Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show

Religions > Bible > Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show

LINK TO THIS PAGE

rating : 0 | 0

Page 1 of 4

Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"Rev. Donald Spitz"
Date:	13 Aug 2005 09:17:16 AM
Object:	Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C59FF0.2E3BB700
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
And yet, Democrats still say that the American people
are on their side regarding abortions.
Have you noticed that the "Party of Death," keeps invoking
the American people, whatever the issue. The American=20
people say this, the American people are with us, the American=20
people disagree with the Republican party.
Whether it's true or not and it usually is not, they don't care.
It's the trademark of the Democratic party -- lies, distortions,
as long as they say those words, "The American People."
Next time, listen carefully.
I wonder why, the "Party of Death," keeps losing seats in the=20
Senate and House, never mind the presidency, if the American=20
people are always on their side.
Could it be that the lies are catching up with the Democratic=20
Party and their support of killing little babies. BINGO!
If pro-life candidates don't use the abortion stand of the=20
Democratic party in future elections, then they deserve to lose.
IT'S A WINNING ISSUE.
You can bet your bottom dollar that if a pro-abortion Democrat
candidate had an advantage on any issue, they would=20
use it. But, for reasons that I cannot fathom, Republican pro-life
candidates do not want to use the issue of "life" against their
opponent.
Maybe, they just feel sorry for their baby killing rival and
don't want to beat them too badly. Yeah, that must be it,
What other reason is there?
Respect God, fight for the lives of His unborn children.
Frank Joseph MD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------- =20
Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show
Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- A new CBS News poll finds a majority of =
Americans oppose abortions in all or most circumstances. The poll =
follows on the recent surveys showing most Americans believe abortions =
should either be illegal or happen in a very limited set of =
circumstances.=20
When asked about their "personal feeling about abortion," 53 percent of =
respondents said all or most abortions should not be permitted and only =
43 percent said all or most abortions should be permitted.=20
Of the 53 percent giving a pro-life answer, 33 percent believe abortion =
should only be permitted in the rare cases of rape, incest, or to save =
the life of the mother. Approximately 15 percent only believe abortion =
should be allowed to save the mother's life and 5 percent said abortions =
should never be permitted.=20
Of those 43 percent backing abortion, 28 percent believe abortion should =
be allowed in all situations while 15 percent back abortion in all cases =
but say it should be more restricted than it is now. While 53 percent =
took a pro-life position opposing all or most abortions, some 68 percent =
of those CBS News polled said abortion should be more restricted than it =
is now.=20
Current abortion law, following from the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court =
decision, allows virtually unrestricted abortions throughout pregnancy.=20
--=20
=20
SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I am a sinner and am headed to eternal hell =
because of my sins. I believe you died on the cross to take away my sins =
and to take me to heaven. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart and =
take away my sins and give me eternal life. http://www.ArmyofGod.com
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C59FF0.2E3BB700
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2722" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>
<DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>And yet, Democrats still say =
that the=20
American people</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>are on their side regarding=20
abortions.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>Have you noticed that the =
"Party of=20
Death," keeps invoking</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>the American people, =
whatever the=20
issue.  The American </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>people say this, the =
American people are=20
with us, the American </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>people disagree with the =
Republican=20
party.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>Whether it's true or not and =
it usually=20
is not, they don't care.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>It's the trademark of the =
Democratic=20
party -- lies, distortions,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>as long as they say those =
words, "The=20
American People."</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>Next time, listen=20
carefully.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3><STRONG>I wonder why, =
the "Party of Death,"=20
keeps losing seats in the </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3><STRONG>Senate and =
</STRONG></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#006666 size=3D3><STRONG>House, never mind the presidency, if =
the American=20
</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3><STRONG>people are always on their=20
side.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3><STRONG>Could it be that the lies =
are catching=20
up with the Democratic </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3><STRONG>Party and their support of =
killing=20
little babies.  BINGO!</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>If pro-life candidates don't =
use the=20
abortion stand of the </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>Democratic party in future =
elections,=20
then they deserve to lose.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>IT'S A WINNING=20
ISSUE.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>You can bet your bottom =
dollar that if a=20
pro-abortion Democrat</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>candidate had an advantage =
on any issue,=20
they would </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>use it.  But, for =
reasons that I=20
cannot fathom, Republican pro-life</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>candidates do not want to =
use the issue=20
of "life" against their</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 =
size=3D3>opponent.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>Maybe, they just feel sorry =
for their=20
baby killing rival and</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>don't want to beat them too =
badly. =20
Yeah, that must be it,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>What other reason is=20
there?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3><EM>Respect God, fight for =
the lives of=20
His unborn children.</EM></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3><STRONG>Frank Joseph =
MD</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#006666><FONT=20
size=3D3><STRONG>--------------------------------------------------------=
------------------------- =20
</STRONG></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#006666 size=3D3>Majority of Americans Oppose =
Most=20
Abortions, CBS News Poll Show</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=3D#000000><FONT=20
size=3D3><STRONG>Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- </STRONG>A new CBS =
News poll=20
finds a majority of Americans oppose abortions in all or most =
circumstances. The=20
poll follows on the recent surveys showing most Americans believe =
abortions=20
should either be illegal or happen in a very limited set of =
circumstances.=20
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=3D#000000=20
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=3D#000000 =
size=3D3>When asked=20
about their "personal feeling about abortion," 53 percent of respondents =
said=20
all or most abortions should not be permitted and only 43 percent said =
all or=20
most abortions should be permitted. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=3D#000000=20
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=3D#000000 =
size=3D3>Of the 53=20
percent giving a pro-life answer, 33 percent believe abortion should =
only be=20
permitted in the rare cases of rape, incest, or to save the life of the =
mother.=20
Approximately 15 percent only believe abortion should be allowed to save =
the=20
mother's life and 5 percent said abortions should never be permitted.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=3D#000000=20
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" =
color=3D#000000>Of=20
those 43 percent backing abortion, 28 percent believe abortion should be =
allowed=20
in all situations while 15 percent back abortion in all cases but say it =
should=20
be more restricted than it is now. </FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=3D#000000>While 53 percent =
took a=20
pro-life position opposing all or most abortions, some 68 percent of =
those CBS=20
News polled said abortion should be more restricted than it is now.=20
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=3D#000000=20
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=3D#000000 =
size=3D3>Current=20
abortion law, following from the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision, =
allows=20
virtually unrestricted abortions throughout pregnancy.=20
</FONT></DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR>-- <BR> <BR>SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear =
Jesus, I am a=20
sinner and am headed to eternal hell because of my sins. I believe you =
died on=20
the cross to take away my sins and to take me to heaven. Jesus, I ask =
you now to=20
come into my heart and take away my sins and give me eternal life. <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ArmyofGod.com">http://www.ArmyofGod.com</A>=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C59FF0.2E3BB700--
.

User: "Cracklin"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	13 Aug 2005 01:31:16 PM

"Rev. Donald Spitz" <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com> wrote in message
news:%inLe.4363$Co1.166@lakeread01...
And yet, Democrats still say that the American people
are on their side regarding abortions.
==================
How come you never address the issue of those thousands already born and in
foster care that no one wants because they're not healthy white infants?
You never address those already here starving to death and dying of diseases
that are easy to prevent or cure in foreign nations. Once born you wash
your hands of them........ Stinking hypocrite!
--
CR......
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not
based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe."
~ Carl Sagan ~
~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~*
.

User: "osprey"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	13 Aug 2005 01:44:05 PM

Cracklin' wrote:

How do you know he doesn't try to help others? Many religious
organizations donate thousands and even millions to help feed, clothe,
and shelter those who need it. Salvation Army has a lot of religous
volunteers. Many churches donate millions. So do you have some type
of proof that you know this person personally and that he doesn't do
something that is helping those already born? Maybe he runs a foster
home, do you know for sure if he doesn't?
Why are you calling someone a hypocrite on issues you don't know about?
Just because he doesn't "address" it in an "abortion" newsgroup doesn't
mean he doesn't act on it.

--
CR......
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not
based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe."
~ Carl Sagan ~
~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~*

User: "Cracklin"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	13 Aug 2005 11:55:41 PM

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1123958645.128716.176170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

"Rev. Donald Spitz" <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com> wrote in message
news:%inLe.4363$Co1.166@lakeread01...
And yet, Democrats still say that the American people
are on their side regarding abortions.
==================
How come you never address the issue of those thousands already born and
in
foster care that no one wants because they're not healthy white infants?
You never address those already here starving to death and dying of
diseases
that are easy to prevent or cure in foreign nations. Once born you wash
your hands of them........ Stinking hypocrite!

How do you know he doesn't try to help others?

$$ How do you know he does? And if he does, why is he here trying to
coerce women to produce even more unwanted children? Why isn't he on an
adoption group or website looking for adoptive parents to take those already
here?
Many religious

organizations donate thousands and even millions to help feed, clothe,
and shelter those who need it.

$$ As do my husband and myself and we are not religious.
Salvation Army has a lot of religous

volunteers. Many churches donate millions. So do you have some type
of proof that you know this person personally and that he doesn't do
something that is helping those already born?

$$ Then why is here trying to coerce women to produce even more unwanted
children with no chance to be adopted?
Maybe he runs a foster

home, do you know for sure if he doesn't?

$$ How do you know he does? Foster care is far from being in an adoptive
home.

Why are you calling someone a hypocrite on issues you don't know about?

$$ How do YOU know what I know? Are you a mind reader?

Just because he doesn't "address" it in an "abortion" newsgroup doesn't
mean he doesn't act on it.

$$ If he was acting on it he wouldn't have the time to be here trying to
coerce women to add even more unwanted children to the huge load we have
now.
--
CR.....
"Men never do evil so completely and
cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
~ Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) ~
~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~*
.

User: "osprey"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	14 Aug 2005 12:07:41 AM

Cracklin' wrote:

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1123958645.128716.176170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

"Rev. Donald Spitz" <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com> wrote in message
news:%inLe.4363$Co1.166@lakeread01...
And yet, Democrats still say that the American people
are on their side regarding abortions.
==================
How come you never address the issue of those thousands already born and
in
foster care that no one wants because they're not healthy white infants?
You never address those already here starving to death and dying of
diseases
that are easy to prevent or cure in foreign nations. Once born you wash
your hands of them........ Stinking hypocrite!

How do you know he doesn't try to help others?

$$ How do you know he does?

I don't, but then again I am not the one calling him a hypocrite.
And if he does, why is he here trying to

coerce women to produce even more unwanted children?

Who said he is trying to coerce. Has it ever occured to you that maybe
he is trying to help women avoid getting into the situation to begin
with?
Why isn't he on an

adoption group or website looking for adoptive parents to take those already
here?

How do you know if he has or hasn't adopted?

Many religious

organizations donate thousands and even millions to help feed, clothe,
and shelter those who need it.

$$ As do my husband and myself and we are not religious.

Good for you.

Salvation Army has a lot of religous

volunteers. Many churches donate millions. So do you have some type
of proof that you know this person personally and that he doesn't do
something that is helping those already born?

$$ Then why is here trying to coerce women to produce even more unwanted
children with no chance to be adopted?

I have not seen him once try to coerce any women into producing any
unwanted children, have you? Do you have some evidence of this claim
you are trying to make?

Maybe he runs a foster

home, do you know for sure if he doesn't?

$$ How do you know he does?

How do you know he doesn't? Again, let me remined you, it is not I who
is sitting here calling him a hypocrite and making up these
accusations.
Foster care is far from being in an adoptive

home.

It's still taking care of a child.

Why are you calling someone a hypocrite on issues you don't know about?

$$ How do YOU know what I know?

I haven't seen you prove your accusations against him and I don't see
where he is doing any of the things you are claiming. Can you
identify any women you claim he has coerced into having an unwanted
child?

Are you a mind reader?

Again, let me remind you. It is not I who is calling him the hypocrite
and accusing him of doing things. It is you who is doing these things.

Just because he doesn't "address" it in an "abortion" newsgroup doesn't
mean he doesn't act on it.

$$ If he was acting on it he wouldn't have the time to be here trying to
coerce women to add even more unwanted children to the huge load we have
now.

You must be able to provide some type of evidence of this accusation,
you should be able to identify these women. Why haven't you?
.

User: "Cracklin"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	14 Aug 2005 06:36:16 PM

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1123996061.689907.117310@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

How do you know he doesn't try to help others?

$$ How do you know he does?

I don't, but then again I am not the one calling him a hypocrite.

## Then why are you getting involved? Anyone who coerces others to produce
more unwanted children to add to an already failing foster care system is a
hypocrite when they ignore those already here/born.

And if he does, why is he here trying to

coerce women to produce even more unwanted children?

Who said he is trying to coerce. Has it ever occured to you that maybe
he is trying to help women avoid getting into the situation to begin
with?

## Has it occurred to you it doesn't appear that way at all? What is he
doing to teach women about birth control? Nothing that I have seen here.

Why isn't he on an

adoption group or website looking for adoptive parents to take those
already
here?

How do you know if he has or hasn't adopted?

## How do you know if he has or hasn't?

$$ Then why is here trying to coerce women to produce even more unwanted
children with no chance to be adopted?

I have not seen him once try to coerce any women into producing any
unwanted children, have you?

## Yes. Read his posts - he is 100% ANTI-CHOICE.
Do you have some evidence of this claim

you are trying to make?

## Do you have evidence I am wrong?

Maybe he runs a foster

home, do you know for sure if he doesn't?

$$ How do you know he does?

How do you know he doesn't? Again, let me remined you, it is not I who
is sitting here calling him a hypocrite and making up these
accusations.

## Making up what accusations? Does he believe in giving a woman the choice
to abort or not?

Foster care is far from being in an adoptive

home.

It's still taking care of a child.

## Yep,.. they are raped, sexually abused, ignored, neglected, lost in the
system and some are even murdered.... foster care is done for the MONEY, not
the love of unadoptable children.

Why are you calling someone a hypocrite on issues you don't know about?

$$ How do YOU know what I know?

I haven't seen you prove your accusations against him

## And I haven't seen you prove me wrong.
and I don't see

where he is doing any of the things you are claiming. Can you
identify any women you claim he has coerced into having an unwanted
child?

## Can you identify any who didn't?

Are you a mind reader?

Again, let me remind you. It is not I who is calling him the hypocrite
and accusing him of doing things. It is you who is doing these things.

## So you mean I'm wrong and he believes the woman should have a CHOICE to
abort an unwanted fetus?

Just because he doesn't "address" it in an "abortion" newsgroup doesn't
mean he doesn't act on it.

$$ If he was acting on it he wouldn't have the time to be here trying to
coerce women to add even more unwanted children to the huge load we have
now.

You must be able to provide some type of evidence of this accusation,
you should be able to identify these women. Why haven't you?

## Why haven't you produced those he encouraged to make up their own mind to
abort or add another unwanted child to the system? I saw no such posts from
him. Is he or isn't he an ANTI-CHOICER?
--
CR.......
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-= Isaac Asimov =-
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{{�> ~~~~ }<((({�> ~~~~
.

User: "osprey"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	14 Aug 2005 07:17:12 PM

Cracklin' wrote:

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1123996061.689907.117310@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

How do you know he doesn't try to help others?

$$ How do you know he does?

I don't, but then again I am not the one calling him a hypocrite.

## Then why are you getting involved?

Because I see you labeling others without knowing what you are talking
about. I am sure you wouldn't like it if the same was being done to
you.
Anyone who coerces others to produce

more unwanted children to add to an already failing foster care system is a
hypocrite when they ignore those already here/born.

Yea, but that isn't the issue. The issue is you are accusing someone
specifically of coercing women to produce unwanted children and not
caring for those that are already born, and you don't know if that is
true. And certainly you have failed to show one ounce of evidence
proving he or anyone else has coerced one women to produce an unwanted
child.
Have you coerced a woman into killing her unborn child?

And if he does, why is he here trying to

coerce women to produce even more unwanted children?

Who said he is trying to coerce. Has it ever occured to you that maybe
he is trying to help women avoid getting into the situation to begin
with?

## Has it occurred to you it doesn't appear that way at all?

Oh, so based on what you think the appearances are, you just think it's
alright to falsely accuse someone.
What is he

doing to teach women about birth control?

I don't know, do you?

Nothing that I have seen here.

So you just "assume"

Why isn't he on an

adoption group or website looking for adoptive parents to take those
already
here?

How do you know if he has or hasn't adopted?

## How do you know if he has or hasn't?

I am not the one accusing the man, you are and I am asking you if you
know if he has or hasn't adopted. Appears you don't like being wrong so
you just want to switch this around.

$$ Then why is here trying to coerce women to produce even more unwanted
children with no chance to be adopted?

I have not seen him once try to coerce any women into producing any
unwanted children, have you?

## Yes. Read his posts - he is 100% ANTI-CHOICE.

Do you approve of his choice to oppose abortion?
Just because someone doesn't approve of abortion, doesn't mean they
want to coerce women into producing unwanted children.
You do see where you are being ignorant on the issue don't you?

Do you have some evidence of this claim

you are trying to make?

## Do you have evidence I am wrong?

Sorry, but trying to switch the burden isn't going to help you. You
should just be honest enough to admit, you don't know and it was based
on ignorance you went and accused someone.

Maybe he runs a foster

home, do you know for sure if he doesn't?

$$ How do you know he does?

How do you know he doesn't? Again, let me remined you, it is not I who
is sitting here calling him a hypocrite and making up these
accusations.

## Making up what accusations? Does he believe in giving a woman the choice
to abort or not?

Maybe he believes in women not getting into the situation to begin with
and trying to find better ways to educate people.

Foster care is far from being in an adoptive

home.

It's still taking care of a child.

## Yep,.. they are raped, sexually abused, ignored, neglected, lost in the
system and some are even murdered.... foster care is done for the MONEY, not
the love of unadoptable children.

Do you have evidence to support that? I know a few foster homes where
children did better than they would have in their abusive homes they
came from.
But to say that about all foster homes is just as ignorant as you
claiming that someone is coercing women to have unwanted children
because they don't approve of abortion.
Can we safely say that someone who approves of abortion is coercing
women into killing their unwanted children?

Why are you calling someone a hypocrite on issues you don't know about?

$$ How do YOU know what I know?

I haven't seen you prove your accusations against him

## And I haven't seen you prove me wrong.

So you wish to remain ignorant on this.
I am not the one accusing, you are. And just like in our our American
judicial system, the burden of proof lies 100% on the accuser. That
would be you. Right now, you know I have your back against the wall
and you are trying to wiggle out.

and I don't see

where he is doing any of the things you are claiming. Can you
identify any women you claim he has coerced into having an unwanted
child?

## Can you identify any who didn't?

Once again, you fail to understand the concept of burden of proof. You
have accused him, you have to prove your allegation.

Are you a mind reader?

Again, let me remind you. It is not I who is calling him the hypocrite
and accusing him of doing things. It is you who is doing these things.

## So you mean I'm wrong and he believes the woman should have a CHOICE to
abort an unwanted fetus?

I am not going to speak for him. He can speak for himself. I don't
know what he has done or hasn't. You are the one accusing. He just
may very well believe in trying to prevent men and women from getting
into a situation where the choice even has to be made.

Just because he doesn't "address" it in an "abortion" newsgroup doesn't
mean he doesn't act on it.

$$ If he was acting on it he wouldn't have the time to be here trying to
coerce women to add even more unwanted children to the huge load we have
now.

You must be able to provide some type of evidence of this accusation,
you should be able to identify these women. Why haven't you?

## Why haven't you produced those he encouraged to make up their own mind to
abort or add another unwanted child to the system? I saw no such posts from
him. Is he or isn't he an ANTI-CHOICER?

I don't know if he is or isn't, do you approve of everyone's choice?
Are you Anti-Choice?
This space left open for your attempt to turn this all around.
.

User: "Cracklin"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	14 Aug 2005 08:39:39 PM

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1124065032.546641.288280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1123996061.689907.117310@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

How do you know he doesn't try to help others?

$$ How do you know he does?

I don't, but then again I am not the one calling him a hypocrite.

## Then why are you getting involved?

Because I see you labeling others without knowing what you are talking
about.

$$ How would you know if I know what I'm talking about? Are YOU a mind
reader?
I am sure you wouldn't like it if the same was being done to

you.

$$ LOL!!! You are doing it to me. Are there any websites he runs
concerning finding adoptive homes for those already born that are not white
and healthy?

Anyone who coerces others to produce

more unwanted children to add to an already failing foster care system is
a
hypocrite when they ignore those already here/born.

Yea, but that isn't the issue.

## Oh,... so he's really pro-choice?
The issue is you are accusing someone

specifically of coercing women to produce unwanted children and not
caring for those that are already born,

## What is he doing for those already born?
and you don't know if that is

true.

## Prove me wrong.
And certainly you have failed to show one ounce of evidence

proving he or anyone else has coerced one women to produce an unwanted
child.

## Then he is pro-choice? I missed those pro-choice messages somehow....

Have you coerced a woman into killing her unborn child?

## Have you? Has anyone?

Who said he is trying to coerce. Has it ever occured to you that maybe
he is trying to help women avoid getting into the situation to begin
with?

## Has it occurred to you it doesn't appear that way at all?

Oh, so based on what you think the appearances are, you just think it's
alright to falsely accuse someone.

## Like you're doing you mean?

What is he

doing to teach women about birth control?

I don't know, do you?

## Then why are you getting involved if you don't know anything?

Nothing that I have seen here.

So you just "assume"

## Like you're assuming?

How do you know if he has or hasn't adopted?

## How do you know if he has or hasn't?

I am not the one accusing the man, you are and I am asking you if you
know if he has or hasn't adopted. Appears you don't like being wrong so
you just want to switch this around.

## How am I wrong? It looks like you're wrong as usual.

I have not seen him once try to coerce any women into producing any
unwanted children, have you?

## Yes. Read his posts - he is 100% ANTI-CHOICE.

Do you approve of his choice to oppose abortion?

## Do you approve of a woman's choice to choose for herself?

Just because someone doesn't approve of abortion, doesn't mean they
want to coerce women into producing unwanted children.
You do see where you are being ignorant on the issue don't you?

## No, I see where YOU are being ignorant and dishonest as well.

Do you have some evidence of this claim

you are trying to make?

## Do you have evidence I am wrong?

Sorry, but trying to switch the burden isn't going to help you.

## And it wont help you either.
You

should just be honest enough to admit, you don't know and it was based
on ignorance you went and accused someone.

## Just like your IGNORANCE where I'm concerned?

CR...........
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-= Isaac Asimov =-
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{{�> ~~~~ }<((({�> ~~~~
.

User: "osprey"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	14 Aug 2005 09:01:47 PM

Cracklin' wrote:

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1124065032.546641.288280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1123996061.689907.117310@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

How do you know he doesn't try to help others?

$$ How do you know he does?

I don't, but then again I am not the one calling him a hypocrite.

## Then why are you getting involved?

Because I see you labeling others without knowing what you are talking
about.

$$ How would you know if I know what I'm talking about? Are YOU a mind
reader?

I am sure you wouldn't like it if the same was being done to

you.

$$ LOL!!! You are doing it to me. Are there any websites he runs
concerning finding adoptive homes for those already born that are not whi=

and healthy?

Anyone who coerces others to produce

more unwanted children to add to an already failing foster care system=

a
hypocrite when they ignore those already here/born.

Yea, but that isn't the issue.

## Oh,... so he's really pro-choice?

The issue is you are accusing someone

specifically of coercing women to produce unwanted children and not
caring for those that are already born,

## What is he doing for those already born?

Why don't we ask him?
Meanwhile, while we await his answer...let's ask you. What are you
doing for those already born?

and you don't know if that is

true.

## Prove me wrong.

You clearly don't understand the concept of burden of proof. You are
the one who made the accusation, the burden is entirely upon you.

And certainly you have failed to show one ounce of evidence

proving he or anyone else has coerced one women to produce an unwanted
child.

## Then he is pro-choice? I missed those pro-choice messages somehow....

Have you coerced a woman into killing her unborn child?

## Have you? Has anyone?

You sure do avoid the questions asked of you. I am sure that most
people will realize why you take great lengths to avoid them.

Who said he is trying to coerce. Has it ever occured to you that may=

he is trying to help women avoid getting into the situation to begin
with?

## Has it occurred to you it doesn't appear that way at all?

Oh, so based on what you think the appearances are, you just think it's
alright to falsely accuse someone.

## Like you're doing you mean?

I haven't done anything to you. You accused someone of something you
don't know to be true or not true.
Instead of being honest about it, you want to play silly games.

What is he

doing to teach women about birth control?

I don't know, do you?

## Then why are you getting involved if you don't know anything?

Because you are accusing someone of something you don't know to be true
or not true.

Nothing that I have seen here.

So you just "assume"

## Like you're assuming?

Assuming what?
You accused someone of something, there is no assumption. It's a fact.

How do you know if he has or hasn't adopted?

## How do you know if he has or hasn't?

I am not the one accusing the man, you are and I am asking you if you
know if he has or hasn't adopted. Appears you don't like being wrong so
you just want to switch this around.

## How am I wrong?

Do you know if he has adopted?

It looks like you're wrong as usual.

Let's find out. Do you know if he has or hasn't adopted?

I have not seen him once try to coerce any women into producing any
unwanted children, have you?

## Yes. Read his posts - he is 100% ANTI-CHOICE.

Do you approve of his choice to oppose abortion?

## Do you approve of a woman's choice to choose for herself?

Again, another question you ran from.

Just because someone doesn't approve of abortion, doesn't mean they
want to coerce women into producing unwanted children.
You do see where you are being ignorant on the issue don't you?

## No, I see where YOU are being ignorant and dishonest as well.

Oh, simply because I ask you to support your statements. LOL

Do you have some evidence of this claim

you are trying to make?

## Do you have evidence I am wrong?

Sorry, but trying to switch the burden isn't going to help you.

## And it wont help you either.

You

should just be honest enough to admit, you don't know and it was based
on ignorance you went and accused someone.

## Just like your IGNORANCE where I'm concerned?

CR...........
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-=3D Isaac Asimov =3D-
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{{=D2> ~~~~ }<((({=F6> ~~~~

User: "Cracklin"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	15 Aug 2005 12:13:02 AM

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1124071307.577165.261630@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Cracklin' wrote:

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1124065032.546641.288280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1123996061.689907.117310@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

How do you know he doesn't try to help others?

$$ How do you know he does?

I don't, but then again I am not the one calling him a hypocrite.

## Then why are you getting involved?

Because I see you labeling others without knowing what you are talking
about.

$$ How would you know if I know what I'm talking about? Are YOU a mind
reader?

I am sure you wouldn't like it if the same was being done to

you.

$$ LOL!!! You are doing it to me. Are there any websites he runs
concerning finding adoptive homes for those already born that are not
white
and healthy?

Anyone who coerces others to produce

more unwanted children to add to an already failing foster care system
is
a
hypocrite when they ignore those already here/born.

Yea, but that isn't the issue.

## Oh,... so he's really pro-choice?

The issue is you are accusing someone

specifically of coercing women to produce unwanted children and not
caring for those that are already born,

## What is he doing for those already born?

Why don't we ask him?
## After seeing that website? LOL!!! :-D
ile, while we await his answer...let's ask you. What are you
doing for those already born?
## The same thing YOU are.

and you don't know if that is

true.

## Prove me wrong.

You clearly don't understand the concept of burden of proof.
## Nor do you. Each of his posts are proof......
You are
the one who made the accusation, the burden is entirely upon you.
## Good. Prove me wrong.

Have you coerced a woman into killing her unborn child?

## Have you? Has anyone?

You sure do avoid the questions asked of you. I am sure that most
people will realize why you take great lengths to avoid them.
## Which people? Since I'm a female I certainly didn't get anyone pregnant.
How about you?

Oh, so based on what you think the appearances are, you just think it's
alright to falsely accuse someone.

## Like you're doing you mean?

I haven't done anything to you.
## Then I haven't done anything to HIM.
You accused someone of something you
don't know to be true or not true.
## As you accused me........
Instead of being honest about it, you want to play silly games.
## You're the one playing silly games.

What is he

doing to teach women about birth control?

I don't know, do you?

## Then why are you getting involved if you don't know anything?

Because you are accusing someone of something you don't know to be true
or not true.
## As you're accusing me!

Nothing that I have seen here.

So you just "assume"

## Like you're assuming?

Assuming what?
## You're assuming what I'm assuming.........
You accused someone of something, there is no assumption. It's a fact.
## Really? So it's a fact that all you anti-choicers ignore the already
born. I think everyone knows that already.

I am not the one accusing the man, you are and I am asking you if you
know if he has or hasn't adopted. Appears you don't like being wrong so
you just want to switch this around.

## How am I wrong?

Do you know if he has adopted?
## Do you know if he hasn't? Even if he has what is he doing about getting
the thousands of other homeless kids into adoptive families?

It looks like you're wrong as usual.

Let's find out. Do you know if he has or hasn't adopted?
## Lets find out what he's doing to help all the others find adoptive
families.

Do you approve of his choice to oppose abortion?

## Do you approve of a woman's choice to choose for herself?

Again, another question you ran from.
## I'm right HERE. Since you don't answer questions why should I?

Just because someone doesn't approve of abortion, doesn't mean they
want to coerce women into producing unwanted children.
You do see where you are being ignorant on the issue don't you?

## No, I see where YOU are being ignorant and dishonest as well.

Oh, simply because I ask you to support your statements. LOL
## When you wont and don't support yours?

Sorry, but trying to switch the burden isn't going to help you.

## And it wont help you either.

You

should just be honest enough to admit, you don't know and it was based
on ignorance you went and accused someone.

## Just like your IGNORANCE where I'm concerned?

CR...........
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-= Isaac Asimov =-
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{{�> ~~~~ }<((({�> ~~~~
.

User: "osprey"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	15 Aug 2005 12:26:20 AM

Cracklin' wrote:

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1124071307.577165.261630@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1124065032.546641.288280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1123996061.689907.117310@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

How do you know he doesn't try to help others?

$$ How do you know he does?

I don't, but then again I am not the one calling him a hypocrite.

## Then why are you getting involved?

Because I see you labeling others without knowing what you are talking
about.

$$ How would you know if I know what I'm talking about? Are YOU a mind
reader?

I am sure you wouldn't like it if the same was being done to

you.

$$ LOL!!! You are doing it to me. Are there any websites he runs
concerning finding adoptive homes for those already born that are not
white
and healthy?

Anyone who coerces others to produce

more unwanted children to add to an already failing foster care syst=

is
a
hypocrite when they ignore those already here/born.

Yea, but that isn't the issue.

## Oh,... so he's really pro-choice?

The issue is you are accusing someone

specifically of coercing women to produce unwanted children and not
caring for those that are already born,

## What is he doing for those already born?

Why don't we ask him?

## After seeing that website? LOL!!! :-D

So you are afraid to ask him?

ile, while we await his answer...let's ask you. What are you
doing for those already born?

## The same thing YOU are.

Are you going to make a claim?

and you don't know if that is

true.

## Prove me wrong.

You clearly don't understand the concept of burden of proof.

## Nor do you. Each of his posts are proof......

Nope, not one of his post are proof of him coercing any women to have
unwanted children. Granted his stance is radical and I don't
participate in those types of activities, your lying about him isn't
right.

You are
the one who made the accusation, the burden is entirely upon you.

## Good. Prove me wrong.

Prove yourself to be right. You know you can't.

Have you coerced a woman into killing her unborn child?

## Have you? Has anyone?

You can't handle questions can you?

You sure do avoid the questions asked of you. I am sure that most
people will realize why you take great lengths to avoid them.

## Which people? Since I'm a female I certainly didn't get anyone pregna=

nt.

How about you?

My children are alive and well.

Oh, so based on what you think the appearances are, you just think it=

alright to falsely accuse someone.

## Like you're doing you mean?

I haven't done anything to you.

## Then I haven't done anything to HIM.

You accused someone of something you
don't know to be true or not true.

## As you accused me........

I haven't accused you of anything other than lying about Spitz,
claiming he coerced women into having unwanted children when there is
nothing to show to prove that.

Instead of being honest about it, you want to play silly games.

## You're the one playing silly games.

What is he

doing to teach women about birth control?

I don't know, do you?

## Then why are you getting involved if you don't know anything?

Because you are accusing someone of something you don't know to be true
or not true.

## As you're accusing me!

I accused you of lying about someone else, which you have.

Nothing that I have seen here.

So you just "assume"

## Like you're assuming?

Assuming what?

## You're assuming what I'm assuming.........

You accused someone of something, there is no assumption. It's a fact.

## Really? So it's a fact that all you anti-choicers ignore the already
born. I think everyone knows that already.

Anti-choicer? Sorry, but I don't oppose anyones right to making legal
choices. So once again you are lying.
I don't ignore those already born since I take care of those already
born that are my responsibilty.

I am not the one accusing the man, you are and I am asking you if you
know if he has or hasn't adopted. Appears you don't like being wrong =

you just want to switch this around.

## How am I wrong?

Do you know if he has adopted?

## Do you know if he hasn't?

You are the one saying he didn't, so do you know this for sure?
Again, the question asked of you..you can't handle it.
Even if he has what is he doing about getting

the thousands of other homeless kids into adoptive families?

You seem to know, why don't you tell us.

It looks like you're wrong as usual.

Let's find out. Do you know if he has or hasn't adopted?

## Lets find out what he's doing to help all the others find adoptive
families.

Once again, a question asked of you and you run from it.

Do you approve of his choice to oppose abortion?

## Do you approve of a woman's choice to choose for herself?

Again, another question you ran from.

## I'm right HERE. Since you don't answer questions why should I?

No, you ask questions to answer questions. There is a difference. I
asked you a question and you answered it with another question. Typical
of a coward.

Just because someone doesn't approve of abortion, doesn't mean they
want to coerce women into producing unwanted children.
You do see where you are being ignorant on the issue don't you?

## No, I see where YOU are being ignorant and dishonest as well.

Oh, simply because I ask you to support your statements. LOL

## When you wont and don't support yours?

Again, you are the one making the accusations up.

Sorry, but trying to switch the burden isn't going to help you.

## And it wont help you either.

You

should just be honest enough to admit, you don't know and it was based
on ignorance you went and accused someone.

## Just like your IGNORANCE where I'm concerned?

CR...........
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-=3D Isaac Asimov =3D-
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{{=D2> ~~~~ }<((({=F6> ~~~~

User: "Cracklin"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	15 Aug 2005 08:29:13 PM

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1124083580.501768.320650@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

Why don't we ask him?

## After seeing that website? LOL!!! :-D

So you are afraid to ask him?
$$ Are you? Afraid? Why should I be afraid of someone who advocates the
murder of Drs and bombings of clinics? ;-)

ile, while we await his answer...let's ask you. What are you
doing for those already born?

## The same thing YOU are.

Are you going to make a claim?
$$ Are you?

## Nor do you. Each of his posts are proof......

Nope, not one of his post are proof of him coercing any women to have
unwanted children.
$$ Then you haven't read them.
Granted his stance is radical and I don't
participate in those types of activities, your lying about him isn't
right.
$$ What lies? I found nothing anywhere showing this radical pro-murderer,
pro-bomber of innocent people that he does anything for those already born.

You are
the one who made the accusation, the burden is entirely upon you.

## Good. Prove me wrong.

Prove yourself to be right. You know you can't.
$$ I already have - with every post the pro-killer, pro-bomber posted here.
:-)

Have you coerced a woman into killing her unborn child?

## Have you? Has anyone?

You can't handle questions can you?
$$ You can't handle questions can you? All you can do is ask questions.....

You sure do avoid the questions asked of you. I am sure that most
people will realize why you take great lengths to avoid them.

## Which people? Since I'm a female I certainly didn't get anyone
pregnant.
How about you?

My children are alive and well.
$$ So is mine.

You accused someone of something you
don't know to be true or not true.

## As you accused me........

I haven't accused you of anything other than lying about Spitz,
$$ What lies?
claiming he coerced women into having unwanted children when there is
nothing to show to prove that.
$$ Every one of his posts proves it.

## Then why are you getting involved if you don't know anything?

Because you are accusing someone of something you don't know to be true
or not true.

$$ Show me where he's doing anything for those already born? Not one word
on the net .

## As you're accusing me!

I accused you of lying about someone else, which you have.
$$ You only think I'm lying because you refuse to read your good friend's
pro-bomber, pro-Dr.killer messages here.
Snip your boring redundant, idiotic BS!
--
CR.......
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-= Isaac Asimov =-
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{{�> ~~~~ }<((({�> ~~~~
.

User: "Adam H."
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	14 Aug 2005 09:45:08 PM

On 14 Aug 2005 19:01:47 -0700, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

Cracklin' wrote:

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1124065032.546641.288280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1123996061.689907.117310@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Cracklin' wrote:

How do you know he doesn't try to help others?

$$ How do you know he does?

I don't, but then again I am not the one calling him a hypocrite.

## Then why are you getting involved?

Because I see you labeling others without knowing what you are talking
about.

$$ How would you know if I know what I'm talking about? Are YOU a mind
reader?

I am sure you wouldn't like it if the same was being done to

you.

$$ LOL!!! You are doing it to me. Are there any websites he runs
concerning finding adoptive homes for those already born that are not white
and healthy?

Anyone who coerces others to produce

more unwanted children to add to an already failing foster care system is
a
hypocrite when they ignore those already here/born.

Yea, but that isn't the issue.

## Oh,... so he's really pro-choice?

The issue is you are accusing someone

specifically of coercing women to produce unwanted children and not
caring for those that are already born,

## What is he doing for those already born?

Why don't we ask him?

Meanwhile, while we await his answer...let's ask you. What are you
doing for those already born?

and you don't know if that is

true.

## Prove me wrong.

You clearly don't understand the concept of burden of proof. You are
the one who made the accusation, the burden is entirely upon you.

"That too was proven by your lack of proving I was wrong."
That is the standard of evidence that you find to be sufficient. So,
you admit he's right until you prove him wrong. That's just the way it
is, because that's the way you made it - according to you, no proof is
required on his part, is it?
.

User: "Ricky Ticket"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	15 Aug 2005 02:58:04 AM

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:01:47 -0400, osprey wrote
(in message <1124071307.577165.261630@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):

You clearly don't understand the concept of burden of proof.

That's funny, you posted this gem...
--
"That too was already proven by your lack of proving I was wrong." --Osprey
.

User: "Cracklin"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	15 Aug 2005 08:34:24 PM

"Ricky Ticket" <not@given.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BF25C35C000CF3521D4D0480@news.east.earthlink.net...

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:01:47 -0400, osprey wrote
(in message <1124071307.577165.261630@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):

You clearly don't understand the concept of burden of proof.

That's funny, you posted this gem...

--
"That too was already proven by your lack of proving I was
wrong." --Osprey

==========================
What makes me think this Osprey is a poorly educated, unattractive,
unpopular, anti-choice, religious nutter who believes women should know
their place - in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant. This is how the old
men think in deep rural southern towns. They're against abortion because it
lets the women off the hook, allowing her to go on with her life and not
paying the piper for having the gall to have had sex, married or not.
--
CR.....
"I contend that we are both atheists, I just believe in one less god
than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods,
then you
will know why I dismiss yours." -= Stephen F. Roberts =-
~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*
.

User: "Gaia"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	16 Aug 2005 05:25:39 AM

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:34:24 -0500, "Cracklin'" <c@c.c> wrote:
<clip>

What makes me think this Osprey is a poorly educated, unattractive,
unpopular, anti-choice, religious nutter who believes women should know
their place - in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant. This is how the old
men think in deep rural southern towns. They're against abortion because it
lets the women off the hook, allowing her to go on with her life and not
paying the piper for having the gall to have had sex, married or not.

Osprey is a 40-year-old 'man' who hasn't any control of himself, much
less the control over pregnant women.
.

User: "Attila"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	14 Aug 2005 06:12:25 AM

On 13 Aug 2005 11:44:05 -0700, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1123958645.128716.176170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Cracklin' wrote:

How do you know he doesn't try to help others? Many religious
organizations donate thousands and even millions to help feed, clothe,
and shelter those who need it. Salvation Army has a lot of religous
volunteers. Many churches donate millions. So do you have some type
of proof that you know this person personally and that he doesn't do
something that is helping those already born? Maybe he runs a foster
home, do you know for sure if he doesn't?

Why are you calling someone a hypocrite on issues you don't know about?

Just because he doesn't "address" it in an "abortion" newsgroup doesn't
mean he doesn't act on it.

He is a crank and a nutcase. That is well known.
http://www.usd.edu/dmhi/gr/Army_God.html
.

User: "osprey"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	14 Aug 2005 09:58:34 AM

Attila wrote:

On 13 Aug 2005 11:44:05 -0700, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1123958645.128716.176170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Cracklin' wrote:

How do you know he doesn't try to help others? Many religious
organizations donate thousands and even millions to help feed, clothe,
and shelter those who need it. Salvation Army has a lot of religous
volunteers. Many churches donate millions. So do you have some type
of proof that you know this person personally and that he doesn't do
something that is helping those already born? Maybe he runs a foster
home, do you know for sure if he doesn't?

Why are you calling someone a hypocrite on issues you don't know about?

Just because he doesn't "address" it in an "abortion" newsgroup doesn't
mean he doesn't act on it.

He is a crank and a nutcase. That is well known.

http://www.usd.edu/dmhi/gr/Army_God.html

Oh, because he is religious...well..how unbiased of you.
Can you prove the allegations made against him?
Apparentely one of the allegations is that he has coerced women into
having unwanted children. Is there any evidence to support this?
.

User: "LC"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	14 Aug 2005 02:53:57 PM

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1124031514.899273.171760@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

Attila wrote:

On 13 Aug 2005 11:44:05 -0700, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1123958645.128716.176170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Cracklin' wrote:

"Rev. Donald Spitz" <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com> wrote in message
news:%inLe.4363$Co1.166@lakeread01...
And yet, Democrats still say that the American people
are on their side regarding abortions.
==================
How come you never address the issue of those thousands already born
and in foster care that no one wants because they're not healthy white
infants?
You never address those already here starving to death and dying of
diseases that are easy to prevent or cure in foreign nations. Once
born you wash your hands of them........ Stinking hypocrite!

He is a crank and a nutcase. That is well known.
http://www.usd.edu/dmhi/gr/Army_God.html

Oh, because he is religious...well..how unbiased of you.

"Because he is religious..."?
<incredulous head slap that even Heishman could be that dumb>
Ostrich, you *really* should effort yourself to do some homework-for
once-before you send off your neverending string of uninformed 'opinions':
<excerpts from
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=72>:
"The Rev. Donald Spitz has never been a pleasant man. Considered a wild-eyed
extremist even among his colleagues on the radical anti-abortion scene, the
head of Pro-Life Virginia and long-time principal of the Army of God Web
site (www.armyofgod.com) applauds the murderers of physicians, clinic
workers and secretaries.
He rails against "filthy faggots" and "lesbos." Islam is "Satanic," Arabs
are "Rag-Heads," and Muslims "should not be allowed to live in the United
States." New York City is a "sex perverted cesspool" that richly deserved
Sept. 11."
[...]
"Spitz has courted controversy for years. He was kicked out of Operation
Rescue after the first murder of an abortion doctor in 1993. A Pentecostal
minister without a congregation, he has cheered such murders as "righteous,"
posted "war criminal" posters of doctors, and been arrested at clinics.
According to Wrath of Angels, a book on the abortion wars by James Risen and
Judy Thomas, authorities found his name and unlisted phone number in the
possession of John Salvi after Salvi murdered two clinic workers and wounded
five others in 1994.
Last year, Spitz was contacted by Clayton Waagner, who was then a fugitive
who boasted of mailing some fake anthrax threats to abortion clinics. Many
of Waagner's threats were signed "Army of God, Virginia Dare chapter." Dare
was the first white child born in America, and is often romanticized by
white supremacists."
[...]
And don't miss the part about Spitzy's race-baiting, Ostrich.
The "Rev.'s" racist rants fit right in with those of your good friend IBen
/J. Young.
Now, you were saying something about 'religious'...?
LC~ Not surprised that even the obvious flys over Bobby's head without
mussing what's left of his hair.
"If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough."~ Unknown
.

User: "IBen Getiner"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	16 Aug 2005 01:27:09 PM

LC wrote:

23. Loose Cannon May 15, 10:19 pm show options
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: "Loose Cannon" <looseai...@this.com> - Find messages by this
author
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 02:19:04 GMT
Local: Sun, May 15 2005 10:19 pm
Subject: Re: The Greatest Beatles' Concert
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original
| Report Abuse
< re-formatted from web-tv mess>
"Jeff -" <Yourimageunre...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16824-4287B7B9-273@storefull-3336.bay.webtv.net...

looseai...@this.com (Loose Cannon)
"Jeff -" <Yourimageunre...@webtv.net>
wrote in message
news:17479-42877F22-188@storefull-3337.
bay.webtv.net...
looseai...@this.com (Loose Cannon)

<snip>

Let's talk this out:
IBen and Fattuas (sp?)

Hey, if you wanna play defender, at least learn your client's name.

don't even talk alike.
Why do you think they do? Re-read some of their posts.

Uh huh.
This troll has many 'personas', all calculated to stir up sh*t.
If <fattuc...@yahoo.com> hangs around <r.m.b.> long enough, you'll
see.
If you're as interested as you appear to be, Google is your friend:
Don't take my advice. Take "IBen's", if you like:
"Always check Google. Even if the perspective troll lables his or her
postings with the code required for Google not to record it, it is
almost inevitable that someone else in the group will have responded
to them, thereby copying the vanquished post into permenant posterity.
At any rate, a quick search using the person's web address should tell
you much about them. It's fun. I do it to almost everyone I debate
with. And it proves that there are cowardly liars out there.... some
right in here in this very room... who will do almost anything to
avoid a fight." ~ IBen/The Nice Mean Man
Newsgroups: alt.music.neil-young
Subject: Re: AOL Troll (Please Read)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 04:29:48 -0700
Message-ID: <bc123a34.0306240329.2f775098@=ADposting.google.com>
There's plenty more:
"Jon Young":
youngopini...@aol.com, jdyoun...@yahoo.com,

jdyoun...@hotmail.com
"IBen Getiner":
lappc...@aol.com, Lappc...@webtv.net, iappc...@aol.com,
hokkaspok...@webtv.net
dommano...@webtv.net,

hokkazpok...@webtv.net,

Blotterpap...@webtv.net,

"The Nice Mean Man":
Hitherand...@AOL.com,

Then, of course, are his assorted forgeries (all leading back to AOL.
Check
the NNTP's):
loosecan...@hotmail.com, Findin...@aol.com, superassw...@hotmail.com,
loosecanno...@hotmail.com,

,
loosecannon...@hotmail.com
All the same troll.

There's no way they are one and the same person.

No offense, but you're not very computer literate, are you?
Do the multiple NNTP overlaps mean anything to you?
Does the fact that "Fat tuchus" never bothered to defend himself-after
asking for the evidence- make you even mildly suspicious?
Hint: That's exactly how "IBen" and "JYoung" respond.
Or this. Notice how 'fat tuchus' addresses posts?:
"Dear ----"
http://tinyurl.com/bkta2

Surely, web tv must have an 'ignore' feature?
Why not see if you can figure it out?

Because..you post this stuff for everyone to read. I'm allowed therefore
to respond to it...just like you can respond to anything that I write.

That's correct.
However, if you inform yourself before asking questions, you won't be
"wasting" either of our time.

Why do you spend so much time on people
that you claim to dislike so much? It makes
no sense.
And yet, here you are, 'wasting' your time.

I'm "Waisting" my time.

<g>
Another 'fat tuchus' in the making? <g>

P,B, K, webbie?

What?

Pot, kettle, black.

You're wasting your own life.
Hardly.

Look at all of the effort that you took..to paste all of that stuff.

Moments.
http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/

That IS wasting time.

I'd wager your response took longer.

I'll be in Manhattan for a little fun the week
after next and Cozumel for some serious
diving a week after that. You should 'waste'
your time that well, eh?

I've wasted too much time in my life..on people who weren't worth
it..until recently. I'm just saying I hope you don't do the same with
people who you dislike. I'm glad to hear that you are enjoying yourself
though. I'm now talking care of my girlfriend who has cancer..
and is going through Chemo. This isn't easy.

My sympathies.
Been there, done that.
Stage 4 colorectal. Chemo, radiation, clinical trials.
Not a pleasant exit.

Enjoy your life while you are still young.

Every day.

"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted."~ John Lennon
In any event, annoying bigots likeIBenFattuchous is merely a humorous
diversion. This troubles you why, exactly?

Like I said..I just don't understand why you waste time on people you
claim to not like.

You don't need to.
Let's just say I enjoy annoying bigots and forgers.

It's just a comment...and nothing more.
All I can say is..I hope you don't look back one day...and see how much
time you wasted on this.

I appreciate your concern over how I use my time.
However, I'm a fairly efficient multi-tasker.
In fact, I've just booked my dive schedule while responding to your
concerns.

That's all you know. Have a good day.

It's all good.
LC~ Happy, healthy, and enjoying *****-slapping crazy schizo IBen and
his
many sockpuppets. YMMV.
"Right. "Jon."
LC makes far more sense than you ever have. Give it up, loser."~
"IBen" takes a headshot the last time he trolled <r.m.b.> under a new
nick.
From: "Mister Charlie" <smokerdudeTROL...@myway.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: What would Jesus say?
Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 21:12:11 -0700
Message-ID: <c71sg5$ha7m...@ID-63206.news.uni-berlin.de>
.

User: "LC"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	16 Aug 2005 01:36:10 PM

Cowardly lyin' sockpuppeting bigot "IBen Getiner" <Lappcatt@AOL.com>
AKA "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124216829.931886.324400@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<IBenFoundGuilty's tripe dumped>
Well, if it isn't the hit and run troll "IBen Jon Young". I thought you were
in NYC for a few weeks? <BFG>
Just another in a long string of lies, then?
Hey, and what about this, "Jon"?: http://tinyurl.com/bjupd
LC~ Run, "Jon", run!
"Fear is the tax that conscience pays to guilt."~ George Sewell
.

User: "The Chief Instigator"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	16 Aug 2005 11:24:15 PM

"LC" <LCain't@this.com> writes:

I wasn't aware that five days added up to "a few weeks", but then, IBen's got
a unique grip on reality.

Hey, and what about this, "Jon"?: http://tinyurl.com/bjupd

LC~ Run, "Jon", run!

Uff da! ;-)
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2005-06 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Chicago 5, Houston 3 (April 26)
NEXT GAME: Friday, October 7 vs. San Antonio, 7:35
.

User: "LC"
Title: Re: Majority of Americans Oppose Most Abortions, CBS News Poll Show	17 Aug 2005 08:13:13 AM

"The Chief Instigator" <patrick@io.com> wrote in message
news:szky871ry1c.fsf@eris.io.com...

"LC" <LCain't@this.com> writes:

Cowardly lyin' sockpuppeting bigot "IBen Getiner" <Lappcatt@AOL.com>
AKA "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124216829.931886.324400@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<IBenFoundGuilty's tripe dumped>
Well, if it isn't the hit and run troll "IBen Jon Young". I thought you
were in NYC for a few weeks? <BFG>
Just another in a long string of lies, then?

I wasn't aware that five days added up to "a few weeks", but then, IBen's
got a unique grip on reality.

I suspect there's only one thing "IBen" has a grip on, and it's the physical
component of his many shortcomings.

Hey, and what about this, "Jon"?: http://tinyurl.com/bjupd
LC~ Run, "Jon", run!

Uff da! ;-)

<g>

--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2005-06 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Chicago 5, Houston 3 (April 26)
NEXT GAME: Friday, October 7 vs. San Antonio, 7:35