lawlessness.
See above. You go ahead and think you control God.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
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o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
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"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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