| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Carl" |
| Date: |
17 Jul 2007 06:02:12 PM |
| Object: |
Matthew 7:15 |
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but
inwardly they are ferocious wolves." (Matthew 7:15 NIV)
There are heretics aplenty on Usenet newsgroups. Matthew 7:15 warns us about
false teachers. Prophets of God, in Biblical times, not only referred to
those who foretold future events, those who claimed to be receiving direct
communication from God, and those who spoke for God, but also referred to
teachers of God's message. The Greek word used in Matthew 7:15 for false
prophets is pseudoprofeetoón which, according to New Exhaustive Strong's
Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary means
"pretended foreteller or religious impostor." The McClintock and Strong
Encyclopedia defines the usage in Matthew 7:15 as "one falsely professing to
come as a prophet or ambassador from God, a false teacher." So it is rightly
dividing the Word of God to conclude that Matthew 7:15 includes not only
those who falsely foretell the future, those who falsely claim divine
revelation but also those who teach a false doctrine while claiming it is
the Word of God. Matthew is stating that Christians must be on guard against
people who have the appearance of speaking God's message to them, but in
reality are ravenous wolves. Adam Clarke in his commentary on Matthew 7:15
clarified that it is proper to consider the passage a warning against
teachers of erroneous doctrines.
Noted theologian Albert Barnes put it this way;
"The word prophet originally means one who foretells future events. As
prophets, however, were commonly regarded as public instructors on the
subject of religion, the word came to denote all who were religious
teachers. A false prophet is a teacher of incorrect doctrine, or one falsely
and unjustly laying claims to divine inspiration. It probably had reference
to the false teachers then among the Jews."
(from Barnes' Notes)
Matthew 24:10-11 further warns we Christians that "At that time many will
turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false
prophets will appear and deceive many people." This was aimed directly at
Jesus' disciples however the warning is equally valid in this day and age as
well for we are seeing many turning away from God, espousing false doctrines
and heresies, rejecting Christ and/or teaching a false Christ, embracing
unGodly religions and belief systems. The heretics claiming to be Christian
reveal themselves by their spoiled fruit (i.e. - bad behavior, blasphemous
words, unChristlike actions, etc.) as ravenous wolves. Jesus' warning
resonates just as strongly now as it did when He spoke to His disciples.
It is important to be able to discern false prophets & teachers from true
prophets & teachers for the inability to do so will open the way for
deception and leading astray of new Christians. Furthermore, if a Christian
is able to discern false prophets & teachers from true prophets & teachers
they will not only be helping themselves but will be able to help fellow
Christians as well by warning them of those ferocious wolves attempting to
deceive even the elect (Matthew 24:24).
Those false prophets and teachers give offense to the body of Christ and
according to scripture we are to avoid them (Romans 16:17). We are to reject
the heretics and their heresies that are unBiblical (Titus 3:10,11). Look at
the Scriptures to see if what the person says is true according to the Word
of God. They may have brilliant, marvelously illustrated homiletics, but is
what they say in the Bible? Do the conclusions they're drawing or the cause
they're advancing resonate with what God has already taught us? If not, then
reject their teaching. Also, look at how they present their message and
behave. Do they live what they say? Do they "walk their talk"? Does their
behavior back up what they say? If the teacher uses insults, vulgarities,
hateful words and other clear unGodly words in their posts it should raise
an alarm that the teacher in question may be one of those ferocious wolves
we Christians are warned about in Matthew 7:15. John wrote in 1 John 3:18,
"Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue, but with actions and
in truth." The Usenet heretics are as Shakespeare once wrote, "full of sound
and fury signifying nothing." They attempt to have talk, appearance, flash -
the outward things - but nothing on the inside.
Arthur Pink wrote the following concerning Matthew 7:15 and the exhortation
contained therein:
"If there be any verse in Holy Writ where it is deeply important to observe
(and heed!) its connection it is surely the one at which we have now
arrived. It may appear to the casual reader that our Lord here began an
entirely new subject, having little or no relation to what immediately
precedes. It is true our present verse introduces a distinct section of His
Sermon, yet it also bears directly on what He had just said. Having
described most solemnly and searchingly the way of life, like a faithful
Guide Christ went on to warn us against one of the chief impediments to
walking in that way, namely false guides; those who under the pretence of
offering us Divine directions therein will fatally deceive us if we give
heed thereto. In every age, but never more so than in our own, multitudes of
gullible souls have been allured into the broad road which leads to
destruction by men professing to be teachers of the Truth and ministers of
Christ, yet who had not His Spirit and who were none of His: blind leaders
of the blind, who with their dupes fall into the ditch."
Some will try to obscure the fact that they are a false prophet and teacher
by proclaiming loudly that they never claimed to be a prophet of God nor a
teacher of God's Word however their words mean nothing when it is their
actions that reveal them for what they are. The old addage "if it walks like
a duck and quacks like a duck then it must be a duck" applies in a similar
fashion. When the person in question goes about explaining to others what
the Word of God means in an instructional manner then it is obvious by any
reasonable application that the person is, ipso facto, a teacher. So it is
vitally important for those hearing the teacher or reading the teacher's
words to be able to discern whether what they teach is true or false. And
according to scripture we are to test what is taught via the Bible to make
sure what that teacher is espousing is true or false (Acts 17:11, 1 John
4:1, 1 Corinthians 14:29, 1 Thessalonians 5:21, Revelation 2:2).
Furthermore, if what is being taught by the teacher turns out to be false,
we are to reject that teaching and attempt to correct the teacher in a
gentle yet firm manner but if they reject the correction and continue with
their heresies we are to have nothing further to do with them (Romans 16:17,
2 John 10, Titus 3:10,11).
Those false prophets and teachers on Usenet will try to claim Matthew 7:15
doesn't apply to them. They will attempt to use weak excuses like, "the
definition of prophet only refers to those foretelling the future or one who
claims divine knowledge" when the overall definition as shown above via cite
sources includes false teachers as well. They will attempt to claim that
they never claimed to be a prophet or teacher but their words and actions
show that they have engaged in what they consider true Biblical instruction.
They will arrogantly proclaim "God says that I am right and that you are
wrong" even though what they say is in opposition to Scriptures. They may
even show their hypocrisy and contradictory nature when they proclaim
proudly on one post "You would be better off reading and following my
teachings than the teachings of the sects because mine are more accurate"
but in another post claim "I have never 'claimed' to be a teacher."
Regardless, if they espouse false doctrine (e.g. - heresy) and refuse
correction after multiple attempts by Christians then by Biblical standards
they are a false teacher, a false prophet, a heretic and as such are to be
avoided. Take heed of the exhortation contained within Matthew 7:15 my
fellow Christians and do not be deceived by the Usenet heretics that are so
prevalent today.
.
|
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| User: "Carl" |
|
| Title: Matthew 7:15 |
18 Jul 2007 08:58:07 PM |
|
|
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but
inwardly they are ferocious wolves." (Matthew 7:15 NIV)
There are heretics aplenty on Usenet newsgroups. Matthew 7:15 warns us about
false teachers. Prophets of God, in Biblical times, not only referred to
those who foretold future events, those who claimed to be receiving direct
communication from God, and those who spoke for God, but also referred to
teachers of God's message. The Greek word used in Matthew 7:15 for false
prophets is pseudoprofeetoón which, according to New Exhaustive Strong's
Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary means
"pretended foreteller or religious impostor." The McClintock and Strong
Encyclopedia defines the usage in Matthew 7:15 as "one falsely professing to
come as a prophet or ambassador from God, a false teacher." So it is rightly
dividing the Word of God to conclude that Matthew 7:15 includes not only
those who falsely foretell the future, those who falsely claim divine
revelation but also those who teach a false doctrine while claiming it is
the Word of God. Matthew is stating that Christians must be on guard against
people who have the appearance of speaking God's message to them, but in
reality are ravenous wolves. Adam Clarke in his commentary on Matthew 7:15
clarified that it is proper to consider the passage a warning against
teachers of erroneous doctrines.
Noted theologian Albert Barnes put it this way;
"The word prophet originally means one who foretells future events. As
prophets, however, were commonly regarded as public instructors on the
subject of religion, the word came to denote all who were religious
teachers. A false prophet is a teacher of incorrect doctrine, or one falsely
and unjustly laying claims to divine inspiration. It probably had reference
to the false teachers then among the Jews."
(from Barnes' Notes)
Matthew 24:10-11 further warns we Christians that "At that time many will
turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false
prophets will appear and deceive many people." This was aimed directly at
Jesus' disciples however the warning is equally valid in this day and age as
well for we are seeing many turning away from God, espousing false doctrines
and heresies, rejecting Christ and/or teaching a false Christ, embracing
unGodly religions and belief systems. The heretics claiming to be Christian
reveal themselves by their spoiled fruit (i.e. - bad behavior, blasphemous
words, unChristlike actions, etc.) as ravenous wolves. Jesus' warning
resonates just as strongly now as it did when He spoke to His disciples.
It is important to be able to discern false prophets & teachers from true
prophets & teachers for the inability to do so will open the way for
deception and leading astray of new Christians. Furthermore, if a Christian
is able to discern false prophets & teachers from true prophets & teachers
they will not only be helping themselves but will be able to help fellow
Christians as well by warning them of those ferocious wolves attempting to
deceive even the elect (Matthew 24:24).
Those false prophets and teachers give offense to the body of Christ and
according to scripture we are to avoid them (Romans 16:17). We are to reject
the heretics and their heresies that are unBiblical (Titus 3:10,11). Look at
the Scriptures to see if what the person says is true according to the Word
of God. They may have brilliant, marvelously illustrated homiletics, but is
what they say in the Bible? Do the conclusions they're drawing or the cause
they're advancing resonate with what God has already taught us? If not, then
reject their teaching. Also, look at how they present their message and
behave. Do they live what they say? Do they "walk their talk"? Does their
behavior back up what they say? If the teacher uses insults, vulgarities,
hateful words and other clear unGodly words in their posts it should raise
an alarm that the teacher in question may be one of those ferocious wolves
we Christians are warned about in Matthew 7:15. John wrote in 1 John 3:18,
"Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue, but with actions and
in truth." The Usenet heretics are as Shakespeare once wrote, "full of sound
and fury signifying nothing." They attempt to have talk, appearance, flash -
the outward things - but nothing on the inside.
Arthur Pink wrote the following concerning Matthew 7:15 and the exhortation
contained therein:
"If there be any verse in Holy Writ where it is deeply important to observe
(and heed!) its connection it is surely the one at which we have now
arrived. It may appear to the casual reader that our Lord here began an
entirely new subject, having little or no relation to what immediately
precedes. It is true our present verse introduces a distinct section of His
Sermon, yet it also bears directly on what He had just said. Having
described most solemnly and searchingly the way of life, like a faithful
Guide Christ went on to warn us against one of the chief impediments to
walking in that way, namely false guides; those who under the pretence of
offering us Divine directions therein will fatally deceive us if we give
heed thereto. In every age, but never more so than in our own, multitudes of
gullible souls have been allured into the broad road which leads to
destruction by men professing to be teachers of the Truth and ministers of
Christ, yet who had not His Spirit and who were none of His: blind leaders
of the blind, who with their dupes fall into the ditch."
Some will try to obscure the fact that they are a false prophet and teacher
by proclaiming loudly that they never claimed to be a prophet of God nor a
teacher of God's Word however their words mean nothing when it is their
actions that reveal them for what they are. The old addage "if it walks like
a duck and quacks like a duck then it must be a duck" applies in a similar
fashion. When the person in question goes about explaining to others what
the Word of God means in an instructional manner then it is obvious by any
reasonable application that the person is, ipso facto, a teacher. So it is
vitally important for those hearing the teacher or reading the teacher's
words to be able to discern whether what they teach is true or false. And
according to scripture we are to test what is taught via the Bible to make
sure what that teacher is espousing is true or false (Acts 17:11, 1 John
4:1, 1 Corinthians 14:29, 1 Thessalonians 5:21, Revelation 2:2).
Furthermore, if what is being taught by the teacher turns out to be false,
we are to reject that teaching and attempt to correct the teacher in a
gentle yet firm manner but if they reject the correction and continue with
their heresies we are to have nothing further to do with them (Romans 16:17,
2 John 10, Titus 3:10,11).
Those false prophets and teachers on Usenet will try to claim Matthew 7:15
doesn't apply to them. They will attempt to use weak excuses like, "the
definition of prophet only refers to those foretelling the future or one who
claims divine knowledge" when the overall definition as shown above via cite
sources includes false teachers as well. They will attempt to claim that
they never claimed to be a prophet or teacher but their words and actions
show that they have engaged in what they consider true Biblical instruction.
They will arrogantly proclaim "God says that I am right and that you are
wrong" even though what they say is in opposition to Scriptures. They may
even show their hypocrisy and contradictory nature when they proclaim
proudly on one post "You would be better off reading and following my
teachings than the teachings of the sects because mine are more accurate"
but in another post claim "I have never 'claimed' to be a teacher."
Regardless, if they espouse false doctrine (e.g. - heresy) and refuse
correction after multiple attempts by Christians then by Biblical standards
they are a false teacher, a false prophet, a heretic and as such are to be
avoided. Take heed of the exhortation contained within Matthew 7:15 my
fellow Christians and do not be deceived by the Usenet heretics that are so
prevalent today.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
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| User: "RedFox" |
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| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
19 Jul 2007 01:59:31 AM |
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"The connections between methods of thinking, character structures, and
social order are simple and logical.
They explain why it is that so far all men who comprehended and advocated
the living in one form or another found themselves always outside the ways
of thinking which have governed human society for thousands of years; for
this reason, they have so often suffered and perished"
(Reich)
.
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| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
19 Jul 2007 01:34:33 AM |
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In article <f7mgfj$ea0$1@news.utelfla.com>, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:
It is important to be able to discern false prophets & teachers from true
prophets & teachers for the inability to do so will open the way for
deception and leading astray of new Christians.
So it would appear in Carls case. He is stuck in a fundamentalist
scheinwelt of pseudo reality - a human constructed universe in which
theological speculations and mythology become realistic descriptions of
historical events and physical reality. They are not
This is false understanding - the product of false teaching and
incompetent study
As a Christian - or rather someone who rather pompously assumes he is
automatically one - he has not so much been led astray as never arrived in
the first place. He has no benchmark for truth and in place of that
standard he substitutes a superstitious belief in the bible as reveale
truth
Passage after passage show that the Bible is far from being that. Much of
it is quite horrifyingingly cruel advocating ethnic cleansing and the
genocide of whole tribes in the supposedly "promised land"
There are invocations the God induce the smashing of little childrens'
heads on rocks and instructions as to how to dispose of ***** on a
battlefield.
For a pseudo Christian of carl's type to tell others to beware of false
teachings - teachings he himself has swallowed hook line and sinker - is a
display of arrogance and appalling self deception
Lies in fact.
But then that is what Fundamentalism is all about
Lies
.
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| User: "Carl" |
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| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
19 Jul 2007 06:56:34 PM |
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"<~(Hey, WhaddyaKnow?JesusSaysI'mAWhosoeverToo!)~>"
<ontheskagit@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1184873115.643854.248940@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 18, 11:34 pm, (RedFox) wrote:
For a pseudo Christian of carl's type to tell others to beware of false
teachings - teachings he himself has swallowed hook line and sinker - is
a
display of arrogance and appalling self deception
Since you are anti-Christianity (as the Bible teaches) and anti-Bible
(as the Word of God), how can you presume to be qualified to proclaim
someone a false version of something you don't even believe in?
Answer: RedFox can't. That's why RedFox's opinion on the matter is
meaningless and moot.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
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| User: "Glenn" |
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| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
17 Jul 2007 07:13:00 PM |
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Carl wrote:
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but
inwardly they are ferocious wolves." (Matthew 7:15 NIV)
There are heretics aplenty on Usenet newsgroups. Matthew 7:15 warns us about
false teachers. Prophets of God, in Biblical times, not only referred to
those who foretold future events, those who claimed to be receiving direct
communication from God, and those who spoke for God, but also referred to
teachers of God's message. The Greek word used in Matthew 7:15 for false
prophets is pseudoprofeetoón which, according to New Exhaustive Strong's
Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary means
"pretended foreteller or religious impostor."
Clip to point.
Regardless, if they espouse false doctrine (e.g. - heresy) and refuse
correction after multiple attempts by Christians then by Biblical standards
they are a false teacher, a false prophet, a heretic and as such are to be
avoided. Take heed of the exhortation contained within Matthew 7:15 my
fellow Christians and do not be deceived by the Usenet heretics that are so
prevalent today.
I will pretty much agree with your post... and add just one detail.
"Heresy" is "other doctrine."
NOT just some doctrine not approved by the currently in power religious
establishment, but "other doctrine" NOT taught by Christ to His
Disciples, NOT taught by the Apostles to the First Century Church, and
NOT recorded in the pages of the New Testament.
Therefore, some doctrine that came into being 170, 325, 381 years AFTER
Christ can NOT be doctrine taught BY Christ, and MUST BE OTHER DOCTRINE
-- ergo, Heresy!
The Doctrine of the immaculate conception is Heresy.
The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is Heresy.
The 'doctrine of the rapture' is Heresy.
The doctrine of a millennial reign of Christ on this earth is Heresy.
The doctrine of a triune god is heresy!
History of The Trinity
The growth of the doctrine of a triune God, is briefly but plainly, set
forth in the following facts:
A.D. 29 Jesus said, "The Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29).
A.D. 57 Paul said, "To us there is but one God" (1 Cor. 8:6).
A.D. 96 Clement said, "Christ was sent by God".
A.D. 120 "Apostles' Creed": "I believe in God the Father".
A.D. 150 Justin Martyr, introduces Greek Philosophy.
A.D. 170 The word "Trias", appears first in Christian literature.
A.D. 200. "Trinitas" is first introduced by Tertullian.
A.D. 280 Origen, opposes prayers to Christ.
A.D. 260 Sabellius: "Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three names for the
same God".
A.D. 300 Trinitarian prayers unknown in the Church.
A.D. 325 "Nicene Creed" afflrms Christ to be "Very God of Very God".
A.D. 370 Doxology composed.
A.D. 381. Council of Constantinople invents "Three persons in One God".
A.D. 388 Emperor Theodosius threatens punishment to all who won't
worship the Trinity.
-+-
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "Absolute Ruler."
There is One God.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28,
[KJV] Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast
said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
[KJV] I Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of
whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
are all things, and we by him.
[KJV] I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "God" is a "Kind of Being"
Jesus said, "God is a Spirit." John 4:24 (KJV, ASV, YLT and Darby)
God the Father is a Spirit Being, The Spirit of God IS God
The Son is the same Kind of Being of His Father.
The Father is Eternal Spirit, therefore the Son is Eternal Spirit.
The Father is [Kind of Being] God,
Therefore the Son is [Kind of Being] God.
The Son is God [Title of Authority] because His father gave Him ALL
Authority and ALL Power and sat Him on His Throne and told Him to Rule.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18 and 1 Cor 15:24-28
Bible Facts about God
http://tinyurl.com/2lw6ev
Glenn
His witness
--
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
Note, the site at xprt.net will close 1Sept07 and open as
www.thelittlebookopened.org [Key words:] "The Little Book";
Glenn McClary, servitum, gaedhealic, oldwetdog
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
18 Jul 2007 11:10:00 AM |
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On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:13:00 -0700, Glenn <gamcclary@spiritone.com>
wrote:
Carl wrote:
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but
inwardly they are ferocious wolves." (Matthew 7:15 NIV)
There are heretics aplenty on Usenet newsgroups. Matthew 7:15 warns us about
false teachers. Prophets of God, in Biblical times, not only referred to
those who foretold future events, those who claimed to be receiving direct
communication from God, and those who spoke for God, but also referred to
teachers of God's message. The Greek word used in Matthew 7:15 for false
prophets is pseudoprofeetoón which, according to New Exhaustive Strong's
Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary means
"pretended foreteller or religious impostor."
Clip to point.
Regardless, if they espouse false doctrine (e.g. - heresy) and refuse
correction after multiple attempts by Christians then by Biblical standards
they are a false teacher, a false prophet, a heretic and as such are to be
avoided. Take heed of the exhortation contained within Matthew 7:15 my
fellow Christians and do not be deceived by the Usenet heretics that are so
prevalent today.
I will pretty much agree with your post... and add just one detail.
"Heresy" is "other doctrine."
Heresy,
"Any opinions or doctrines at variance with the official or orthodox
position"
"A belief that rejects the orthodox tenets of a religion"
NOT just some doctrine not approved by the currently in power religious
establishment, but "other doctrine" NOT taught by Christ to His
Disciples, NOT taught by the Apostles to the First Century Church, and
NOT recorded in the pages of the New Testament.
Therefore, some doctrine that came into being 170, 325, 381 years AFTER
Christ can NOT be doctrine taught BY Christ, and MUST BE OTHER DOCTRINE
-- ergo, Heresy!
Your definition is too narrow, but your conclusion is correct to this
point.
The Doctrine of the immaculate conception is Heresy.
The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is Heresy.
The 'doctrine of the rapture' is Heresy.
The doctrine of a millennial reign of Christ on this earth is Heresy.
The doctrine of a triune god is heresy!
Not true. The concept is Biblical and was believed by the Apostles.
The Bible teaches that
The Father is God
Jesus is God (John 1:1, Col 2:9, etc etc etc)
The Holy Ghost is God (Acts 5:3-5)
And there is ONLY ONE GOD (Isaiah 43:10)
And we call THAT concept, Trinity.
I <snipped> your history of how the label came to be.
-+-
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "Absolute Ruler."
There is One God.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28,
[KJV] Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast
said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
[KJV] I Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of
whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
are all things, and we by him.
[KJV] I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "God" is a "Kind of Being"
Jesus said, "God is a Spirit." John 4:24 (KJV, ASV, YLT and Darby)
No, that is NOT any "scriptural definition."
God
"THE supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and
omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship
in monotheistic religions.
And all of the translations other than the outdated ones you chose to
use say "God IS Spirit," and in the Greek it means literally that God
IS COMPOSED OF Spirit, not that He is one of many spirits.
God the Father is a Spirit Being, The Spirit of God IS God
The Son is the same Kind of Being of His Father.
The Father is Eternal Spirit, therefore the Son is Eternal Spirit.
The Father is [Kind of Being] God,
Therefore the Son is [Kind of Being] God.
The Son is God [Title of Authority] because His father gave Him ALL
Authority and ALL Power and sat Him on His Throne and told Him to Rule.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18 and 1 Cor 15:24-28
Jesus is God just as I am man. Man is not "a title of authority," but
is a noun describing WHAT I am. God is not "a title of authority,"
but is a noun discribing WHAT Jesus is.
So what do YOU think Jesus was?
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
.
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| User: "Warhol" |
|
| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
18 Jul 2007 11:38:45 AM |
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<checker@flapper.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
mv7s935nr53q2a8tf3dl6t4t2bam9ruibv@4ax.com...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:13:00 -0700, Glenn <gamcclary@spiritone.com>
wrote:
Carl wrote:
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing,
but
inwardly they are ferocious wolves." (Matthew 7:15 NIV)
There are heretics aplenty on Usenet newsgroups. Matthew 7:15 warns us
about
false teachers. Prophets of God, in Biblical times, not only referred
to
those who foretold future events, those who claimed to be receiving
direct
communication from God, and those who spoke for God, but also referred
to
teachers of God's message. The Greek word used in Matthew 7:15 for
false
prophets is pseudoprofeeton which, according to New Exhaustive Strong's
Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary means
"pretended foreteller or religious impostor."
Clip to point.
Regardless, if they espouse false doctrine (e.g. - heresy) and refuse
correction after multiple attempts by Christians then by Biblical
standards
they are a false teacher, a false prophet, a heretic and as such are to
be
avoided. Take heed of the exhortation contained within Matthew 7:15 my
fellow Christians and do not be deceived by the Usenet heretics that
are so
prevalent today.
I will pretty much agree with your post... and add just one detail.
"Heresy" is "other doctrine."
Heresy,
"Any opinions or doctrines at variance with the official or orthodox
position"
"A belief that rejects the orthodox tenets of a religion"
NOT just some doctrine not approved by the currently in power religious
establishment, but "other doctrine" NOT taught by Christ to His
Disciples, NOT taught by the Apostles to the First Century Church, and
NOT recorded in the pages of the New Testament.
Therefore, some doctrine that came into being 170, 325, 381 years AFTER
Christ can NOT be doctrine taught BY Christ, and MUST BE OTHER DOCTRINE
-- ergo, Heresy!
Your definition is too narrow, but your conclusion is correct to this
point.
The Doctrine of the immaculate conception is Heresy.
The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is Heresy.
The 'doctrine of the rapture' is Heresy.
The doctrine of a millennial reign of Christ on this earth is Heresy.
The doctrine of a triune god is heresy!
Not true. The concept is Biblical and was believed by the Apostles.
The Bible teaches that
The Father is God
Jesus is God (John 1:1, Col 2:9, etc etc etc)
The Holy Ghost is God (Acts 5:3-5)
And there is ONLY ONE GOD (Isaiah 43:10)
And we call THAT concept, Trinity.
I <snipped> your history of how the label came to be.
-+-
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "Absolute Ruler."
There is One God.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28,
[KJV] Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast
said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
[KJV] I Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of
whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
are all things, and we by him.
[KJV] I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "God" is a "Kind of Being"
Jesus said, "God is a Spirit." John 4:24 (KJV, ASV, YLT and Darby)
No, that is NOT any "scriptural definition."
God
"THE supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and
omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship
in monotheistic religions.
And all of the translations other than the outdated ones you chose to
use say "God IS Spirit," and in the Greek it means literally that God
IS COMPOSED OF Spirit, not that He is one of many spirits.
God the Father is a Spirit Being, The Spirit of God IS God
The Son is the same Kind of Being of His Father.
The Father is Eternal Spirit, therefore the Son is Eternal Spirit.
The Father is [Kind of Being] God,
Therefore the Son is [Kind of Being] God.
The Son is God [Title of Authority] because His father gave Him ALL
Authority and ALL Power and sat Him on His Throne and told Him to Rule.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18 and 1 Cor 15:24-28
Jesus is God just as I am man. Man is not "a title of authority," but
is a noun describing WHAT I am. God is not "a title of authority,"
but is a noun discribing WHAT Jesus is.
So what do YOU think Jesus was?
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
The Hand of God/Allah/MESBAH who created all things out of nothing... Jesus
is the technician who did the works UNDER SUPERVISION of the greatest
infinite mind, who rulls over all Universums... The Eternal LIGHT who's Name
I carrie...
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
20 Jul 2007 09:52:24 AM |
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:38:45 +0200, "Warhol" <molarh@hotmail.com>
wrote:
<checker@flapper.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
mv7s935nr53q2a8tf3dl6t4t2bam9ruibv@4ax.com...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:13:00 -0700, Glenn <gamcclary@spiritone.com>
wrote:
Carl wrote:
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing,
but
inwardly they are ferocious wolves." (Matthew 7:15 NIV)
There are heretics aplenty on Usenet newsgroups. Matthew 7:15 warns us
about
false teachers. Prophets of God, in Biblical times, not only referred
to
those who foretold future events, those who claimed to be receiving
direct
communication from God, and those who spoke for God, but also referred
to
teachers of God's message. The Greek word used in Matthew 7:15 for
false
prophets is pseudoprofeeton which, according to New Exhaustive Strong's
Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary means
"pretended foreteller or religious impostor."
Clip to point.
Regardless, if they espouse false doctrine (e.g. - heresy) and refuse
correction after multiple attempts by Christians then by Biblical
standards
they are a false teacher, a false prophet, a heretic and as such are to
be
avoided. Take heed of the exhortation contained within Matthew 7:15 my
fellow Christians and do not be deceived by the Usenet heretics that
are so
prevalent today.
I will pretty much agree with your post... and add just one detail.
"Heresy" is "other doctrine."
Heresy,
"Any opinions or doctrines at variance with the official or orthodox
position"
"A belief that rejects the orthodox tenets of a religion"
NOT just some doctrine not approved by the currently in power religious
establishment, but "other doctrine" NOT taught by Christ to His
Disciples, NOT taught by the Apostles to the First Century Church, and
NOT recorded in the pages of the New Testament.
Therefore, some doctrine that came into being 170, 325, 381 years AFTER
Christ can NOT be doctrine taught BY Christ, and MUST BE OTHER DOCTRINE
-- ergo, Heresy!
Your definition is too narrow, but your conclusion is correct to this
point.
The Doctrine of the immaculate conception is Heresy.
The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is Heresy.
The 'doctrine of the rapture' is Heresy.
The doctrine of a millennial reign of Christ on this earth is Heresy.
The doctrine of a triune god is heresy!
Not true. The concept is Biblical and was believed by the Apostles.
The Bible teaches that
The Father is God
Jesus is God (John 1:1, Col 2:9, etc etc etc)
The Holy Ghost is God (Acts 5:3-5)
And there is ONLY ONE GOD (Isaiah 43:10)
And we call THAT concept, Trinity.
I <snipped> your history of how the label came to be.
-+-
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "Absolute Ruler."
There is One God.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28,
[KJV] Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast
said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
[KJV] I Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of
whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
are all things, and we by him.
[KJV] I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "God" is a "Kind of Being"
Jesus said, "God is a Spirit." John 4:24 (KJV, ASV, YLT and Darby)
No, that is NOT any "scriptural definition."
God
"THE supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and
omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship
in monotheistic religions.
And all of the translations other than the outdated ones you chose to
use say "God IS Spirit," and in the Greek it means literally that God
IS COMPOSED OF Spirit, not that He is one of many spirits.
God the Father is a Spirit Being, The Spirit of God IS God
The Son is the same Kind of Being of His Father.
The Father is Eternal Spirit, therefore the Son is Eternal Spirit.
The Father is [Kind of Being] God,
Therefore the Son is [Kind of Being] God.
The Son is God [Title of Authority] because His father gave Him ALL
Authority and ALL Power and sat Him on His Throne and told Him to Rule.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18 and 1 Cor 15:24-28
Jesus is God just as I am man. Man is not "a title of authority," but
is a noun describing WHAT I am. God is not "a title of authority,"
but is a noun discribing WHAT Jesus is.
So what do YOU think Jesus was?
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
The Hand of God/Allah/MESBAH who created all things out of nothing... Jesus
is the technician who did the works UNDER SUPERVISION of the greatest
infinite mind, who rulls over all Universums... The Eternal LIGHT who's Name
I carrie...
So what are you, a universalist? You think that the God of the bible
is the allah of the qur'an and mesbah of wherever are all the "same
god?"
Not according to the God of the Bible.
in Christ Jesus,
Checker
.
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| User: "RedFox" |
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| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
20 Jul 2007 08:42:05 PM |
|
|
In article <tui1a3dodktoekae1gp50ctg1po6bb865v@4ax.com>,
checker@flapper.com wrote:
Not according to the God of the Bible.
The God of the Bible never says a thing
Men do
The Bible is written by men - not by God - It is theological speculation
and not history
Live with it
========
"There are some lessons from the Bible that when read you want to say,
"This is the Word of the Lord?"
I think of God slaying the first-born male in every Egyptian household on
the night of the Passover, of Samuel instructing King Saul to practice
genocide on the Amalekites or even Elisha calling out some she bears to
eat up some little boys who have insulted him. If that is the word of God,
I want nothing to do with that deity. The phrase, "This is the Word of
God" comes out of that period of history before biblical scholarship and
higher criticism began. It is terribly misleading and ought to be
abandoned.
When I was an active bishop, I borrowed a phrase from the New Zealand
Anglican prayer book and closed lessons by saying, "Hear what the Spirit
is saying to the Church."
Sometimes I'm convinced the Spirit is saying, "Please do not take these
words literally" or "These words are not worthy of the God we meet in
Jesus of Nazareth."
The Church teaches through its liturgy. We need to look carefully at what
that teaching is and move to modify it wherever necessary."
(Spong)
.
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| User: "~Hey, WhaddyaKnow?JesusSaysImAWhosoeverToo!~" |
|
| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
20 Jul 2007 09:22:20 PM |
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On Jul 20, 6:42 pm, (RedFox) wrote:
In article <tui1a3dodktoekae1gp50ctg1po6bb8...@4ax.com>,
chec...@flapper.com wrote:
Not according to the God of the Bible.
The God of the Bible never says a thing
Men do
The Bible is written by men - not by God - It is theological speculation
and not history
Live with it
If you truly believe this, why do you exclusively hang out in the
Christian groups?
.
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| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
21 Jul 2007 05:39:01 AM |
|
|
In article <1184984540.488893.250460@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
"<~(Hey, WhaddyaKnow?JesusSaysI'mAWhosoeverToo!)~>"
<ontheskagit@verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 20, 6:42 pm, (RedFox) wrote:
In article <tui1a3dodktoekae1gp50ctg1po6bb8...@4ax.com>,
chec...@flapper.com wrote:
Not according to the God of the Bible.
The God of the Bible never says a thing
Men do
The Bible is written by men - not by God - It is theological speculation
and not history
Live with it
If you truly believe this, why do you exclusively hang out in the
Christian groups?
I don't
I'm off to the pub now
.
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| User: "Glenn" |
|
| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
18 Jul 2007 12:24:50 PM |
|
|
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:13:00 -0700, Glenn <gamcclary@spiritone.com>
wrote:
"Heresy" is "other doctrine."
Heresy,
"Any opinions or doctrines at variance with the official or orthodox
position"
"A belief that rejects the orthodox tenets of a religion"
NOT just some doctrine not approved by the currently in power religious
establishment, but "other doctrine" NOT taught by Christ to His
Disciples, NOT taught by the Apostles to the First Century Church, and
NOT recorded in the pages of the New Testament.
Therefore, some doctrine that came into being 170, 325, 381 years AFTER
Christ can NOT be doctrine taught BY Christ, and MUST BE OTHER DOCTRINE
-- ergo, Heresy!
Your definition is too narrow, but your conclusion is correct to this
point.
My definition is Scriptural, while you offer the definition used by the
Pope to murder those who resisted the Catholic Heresy for almost 1400 years!
The Doctrine of the immaculate conception is Heresy.
The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is Heresy.
The 'doctrine of the rapture' is Heresy.
The doctrine of a millennial reign of Christ on this earth is Heresy.
The doctrine of a triune god is heresy!
Not true.
You are wrong.
The concept is Biblical and was believed by the Apostles.
This is a lie, just like the Lie that Peter was the first Pope of the
Roman Catholic Church. Nothing written by the Apostles suggests that
Jesus taught them the lie of a triune god.
The Bible teaches that The Father is God
Definition of the TERM "God" is "kind of Being.'
Jesus said, God is a Spirit." KJV John 4:24.
Jesus is God (John 1:1, Col 2:9, etc etc etc)
Definition of the TERM "God" is "Absolute or Supreme Ruler."
God the Father Gave His Son ALL Authority and ALL Power and Rule!
Ps 110:1-2. Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28.
The Holy Ghost is God (Acts 5:3-5)
Correct: the Spirit of God IS God, not a 'persona' of a multiple
personality being!
Definition of the TERM "God" is "Kind of Being.
Jesus said, "God is a Spirit" KJV John 4:24
God the Father and the Spirit of God IS God.
And there is ONLY ONE GOD (Isaiah 43:10)
Definition of the TERM "God" is "Absolute or Supreme Ruler."
God the Father Gave His Son ALL Authority and ALL Power and Rule!
Ps 110:1-2. Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28.
And we call THAT concept, Trinity.
Call it what you will, it is a false doctrine created after 170 AD, 325,
381 AD.
I <snipped> your history of how the label came to be.
No, you snipped the history of how the DOCTRINE came to be developed and
imposed upon God's People by the heresy of the Catholic Church.
Why snip it? because you want to deny it?
-+-
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "Absolute Ruler."
There is One God.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28,
[KJV] Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast
said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
[KJV] I Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of
whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
are all things, and we by him.
[KJV] I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "God" is a "Kind of Being"
Jesus said, "God is a Spirit." John 4:24 (KJV, ASV, YLT and Darby)
No, that is NOT any "scriptural definition."
Do you deny the very Word of Jesus?
John 4:24
God
"THE supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and
omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship
in monotheistic religions.
Your definition attempts to mix two definitions into a single meaning,
and the Father and His Son into a single being...
And all of the translations other than the outdated ones you chose to
use say "God IS Spirit,"
Fine: "God is Spirit" is still describing the Kind of Being God IS,
rather than His Title of Authority.
and in the Greek it means literally that God
IS COMPOSED OF Spirit, not that He is one of many spirits.
Which is still describing the Kind of Being God IS.
Who said "one of many spirits"
However, now that YOU have brought up that question: Did God create
other spirits?
If God created other spirits, is He then One Spirit of many spirits?
God the Father is a Spirit Being, The Spirit of God IS God
The Son is the same Kind of Being of His Father.
The Father is Eternal Spirit, therefore the Son is Eternal Spirit.
The Father is [Kind of Being] God,
Therefore the Son is [Kind of Being] God.
The Son is God [Title of Authority] because His father gave Him ALL
Authority and ALL Power and sat Him on His Throne and told Him to Rule.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18 and 1 Cor 15:24-28
Jesus is God just as I am man.
Why are you man? Are you man because you were begotten of a man?
Is Jesus the same Nature and Essence of the Being who Fathered Him?
Man is not "a title of authority," but
is a noun describing WHAT I am. God is not "a title of authority,"
but is a noun discribing WHAT Jesus is.
"WHAT" Jesus is, IS the KIND of Being He is, and THAT is the same kind
of Being His Father IS, and That is "God is Spirit."
Of course "God" is a Title of Authority! Do you deny the very Word of
God? Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28,
KJV] Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and
the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The
Prince of Peace.
"His name shall be called, "the mighty God"...
His Name is His Title, (Just as we call Presidents "Mr. President,) not
a term defining His being.
So what do YOU think Jesus was?
What?
Did you read my post?
NO? Then let me explain again!
I believe EVERY Word of God given to describe and reveal Him Self, His
Spirit and Son to His People.
So actually, what your question is, is "What and Who does the Word of
God say Jesus is?"
Allow me to explain:
ONE GOD
* Matthew 4:10: "Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is
written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."'"
* John 17:3: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the
only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
* 1Corinthians 8:5-6: "For even if there are so-called gods, whether
in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many
"lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all
things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus
Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."
* 1Timothy 2:5: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus"
* James 2:19: "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the
demons believe that—and shudder."
SON AND FATHER
* Mark 13:32:"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the
angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
* John 5:19: "Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth,
the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his
Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."
* John 14:28: "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming
back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the
Father, for the Father is greater than I."
* John 17:20-23: "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for
those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may
be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be
in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given
them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I
in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the
world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
* Colossians 1:15: "He is the image of the invisible God, the
firstborn over all creation."
* 1stCorinthians 15:24-28: "Then the end will come, when he hands
over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion,
authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies
under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put
everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been
put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who
put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself
will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God
may be all in all."
OLD TESTAMENT
* John 2:16: And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things
hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
* Acts 3:13: The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God
of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up...
* John 20:17: Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet
ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I
ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.
* Daniel 7:13: I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like
the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient
of days, and they brought him near before him.
* Psalms 110:1: Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right
hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
ONTOLOGICAL DIFFERENCES
* John 17:1-3 Jesus prays to God.
* Hebrews 2:17,18 Hebrews 3:2 Jesus has faith in God.
* Acts 3:13 Jesus is a servant of God.
* Mark 13:32 Revelation 1:1 Jesus does not know things God knows.
* John 4:22 Jesus worships God.
* Revelation 3:12 Jesus has one who is God to him.
* 1stCorinthians 15:28 Jesus is in subjection to God.
* 1stCorinthians 11:1 Jesus' head is God.
* Hebrews 5:7 Jesus has reverent submission, fear, of God.
* Acts 2:36 Jesus is given lordship by God.
* Acts 5:31 Jesus is exalted by God.
* Hebrews 5:10 Jesus is made high priest by God.
* Philippians 2:9 Jesus is given authority by God.
* Luke 1:32,33 Jesus is given kingship by God.
* Acts 10:42 Jesus is given judgment by God.
* Acts 2:24, Romans 10.9, 1 Cor 15:15 "God raised [Jesus] from the
dead".
* Mark 16:19, Luke 22:69, Acts 2:33, Romans 8:34 Jesus is at the
right hand of God.
* 1 Tim 2:5 Jesus is the one human mediator between the one God and man.
* 1 Cor 15:24-28 God put everything, except Himself, under Jesus.
--+--
In the Name of Jesus
Glenn
--
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
Note, the site at xprt.net will close 1Sept07 and open as
www.thelittlebookopened.org [Key words:] "The Little Book";
Glenn McClary, servitum, gaedhealic, oldwetdog
.
|
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
21 Jul 2007 11:56:52 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:24:50 -0700, Glenn <gamcclary@spiritone.com>
wrote:
checker@flapper.com wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:13:00 -0700, Glenn <gamcclary@spiritone.com>
wrote:
"Heresy" is "other doctrine."
Heresy,
"Any opinions or doctrines at variance with the official or orthodox
position"
"A belief that rejects the orthodox tenets of a religion"
NOT just some doctrine not approved by the currently in power religious
establishment, but "other doctrine" NOT taught by Christ to His
Disciples, NOT taught by the Apostles to the First Century Church, and
NOT recorded in the pages of the New Testament.
Therefore, some doctrine that came into being 170, 325, 381 years AFTER
Christ can NOT be doctrine taught BY Christ, and MUST BE OTHER DOCTRINE
-- ergo, Heresy!
Your definition is too narrow, but your conclusion is correct to this
point.
My definition is Scriptural, while you offer the definition used by the
Pope to murder those who resisted the Catholic Heresy for almost 1400 years!
Try again. . .I quoted a DICTIONARY, put together by LINGUISTS. YOUR
definition came only from YOUR MIND.
The Doctrine of the immaculate conception is Heresy.
The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is Heresy.
The 'doctrine of the rapture' is Heresy.
The doctrine of a millennial reign of Christ on this earth is Heresy.
The doctrine of a triune god is heresy!
Not true.
You are wrong.
Keep chanting your mantra, you might believe it someday. . .
The concept is Biblical and was believed by the Apostles.
This is a lie, just like the Lie that Peter was the first Pope of the
Roman Catholic Church. Nothing written by the Apostles suggests that
Jesus taught them the lie of a triune god.
You choose to ignore the truth. It is easy to call the truth a lie,
but you cannot support your position from scripture.
The Bible teaches that The Father is God
Definition of the TERM "God" is "kind of Being.'
Jesus said, God is a Spirit." KJV John 4:24.
Most translations show that it should be translated "God IS spirit."
That is what God is composed of. Not "a kind of being."
From the Dictionary:
GOD
"The supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and
omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship
in monotheistic religions"
No "kind of being" in any dictionary I could find.
YOUR "daffynition" is wrong.
Jesus is God (John 1:1, Col 2:9, etc etc etc)
Definition of the TERM "God" is "Absolute or Supreme Ruler."
God the Father Gave His Son ALL Authority and ALL Power and Rule!
Ps 110:1-2. Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28.
The Holy Ghost is God (Acts 5:3-5)
Correct: the Spirit of God IS God, not a 'persona' of a multiple
personality being!
Definition of the TERM "God" is "Kind of Being.
Jesus said, "God is a Spirit" KJV John 4:24
He said "God IS spirit." He did NOT SAY "God is a kind of being."
You CANNOT use the WORD "GOD" to DEFINE the WORD "GOD."
It is VERY CLEAR that you want to make up your own daffynition.
God the Father and the Spirit of God IS God.
And there is ONLY ONE GOD (Isaiah 43:10)
Definition of the TERM "God" is "Absolute or Supreme Ruler."
God the Father Gave His Son ALL Authority and ALL Power and Rule!
Ps 110:1-2. Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28.
Certainly He did, AFTER Jesus ascended. . .(Philippians 2:8-11)
Jesus (while on earth) had LOWERED Himself to take on the form of a
servant, man.
But Jesus is NOT the Father, NOT HIS OWN FATHER, and Jesus is NOT THE
HOLY GHOST EITHER.
And we call THAT concept, Trinity.
Call it what you will, it is a false doctrine created after 170 AD, 325,
381 AD.
Ignore the Bible all you wish. You are doing nothing more than
parroting your religion's propaganda.
I <snipped> your history of how the label came to be.
No, you snipped the history of how the DOCTRINE came to be developed and
imposed upon God's People by the heresy of the Catholic Church.
Why snip it? because you want to deny it?
Because you pretend that the doctrine (the gathered-together-teaching)
does not exist in the Bible in its parts, and there was nothing new
there. Nothing more.
-+-
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "Absolute Ruler."
There is One God.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28,
[KJV] Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast
said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
[KJV] I Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of
whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
are all things, and we by him.
[KJV] I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "God" is a "Kind of Being"
Jesus said, "God is a Spirit." John 4:24 (KJV, ASV, YLT and Darby)
No, that is NOT any "scriptural definition."
Do you deny the very Word of Jesus?
John 4:24
Jesus did NOT say that "God is a kind of being."
Jesus said (IN THAT VERSE) that God IS SPIRIT.
He did NOT define the word "God" there.
He said what God is composed of.
YOUR FALSE CLAIM that He said "God is a kind of being" just won't fly.
God
"THE supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and
omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship
in monotheistic religions.
Your definition attempts to mix two definitions into a single meaning,
and the Father and His Son into a single being...
"My" definition is the dictionary definition, put together by
LINGUISTS whose job is to know the meanings of words.
And the Father and His Son and the Holy Ghost ARE ONE "single being;"
they are ONE GOD, according to the Bible.>
And all of the translations other than the outdated ones you chose to
use say "God IS Spirit,"
Fine: "God is Spirit" is still describing the Kind of Being God IS,
rather than His Title of Authority.
And what "title of authority" would that be?
Are you NOW GOING TO CHANGE YOUR TUNE and pretend that "God" is a
"title of authority" instead of a "kind of thing?"
God is God. PERIOD.
and in the Greek it means literally that God
IS COMPOSED OF Spirit, not that He is one of many spirits.
Which is still describing the Kind of Being God IS.
But does NOT define the word, "GOD" to be "a kind of being."
My friend is composed of flesh, bone, and blood.
Does that mean that "George" MEANS "flesh, bone and blood?"
No it does not.
Because DUCKS are flesh, bone, and blood too.
George is not a duck.
Who said "one of many spirits"
"A" spirit implies that there might be many more.
However, now that YOU have brought up that question: Did God create
other spirits?
Yep.
If God created other spirits, is He then One Spirit of many spirits?
But that is NOT what that passage says. God created men. Jesus was a
man. Does that mean that God is a man? Same faulty logic.
God the Father is a Spirit Being, The Spirit of God IS God
The Son is the same Kind of Being of His Father.
The Father is Eternal Spirit, therefore the Son is Eternal Spirit.
The Father is [Kind of Being] God,
Therefore the Son is [Kind of Being] God.
The Son is God [Title of Authority] because His father gave Him ALL
Authority and ALL Power and sat Him on His Throne and told Him to Rule.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18 and 1 Cor 15:24-28
Jesus is God just as I am man.
Why are you man? Are you man because you were begotten of a man?
Is Jesus the same Nature and Essence of the Being who Fathered Him?
Yep, and He is also the same Nature and Essence of the being who
mothered him, having made himself lower than the angels, having taken
on the form of a servant.
Man is not "a title of authority," but
is a noun describing WHAT I am. God is not "a title of authority,"
but is a noun discribing WHAT Jesus is.
"WHAT" Jesus is, IS the KIND of Being He is, and THAT is the same kind
of Being His Father IS, and That is "God is Spirit."
AND the same KIND of being as His mother. . .or are you now going to
claim that Jesus was not a man as well as being God?
Of course "God" is a Title of Authority! Do you deny the very Word of
God? Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28,
No, I deny your MISREPRESENTATION of the Word of God.
Ps 110:1-2
The LORD said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."
2 The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies
NKJV
Yep, God HAS authority. NOPE, "God" does NOT DEFINE HIMSELF AS A
TITLE OF ANYTHING here.
Matt 28:18
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been
given to Me in heaven and on earth.
NKJV
Yep, Jesus HAS authority. NOPE, "Jesus" DOES NOT DEFINE HIMSELF AS A
TITLE OF ANYTHING here.
1 Cor 15:24-28
24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father,
when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He
must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last
enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things
under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it
is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now
when all things are made sub
NKJV
KJV] Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and
the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The
Prince of Peace.
Yep.
"His name shall be called, "the mighty God"...
His Name is His Title, (Just as we call Presidents "Mr. President,) not
a term defining His being.
Except that all of the linguists disagree with your theory. All of
the dictionaries disagree with you. You just seem to think you are
"special" that you may just make up your own daffynitions of words,
huh?
So what do YOU think Jesus was?
What?
Did you read my post?
NO? Then let me explain again!
I believe EVERY Word of God given to describe and reveal Him Self, His
Spirit and Son to His People.
So then you DO beleive He is God, and that He is NOT His own Father?
So actually, what your question is, is "What and Who does the Word of
God say Jesus is?"
No, my question is "So what do YOU think Jesus was?"
I KNOW what the Bible says. It is YOUR WIERD INTERPRETATION I do not
fully understand.
Allow me to explain:
ONE GOD
* Matthew 4:10: "Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is
written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."'"
And "worship" in that passage is the Greek word, "Proskuneo" and Jesus
is WORSHIPPED MANY TIMES (SAME WORD) IN THE BIBLE.
So are you ADMITTING then that Jesus IS God?
<snipped the rest>
I have read all of these verses multiple times and I know what they
mean.
I am asking what YOU conclude from them, not what they say. I KNOW
what they say. It is YOUR wierd conclusion I do not know.
What do YOU think the relationship betwen the Father (God) and Jesus
(God) and the Holy Ghost (God) is?
Are you a modalist?
A polytheist?
What?
In the Name of Jesus
Glenn
In the Name of Jesus,
Checker
.
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| User: "Glenn" |
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| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
21 Jul 2007 02:28:58 PM |
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wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:24:50 -0700, Glenn <gamcclary@spiritone.com>
wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:13:00 -0700, Glenn <gamcclary@spiritone.com>
wrote:
"Heresy" is "other doctrine."
Heresy,
"Any opinions or doctrines at variance with the official or orthodox
position"
"A belief that rejects the orthodox tenets of a religion"
NOT just some doctrine not approved by the currently in power religious
establishment, but "other doctrine" NOT taught by Christ to His
Disciples, NOT taught by the Apostles to the First Century Church, and
NOT recorded in the pages of the New Testament.
Therefore, some doctrine that came into being 170, 325, 381 years AFTER
Christ can NOT be doctrine taught BY Christ, and MUST BE OTHER DOCTRINE
-- ergo, Heresy!
Your definition is too narrow, but your conclusion is correct to this
point.
My definition is Scriptural, while you offer the definition used by the
Pope to murder those who resisted the Catholic Heresy for almost 1400 years!
Try again. . .I quoted a DICTIONARY, put together by LINGUISTS. YOUR
definition came only from YOUR MIND.
Far out! So you quoted a dictionary created by trinitarian linguists to
support that false doctrine!
I quoted the Word of God, which you and the trinitarian linguists seek
to pervert!
The Doctrine of the immaculate conception is Heresy.
The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is Heresy.
The 'doctrine of the rapture' is Heresy.
The doctrine of a millennial reign of Christ on this earth is Heresy.
The doctrine of a triune god is heresy!
Not true.
You are wrong.
Keep chanting your mantra, you might believe it someday. . .
Keep chanting your Roman Catholic Heresy.
The concept is Biblical and was believed by the Apostles.
This is a lie, just like the Lie that Peter was the first Pope of the
Roman Catholic Church. Nothing written by the Apostles suggests that
Jesus taught them the lie of a triune god.
You choose to ignore the truth. It is easy to call the truth a lie,
but you cannot support your position from scripture.
I did support "my doctrine" from Scripture, and you reject scriptural
doctrine because you choose the heresy of the pagan Roman Catholic Heresy.
The Bible teaches that The Father is God
Definition of the TERM "God" is "kind of Being.'
Jesus said, God is a Spirit." KJV John 4:24.
Most translations show that it should be translated "God IS spirit."
That is what God is composed of. Not "a kind of being."
The Greek indicates that the term "is" has been inserted as implied.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm
From the Dictionary:
GOD
"The supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and
omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship
in monotheistic religions"
No "kind of being" in any dictionary I could find.
YOUR "daffynition" is wrong.
Oh, and you think defining God as "Type, triune" as formulated by the
pagan Catholic Church is correct?
Jesus is God (John 1:1, Col 2:9, etc etc etc)
Definition of the TERM "God" is "Absolute or Supreme Ruler."
God the Father Gave His Son ALL Authority and ALL Power and Rule!
Ps 110:1-2. Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28.
The Holy Ghost is God (Acts 5:3-5)
Correct: the Spirit of God IS God, not a 'persona' of a multiple
personality being!
Definition of the TERM "God" is "Kind of Being.
Jesus said, "God is a Spirit" KJV John 4:24
He said "God IS spirit." He did NOT SAY "God is a kind of being."
Why falsify my statement?
So you can grandstand against your own straw man?
You CANNOT use the WORD "GOD" to DEFINE the WORD "GOD."
Oh? But we can use His Word to define the words He gave us to describe
Himself, His Son and His Spirit.
In fact, Scripture uses the TERM "God" _both_ to describe a kind of
being AND as a title of Authority.
_IN FACT_ trinitarians use the TERM "God" to mean 'Kind of Being' when
they define God as 'Being Type, Triune.'
THEN, trinitarians use "God," [type Triune] to say there is ONE God
[Type, Supreme Ruler] of the Universe.
It is VERY CLEAR that you want to make up your own daffynition.
God the Father and the Spirit of God IS God.
And there is ONLY ONE GOD (Isaiah 43:10)
Definition of the TERM "God" is "Absolute or Supreme Ruler."
God the Father Gave His Son ALL Authority and ALL Power and Rule!
Ps 110:1-2. Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28.
Certainly He did, AFTER Jesus ascended. . .
No, NOT "after." You have no scripture to support the Idea that Jesus
was made Ruler AFTER He ascended.
(Philippians 2:8-11)
Jesus (while on earth) had LOWERED Himself
Lowered Himself from What Position of Authority? Ps 110:1-2.
to take on the form of a servant, man.
Why do you ignore Ps 110:1-2?
But Jesus is NOT the Father, NOT HIS OWN FATHER, and Jesus is NOT THE
HOLY GHOST EITHER.
Exactly, and the Father is not a "persona' of a multiple personality being.
Exactly, and the Son of God is not a "persona' of a multiple personality
being.
Exactly, and the Spirit of God is not a "persona' of a multiple
personality being.
And we call THAT concept, Trinity.
Call it what you will, it is a false doctrine created after 170 AD, 325,
381 AD.
Ignore the Bible all you wish. You are doing nothing more than
parroting your religion's propaganda.
My religion is Christianity as taught by Jesus to His Apostles and by
them to the First Century Church; and there is no 'triune god' in what
Jesus taught His Apostles, or what the Apostles taught the First Century
Church, OR recorded in the pages of the New Testament
I <snipped> your history of how the label came to be.
No, you snipped the history of how the DOCTRINE came to be developed and
imposed upon God's People by the heresy of the Catholic Church.
Why snip it? because you want to deny it?
Because you pretend that the doctrine (the gathered-together-teaching)
The "the gathered-together-teaching" that God is a triune being does not
exist in the Bible -- it is a false interpretation of God's Word.
does not exist in the Bible in its parts, and there was nothing new
there. Nothing more.
repost what you can not stand to look at:
The growth of the doctrine of a triune God, is briefly but plainly, set
forth in the following facts:
A.D. 29 Jesus said, "The Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29).
A.D. 57 Paul said, "To us there is but one God" (1 Cor. 8:6).
A.D. 96 Clement said, "Christ was sent by God".
A.D. 120 "Apostles' Creed": "I believe in God the Father".
A.D. 150 Justin Martyr, introduces Greek Philosophy.
A.D. 170 The word "Trias", appears first in Christian literature.
A.D. 200. "Trinitas" is first introduced by Tertullian.
A.D. 280 Origen, opposes prayers to Christ.
A.D. 260 Sabellius: "Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three names for the
same God".
A.D. 300 Trinitarian prayers unknown in the Church.
A.D. 325 "Nicene Creed" afflrms Christ to be "Very God of Very God".
A.D. 370 Doxology composed.
A.D. 381. Council of Constantinople invents "Three persons in One God".
A.D. 388 Emperor Theodosius threatens punishment to all who won't
worship the Trinity.
-+-
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "Absolute Ruler."
There is One God.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28,
[KJV] Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast
said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
[KJV] I Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of
whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
are all things, and we by him.
[KJV] I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Scriptural Definition of the TERM "God" is "God" is a "Kind of Being"
Jesus said, "God is a Spirit." John 4:24 (KJV, ASV, YLT and Darby)
No, that is NOT any "scriptural definition."
Do you deny the very Word of Jesus?
John 4:24
Jesus did NOT say that "God is a kind of being."
Do you falsify my words so you can grandstand against your own lie?
Jesus said (IN THAT VERSE) that God IS SPIRIT.
Actually, if you want to be literally accurate, the word "is" is
implied, and not literally in the original text.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm
He did NOT define the word "God" there.
He said what God is composed of.
What a delicate lie!
You say "God is composed of Spirit"? Yet you deny that "composed of
Spirit" does not say 'what kind of Being God is"?
Since Jesus said "God IS Spirit", then He is defining the TERM "God" (as
He uses it) to mean "kind of Being"; and He just described the "Kind of
Being God IS as "Spirit."
YOUR FALSE CLAIM that He said "God is a kind of being" just won't fly.
Do you falsify my words so you can grandstand against your own straw man?
God
"THE supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and
omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship
in monotheistic religions.
Your definition attempts to mix two definitions into a single meaning,
and the Father and His Son into a single being...
"My" definition is the dictionary definition, put together by
LINGUISTS whose job is to know the meanings of words.
A dictionary crafted to support the false doctrine of a triune god? How
nice!
Just as "nice" as the falsifications and insertions wrought into early
translations by Roman Catholic trinitarian translators to support the
false doctrines and heresies brought upon Christianity by the pope of Rome.
And the Father and His Son and the Holy Ghost ARE ONE "single being;"
they are ONE GOD, according to the Bible.>
That there is one God is correct: what is Heresy is the doctrine of a
triune god which states that the Father and His son are persona of a
multiple personality being.
And all of the translations other than the outdated ones you chose to
use say "God IS Spirit,"
Fine: "God is Spirit" is still describing the Kind of Being God IS,
rather than His Title of Authority.
And what "title of authority" would that be?
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28.
Are you NOW GOING TO CHANGE YOUR TUNE and pretend that "God" is a
"title of authority" instead of a "kind of thing?"
Do you falsify my words so you can pretend you have defeated your own lie?
God is God. PERIOD.
Certainly!
God [Title of Authority] is Absolute Ruler of the Universe He created.
God [kind of being] is Eternal, Omnipotent Spirit Being.
and in the Greek it means literally that God
IS COMPOSED OF Spirit, not that He is one of many spirits.
Which is still describing the Kind of Being God IS.
But does NOT define the word, "GOD" to be "a kind of being."
"Composed of Spirit" *IS* a definition and/or description of a KIND of
being.
"God" (the Being) is an Eternal, Omnipotent Spirit Being.
My friend is composed of flesh, bone, and blood.
Does that mean that "George" MEANS "flesh, bone and blood?"
No it does not.
Trick Logic?
If your friend George is "composed of flesh, bone, and blood," then
George is "being Type, flesh, bone, and blood," and "George is the
personal name of a single being of type flesh, bone, and blood.
Because DUCKS are flesh, bone, and blood too.
George is not a duck.
I don't know that "George is not a duck": but by your own words, I do
know that George and a Duck are BOTH "being type, flesh, bone, and blood."
Who said "one of many spirits"
"A" spirit implies that there might be many more.
There are: God [type Eternal Spirit Being] created many Spirit beings.
However, now that YOU have brought up that question: Did God create
other spirits?
Yep.
If God created other spirits, is He then One Spirit of many spirits?
But that is NOT what that passage says.
Oh, I thought we were just discussing your false accusation?
God *IS* "A Spirit" of many spirits: God the Father is an Self Existent
Eternal Spirit among all the created Spirits which He Created!
God created men. Jesus was a
man. Does that mean that God is a man? Same faulty logic.
Faulty Logic: IN your faulty sillygism you used the trinitarian
definition of God {type triune] to confuse Jesus with God the Father
and/or the Creator of Adam.
It is Your own faulty Logic:
God Created Adam, and All men are born of Adam. Jesus is born of Mary,
who was born of Adam, therefore the body/flesh of Jesus is a "Son of
Man." Jesu is the only begotten of God the Father, therefore Jesus is
the Same Kind of Being of His Father, Spirit.
God the Father is a Spirit Being, The Spirit of God IS God
The Son is the same Kind of Being of His Father.
The Father is Eternal Spirit, therefore the Son is Eternal Spirit.
The Father is [Kind of Being] God,
Therefore the Son is [Kind of Being] God.
The Son is God [Title of Authority] because His father gave Him ALL
Authority and ALL Power and sat Him on His Throne and told Him to Rule.
Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18 and 1 Cor 15:24-28
Jesus is God just as I am man.
Why are you man? Are you man because you were begotten of a man?
Is Jesus the same Nature and Essence of the Being who Fathered Him?
Yep, and He is also the same Nature and Essence of the being who
mothered him, having made himself lower than the angels, having taken
on the form of a servant.
Fine: we can agree that Jesus is a being of flesh - "fully human" and
therefore has a Spirit/Soul.
Fine: we can now agree that Jesus is a Spirit Being of the same Type of
His Father -- and therefor the Spirit/Soul of the Human Jesus is eternal
Spirit Born/conceived/begotten of His Father.
Fine: We have just agreed that the Man Jesus was/is "Duel Nature"; being
Body of Flesh and Spirit/Soul of Eternal Spirit Being.
Man is not "a title of authority," but
is a noun describing WHAT I am. God is not "a title of authority,"
but is a noun discribing WHAT Jesus is.
"WHAT" Jesus is, IS the KIND of Being He is, and THAT is the same kind
of Being His Father IS, and That is "God is Spirit."
AND the same KIND of being as His mother. . .or are you now going to
claim that Jesus was not a man as well as being God?
see above.
Of course "God" is a Title of Authority! Do you deny the very Word of
God? Ps 110:1-2, Mat 28:18, 1 Cor 15:24-28,
No, I deny your MISREPRESENTATION of the Word of God.
I deny the trinitarian MISREPRESENTATION of the Word of God.
Ps 110:1-2
The LORD said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."
2 The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies
NKJV
Yep, God HAS authority.
If "God" _has_ authority, the "God" is the Title for the the Being which
has that Authority.
NOPE, "God" does NOT DEFINE HIMSELF AS A
TITLE OF ANYTHING here.
Play with words so you can defeat your own lie.
Matt 28:18
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been
given to Me in heaven and on earth.
NKJV
Yep, Jesus HAS authority.
Oh? And from Whom did Jesus receive that Authority?
If Jesus exercises ALL Power and ALL authority, then is ther any with
more authority that he has and exercises?
No.
NOPE, "Jesus" DOES NOT DEFINE HIMSELF AS A
TITLE OF ANYTHING here.
Ah! Defeat your own straw man...
1 Cor 15:24-28
24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father,
when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He
must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last
enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things
under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it
is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now
when all things are made sub
NKJV
KJV] Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and
the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The
Prince of Peace.
Yep.
"His name shall be called, "the mighty God"...
His Name is His Title, (Just as we call Presidents "Mr. President,) not
a term defining His being.
Except that all of the linguists disagree with your theory.
You mean "all the trinitarian linguists", don't you?
All of
the dictionaries disagree with you. You just seem to think you are
"special" that you may just make up your own daffynitions of words,
huh?
So what do YOU think Jesus was?
What?
Did you read my post?
NO? Then let me explain again!
I believe EVERY Word of God given to describe and reveal Him Self, His
Spirit and Son to His People.
So then you DO beleive He is God, and that He is NOT His own Father?
When you say "He is God", are you using the trinitarian definition of
that word?
So actually, what your question is, is "What and Who does the Word of
God say Jesus is?"
No, my question is "So what do YOU think Jesus was?"
I KNOW what the Bible says.
No, you don't know what the Bible says: what you "know" is trinitarian
doctrine 'about' what the Bible says -- and you won't know what the
Bible says until you can comprehend the difference between what it says
and what some false doctrine says it means.
It is YOUR WIERD INTERPRETATION I do not
fully understand.
Allow me to explain:
ONE GOD
* Matthew 4:10: "Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is
written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."'"
And "worship" in that passage is the Greek word, "Proskuneo" and Jesus
is WORSHIPPED MANY TIMES (SAME WORD) IN THE BIBLE.
So are you ADMITTING then that Jesus IS God?
When you say "Jesus is God", are you using the trinitarian definition of
that word?
<snipped the rest>
I have read all of these verses multiple times and I know what they
mean.
No, you believe what the false doctrine of a triune god TELLS you they
mean.
I am asking what YOU conclude from them, not what they say. I KNOW
what they say. It is YOUR wierd conclusion I do not know.
What do YOU think the relationship betwen the Father (God) and Jesus
(God) and the Holy Ghost (God) is?
God the Father is the Father, and Jesus is His Son.
God the Father and the Spirit of God IS God.
Are you a modalist?
No.
A polytheist?
No.
What?
Same as Thomas, Jesus, John the Baptist, Daniel, Isaiah, Moses and Abraham.
In the Name of Jesus
Glenn
--
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
Note, the site at xprt.net will close 1Sept07 and open as
www.thelittlebookopened.org [Key words:] "The Little Book";
Glenn McClary, servitum, gaedhealic, oldwetdog
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Matthew 7:15 |
22 Jul 2007 10:05:16 PM |
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On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 12:28:58 -0700, Glenn <gamcclary@spiritone.com>
wrote:
checker@flapper.com wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:24:50 -0700, Glenn <gamcclary@spiritone.com>
wrote:
checker@flapper.com wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:13:00 -0700, Glenn <gamcclary@spiritone.com>
wrote:
"Heresy" is "other doctrine."
Heresy,
"Any opinions or doctrines at variance with the official or orthodox
position"
"A belief that rejects the orthodox tenets of a religion"
NOT just some doctrine not approved by the currently in power religious
establishment, but "other doctrine" NOT taught by Christ to His
Disciples, NOT taught by the Apostles to the First Century Church, and
NOT recorded in the pages of the New Testament.
Therefore, some doctrine that came into being 170, 325, 381 years AFTER
Christ can NOT be doctrine taught BY Christ, and MUST BE OTHER DOCTRINE
-- ergo, Heresy!
Your definition is too narrow, but your conclusion is correct to this
point.
My definition is Scriptural, while you offer the definition used by the
Pope to murder those who resisted the Catholic Heresy for almost 1400 years!
Try again. . .I quoted a DICTIONARY, put together by LINGUISTS. YOUR
definition came only from YOUR MIND.
Far out! So you quoted a dictionary created by trinitarian linguists to
support that false doctrine!
I quoted the Word of God, which you and the trinitarian linguists seek
to pervert!
You quoted the Word of God which did NOT DEFINE the word, heresy.
YOU are the one trying to PERVERT the Word of God, claiming it is
saying something it did not say.
And YOU are a hack who seems to think that he knows more than all of
the translators, all of the linguists, and everyone else who knows
more than he does! LOL!
The Doctrine of the immaculate conception is Heresy.
The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is Heresy.
The 'doctrine of the rapture' is Heresy.
The doctrine of a millennial reign of Christ on this earth is Heresy.
The doctrine of a triune god is heresy!
Not true.
You are wrong.
Keep chanting your mantra, you might believe it someday. . .
Keep chanting your Roman Catholic Heresy.
I am not roman catholic, nor does the Biblical concept of the Father
being God, Jesus being God, and the Holy Ghost being God, and the
THREE BEING ONE GOD come from the rcc.
The concept is Biblical and was believed by the Apostles.
This is a lie, just like the Lie that Peter was the first Pope of the
Roman Catholic Church. Nothing written by the Apostles suggests that
Jesus taught them the lie of a triune god.
You choose to ignore the truth. It is easy to call the truth a lie,
but you cannot support your position from scripture.
I did support "my doctrine" from Scripture, and you reject scriptural
doctrine because you choose the heresy of the pagan Roman Catholic Heresy.
SHOW US FROM SCRIPTURE that the Father is not God (the divine
CREATOR).
SHOW US FROM SCRIPTURE | | | | | | |
